Daniel's 70 Weeks: The Covenants (Dan. 9), part 2/4

If you’ve ever heard someone say, “I’m saved by grace but I still keep the law,” you’ve also heard the confusion that follows. We press that claim until it becomes specific: Are we talking about the Ten Commandments, the whole Mosaic law, or something else entirely? And if “keeping” means we do not break God’s law, where does that leave daily sin, repentance, and the need for Jesus?

We then zoom out to the covenant question that drives so many debates in Christian theology: are there two covenants or many? The panel wrestles with covenant language, dispensational assumptions, and the way people list Noah, Abraham, Moses, and David as if each one sets a new path to salvation. Galatians 3 and Galatians 4 bring the focus back to promise versus law, and Hebrews 9 and Hebrews 10 force the issue with plain wording about the first covenant and the new covenant Christ mediates. The heart of the conversation is simple but weighty: the law cannot save, and Christ establishes a covenant grounded in grace, promise, and faith.

Finally, we tackle a line that pops up constantly online: “faith is obedience to the law.” We argue over definitions, make key distinctions between Mosaic law and the law of Christ, and insist that the object of faith is Jesus Christ alone. If you want a clearer, more biblical way to talk about law and grace, and a more confident grasp of justification by faith, this one will sharpen you. Subscribe for more conversations like this, share the episode with a friend who loves these debates, and leave a review if it helped you think more clearly. Where do you draw the line between honoring God’s law and adding it to the gospel?

Transcript

Can Christians “Keep” The Commandments

SPEAKER_02 0:00

I'm just saying like it's like you definitely can't cancel out Moses in the Ten Commandments. Like it it would be hard to. So that's why I say what do you mean cancel him out? Because you can't. I mean, you can't. Like a lot of people feel like, oh yeah, you be forgiven. You can just murder, shurder, do this, do that, steal, lie.

SPEAKER_07 0:22

All right. So so so the the issue here is you still have a hang up about the law. Let me ask you a question. Do you keep the law?

SPEAKER_02 0:31

I keep the Ten Commandments.

SPEAKER_07 0:33

What do you mean by keep them?

SPEAKER_02 0:36

Because they're near and dear to my heart.

SPEAKER_07 0:37

So everybody, whoever, whoever, if you if your phone, if you've got a lot of noise in the background, please, if you don't mind, please mute your your microphone because it really is loud when you come through the system. Okay. So Nicole, the the the law. You said you keep it. What do you mean by you keep it?

SPEAKER_02 0:59

I keep the commandments. What do you mean you keep it? How? Because they're written on my heart. Like it's no way I don't want to steal to you. I don't know. I don't want to steal from you. I don't want to lie to you. Honor my mother, my father.

SPEAKER_07 1:14

So you don't so right now as a Christian, you don't sin?

SPEAKER_02 1:18

I'm not gonna say I don't sin. I mean it depends on what transgression of the law. Yeah. No, I if it just if if we can just if I if I can just be held to those 12, I'm cool.

SPEAKER_07 1:34

So if you can just be held to those 10.

SPEAKER_02 1:37

12. 12.

SPEAKER_07 1:39

What 12? What are you talking about?

SPEAKER_02 1:41

The other two, the two we hang on. Loving God the way he loves us and loving everybody else as well.

SPEAKER_07 1:49

But here's Nicole, here's what I'm asking. Because and here's the reason why I'm pressing you, sister, because you told me a couple sessions back that you talk to people about the gospel everywhere you go. And I'm curious as to what you tell them. Because here you're not answering simple questions. So my question to you again is this what do you mean by you keep the law?

SPEAKER_02 2:20

I hang on the the two laws.

SPEAKER_07 2:22

I love God. What does that mean you hang on?

SPEAKER_02 2:26

I keep them. I keep them. I love God the way he loves me, and I love everybody else's life.

SPEAKER_07 2:30

So you so what I'm asking is this are you saying is there a difference between how you are interpreting keeping the law and being obedient to the law? Is there a difference?

SPEAKER_02 2:42

No, it's it because if I love God, then I can't, it's it's almost like I can't transgress. Because it grieves my heart, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_07 2:51

No, it doesn't. It doesn't. So what here's what I'm here's here's everybody else bear with me for a little bit because we I gotta get

Two Covenants And Church Confusion

SPEAKER_07 3:00

bring this home. This has to cut this has to come to a a because if we can't understand if we can't even say that we have two covenants when our Bible is described as having two covenants in it, what is going on with the Christian church?

SPEAKER_02 3:18

Well, I said that.

SPEAKER_07 3:19

I mean, I'm not No, you didn't. What you said was I will go along with that for argument's sake.

SPEAKER_02 3:26

So I kind of understand the two covenants. I understand my grace. I get it.

SPEAKER_04 3:31

But I kind of agree with her on the case. What do you believe, when we talk about the covenants? It depends on how you're looking at the covenants. I mean, if you're looking at the old testament and then the new testament, that is two covenants, but then when you look at the old testament, there was covenants within the old testament. So I mean, if we What covenants are you talking about, brother?

SPEAKER_03 3:53

We had the just say the He's talking about the Noadic, the Abrahamic.

SPEAKER_07 4:00

No, no, no. I want to hear him say it. Don't help him out. I want to hear him say it. What are the other covenants?

SPEAKER_04 4:05

Yeah, that is it, the Mosadic, the May, see, see? Yeah, the new covenant, the I mean the Adamatic or however you pronounce it.

SPEAKER_07 4:15

All right, so let's so so then why do we call it, why do we call the Old Testament scriptures the old covenant or the old testament? Why do we say it again? We call it the old, we why do we call it the old cut the old testament, which is the old covenant? Testament and covenant mean the same thing.

SPEAKER_04 4:31

Yeah, I mean, I guess we're saying that because the old covenant embodies all of the other covenants, and we made it just one. You know what I'm saying? We made the old covenant just one covenant.

SPEAKER_07 4:42

But let's take, for example, let's let's say, let's say the dispensationalists are are right. Let's say that we no, I know they're wrong, but let's say that we we're gonna give them that argument. Where do you see any such covenant, especially cited as a covenant in the old testament? The the Adamic or the Abrahamic or the Mosaic. All the scripture tells us is that every one of these people in this old covenant who were faithful, they were all faithful to the same God, the same Messiah, who they expected, and that was their covenant. And they and they and get God gave them the law to obey for righteousness. That was the covenant that he made with Israel. He didn't make a ship. Yeah,

Promise Versus Law In Galatians

SPEAKER_07 5:35

go ahead, Johnny.

SPEAKER_01 5:36

Yeah, it's very simple. Okay, God, it says in Galatians chapter 4, Abraham had two sons, one by the Bob, one by the free woman. There's two covenants, one by the law and one by the promise. The promise was given to Abraham in Genesis chapter 12. He promised him offspring, land, um offspring, which is descendants of the stars of heaven, land, blessing of all nations, and a great nation. Okay? Those are the four key promises. Now, in that, you get to the Davidic covenant, which is linked to the Abrahamic covenant, but they're different covenants, but they're although pointing to the same thing.

SPEAKER_07 6:15

So but what I'm trying to get out, Johnny, what I'm trying to get at is what I'm trying to understand is you you this this distinction between a covenant between Abraham or Adam and Moses and David, all these people.

SPEAKER_01 6:32

Yeah, that's dispensationalism. They they they they don't they they look at they they they think that God's working in timelines. But that's isn't that what you were just doing though? Isn't that what you were just saying? No, no, no, that's not. I'm talking I'm covenant theolog theologian. I I I I follow the Piper view. I I'm not, I don't, I don't, I'm a pre-mill, but I'm not a dispensational pre-mill. I don't make those descriptions of the dispensary. All right, go ahead. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_04 6:53

Johnny, when you would you consider, would you Johnny, would you consider Johnny, would you consider a covenant? Would you consider a covenant that was made according to the flood?

SPEAKER_01 7:07

No, that that's not a that's that's not a covenant. No, there's that's not a covenant, man. That that the the the although that Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord, that's the new covenant. That's the covenant based on grace, faith, and the promise. Paul says that in Romans chapter 4. That's his argument. He says that Abraham was justified by faith. Faith in what? The promise of God. He believed and it was counted. The law was given 430 years after the promise. We can't have the law term as to nullify.

SPEAKER_04 7:34

I guess what I'm asking when we look at the when we look at covenants, when when God does something and he came back and and told man, look, I won't do this again. I would do it another way. I mean, you don't think that's a covenant with mankind that he would not destroy it. If you could show me it's a covenant, I will believe you.

SPEAKER_07 7:57

Let me read something here out of Hebrews. I'm kind of glad we're taking this detour because you know, I I want to stay back in Daniel 9, but if we can't understand this, I don't, I, I don't, I don't know how to do it.

SPEAKER_01 8:13

Go to Galatians chapter 4. There's two covenants. The book of Hebrews says the old and the new. Christ took away the old to establish the new.

SPEAKER_07 8:19

I understand that, but I'm I'm sure that everybody here who's talking about this has read that and they will weasel out of this in some kind of way and say, well, yeah, but, but, but, but. But this is this is what we do today. This is what Christianity does today. We always, whenever somebody starts saying but, but, but, it's because they want to introduce something or they want to solidify something that they refuse to say they got wrong. Now, here's the thing. Here's the thing. In Hebrews 9, all right, Hebrews 9, it says verse 1, then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service and a worldly sanctuary. For there was a tabernacle made, the first wherein was the candlestick, the table, the showbread, which is called in the same, I mean, which is called the sanctuary. Now, without going too far in that, he says, he says, the first covenant. The first. So what I'm trying to understand is when you look at, let's look at, let me look at another passage in Hebrews. Because it says that it says that Jesus himself was the mediator of a new covenant. In Hebrews chapter 12, and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, contrary to the old one, and to the blood sprinkling that speaks better things of that of Abel. Then it says, it says in back in Hebrews 10, 16, this is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the Lord, when I put my laws in their hearts. So this speaks to the new covenant or the New Testament era where we are saved by grace. And then we are told also, when I'm going through all these, we're told that the first covenant had to be removed in order to establish the second. So Paul, the writer of Hebrews, Christ, they spoke about two covenants. And when Christ died on the cross, it was to establish the new one and to take and to get rid of the old one. So

Hebrews On The First And New

SPEAKER_07 10:29

I don't know where Brother Mitch is coming from, and I'm willing to see it if somebody can show me this in the scripture. Where are all these other covenants that people are making up? Where are they?

SPEAKER_01 10:42

Trying to figure out.

SPEAKER_04 11:08

Yeah, how many? Yeah, I'm still asking that question. Right, Genesis 7, 2, when he said that I will make my covenant, right, with you, by which I will guarantee to give you countless descendants. That covenant was made with Abraham. Right. So when we're talking about, you know, how many covenants, we know there's an old covenant and a new covenant. But I think I'm I'm kind of answering the question as to how many covenant. It was a lot of covenants made with God's people.

SPEAKER_07 11:47

Well, you just said there was, you just said there were two. Now you're saying there's many of them.

SPEAKER_04 11:50

No, no, no, no, no. I'm saying when we're talking about the old and the new testament, and the new, and like I said before, in the old testament, there was more, there was a lot of covenants made. We use Old Testament as from Genesis all the way up to the new came in. So when we're talking about old, we just talking about you know from the beginning up until now. I mean, up until the the covenant was changed. So hold on now. I'm just saying what the scriptures say. Uh in Genesis 17, 2, he said he would make a covenant. We're using the word covenant with with with Abraham that he would multiply his seed and all this kind of stuff. So I'm just speaking to the number of covenants. Yeah, we understand, you know, there's an old covenant and there's a new covenant, but in the old covenant, there were covenants made.

SPEAKER_07 12:46

We can't deny that. Well, listen, here's the thing. So, first of all, let's let's let's I I guess I guess the issue has to come down to this when we're talking about a covenant. The covenant that we're talking about has a lot to has everything to do with man's positioning before God to be reconciled to him. And so if I if I come to you and say, if I come to you, Mitch, and say, you know what? Hey brother, I want to buy your car from you. How much are you selling it for? You tell me $10,000. We signed it on a piece of paper, and we will call that a covenant. That's what we made an agreement. Okay, but this isn't what we're talking about. And the thing is, we know what we're talking about here. This is why is is a little bewildering to me, because we know exactly what we're talking about here, or at least we should.

SPEAKER_06 13:50

We're making something that's very simple, so complex. Yes. I mean, it's I mean, everybody's familiar with the term schoolmaster, right? So everything that's under the schoolmaster, we know it's in what is called the Old Testament when we open our Bibles. And then uh the other one says, when you get to Christ, you're no longer under the schoolmaster. So I mean, it's just it's just simple. If you open your Bible, you got the Old Testament, you got the New Testament. It's simple questions, what he's asking.

SPEAKER_04 14:22

Let me say this, bro. And you know what? I'm gonna be honest with you. You are correct. I was throwing a monkey in the wrench. I I I quite understand what you were saying, but I wanted I want to throw some other stuff in there, you know, we read covenants, but you're right. When we're talking about salvation, it is only two covenants. All right.

SPEAKER_07 14:44

You're right. All right, so I appreciate that, bro. I really appreciate that.

Defining Covenant And Admitting The Point

SPEAKER_07 14:48

Takes a big man to say that, it really does.

SPEAKER_03 14:50

So, and I think what he said was very important. When it comes to salvation, there are two covenants.

SPEAKER_07 14:58

And see, well what was that, Johnny?

SPEAKER_01 15:05

It's the it's the covenant on grace and promise. That's the covenant. That's the covenant.

SPEAKER_07 15:09

That's the covenant that that's the covenant that was that's the covenant brought in by with Christ, by his death. Yes, right.

SPEAKER_01 15:15

That's the only covenant that saves us. It's based on promise, grace, and faith. Right.

SPEAKER_07 15:19

Old brought us to the new. Yes. This this listen, Jerry said it right. This is really, really simple. We have the old testament law, and we have New Testament grace. It's as simple as that. We are either, when it comes to salvation, we are either under the law or we are under grace. Now, if there's another covenant that somebody feels they are under or should be under, I'd like to hear it. Because Christ died and rose again to establish a new covenant. A new one. And somebody says here in the comments, Grace without law. Because the law could not save anyone, and this is the reason why Christ had to come.

SPEAKER_06 16:20

Jonathan, I and I hear sometimes some people say they start enumerating the laws that's under the Moses commandment. I'm wondering, do they not know that nine of those commandments are in the New Testament, in the New Covenant? Well, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 16:36

I mean, I just don't and see what I wanted to say earlier uh to Nicole, what I was leading up to when I was asking about keeping the law, because I hear a lot of Christians, like there's a lot of people on social media here, especially, and I know a lot of you have heard these people talk about they're Christians, but they have to keep the law. But they're always ambiguous when I ask them, what do you mean by keeping the law? No one gives a straight answer about this. Now the Bible.

SPEAKER_02 17:10

I have given you a straight answer on that.

SPEAKER_07 17:12

What's your straight answer on that? What is keeping the law?

SPEAKER_02 17:14

My straight answer is that I hang on to two. And and if I'm sorry, my dog, like my lights just went. My light, I'm I am in the pitch black dark right now. My lights went up, my dog has been barking. But my straight answer on that is believing and knowing God and having him in my heart and loving everybody else the same way. That's the love to me. And and if I if I if I keep those laws, there's it's no way that I can go against his word because it will grieve my heart. Because if he if he's in my heart and he's written in my heart and everything from him is in me.

SPEAKER_07 17:50

I'm asking you some here's what I'm asking you, Nicole. Let me ask you a question again. What do you mean by keeping the law? Are you saying you don't break it, you don't violate the law, you don't sin?

SPEAKER_02 18:02

Or are you saying that I love God the way he loves me? That's the law to me. And loving everybody else the same way. That's the law.

SPEAKER_07 18:10

Okay. All right. So let's leave it there on that one.

John 14:15 And What Jesus Meant

SPEAKER_07 18:14

I I tried, I don't think I'm gonna get much more out of my sister than that.

SPEAKER_02 18:19

I see, and I and I'm sitting here in the dark, pitch black dark. Good gracious.

SPEAKER_08 18:23

I think what she's trying to say, Jonathan, is using John chapter 14, 15, where she's saying that if you love me, you will keep my commandments. I think that's what she's trying to justify that with in keeping the moral law.

SPEAKER_07 18:36

But what I'm asking, what I'm asking here is this, though, brother. I'm asking this. What does it mean?

SPEAKER_03 18:40

And I'm asking, I'm let me go around and ask people because I think that verse right there is something that needs to be talked about because a lot of people think if you love me, you'll keep my commandments. Like, what was Jesus talking about? Because a lot of people think have the mentality of the law in mind when they read that passage.

SPEAKER_07 19:02

Well, you know, it's funny, interesting, Meg, because we could because you can ask, like, like I'm gonna go around here and I'm gonna ask people. I'm gonna ask everybody here. I'm gonna start with Mitch and go around and and ask what keeping the law means. So, Mitch, let me ask you, brother, what does it mean to keep the law? Because I do believe that as Christians, we're supposed to keep the law. But the problem here is what does it mean to keep the law? Mitch, you first.

SPEAKER_04 19:27

Yeah, the Bible tells us the law of the spirit of life. So if we know the fruits of the spirit, those fruits are the laws of the spirit, and those are what we to keep through the spirit. Fruits?

SPEAKER_07 19:48

The fruits of the spirit. Okay, so you say you're saying that keeping the law is with the fruits of the spirit.

SPEAKER_04 19:55

No, the the the scriptures tell us the law of the fruit. I mean, um excuse me. The law of the spirit, okay, then the fruits of the spirit is what we are to keep. And in those, it covers when we're talking about the Ten Commandments, right? The Bible says those they are covered in love. So yeah, you know, we keep that through the spirit.

SPEAKER_07 20:23

All right. Nicole, you want to tell well, we we heard from you already on this one. Meg, what do you say is what is it does it mean to keep the law?

SPEAKER_03 20:33

Christ is the law. Is he? Yeah. He fulfilled it, he is the law.

SPEAKER_07 20:41

So what so what law did he fulfill?

SPEAKER_03 20:44

All of them.

SPEAKER_07 20:47

So you say Christ is the law. So if Christ is the law, then how do you keep the law?

SPEAKER_03 20:53

By being in Christ.

SPEAKER_07 20:57

Right. I'm writing these things down, so just bear with me a little bit. All right. God's work, God's worship. I can't, I don't know, I don't know the rest of your name here. I can't see it. But what are you saying? What do you say is the what does it mean to keep the law?

SPEAKER_08 21:11

I agree with what she said, plus I like to add that keeping the law has always been love. Love covers a multitude of sins to give you the scripture. You like you, I know you, Jonathan, you like to give scripture. So using laws that covers love covers a multitude of sins. If you love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, and soul, then you are keeping the first five commandments. But if you love your neighbor as yourself, teaching six through ten. So love is keeping the law, right? Christ is love. So what she said is correct. Christ is love, Christ is the law.

SPEAKER_03 21:52

But then he says, let's take it

Why Mosaic Law Keeping Fails

SPEAKER_03 21:54

a step further. He says, When you do this, when you love, there is no law.

SPEAKER_07 22:00

That's true. Well, okay, so Johnny Bravo, what do you say, brother? What does it what does it mean when when it talks about we should keep the law? What does it mean to keep the law?

SPEAKER_01 22:14

It means it's uh something you can't do. It means that you are to continue in all the things which are written in the book of the law to perform them. So it means everything. If you want to keep the law, you want to come by law, then you're gonna be held by the keep the perfect keeping of the law, and you are just about done.

SPEAKER_07 22:36

So you don't believe so you don't so you don't believe that keeping the law is something we can do?

SPEAKER_01 22:40

No, of course not. Okay. All right. Nope. If it were, what does it say? All right. It says Galatians 3, curse is everyone that continues not in all things, which are written in the book of the law.

SPEAKER_07 22:53

Right. All right. Flavio, how you doing, brother? I know you I know you're probably fresh on this.

SPEAKER_01 23:00

But as far as being justified, we we can't do that.

SPEAKER_07 23:03

All right. Flavio, you there, brother? I'm here, brother. How you doing? I'm doing all right. So, in your mind, what does it mean for us to keep the law?

SPEAKER_05 23:15

So basically, what it means for us to keep the law is to have the Messiah in us. Because, like the scripture says, you know, we are made blameless and righteous through him. So by his fulfillment and our obedience to Christ and Christ, Christ dwelling in us, that's us fulfilling the law of what he did on that cross.

SPEAKER_07 23:34

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_08 23:35

Not you who filled out.

SPEAKER_06 23:37

All right, Jerry, what do you think, brother? I agree with what Flavio said because Paul said very clearly, the law is not of faith.

SPEAKER_07 23:47

And faith is and faith is what exactly is required for salvation. So, Lisa, sister, what's your what's your opinion, your your perspective?

SPEAKER_00 23:58

Um so I I want to agree with Big Gravy, Meg, and everybody in that Jesus said that all of the law hangs on the two love God and love your neighbor. But in this conversation, when we're talking about combining the law and grace, that's a different gospel. So the law that these some Christians are speaking of are the law, the law of Moses. And and all the, I would assume the Levitical laws that are 600 and some of them. So that being said, that's impossible to do, and that's why we're under grace. And so that's the big huge difference. If you if you add any of that, the law to it, it takes away from Christ Christ died for nothing.

SPEAKER_07 24:53

Right.

Is Faith Obedience To Law

SPEAKER_07 24:54

So I got a question for let's see here. For let me ask Meg. One of the people making a comment, wrote a comment in, and is Anthony. He says, faith is obedience to the law. Is that true?

SPEAKER_03 25:12

No. Why? Because faith is it's not obedience to the law, because faith is a belief in Christ, and we walk by faith and not by sight. Without faith, it's impossible to please God. So if Christ is the law and we can't keep the law and we need Christ, then the only way that that's going to be fulfilled is through Christ.

SPEAKER_07 25:48

Okay. That's that's that's along the lines where I'm thinking. Brother Mitch, what do you think? Is faith obedience to the law?

SPEAKER_03 25:58

No, faith is obedience to Christ.

SPEAKER_07 26:00

No, I hear you. I'm asking Mitch now.

SPEAKER_03 26:02

Mitch, Mitch.

SPEAKER_07 26:03

Is faith in your mind, is faith obedient to the law? Is that is that correct or no?

SPEAKER_04 26:08

Yes, that's that's correct. As I stated before, when we're talking about the law, the Bible is talking about the law of the spirit of life. Okay, we're talking about the law of the spirit of life, right? Then the Bible tells us without faith is impossible to please God. So, in order to be obedience, we have to be obedient to the laws of the spirit. Again, what is the law of the spirit? It tells us what the spirit. Okay, yeah, you do you get what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_07 26:49

I heard what you're saying. Jerry, is faith obedience to the law? If so, why or why not? Jerry, you there, brother? Flavio, how about you?

SPEAKER_05 27:09

Um, if we're speaking directly to, because I do want to make a distinction between Old Testament laws and that of what the Messiah has brought. If it were just speaking about the Old Testament, no. But if we're speaking about what the Messiah has brought, I would I would say yes.

SPEAKER_07 27:26

You would say that what the Messiah has brought is is for us to be for faith to be obedient to the law.

SPEAKER_05 27:33

Yeah, because uh the scriptures does proclaim in Isaiah 42 of a new law being established by the Messiah.

SPEAKER_07 27:40

All right. Jerry, you agree with that?

SPEAKER_06 27:42

I agree, I agree that the law that we're supposed to be faithful to is the one that that came through Christ alone. Well, see, here's what I want here's my thing. Uh it was instituted, it was actually instituted by the apostles at Pentecost. Now, I'm going backward, I'm going forward.

SPEAKER_07 28:03

I don't know. I I really like our salvation, excuse me, our salvation is by faith true. But our faith is not obedience to the law, and I will fight tooth and nail with anybody on this panel or anybody listening to argue completely different.

Faith In Christ Alone And Guarding The Law

SPEAKER_07 28:30

Faith is in Jesus Christ alone. Faith is not obedience to any law of any kind. Never has been, never will be. Nothing in the Bible says be our that our faith is obedience to law. If it were, we would not need a Christ. Our faith is always in him. And here's the thing. On this, with all due respect to everybody here who I love you guys a lot, you guys are a great panel, like always. But I gotta tell you, anybody who believes anything different than what I just said, you're wrong.

SPEAKER_01 29:15

You're wrong. Jonathan.

SPEAKER_07 29:17

Go ahead, brother.

SPEAKER_01 29:18

Yep, Galatians 3 12. And the law is not of faith.

SPEAKER_07 29:23

Right.

SPEAKER_01 29:24

The law is not of faith. The man that doeth them shall live by them. That I mean, you we can't, we can't, the law, you need to keep all 16 616.

SPEAKER_05 29:36

But you're you're you're you're speaking about the old testament law.

SPEAKER_07 29:38

No, but but but what we're but what we are talking about is what we're talking about though is faith. What is faith? What is what is the object of our faith? Because the question was, right, and the question was faith, somebody wrote in the comments, faith is obedience to the law. That is not true. Faith is obedience to Christ. Amen. Period. And see, the problem is, and I've been around a lot of these people. The problem is we get too heady. We want to be too deep. And we and we make it difficult for, as I said earlier in the conversation, for the simple among us to understand biblical truths. I don't know if there's anything more fundamental to the Christian faith than faith itself and who and what its object is. We put our faith in Christ because he obeyed the law. We don't put faith in Christ to establish an obedience to the law as being the object of our faith. No, Jesus remains the object of our faith because he kept the law on our behalf.

SPEAKER_03 30:58

So, in essence, what you're saying is, Christians, take yourself out of it. You have to. Absolutely, you do. You have to. I mean, and see, I'm all in all aspects, Brother Jonathan, you have to remove self. So many people want to put self into the place of Christ or think they have to come alongside of him. Let his work be finished, and the work was not you.

SPEAKER_07 31:27

Right. Now, see, now I agree with what everybody was saying earlier about about because see the thing the thing about it is that we trust Christ for a reason. We trust him for what he has done. And what he has done was remove from us the penal, the penal condemnation that was due to by us to God for our transgression against his holy law. And at the same time, to reconcile us to God. His death took care of the penal retribution that we are that we are owed, that we deserve to have, but his resurrection gave us reconciliation and justification with the Father. So his whole work of death, burial, and resurrection sets us free from anything the law can do to us. And we still struggle with sin that we die to daily, not because we are worried about sin being able to condemn us, but because now we see sin differently, and and we and the law of God today helps us recognize it when it's happening. So, and here's what I want to say about keeping the law, which I was talking to uh Nicole earlier. The Bible tells us in in Proverbs 4, it says to keep your heart with all diligence, for out of it are the issues of life, right? Keep your heart. What does it mean to keep your heart? It means to guard it, to protect it, to to make sure that it is preserved in a way that it is no longer that it can't be polluted. So when we talk about for the modern Christian today, to keep the law, and there is an aspect that we're whereby we're we are expected to keep the law, but not in the fact that we can obey it. Otherwise, that would undermine the work of Christ. But the reason why we the way we keep the law is by guarding it. A Jonathan? By holding it true, by believing it is perfect, that it is holy, and that the fault with the law has nothing to do with the law itself, but has everything to do with the law breaker.

SPEAKER_04 34:01

A Jonathan?

SPEAKER_07 34:02

Yes, sir.

SPEAKER_04 34:03

I will say this, and I understand what you're saying, and I totally agree, but