LIVE DISCUSSION: "The Potter, The Clay & Reprobation" (Part 1/5)

Clay doesn’t bargain, and Scripture never pretends it does. We take the potter and the clay straight into the deep end of Romans 9, where Paul shuts down the impulse to put God on trial and insists that the Creator has rights the creature does not. If you’ve ever felt the tension between God’s sovereignty and human responsibility, this conversation names that tension clearly and refuses the comfort of vague answers.

We walk through Romans 9:20–23 line by line, focusing on the dividing line Paul draws between vessels of wrath and vessels of mercy. From there we connect the dots to total depravity and why the “it’s up to you” version of salvation collapses under the weight of the text. The point isn’t to make people cynical, but to make grace look like grace: mercy, compassion, election, and effectual calling come from God, not from a hidden spark of moral ability in us.

Isaiah reinforces the same message by calling out the upside-down thinking that treats the potter like the clay. Then Jeremiah’s potter scenes sharpen the warning: the marred vessel gets discarded, and the broken vessel becomes a picture of judgment that cannot be undone. Along the way we talk about imputed righteousness, what it means to be dead in sin, and why “with men it is impossible” is not an exaggeration but the foundation for hope.

If you care about biblical theology, Reformed doctrine, and the hard honesty of Romans 9, listen through and weigh the claims against the text. Subscribe for more, share this with a friend who loves Scripture, and leave a review. Where do you feel the strongest pushback against the potter-and-clay truth?

Transcript

Potter And Clay Framework

SPEAKER_00 0:00

I am going to be dealing with the topic of the potter and the clay. And I'll be putting a particular emphasis on the reprobate in conjunction with the depravity of man. And depravity of man is something that is often overlooked and by much of Christianity, and the part of and the great part of those who are of the Christian faith do not embrace what is conveyed in the idea of man's depravity, the depravity of man. And so, that being the case, it makes it very difficult to understand how any true believer can come to a right understanding about God if he doesn't understand himself before God. And this is critical because many Christians do not like the idea of embracing the notion, which is biblical fact, that God is sovereignly in control of man's salvation, and that that involvement of God in the way that he brings about our salvation is of necessity. And the necessity of the salvation that man needs in order to be saved is a salvation that comes by way of God's mercy, compassion, and grace, and not by anything that man can do or is inherent in man to be able to do. So this is what we must contend with and must deal with it from the way the Bible presents it. I'm going to start by reading in Romans chapter 9, and I'm going to read chapter or verse 20 through 23. This is what Paul the Apostle says, beginning in Romans 9, verse 20. Nay, but O man, who are you that replies against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why have you made me this way? Does not the potter, hath not the potter power over the clay of the same lump, to make one vessel unto honor and another unto dishonor? The question being rhetorical. Verse 22. What since God willing to show his wrath and to make his power known endures with much long suffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction, and that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he has prepared before unto glory. Now, I can't speak for every professing Christian as to how these verses are so often misunderstood. And to misunderstand what is said here is to resort to embracing a gross miscalculation about the nature of man and the nature of God. Notice what he says here in verses 22 and 23 of Romans 9. What if God willing to show his wrath to make his power known, he endured as he does with much long sufferings the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction? In verse 23, and that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy which he prepared beforehand unto glory. So Paul clearly delineates between two types of people: vessels of wrath that are fitted to destruction, and vessels of mercy that God has prepared beforehand unto glory. These are the two camps that exist on earth today, and has and has always existed. There are two types of people. Those who are vessels of wrath, and those who are vessels of mercy. Both camps come from the same clay. Both camps are formed by God to fulfill a purpose ordained by God. And this is what we're going to be handling tonight. And if God is merciful to me, I hope that I will be able to convey these truths in a very articulate way for everyone. So we've seen in this verse that God, that the imagery Paul begins here with is this potter and the clay. The pottery the clay. Paul didn't just make this up, he didn't just derive this of his own, not that he could not have, but he had sufficient record for this metaphor to be used in describing how God has sovereign control over humanity, both the believer and the unbeliever. And so I'm going to show you across a multiplicity of verses how God is consistently emphasizing his own sovereignty, his own authority over not only his own people, but also over humanity in general. And that does not exclude human responsibility. So here are a few of these passages that I want to briefly cover and go through, and hopefully to reinforce your understanding of the doctrine that is at hand. In Isaiah chapter 29, verse 16, the prophet says this surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay. For shall the work say to him that made it that he did not make me? Or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it? Does he, the potter that is, shall the potter have no understanding? And if you look at Romans chapter 9, you see Paul saying the same thing in verse 20, chapter 9, when he says, Nay, but oh man, who are you that replies against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why have you made me this way? So you see Isaiah in chapter 29, verse 16, saying the similar thing. Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as potter's plenty. For shall the work say of him that made it, has he not made me? Or shall the thing framed or formed, as Paul says it, has he no understanding? So what Paul is saying here, and what Isaiah is saying here, is this does the shall the potter be regarded in the same way that the clay is being regarded? Does the potter, it is the potter and the clay on equal footing? Are they equal? Are they on the same footing? Do they negotiate? Do they transact? And this is what Paul and Isaiah are both showing is certainly not the case. It is not the case. God is the potter, and we are the clay. We are the clay. And what attributes does clay have? Clay has no ability to reason. Not in a right way. Not now after we have been fallen. Clay makes no decisions. Clay is shaped and formed by the potter to serve the potter in the way that the potter has deemed necessary for his own purposes and his own glory. We are the clay. God is the potter. Rejects this altogether. And he believes that there is something that is going on whereby man is on equal footing with God, and all they have to do is resolve their differences. And there should be cooperation between the two. Well, how can clay cooperate? Clay, how can clay, dirt, mud cooperate with a sovereign almighty God who created all things, including the clay? He shapes men to perform what he has ordered. What he has ordained, what he has decreed for every single individual person is not the same, and every single person will definitely accomplish that for which they were shaped, framed, formed, and ordered by God. They will do what it is they were called to do by God. So this rebukes any absurd notion that people have of the create of the creature in terms of his ability to be able to question the creator. Whatever he does with each one of us, none of us has the ability to rebuke him for what he has done with us. Especially if you are amongst that group of people who believes that your will is so free that you are unbiased and can do whatever it is you want to do, and that God is waiting for you to make a favorable to him decision. In other words, there is much of Christianity who believes that God is sitting back waiting and hoping that after all that he has done, you will respond to it in a positive way. And that you will receive salvation that he wants you to have. News flash. If God wanted you to have salvation, you have it already. If God wants you to have salvation, salvation will be yours. If God wants you to be saved and to have salvation, he is going to do all that it takes to effectually bring about that end. You have all, we have a variety, I especially have a variety of opposers that exist on this very platform who would oppose me on this. And it just shows how foolish and incompetent those who pick up the Bible and say they believe it are when they don't understand that God is sovereignly in control of all things. Man is depraved to the utmost and can do nothing that pertains to salvation in bringing in bringing in reconciliation between him and God. Not by his own effort. No matter what you do, you cannot make or cause or do anything that causes God to determine that he needs to save you. He is under no obligation to save any. Take pieces of what I'm saying in this video, and you can splice it up all you want to and put all the comments and demon horns you want to on what I'm saying. But what I am telling you all is the truth. And that is, God is sovereign over all of his creation, especially when it comes to men, and even more particularly when it comes to the men who he is saving. He chooses, he determines, he effectually calls, he preserves and sanctifies, he makes holy, he has made us his workmanship created unto good works. It is he who works in us both to will and to do of his good pleasure. It is he that overrides that aspect in our inability to become to be saved, because with men it is impossible. So it is he that must overtake, must overcome our depravity in order for us to be saved. You see, this is where the good news just gets better and better. Don't let these people tell you something different. Don't let them tell you that it's up to you. Don't let these foolish men and women who are out there babbling all over social media, telling you that salvation is about you and what you do and how you feel, and when you get to it, that's great. God is waiting on bended knee for you to come to him. And he's desiring that you come to him. He is waiting up there, hoping, and he is praying that you come to your senses. That is not the God I worship. And that is not the God who exists. And the God that we worship is the only God that does exist. And the God that does exist, which is the only one that exists, exists, which is the one that we worship. We know this for a fact. There is absolutely no way that you can come to him with the filth and stench of sin on you. You cannot come to him without righteousness that has been imputed to you by Christ. And that means that imputation is something that is done and effected by the sovereign hand of God. Nothing to do with you. You didn't reach out, you didn't assume, you didn't intellectualize, you didn't rationalize, you didn't reason. You were dead in sin and trespasses. And when you came to faith, it took a sovereign work of God to raise you from the state of spiritual deadness. You were dead in sin and trespasses. And the only way someone dead can effectively do anything that is pleasing to God is if he should choose to raise you from the dead. Like my brother says, dead means dead. The potsherds, broken pieces of pottery, you strive with one another, but don't be foolish enough to try to strive with the most high. Isaiah says, Woe unto him that strives with his maker, woe unto him that strives with his maker. You and I, we were pot sherves, broken pieces of pottery, pottery that was discarded by God, rejected, rendered reprobate, fit for no good use. And all men coming from the same lump of clay, we were all sinful dead creatures, dead, having no ability to be made right with God. Only God can make us right with God. We cannot make ourselves right with God. He gives us the gift of repentance, he gives us the gift of faith. He gives us the gift of grace. He sanctifies, he mortifies. We do nothing other than make one simple contribution to our salvation. Our sin. Our sin is all that we have. Man has nothing to offer God before salvation, and he doesn't offer it have anything to offer to God after salvation. What man after salvation offers God are the fruits and the rewards of righteous deeds that the Lord Himself works in you to do of his good pleasure. Even your works as a Christian are the works that have been given to you by God to be worked out in your life for his glory. This is the truth. And everyone listening needs to be persuaded of these things because they are facts and they are true. Man offers Nothing. If you are not a Christian and you're listening to this, let me tell you something. There is nothing that you can do. The Lord Jesus Christ Himself said it. What must a man do to be saved is what Christ Jesus was asked. And his answer was, with men it is impossible. It is impossible to believe that if something is impossible, that man can exercise his will to do that thing which is impossible. Christ expressed it that way for a reason. With men it is impossible. But with God, all things are possible. So if man is going to be saved, which is impossible for him to do, then he needs a sovereign work of God to step in and intervene in order that the man might be changed, that his heart might be changed. And it is from the changed heart that God gives by grace and by mercy. It is by what he gives, his gifts. It is by that, those gifts that he gives, that man is then able by faith to repent and to turn to God and to be reconciled to God. Men like to make it difficult. Woe to him who strives with him who formed him. He says, Woe to him who strives with his maker. Stop fighting with God. You will not win. You, your complaints about what he does, you are not worthy to level any type of a complaint. None of us are. Became marred, tainted, corrupt, not to the level of perfection that he wanted it to be. And he's painting this imagery of what he does when it is marred and uh and of no use. He tosses it away, and then he makes another vessel that seems good to the potter to make. And no doubt Jeremiah is warning the nation of Israel at that time that if you are not going to serve in the uprightness of heart that you ought to be serving God in, you are a marred vessel and are subject to be cast out. And then the potter will make another vessel that seems good to the potter to make. And no one, whether it be the piece of pottery that was discarded, or whether it not be the vessel that was made for glory, both serve a purpose in God's ultimate design and order. And in Jeremiah, we see here one of the most pronounced of all of the detailed narratives concerning the potter language. And in the potter, he remakes and makes and does a redo when it comes to this marred vessel. He throws it out. And as I said, he's speaking to Israel. Jeremiah is speaking to Israel. And we will find that Paul in Romans 9 is using the same language to reflect the Israel of God. All those who profess to be believers. All of these folks. And he says, as the clay is in the potter's hand, God says, So are you in my hand. So are you in my hand. Look what he says. And again, he's not being hyperbolic. He's saying that he says, he gives this metaphor of the potter and the clay and what is formed by the potter with the clay. And when it's marred, he tosses it out. He makes a new vessel that is more commensurate with what he desires from a glory standpoint. But God says to us through Jeremiah that we are in the potter's hand. He's the potter, and he does so with us as he sees fit. Doesn't matter if we're a believer or an unbeliever. Whatever we are, whatever we end up, however things are dealt with us, whatever lot in life and lot after life is, was designed and ordered by God. Everything that he has fashioned and framed for himself, it was for his purpose, as my brother Joseph correctly states. Let me read a few more verses in Jeremiah before I go to the panel and get your opening remarks. In Jeremiah chapter 19, verse 1, Jeremiah says, Thus says the Lord, Go and get a potter's earthen bottle, and take the ancient, and take of the ancients of the people, and of the ancients of the priests. And then he goes on to verse 10, and it says, Then shall you break the bottle in the sight of men that go with you. Verse 11. And this is what you will say to them, Thus says the Lord of hosts, even so I will break this people and this city as one breaks a potter's vessel that cannot be made. Listen, he says, I will break this people in this city as one that breaks a potter's vessel that cannot be made whole again, cannot be made whole again. And they shall bury them in Tophet, and there will be no place to bury. Tophet is an early reference from which we get our understanding of the lake of fire, hell itself. And Jeremiah here says, He says, Thus says the Lord of hosts, even so I will break this people and this city as one breaks a potter's vessel that cannot be made whole again. And this should inspire fear. If you do not know Christ, if you have not closed in with Christ, this is one of these verses that should that should incite fear. It should elicit fear in your soul. If you don't know Christ, you need to tremble and shake within your soul when you hear these words. A broken potter's vessel that cannot be made whole again. This is the reprobate. A broken piece of pottery, a marred vessel, shattered and broken, that cannot be made whole again. The breaking of the pottery's vessel, it symbolizes judgment from God. But not just any type of judgment, but an irreversible judgment that once leveled, once rendered, can never be undone. And this is what a reprobate is a marred vessel, a broken vessel that has nothing that it can do to be made pleasing to the potter. Nothing at all. So I'll break here for a second and give people on the panel an opportunity to weigh in on what has been said so far before I move on to talk about some more supporting imagery of the potter and the clutch.