Die With Christ, Live With Christ (Rom 6:5-11), Part 2/4

If you’ve ever wondered, “Why do I still battle sin if I belong to Christ,” we go straight to the heart of Romans 6 and refuse the shallow answers. We put weight on Paul’s words that our “old man” was crucified with Christ, and we ask the hard, honest follow-up: if that’s true, what exactly is happening when temptation still hits, habits still flare, and spiritual warfare still feels constant?

We unpack the difference between sin being present and sin reigning. The body of sin is not your physical body, and “destroyed” does not mean you reach sinless perfection overnight. It means sin’s dominion is legally broken, its authority is overthrown, and its power is progressively weakened through sanctification. We talk assurance of salvation, eternal security, and why justification by faith is a forensic verdict grounded in Christ’s finished work, not your daily performance.

We also confront a modern confusion point: the claim that asking God for forgiveness proves you were never saved. We argue the opposite. Christians confess because they now recognize sin as sin, hate what once felt normal, and run to Christ rather than hide. Repentance is not the mechanism that keeps you saved; it’s the fruit of being saved.

If this conversation helps you breathe again, subscribe, share it with a friend who needs steadier assurance, and leave a review so more people can find it. What part of Romans 6 gives you the most confidence when you struggle?

Transcript

Can Salvation Be Lost

SPEAKER_03 0:00

Can lose salvation. Paul says we need to know. We know that our old man is crucified with Christ. So from where does the sin come from that is able to remove the satisfaction of God's justice from the sinner after having had their old man crucified by Christ? You see, it doesn't make any sense. If he crucified it, where does it come from? He says, knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed. To what Meg was saying. Not the body of this flesh, but the body of sin that was governing our flesh, that reigned and ruled over us. The body of sin, he says, is destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. So here's what he says. Because he's pointing out something very simple. He's saying that sin is not gone. The old man has been crucified. Number one. Why? That the body of sin might be destroyed. Why? So that from now on, or from henceforth, we should not serve sin. Sin is still there, but it doesn't, we don't serve it. We don't, we're not governed by it. Sin is dying. And this is a hard pill for a lot of Christians to understand.

The Old Man Crucified

SPEAKER_03 1:50

That body of sin, that being destroyed, and so that henceforth we should not serve sin. All of it grows out of being crucified with Christ. And having been crucified in Christ, we are planted together in the likeness of his death. But we need to understand, and we keep reminding ourselves, that when we're speaking about sin, we're talking about the judicial requirements being satisfied by Christ's death and resurrection and presenting us before God as spotless and holy before him. To have his view of us be any different than what it is for his son is a complete falsehood. Once we are in Christ, planted together in him, being in unity with him forevermore, having been crucified with him and then raised in the newness of life by his resurrection, this cannot be undone. There are no weeds that grow in the Lord's garden. There are no dry branches that come out of his vine. We are in him that henceforth we should not. He tells you what the nature of sin being destroyed is. That henceforth we should not serve sin. That is what is at play here. We no longer serve it. Does it mean we don't still act out? It doesn't mean that we go a moment without being plagued and attacked by sin. But we don't succumb. We don't serve it. It's not our master anymore. We are no longer in bondage to it anymore. So we need to understand that it's all around us, and we resist it, and we resist it, and we feel remorse for it, but it is there, and we don't serve it. And this is what Paul is saying. He explains here what it means to be accomplished, or what is accomplished by the death of Christ. The old man refers to the believer as he used to exist in Adam. We don't exist in Adam anymore. As a result of Adam's fall, all of us were under the dominion of sin and Satan and the world. We were under the tyranny of sin. But after the resurrection, after the death and resurrection of our Lord, we were no longer under that tyranny. Having peace with God. Nor is it only the corrupt nature that is being spoken about here. That is not what we are now. This old man that we were before Christ, the whole of us, was crucified with Christ. And the crucifixion of the old man signifies, as I said before, a judicial and decisive act on the part of Christ, accomplishing through union that is accomplished through union with Christ and what he did for us on the cross. We must see ourselves in union with him. And if you see yourself in union with him, you can't see yourself outside of that union. To see yourself outside of that union is to say that what Christ did did not accomplish what it was intended to accomplish

Sin Remains But Not Master

SPEAKER_03 6:41

for us. Sin remains present in the believer. We need to understand this. And I'm going to show you this because Paul's going to talk about this a little later. But what Paul is emphasizing is that sin no longer reigns over us. The reign of sin, the rule and dominion of sin, no longer governs us. It has been broken, completely severed. There is nothing sin can do to hold us back from the grace and the mercy of what our Lord has done for us. And then he says, Then he says, For if we are knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed. That the body of sin might be destroyed. And Paul treats this like he treats an organized power that is showing itself off in us and controlling all of the faculties that operate within the fragile human soul. And Paul is saying that through the death of Christ, that dominion that once governed over us has been made powerless. Its power has been severed. There is nothing it can do. Nothing. Sin survives, but it no longer rules and governs us as a king. It is the risen Lord who we have been planted together with, who is now our king. He governs us, he rules over us. And the authority that sin once had over us has been legally overthrown. And having been legally overthrown, it becomes progressively more and more weakened through the sanctification process that we are all currently going through. If you start from knowing this in verse five, for since we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall also be in the likeness of his resurrection. If you start from that standpoint, you will find yourself fortified in the most possible, highest possible degree to know that you no longer belong to the world and to sin. It no longer has dominion over you. We get caught in sin. What do we do? We pray to the Lord. We acknowledge our sin. We confess our sins to the Lord. We confess our sins to one another for salvation? No. Somebody will always ask that question. Does it mean that if I'm doing this, it means I'm not saved? No, it doesn't mean that. If you're asking forgiveness for sin that you commit today or tomorrow, does it mean that you're not saved? No, it doesn't mean that. It simply means that you acknowledge sin. You're beginning to recognize its power. You begin to recognize the devices of Satan and sin in the world. You begin to recognize all those things that you once appreciated as things you now hate and detest. Those desires. They progressively begin to become weaned. You become weaned from those things. Sin no longer has dominion over you, it no longer reigns over you. The unbeliever doesn't go to Christ and ask for forgiveness. The unbeliever doesn't go to Christ recognizing themselves, recognizing themselves as sinners. But as believers, we do. So many people are always trying to find this ridiculous, mystical connections to everything, over-spiritualizing everything. If you don't know that you are still sinning, something is wrong with you as a Christian. But the question is this is it ruling you? Is it governing you? Do you not flee when it comes? Do you not resist it when it comes? Do you not go to your brother or sister to comfort you? See, this is the difference. So when I hear these guys talking about all over the internet, well, if you are asking for forgiveness, then that must mean you're not a Christian. That is stupid. And it's another one of the tactics of the devil to keep you from recognizing wickedness. Paul tells us later on in Corinthians, we are not ignorant of Satan's devices. Why are we not ignorant? What does ignorant mean? Ignorance means to not know. But what does he tell us here in verse 6? Knowing this, we are not ignorant of his devices. Why? Because we know this. What do we know? Our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed. Why? So that henceforth we should not serve sin. The practical purposes, the practical purpose of the crucifixion is clearly stated that henceforth we should serve sin no more. Before our conversions, we argue this often. Before our conversions, sinners are all slaves of sin. This is why we argue so much about the will of man being free. Before conversion, we were all slaves to sin, in bondage to sin. However, free they may imagine themselves to be, all of those who claim that they are free, they are not free. They are slaves to sin. They serve sin willfully and cannot alter that will.

Justification And Union With Christ

SPEAKER_03 14:12

So it is through this union with Christ that Paul talks about here in verse five. This union with Christ that believes, or in verse six, that you that believers are liberated from this slavery. You cannot be in union with Christ and still be in league with sin. It is one or the other. So in verse five, if it says we've been planted together in Christ, you can't be planted together in Christ and also be planted together in Satan, in the devil. It's impossible. They don't mingle together. Was it not Christ who said in Matthew 12 that he must first bind the strong man? That two men can't serve, uh, that one man can't serve two masters, that in order for Christ to spoil the goods of Satan that were his own, he must first bind the strong men. They can't rule together. Even in Satan's defense, the Lord Jesus Christ he said, How can I be casting out devils by devils? Because that would mean that he's divided against himself. And now you have Christians saying that Christ is divided against himself when they talk about that they can be crucified in the likeness of Christ's death and yet lose salvation later. That would make Christ divided. And the idea that Christ is in league with Satan is foolishness, which is exactly what is implied when we talk about a Christian can come out from under the saving grace of Christ's death and his resurrection. If the death and resurrection has been applied to you and somehow in the course of your life is overturned, then that implies Christ working against himself. Not only working against himself, meaning against what he has proposed to do and said he has actually done, but it also has our Lord working in league with the devil. And apparently, for a Christian to lose their salvation, there's a power that Satan wields over us that is stronger than the Lord's.

SPEAKER_01 17:04

As a sinner.

SPEAKER_03 17:17

Listen, everyone who preaches that a Christian can lose their salvation is the grossest of all liars that the earth has ever generated. You take the most heinous lies that a man can tell on earth, it's nothing compared to a Christian that says that Christ can't keep you saved once he saved you. Only a foolish Christian would say something so stupid. And I'll I have stood on that for 43 years, and it ain't gonna change. Because it is clear what the word of God says. Paul says in verse 6, knowing this, our old man is crucified in the likeness of Christ. We crucified with Christ. Why? That the body of sin might be destroyed, which has been done. Henceforth, we should serve sin no longer. The Christian always will struggle against sin, but he no longer serves it as his master. And that's what we need to understand. The warfare remains. Listen, if we still, if we had no sin at all, there would be no warfare. The warfare remains, but the chains and the shackles have been broken, and we are no longer under the authority and under the dominion of sin. And we have been set free by Christ. Sister Vanessa, what do you think? Your thoughts.

SPEAKER_07 19:08

Hallelujah, hallelujah. Thank you, Lord. We certainly have been set free. And I have I mean, what else is there to say? Honestly. Nothing but the truth. Nothing but the truth.

SPEAKER_02 19:23

That's right. Sister Meg, your thoughts. Sister Meg, you sleeping? All right. Um Mariah, go ahead. What do you think?

SPEAKER_05 19:40

I think that it's a beautiful theme. You're talking about be having been planted. And I never really knew this or took a liking to try to know. But the seeds are come from, you know, the vegetables or whatever. But it's dead, you know, and you have to plant it, or you could take a living vegetable or fruit or whatever, cut it in half. Stop screaming. Watch it die in the ground if you put it against, you know, grass or something that you can see. And as it decays and it comes to its final point of the decaying or death, then it brings forth life. It's just such a beautiful thing. So this language here, I really can't appreciate knowing that.

SPEAKER_02 20:29

Amen. Amen.

SPEAKER_03 20:30

It is, it is it is an amazing thing because if we could be planted planted together with Christ, being unity with him going forward, be be alive because he is alive, and then lose our salvation, that would make God the most awful of farmers. The most awful of farmers.

SPEAKER_05 20:50

Wouldn't that have to mean because it says that it is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me? That would mean that Christ would have to die. It wouldn't mean that Christ would have to come to an end because it is no longer me. So I don't understand how people can come to this conclusion that you can die again.

SPEAKER_02 21:09

Absolutely. Absolutely. Sister Lisa, did I get to you already?

SPEAKER_04 21:15

I'm earlier, but I I will just say I love what you're saying. I think it's I mean, nothing more can be said. It's so clear in here. And you know, I'm just gonna pray for all of these people because their faith, the ones that say you can lose it, and the ones that say it's your free will, they're always they're relying on themselves instead of Christ Jesus, and they've just got to switch it. Surrender it all. Otherwise, I mean, they're gonna let themselves down. We always do when we rely on ourselves, don't we?

SPEAKER_02 21:48

Yes, we do.

SPEAKER_04 21:50

So here we go. Let's pray for these people.

SPEAKER_03 21:55

So look at verse oh no, hold on. I forgot you. Oh no, I got Vinus already. Okay. So Verse seven. Now look, look look how simple this is. For he that is dead is freed from sin. He that is dead is freed from sin. In this small brief statement, we find it being established that the principle of Paul's

Confession Without Fear

SPEAKER_03 22:30

argument it comes to the surface. If you have been freed from sin, I mean if you have been if you have died, meaning, like he tells us that we were crucified with Christ, then you are freed from sin. Freed from sin. All the you know, death basically, our death as a result of dying in Christ, it dissolves all legal obligations whatsoever, and it terminates all of the previous relationships that we had to sin. All of it. But how could Paul say there is no temptation but that which is common to all men, but will allow a way out? That only happens because we are Christians. He didn't say that the temptation stop. He says that it has no dominion. We are able to resist it and to say no. We are able to despise it. We are able to exercise sorrow for it. Godly sorrow works repentance. And this is what he's talking about. Yes, we despise it, we don't love it, we hate it. So, but the the thing is, we have to understand that all of what God requires from a legal standpoint, from us deserving wrath and condemnation, that all of that in a judicial sense is gone. And that judicial sense is a very real sense. That's why Paul opens up this book talking about justification by faith, because justification is a legal term, it is forensic. And the fact that it's forensic and legal implies that there's still resident sin, but it is being purged and it has no rule and dominion over us. It doesn't empire over us, it doesn't call the shots in our lives. We are no longer its slave, and sin is no longer our master. If we were under the dominion of sin, we would not like gathering the way we are right now on a nightly basis. We would not pray for people. We would not desire for many other people to come to faith, our family members and friends, even enemies in some respects. We are warriors now against sin. We are now, we now live in this kingdom whereby Christ has brought us into absolute perfect union with him, being planted together with him. Nothing can take us outside of Christ once we are in him. And just like a deceased servant can no longer be compelled to obey its earthly master, so the believer who has died with Christ, he has been released from sin's rightful claim over him. This is what Paul means for he that is dead is freed from sin. How can you obey sin if you are dead to it? If the old man is dead, how is it that that old man being dead is able to obey sin? He can't. He can't. And so the freedom here that is being described is not talking about, lest anybody think otherwise, it is not talking about sinless perfection. That comes when we are in our glorified bodies. The fact that we talk about having glorified bodies to come when Christ returns implies that there's still a flaw within these body that we live in right now, which Paul calls the body of death. So we're not talking about sinless perfection. When Paul says, for he that is dead is freed from sin, it is not talking about sinless perfection. That is not what it's talking about. But rather, it is speaking about its emancipation, the true freedom from sin's dominion, and more importantly, its condemning power. We can no longer be condemned for sin, and we can no longer be controlled by it. It's impossibility. Sin still harasses all of us, does it not? We are tempted by sin. Sin afflicts the believers in a variety of ways, but it cannot exercise the same authority that it used to. It can't do that anymore. The Christian's relationship to sin has fundamentally changed, has been altered forever.

You Cannot Serve Two Masters

SPEAKER_03 28:10

Don't let people frighten you with all this sin talk. Paul says that the old man was crucified with Christ. That means it's dead. The old man is dead. Now the new man is alive, and that new man desires everything that is righteous and holy, and everything that pertains to Christ and his glory. That is our goal. What was once the ruling, governing principle in our life has now is now by us because of the Holy Spirit working in and through us, it is sin is now a hostile intruder. It's an enemy. You have to understand the spiritual significance of sin and the spiritual significance of it as an intruder, as an enemy. That's what it is. An enemy that we fight, that we resist, that we rely on the mercy of Christ to give us, to help us to prevail over, and he always does. He promises that he would. Even while in its presence remains. It is done for. There's no dominion. And so this is what is foundational to a Christian's assurance. This is what is foundational. Knowing that you died in Christ and having been dead, you are now freed from sin. But then we become a slave to righteousness. Sanctification does not begin, as many people think, in the human heart. Not the will of man that makes this happen. Sanctification begins with the accomplishment of our Savior. What he did at Calvary when he died for our sin, and when he raised again to give us the assurance that life eternal and a resurrection final will be the end result for the believer. Going into eternity.

unknown 30:56

Mr.

SPEAKER_03 30:56

Gutriman, would you like to add anything, brother? Your thoughts. Maybe not. Sister Cindy, what do you think?

SPEAKER_06 31:09

Um, good evening. Good evening. I I disagree with everything you've been saying. I mean, I think that struggle that the believer has, it I mean, before we didn't struggle with sin. It was what we lived to do. We lived to serve it. And now when you've been born again, you live to serve the Lord. That's your purpose. You understand that that's your purpose. That's right. And so now you have that that desire to fight that sin, kill it off, mortify it, right? Because it's not, it doesn't glorify the Lord. And that's what we want to do.

SPEAKER_03 31:50

Excellent, excellent response. True, very true, all of it.

unknown 31:54

Mr.

SPEAKER_03 31:54

Gutcherman, Pastor Gutcherman, what do you think?

SPEAKER_00 31:56

I I like in the Greek where it talks about the how we are servants of righteousness, that diacame. And if if you look at the if you look at the verbiage, it's actually gender neutral. So it's for everybody, male and female, which is awesome. Amen, brother.

SPEAKER_03 32:16

And good to have you here.

SPEAKER_02 32:17

It's been a while, but glad to have you.

SPEAKER_00 32:18

Thank you, brother.

SPEAKER_03 32:20

Yep. Brother Nathan, what do you think? Would you like to add anything?

SPEAKER_09 32:26

Not really sure what to think. I just got here.

SPEAKER_03 32:29

Okay. All right. You can hang around a little while and warm up and see what happens. Let's see what you think later. Sister Meg, are you there?

SPEAKER_02 32:39

Alright, Sister Mariah.

SPEAKER_05 32:43

I'm right on board, brother.

SPEAKER_09 32:49

One thing I

Dead To Sin Freed From Condemnation

SPEAKER_09 32:50

would like to say, though, sure. Is I appreciate seeing some genuine believers on here.

SPEAKER_02 32:57

Oh, man. Thank you today.

SPEAKER_09 32:58

I just got out of another TikTok live. I was getting some cult vibes from them. I mean, they were preaching the Bible, but I was like, something ain't right, something ain't right.

SPEAKER_08 33:11

And then I come into your live and I'm like, ah, real believers.

SPEAKER_02 33:18

Well, I hope not to disappoint, brother. I hope not to disappoint.

SPEAKER_08 33:21

I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_02 33:22

All right, we're brand. Sister Lisa, your thoughts.

SPEAKER_04 33:28

Yeah, I agree 100%. I was just gonna, I saw Sister Terry in the you know, the comments talking about sanctific sanctification, and I agree with her totally. It's it's a painful process. It is you know, we go from we go from loving that sin and just being happy as a clam to to be in it, and when we're born again in Christ, although we are free, that sin wants to creep up, and it it's it's uh it's painful. So um I love all this. I I this this is so amazing.

Group Reflections And Closing

SPEAKER_04 34:05

This is a great study. Thank you, Jonathan.

SPEAKER_02 34:07

Good one, no problem, sister.

SPEAKER_03 34:08

Sister Vanessa, your thoughts on verse 7. For he that is dead is freed from sin. We are always keeping it simple.

SPEAKER_07 34:22

Well, I mean, it is simple if you just think about it. I mean, sometimes people make it harder than what it is, and I just when I think about the Lord, I just think that I love him.