WE ARE MORE THAN CONQUERORS (ROM. 8:31-39), part 3/4

John 3:16 might be the most quoted verse in the Bible, but we argue it might also be one of the most misunderstood. When Jesus said, “God so loved the world,” the first reaction wasn’t necessarily comfort, it was offense. That single word “world” explodes the idea that God’s saving purpose is limited to one people group, and it forces the question: what did Jesus mean, and why did it provoke such resistance?

We trace that tension through Scripture, moving from the promise to Abraham to Paul’s tightly linked chain in Romans 8:29-30: foreknown, predestined, called, justified, glorified. Then we tackle the phrase “whosoever believes” head-on. Is it describing human ability and free will, or is it identifying the people God brings to faith? Along the way we press the uncomfortable but clarifying idea of spiritual deadness and ask what “choice” looks like if we are dead in sin and need new life before we can genuinely trust Christ.

The conversation lands in Romans 8’s strongest comfort: Christ dies, rises, reigns, and intercedes, and nothing can separate believers from the love of Christ. We talk assurance of salvation, why Christ’s love is not transactional, and why giving God all the credit is not a side issue but the core of worship. If you’ve ever wrestled with predestination, perseverance, or whether God’s love can really hold you through suffering and failure, this one is for you.

Listen now, then subscribe, share this with a friend who quotes John 3:16, and leave a review with your answer: what do you think “whosoever believes” is really saying?

Transcript

Why John 3:16 Shocked Israel

SPEAKER_01 0:00

People, nobody here can argue that. That's what they thought, and that's how they misinterpreted even the Tanakh, the old testament scriptures. Now, this Messiah who finally arrives, he comes to his people, and they began to reject him and sought to crucify him and to kill him and to find ways, crafty ways to do it, starting with John 3.16, when he says, God so loved the world. Now, although that may be good news to you and me and every Gentile who's listening, but to the Jews, that was not good news, brother. They hated that. They didn't like that. John 3.16 was not good news, and this is right around the time they began to find ways to get rid of our Lord. They were not celebrating that statement. Because what he was saying is that to his to the what he was saying to his people, guess what? You are not my only people. I have people from every nation, tongue, creed, culture, pl state, continent on earth. To them, they were like, wait a minute, this is not what we were expecting to hear from our Messiah. Therefore, you can't be him. So I hear what you're saying, but I think you're missing, like so many people do, and I think this verse is probably the most misunderstood verse in all the Bible because it was not good news to the people who heard it. It wasn't good news because Christ was saying what he what God had promised Abraham that he was going to be, which is a father of many nations. And now the Messiah himself came and said that very thing. So he's telling them, when he says, God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, he's telling them, he's telling his own people, hey, here's something you need to know. Not only are you, my not only are you not my only people, but all the other people of the world, they are on equal footing with you. There is no difference between them and you when it comes to my father.

Equal Footing For Every Nation

SPEAKER_01 2:23

That's what John 3.16 is about.

SPEAKER_03 2:26

So let me ask you a question, bro. You know, we gotta finish the whole, you know, the whole verse. But whose soul shall believe in him?

SPEAKER_01 2:39

I get that. Yeah, that's the part. You know who believes in him? I'm gonna tell you. In John, in Romans 8 29 and 30, I think you were here one of the nights. This is what Paul says in Romans 8 29, for whom he did foreknow, them he predestinated to be conformed to the image of his son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover, whom he did predestinate, them he called, and whom he called, them he justified, and whom he justified, he glorified. These are the whosoever wills that believe. Do you agree or disagree?

SPEAKER_03 3:22

No, I agree with what you're saying, but do you see?

SPEAKER_01 3:25

There's no butt, brother.

SPEAKER_03 3:27

No, no.

SPEAKER_01 3:28

These are the people you're saying, you're you're putting in emphasis on the whosoever wills, because you believe everybody who everybody has a free will. They don't. Those who come to Christ, Paul tells you in Romans 8, 29, and 30 who they are. Those who are foreknown by God, those who are predestinated by God, those who are called by God, and these who are called are conformed to the image of his son. These are those who are the whosoevers that believe. You're right in that regard. But the idea, and I think you're going on this path, and I hope not, which is that anybody, which is true, it could be anybody, but we don't know who they are individually. But what we do know is that it's not everybody. Everybody can't be a believer, and everybody will never be a believer. Except for those whom he did foreknow, whom he predestined, who he called, who he justified, and who he glorified.

SPEAKER_03 4:27

Okay. I get it, you know, from your perspective. I get it.

SPEAKER_01 4:31

That's the biblical perspective.

SPEAKER_03 4:32

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, no, no. I totally get it. I just, you know, when I read through, you know, the old testament all the way to the gospels, you know, it's like I just never understood why he gave us, you know, the option in John 3.16.

SPEAKER_01 4:53

What option did he give us?

SPEAKER_03 4:56

That's to whomsoever believe. Why are you giving me an option right now? Because in the Old Testament, you're commanding us.

SPEAKER_01 5:06

Let me ask you a question. How do people believe? How do people in your mind, and we're gonna we'll spend a couple more, a couple, we'll spend another minute here and then we'll move on? How do you how do you believe? How would you tell somebody they're able to come to Christ? Because you're talking about options. I don't know what you mean by options. Because a person who is let me ask you a question. What options does a dead person have? You say say that what options do what options do dead people have?

SPEAKER_03 5:40

I mean, dead people, of course, they don't have options. But who God, they still have options because he holds the keys to the death of the thing.

SPEAKER_01 5:47

No, no, no, no, no, no. Paul God tells us, the scripture tells us that we are born dead. So if we are born dead, we know we're not talking about

Who Are The Whosoevers

SPEAKER_01 5:55

physical death, we're talking about a spiritual death. But you're talking about a spiritual life based on what Jesus says in John 3.16. So if Paul tells us, and the rest of the scripture tells us that we are born dead in sinning trespasses, then where do men get the will to believe?

SPEAKER_03 6:11

I mean, I he knew, like he told Jeremiah, I knew you, I formed you in your mother's womb when you were born. So he already, if we're looking at it from his point of view, that's the only point of view we can make. Yeah, yeah, it makes sense, right? Because he holds the key to life and death. He told Jeremiah, I knew you, I formed you in your mother's womb.

SPEAKER_01 6:35

So do you believe that you do you believe do you believe that that is the same for every single person ever been born?

SPEAKER_03 6:43

Absolutely. There's nothing, you know, he's never, he's always been the same, the same way he looked at Jeremiah, the same way he looked at all of us in 2026.

SPEAKER_01 6:53

So you're saying that so so what so if I listen to your reasoning, everyone is going to be saved, no one's going to hell. No, I'm not saying that. You have to say that because you just said that. You just said that.

SPEAKER_03 7:08

No, I'm just saying I'm speaking from his point of view, how he looks at, you know, because he comes from a place where uh he comes from a place where eternity. We come from a place of time. Our mind can't comp you know, we can't comprehend time.

SPEAKER_01 7:25

We can comprehend what he just said in these passages. We can certainly certainly do that. For whom he did foreknow, like you've pointed out in Jeremiah's case, those whom he knew, meaning those who he loved beforehand, those he did predestinate. Read verse 8 and 29 of this or 28 or 29 and 30 of this passage that we're reading right now. He says, For whom he did foreknow, them he did predestinate, them he predestined to be conformed to the image of his son, them he did call, them he did justify, them he glorified. Now, if I follow your logic and your reasoning, you are suggesting by what you're saying that that would mean that everybody is going to be glorified. And that would mean that no one's in hell. So that takes us back to John 3.16 when you deal with the whosoever wills that come. They are those whom God has chosen and empowered to come. Why did he have to do that? Because they were dead and were not capable of doing that on their own. Dead men have no will to live, they have to be given a new nature, and it is the new nature that wills to love Christ, to repent from sin, and to live by faith. And that is how it goes.

SPEAKER_03 8:49

No, I mean, I absolutely get your point of view. I just, you know, try to be careful not to look at everything, you know, book of Proverbs. Do not be wise in your own eyes.

SPEAKER_01 9:03

See, this is what people, this is what people always say when the argument unfolds. This is not me being proud or arrogant or whatever. I'm reading to you exactly what the word of God says. You and everybody else needs to accept this. Everybody needs to accept this. This is the word of God. No question about this. It is clear.

SPEAKER_03 9:23

No, no, absolutely. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 9:26

This is not about seeing things in different ways. We're just going strictly by what he says. And it's important for me to take time about this with this with you for ever for the benefit of not only you, but for everybody. Because Paul is here giving us guarantees on what God has said. He's giving us absolute guarantees to give Christians absolute assurance. So those who believe have been made and transformed and conformed into the image of Christ by God Himself. He did this work because we were dead, depraved, dead in our sin. Dead people have no will. Plain and simple. Go to a cemetery and ask people in tombs what they want to do next and see what answer you get. And so, in a spiritual sense, this is what is happening, and this is the most important sense. Because it is the spiritual sense where salvation is gained. And man has no will to believe. It is not until the man has been given a new nature, and that nature is the

Dead In Sin And No Will

SPEAKER_01 10:36

one that believes, not the old man, not the carnal man that is enmity against God.

SPEAKER_03 10:42

So let me ask you a question, bro. And I'm not trying to, you know, over your pan, you know, I really genuinely want to ask you this. Sure. So how do you explain the story of Lazarus being dead and Jesus Christ raising him up? Like, how does that work?

SPEAKER_01 11:00

I thought you'd never ask. When Jesus went to, when Jesus came, when Jesus was gone, the message was sent out to him that his brother is about to die. I mean, that his that their brother was about to die, Lazarus. By this time he had died, and Jesus said, I'm gonna wait one more day before I come back. Which means that he would not get back until the fourth day. The fourth day is when the death and rigor mortis and the stint of death began to set in. That way there was no certainty, there was no uncertainty whatsoever about the fact that he had died. So Christ comes back the fourth day. He once he asks, Where is Lazarus? And they said, Lord, don't worry about it. He's already dead, his body is already beginning to stink. And then what did Jesus do? He went to Lazarus, where Lazarus was laid, and he said to Lazarus, Arise, Lazarus, come forth, right? Yeah, absolutely. Did Lazarus have a choice? No, he didn't have a choice. That's making my case. Why did he not have a choice?

SPEAKER_03 12:12

Because he doesn't hold the key to life and death.

SPEAKER_01 12:15

No, that's not why he didn't have a choice. That's not why he didn't have a choice. Why did Lazarus not have a choice? This answer is very simple. Very simple.

SPEAKER_03 12:25

Yeah, he's dead.

SPEAKER_01 12:26

Yes, he's dead. Okay. Yeah, yeah. And that is the very thing that Christ used to show our spiritual condition. He says, though you were dead, yet you shall be made alive by him. He used that as an example to show us the very truth of what I'm trying to tell you right now, brother. Salvation from start to finish is completely and entirely a work of God. And no amount of pride from the part of man can diminish the glory of Christ by saying so. You enhance and you show forth the glory and praises of our Lord who does it all. I will give nothing, I will concede nothing to man's will to contribute to his salvation, especially his will. And this is what we need to understand. 834. Paul goes on. So who is he that condemns? Who is he that condemns? It is Christ that died, yes, rather that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of the God, I mean at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us. So the question of condemnation is addressed with equal force here. No one can condemn those for whom Christ has died. This is what he's saying. Who is he that condemns? It is Christ that died. Yes, rather that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God making intercession for us. What he is saying is that it is Christ who died, and because he has risen again for the death, he now makes intercession for us, so there is no one who can condemn. Why? Because Christ is the one who intercedes on our behalf, having died and rose again. No one can condemn those for whom Christ died. And that's a scary, that's a scary term. Those who are saved are those, these are they for whom Christ died. No more and no less. This is where people run for the hills. I don't care. If Christ shed his blood for you, you shall live. You will know if he shed his blood for you because you believe. You trust in him by faith. And you believe that his death has dealt with the penalty of sin that we deserve and dealt with it in the person of his son, the Lord Jesus Christ. If you believe these things, you know that you are among those for whom he died. And his exaltation to the right hand God establishes his authority. Authority over what? Us. Us. All we have to do is believe that he did it for us. And that is how we know that we are among what Brother Stud was talking about, Stuart was talking about, that we are those who are the whosoevers that will believe. That's how you know. And the ongoing intercession ensures Christ's ongoing intercession, it ensures the application of his work on our behalf. He's the one doing all the work, not me, not you. How much more, how can I glorify Christ more than to say that I had nothing to do with it? How do I glorify him as saying I had something to do with it? What I do know is that he's given me a new nature. How do I know I have a new nature? Because I hate the things that I used to do and I do the things that I hated. But I strive to want to do what is right and what is consistent with his glory. We love his truth. And so each aspect, every aspect of this reinforces the impossibility of condemnation. Paul is going through great pains to make us understand that Christ has done it all. He's done it all. The entire work of Christ, past, present, and continuing, secures the believers standing before the thrice holy God. I don't know how he can make it any any plainer, but yet he is dealing with those who seemingly continue to hold out. How do I know? Because look what he says in verse 35. Who, he's asked the question again. Here's another way. There's been a this is like the fourth time he comes with us with a different way of reaffirming the same truth. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? He's asking the question who can separate us from the love of Christ? And the answer demands the emphatic rhetorical response. None. No one. No one. And then he goes on as if that wasn't enough for the people in the back room that might not have heard the whole thing. He says, Shall tribulation first he says, who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Who? Being a person, an entity, being so he discounts that from this question. And then he goes on with to complete what he discounts as being able to separate us from the love of Christ. Shall tribulation? No. Shall distress? No. Shall persecution? No. Shall famine? Starving? Hungry? Will this separate you from the love of Christ? And notice that he says, you can go through famine, but it won't set you apart, separate you from the love of Christ. And remember that he says the love of Christ. This is going to come up again in verse 39. Shall nakedness have no clothes? Shall perum separate you from the love of Christ? No. Shall the sword separate you from the love of Christ? No. See, this is what gives me the absolute total 100% courage that I know God put in my heart to stand firmly on his truth. Amen. This is why. I'm no giant, you're no giant. None of us are. But when you believe these things, you understand you are invincible. Nothing he's telling us, there is absolutely unequivocally nothing or no one that can take us, separate us from the love of Christ. And notice he says, separate us from love of Christ. Not separate us because of our deeds or whatever. He says that what he's saying is that listen, Christ loves us. That is the grounds of our continued unity with him, a unity with him that can never be broken. It is based in his love, not in our deeds or actions, but in his love. Like I brought up about a children. Your child can do a lot of things in disobedience to you. But you don't stop loving your child because of it. We are God's children, and nobody loves stronger than him. No one. So the question now turns to separation from Christ's love. It can't be done. And then he lists a series of possible afflictions, and he lists them. And they represent the full range of human suffering and opposition. And he says, none of these things can separate us from love of Christ. And these are all very real, very severe experiences that Christian people have. We have a history of martyrdom in the Christian church. And to the degrees that these Christians

Lazarus And Monergistic Salvation

SPEAKER_01 21:22

were slain, these people, even in the flames of martyrdom, even in the stocks, even when they lost their heads under the guillotine, none of these things separated them from the love of Christ. Your brothers and sisters and mine. Will never do it. Amen. He'll never do it. Never do it. And so the love of Christ, the love of Christ, and here's what you need to understand the love of Christ is not dependent upon circumstances and cannot be broken by any type of an external trial. No matter what you do as a Christian, you cannot turn away the love of Christ. You cannot redirect the love of Christ. You cannot deflect the love of Christ. It is impossible. It's impossible. And since we are conformed, since we are conformed by the predestination of Christ, and that the purpose of that predestination was to be conformed to his image, there is no possible way that the accusation or the charge can be leveled against me or you that we want to continue in sin, that grace may abound. The same Lord that foreknew us and predestined us, he also gave us the conformity and the transformation that we have, desiring to please and obey him, and that can never be taken away. That can never be taken away. So our standing in Christ doesn't change because of the love of because the love of Christ cannot change.

SPEAKER_03 23:31

Absolutely. So basically, what you're saying, his love is not transactional at all. That's right. His love is not transactional.

SPEAKER_01 23:41

That's right.

SPEAKER_03 23:42

I agree.

SPEAKER_01 23:44

And our love brotherstood, our love that we have for him is because of the love he has for us. In other words, there's a gratitude, there's an appreciation, there's a there's a desire to be at his feet, there's a desire to serve him. This is something he put in us, and that's why he tells us, Paul tells us in Ephesians 2, we are his workmanship created in Christ, not outside of Christ, created in Christ. You know, and so it he does it all. He does it all. Whatever sin that you are dealing with right now, whatever sin you commit after the salvation you that you have, it can never undermine Christ's love. Just like a child can never undermine a parent's love. You believe that you love your children with that kind of strength, but you doubt it when it comes to God.

SPEAKER_03 24:40

Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. He said it on a cross. That's right. It is finished.

SPEAKER_01 24:45

That's right.

SPEAKER_03 24:46

His cross witness, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:48

His cross showed us the greatness, the intensity of his love, that he would go to the cross and bear the wrath of God for us. There is no greater love than this. No greater love than this. And even though our peace in this life may be disrupted, we may be a little ruffled by the winds of peril and persecution and and overwhelming situations in our lives, but it doesn't separate us from the love of Christ. None of these things can separate us from his love. And this is the this should be the number one ground of your assurance. If you are a Christian that believes you can lose your salvation, you are questioning the very love of God Himself. That's what you're doing. Just because you run away doesn't mean the parent starts loving his runaway child. Your child may run away. Are you gonna stop loving your child because they ran away? Are you gonna stop loving the child, your child because they disobey here and there and very often? No, you don't. So why do you give yourself more credit for your love for your children than God gives for his children? And he gave up his son. You gave up nothing.

SPEAKER_03 26:01

Absolutely. That's right. I I definitely agree with you, you know. Like I say, I'm just here to learn, you know, because I get, you know, when I'm at work around with my friends as a believer and a follower of Christ, you know, you know, you get these stuff get thrown at you. So, you know, iron sharpen, iron sharp is iron.

SPEAKER_01 26:27

That's right, brother.

SPEAKER_03 26:28

So, yeah, so I'm just here to learn. I'm not here to go back and forth with anybody. I don't want anybody think that. You know, I just want to learn.

SPEAKER_01 26:37

Amen, brother. Well, that's what we that's what that's exactly what we're here

No Condemnation And Christ Intercedes

SPEAKER_01 26:40

to do. And you're right, iron sharpens iron, and this is what we do. Brother Victor, you want to add anything? I want to give you an opportunity to add into the conversation. Anything you'd like to add and welcome. All right, brother Pat, how about you?

SPEAKER_00 26:56

Yeah, I'd like to say God is good all the time.

SPEAKER_02 26:59

Can you hear me? Can you hear me now?

SPEAKER_01 27:01

Yeah, I can. Hold on one second, I'll come back to you. You are you, Pat? Are you done, Pat? Yep, that's all I had to say. God is good. All right. Uh, Victor, go ahead, brother.

SPEAKER_02 27:11

Yes, I was on mute. My heart, my heart really rejoices to hear what you're saying because of the way the world is going now. All the sciences, all biology, they tend to go forward. They tend, but theology is kind of like going backwards, and so I rejoice. What I want, I had a lot of things I wanted to comment on, but for a lot of time, I'll go to John 3:16. For God so loved the world, the soul there, it's not God so much so really love, it's there's in this manner, so it's in this manner. How then he goes to describe how Christ died. Right, and now the test comes. Whosoever believes, now that is a test. God is a God of tests. If you go back to reading, like he says, compare scripture with scripture. If you go back to read that we are there's non-righteous, no, not one. Keep that in your head, whatever you do, then you come to believe, accept. You say, God, right? I can do none of this, right? I can I can believe that's right now, because it is God that has to do the believing for you. That means He has to save you for you to believe. That makes me so happy when I hear you explaining these things, which very rare, very rare. Everybody wants to get some kind of credit. They want to say, I accepted, I answered when he called me. I felt a spirit, I did this, I did that. You did what God is saying, you were dead in spirit, right, brother. You were actually dead in spirit. So, how could a dead person add to what God is doing? God says, and and what I like about the whole point is we start from not being deserving at all. We go from not being deserving to inheriting eternal life. There's nothing, nothing better than that.

SPEAKER_01 29:33

Thank you, brother Victor. Hang around, brother. I like the way you talk. You say you say the truth, you speak the truth. Thank you, gentlewoman copper. Would you like to add anything, sister?

SPEAKER_04 29:45

I don't think I've ever heard anyone explain these verses to this depth. And I don't think I've ever heard it to this depth and accepted it deeply to this depth that I have today.

SPEAKER_01 30:03

Does it make sense to you? Does it make sense to you?

SPEAKER_04 30:05

Oh my god, oh my gosh. It's Holy Spirit, thank you. Thank you, thank you. Right. Because yes, I mean, I thought I understood it before, but no, I understand it now. I get it.

SPEAKER_01 30:19

Good new, great news, sister. Amen, sister.

SPEAKER_04 30:21

I'm so I mean, I have goose pumps from head to toe right now.

SPEAKER_01 30:25

Oh, you're a sweet lady, and you know what? You belong to the Lord, we all belong to the Lord, and we know that it's Him. If you ever want to answer to your question of any question, it's Him. It's Christ, it's what the Lord did, what He did. Nothing to do with us. We just we just we just accept it and we believe it. This is our work. This belief, obedience to faith, this is our deed, Sister Copper.

SPEAKER_04 30:57

Yes. I think confused acceptance with belief. You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_01 31:03

Yep, I do.

SPEAKER_04 31:05

And now it's like, oh man, man, was I wrong?

SPEAKER_01 31:12

That's okay, sister, because that's why we that's why we fellowship together. That's why we fellowship, sister.

SPEAKER_04 31:17

I needed this today.

SPEAKER_01 31:18

Well, you come back as often as you like.

SPEAKER_04 31:20

This this has strengthened me for sure.

SPEAKER_01 31:23

Good. I'm glad to hear I'm glad to hear it.

SPEAKER_02 31:25

Good to hear that.

SPEAKER_01 31:27

Brother Pat, you got something you wanted to add. Go ahead, brother.

SPEAKER_00 31:32

Yeah, you know, what is worship? Worship is giving glory or credit to someone, you know,

Nothing Separates Us From Christ’s Love

SPEAKER_00 31:40

and we read early in Romans 1 that God has revealed him through himself through nature, and instead of worshiping God, they turned and gave the glory or the credit to the things that were created rather than the creator.

SPEAKER_01 31:55

Right.

SPEAKER_00 31:55

Well, we see this in religion all the time. There's people calling themselves Christians that in all sorts of areas I chose him. What let me tell you something. If there's anything that you are take keeping for yourself, then that's idol worship, and you're the idol. That's right. Just just put plainly, you have never thought a right thought in your life except for the grace of God. So give him glory.

SPEAKER_05 32:34

Yeah, it's a beautiful thing when you just come to this knowledge and you have peace with it. You know, there's nothing, we didn't choose life to begin with. And when we entered into this world, we didn't have to accept the fact that we were born. We received life when we came into this world and we took our first breath. And likewise, we receive life and there is no acceptance to it. You know, what God has willed is what will come to pass. Right. And so I think that it's important for us to understand that the glory goes to

Worship, God Gets All The Credit

SPEAKER_05 33:20

God and his love for us. Because if it wasn't that, then we'd all be have our place in hell.

SPEAKER_01 33:27

Yep. Amen, sister. Absolutely. Look at verse 36. Paul, he goes back to the old testament, and he's telling these, he's telling these, you know, these Jews of his day, he's saying, listen, what I'm telling you should not be new to you. He goes back to the old covenant, he goes back to the old prophets, and he says, he quotes in verse 836, he says, as it is written, quoting Isaiah, for thy sake, we are killed all the day long. We are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. As sheep for the slaughter. And so, what he points out here is simple.