LIVE: Introduction to the Letter to the Romans (Part 3/4)

If you’ve ever thought, “I’m a good person, so I must be fine with God,” Romans has a way of taking that belief apart with terrifying clarity and surprising hope. We sit down and wrestle with the hard-edged claims of Scripture: none righteous, none who does good, none who seeks after God, and what those words mean for how we talk about salvation, free will, and grace.

We trace the difference between God’s goodness as the standard and our moral goodness as something that can never justify us before a holy God. Along the way we connect Romans 3, Romans 1, Ephesians 2, John 10, and John 15 to a single theme: the problem is not that we are merely hurt, it’s that we are spiritually dead. That changes everything. If we’re dead in sin, then salvation must be resurrection, regeneration, and imputed righteousness, not self-improvement or religious performance.

We also talk about why this truth feels so freeing once it finally lands, why “deconstructing Christianity” often reveals attachment to a system instead of love for Christ, and why perseverance is ultimately God’s work in us, not our grip on Him. If you want a clearer, more honest foundation for reading the book of Romans, this conversation sets the stage.

Subscribe for the Romans study ahead, share this with a friend who’s stuck in works-based anxiety, and leave a review with the verse that first shook you awake.

Transcript

Blurry Eyes And God’s Goodness

SPEAKER_00 0:00

A newborn baby, your eyes become less and less blurry as you study the word of God.

SPEAKER_05 0:09

Amen, sister. I'm gonna I'm gonna take the words of I think it was our Lord who said, Flesh and blood has not revealed that to you, sister. Flesh and blood has not revealed that to you. You said a truth that only God could have taught you. Sister Mariah, go ahead.

SPEAKER_04 0:27

Yeah, I think that sometimes it's difficult for there are some people who do get this right away, and there's some some of us who it takes much longer to receive such a thing. And I think that's because we can't really, or most people don't distinguish the the goodness of God and the perfection of God, and us doing good things here, like and and not understanding that it is still by the grace and the goodness of God that we are even, or atheists are even allowed to do this tablet of good that that they do, you know. So they I don't think they'd establish the difference between the the moral goodness that is had that comes from God and the standard of goodness that comes from God, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_05 1:21

A lot of sense. Makes a lot of sense. Makes a lot of sense. Sister Lisa, go ahead. And then Meg.

SPEAKER_03 1:28

Yeah, I was just gonna kind of go on on the on the back of Mariah. I remember as a new believer, it didn't occur to me. Well, you know, I'm just starting to read scripture and it and it it doesn't really hit that it is God. And so I see a lot of that. A lot of the new believer, I don't think it's necessarily I don't even know how to put it. You know how I I am with my words. I fumble over my words. Um when I did realize that it's all God, it's so freeing, it sets you free. Because when you think that you're the one who made the right decision, you also think that you're the one who has to be good and follow the rules and do all these other things that you're you're you're basically placing yourself back under the law, not even realizing it. You're placing yourself and and believing in works-based gospel, but it's it's by the grace of God and in his time, it is in his time that he shows it to you. And once he shows it to you, everything becomes so clear. It is like like Savannah was saying, a baby, you're looking through these filtered eyes, blurry filtered eyes, and and you're just happy to be where you are. You want to learn all the things, but when you realize and you see that it is God who draws you, it is the Father who draws you, who you are his elect, and Christ who redeems you, and the Holy Spirit who sanctifies you. And and it it's really oh my goodness, it just sets you free. It's such a beautiful thing. And I I I I think I you know, I just I pray anybody that is listening and who disagrees, just give it time, keep reading and look, because when your eyes become open, it's glorious. It's glorious, and you and oh my goodness, it's not prideful. Some people will say it's prideful to believe, you know, you can't lose it and you have to you must endure to the end. Well, it's not by our strength that we're enduring anything, it's it's in our weakness he is strong, and he is the one who will get us through what we need to. Oh my goodness, it's so beautiful.

unknown 4:02

Thank you.

SPEAKER_05 4:03

You keep telling it, sister. You keep telling it. Oh Sister Meg and then Sean.

Grace That Sets You Free

SPEAKER_06 4:10

Man, what you know, I I to meditate on those, on just just these two verses as we go into Romans. Um Romans chapter 3, verse 10, it says, There is none righteous, no not one. And in 12 it says, There is none that doeth good, no not one. There's none that seek after God, but still in the flesh, humanity tries to rise up and think opposite of what the scripture is telling you, because this is what the flesh does. So if if if we say that no one seeks after God, does that mean that there's one that can rise up and seek after him? But what we understand is our best works cannot justify us before a holy God because sin corrupts the human heart, which is why it is stony. And if if you're looking in the terms of salvation, the question would be can a heart of stone believe? The answer is no. You are dead, and the only way that one becomes alive is if the life giver himself gives you life. Because he says that he, Jesus said it in what is it, John chapter 10, verse 26, I give eternal life. He is the giver of eternal life, and that there is no good. So one who is spiritually dead cannot produce in their own righteousness, nor of themselves saving righteousness apart from God's grace, because that righteousness is the Lord's and it is imputed to us. So when he says in John chapter 15, apart from me you can do nothing, he means it. And see, this is what we need to understand, I feel, going into Romans is that there I was just telling Pat this on the phone before he went to study. Jesus said something in Matthew chapter 4 that was very important. It says, Man shall not live on bread and bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth from the mouth of God. And so when we're going through Romans, let's take this into account and understand that every single word that is said in the Word of God, it has to be absorbed and listened to and believed. Right, it has to be believed, you guys. This is the whole thing. So, Mariah, you didn't set me off with that because it's so true, because God is good and there is no goodness outside of him. So, just like it says in scripture, there's a way that seems right to a man, but the end thereof leads to death. So, in a in the man's mind, there is a way that seems right, but in that way, it leads to death. And so, man, yeah, I just wanted to say that I could talk forever, but yeah.

SPEAKER_05 7:20

You man, sister, you know you you said nothing but truth there, nothing but truth. Sister Sean and then Brian.

SPEAKER_07 7:27

Sister Meg said some wonderful things specifically when she said the uh there is none that do it good. Uh recently I I heard somebody say that man is not totally depraved, but severely injured. And I I heard that. And see, what you do is when you say that man is severely injured, what you say is that you're not dead.

unknown 7:49

Right.

SPEAKER_07 7:50

You're basically saying you're not dead. You're just severely, but no, we are dead. Outside of Christ, you are dead. Ephesians 2, you have to be quickened. So to say that man is just simply severely injured, no, we're totally depraved. And Romans 1 shows us this, and so people will always try to point back to there is some human goodness. No, there's not nothing good outside of God. Even when

Romans 3 And Human Inability

SPEAKER_07 8:20

a person does good that doesn't believe, every morally good action ultimately traces back to him. Right. And so when I heard that, I was like, what? That really baffled me. Severely injured. That sounds good, but you know, the fact of the matter is you're dead without him.

SPEAKER_05 8:37

Right. And this this and this is this is what Paul goes through great pains to explain. I mean, he he really goes through the first six chapters trying to make people understand that. And so, and and and so, and this is what people still wrestle with today. And they're and they're the and the greater part of Christianity doesn't realize this. The greater part of Christianity doesn't understand this. And so it's something that we we have to do what we can to make sure the world doesn't get away without hearing these truths as Paul laid them out. Brother Brian and then Meg.

SPEAKER_01 9:20

Well, see, it's like, why do we even need the first six chapters of Romans, Brother Jonathan, like you're talking about? Why do we need that layout to us? Well, because there's this allure of the world. I mean, we're talking about, you know, Romans or America. It gives us, for one, it's God's blessing and grace that He even allows us governments and systems to pop up that you know we can have air conditioning and water and electricity and all these different things. But what happens is we start doing exactly what the first chapter of Romans says. We start worshiping the create creature instead of the creator where it comes from.

SPEAKER_05 10:02

Amen, brother.

SPEAKER_01 10:04

That right there is we start putting our trust in that. And we need to have the first six chapters to bring us back to realization that even though those things can give comfort to our flesh while we're in this body, it can't give nothing for the spirit and the soul and what we were created for and what is so much needed. You heard Sister Lisa talking about how freeing this is, and we all know how true that is. It's not just doctrine and theology that we're learning, people. We're learning who God is. It's feeding our soul, yes, what we were created for. This is what it's really about. You start getting to know who God is, right? That's what's so freeing and so joyful. No matter what you're going through, you just cling to that, like it's nothing that we can explain. So, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 11:01

Amen. And I like what you said about the you know, you made the reference to them exchanging the knowledge of God for idolatry, basically, for for the for for the worship of the creature and cre in the creation and man's will and all these kind of things. But but when you when you when we take a careful examination, which we're going to do, God says, you know, Paul says that they exchanged the knowledge of God for the worship of the creation of the creature rather than the creator. So God assumes, or Paul assumes that God assumes that they had a knowledge of God to begin with. And this is why I told people there is no such thing as an atheist. There is no such thing as an atheist. Because we're told in the very opening book chapters of Romans that that they exchanged the truth of God for a lie. They decided to, you know, to let go of the knowledge of God in order to worship the Creator. So the assumption is that they have a knowledge of God. And Paul also says that they suppress the truth by their unrighteousness. You can't suppress what you're not aware of. And so this is an important fact. So I'm glad you brought that up, Brian, because this is what we're going to really try to flesh out as we go on and really puts some a lot of meat on the on the bones of where we are right now on that on that subject. So I think it's a great point. Sister Mayor.

SPEAKER_06 12:45

Sean, you you had mentioned something earlier that I wanted to back you up in, but this go, what you stated when you were talking about man, you know, being like spiritually sick, right? It's it's impossible. Because if we go back to Genesis

Dead Not Sin Sick

SPEAKER_06 13:00

2, verse 17, it says, But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it. For in the day that thou eatest, thou shalt surely die. Well, when you look this up in the Hebrew, it gives it even more meaning. It says, Dying, you will die. That's what it means in the Hebrew. That's exactly right. It is so much more powerful. It's like not only are you dead, you are dead, dead.

SPEAKER_05 13:28

Right.

SPEAKER_06 13:28

And like necros. And so when we see that in the significance of Lazarus, too, because according to Jewish tradition, after the third day, you're dead. But he tarried until the fourth. So just like this was being talked and talked about in Genesis, we see it in Lazarus because on the fourth day, as the Father told him, tarry. He tarried on the fourth. So Lazarus was just not dead. Lazarus was dead, dead.

SPEAKER_05 13:59

Yeah. And not only was he dead dead, but it was a prerequisite for life. Death is the prerequisite for life. You can't be given life unless you're dead. And so this is, and and and so, and these words are so plain in scripture that is beyond the pale how those who say they are Christian can't grasp this. But this is why preaching must continue. Sister Sean and then Brian.

SPEAKER_07 14:42

I like the way you said that. Dead, dead. A lot of people don't realize that without God, you are simply existing. You can travel, you can go to do whatever your hobbies, but you are simply existing without God. People don't understand that your soul is dead, the very essence of you. Right. Who you are outside of this shell, you are dead. Right. And so without him, there is no life.

SPEAKER_05 15:10

People, we on it, we're on the A game tonight. Brother Brian, go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 15:15

Sister Meg done got me fired up.

SPEAKER_05 15:18

He does that.

SPEAKER_01 15:20

Yeah, the point that she was talking about with Genesis. I mean, it's fantastic. The tree of knowledge, good and evil. What is that tree? It's us judging what is good and evil on our own. We get that knowledge. We're judging what good and evil is from our own experience instead of from what God says is right and wrong. So what we have to die to is that tree of what we think is good. That's why you hear so many people when they talk about, well, I'm a good person. I did this, I did that. They think by that tree they're gonna get into heaven. Right. No, you have to die to that and have the law of God. That's why the book of Romans, he starts it perfect. I gotta give you the law of God to show you that you're totally depraved, that you're guilty. Let's start with that tree first and die to that. Before I can convince you that you need a savior.

SPEAKER_05 16:15

Amen. And Meg is right. When you know, we all ate that fruit and and and we all died because of it. And so, and you're right. That in that this depravity that we're that we're we are all emphasizing, because this is what we're talking about. We we are emphasizing that. And see, and see, man thinks that whatever life he thinks he has apart from God, he dreams that that is living. He fancies falsely that that is living. It is not living. Because anything that is separating you from the Holy One is death. It means you are dead, and only life can make you reconcile to God, and only He can provide that life. And again, that life presupposes death. Not sickness, but death. And so this is what we need to make sure we hit hard with people on and make sure that we don't let up until that soul understands that they are dead in sin and trespasses and can do nothing to live apart from a sovereign work of God working and fashioning that person within to become this new creature. And if you are just sin sick, then how can Paul say we are new creations? Because you can't be a new creation unless you were an old creation that was dead, Sister Meg, and then Lisa.

SPEAKER_06 17:51

You know, Sella said in the comments, she said, We are all dead in sin from the moment we knew sin. So I just want to bring something to light in that, you know, the sin nature, right? We're talking about a sin nature here. So we know that the will is attached to the nature. So the sin nature is not only what you do, it's who you are. So, so, so in that sin nature that this will

Eden Lazarus And New Creation

SPEAKER_06 18:20

is tied to, in that nature, you are not going to choose the things of God. Yeah, if if humanity wants a choice so bad, here you go. I'll give it to you. You do, you can choose as much sin as you want, right? Because that's all you're gonna do. Because you it and that's what you said, brother Jonathan, about being a new creation. It the new creation that we are is something that was never created before. We're not an improved Adam here, okay? Adam was not a co-heir with Christ, we are, and so when we're when we're talking about this, it's so important to understand that when we're when we receive salvation, we're not a new and improved Adam. No, Adam was not a co-heir with Christ. We are, and so and and and so this is why we see the beauty in the fall. Because if the if it was, if the fall didn't happen, we would never be co-heirs with Christ. We would be simply an improved Adam. But now we have been adopted as sons and daughters into the family of God where Adam never was.

SPEAKER_05 19:37

Amen. You you listen, you can't take a bucket of a car and change the rims and think you have a new car. That's what that's that's what that's like. You think you can make modifications and make and that makes you new. It doesn't. You still got a junker of a car. Changing the rims is not gonna make it a new car. And and so this idea that people have is fiction, is complete, utter fiction. Sister Lisa, go ahead.

SPEAKER_03 20:09

Well, I was just gonna give an example to slam home what Meg um Sister Meg just said, that sin isn't the way what we choose, it is who we are. Anyone who has raised a child, and especially if you're born again, I didn't notice this before I was born again. But now as a grandma, I look at my sweet, sweet little baby granddaughters. And if I tell them, if you put a cookie, cookie jar in front of them and say, Hey, listen, we're gonna have this cookie after dinner, don't have any of that, and walk away, they're gonna take that cookie because their flesh wants that cookie, they're gonna take it, they're gonna have the crumbs all around their lips. And when you come back in, you're gonna say, Did you have a cookie when grandma told you not to have that cookie? No, I didn't have that cookie. So they're not, they're only they're gonna steal and they're gonna lie right too, right in front of me. And it is who they are, you know, and I wouldn't have known, you know, I used to think that is so cute, it's still sweet, you know, and it it would just remind me that what God says about that we are vipers and diapers. Vipers and vipers, you know, it is it is true, it is our fallen nature, and it is that's where we come in as godly parents, because that is just the perfect example. You know, did you do something so simple innocent? Did you take that cookie when I said no? And they will take it to their grave, I didn't have it. They've got chocolate on their face, it's all you could, you know, and it's it's amazing to me. So, I mean, anyone who doesn't yet believe that we're born depressed. Please look at a small child and the way they behave. You can watch them hit another child. Did you just hit your brother? No. I just saw you do it. I didn't do it. He hit me.

SPEAKER_05 22:14

Right. Absolutely. Sister Vanessa, what do you think? Oh, sorry. Were you done, Lisa?

SPEAKER_02 22:21

Yes, I am. All right. I'm just listening. I I agree with everything everybody says because it's the truth. I mean, we are depraved. I mean, no matter what anyone says, God is in charge of everything. He is the controller. And man is so depraved that he doesn't even understand who God is until God calls him.

SPEAKER_05 22:49

That's right. Absolutely. And see, in the and in this letter, the book of Romans, what happened, I see you, Meg. But what he but what Paul is writing to, the people he's writing to, he's writing to a gentile population that exemplifies thoroughly the consequences of what it means to suppress the truth. But then the Gentile population is, I mean the Jewish population is different. They they he's speaking to a people there that continuously demonstrate the insufficiency of their external privileges apart from sin. And this is the this is the climate, the mint the moral climate of these of the of both these bodies of people that he is addressing. And so this this epistle that Paul writes, it it it it it shows and it opens up to all hum all humanity, Jew and Gentile, that all of us are they all of us are under sin, all of us are guilty before God, all of us are completely and totally depraved, in spite of what our what this Armenian constituency likes to put forth as the truth, which it is not, that we are just sin sick.

Israel Inwardly And Promised Seed

SPEAKER_05 24:40

No, we are all dead. Sister Meg, go ahead. Megan O'Brien.

SPEAKER_06 24:52

So again, in this book, just like you said, Jonathan, both Jew and Greek are guilty. Now, if we think about Israel and we think about the the church, God's people, Israel is the flesh, and the spirit is the Israel of God. That's why he says, not all Israel is Israel, because a Jew, a true Jew, is one inwardly. That is a true Jew. And so all of this time when we're seeing Israel, it's the flesh. But wait a minute. What did the Lord say to Nicodemus? That which is flesh is flesh, Nicodemus, and that which is spirit is spirit. Jesus also said that the flesh profits nothing. So anything that we're trying to do to see in the flesh, it's going to profit and amount to nothing. So I think that's also a good approach as we go into Romans to truly understand that the Israel of God is a Jew who is one inwardly. We are children of Abraham by the promise. And who is the promise? The promise was made to Abraham's seed. And who is the seed? Christ. And so as we're going into this book, we have to understand these things because it's the only way that we're truly going to understand chapters even eight through 11, 9 through 11. And so I think that as we go through this book, like I'm so glad that you had this session just like this, Jonathan, because we're setting the stage for a wonderful, wonderful study. I'm so excited.

SPEAKER_05 26:48

Yeah, I am too. It's really a good one. Brother Brian, and then I want to hear from Melody.

SPEAKER_01 26:56

Yeah, I just wanted to say that, you know, I was talking earlier about how we trust in, you know, the governments and things like that for the flesh. But what is even more dangerous than that is what Paul just lays out so beautifully in this book is the people that trust in the religious systems. It's um we all know it's almost easier to talk to somebody that's lost, that's an atheist, that's never been raised in church, other than a church person who thinks they're saved and they're really lost.

SPEAKER_07 27:28

Right.

SPEAKER_01 27:29

Think about the scriptures. Who was really the ones that went after Jesus the hardest? Pilate wanted to let him go. But the Pharisees was saying kill him. Same thing with Paul. They didn't find no fault in the man. They was with willing to let him go, but the religious people wanted to kill him. It's going to be the same with us, folks. Right. We all know this. That's where we're going to get the biggest persecution from. Yep. The people that really don't like what Sister Meg was talking about, the promised seed, is people that's trusting in their good works to get them because they don't really believe in a promised seed. They think they are the promised seed. Right. Their own works and their own will and their own systems. And it's sometimes it's what they've been taught. Grandma and grandpa taught them that. They was raising all these church systems to teach that. Brother Johnson, you know, that's why I almost despise church people. I just do. Because they're our biggest enemy. They really are. And so, yeah, so just get ready for it because it's coming.

SPEAKER_05 28:37

Brother, I think you're right about this. And I'll tell you something. It's and you you have been instrumental in my taking a more serious look at this whole thing. And like I said, I've I've been working on something ever since we talked about that. And it's it's astounding the kind of things that you find. And I can't wait to go over that. And maybe we'll do that jointly one of these days soon. And I'll I will look forward to that. But you know, Paul here in this book, he's going to he wrote this letter in a setting and in a climate where the gospel of the justification of faith required a thorough exposition on the active side. So Paul gives this, he he he he lays out this exposition. This is what justification of faith is. And then he defends that uh case that he made. And and it really is bulletproof. It really is. You can't, there's no way to weasel yourself out of this unless you abandon all reason and rationale, which is what Christianity, unbelieving Christians, do. Now, Brother Brian was talking about the the the church at large, and I was talking to my brother Cos today, and we were talking about this, and that was and that was that apostasy, Christ said, was going to be prevalent, widely prevalent before his return, so much so that recognizing faith will be barely discernible on the earth. But apostasy is not something that is associated with those who deem themselves agnostic or atheist or even of other religious

Church Systems Apostasy And Perseverance

SPEAKER_05 30:50

sects, other religious groups. But apostasy is what those who call themselves Christian, or when those who are calling themselves Christians, when they fall away. In the last five years on this platform that I've been on this platform, and I can't believe it's been that long. How many times I can't tell you how many times, and I'm sure many of you have heard it just as much as I have, or perhaps even more, because a lot of you are on here more than I am. Christians who say I no longer believe, and now my my ministry is to deconstruct Christianity. And so this is now their ministry. They were not. That is a lie. Through and through, that is a lie. Anyone who conveys that is lying to you, lying to themselves, and lying to the world. Amen. Sister Melody, what do you think? And then Savannah after Melody.

SPEAKER_08 32:39

I'm sorry, what's the question?

SPEAKER_05 32:41

No, just what do you think? No, what do you think? Is what I'm asking.

SPEAKER_08 32:47

Yeah, as far as apostasy, are you talking about apostaty? Okay, yeah, I agree. And that's the thing. Like, you know, when they start saying that they were Christian, and they say that, you know, well, I did this, I did that.

SPEAKER_05 33:01

I think we lost you, sister.

SPEAKER_08 33:07

It's like people leave keep people leave Christian, people leave Christianity easily, but it's not easy to leave somebody that you love and that you've encountered. Like it's harder to walk away from somebody that you actually know. So it's like, yeah, you left a religion, but you if you actually knew Christ, you wouldn't have walked away from him. Like there's it's impossible to walk away from somebody who just loves you so much. So that's the problem. You didn't encounter Christ, you just practiced a religion.

SPEAKER_05 33:34

Right. And I and I think in addition to that, sister, to add to that, just because you leave home doesn't mean that your mother is not your mother anymore. Even if you despise your mother, even if you hate your mother or your father, just because you leave them doesn't make you any less their mother or father. That's impossible. You're you you don't you don't you're not your association with them has not changed. So a a Christian who has God as their father, even if they go astray, what did Christ say he would do? I'm going to go and get you. I'm gonna leave the rest of the family here for a minute. We're gonna park here along the road, and I'm going to get my child. And he's not asking for your permission to come get you. He's coming to get you and to bring you home where you belong. Because that's what a good parent does. You know, and you can't.

SPEAKER_08 34:35

And that's another thing with people. Oh, that's another thing with people who try to who try to stay saved. It's like they I don't think, I don't think they realize that, you know, in our own power and will, we would walk away. It's the Holy Spirit that keeps us to him because our flesh don't want anything to do with God. Even the only thing that keeps us with God is his spirit. So it's like you don't even have the power to keep yourself saved. You don't have the power to keep yourself walking with Christ. Like my I was talking about my favorite scripture today. This it's the one that talks about how God is the it holds us

Romans Next Steps And Excitement

SPEAKER_08 35:10

by our right hand, and you know, uh we don't have to be afraid. It's because of him and his love for us that keeps us with him.

SPEAKER_05 35:18

You're telling this because you're telling it. Amen. Sister Savannah, your thoughts.

SPEAKER_00 35:26

So I'm just really excited to the book of Romans and really, you know, dive deeper into it. It's like one of my favorite books because I think it just really, in my opinion, shows like God's character because he's a god of order, right?

unknown 35:47

Right.

SPEAKER_00 35:47

And he, you know, I just I just really like all the the covenant language and the legalistic terms in that sense. Because and it and I do believe that like Romans, if you really understand the entire book, it's going to give like a deeper meaning to the entire rest of the Bible. And I just think that, you know, that's beautiful.

SPEAKER_05 36:15

Amen, sister. Amen. So that you know, so now the other thing, and we don't have much further to go, a couple more points that I want to make, but but there there are also, in addition to what Sean said earlier about