Sin/Death on Adam VS Righteous/Life in Christ (Rom 5:12-16), Part 2/4

Death shows up everywhere, long before Sinai, long before any “rulebook” gets handed down. That’s where we start: Romans 5 says death reigned from Adam to Moses, and we slow down long enough to feel the force of it. If people died before the Mosaic Law, then the problem is bigger than breaking a posted command. We talk about conscience, creation, and why God is not fooled by technical loopholes, even when we try to excuse ourselves with “I didn’t know.” 

From there we move into the hard but honest heart of Christian theology: Adam as a representative head, and what it means to inherit a condition you didn’t personally choose. We use an inheritance and “courtroom” picture to make imputation and guilt feel concrete, then we turn the page to the better news. Christ is also a representative head, and his work is not a simple offset to Adam’s damage. The free gift is greater, fuller, and overflowing with grace, righteousness, and life for those God saves. 

We also go straight at a question that creates constant anxiety for many believers: can salvation be lost? We argue that if Adam’s sin brought a permanent reign of death that no one can undo by willpower, then Christ’s superabounding grace is not fragile, temporary, or reversible. Along the way we touch sanctification, how real change shows up over time, and why Romans 5 equips us for stronger apologetics and a clearer gospel presentation. Subscribe, share this with someone who needs assurance, and leave a review with your biggest takeaway or question.

Transcript

Sin Before Moses And The Law

SPEAKER_06 0:00

From Adam until Moses. It had its way. But when the law came, it made people aware of the heinousness, the egregiousness, the wickedness of rebellion against God. Brother Jeffrey, go ahead. Man of God.

SPEAKER_05 0:24

Well, while you were talking, you know, what crystallizes my mind is that explains it to me, I'm just sharing this, is that, you know, before Moses there was no law. But see, even like today, like I give you a short example. Okay, I knew a man that made cocaine. Okay, the way he made cocaine was he imported coca leaves. That's not against the law. But it's against the law to take coca leaves and make cocaine from them. They had to invent law to convict a man. In other words, you know, there were it wasn't a crime until they said, well, you're making cocaine, so now it's a crime. So they established a law, and the law indicated

Cocaine Analogy And Legal Guilt

SPEAKER_05 1:05

something, and law implies penalty.

SPEAKER_06 1:07

Right.

SPEAKER_05 1:08

If there's no law, there's no penalty.

SPEAKER_06 1:10

That's right.

SPEAKER_05 1:11

Amen, brother.

unknown 1:12

Amen.

SPEAKER_05 1:13

Okay, that's I just wanted to share that.

SPEAKER_06 1:15

Right. So, so where was I here? So, and so, in keeping with what we're talking about in verse 13 here, so rather than rather the point that Paul is making is that sin is not reckoned in the form of a specific transgression where there is no explicit command defining it as such. And that's what Jeff was talking about. If there is no law, if there's no commandment not to do, we often believe that this should not be done. You know, until when we hear the commandment, we now know that it that it should not be done. But before that, we feel, well, if it hasn't been said, then it's okay for us to do it. But God's way he functions and operates is very different. It's very different. When you offend God, it doesn't matter, it doesn't matter if you know that you offended him or not. Because with him, sin is sin regardless. There's a moral turpitude to which we are all respon we are all responsible for regardless. But see, we have a brand of Christianity that believes, well, if I don't know, therefore I'm excused. Or we call it in secular terms, there's a loophole. If there's nothing explicit that says I can't do it, then therefore not only can I do it, but it's probably a good thing. And so men develop loopholes. But you know what? With the Lord, there are no loopholes. There are no loopholes. When you sin, he's going to call you to give an account, and there will be no way, there will be absolutely no way to escape it, and there would be no reason that you will ever bring up to doubt it. So before the Mosaic Law, it is clear here that men sinned. It is clear here that men sinned, but they did not possess the same codified revelation that Israel later received at the hand of Moses. Yet their guilt remained real because they stood under the original covenant arrangement that was established by Adam. And because, and because they possess sufficient revelation through conscience, that inward being, and the knowledge of God in creation. And so Moses, Moses's Moses, his law revealed the sin of man that had already existed before the law came to Moses, before it came to him. Just as the grace that came through the death of Christ revealed the righteousness of God for the elect that for the elect that came apart from the law. Apart from the law. Sister Meg, your thoughts.

SPEAKER_07 4:32

In verse 14, when especially when it says, nevertheless, death reigned from Adam to Moses. But if we go back to Genesis chapter 2, verse 17, right, when he says, For in the day you eat of it, you will surely die. Well, if you look that up in the Hebrew, it's dying, you will die. So that's twice die, showing that because death reigned, not only were you separated spiritually, but you physically died.

SPEAKER_08 4:58

Right.

SPEAKER_07 4:59

And so that is even showing the accountability that they had under God and under what sin was because they died physically. If there was no accountability,

Death Reigned And Twofold Death

SPEAKER_07 5:10

then they wouldn't have been physically dying either. But it happened twice.

unknown 5:16

Right.

SPEAKER_07 5:16

One in the spirit, one in the flesh.

SPEAKER_06 5:18

Yep. Brother Jeffrey, encourage your servant.

SPEAKER_04 5:23

You said a few moments ago, Jonathan, that there are no loopholes in the law. Brother, I would respectfully disagree. There are many, many, many, many loopholes in the law. Here's the thing: they all lead to the same place: eternal death, eternal torture, and eternal punishment from God. That's the thing. The law only condemns us, but it cannot, will not, does not save us from anything. It just notifies us you are in big trouble with God. It is by grace alone, my brother, that we are brought back to relationship with God.

SPEAKER_06 6:07

Absolutely. Absolutely. Sister Vanessa, your thoughts so far.

SPEAKER_02 6:13

You know, I the thing that I understand is it doesn't matter what we thought, because once Adam sinned, we all died. I mean, it's just it is what it is. And I just thank the good Lord that He gave us Jesus Christ to what's the word I'm looking for? Uh append append our sin. Remedy for yes, that works too.

SPEAKER_06 6:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:43

But I was just, you know, I I just thank him for it because I know that without him we have nothing.

SPEAKER_06 6:48

That's right.

SPEAKER_02 6:48

And that's all I can ever say because that's just how I feel.

SPEAKER_06 6:52

Absolutely. Sister Joni. Your thoughts.

SPEAKER_00 6:59

Well, I too am very thankful for Jesus Christ that God would send his only son to save us because we needed saving. It's interesting talking about sin and being a sinner and things like that. Because I'm gonna be transparent. Before I was saved, I couldn't see my sin. And I don't think I'm alone.

SPEAKER_06 7:26

Oh, yeah, for sure. I think a lot of them didn't. I think that I think that's a very true statement.

SPEAKER_00 7:32

Most people would say, I'm a good person, I'm not a sinner. Like they respond to it with ups being upset. And it's so sad because, well, it's because there's scales on their eyes and they can't see.

SPEAKER_06 7:47

That's right.

SPEAKER_00 7:48

You know, and it doesn't matter if you don't do the big sins because they're all sins.

SPEAKER_06 7:52

They're all sins, exactly right.

SPEAKER_00 7:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 7:55

So he so so Paul here in in verse 13, you know, he shows that this verse it he shows he he's making a point to emphasize over and over again that before Moses received the law, that sin had already pervaded humanity, had already pervaded humanity, and that it affected all of us. All of us. And so he he's trying to make this understood. And so the verse, you know, the verse here, it demonstrates that the universality of death cannot be explained simply

Law Condemns Grace Restores

SPEAKER_06 8:40

by violations of the Mosaic law. In other words, so you can't, in other words, he's pointing out that you can't say that you have you are a sinner only because you violated the law that was given, because he's proving that sin was in the world before the law came. And this is what we need to understand. Death reigned long before Moses. This is his big point that he's trying to make. Sister or brother disciple, disciple of Jesus, you want to add anything?

SPEAKER_08 9:10

I just also wanted to say I'm thankful for Jesus because I just think of it like an inheritance. If like someone leaves you a debt in their, you know, their will, you didn't personally like go out and spend that money, you inherited it. So I just think that you know, Paul is saying like we inherited the debt of sin and death, and like even the people that lived before you know the law of Moses died, which proves that, like you said, it the problem wasn't just about breaking rules, it was like the fact that we were born into a broken system that you know started with Adam. But I will always remember something you said. It was in one of the prior lives. This Adam just just said, and I was like, oops, I gotta fix this. He planned this before the foundation of the world, and you it you said something along the lines of like you see my people, go get them. Like you said, it was so like so good, like that stuck with me forever. But yeah, that's pretty much what I gotta say. But yeah, that was so good. I will always like remember that.

SPEAKER_06 10:20

Oh, good sister. I'm glad to hear that. That's crazy. I gotta remember what I say sometimes. So, no, but that's that's a really good, that's a really good analogy here, you know, the you know, the inheritance, because that's that's really exactly what it is. That's exactly what's happening. And there was nothing we could do about it. That was ours, and that debt became ours. And so, and then when it comes to Christ, our debt became his. So, sister, you definitely, you're definitely understanding how this is how this is working out. So that was beautiful. That really was beautiful. So this verse, it it continues, you know, to strengthen the argument that Paul is making that human condemnation rests on a principle far older and far broader than just the the economy of Moses. And it goes back to the first man whose sin affected all of his descendants, all of them. For until the law, sin was in the world, but not imputed when there is no law. So sin before the law was imputed when the law came. Righteousness was imputed when grace came through the death of Christ. So when we talk about Adam here, we have to continue sort of juxtaposing his deeds, what he's done, and what and what the consequences are with regard to sin and death, and then flip it so that we can understand what he's gonna talk about later when it comes to Christ regarding righteousness and life. The same way that Adam's sin and death affected us is the same exact way that the gift of faith and righteousness

Adam And Christ As Covenant Heads

SPEAKER_06 12:10

in Christ comes to us who who he has predestined for this salvation. To be a participant in that new creation, we get righteousness and faith and his grace and life the same way Adam did. It is irrevocable. And we're gonna see this even more. Verse 14. Let me read it again. Nevertheless, death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that did not sin after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him who is to come. Despite the absence, despite the absence of the law during this period before Moses, Mo Paul is telling us that death reigned and it exercised dominion over us all. In this reign of death, it demonstrates that sin and its consequences were operative even without the formality of the law as it was given to Israel by Moses. Something else noteworthy to be thinking about here. Death extended even to those who had not seen, who had not sinned after the similitude of Adam, meaning they didn't do Adam's sin. Why am I getting condemned for what he did? And see, this is what men will say. That's something Adam did. Why am I being punished for a sin he did? And so we didn't do the we didn't violate the the command that Adam did. He did. He violated an explicit command from God. He violated this explicit direct command that God made. But we didn't sin after the similitude of Adam. But we understand that this here reinforces the idea that the effects of Adam's sin reached far beyond his own individual acts of transgression. Why? Because he was the one that God put in place to be the federal representative of all of humankind. There is nobody better suited, even to this day, to stand in that place of trial than Adam. He would still to this very day, if everything had to be done all over again, in a manner of speaking, we can say that he would still be the most suited. There's no man that's ever lived that could ever say, I think I could do a better job than Adam did. The only man who can say that was our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. He's the only one that could say that. And so, and again, we have to we have to look beyond just individual, independent acts. So this final phrase here that he that he that Paul speaks about, it introduces another theological connection that we need to understand. That that Adam is described as the figure of him that was to come. This is important. He was the figure of him who was to come, establishing a parallel between Adam and Christ, both acting as representative heads whose actions have consequences for those who are united to them. And so the passage sets the stage for a very promising contrast between the effects of Adam's sin and the redemptive work of Christ and the effects of his righteousness. Brother Jeffrey, encouraging servant, go ahead.

SPEAKER_04 16:22

Would we have sinned the same way they did? I'm asking you, Jonathan.

SPEAKER_07 16:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 16:32

That's what I the conclusion I come to. There are those who would like to say, oh no, I would never have done that. We have well, they have history on their part to know what happened. But to be back in that garden when the serpent first approached them and tempted them, who are we to say how we would have reacted in that situation?

SPEAKER_07 16:51

The fall had to happen, brother.

SPEAKER_04 16:53

Yeah, it did. For grace and mercy to be shown, it had to happen. Amen.

SPEAKER_06 16:58

Amen. Brother Jeffrey, man of God. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_05 17:02

Well, this thought I had was, and I was sort of tying the very beginning to the to when Christ came. First of all, there's several things. Christ is the descendant of Adam. Adam sinned, and at that time, there had to be a fundamental change in his, not just spiritually, but physically, because he went from being immortal to being mortal in the fraction of a second. And my guess is that that was a change. He could feel that change. And that change was permanent and heritable. So, in other words, that even though he lived 900 million years, basically that that guilt for that sin was passed down through the generations. And the way I look at it is it's like waiting for your trial. You know, all these generations, we've been passing down this sin, and the trial is coming, we're headed toward the courtroom. And just before we get there, our Lord Jesus Christ steps in and says, You go back there and sit down. I'm gonna take your place. And that's what he did at the cross. Right. Because in the fullness of time, the Lord keeps saying, the fool's full, it's not my time, the fool's the exact time it came for the descendant of Adam who could actually reverse what happened, you know, it was is all that's happened in between, and then the Lord Jesus Christ came and did it. Right. And then we're changed. I mean, we're not the same now that we were before we were saved. And this character that I kept talking to in the chat, who just wanted to argue, I think, you know, it's it's our sin nature is still there, but I don't sin like I did 30 years ago.

unknown 18:41

Right.

SPEAKER_05 18:41

I sin I sin differently. And the thing is, is because the Holy Spirit, through the process of sanctification, is transforming me

Free Gift Abounds And Assures

SPEAKER_05 18:50

each day more into the likeness of Christ. That's what glorification is. As soon as I step across that threshold or he comes to take us back, we are changed and we will see him. We are like him. We're not God, but we'll be we'll be like him in every other way.

SPEAKER_06 19:05

That's right.

SPEAKER_05 19:06

That's what that was my thought.

SPEAKER_06 19:08

That's right. Verse 15. Paul continues and he says, But not as the offense, so also is the free gift. For if through the offense of one many be dead, much more the grace of God and the gift by grace which is by one man, Jesus Christ, has abounded unto many. And so this is this this is a very complex verse, and and and and it starts off as one to me, like this verse right here, verse 15, is is one of the clearest scriptural declarations that while Adam and Christ are both representative heads of those who they represent, Christ's work is immeasurably superior. This is what he's saying. When he says, but not as the offense, so also is the free gift. Meaning what he's saying is that the offense, the sin of Adam, was one thing. And it produced these things, death and sin, sin and death. But he says, but the free gift, when it comes to those to whom it was made for and given to, this free gift, it will do a much greater work. It's not gonna just meet and stabilize and balance out you know, point for point, on the opposite side of what Adam had done. It's gonna be superior, it's gonna go way beyond. It's gonna be an abundant, an abundant gift that offers many things in addition to what cleared up or what remedied, like Sister Vanessa brought up, our fallen state. Christ, what he does is gonna be much greater than in in terms of extent-wise, then what Adam's death did. The significance and the beauty of what Christ is gonna bring is gonna far outweigh, extent-wise, the blessings that Christ is gonna bring over and above the curses that Adam's fall brought to man. Sister Disciple, go ahead.

SPEAKER_08 21:23

I was just gonna say through how Adam and Jesus are similar, is that what they did affected like many people. Like through Adam came death to all of humanity, but then through Christ came life to those that he chose. Right. I was gonna say something else. I forgot. I'm so sorry. I think that's all I got. Sorry.

SPEAKER_06 21:52

Well, if you remember, write it down and get back to me, and we'll we'll let you know. You can tell us about it.

SPEAKER_08 21:56

Okay, sounds good.

SPEAKER_06 21:58

So the first man. And he brought Adam, he brought condemnation to those, which is where Sister Disciple was going. Adam brought condemnation to those who he represented. But Christ, he represented a different people. And to them, he brings grace, he brings righteousness, and he brings life. And what Paul's pointing out here is that the fall was a terrible, terrible thing. But the redemption is greater. And he is going to accomplish a great deal of things for those for whom he laid down his life. Sin entered the world through one man, Adam, and spread his curse throughout the entire world. But through Jesus Christ, the grace of God has overflowed with a power and a fullness that not only removes condemnation, but it secures eternal life and everlasting fellowship with God. So let me explain what I want to say here. This is how Christ, what he did for us, is exceptional and superior. Adam brought death, sin and death. By him sin entered the world. And by sin that entered the world by Adam, death was the consequence. This is all Adam's fault. But as a result of that, but as a result of that, he had nothing in him that could fix the problem and that can reverse the matter. But Christ didn't just give righteousness and grace and faith. And this is how his what he did for us is far superior. He was able to not only deal with the sin, but he also brought in the righteousness. Adam brought the fall, and that was all he could do. The capacity in him to bring anything other than that, or to improve, or to rectify the problem, it was not in Adam to do. But the wisdom and the glory and the sovereignty of God and the and the wisdom of God devised something far superior in that he dealt with the sin. He didn't just let it stay out there floating around. Not for his people. And now believers stand before him, stand before God, perfectly pure, and spotless, every bit as spotless as our Lord and Savior is.

SPEAKER_07 25:20

So Adam's life brought death. And Christ's death brought life.

SPEAKER_06 25:28

Right.

SPEAKER_07 25:29

So where death was where Adam fell, right? Adam's life brought death. Christ's death, he had to pick up death because that's what Adam left. Christ's death brought life.

SPEAKER_08 25:46

Right.

SPEAKER_07 25:46

And it and it's oh man, that's so fire. And the what's even more amazing is that, see, not only did his death bring life, but see, Adam was never a co-heir with Christ. The God entered his own creation to bring people into the family of God that never happened before. See, so so when it says that we're a new creation, we're completely and utterly new. It was something that was never created before. And so now that we are in brought into the life and to the family of Christ of the Lord, through death, we get life.

SPEAKER_06 26:36

It's a heavy thing. And this this is exactly what this is what Paul is doing. And if you and if you take these things, like I'm always going to be somewhat restricted in what I can, how deep I can go in this because uh time-wise, and I want to get, but man, if you if every one of you goes through this to this chapter and you look at the comparisons that are drawn between Adam and Christ, it's it's it's it's amazing. It really is amazing. And and so, and and so, and just think about this. When Adam brought sin, outside of a work of Christ alone, just let's separate Christ alone. We understand something about Adam Paul. The sin and death that it brought was permanent. It was absolutely permanent. There's nothing he can do. You have elements of Christians who, after having been saved by this superior and abounding grace that we get through Christ, they will still tell you that you can lose salvation. Adam could not, what we inherited was a sin that we could not lose. No one ever walks around going saying that, man, I couldn't lose my sin. You can't lose it. When death passed upon all mankind because of Adam's sin, there was nothing man could do about it.

Can Salvation Be Lost?

SPEAKER_06 28:10

There was nobody during Adam's time prior to the prior to the law of Moses and even beyond, that can say, you know what? Adam did sin, and I did not sin after the similitude of Adam, but I do have a free will, and I can go back to being as righteous and as pure as Adam was before the fall. I'm sure that argument was not being made. And yet, Christians, people, unbelieving Christians, they are telling you that you can have the superabounding grace and faith of Jesus Christ and have his work applied to you. The removal of condemnation, the removal of sin, and the application of righteousness, and you believe that can be lost. These are the same people that would actually be saying to themselves, Well, well, if I was Adam and I sinned, I could just I could I could use my free will and turn things around. But you can't. And it sounds silly, me saying it. But my point is this just as his sin and the consequences of sin, death, reigned upon all men and was and was cannot be altered or changed, being that it took a sovereign work of God by sending his son by his grace, gifting us faith to believe, and then imparting that righteousness after having our sin imputed to him, our salvation cannot be eradicated. No more than anybody who under Adam could decide, I don't want to be a sinner anymore. Just like nobody could decide, I don't want to be a sinner anymore under Adam, that hasn't changed. So it requires a sovereign work of God, a sovereign work of Christ on our behalf, a sovereign work of the Holy Spirit on our behalf to give us a new birth and a new nature and a holiness and a separation from sin and a separation from death that can never be lost. No more than somebody who was under Adam could change their mind and decide they want to be righteous. Disciple, go ahead.

SPEAKER_08 30:33

Okay, so what I see in verse 15, because I see we're about to go to 28, perfectly leads into that. And that to me shows that God wasn't even, he wasn't trying to like you know, break even, like, okay, I'm just gonna put a little grace right there. His grace overwhelmed that sin and covered his grace was more than that. There was sin. So that you know, it takes the pressure off of us and reminds us that our mistakes are like never bigger than God's ability to cover them. This is like so good. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_06 31:10

You're on fire, sister. That's exactly right. You're on fire, you're on fire. That your sandwiches said is exactly right. It's a super abounding grace that we have. And so the idea, the idea that we can get all of the blessed, the blessedness and the blessings of Christ, and believe that can be lost, is the most absurd notion that any Christian can tell another Christian. It's the most horrible thing any Christian could ever say to another believer. It's terrible. Man of God, go ahead.

SPEAKER_05 31:48

Well, what I was gonna say was that, you know, we're talking about this, it's all true. I mean, God is omnipotent, God is sovereign. God could have, after Adam, after Eve ate the fruit and gave it to Adam, and he ate the fruit, he could have come by and said, Hey, I'm gonna give you a mulligan on this one. I'm gonna reverse everything and we're gonna go on and live in perfect Eden. He could have done it. He could have done it, but that was not his plan. No, it wasn't. It was not his plan. And we mere human beings, or no, I'll speak just to myself. Jeff Addison is not gonna sit here and say, gee, I wonder why he let that sin go so long and Christ had to come. It's because he knows that I don't.

SPEAKER_08 32:30

Right.

SPEAKER_05 32:31

It's like it's like Jeffrey always says, he's God and I'm not.

SPEAKER_06 32:36

Absolutely. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 32:42

No, no, I think everything's that's said, I agree 100%. I just I I don't I don't understand the person that thinks they can lose their salvation. It's just unbelief. It's not true faith. It's not saving faith if that's what you think. You expose your heart by even thinking that we have to trust in our Lord, and what He did reversed everything. Right. Praise Jesus. There is, we are, we are I don't even know what to say. We are so we're blessed. That's all that's the word I I can.

SPEAKER_06 33:18

We're blessed, absolutely. Sister Vanessa, what about you?

SPEAKER_02 33:22

I'm just sitting here thinking about, you know, when God created the world, he knew everything that was gonna happen. And he knew that Adam was gonna sin. So that's why Jesus was the mystery. That's the the mystery to us was answered through Christ. And the old the people that were before Jesus, they didn't have all they had was mystery. They had no idea what was gonna happen to them. So I just keep thinking about it, you know. And the only thing I can say again, thank you, God, for Jesus. That's all I can say.

SPEAKER_06 34:02

Amen. Amen, sister. Uh Mariah, what about you?

SPEAKER_03 34:09

Um no, everything that everybody's been saying, I agree with wholeheartedly. I just think that this is a big issue amongst the Christian or so-called Christian community, because if you don't understand this, then you begin to call God a liar without calling him a liar blatantly, you know, and I think that that falls into dangerous territory.

SPEAKER_06 34:34

Right. Well, you know what, everybody, this this is, I mean, one one of the things that I love about this is that I'm hoping that all of you will take these things, and again, I'm sure many of you probably know these

Apologetics And Closing Encouragement

SPEAKER_06 34:50

things or maybe know all of it. But what what out what what I'm hoping that all of you will do, I'm hoping that this will help shape by putting this focus on this, that it will shape your understanding in a better way so that you can construct a better presentation to these people who don't know better, so that we can do something to keep them from opposing themselves. And so, so one reason why it's so important for us to reason together, to reason together in this in this way, is so that we can come better at be better at apologetics, like uh Brother Joseph says, so that we can know how to give an answer, to give a defense, to be able to, you know, deal with various aspects of a particular doctrine from many different angles, so that we sharpening iron against iron, like sister says, here disciples says, so that we can become better vessels to address these things that are hard for people to understand. And this is a difficult one. This is. And I remember years ago, knowing that I believed what's in Romans 5, but Romans 5, in my early days as a Christian, was a very difficult chapter for me to learn. It just like I could see it, but it wasn't quite, you know, it took years after for it to make a lot more sense to me. And so please do yourself a favor and go through this again on your own time and really dig into this because it's really a powerful uh chapter in uh Romans. So sin entered through one man, spread his curse throughout the world, but through Jesus.