LIVE DISCUSSION: "With God Is Terrible Majesty" (JOB 37), Part 2/3

Something is off about the way Job’s friends talk. They say true things about God, but Job is still sitting in the dirt with no comfort, no explanation, and no advocate. We pick up in Job 37 and ask the hard question believers still ask in grief, trauma, and loss: why would God allow this, and what do we do when the reason stays hidden?

Jonathan is joined by Sister Mariah, Sister Lisa, and Brother Jeffrey to unpack Elihu’s speech and the repeated warning about speaking “by reason of darkness.” We explore the difference between sound doctrine and wise care, why the “it must be sin” instinct misses the point of Job’s suffering, and how the book shows the limits of human certainty when God has not made the story public. Along the way we connect Job’s ache to modern struggles like depression, anxiety, and the pain of unanswered prayers.

We also get personal about prayer and authenticity. If God already knows our hearts, what does reverence look like when we’re angry, scared, or desperate for God to speak? We close by looking ahead to the moment when God finally answers, not with easy explanations, but with questions that reshape Job’s humility and trust.

If this challenged you, subscribe, share it with a friend who needs wiser comfort, and leave a review so more people can find it. What’s the most helpful thing someone has ever said or done when you were suffering?

Transcript

Job’s Isolation And Friends’ Failure

SPEAKER_03 0:00

Did not happen. And like you said, Ellie Hugh has been nothing but a motor mouse ever since he showed up. And he just won't stop. Okay? So so far through all of this, Job has received zero encouragement. You talk about somebody who needs it, who has lost what he has lost, and yet his three friends didn't have a nickel's worth of compassion for him. That's just one of the things about this book that I have learned from it, Jonathan, that you have pointed out so well is zero compassion from anybody when Job endured this. Not his wife, not his three so-called best friends, not LAU, not his servants, nobody. He sits out in a naked with a uh in a field, scraping his sword with a piece of uh pottery, uh a shard of pottery, okay? That's how great his life is right now. Where is everybody? They're going. Why did God allow this? And Jonathan, that question or the answer to it may fall in the category of God is God and we are not. Meaning there are things that we he will do, Jonathan, we may never understand the reason for. I've often thought that in the beginning of Job, when we read about where Job and Satan are having discussions, he says, Have you considered my servant Job? It's almost as if God is offering him to this. Okay, try him. I've often thought that maybe God is trying at that moment was trying to make a statement to the devil to tell him, look, not everybody down here is as corrupt on earth as you think they are. I've got a righteousness, and I'm gonna let you punish him, I'm gonna let you see that he will remain a righteous man. Then when you're done doing what you're gonna do to us, I'm gonna bless him with even more than what he has now. And of course, we know the story. That's what happens, and the devil comes out on the short end of the stick. So, anyway, that's what I wanted to share. And um uh it's gonna be interesting when we get into the next chapters, brother, to see exactly what God has to say to Job.

SPEAKER_02 2:30

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 2:31

Looking forward to that, Sister Mariah.

SPEAKER_00 2:39

Um, yeah, so I'm looking here at um verse 19, and it says, Teach us what we shall say unto him, for we cannot order our speech by reason of darkness. And I think that that is true. We should not speak on God, on God, on what we do not know, or we have no wisdom or understanding or knowledge. And I think this is also true and applies to us as well. We cannot speak on each other's matter out of darkness and think that it is okay to say that we know uh why something is going on or how somebody is should feel our feeling or anything of that matter. All of these people, by their um responses, we can tell that they have never suffered or had affliction in such the way as Job, even a little inkling of it, because had they, they would not feel the way that they are feeling. So they are themselves speaking out of darkness and ignorance on Job's behalf, in my opinion.

Elihu’s Truth That Misses Job

When Theology Meets Depression

Authentic Prayer When God Feels Silent

SPEAKER_02 3:50

Right. Absolutely. Absolutely. So you you know, in in these verses here, 14 through 18, you know, it you know, it it concurs with what Sister Mariah is saying, which is that man can explain how God orders things, you know, the clouds, the winds, the sky, the thunderstorms, the rain. You know, you know, he he he is throwing out some some very um uh he's throwing out principles about God that any that any person who is acquainted with the Lord will know and understand. So you know, you can't fault him for saying the truth, but if we're trying to get down to the truth as it pertains to Job and why he is suffering, that's a di that's quite a very different story. It's different, it's a different story. And all of these men struggled to be able to answer as to answer Job as to why he's suffering. Not only could they not understand it, but Job didn't understand it. And there was no way to understand it because God didn't convey it to anyone. You know, so we know from the historical narrative that this all began with a confrontation between God and Satan. And so there was never anybody made privy to what is going on. Not even Elihu was privy to what was going on. He didn't know, so we can't possibly address why Job was being afflicted. Elihu, just like the other ones, none of them were privy as to why Job was suffering. None of them could give an answer as to why Job was suffering. And while you may be able to quote verses and quote scripture and tell the truth about God, what Job is trying to understand is why these things happened to him while they were happening. And so the only thing that they could come up with was that, well, Job, it must be because of sin. And the first three friends were like, well, Job, you're being condemned because your sin has found you out, and now God is condemning you for it. And what Elihu is saying, well, well, well, Job, you are guilty of sin. However, I'm not gonna go as far as the other guys are going. I'm not saying that you're going to be condemned or punished or damned by God, but I am saying that what has happened to you is corrective in nature. And both groups are agreeing that Job has an issue with sin, but they are just agreeing, they're disagreeing or having to agree to not agree on why God is applying this affliction. The group, they're saying it's because he's being condemned for his sin. Elihu is saying that Job is being is being corrected by God. But then the issue has to be, as we have discussed many times over, has to be, if Job, whether he's being, whether his whether the affliction that God imposed upon him was about being corrected for sin or being punished for sin, we have to answer that question. But if we go back to the beginning, we understand that this had nothing to do with any sin on the part of Job. Are we saying Job didn't sin in his life? No, we're not saying that. We're saying that the reason for his affliction had nothing to do with any scandal in Job's life. And we know that because of what God has said. This is a dead horse that we beat many times. And so this is the issue that we're dealing with. Why was Job being afflicted? And although we're getting some very illustrious and and and articulate descriptions of God's sovereignty by Elihu, and they're right. But they are not explaining why Job is being afflicted. They're not explaining what happened between God and Satan because they didn't know. Elihu didn't know, his friends didn't know, Job didn't know. So no one could explain. They couldn't, because this thing, as far as any of them were concerned, this was a secret thing that belongs to God. That's what it was. A secret thing that belongs to God. And so Elihu asked these questions that deal with the humility that is necessary for the pride of man and to remind man that he is limited in his understanding about God. And most people will know, like if somebody came to you, any of us as believers and said, you know, God is great, we would go, Yeah, I agree. God controls his providence and sovereignty, governs all earth. We'll go, yeah, we agree. If they say that God does many things that man can understand, we would all say, Yeah, we agree. But the issue is this. How does my knowledge of that help me deal with my sin? How does this help me deal with my depression or anxiety? How does this make me deal with the uneasiness that I have in my faith? How does this help me deal with my unanswered prayers by God as I perceive them? You see, what I think we're learning about Job, what I think we're learning about Job is the aspect that takes place between a servant of God and his relationship to God. Because what I want to get what I want to try to dig deep into understanding, you know, what I want to try to resolve is this issue of what is going on, because this book is about several things. The relationship between Satan and God in this narrative, the relationship between Job and his friends in this narrative, including Elihu. But the significant one that we're dealing with ultimately near the end is the relationship between Job and God. Because, as we have said earlier, when we started this, when we started this whole series, we talked about how Job is a book that teaches us on how to suffer well. And I believe that is a good understanding, that is a good uh description of what we should learn from this book, how to suffer well. And I have to tell you, Job is showing us that. Elihu is not showing us that. All the truth he's saying, he is not showing how it is to suffer well. He's not the one suffering. Eliphaz, Bildad, Zophar, none of these guys have explained to Job how to suffer well. No, both sides were looking at what Job needs to do in order to be made right with God for unforeseen sin or sin that has not been mitigated before the tribunal of God. And so it's a it's a it's it's not tricky. He has no advocate, which is why he is looking only to God. And although Elihu pipes in and says, Whoa, God is gonna grant your, God has granted your wish to speak with him, and he has sent me to be his mouthpiece to you. Nothing here in the scripture says that. Elihu said that, but there's nothing to indicate that God said it. Nothing indicates that God sent Elihu to Job to be a mouthpiece. Nothing. And so, and yet this is one of the early things that he says. Job, your wish has been granted. Your wish has been granted, and I am going to answer to you on God's behalf. He is acclaim, he is claiming to do with Job. What he is accused, what what Job is accused of not doing. Speaking for God. Elihu is going, Job, you haven't at this point yet spoken for God, but I'm going to speak to you for God, you know, on God's behalf. I'm going to straighten you out. And yes, he says a lot of things that are true about God, but he doesn't address why Job was afflicted. And none of them do. None of them do. Verse 19 and 20 of Job 37. Elihu says, Teach us what we shall say unto him, for we cannot order our speech by reason of darkness, as our sister cited earlier. Shall it be told him that I speak? If a man speak, surely he shall be swallowed up. So what is he saying? He's saying that man is capable of speaking to God. Or let me put it this way. He's saying that man is not capable. Man is not capable of speaking to God as an equal. Nor is man capable of arguing his case before God as if he fully understood all the matters as it pertains to divinity. And he's right. He's right because human knowledge and human knowledge is too limited. It is limited. Elihu is right. He's saying a lot of true things about God. But again, this has nothing to do with the situation that Job is going through, but he is saying true things. And so the thought here is that if a man were to speak rashly before God, he would be overwhelmed because he doesn't know God. He doesn't know the deep things of God. He doesn't know the secret things of God. And we all know for reading the book of Job that what has happened to Job was secret and what remained in the divine councils. God did not tell anyone what happened. And he never does. He never does. And he doesn't have to. And he doesn't have to. He's under no obligation to do so. He doesn't. So the thought here is that if a man were to speak, he couldn't. And he should be, he should be afraid. He should have reverence lest he find himself to be speaking out of turn, as Job is going to find out that he has spoken. And God is going to fix him. He's going to get him to understand things at a deeper level, things that also elicit a greater degree of dependence by Job on God. And when Job hears from God, trust me, he's not in debate mode anymore. He submits immediately. He submits immediately. And so humility and caution are required. When we speak about God and his ways, me and all of you, everyone. We need to understand that when we're speaking about God, we are speaking about the sovereign creator of the universe. The sovereign who controls our very lives, who gives breath to our very souls. We are speaking about the God who controls all things, who gives life, the God who condemns, the God who is under no obligation to give man an answer for anything. He doesn't owe us anything. And what we need to know about him, what we need the most to know about him, no man can answer. And we're seeing this with these guys. We can blame them, of course. But they have no ability to answer Job in a way that is that comports with the truth as it is and can only be conveyed by God. They can't. And yes, you can say a lot of true things, but the issue is how do these help? You can't just randomly just throw out Bible verses and hope that the person who is undergoing who is undergoing depression and anxiety and had and having and contemplating terrible things in their minds that they may want to do to themselves. If you see someone standing on a ledge, what are you going to do? Go out there and bark out verses? Is that going to make a person step away? See, this is this comes down to how we use God's words and how we use it and how we apply it to ourselves and how we use it to be a blessing to others. But deal with somebody who's going through a tragic situation, potentially a life-threatening tragic situation. What are you gonna do? Go up there and just quote verses. God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son. There's something else that a person needs to have when they go to someone who is struggling. There needs to be a compassionate vibe. There needs to be a desire to put your arms around this person and to envelop them and to show love, not just talk about it, but to show it. To exhibit it. And we live in a time where it is very difficult to do because everybody is so secure-minded, security-minded. I don't want anyone coming to my house because I don't know what they're gonna do to me. Everybody's worried that somebody's gonna take, take, take from them. Everybody's worried about who's going to rob them of the opportunities that they have and deserve. Job needed comfort. We know that from the very beginning, and we know that until God comes and speaks in in the next chapter, Job never gets it. We may have our differing opinions on Elihu, but he brought no comfort to Job whatsoever. Zero. Regardless of his emotions, regardless of his heart, regardless of his desire, none of them, including Elihu, none of them brought comfort to Job whatsoever. None of them gave him an answer as to why he was being afflicted. They couldn't, because God didn't tell anyone. Sister Lisa, go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 21:41

Well, I was just gonna what came to mind is the actual relationship that Job actually has with God. Um, I mean, he we knew from the very beginning he's he's he's perfect in upright in God's. Site. And we know that he was given revelation of things that could only have come from God Himself. For instance, you know, total depravity and things we've talked to in previous uh things we've talked about in previous verses. So what Elihu, the way he's speaking, he's speaking, um, again, like you said, out of knowledge of knowledge, there's not there's not a whole lot of wisdom in his speech. Otherwise, he would he would think, is this going to be helpful? He is, he, you know, we need to be authentic in front of God. He knows anyway, right? His children. I think Job at the very end, he he never did curse God. And he, I don't, he never stepped over the boundary, but I think at the end, and I said it before in another live, I think Job was in such desperation to hear from God that he would try to anger God enough just to speak. Like even God speaking to him in anger would be better than the silence he was feeling.

SPEAKER_02 23:20

I agree. I agree.

SPEAKER_01 23:22

And it's the same with us because we're children of God. Imagine we know now, and this is another thing. We were given, God showed this to us. He said, you know, Job didn't know this, none of the other guys knew this, Elihu didn't knew this. But guess what? God did, He put it down so we could have some understanding.

SPEAKER_03 23:44

That's right.

SPEAKER_01 23:44

We don't have the ins and outs, but my goodness, that is the most beautiful thing that he would do something like that.

SPEAKER_03 23:53

Right.

SPEAKER_01 23:54

To for for us, you know what I mean? To teach us this lesson.

SPEAKER_03 23:58

Right.

SPEAKER_01 23:58

So I just I think it's I think it's beautiful. I think being authentic in front of God, and he knows how you feel anyway. So if you're angry, you might as well say, God, I'm angry, because it's not like you can fool him, or you you you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 24:13

Right. And I'm gonna touch upon this a little bit later because I think there's a lot of truth to what you just said right there. Being authentic before God is a very important thing that we're gonna understand about Job. That we're gonna understand about Job.

SPEAKER_01 24:26

One more thing. I just want to bring up what what Hannah yesterday said. That one of the verses she brought up where she said, Elihu, he's not authentic. He he is he's singing all of God's praises, but she said she brought up a verse, they honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me.

SPEAKER_03 24:47

Right.

SPEAKER_01 24:48

Bam, the nail in the head with this guy is what I'm getting. Right. Like he's got all the right things to say, but in my mind, I just picture God just if his eyes roll back in his head, they are rolling back in his head, if it's possible.

SPEAKER_02 25:06

Right, right. Absolutely. Um, brother Jeffrey, go ahead.

SPEAKER_03 25:13

You know, Jonathan, to me, it it's ironic and sad at the same time that through 37 chapters, neither Job's three so-called supposed friends or LEQ offered him a nickel's worth of encouragement or hope at any time. All they did for all this time is simply condemn Job and try to get him to uh confess something he never did. Okay. You have to wonder how that affected Job when God gets around to speaking to Job here as he starts to in the next chapter. You have to wonder if maybe God's plan wasn't also for Job's so-called friends to do this, to get Job in a position to get him ready to receive what God is about to tell us. Tell us. Or I should say the questions that God has for Job. It's not so much that God explains to Job why he did what he did, he asks Job a series of questions. Job doesn't have an answer to. So he's gonna ask Job some questions that just, you know, you know, he's gonna have a hard time answering. So again, uh Job is gonna is a different man now than he was before all of this started. So he's gonna be a different man even more after God speaks to him, and then God begins to restore him. We're talking about two different men here. One at the beginning that we know of who was a good and righteous man, and then at the end of this, who is even a more righteous man. Right, absolutely. So God used him in a mighty way, and we have the blessing of being able to see all of this and read it. So thank you for the study in it. That's all I wanted to say.

Reverence Before God As God Approaches

SPEAKER_02 27:06

Amen, brother. Amen. So, Job 37. I'm gonna read verses 21 through 24, which ends the chapter. And Elihu says, And now men see the bright light, which is in the clouds, but the wind passes and cleanses them. Fair weather comes out of the north. With God is terrible majesty. Touching the Almighty, we cannot find him out. He is excellent in power and in judgment, and in plenty of justice. He will not afflict. Men do therefore fear him. He respects not any that are wise of heart. And so we conclude this chapter in Job 37 with Elihu by emphasizing God's majesty and God's incomprehensible nature. Again. And the repetition is important for us to remember. Elihu in his defense, he is saying true things. But what he is saying has nothing to do with Job's condition and why he got there. And how he got there. That's not that's not what that's not what he's doing. And one thing that we can at least say about the other three, they were boisterous, they were harsh, and they were um overly zealous in their assessments. But what they were doing in their own minds, as wrong as it was, they thought in their mind that they were trying to tell Job what to do in order to be right with God. And so they weren't able to do that. They were wrong. So was Elihu. He was wrong. He didn't bring anything to the table, neither did the other the first three. None of them brought anything to the table. None of them. And so we have the situation where at the end of the at the end of it all, God finally comes in, and we see this beginning tomorrow, where where God has to step in because no one is addressing Job, and God is going to be the one that finally addresses Job. And he is going to be as thorough as any, as any as God, only God could be. And if any of these men, including Elihu, had anything that was beneficial to Job, then God would not have needed to come in and say anything. So none of them, when it came to Job, none of them got it right. None of them. Were they all wrong? They weren't all wrong on everything. Were they right when it came to God? Yes. Were they right when it came to Job? No. None of them. Not Elihu, not any of the first three. None of them. And so this is why it is such a beautiful thing for us as believers to have the Holy Spirit dwelling within us, leading us and guiding us into all truth, convincing us of sin, teaching us the word, helping us to understand the testimony as it pertains to Christ. And so we have this on a much larger scale, and yet, in general, in general terms, even though we have so much more light today, give yourself 10 minutes on these apps and social media, and you will find out how few people actually understand the truth of God in spite of all this light that we have. It just goes to show you that only the Spirit of God can make us understand those things which come from the Lord. Only He can do that. And so God's ways, although they they may be sometimes hidden, like Elihu is talking about, like the sun behind the clouds, his power and his justice, they remain absolutely 100% certain. And because God is perfect in power, because he is perfect in his justice, he must be reverenced. Again, this is what Elihu is saying. He's true. But we know that Elihu, I mean, we know that Job referenced, reverenced God because God himself said it twice. Here Elihu is saying, God must be reverenced. Job reverenced God, and we have the testimony of God himself that that is true. And so human wisdom, human wisdom before God means nothing. It means nothing to God. Nothing. God doesn't learn from us. Nothing that we manufacture in our minds and hearts can teach God anything. And Elihu does a good job of talking about making this case for God. But the whole issue is in this particular narrative, is how do we bring comfort to Job? How do we bring comfort to Job? Do we just say, Job, be warmed and be filled? That's what this is coming down to.

SPEAKER_00 33:31

We asked the Lord in our prayers to give Job a hug for us.

SPEAKER_02 33:37

To give Job a hug for us?

SPEAKER_00 33:38

Uh-huh. Because he's there.

SPEAKER_02 33:41

He's where?

SPEAKER_00 33:42

He's in heaven.

SPEAKER_02 33:44

Yeah, he's definitely there in heaven now. We definitely know where he is now. So we're going to be able to do it.

SPEAKER_00 33:48

It's a great hug. Hug Job for us because we just finished this book.

SPEAKER_02 33:52

Almost. We're almost done.

SPEAKER_00 33:54

Yeah, we're almost there.

SPEAKER_02 33:56

But human wisdom before God means means zero. And so the re the proper response, the proper response for God is that we should have for God is fear or reverence, or reverential fear and humility. And we should all be willing to submit before the Almighty. We should all be willing to submit before Him and to beg God to forgive us for our misunderstandings. Even in our private moments. Even in our private moments, when we are struggling, when we are internally murmuring and complaining about God's allotment for our life. We also believe very often that there is a time frame that God should be adhering to in order to ease the things that struggle that cause us to struggle. But as Brother Jeffrey says, we deserve nothing. We deserve nothing. And when you know that you deserve nothing, then you understand the first elements of humility. To know that you deserve nothing. Because when you deserve nothing, it makes you thankful for everything.

SPEAKER_00 35:43

Amen.

SPEAKER_03 35:46

I'm thankful for grace.

SPEAKER_02 35:47

Thankful for God's grace.

SPEAKER_03 35:48

Unmerited grace.

SPEAKER_02 35:50

That's right. His unmerited, unending mercy, his compassion. We are nothing before him. This is what this is the signal, the seminal fact about Christians. True, God-believing, blood-washed Christians. They submit to God wholly, completely, with utmost humility. And what men see about us on the outside, don't pay attention to that. Know your own hearts. Know your own hearts. Because what does God look at? He looks at the heart, does he not? Amen. Brother Jeffrey, go ahead.

SPEAKER_03 36:46

You said to submit to God wholly and freely. Jonathan, I am happy. And with godly pride, able to say that's what we're doing here. Right. That's what everybody in this panel does. That's what you do. That's what I'm working to do. We surrender and be available. Every day, Jonathan, our first prayer in the morning should be Lord, here am I. Use me. Use me today, however you want to. Not what I think. Not what I feel. Not what I think is the right thing to do. I want to be where you want me to be. I want to do what you want me to do. I want to say what you want me to say. Many, many times, Jonathan, my brother, that doesn't always look like what we think it should look like. Right. It looks like something totally alien and foreign to us. And yet when that happens, brother Jonathan, that's one way we can know we're walking in the will of God. When God has us on a desert road, so to speak, but he's and it's we're it's lonely out there, but he's walking with us still. He's right there with us. We know we're in the will of God. Hallelujah.

SPEAKER_02 38:05

Amen, brother. Amen. So you know, so we're almost there, everybody. We're we're we're you know, Job's three friends and Elihu, they have finished speaking. So the next time we get together, we'll we will be hearing from the Lord Himself. And I'm excited about hearing that and going through that with you. But we are almost, we're coming to a close. We have roughly, what, five chapters left, something like that. So we're gonna be done. We're gonna be done. And then I'll find another can of worms to open out, open up and uh get us to discuss. But let me just say this. So, you know, one that I think one of the things that I did in order to sort of expedite this this um this book was was to sort of eliminate some of the detail that I wanted to address with regard to Elihu, um, especially in the end, because the discussions that we've been having have have been um um noteworthy in the sense that