LIVE: "Have You An Arm Like God?" (Job 40/41), Part 2/5

God doesn’t answer Job with a pep talk. He answers with weight. Job 40 puts a mirror in front of our pride and asks a terrifyingly simple question: can you do what only God can do, like bring down the proud, judge the wicked perfectly, and rule the world with a clean hand? We sit in that tension and talk about what God is really doing when he confronts Job, not to crush him, but to pull him back into truth about who God is and who we are.

That leads straight into one of the most argued topics in Christian theology: can a believer lose salvation? We walk through Adam’s original fallibility, why “Jesus gave you the same chance Adam had” sounds plausible, and why it quietly shifts the burden back onto you. Along the way we dig into substitutionary atonement, imputed righteousness, and the claim that Christ bears all sin past, present, and future. If that’s true, what sin is left to condemn someone who is truly in Christ, and what does it say about the cross if salvation can be undone?

We also call out the soft slogans that reshape God into a safe, human-sized figure: “let go and let God,” “God is a gentleman,” and the habit of treating doctrine like trivia. Job’s story warns us about filling God’s silence with assumptions, and it invites a more reverent, serious faith rooted in God’s sovereignty rather than our self-confidence. If this conversation sharpens you, share it with a friend, subscribe for more, and leave a review with the biggest question it raised for you.

Transcript

God Humbles Human Pride

SPEAKER_03 0:00

You behold everyone that is proud and bring him low. You, Job, look upon look on everyone that is proud and bring him low. God is telling Job to do things that only God can do. And he says, and you, Job, you tread down the wicked in their place, and you hide them in the dust together, and you bind their faces in secret. And when you do all these things, then I will confess unto you that your that you that your own right hand can save you. God isn't telling Job these things to do these things because it's in his capacity to do it. No, he's showing Job, he's trying to lead Job to an understanding that he can't do these things.

Can You Do What God Does

SPEAKER_03 0:44

And this is what happens when you deal with these people who believe that, oh well, when you come to Christ, you're saved. But now it's up to you to maintain your salvation and to be obedient. How can I be obedient if I wasn't able to be obedient before coming to Christ? My brother Pat and I were talking earlier today, and the conversation, part of the conversation was around this issue, which is which is that when it when when when Adam was made, he was made upright and perfect. But he was also made infallible, which means that he had the ability to fall. He could fall. In the day, when it happens, implying that it's going to happen as we know it all it did happen. We know that it did happen. That's why we're in the situation we're in right now, needing the righteousness of Christ and needing the act of obedience of Christ to be imputed to our account in order that we might be reconciled with the Most High. But you have Christians today who believe that they can be saved by that substitutionary atonement of the Lord Jesus Christ, and they still believe that even after that has happened, that there's still something that is in them that they can or must do in order to stay saved. So essentially, what they're saying in this action and in this particular brand of doctrine is that Christ died to restore you to the condition as an individual that Adam was representing all of mankind. In other words, Jesus died to give you the same chance he gave Adam. In which case, if a person can be saved and their obedience, their own personal act of obedience after having been saved is required in order to stay saved, then what is the difference between you now and Adam if you can lose your salvation? Because isn't that what Adam lost? Isn't that what Adam did? Think about it. Jesus didn't die to just make you to bring you to the place where Adam was, where you are made perfect at the after believing in Christ, made righteous, made upright, but not but you you can still fall if you do this and do this and do that. How are you different than Adam? And here's the thing here's the kicker. Because all these people that believe that they can lose their salvation after having come into Christ, they believe they're going to do and succeed what Adam failed. That's the horror of this whole idea. They believe they're gonna do what Adam could not do, which is to be justified before God through their own effort. Jesus Christ did not go to the cross to put us in the same condition that Adam was in, which was to be still in a condition of fallibility. Christ died to make us infallible. His righteous, his righteousness makes us infallible before God. We cannot sin before God to the degree that we lose our salvation. Because even that sin that we yet commit after having been saved, those sins are what Christ died to remove. All of our sin was put upon him. And when the Bible tells us that the that the that the sin of his people was laid upon him, it's not talking about some of the sins. It was talking about all of the sins, not just the past or the present sin or the sin up to the time you believe, but it's talking about all the sin that separates God from man. Past, present, and future. They're lying to you. It's a lie. When Christ died on the cross, he took with him to that tomb all of your sin. All of it. And when Christ imputed upon his resurrection his righteousness to your account, guess what? He gave you all of his righteousness that is required for reconciliation to the Father. So I want to ask all of you people, the clowns out there who are telling people they can lose their salvation, what I want to know is for what sin can you be condemned for after having come to Christ if you believe that he took all your sin upon him, number one, and number two, if all of his righteousness was put to your account. Because if you can still fall from grace and lose your salvation, then something happened that was ineffectual in the work that Christ did. So it's a combination of either you did not, even either that Christ did not take all your sin upon him when he died and went into that tomb, andor he did not impute to you all of the requisite righteousness needed to be reconciled to God. That's what these people need to answer.

Can Salvation Be Lost

SPEAKER_03 7:33

That's what they need to answer. Brother Pat and then Jeffrey.

SPEAKER_01 7:40

Wow. I'm old enough to have seen Kobe Bryant play. I don't I don't know if you're a basketball fan, Jonathan, but when I was a kid, Kobe Bryant played for the Lakers, and he was a great player.

SPEAKER_02 7:52

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 7:53

And when you watch him play, there was something that would happen every once in a while where if he hit his th first three or four shots, you knew it was over. Because when he's on one and he's dealing, there's no person on earth that can defend him, and there's no team on earth, and he can drop 40 on anyone.

SPEAKER_00 8:13

Right.

SPEAKER_01 8:14

That's what you're doing tonight. So I know this is gonna be a great study because you're on one, you are in your bag, and you are you are dealing tonight, man. So it's good to it's good to hear you you're bringing the fire tonight. You know, Jonathan, I want to bring up something else that occurs to me. A

Why Doctrine Actually Matters

SPEAKER_01 8:32

lot of times I think that as Christians, we don't take serious the importance of doctrine. And I it's like, oh well, you know, it it's good to try to get better at your doctrine, but what's the big deal? Why is it is it really that big of a deal? Is it worth causing problems?

SPEAKER_02 8:52

Right.

SPEAKER_01 8:53

Is it worth like, shouldn't we compromise for or maybe stay quiet for the sake of unity? Well, this passage right here gives you an insight into how important it is to God.

SPEAKER_03 9:08

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 9:08

Okay? You need to care about what God thinks because Job, I'm gonna tell you right now, we've been through this whole how how many months have we been studying this this book, Jonathan?

SPEAKER_03 9:18

Since November, so it's been about six months.

SPEAKER_01 9:22

About six months, and we've seen that Job is 99% correct on everything. Everything and yet, and that being said, this 1% is a huge deal to God. So we must speak rightly about him. And let me just say one last thing, if you don't mind, Jonathan. Go for it. This is why reformed theology is important. Because what you're gonna run to into in doctrine is the choice between between taking man's side or taking God's side, right? And I want you to consider that Job only took man's side in one little area, just one area, and it was in defending himself. Seems really small, right? Not a big deal. No, it's a big deal. Big deal. You must take God's side.

SPEAKER_02 10:26

Right.

SPEAKER_01 10:27

Because if you don't, what is it that God says to Job? Job, you don't know what you're talking about.

SPEAKER_03 10:34

Right.

SPEAKER_01 10:35

Right? Amen,

When God Is Silent

SPEAKER_01 10:36

brother.

SPEAKER_03 10:37

You know, it it's like you know, it's like we've we talked before, I've said before, is that man thinks that when look at it this way. When you anybody here can try this. If you go to any other person's live, anybody's live, even this one, and when if there's a conversation that is being had, what happens the moment there's a moment of silence? Somebody feels the need to fill it. There was there is always at least that one person who, when silence happens, if there's the slightest break in the conversation, people feel the need to fill it. This is what Job was doing. God was silent, and Job felt the need to fill in the blanks, to fill in that quiet space. And so, and so and what ends up happening, he started, he began conjecturing. Conjecturing. Since God wasn't saying anything, Job started making assumptions about God. And this is why in the beginning of verse 8, he says to Job, will you disannul my judgment? See, and and and and so for God to say that about Job by asking that question to Job, we can safely assume that God believes, believes, God knows that Job was doing that very thing, disannulling God's judgment, rendering God's judgment ineffective. And this is a problem. Just because God is silent doesn't give us a right to fill in the blanks as to what he's doing and how he does it. Questioning his motivations, questioning why things didn't happen in a timely manner. We get used to having things a certain way, and and we believe that that's the way it should always happen.

The Trap Of Built Expectations

SPEAKER_03 13:13

It's sort of like this. This is very human when you look at it this way. It's a very human way of thinking. So it's like all of us understand, most of us have been married, and if you haven't, you probably will be. And sometimes you can have a situation where your husband or your wife, depending on who's listening, will say, Oh, you know what, honey, it would be really great if you could do this. Or let me take it a step, let me take it a step further. You do something without being asked, a good thing you do. Maybe you decide you're gonna, you know, clean the kitchen sink or you're gonna clean the bathroom or you're gonna cut the grass or whatever it is. And then your spouse goes, Oh, that's really great. That's really great, that's really cool. I'm so glad you did it. But once you do it, now it becomes your job. Now it becomes a thing you must do all the time. You know, and so it it that's right, sister, it's the expectations that are now built into it. Job got used to God working with him in a certain way. Now Job deals with this major affliction that he's dealing with, which is definitely new, dealt with tremendous loss, and then on top of that, God is silent. And see, Job got used to dealing with God. However, God was communicating with Job, which we can assume was direct in some kind of way. Job got used to it. He got used to it. When it wasn't happening, he he became disgruntled. Brother Jeffrey, and then Sean.

God’s Commands Are Not Optional

SPEAKER_02 15:03

Jonathan, with what God is telling Job here, you have to wonder in Job's mind, I mean, the way that God is just setting him straight as to I am God, you are the servant. You have to be wondering, possibly in the back of Job's mind, you know, maybe I'm fortunate that what has happened to me is all that has happened to me. You know, I mean, it's just like yeah, I I've so misrepresented God and misunderstood him that I'm maybe I'm fortunate that what has happened so far is all that God has allowed to happen to me. And you said something earlier, Jonathan, that was very, very true. When God tells us to do something, we as people think we have a choice. We don't. We don't. Somebody would say, Well, where's your proof of that, Jeffrey? Ask Jonas. What did God tell him to do? Get on a ship, go to Nineveh, go there and preach. Jonas responds, ask, no thanks. I'm gonna get on another ship and head over to Tarsus. We know the rest of that story. You know, he gets dropped overseas, swallowed up with a fish, belched out on the beach at Nineveh, and he does what God ultimately told him to do. That's right. How many times, Jonathan, is it like that with us? God tells us to do something, meaning he's going to empower us to do it. We think, well, you know, maybe that's not such a great idea. Something goes horribly wrong because we didn't obey, then we have to go to God for grace and mercy, and then we wind up doing it anyway. Yeah, brother. And so I think this is also where my point is, I think this is also where exactly Job is going with what God is telling him here. You've been through a lot. I understand that, but there's things here I want you to see.

unknown 17:06

Right.

SPEAKER_02 17:06

You misjudge me in your complaining. Okay. So here am I. Follow me. Amen, brother.

SPEAKER_03 17:12

Absolutely. Sister Sean.

Lip Service Versus Real Sovereignty

SPEAKER_03 17:15

Go ahead, sister.

SPEAKER_00 17:16

Yeah, I was just looking at Joe 40 and 9 and him asking Joe, has you have an arm like God? And just looking at God's overall response, it reminded me of 2 Timothy 3 and 5. And it says having a form of godliness but denying the power of the mother. Looking at this response, God is not so much Joe doing that, but God is showing that you can't acknowledge me as God but deny my power.

SPEAKER_03 17:42

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 17:43

And you know, because there's a quote by Marcy Spring, and he says that most Christians salute the sovereignty of God, but believe in the sovereignty of man. And you can do this subconsciously.

SPEAKER_03 17:58

Yes. Amen.

SPEAKER_00 17:59

And so God is literally showing Joe, where were you? And can you do this? Are you capable? You have no power ultimately. Because if I'm not sovereign, then I'm not God. But we know what's to be true.

SPEAKER_03 18:13

Amen, sister. I I I definitely cannot say it better than what you just said, and can't say it better than R.C. Spro on that one. That's an excellent statement. Because you're right, it's lip service. It's lip service. And and and that's a very, very astute statement, and and and absolutely 100% true. Absolutely true. And and this is how man can be. I I've been there and you know, probably go there again. I hope not. But I mean, I'm just saying, this is this is this is what's like Kai says, it's all around us. It's ever it's everywhere. But this is this is Christianity in general today. It really is. It really is. And God

Dead In Sin And Needing Rescue

SPEAKER_03 19:04

is going, and God is pointing out here in these in these chapters since he started in 38, he's starting to say, listen, we're talking about little things here that you man can't control. Little things. You can't control the animals that I gave you the right to have lordship over. You couldn't control them. And the reason why is because you can't control yourself. So if you can't control the and the creation that I gave you, if you can't control yourself, how are you going to find yourself fit to be in a place to disannul my judgment? Do you, Job, think that you can do what I do? It's crazy. But believe it or not, there are men that believe they can do what only God can do. If man is born dead in sin and trespasses, the only way he can be saved is if God does it all. Because you are dead. There is nothing in you. You are in bondage to sin. Which means that the only way to come out of that bondage is if someone else releases you. It's the only way. But modern Christianity wants to tell you, no, it's not the only way. It's not even the way. You believe, many of you, not people here, but people believe that salvation is in their hand to effect. And that is a foolish, foolish error on their part. And is going to have eternal consequences for the greater part of those who call themselves Christians. Just is. And we have to be careful to guard our own hearts against the notion that there's anything that we contribute or cooperate with God in order to in order to have this so great of salvation that we have. Brother Pat, go ahead.

Genie God Versus Christ The King

SPEAKER_01 21:29

You know, a lot of times when I hear people talk about God, I wonder what they even mean about God. Because when you hear them talk about God, what they're talking about is a cosmic force that gives them everything they want and eventually will make all their dreams come true. That's what they want. Right? Right, right. But they don't want the person of God. They don't want the person of Jesus, they don't want a king to rule over them. No desire for that. There's no desire. Be wary of that. Be wary of that. Because the God of the Bible is not a cosmic unicorn or genie in the sky catering to your desires, and just he can't wait until the day, the day of judgment. If you think that that's just the day where he tells you how great you are and all your dreams come true. No, you need to be in Christ. You don't get any of those blessings of Christ. Like was said earlier, the the RC sproll quote, without Christ. The benefits of Christ only come and are found in the person of Christ. You can't have one without the other.

SPEAKER_03 22:52

No, you can't. You can't have one without the other.

The Problem With “Let Go”

SPEAKER_03 22:55

And I'll tell you something, this leads me to this idea of something that people say very often. And I understand what people are saying, but I think that we need to be very careful with our use of words and how we put them together and frame a perspective in the minds of others as it pertains to God. And one of the ones that I hate, I mean, I really hate, is when people say, let go and let God. I cannot tell you how much of a chill that sends in my spine when I hear that nonsense and how much I want to lash out. Let go and let God. Think about that for a second. Let God, what are you going to let God do that he doesn't do at will, if he so pleases? See, you don't, like Sister Sean says, you cannot let God, let God do anything. And this is this, but this is Christianity today. Let go, let God. You will see this being the theme in most pulpits today. Two things. Do what thou wilt and let go and let God. And I hate to use the cliche that is predominant today by asking the question, but I have to. What does that mean? When you say, when somebody says to you, let go and let God, ask them what that means. What does that mean to you when you say that? Because letting is to allow. God is telling Job, this is not how I function. You don't let me do anything. I do whatsoever it is I please in this creation that I may, I own you. I own the righteous and I own the wicked. It's all mine. Oh, you say you don't like it. What does Paul say in Romans 9 20? Who are you, O man, to reply against God? Shall the thing formed say to him who formed it, Why have you made me this way? You didn't let God make you. You didn't let God save you. You didn't let God judge you. We don't let God do anything. He is the creator, and he does whatsoever he pleases with his creation, which we all are. And this is what God is explaining to Job. Go ahead, brother Pat.

SPEAKER_01 26:16

I

Why “God Is A Gentleman” Fails

SPEAKER_01 26:17

have a question for you about this specific thing that you're talking about. One of the most popular lines you hear almost every modern preacher, at some point, you'll hear the line, God is a gentleman. Right? And they'll use the path, they'll use the verse in Revelation to the letter of the churches, Behold, I stand at the door and knock. And they say, God, God isn't, God never intercedes. Isn't saying God is a gentleman the same thing as saying God isn't God? Isn't that what that really means, Jonathan?

SPEAKER_03 26:53

It is. And it is bringing God down to the can to the state of man. It's making God like man. It's like like so, Brother Pat, I know exactly what you're saying. It's so annoying. It's like, you know, it's like this whole attitude that so many Christians have. Oh, he's my he's my friend. He understands why I do the things that I do. He's my homie. He's my boy. He's my road dog. This is how people, Christians, talk about the Almighty. This is how they talk about the Almighty. Oh, God has a sense of humor. When the only time you ever hear God, you ever read in the scriptures about God laughing, it is when he's condemning the wicked. When he's putting the mockers in the scorners to their shame. That is the only time you ever hear any references to God laughing. Is when he is laughing at the calamity of the wicked. Think about that for a second. I challenge anyone here to prove me wrong on this issue. I wouldn't say it if I couldn't defend it. But that is the only time you ever see a reference to God's laughter. You go do a study on God's laughter. When he laughs, you will only find him laughing at the wicked when their condemnation comes.

SPEAKER_01 28:52

Doesn't sound very gentlemanly.

SPEAKER_03 28:55

Not at all. And that whole idea, like you said, brother Pat, of this whole gentleman idea is this idea that man, that God has to function that God functions under this umbrella of fairness that men have created. A gentleman would do this. No gentleman is human. God is not human. He is something very different. He's our creator. He's

Reverence, Judgment, And Humility

SPEAKER_03 29:30

our governor. He's our ruler, our king, and our lord. The deceived and the deceiver belong to him as well. We got that from this very book. The deceived and the deceiver both belong to God. Not just the Christian, but the deceived and the deceiver, they belong to him. God is going to laugh at the sinner who rejects him ultimately. He is going to mock the mocker. He is going to scorn the one who scorns. He is going to condemn those who in their hearts condemn him and who refuse to submit to him in all humility. Like we see Job right here, putting his hands over his mouth and saying, Lord, I cannot speak. Why? Because I am vile. I am a wretch. I have been disobedient to my Lord. I have besmirched his character. And now, Lord, I must be silent. Now that you speak, I must keep my mouth shut. There's nothing I can say. There's nothing I can do. I have no retort. I have no rebuttal. I have shown that I am a shallow human being. When it comes to relating to my God, I realize that I have overstepped the bounds of humility. I have overstated my case in such a way that I taken away from your sovereignty in my understanding. And now you are showing me, Lord, how much of a wretch I really truly am. See, this is what a Christian really believes. And serving God is not a party. It's serious business. And too many Christians are overly unserious about it. Oh, wretched man that I am. Sister Sean says, that's what we are. Wretches. Violent. If you want to be, if you want to draw closer to God, then recognize more than you knew this morning about what you are before God, which is a wretch. Vile. A worm and no man. I'm sorry that I'm not appealing to the doctrine of the power of positive thinking. If you want that, go read Norman Vincent Peel. Go listen to Joel Olstein. This is some of these people. But if you really want to know how great and holy and majestic God is, throw yourself into the dust. Put your face down and rest in awe. And knowing that you are a vile, wretched sinner, that God has made alive. And to extol all of his glories in your own heart and from your mouth in the ears of others, that they may come to the same belief and to trust in the same God with the same reverence that God said Job had for him.

Turning Toward Behemoth

SPEAKER_03 34:19

Job forty, verse 15. God says to Job, Behold now Behemoth, a creature on earth.