Die With Christ, Live With Christ (Rom 6:5-11), Part 4/4

Your worst spiritual fear is usually the one you’re too ashamed to say out loud: “What if I lose my salvation?” We go straight at that question by tracing how self-focused faith creates constant pressure, and why the gospel moves us from “I have to hold on” to “Christ lives in me.” When salvation feels like a tightrope, peace disappears. When salvation is anchored in Jesus, the heart can finally rest.

We dig into Romans 6:10-11 and the logic of the cross: Christ died to sin once, a final and unrepeatable atoning work that needs no supplement. We also clarify a point that confuses many Christians: the wrath of God is endured on the cross, not later in a place of torment. If the debt is paid, it isn’t paid twice. That’s not abstract theology, it’s the difference between daily anxiety and steady assurance.

Then we unpack the practical command to “reckon” yourself dead to sin and alive to God. We talk about what reckoning is and isn’t, how union with Christ changes your identity, and why sanctification becomes both realistic and hopeful when sin is no longer your master. The conversation closes with personal reflections on being hidden in Christ and a prayer for a friend facing medical treatment.

If you’ve been stuck in fear-based obedience or constant self-checking, listen through and let us know what hit home. Subscribe for the next part, share this with someone who needs assurance, and leave a review so more people can find this study.

Transcript

From Self Effort To Rest

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Because of something you do, because they're not gonna tell you, oh, I'm not worried about God. I just I gotta hang on, I gotta be obedient, I gotta do I, I, I. As soon as you start putting I into it, your faith isn't where it needs to be now. It's not I anymore. It's Christ who lives in me, not I. I am dead. So if you know, I just want to say to anyone out there that's thinking, I am, I gotta be obedient and I gotta watch how I'm walking. It's not you gotta relax. That's all you gotta do. You gotta relax. Relax and rest in the Lord. That's you know, it's I just I'm just the more we do these, Jonathan, the the more you pound this into my brain, the more calm and joyful and comforted I am because I gotta tell you, if there was a way for me to lose salvation, I would. I'm gonna lose it. I'm gonna 100% lose it. So what I don't worry. I don't worry. I know God's got me. He's never, he's never gonna He promises He'll never leave us nor forsake us.

SPEAKER_01 1:05

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 1:06

So you believe him or you don't.

SPEAKER_01 1:07

That's right. That's it. Tell it like it is, sister. Tell it like it is, Sister Cindy. Go ahead.

Union With Christ And Firstfruits

SPEAKER_04 1:14

So one thing that just came to me while Sister Lisa was talking to was this union we have with Christ, right? We the Bible tells us that we are a type of first fruits, right? Like we follow in the same order as Christ. So if you were to say that you could lose your salvation and all this other stuff, this ridiculous stuff people be saying, then you basically saying we don't follow in the same order as Christ. That's wrong, though.

SPEAKER_02 1:46

That's so wrong. You know what, sister? Very, very that's that is probably the strongest proof mentioned tonight, even by myself. And I'll tell you the reason why. Because Christ, as you said correctly, he is the first fruits. He's the first fruits. But you have to understand, as you obviously understand, that the first fruits implies the second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth, and on and on. Amen. So that's what it's talking about. His resurrection and him being the first fruits implies there is more to follow. And and that those who follow, in terms of the sheaves that are gathered, they are promised. So the first fruits is the evidence that there's a full farm out there that needs to be harvested.

SPEAKER_04 2:43

That's right.

SPEAKER_02 2:44

And so, sister, you you nailed it. That's a that's a that's that's a I mean if you put if you put a lot of these proofs that we're talking about in a hierarchical order, order, that's the strongest one of the night. It's a good, it's a great one. It's a great one. And one that usually takes a lot of people time to sort of to understand. But you know, we talked about this before, but you nailed it, you nailed it right on the head. That's exactly the perfect way to look at it. The perfect way to look at it. So, verse, did I finish?

Christ Died Once For Sin

SPEAKER_02 3:16

Yeah, so now we get to verse 10. Two more verses to go. Now I'll be able to complete this this whole thing because I don't want to pick up tomorrow at the end of the last one. So I'll try to get to these two verses pretty fast. So in verse 10 it says, For in that he, meaning Christ, for in that he died, he died unto sin, as Moriah talked about, once. But in that he lives, he lives unto God. So Christ's death was a singular death. It was an unrepeatable event. One death, never to be repeated again. And it talks about how he died unto sin, which does not mean that Christ had a personal sin from which he needed to be delivered from, but that he died in relationship to the sin, to sin, as is judicial, judicial, sorry, I'm getting tongue twisted, judicial burden bearer for us. He died for the sole purpose of taking away our sin. And if he didn't do that, and if he wasn't able to hold those for saved that he died for, then what was the point of him coming in the first place if that possibility was pending? It makes the word of God look stupid to say this. And yet, many of these unbelieving Christians they have no problem saying this, thinking that they're doing God a favor by telling you to focus on works and deeds rather than on faithfulness that leads to holiness and growth and grace. Christ entered into the sphere where sin's guilt demanded punishment and fully satisfied every claim of divine justice. And here's the important thing because, like our brother Chris was saying earlier, that I will hope hopefully we get to talk about if he doesn't understand sooner.

Wrath Paid At The Cross

SPEAKER_02 5:20

Christ never went to hell, the place of torment. The wrath of God that he endured was on the cross, not in the ground. It was on the cross. That's what we need to understand. The cross is everything to the believer, it is everything. It is all about that work he did in his person on that tree. There was nothing for him to suffer, there was no place else for him to suffer, other than that cross where God would find his sacrifice acceptable. His wrath, the wrath that we all deserved, Christ took upon himself and endured it on the cross. Hell is a consequence of sin. So if Christ has already removed the sin by his death on the cross, after he died, that had already been done. So there would be no reason for him to go to the place where consequences are exacted on sinners who have not been, who have been unrepented. You understand what I'm saying? So, so if the wrath of God was on the cross and the consequences is hell, there would have been no need for Christ, after having already died from sin on the cross to enter into the eternal place of hell after the hell after the wrath has already been exacted. Hell is the place where consequences are incurred for a unpaid debt, not where the debt is paid on the cross and then paid again where the consequences are supposed to be leveled. So I hope that makes sense. If it doesn't, please write to me or let me know because I think that's an important part that needs to be understood. So having Christ having accomplished redemption, there now remains no more sacrifice. There's nothing else for him to offer. And there's no additional atonement to be made. The death of Christ was sufficient to save all, but efficient in saving every single person for whom Christ came to redeem. Now it says here in verse 10, for in that he died, he died unto sin once. Once, emphasizing the finality and the perfection of his work. His sacrifice needs no repetition. Every attempt to supplement or continue or to augment his atoning work only serves to undermine the sufficiency of what he did on that cross on our behalf. And by contrast, his risen life is wholly and completely devoted to God. Because he, our Lord and Savior, he completed the work of his humiliation, and he now lives in the unbroken enjoyment of the exalted state, which also serves as our hope and expectation. His entire existence, right now, as our risen mediator and glorified Lord, is directed to the glory of God and the accomplishment of God's eternal purpose. All these things were decreed and ordered by God from before the foundation of the world. And so this relationship to God becomes the pattern for the believer's own life. Everything that Christ has experienced in death and resurrection and glory, we are to be made partakers of that. And we have yet to receive the final aspect of these things, and we are certain that we will. We are certain. Verse 11.

What “Reckon” Really Means

SPEAKER_02 9:42

Likewise, reckon ye also yourselves to be dead. Count yourselves to be dead. Likewise, reckon yourselves also, meaning just like Christ. Reckon you also yourselves to be dead. Not half dead, not dead temporarily, but dead indeed unto sin. And also reckon your lives, reckon yourselves alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. Now he's dealing with the application of all of this. The application. What does reckon mean? It doesn't mean to imagine something that is unreal. Nor does it mean to persuade someone or to persuade yourself of a fiction of some sort. But it means to regard as true what God Himself declares is true. Like Sister Mariah says, you can count on it. You can count on it. Likewise, count yourselves exactly right. Count yourself dead. Believers are called to count upon the reality of your union with Christ and to allow it to order your lives accordingly. Reckon yourselves dead to sin. He's telling you. For you to lay hold to this understanding. It is so important to understand this. If you don't, I don't know how you have a day of peace in Christ. I don't understand how you could. The believer has to refuse to view himself according to his former identity. He told us that the old man died, and now as a result of that, we are freed from sin. So why do so many people act as though that is not the truth or not the case? You are no longer the person you used to be. You may look in the mirror and see the same physical person, but you are definitely, definitely not the same person. And so though sin may remain active, its reign and rule and governance over you has ceased. It is the rule of sin over you that is gone. It is the rule of sin as your master that is gone. It is the bondage that sin had of you that is gone. Faith embraces this objective truth, and it should be applying it to your daily life, as I'm sure it does. Believers are to regard themselves as alive unto God. Not just reckon ourselves dead to sin, but we also need to reckon ourselves alive unto God. And to know that this new life is not a self-generated life, not one that we manufacture, but it exists how? Through Jesus Christ our Lord. That's what it says. Reckon yourselves to be dead to sin. Reckon yourselves to be alive unto God. And then he tells you how that happens. Through Jesus Christ our Lord. Not through your quote-unquote accepting Jesus as your Lord and Savior. Not through the exertion of your will. But to believe that this whole work, this whole work in its totality, is a work of the Lord Jesus Christ and him alone. Him alone. And so as spiritual vitality flows from our union with Christ, the Christian life, therefore, consists not just in resisting sin, but also actively living unto God. Are you living unto God? Because if you believe that you're capable of losing your salvation after having died to Christ, I can see why you would be worried, frustrated, and full of anxiety and depression on a daily basis. And it's possibly possibly because you don't know him. And I'm assuming that this despair that persons may have may be the result of believing you can lose your salvation. Not from anything that happens in life. So I don't want to take away from people's real circumstances because a Christian can be depressed and downcast and in despair. That is true. But hopefully, not because they don't know that Christ is alive and that they live because of him. Hopefully, not because they don't they worry about if they're actually dead to sin. The truth of the matter is for a Christian to be concerned about whether or not they have truly died in Christ and if they're truly alive in Christ, that's a good indication that you are dead to sin and alive in Christ. Because the ungodly don't ask that question. What atheist or or what atheist or agnostic has ever made this claim? I worry that I'm saved. I worry that the blood has been sufficient. Have you ever heard an atheist or an agnostic, which is another word for saying ignoramus? Have you ever heard one of them say this? No. Only Christians are concerned about these things. So sanctification is both a negative and a positive that we need to consider. Negative in that sanctification is constantly a dying to sin. And the flip side of the coin of sanctification is that we had now we are now able to live and are living unto righteousness. And the completion of both will come when Christ returns. So verse 11 here serves as one of the great summaries of the believers' position and duty as Christians.

Planted Together And Fully Secure

SPEAKER_02 16:53

And at the very foundation, we opened up in verse 5 where it says, For since we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall also be in the likeness of his resurrection. I love this verse. I love the part when it says, We have been planted together in the likeness of his death and in the likeness of his resurrection. That right there tells you salvation cannot be more secure than what you read in that place. Only people, the only people that lose salvation in this life are those unbelieving Christians who never had it. They never had it. And you have to understand, one reason why it is evident that they never had it is because they still believe that keeping it is based on what they do, and what you do can have no place in your salvation. And that is why Paul can say in verse 11 likewise, reckon yourselves or count yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord, not through you and not through me, but through him and him alone. Death to sin and life to God. That is the reality of the Christian soul. This means that faith reckoning God's truth is certain. Faith allows us to understand the certainty of that. And the result is a life that is increasingly marked by holiness, by obedience, and communion with the living Christ. As much as we say about this, it comes down to as simple as just knowing, as Paul said, knowing that we are in him. We are in him because of his death, and we are in him concerning his life. He died, we died. He's alive, we are alive. And that forevermore. And that's where we'll end tonight, sisters and brothers who are listening. And may God bless all of you.

Final Reflections On Living In Him

SPEAKER_02 19:25

So I'll give you some last words. Mr. Mariah, last word. What do you think?

SPEAKER_06 19:31

One second, please.

SPEAKER_02 19:32

Sure. When we come back to you.

SPEAKER_03 19:35

Yes, sir.

SPEAKER_02 19:37

All right. Sister Meg, what do you think?

SPEAKER_03 19:40

I think that when we read these verses, at the end we clear we clearly understand what it really means to be hidden in Christ. It's because everything is in Christ, especially when we when we hear Paul in his epistles from Romans to Philemon, he's constantly speaking about in Christ, in Christ. It's because the Father is pleased with his son. He's only pleased with him. He's not pleased with us. He's pleased with him and those that are in him. And because we because we died right with him, we also live with him. And that's just glorious.

SPEAKER_01 20:26

It is.

SPEAKER_03 20:26

All of these verses start coming, you know, like then we understand whom the son sets free is free indeed. This is why we're free.

SPEAKER_01 20:34

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 20:35

Because of what he did. So many times we we we talk about the death, burial, and resurrection, but what about the perfect, obedient life that he lived? That none of us could ever live, even on our best day? What about the law that we knew that was a mirror to us that we knew that without Christ, there was no possible way that it could be done. That's right. God had to step into his own creation to be the man that we could never be and to perfectly reconcile us back to the Father. Oh, so beautiful.

SPEAKER_01 21:10

It is.

SPEAKER_00 21:15

Oh, I think this was so good. And I just I just want to kind of add to what Sister Meg was just saying. You know, we look at Christ and his perfect life and how beautiful he did everything. And even though we can't do it, he is within us. And now we, even though we can't, we desire to. I mean, think about that. There is a desire to be obedient to him, not because we fear losing salvation, because but because it's what he desires. It's so beautiful when you start to align, you know, your will with his, his will be done. And it's my You know what I mean? I my will, I want his will to be done. It's the perfect thing. And that's the change that I've seen in my own self of how I used to think of things. It it's it's so beautiful, and I'm so grateful and I love the Lord so much. And I'm man, I just I this is a beautiful study.

SPEAKER_01 22:21

Excellent. Excellent. Sister Vanessa, your last word.

SPEAKER_05 22:26

And I agree with him. You know I do. I just said all that stuff earlier, but it just, you know, living within him is a special thing. And that a lot of times that's all I think about. You know, that he's in me and that I can do anything. Even when I get aggravated, like yesterday, I was so aggravated. But you know, I kept saying, God, please just get me through this, you know. I depend on him. I depend everything I depend on him. That's right. And I think that we all do. And you know, if you love the Lord, that's what you do.

SPEAKER_01 23:03

Right.

SPEAKER_05 23:04

And I mean, I'm not I'm not a person that has a lot of words to say, but I know what what it is. You know, it's it's like I said earlier, it's just simple to me. It's just super simple that we love God and He loves us, and because that Jesus lives within us, that we live within Him, and that we are with God. And I just, you know, that's my final word to tonight.

SPEAKER_02 23:32

Amen. I mean, if there's if there's two words to remember for everybody tonight, not even two words, just the whole part where he says, We have been planted together in the likeness of his death and in his life. But the planted together is a powerful two words that he puts together to make us understand our station in our lives as Christians. So it's it's a powerful statement. Sister Mariah, you there? Ready?

SPEAKER_06 23:58

Yes.

Luke 20 And Romans Built Like A Case

SPEAKER_06 23:59

Um, I just want to read a few verses from Luke 20. It says, Neither can they die anymore. 36, neither can they die anymore, for they are equal unto the angels, and they are children of God, and being the children of the resurrection, now that they are dead, are now that the dead are raised, Moses showed at the bush when he called the Lord the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, for he is not a God of the dead, but of the living, for all live unto him. And you know, I think that when we say that we are children of God, we have to understand God cannot die. He lives forevermore now, you know, and now that we are children of God, we have to understand that we no longer, although we were dead in our sins and our trespasses, you know, we are alive forevermore in Christ Jesus our Lord. So I hope people can really truly grasp that and and go study or ask God to reveal this to you. Also, Romans 6 is a great chapter for eternal security. If you don't see eternal security in this chapter, I don't know what it is that you're reading.

SPEAKER_02 25:25

Exactly. Yeah, but mostly unfortunately, it's what they're not reading. But you're right, sister. And this is a part, in fact, you know, you you're gonna see this continue to escalate up and down, proving that very point you're just talking about inverted all the way through chapter end of chapter eight. And it's almost as if Paul, like hit like the book of Romans, is so well uh structured that it it it builds and the crescendo happens when you get to the you know nine, ninth, and tenth, eleventh, and eleventh chapter. But this is all setting the stage for it. You can't understand those chapters if you don't understand the ones that precede it. Because Paul is making the case just like a lawyer, what he's building it up, building up, building up, so that is so that it is impossible to under not to understand what comes later. But it's a constant buildup from the very from chapter one all the way up through chapter 11. It's a constant buildup. And then after that, it starts to it start things start to get simpler in terms of dealing with more practical matters. But the but the the but the doctrinal meat of what we read in each in in the Bible are right here. In these chapters that we're reading from from from in Romans 1 all the way through 12, I mean, it doesn't get any more meatier than this book. Nothing in the Bible. John does in other places, they you know, they all do. Hebrews does, John does, but rev but Romans really, Paul really makes this a makes this case and it's so powerful. And and if you understand uh these things about the salvation and being translated into this new kingdom and being under this different governor where sin is no longer our master, but the Lord is. We're no longer a slave to sin, but now we're a slave to righteousness. And so when you get that, it makes all the hard stuff that comes later, it makes it palatable. And it makes it it gives satisfaction to the soul. Great satisfaction, great comfort, and great security that we have in Christ. So an excellent choice of verses, and I appreciate everybody's response. Mick, you want would you want to pray for us?

Prayer For Healing And Steady Peace

SPEAKER_02 27:39

Absolutely. Can you remember? I don't know if you heard when Shine came, or not Shine, Farr came up, and he mentioned that he was going and have to go to the hospital again tomorrow, and he was hoping that he didn't have to stay there uh any longer than that. Did anybody else remember some of the things he said other than that, or did I get it all?

SPEAKER_00 27:59

He just said he didn't have a blood transfuse.

SPEAKER_05 28:02

He had to have a blood transfuse and he didn't want to stay overnight. Yeah. So pray for him.

SPEAKER_02 28:08

Yeah, so he's hoping he's hoping he can come back home tomorrow. He doesn't want to stay in the hospital. So um so you could tell he was bummed that he had to go, but he definitely doesn't want to have to stay. That would just add to his his uh you know his troubled spirit about his health. So uh if you keep that in prayer, that's the main thing on here tonight, if you could.

SPEAKER_03 28:26

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 28:27

All right.

SPEAKER_03 28:28

Let's pray. Dear Heavenly Father, Lord God, we just thank you for another wonderful night that you've given us to fellowship in spirit and in truth. As Lord, we know that you would not have it any other way. Lord God, tonight we just lift up Brother Far once again to you, Lord, as we will always continue to lift him up, Lord, as as things progress, Heavenly Father. Lord God, we ask that during this time, Heavenly Father, that you just be with him. Give him the peace that surpasses understanding. Know that you are perfectly sovereign. In your providence you govern all things, Heavenly Father, whether they be in heaven or whether they be on earth, Lord, and that there is not no place where you are not present. Lord, today I ask that you just be with Brother Farr during this time. Lord, whatever he's going through with his blood transfusion, Heavenly Father, I ask that every single drop of blood be effective for his body, for his body to be restored and fully generated, Lord God, to continue to complete the purpose that you have in him. Lord, as there may be anxiousness or signs of, you know, times raise low, Lord, you are our ever-present help in our time of need. And Father, we are coming to you in need of you in this moment. Lord God, just to be with Brother Farr. Please don't allow him to stay at the hospital, Lord, as it may add to his stress, the stress of his family. Lord, we just ask that everything goes smoothly. I thank you that your will be done in all matters. As Lord, that you are so intimately involved in every single aspect of our life, for we are your children. And Lord, thank you for loving us so intimately in ways that we could never understand. But the first way that we we know that you love us intimately is by you sending your son. And Lord, that as you saw how your creation was being and was denying you in all parts, you entered into creation yourself to save us and reconcile us and put us into your family, Heavenly Father. Thank you for giving us the helmet of salvation, that as we wear it securely, Heavenly Father, we know, Lord God, that you are securing our salvation, that you are the author and the finisher of our faith, that you who began a good work in us will continue it until the day of Christ Jesus. And Lord God, we really thank you for that. Oh God, we are so grateful, Heavenly Father, for your word. For if there's nothing else in this world that we can ever stand on, Lord, we know that we can stand on your promises and that your word is true. And Lord God, we thank you for that. Thank you for the peace that surpasses all understanding that's fully provided when we study your word, Lord God. We're so grateful, Lord, to be your people, to be your children, to be the ones that you redeemed, Heavenly Father. Teach us and guide us in our daily lives as we're going through this sanctification to become more like you, to be the one that you said, for it is not my will, but your will be done. And Lord, we feel and want to do the exact same. We want to be just like you and always. Thank you for conforming us into the image of your son. Thank you for loving us in times that we even feel unlovable. Thank you for your grace that is insurmountable. May we never take advantage of it, Lord God, and never we may that we may never ever use it in vain. Lord, for when we are weak, Lord God, you are strong. And I'm so thankful for that. I'm so thankful that when we call upon your name, Lord, you answer. And Lord God, you said if that if we ask anything in the name of your son, it will be done. And Lord, we put to you remembrance to your word. Not that we know that you won't complete it, Heavenly Father, but that relationally we can have a relationship with you and know that you are our ever-present help, that you are Jehovah Jireh, that you are our provider. And Lord God, we thank you for that. We lift you high, we exalt you, we glorify you. And Lord God, first and foremost, we love you and thank you for loving us, even when we are unlovable. Lord, thank you. In Jesus' mighty name I pray. Amen. Amen. Amen.

SPEAKER_00 33:03

The babies.

Closing Thoughts And Tomorrow’s Plan

SPEAKER_02 33:12

Good night, everybody. Have a good night. Have a good night, little ones. They are all right, everybody. You know, listen, I've been trying to like, well, I mean, I've been trying to do it. I've been I I just I'll just say this last thing. I try to be repetitive enough to get things to sink in your mind, but try not I try not to be overly repetitive. So I'm always working on trying to find the perfect balance because I think I think now, not saying that it does any part of the Bible that we should take less seriously than others, but I think that if you're really gonna grasp these things, these are the things to really lay hold of, you know. So um forgive me if I if I seem a little bit over repetitious sometimes, but I need to. I feel like I need to.

SPEAKER_03 33:59

So repetition right, repetition writes the word on our on our heart, Jonathan.

SPEAKER_02 34:05

It does, it does, it does. Yeah. Well, so God bless you, you guys, all tonight, and uh look forward to picking up tomorrow on verse 12. And you guys have a great night in the Lord and and have a great day tomorrow. And be provoked and be persuaded. Be persuaded.

SPEAKER_05 34:20

Good night, uh, and God bless everybody. Love y'all.

SPEAKER_06 34:24

Love y'all, love you.