LIVE: "Will God Esteem Thy Riches?" (JOB 36), Part 4/4

Elihu’s speeches can sound like worship, but they can also feel like a sermon aimed at an open wound. We sat with that tension and argued it out: does Elihu actually accuse Job, or is he doing something “better” than the three friends by framing suffering as correction instead of condemnation? We camped in Job 35:16 and the surrounding logic, because one verse can be both accurate and weaponized, and that difference matters when you’re trying to comfort someone in real pain.

From there, we zoomed out to what the Book of Job teaches about the way we speak. We talked about how easy it is to hide judgment inside general statements about prosperity, obedience, and God’s greatness, and why “right theology” is not the same as a right heart. Several of us connected Job’s miserable silence and boils with Jesus’ warnings about religious words that sound beautiful while hearts stay far away, and we asked a hard question: are we tending wounds, or just talking?

We also explored the bigger backdrop that makes Job so staggering. Scripture hints that God’s wisdom is displayed beyond earth, that angelic beings watch and learn, and that faith under suffering may be teaching more than we realize. That reframes endurance, humility, and repentance as public realities in a spiritual sense, even when life feels private and unfair.

If you’ve ever tried to help a hurting friend and worried you might say the wrong thing, this conversation is for you. Subscribe, share, and leave a review, then tell us: when does “truth” stop being helpful and start becoming harm?

Transcript

Did Elihu Accuse Job?

SPEAKER_00 0:00

He's slick. He can get the touchdown and and get his own stats in a sense. He's not really looking to build the team up. But in a sense, he is. So that's kind of why he's slick, because his yards are still gonna count for the team. You know what I mean? So I feel like Ellie is somewhat kind of motivating the rest of the team. Like, you know, let's let's go for the gusto this year instead of just booming for the for the ring, you know. And that can kind of be wrong, because if the coach didn't tell us what to do, we're not gonna we're only gonna listen to the coach, and the coach is gone. You can't go above the God of gov above God. So that's right. My little six cents, yeah. Excellent.

SPEAKER_04 0:37

Last word.

SPEAKER_07 0:39

Last words is um Elihu does accuse Job in verse 16 of 35. He says, So Job opens his mouth emptily. He multiplies his words without knowledge, and God agrees with Elihu.

SPEAKER_04 0:58

Now that's the second verse of 38. Am I missing something, or did you not tell me earlier that he didn't accuse Job of anything?

SPEAKER_07 1:06

Yeah, but the it was the accusation the accusation was true.

SPEAKER_04 1:10

Yeah. No, but didn't you tell, but you said earlier that he that Elihu did not accuse Job of anything.

SPEAKER_07 1:16

Well, he did. I know he did. But what I'm saying is, but it's true. Because God agrees with Elihu. Okay. All right. He does. And it well, I want it, I just want to read it real quick.

SPEAKER_04 1:33

No, no, no, no, no. You don't you don't you don't you don't have man? That's the argument I was making to you. Now you're turning around and throwing it back to me saying he didn't.

SPEAKER_07 1:43

What I'm saying is if he I don't he he said so Job opens his mouth emptily, he multiplies words without knowledge. I agree. I agreed that he did, but it was true.

SPEAKER_04 1:57

But do but do you remember telling me that he didn't accuse Job of anything?

SPEAKER_07 2:03

If I did, I misspoke. My apologies. I do agree with I do agree with verse 16.

SPEAKER_04 2:08

All right, then we're good. We're good then. I I yeah didn't that's that's I we're good on that.

SPEAKER_07 2:14

And I also agree God does God agrees with him, with Elihu.

SPEAKER_04 2:20

Okay, you can say whatever you you can say that all you want to, but the fact of the matter is he he he did accuse uh Job. And that's the argument I was making. Now, if you're if you're gonna add to if you're gonna add to the you know God agreeing with him, though that's something we'll have to we'll have to figure out when we get to the to the when God speaks. And then Job agrees.

SPEAKER_07 2:41

No, but you were saying you but you were saying he didn't accuse him of anything. No, I mean that's that's that's no, I if I if I'm that's what that's what you and me were arguing about to me like an accusatory, I was thinking in the sense of this, Jonathan. I was thinking in the sense of his free three friends, they to me were the accusers. They spoke and and made Job into something that was not true about him at all. They completely and utterly misapplied everything, in my opinion, to Job. So to Lily who I don't think so.

SPEAKER_04 3:20

Because that's fine. I mean, like I said, the issue was, and we we we covered it enough. I don't want to beat the dead horse anymore. But what we said, what what what he said was that Job his situation, his affliction, unlike the way Job's friends presented it, is not condemnatory in nature, but corrective, implying that Job was guilty of something, but that the friends were wrong in that they were saying that God was condemning Job, and Elihu is saying, no, God is using your affliction to correct you. And that's what I've been saying.

Correction Or Condemnation Through Suffering

SPEAKER_07 4:00

I don't see that he's using it to correct him. Okay, I just think that he spoke without knowledge, and he's bringing out the defense against God, and that's the whole defense, everything in there.

SPEAKER_04 4:11

All right, all right, we'll leave it, we'll leave it here. We can we can pick this up tomorrow.

SPEAKER_07 4:16

This is really good though. Like I've learned so much. I'm not even this this is whole, and that's that could be my last words. I have in throughout the whole book of Job, I've never gone back and read four chapters and studied 32 through 37, so much to get and to get an understanding. I have read this probably four times, and it it I have learned so much about the wisdom of God. I have learned so much through this whole thing, and I'm really thankful for it. And sometimes what's really awesome about studies like this is if you tell somebody like me, then the way in which that I learn, I take it and I run. And I'm I want to get I it it makes me dive into the word of God like nothing ever before. And I love it. I love going into the word of God. And if this has to happen in order for me to do it, then glory to God, because I've learned so much from it.

When Praise Becomes A Weapon

SPEAKER_04 5:19

So which we get to the next book. Sister Lisa, go ahead.

SPEAKER_02 5:28

Well, I sort of feel like at this juncture we're sort of um looking at Job as as guilty.

SPEAKER_04 5:37

And I'm not, but he's not.

SPEAKER_02 5:40

Well, I'm not, and I'm not either at all. Okay, so but what I'm thinking is you know, earlier on we were giving Job, we we were we we were all in agreement that God wants us to be authentic in what we're feeling because he is an Abba. We you know, it was encouraging. Hey, never back down when accusers come at you and you know you haven't you're you're innocent. I mean, Job is saying all along, my God will vindicate me.

unknown 6:15

Right.

SPEAKER_02 6:15

Job is in a very unique situation because he's not hearing from God and he's used to that. Now we've got this guy coming in, and he's very I don't even know, like slick is not even the right word. He's he's almost he's using God and the glorification of God, and I and I'm I'm imagining God witnessing all of it as though God is saying to himself, look at this weasel, singing all my praises and just busting down this innocent man. You know, honestly, this is my feeling that God is looking at Elihu going, you are so you are clueless. You speak. What did Jesus say to the Pharisees? You, you know, you've got beautiful words, your hearts are far from it. There is no indication that Elihu is trying to be helpful to this man. He says it, but all he's doing is God is great. He would never basically saying, Job, you wouldn't be in this pickle if you hadn't sinned, if you hadn't done it, you should have kept your mouth closed. And it you know, I think this is just the warning that we're I mean, I mean, they just if Elihu was doing that, wouldn't he wouldn't God have corrected him? Maybe, but maybe the more important lesson here is to he's gonna swoop in and save his his I think I think I think I think that when the guy broke in, it wasn't because Elihu was on a roll.

SPEAKER_04 7:58

I think God was like, I think God was like, let me shut this guy up. This is getting out this is getting out of control.

SPEAKER_02 8:02

Absolutely. It's almost like he was he was over the top.

SPEAKER_04 8:05

He was like, I know you don't, I know you don't. I know I know you don't, but yeah, but go ahead, Lisa, go ahead.

SPEAKER_02 8:10

Well, I just I feel like I don't know how he thought that was going to be helpful. Job knows all those things. If I'm sitting there in boils and in pain, and you come to me and you're saying, Oh, God is good, you know, don't you know he makes the rain to come down and all that? But he does the wicked, he puts boils on the wicked, and here I am sitting in boils. How is that making me feel good?

SPEAKER_00 8:32

How is the heart?

SPEAKER_02 8:34

It's the heart. God always wants the heart.

SPEAKER_04 8:40

He to me, because I I know that when we all read that we all have our imagery. And that's the beauty of reading this, reading the scriptures, because we all have different imagery. And it is it is painfully obvious that there's a big difference between my imagery and maid. Big difference. Now, you know, I I see uh you know, a guy like you like like what you're describing, Lisa, and and and and I see um him speaking like Joel Oldstein. You know, sort of like very it's very soft, it's very truth is about God, but nothing really that builds you up in any kind of way. I don't I don't know. It it's just he he but I think uh you know I I believe and this is my personal opinion, I believe that God was fed up. And that's why he broke in when he did. And I don't think it's I don't think that he was left there going like, well, Elliot was on a roll, because I could ask a different question and say, well, why didn't he just let Elihu continue the conversation? Why did he just let Elihu finish? Because Elihu is not God. Well that that that's uh I understand what I'm saying. But what I'm what I'm saying is I'm I'm making the same assessment you are, it's that differently is that you are using the fact that that God broke in and you keep using this bridge language, and I understand it because I've read it many times, many people bring that up, and I get it. There's a lot of good people that that that say that. And I and we and it is a bridge because uh because it is a bridge. He's the last guy that spoke. Whoever speaks last is gonna be that bridge, whether it was Elihu or one of the other guys or somebody else. Somebody's last, so somebody's gonna be the bridge uh commentator on Joel's situation. So that's inevitable. So using that for an argument to me is um it's not an argument at all. But I do understand that people do make an argument out of that. I get that. I get that. Sister Mariah, go ahead.

SPEAKER_05 10:44

Yeah, um, I think earlier you said something to the fact that it's not apparent that Joe uh Job Elihu is directly speaking to Job in this chapter, um, because he doesn't, as he before, you know, um acknowledge the fact. But uh I think when I'm looking here, it if I'm listening, I mean reading, sorry, from 16 into one, and it says, therefore, Job, Job, therefore, does Job open his mouth in vain and multiply his words without knowledge? Elihu also proceeded and said, So he's continuing his him from talking to Job, and obviously we know this, um, but referring these things to him. And I think that he's so crafty that when he gets down here and he's saying, like, um they where is it? Um then let me just say here, then he and nine show is show them their work and their transgression. He's using this general term as to not say that he's directly saying these things against Job. And um, but it is, you know, it's you're saying it without saying it. And I think that he's also implying the same thing that his other three friends were implying about the prosperity and him not being prosperous because of his sin and his wickedness, because he goes on to say, if they obey and serve him, they shall spend their days in prosperity and their years in pleasure, but if not, they shall perish by the sword and they shall die without knowledge. Well, we already know that he's continuously said that he has, as in 16, multiplied his words without knowledge. So he's telling him, look, if you want to be prosperous and you want to live your days out in pleasure, then um you should obey God and uh um and not, as he said said earlier, um shows them their work with their transgressions they have exceeded. So he's saying, you are in sin, and if you shall obey, hear my words of wisdom, you will be prosperous. But if you're not right now, because you have not obeyed, and therefore you're um ignorant, and you will die in that ignorance if you if you don't heed to these words that I'm saying. So I just found that interesting.

SPEAKER_04 13:21

Um it's a good word word, and uh certainly one that I agree with. I didn't hide that at all. I agree with all of it. Uh brother Zach, your last word, brother.

SPEAKER_03 13:35

Yeah, what a great study. And I I think that's what brought me in in like December, January, because you guys started this in like February into it. Yeah, and I think one thing that's reminded me of is we talked about it when I first got in here. You know, this is setting the stage for God to talk. Elohou and these arguments are all setting this exciting stage that we get it that we get a walk through in the next uh month uh of what God says to them. But when you go back and we see all these arguments taking place, uh we talked about it. It is so exhausting. Over and over again, we see these arguments, and as a reader, you're like, gee, many Christmas, the saints, he's saying the same thing. Here we go. And then now Elihu, he says it in a different way, more eloquent, uh, know it all, Joel Oysteen type of guy. Um, and um and so that's what happens. This, if you look back and step back, God is so funny and so great. Uh, he's letting us do what we do, exhaust ourselves before he can finally speak, right? So he's got this less last guy that's been sitting in the dark, Mr. Know It All, young brat, bold, and he finally sets the stage where we know he doesn't even say a word to this guy in the end. But you know, that's that's the thing. It's just uh it's just so so for us today. But my second part is what helped me uh understand this from a great perspective, somebody gave me, is that throughout the Bible, it doesn't really say this, you know, in Job, but uh, you know, directly, you know, but scripture as a whole suggests that that God's not just teaching us, he's teaching angelic beings this. And so at the beginning of this chapter, we see Job, Satan, or you know, we see Satan, angels, God. And so in the grand mix of things, God's just not teaching us a lesson. Yes, this book is for us today, but he's also teaching angelic beings, he's teaching Satan a lesson. He taught him, he teaches him a major lesson, like, man, you think you know, all right. So he teaches him a lesson here. So these lessons aren't just for us, and it says in the Bible that when we go to heaven, we're gonna judge angels, you know. And so it says in Ephesians, God's wisdom made known through the church of rulers and authorities in heavenly places. And then in Peter chapter one, angels long to look into the things of salvation. And what's kind of crazy is, guys, is that you know, uh amongst our ups and downs, we're being observed, you know, and that's kind of crazy to think about it. And God is teaching these angelic beings many things, he's teaching them grace shown to sinners, he's teaching these angels faith under suffering, uh, he's teaching them loyalty without visible reward, okay? Uh he's teaching them repentance after failure. You know, these are different beings in us, you know. Uh they don't have to go through the sin of stuff. We intrigue these beings and we're gonna judge them. And he also, we also uh teaching these angels endurance through pain, you know. You know, they don't know these things, things, you know. So so Job may not have known, but his faithfulness and our faithfulness is being witnessed beyond this earth. Is that not just mind-blowing to think about that?

SPEAKER_04 16:45

Well, it really is, it really is.

SPEAKER_03 16:47

That's kind of all I got, you know. We gotta we gotta see this is setting the stage for God to talk, and it's just so exciting. And I'm just so grateful for the for the deep study that you're doing in this and the time, uh, because we're all getting kind of frustrated here, just like the just like they were, and here we go. You know, we're gonna learn that, we're gonna learn why. And so just just awesome. And I I just once again, I just see the the hunger for the Bible in this in this panel and not you know what I see in my church where it's kind of out of obligation. So appreciate what you guys do and everybody's comments.

Compassion Before Theology In Pain

SPEAKER_04 17:17

Well, God bless you, brother. Thank you for those good words. Uh Sister Hannah, your last words. You're the you're the last one with the last word.

SPEAKER_01 17:25

Oh my goodness, I'm so thankful to be here. Happy that I could get back on. I've been following along on YouTube, um, so I was able to catch up and it feels good jumping back in. Um okay, so this book has me just sad. Like I'm mourning, I'm mourning right there with Job, and I know this already happened, and he's no longer in that place of suffering and being misunderstood, but I'm feeling sad, and I want to start with the words of our Lord Jesus in Matthew 23. Let me find it real quick. And I'm gonna read some verses, I'm kind of gonna get read them backwards, so I'll start with verse 15.

SPEAKER_04 18:15

Matthew, Matthew 23.

SPEAKER_01 18:17

Matthew 23, verse 15. Okay, what sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees, hypocrites, for you cross land and sea to make one convert, and then you turn that person into twice the child of hell you yourselves are. Let me go to verse 13. What sorrow awaits you? Wait, yeah. Well, again, what sorrow waits you, teachers of religious law and Pharisees, hypocrites, for you shut the door of the kingdom of heaven in people's faces. You won't go in yourselves, and you don't let others enter either. Verse 12. Where is it at? But those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted. And what I gotta say with that is may the Lord help me bring zero theology to a situation if it requires me to not bring compassion. Um, you know, they have the freedom to be right there in the presence and and listen to each other speak and take turns and be all this like correct order of things of doing things. Um, and I hope that we just don't read about it. But are they treating to his wounds? Are they washing his feet? Are they helping him eat? I know he doesn't have appetite, right? But just I'm just imagining. Um, so that's where I'm at. Like, I I would want to be in a position where I have zero theology to bring, yet I bring the hands and feet of God. Like, let me tend to you. Um, and then I also found, like, I was remembering through this whole book, honestly. Um I went to Isaiah 29. Let me find that one real quick. Isaiah 29, verse 13. It says, and so the Lord says, These people say they're mine, they honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, and their worship of me is nothing but man-made rules learned by rote. Okay, I wasn't too familiar with that translation, but I'm gonna go ahead and double down, triple down, and tell you guys that Eluhu is the worst one yet, in my opinion. Okay, and so I was looking at two translations here, and there is no doubt to me that this guy is in it for the self-boasting of it. Like it says, Where's it uh? Okay, this translation, I think it's NLT, but the way it says it, there's no doubt for me. It says he was angry because Job refused to admit that he had sinned and that God was right in punishing him. So yeah, he's trying to hide behind comfort, like like, and he could even have humility in that be like, is there any way, Job? And you know, I know it's not the modern age there, but I like is there any way, Job, that this is some sort of correction? Is there any way like while he's washing his feet? There's a lot of coulda, shoulda, woulda, and I don't like to live in that world, but I I just want to say that Elihu reminds me of something I read today in Proverbs 30, where it's talking about these four things, um, they cannot stop moving forward. The lion who is mighty. Oh, I don't have Proverbs 30 handy. The lion who is mighty, he won't back away for anyone. The greyhound or slash the rooster, we don't really know what animal. That guy is, he's just skinny at the waist, but he won't stop the male goat and a king whose troops are with him. So, it doesn't say so, right? But it's like, so I'm talking to Elohu. So just go ahead and put your hand over your mouth, Elohou, because you are just exalting yourself with all this knowledge. And praise God, because the book of Job is full of so many verses where it's like, that's that's my God. Yes, everything they're saying is correct, but golly, are y'all ugly people because you have a suffering man?

SPEAKER_04 22:34

Amen.

SPEAKER_01 22:35

That's all I got.

SPEAKER_04 22:36

Thank you, sister. Appreciate those kind words. Kind words. All right. Is it is is the choir there or no?

SPEAKER_05 22:45

No, they're not.

SPEAKER_04 22:47

All right. That's right. We're we're always waiting for them whenever they can. But um, sister Meg, you want to close it out in prayer?

Prayer For Humility And Hunger

SPEAKER_07 22:55

Yeah. Absolutely. All right. Dear Heavenly Father, Lord God, I just I thank you so much for this study, Heavenly Father. And I thank you for the times, Lord, where Lord God, the more and more that I read your word, sometimes I just feel like we none of us ever get you right perfectly. That your knowledge and your wisdom and your love is even in our finite state, is so deep, Lord God, that we just can't understand it. And although we try and we we read your word, Lord, we just realize it just it just humbles me every single time that I get into your word, Lord, and that we all come together. I am absolutely humbled in your presence, Lord God, knowing that even in the times where I feel like I know it, when I come before you, Lord, I just realize that I feel like I understand nothing. But what I'm encouraged in, Lord God, is that you have given not only myself, but each and every one of us to continue to seek you in all things, Lord God. And I'm so thankful for the heart that you have given us, Lord, that when we go into your word, the only thing that we want to glorify is you. The only thing that we want to see, Lord, is you. The only thing that we want to be better in is the things that have to do with you, Lord. You make us more holy, Lord God, and you transform us, not only in our minds, but the way that we act and love others, Lord God, the way that we are true representatives of the transformation that you have so graciously given each and every one of us, Father. And I'm so humbled by your word, oh God. I'm so humbled by it. And I just thank you that when I read, Lord, that I we're all turning into the people that you seek, the worshipers that worship you in spirit and in truth, Heavenly Father. And as I read your word, Father, it just takes every bit of flesh from me. And it makes me and each and every one of us into who you've called us to be, and that the only thing that we can do is fall down before you, Lord God, because you are unsearchable in your wisdom and the fact that you have just imparted these nuggets of wisdom to us, Father. I'm just so grateful and I'm so thankful that when we all come together in the minds that you've given us, that the end goal is always the same, and that's to completely glorify you and your majesty and your holiness and your righteousness and your sovereignty. And Lord God, I just thank you so much. I'm so grateful for this panel. I'm so grateful for this family that you have not given only me, but every single person that's in here, Lord God. And I can only just thank you because I know, Lord, that at the end of my journey, I have absolutely nothing to offer you, and neither of us do. None of us do. The only thing that we can offer is the people that we spread the gospel to and that you give salvation to. Those are the only people that can come with us, and so help us continue to spread the gospel, Lord God, and help us continue to edify the body of Christ and build each other up in your word so we can truly understand the rest that you have called from us to us from the very beginning, Lord. And Lord, I I can only say thankful, tell you that I'm thankful. I can only tell you how grateful I am. And um, I ask that you just continue to bless us, Father. Continue to unite us in your truth, continue to humble us in our spirit for when we are humble, God, then we can truly understand who you are. And Lord, thank you for the fear that you have given each and every one of us, Lord, because that is the beginning of wisdom, Lord, when we fear you in awe and in reverence, Lord God, for who you are. And I'm so thankful for that, Father. And Lord, I just ask that as we all go to sleep tonight, Lord God, that you just allow us to get the true rest, Lord, that we know is only in you. But as we go to sleep, Lord, just continue to renew our minds and renew our hearts, make them clean, Lord, as you have already done, but we just stand in a place of unworthiness because we know every single thing that you have done.

SPEAKER_06 27:58

And so many times, Lord, I ask myself, you know, just why me? Like out of all the people in the world, why why any of us, Lord God, that you have just bestowed your grace upon us. And you sent your son. I'm so thankful. I I just I just come before you, Lord God, empty-handed, and I just thank you.

SPEAKER_07 28:22

And I just ask all of this, um, not anything, really, Lord, just to thank you and glorify you in my prayer tonight, Father, and I just thank you for it. In Jesus' name I pray. Amen.

SPEAKER_04 28:34

Amen. Amen. Thank you so much for that.

SPEAKER_05 28:40

And uh I'm sorry. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_04 28:46

They're there. Good night.

SPEAKER_06 28:53

Goodbye.

SPEAKER_04 28:55

God bless you.

SPEAKER_05 29:01

Don't hit her with that. Oh goodness.

SPEAKER_04 29:07

It's like one of those uh one of those memes. You know. That was beautiful. But anyway, thank you for that prayer, Meg. It was an excellent prayer, sister, as always. And uh and and uh I I could not be, you know, I I could not be happier. I've taught some some tough classes in the past, but this is a good a great group of people, and and I just love the engagement and uh that you that you guys put forth. And I and I and my my joy in all of this is when I hear how everybody is going back. Just like when uh when Meg was saying she's read the you know the last three the last four chapters or whatever over and over again. And when but and when uh Hannah says that she was on YouTube catching up, and everybody just has all this. I I just love it. That that's my thrill. That's my thrill. It's not about me feeling like I need to be right, it's just knowing that everybody here desires to to get closer to God as Sister Meg prayed, to get a better understanding of his glory. That's what we're here to do. And so, and but I love the the the uh the uh contributions that everyone makes, especially from uh those who it would be like pulling teeth to get them to speak. But now you can't stop you you know, you guys, you you know so uh God bless you, God bless this group that we have together, and uh may we all continue to be serious, serious students of God's word and and bring it every night when you come and and just stay stay faithful. So I I love you all. Have a great night. Look forward to Job 37 tomorrow. I'm looking forward to being done with the book. It's a tough one, but um um, but no, but I love it. I I love it. So God's.

SPEAKER_07 31:01

Can we honestly say don't be an Ellie who?

SPEAKER_04 31:04

Yeah, I could.

SPEAKER_06 31:06

Yeah, I could not say that. I will not say that.

SPEAKER_04 31:10

Yeah, then she goes starting this up again, right?

SPEAKER_05 31:11

Don't be a Bill Dad.

SPEAKER_06 31:13

We'll just stick with Bill Dad.

SPEAKER_04 31:18

She's so pretty. All right, everybody. You have you have a good night. Love you guys. May God bless you. Bless all of you.

SPEAKER_05 31:25

I love y'all so much.

SPEAKER_04 31:26

All right.

SPEAKER_05 31:27

Love you guys, bye night.