INTRODUCTION: Romans 9-11, part 4/4

If you’ve ever felt torn between “God is sovereign” and “my choices matter,” Romans 9 through 11 doesn’t let you stay fuzzy for long. We walk through Paul’s argument that God removes every ground for boasting so salvation can be seen for what it is: sheer mercy. Not your background. Not your religious intensity. Not your heritage. Not your effort. Mercy.

We also talk about why Paul ends these chapters in worship, not a neat philosophical bow. When you follow the logic of election, providence, Israel, Gentile inclusion, judgment, and compassion, you don’t arrive at God owing anyone anything. You arrive at awe. Along the way, we share real reactions from the panel: the shock of grace, the comfort of assurance, and the humbling reality that if salvation depended on us, we’d be done for.

A big practical thread runs through the conversation too: how to study the Bible with patience, how the Holy Spirit brings clarity, and why popular frameworks like dispensationalism and rapture hunting can distract from what the text actually says. We also name the relational cost many of us feel when we bring these truths to friends, family, or even pastors who don’t want to go there.

If you’re ready to read Romans with fresh eyes and a steadier confidence in Christ, listen now, share this with a friend who loves Scripture, and leave a review telling us what part challenged you most.

Transcript

Mercy Over Merit In Salvation

SPEAKER_06 0:00

Closer to God. Because of your skin, where you were born, and your perception of value, spiritual values, whatever that may be. The Christian church and the dispensational movement, these are aiders and abettors and abettors in the continued perpetual unbelief of that nation that now carries that name. Here we are. And so Paul points out to his own brothers and sisters, you guys can't boast about your ancestry. It's not going to get you anywhere. You can't boast about the law. You can't boast, you can't boast about your works, or your religious zeal, or your human, you know, nor human willing can establish any claim to God. There's nothing you can do to claim anything. We have no grounds of boasting for our having been reconciled to God. And so Paul points out that all people are shut up under unbelief so that salvation may be revealed to be the result of God's mercy. I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So he must remove the grounds for boasting. By necessity, he has to do that in order that salvation may be received as an act of mercy. Because if he has to give you salvation best based on ethnicity or origin or or attachment to a you know a piece of land, then you would therefore have grounds for boasting. And he's saying you don't. And he tells the Gentiles, you can't boast either because you were grafted in. You were grafted in. You earn no way, you earn no grounds for salvation. So Jew and Gentile are alike or in the same boat. All grounds for boasting, Paul points out, is gone. Why? In order that God's salvation, when given to any man, is understood to be an act solely and squarely upon his mercy. Not on any deeds or any privilege that is outward or external. That does not have to do with faith. And this is why this session does not conclude with some kind of philosophical resolution of every single mystery, but it ends with worship. Worshiping the one who gave up his life for all of us. And Paul ends up closing it by saying, Oh, the depth of the riches, both of the wisdom and knowledge of God. And so the proper destination of the doctrines of election, God's providence, Israel, Gentile inclusion, judgment, and mercy is not about speculation, but about adoration. Everything points to God. His judgments exceed all human searching and understanding. And his ways transcend all human comprehension. No creature, as we are told, no creature has instructed him. And no one has first given to him so that God should become in debt to any man or any people. God is not in debt to the Jew, he's not in debt to the Gentile. Who he receives, it is because he has received them and has ordained their salvation from before the foundation of the world. And so, Romans 9 through 11, as we're going to go through it, these chapters, they ultimately vindicate God's absolute sovereignty, his righteousness, his wisdom, his mercy, and his faithfulness. And so for of him, Paul says in another place, for of him and through him, and to him are all things to whom be glory forever and ever. Amen. So

Setting Up Romans 9 Through 11

SPEAKER_06 5:16

this is my brief uh introduction, which I decided to put together some notes on this, as we prepare to get into these chapters. And so the next discussion we're gonna have is gonna be going through Romans 9, 1 through 5. And I'm gonna go into and going into go through another issue of promises made to Israel and them being fulfilled or not, going through the history of the Old Testament and the New before I get through Romans 9.6 through the end of the through the end of uh 11 and on forward. Because I just want to make sure this is something that I turn upturn every stone. I don't I don't want to leave anything unchecked, undealt with. And so because so many people like to say, well, he didn't use scripture. I'm gonna use scripture to prove everything that I'm gonna say. And that's why I'm gonna take time to put in these parenthetical overviews so that we can understand what's in the text. But these parenthetical overviews I'm also taking from scripture. So I want to make sure that I give you everything you need to either understand the truth or if you think to help supply you with a defense against it. Either way, I think that as we read it together, we will probably all, for the most part, come to a reasonable agreement as to what these words and what Paul's epistle is actually teaching. But here's what I want to say this, and I'll stop here and I'll let you guys talk. Remember how Paul started Romans 9. He started Romans 9 by saying he had a great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart. And when it comes to how so many people interpret 9 through 11, if you think about it, if you follow their interpretations, Paul would have no reason to have great heaviness and a continual sorrow in his heart. But he does. And he does because he understands what it is they are seeing and understanding, and he knows it is inconsistent with what God had disclosed to Paul. He now knows and says, I am an example of how God still has keeps his promises. And he was assured of that. And he wants them to understand with assurance the very same thing he now understands with assurance, which his word teaches us that we too can be assured. And that's what we have been reading from Romans 1 through Romans 8. So I appreciate your kind attention. I know I talked more than I usually do in these in this in this setting and have responses, but I wanted to get this out so that we can really set up the foundation for these the two chapters where I'm sure these three chapters where I know we're gonna have a lot of a lot of discussions about.

The Shock Of Grace That Saves

SPEAKER_06 8:10

So, Brother Jeff, your thoughts at this point.

SPEAKER_05 8:13

My thoughts are exactly as you say, and the thing is, I mean, you know, it's it's I had another thought, but as usual, it escaped my mind. But the thing is, what you're saying is truth. You always say truth, brother. You know, and you know what I hear is that I I know the thought just came back. To me, it's not a wonder that God would choose some to salvation. What's a wonder to me is that he chooses anyone to salvation. I knew you'd like that because it's true.

SPEAKER_06 8:46

It's true, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 8:47

It's true. And it, you know, and again, people talk about all this and that, and I'm thinking, you know, if it were up to me to be saved, forget it, I'm going to hell. You know, I need God to come and take care of it for me. I told people in my live tonight, I said, look, I said, God does all the work. You know, I mean, thank God for that, because there's no way you can't pull yourself out of the water and drown yourself.

SPEAKER_06 9:13

Right.

SPEAKER_05 9:14

You know, and uh I'm excited about this. I mean, you know, actually, I'm in Bible study fellowship, you know that. Well, we start next month. Guess what we're studying this year?

SPEAKER_06 9:23

What's that?

SPEAKER_05 9:24

Romans. Yeah. So I'm gonna get double dose, but you know, I love Romans, man. It's my favorite book. I will be here and I'm telling you, everything you're saying is right on.

SPEAKER_06 9:37

Good, brother. I look forward to your contribution on this on this discussion uh that we're gonna be having in the next few weeks. So I'll look forward to it whenever you can attend it. Once again, brother, congratulations on your engagement.

SPEAKER_05 9:48

Yeah, well, well, but all I want to just say about that is I've been praying for so many years, and actually I was involved with a scammer a while back and finally surrendered to the Lord. I said, Lord, okay, I give up. I said, if you want me to be single, I'll be single. And all of a sudden, I met her, and uh, she's everything I could ever hope for. Now, people say she's younger than I am. Well, duh. You know, I didn't, I uh, you know, I told people, I said, I didn't put in a request for God for an age. You know, I just put in a request for a God who loves God more than me. So anyway, thank you very much, and everybody who gave us well wishes. You know, we're trying to be slow, follow God's leading in this. And let me tell you, she's already making me a better man, so there you go.

SPEAKER_06 10:33

That's what she has to do. All right, brother, thank you for that. Brother

Seeking Scripture Over Labels

SPEAKER_06 10:37

Eric, Brother Eric, have I told any lies so far?

SPEAKER_04 10:41

Oh no, bro, on point. I mean, that's yeah, no doubt. I mean, you know, the the scriptures speak for themselves, beloved. You know what I mean? And I think a lot of I think a lot of the problem is is we don't take the time to ask, seek and find. Like Jesus literally told us that. And I just think, bro, like if you don't, if you don't allow the Holy Spirit, bro, to show you what the scriptures were really saying, that you just take the time, like just don't read it like a comic book, right? Look between, look, look, right, look, look beyond, bro, what's really being said, bro. Like, just study. He said that. He told us, rightly divide, right? Study to show yourself, man. I mean, I'm it's just it's it's I tell people this book is the greatest seek and find. It's like, for me, it's like the greatest worst waldo. And and the Bible literally says the deep cause into the deep, bro. Right. You know what I mean? And so, yeah, you definitely on point. I'm excited to see um, you know, and he hear, you know, what father's gonna speak to you. Because not many, but listen, I think a lot of people are really kind of scared to to go through the the predestinated thing and and and all that because you you you kind of you kind of understand that this isn't based on your choice. No, I think it needs to be. Right? This is this is based this is based on his choice. Right. Amen. And where it gets where it gets even more profound is when you think about the 12. I tell people this all the time. We listen, from the beginning, humanity never chose God. Humanity never chose God. All right, so Adam never he willfully disobeyed, Israel rejected him. Humanity has never chose God, bro. And he said, I chose you 12 and one as the devil. And when you really think about that, Jesus knew he was a thief and made the treasurer, bro. Like, like, and kept telling him, and you know, this is so profound, and I'll end the plane here, is when you think about God's sovereignty and what you're about to talk about, and I'll be here, bro. I'm I'm I'm I'll I'll be here one, bro. Battle buddy, brother. I told you, brother. It's one of them things, bro. We I'm I'm I'm here to support and and and just allow the Holy Spirit, man, to use me. But listen, it's what it really boils down to is this right here, God's sovereignty.

SPEAKER_06 13:04

Amen, brother. That's what God's sovereignty. You you you we cannot over we cannot over-glorify our Lord. We can't. We can't glorify him enough. And and we see it, we see his glory and his sovereignty most illustrious in our salvation. And so, brother, I welcome you to be here as often as you like. I know you got your own things you get you're working on and you're doing with your folks, and so anytime you give us, we'll appreciate. I know I certainly will.

SPEAKER_04 13:31

Thank you, Bob. I appreciate each and every one of you. And and like I said, Jonathan, when I first came to this crazy app, right, it's a wild app, right? You learn a lot, right? Good and bad. But when I first came here, brother, God put you on my heart, bro, and that still hasn't changed, beloved. You know, I mean, it's just it's what what God is have what he has got me doing, bro, is just increased, and it's just one of those things, man.

SPEAKER_06 13:58

And I give him the glory and we gotta we got dividing, we got divide and conquer. That's what that's what's happening.

SPEAKER_04 14:04

Amen. Thank you again, brother. I love you guys. God bless you.

SPEAKER_06 14:07

Thank you, brother. Terry, what are your thoughts?

Finding A Home In Sovereignty

SPEAKER_01 14:12

I just am enjoying this so much. For the first time in my life, I feel like I'm I'm a fish in the water instead of a fish out of the water. I right from the beginning, I believed in the sovereignty of God. I believed in election. I bel I never believed I could lose my salvation. Every single thing that you've said has has validated what I felt right from the beginning when I first opened up the Bible for the first time. But I I I I was raised in an atheist family and I and I went into a a f a gospel Pentecostal situation, Arminian, lose your salvation. I thought I was wrong. And I was always trying to fit in, and I never did. I never could. And I just feel at home. I never felt this way before.

SPEAKER_06 15:17

It's it's you are at home, sister. You're definitely my family, so you you are definitely at home.

SPEAKER_01 15:25

I could I could cry really. I just I'm so grateful. Thank you guys.

SPEAKER_06 15:29

Those kind of tears are always welcome, sister. We share them with you. So you definitely got family, whether you like it or not. Whether you like it or not. Lisa, what do you think?

Rethinking Dispensational Teaching

SPEAKER_02 15:43

Well, I think this has been a great teaching again, Jonathan. All the things that you talk about. I agree with what Brother Eric just said. If there's not enough asking, seeking, and knocking among the American church. You know, people like to sit under a pastor and let him tell them what to believe and how to interpret things. And I'm so grateful that God led me to this app, led me to you people in this live. And when we read, it makes sense. Before trying to read the scripture, it didn't make sense. Searching for pre-trib, searching for the rapture, and where is the seven-year tribulation? Where is all of these things? And they're not there. Man, and it's like, how do you? I and I looked, I searched because I wanted to believe those doctrines. I mean, think about it. If God would come and just whip us all out of here, hallelujah. I I would have, you know, but we know that's not going to happen. And I'm willing, and I just want to partake in anything that Jesus has for me.

unknown 16:55

Right.

SPEAKER_02 16:56

All the suffering, all the learning, all the loss, the loss of friends, family, whatever it takes, he's worth it all. The truth. He is the truth, and the truth shall set you free. I am free indeed. I'm telling you that. Amen. Hallelujah.

SPEAKER_06 17:14

These

Why These Truths Make People Angry

SPEAKER_06 17:15

things that we're about to, these things that we have started to talk about and are about to engage engage in more and more depth, these are not, let me tell you something. These are not things that your friends and family are going to want to hear you talk about. These are things that pastors don't even want to talk about. So get ready. Because you're gonna you're gonna either have to believe that this is completely wrong and that and that me and whoever you find in agreement with us here, total frauds. What I'm gonna be talking about in these chapters is not popular. I would not talk and preach about these things and teach on these things if I were looking at getting a bunch of numbers. Not this book, not if you're gonna tell it and tell the whole council. Because people don't like to hear it. They don't want to hear it because man does not like the idea of being given over into the hands of the Lord solely and completely. They want to have God to have some kind of debt that he owes to them. I decided this. I decided this. So that's what's gonna happen. I'm going to allow the Lord to have me. And if I allow him to have me, now he's in debt to me. My sister Vicky, I know you wouldn't come up here. Oh no, she left. Okay, I thought she had something she wanted to say. Okay. But anyway. So, so, but what I'm what I'm telling you guys is this. You're not these things, if they resonate with you, just know this. Even though they are intended to give us assurance and confidence, people who you're going to talk to, they are going to hate it. They shouldn't. It should be the grounds for confidence and boldness and assurance. But you're gonna know when you take these truths and you go and talk to your family and friends, or you talk to your pastor, and say, hey, you gotta you gotta help me understand this. This this this crazy guy that's always bloviating on TikTok, he's saying he's saying these things. Are they true? This it sounds like it makes sense. Is it true? Don't listen to that stuff, that's just that Calvinistic stuff, or that's just that stuff, or these people, or the hyper-grace people, and the antinomian people, and this and that, and the other people, all these labels. And this even pastors. And when you experience it, you're gonna know exactly why Paul says to his people, I have great heaviness and continue, continual sorrow in my heart. His sorrow and his heaviness has to do with the fact that they don't understand the simplicity that is in Christ. He doesn't know how to reach them. He doesn't know how to make them see these things as something that is that are supremely beneficial to their souls. He wants them to know what he knows. And you all know what I'm talking about, because we all want our family and friends and loved ones and children and and parents, and we all want them to know. And when they don't, and it frustrates you, and you're in tears and you're in prayer, and you're you know having other people pray, it's because you are experiencing exactly what Paul is experiencing great heaviness and continued sorrow. Because they don't see what you see as being obvious. That's what he's going through. So you'll see it when you when you when you start understanding these things for yourselves and then communicating them as you go. Vanessa.

The Holy Spirit Makes Scripture Clear

SPEAKER_03 21:17

You know, I'm sitting here thinking, you know, we really do have to bleed the word of God. We have to bleed it out of our soul, out of our pores, just like Jesus said. You know, he he bled for us, so we need to bleed for him. We need to give what he wants us to give and stop being so hooked up on dispensationalism. I know because I've lived it, and there is no way on this green earth that you can understand anything without the Holy Spirit. No way, no how. And God uplifted us and he gave us the spirit so that we can be where he wants us to be. It's our comfort, it's our teacher, it's anything and everything that we need. And if you read the word with the spirit in mind, then you will understand exactly what God wants you to understand. It's not hard. It's a simple thing. I'm a simple person. Yep, yep. And it's simple. It's just simple. And you know, I just praise God for everything, and I am so blessed. And I'm just so grateful for everything that God gives me.

SPEAKER_06 22:40

And we're we are blessed to have you with us as often as you are. We are always blessed. I'm thankful for all of you guys. Sister Meg, your thoughts.

Humility Before A Holy God

SPEAKER_00 22:52

You know what Eric said when the Lord Jesus Christ said, of the 12 I have chosen you, and one of you is a devil. But wait a minute. The Lord said that he chose the twelve. So did he choose a devil?

SPEAKER_06 23:09

Yes. He did.

SPEAKER_00 23:11

He did. And so when we think about what we're about to talk about in these chapters, it is very humbling because we are talking about the God of the universe, the creator of all things. We don't take the word of God lightly. And I think what happens is throughout our journey, sometimes we lose our fear of the Lord, the reverence for his holiness and his righteousness. And we downplay it to want to put something into our own heads of a God that we want to serve. But when you open the word, you will meet him. And he is who he is. You can't add anything to him, you can't take any way anything away from him. God is sovereign and he's holy and he's righteous. The other thing that I wanted to say is I don't think that there's not anybody in this panel or in this room that has ever not been an error before. And it's very humbling because nobody wants to be wrong. But at the same time, sometimes we have to go through things in our journey where we are deceived for a moment or a time, or we are wrong because now we're the people that the Lord grants to help people see the way out. Sometimes you got to go through things because you're the person that's gonna see them out. And when you got when you went and and you know, you when you were in dispensationalism, I'll never forget that you said, I promised the Lord that I would never ever allow what has happened to me to anybody else. And you're very passionate about that, brother. And I love that. And so, to those of you that are in the live that may have been deceived or may have been through wrong information, are you willing to let it all go and let it all come away until the only thing that remains is the Lord Jesus Christ Himself? And my answer was yes when that question was asked to me. And so God bless you guys for coming in tonight. I pray you guys continue to come in with us and uh are we gonna pray out?

SPEAKER_06 25:51

Yeah, I'm

Daily Drills For Faith And Witness

SPEAKER_06 25:52

having you in a second, but I just want to just you know say one thing. You know, you know that we live in a in a very precarious time, and it it is necessary for us as believers to sort of unravel ourselves from this slumber that we're in as a collective people. And anything, any benefit, any blessing, any treasure that can be given to us a lost soul to make them see these things that we've come to understand is going to come through our work as commissioned by God to happen through us. You know, we want to be useful to our king, and we need to become experts at wielding the sword, which is his word. And so we need uh to stay in these uh daily uh drills of building ourselves up in this most holy faith through the reading of scripture, through prayer, uh, through word studies, like our brother Eric know he does a lot of through meditations, through fellowship, through talking about these things, reasoning with one another, not the bickering, not not all that nonsense, but constructive discussions about these things. And at the end of the day, every one of these discussions that we have, they need they need to follow to such a degree that the conclusion is always a more elevated perspective and a more elevated love for our Lord and Savior. As Pat, our brother says a lot, he talks about we need to have, we need to improve upon, and I'm paraphrasing, our Christology. Christ needs to be the central theme of everything we say and do. As difficult as that may be in this worldly place that we live in, but when it comes to dealing with and handling the word of God, we need to seek to be as precise as possible. And that's why I am probably a pain in a lot of people's backside. But it's not because uh I want that or like that. It's for what Make just says we all need to be the strongest advocates of the highest glory of our Lord and make that be our clarion call, his gospel about him to go out to every person, Jew and Gentile. And not put this light that we have uh under a bushel. But to speak out because you'd be surprised how many people can't wait and don't even know that they can't wait to hear you say something that they weren't expecting you to say but needed you to say it. Do not be afraid because in all things we are more than conquerors. And that's the big message that Paul is pointing out in this book of Romans, period. So we need to be thoughtful of these things. I want to, you know, just say, acknowledge a few people that are in the that are in the chat that you know don't come up on the panel very often, but I just want you to know that I I see you. Beginning of a new me. Thank you for your generous attention and your time and your ears. So, Ro Lefty, thank you. Joseph, as always, Jeff, I mean Jess, Pamela, Brother Cy, Yes I, you know, all you all all of you, I'm so grateful that you give me so much of your time. It's a blessing to me and it's an encouraging to me. So I just want, you know, everybody, you you all too who are in the who are in the in the chat box, I just want you to know that I that you two are in my prayers, and I'm not just saying that it is true. It's really true, as God is my witness, it's true. And so God bless you all. Uh, Meg, uh, would you mind closing us up?

SPEAKER_00 30:28

Absolutely. Let's bow

Prayer And Final Blessing

SPEAKER_00 30:31

our heads and pray. Dear Heavenly Father, thank you, Lord God, for another evening of edification in your word. Lord, I just ask that as we get into these chapters of your Holy Scripture, Lord God, that you continue to change us. As we know your word does change us, Heavenly Father. And Lord, for anybody who's who's been deceived or get given misinformation, Lord, I pray for them. I pray for their understanding. I ask, Lord, that your Holy Spirit continue to guide us through this exposition of Romans, Lord God, as we go into the Word and exposite it. Lord, I thank you for everything that you're doing in and through your people, Lord God. I thank you that you are keeping us steadfast, Lord. I thank you that you are keeping us bold. Thank you for keeping us aligned together and unified as one body of believers, Lord God, that you have created. I thank you for your son, that he is the good shepherd of us all. And his voice we will only hear. Sometimes, Lord, there are time there are times when we do deal with things that are hard. But Lord, your spirit makes it easy as we can rest in you, Lord God, when we know these things. And the closer we get to your sovereignty and your holiness and your righteousness and the very essence and core of who you are, we sleep better at night, knowing that you did not give us the spirit of fear, but of power, love, and a sound mind. To never be ashamed of the gospel, Lord God, to allow it to continue to go forth as you see fit to bring every single sheep to your fold, Lord. For it is the will of the Father that you lose no not one. Help us to be your hands and feet each and every day as we continue to minister your word as you give us the breath to do it, Lord God. I love you, Lord. I thank you for everything that you're doing. You are glorious and holy and righteous, Father. And I ask all of this and nothing but the holy and precious name of your Son, Jesus Christ. Amen.

SPEAKER_06 32:48

Amen. He be glorified in all things, right? So God bless you all, Brother Eric and Jeff. It's been a while since you guys have been here, so I'm glad and thankful that you came up, and you're always welcome here, as you both know that. So, you know, continue to bless me whenever you can and the rest of us, because it'll be appreciated. God bless everybody tonight, and look forward to our gathering again as we start to get into this book, this chapter of Romans 9. God bless you all. Good night. God bless you. Good night, everybody.