Paul's Sorrow for the Israelites, (Romans 9:1-5), part 2/3

Paul’s story is a nightmare for anyone who wants a quiet, low-risk faith. He used to hunt Christians, then God stopped him cold and turned him into the very kind of man his old allies would distrust. That tension sets the tone for our roundtable as we ask a personal question: how do we go back to the people who remember our sin and still tell them the truth without hiding behind comfort?

We walk through the opening of Romans 9 and linger over something easy to miss: Paul’s grief is not aimed at a system, a nation, or a political identity. It’s aimed at his brethren, real people he loves, even when their unbelief breaks his heart. Along the way, we talk about conversion humility, the meaning of “in Christ,” the reality of the remnant, and how God’s sovereign grace should produce compassion rather than cold debate.

Then we reach Romans 9:3, where Paul says he could wish himself accursed from Christ for his kinsmen. We unpack why that statement is so staggering, what it reveals about love, and why it presses on our reluctance to speak plainly to family. We also address why Paul is still resisted today, why the “two gospels” idea collapses under Scripture, and why assurance in Christ should make us brave rather than silent.

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Transcript

Facing People Who Knew You

SPEAKER_04 0:04

Paul knows what he did. He knows what he was doing. Can you imagine somebody going to him saying, wait a minute? Weren't you the one leading the charge? Killing Christians? Isn't this what you were doing? Now you're telling me I need to worship the very same guy that you are out there killing folks for believing. Christians, it may be hard for you to tell people who are acquainted with you before your conversion. It may be hard for you to go back to them and tell them the truth. But what you cannot do is disobey the charge that the Lord God has laid upon you to go back to those very same people who delighted in your sin and delighted in your rebellion against the Lord and who you tried to recruit at that time to carry on with you in your enterprise. Now you're going to tell them, hey, I'm playing for the other team now. You see what I'm saying? Don't think for one second that you can get away from the responsibility to witness and to share to your family members and your friends and your loved ones and whoever it is that you are afraid to talk to now. There is always somebody in all of our lives that all of us do not want to go talk to for fear of shame and embarrassment because they know what we used to be and what we used to say and how we used to conduct ourselves. So Paul says in verse 9, in chapter 9, verse 3. Well,

Romans 9 Opens With Real People

SPEAKER_04 2:09

no, let me stop here. Let me get some insights, some opening remarks from all of you. Let me start with you, Brother Pat.

SPEAKER_01 2:19

Well, man, you guys have already said some great stuff. One thing I want to point out about this introduction, if you will, uh, this beginning statement of Paul that's going to become important later because in our modern day, Christianity is dominated by Arminianism. And Arminians are going to make claims about Romans chapter 9. And one of the biggest lies ever told is that Romans chapter 9, when it talks about Jacob and Esau, is about nations, right? But I want you to see here, right from the beginning, the object of Paul's love are not nations or political systems or infrastructure. It's people, it's brethren, right? The object of his love is people. The system, the physical nation, is actually what got him to persecute God's people. So I want you to see how the Arminians have twisted this in a very evil way by saying that Jacob is the good guy, Esau's the bad guy. Well, I'll tell you something. When Paul was following physical Jacob, it caused him to unalive, persecute, and unalive Christians. So it's a complete twisting of scripture, and I just want people to recognize the object of Paul's compassion, his empathy, his love are people.

SPEAKER_04 3:59

Amen, brother. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_07 4:14

And,

The Humbling Shock Of Paul’s Conversion

SPEAKER_07 4:15

you know, who are you, Lord? Because, you know, that says it all right there. Who are you, Lord? That says a lot. He didn't know. He hated the God that he thought he worshipped. So the the humiliation that he must have the but the beauty of the repentance that he must have experienced. That God gave God gave him, you know. In that revelation, he repented. And he's he said, Who are you, Lord? Also. Right. So what an experience that must have been. I I think that's the most fabulous conversion in the entire scriptures is the first time.

SPEAKER_04 5:18

Absolutely. Brother Ben, your thoughts so far.

SPEAKER_03 5:25

I would say that he's reminding them, as you were saying, that the Israel of today and the Israel of his time they're still seeking that worldly kingdom and for the Messiah to come to fulfill the prophecies and all this stuff. And he's telling them that he belongs to Christ. And the Holy Spirit confirms the truth that the king has already come and he's ruling the kingdom now, that it's already taken place. And that's why he's sorrow in his heart because he knows that some of them are not going to believe. Right. And there are two-thirds of them, as a matter of fact, that he's specifically mentioning Greater in Romans, which you're going to get to, about the elect. Those are the ones before they've done anything good or bad. Not the not based on the work that they'd done. It's by the call that he had, that he called out to them that heard his voice. Oh, we'll hear his voice. Some we some won't. And that's what the whole chapter is going to explain as you're going to get to. That's all I wanted to add. I'm sorry. I didn't mean to talk too long.

SPEAKER_04 6:34

Oh, man, nothing to apologize for. You didn't speak strong at all. It was very good and very succinct. Appreciate it, brother. Jeffrey, thoughts.

SPEAKER_02 6:43

Jonathan, I think we sometimes overlook that Paul or Saul before the conversion was the Pharisee of Pharisees. Now, here a while back, you talked about the Pharisees and all of the laws that they supposedly imposed upon the people. Half of them didn't even understand what it was they were imposing upon the people. Paul did. Paul was the ultimate Pharisee. There was none like him. He was the best of the best. Of the best. I mean, that's who he was. So his conversion on the road to Damascus, like you were saying a moment ago, you're the guy who's been pulling church Christians out of their churches and beating them and killing them. And you want us to believe you're one of them now? I mean, he he's really got an issue, plus the fact he's temporarily blind. I mean, God has really begun doing an incredible work, not only in his life, but in what Paul was going to do later on as he writes all the letters to the churches. And but again, you know, Paul was to me probably one of the last ones I would think that God would choose to do what he wanted done, but Paul did it. God changed him.

SPEAKER_04 8:06

Right.

Family Witness Or Comfortable Silence

SPEAKER_04 8:08

And I think, I really do think, Brother Jeffrey, that imagine, I think the big lesson here, one of the many lessons, and I'm sure that many of you will have things you can glean from this, but imagine being Paul, doing what he did, having the testimony that he had, now all of a sudden doing a complete 180. And so what's the lesson here? We should not be afraid to go tell those people whom we are closest to the truth. Even if we rode along with them and they we were their road dogs and the like, we sin right alongside them. We have to tell them. And remember, Paul said that he was the chief of all sinners. I don't think that that was that was sort of like this hyperbolic statement. I think he really believed that and that he really was. You gotta think about it. This man was going and taking the lives of Christians in the beginning. And now he has to go to these people and preach that everything that he was saying and everything he was doing, his whole cause was a farce. It was a boo-boo. And now he has to speak to the very same people who are no doubt gonna be thinking, Are you serious, Lord? Am I supposed to trust this man? And I know that many of us feel the same thing. And we don't have a whole people to talk to. We just may have a few people that we are reluctant to talk to, and we love them so much, and we and and we don't wanna we'd rather we'd rather keep the peace rather than upset them. But Paul has sorrow in his heart because he knew he had to go tell them. Do you feel that way? Do you feel that way? Do you want to cuddle with people who you know are going to perish because you are worried about offending them with the truth? We are always at a crossword, a crossroad believers, Christians. We are always at a crossroads. What are you going to do? Are you going to stay silent and keep the relationship and watch them go to hell? Or are you going to put your relationship on the line with the hopes that you might save some of these folks? Being the instrument of God. My sister Michelle, what about when it comes to family? Especially when it comes to family. Don't let them breathe for a moment. Because consider the outcome. Eternal damnation. Is it worth your silence to let them go to hell? Cast into the lake of fire. You're okay with it because you got your salvation. See, this is what we have to think about. Can't be afraid. Lisa. And then Vanessa.

SPEAKER_00 12:31

I was gonna say I have literally lost darn near every single family member apart from my like my mom and my brother and my husband and kids. My family, they are Catholic, and I have gone to them and I I pray every day for them. And they have blocked me and don't speak to me. And it's very painful for more than one reason. I mean, you you lose a family member, but I know what their end is if they don't repent, and it it's devastating.

SPEAKER_04 13:17

Right.

SPEAKER_00 13:20

I know them and pleasing the Lord. Uh lose losing them is worth pleasing the Lord and and being obedient and telling, so you know what, if I stand alone, my family in Christ is my family, and you know, I'm in that Matthew today where Jesus said, you know, somebody said, Your mother and brothers are out and want to talk to you. And he said, Who is my mother and who is my brother? My you know, and you guys are my brothers and my mother.

SPEAKER_04 13:54

So there you go. That's right, sister. Vanessa, your thoughts.

SPEAKER_06 13:59

I was, you know, I was thinking about how humbling Paul had to be, you know, for the light to shine on him, and I didn't even know who it was. And then he humbled himself and turned over the leaf that God wanted him to turn over. And Paul teaches a song. You know, Jesus said that he knew what Paul's punishment was for him doing what he did, and Paul felt that pain in sorrow. You know, and I I think that that's a lot of the sorrow that he felt in his heart because he told people wrong. And then he knew who the Lord was. Praise you, Jesus. And you know, he knew who he was, and it turned his whole life around. And he didn't care. He didn't care what happened to him. He just was humble enough to take it all in.

SPEAKER_04 15:00

And to say he meant he messed up, but now he knows.

SPEAKER_06 15:03

Exactly.

SPEAKER_04 15:04

That's right. That's right. Meg, and then Tony.

unknown 15:08

Oh

Truth In Christ And The Remnant

unknown 15:09

boy.

SPEAKER_05 15:11

I think it's interesting in Romans 9:1 that there's that there's three witnesses here. So he says, I say the truth in Christ. Notice when like Paul writes his epistles, he's always saying, in Christ. And this is where you know Pat and I have had many conversations about the Father is only pleased in his son. So the language that Paul uses is in Christ. When we are in Christ, the father is pleased. Why? Because he's only pleased in his son. And then he says, I, he says about himself, I lie not. My conscience also bears witness in the Holy Ghost. Well, we know that the Holy Spirit testifies of the Lord Jesus Christ. So while he was he is speaking in Christ, he's communicating that he is under the testimony of the Holy Spirit. And so the way in which he's relaying this information is, I'm speaking the absolute truth. Just like in Galatians, when he was talking about, for it was not given to him by man, nor by word of mouth, but by the Lord Jesus Christ Himself. So I think it's really interesting that when the way that Paul's opening this up, we're seeing not Saul, we're seeing Paul, but he was Israel according to the flesh. He was what they were. And so when he's speaking about, like, has God's promises not failed? No, because they didn't, they didn't fail for Paul. He's part of the remnant. It was by his grace and his mercy that Paul is where he is because God showed him that mercy and called him out of that. Just like he calls us all out of these things. He called Abraham out, he calls everybody out, he comes to us and calls us out. So I think going into this chapter, it's setting the stage of who Paul really is. I wasn't that person who I used to be. I am now in Christ. You know? That's right.

SPEAKER_04 17:15

Right, that's right. Tony, I know I think you're new up here for the first time, so welcome.

SPEAKER_01 17:22

Hi. Hi. Um but um Saul. Saul.

SPEAKER_04 17:33

Go ahead, brother. Wait, what do you want to say?

SPEAKER_03 17:36

Saul. Amen. All right, brother. Amen. Sorry. That's okay.

SPEAKER_04 17:44

That's okay. That's all right. All right. Verse three.

Paul’s Impossible Wish For The Lost

SPEAKER_04 17:52

Paul continues. He says, For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen, according to the flesh. Now, listen. This is extraordinary. His sorrow is so deep that he makes such a statement as this. I could wish. I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh. He says, I could wish. He's not saying I want to be accursed from Christ, but he's saying, what he's saying is this. If that were possible, I would do it. If such a thing were possible, I think Paul is speaking from a depth of heart and a depth of soul that is unimaginable to most of us today. He says, if I could wish. And he says, you know, Paul could see himself having this wish, considering the love that he has for his kinsman. So what this is saying, he's expressing his love. Sort of the way, so so sort of the way that a mother has for a child. There's very little things that a mother would not do for the preservation of the life of her child. Very little. I have an amazing mother. And I'm sure many of you do. My mother? That woman is a beast of a woman. And I know she would give anything. Anything for me to be alright. So I think I have an idea of me also having two daughters. I think I have an idea what Paul is talking about. He's speaking in a way that that comes from the depth of heart and the soul for somebody that you really love deeply. Deeply. Paul knows what God does. He knows and has been made to understand the way the Lord moves, the way the Father moves, the way the Son moves, the way the Spirit of God moves. He knows this is not possible. So he says, I could wish. That's the extent. And he says, but if it came down to me or you, I would suffer in order for you to live. But he knows that can't happen. Paul is the same one that gave us this, what we've referred to as the golden chain of salvation. Those whom he foreknew, them he predestined. Them whom he predestined, them he called, them he called, he justified, them he justified, he glorified. Paul knows this belongs to him. He knows he can't undo what God has done. But he says with the sincerity of heart, if I could, I would do it. And I think he really means it. You know why? Because Paul understands what sinners deserve. Paul understands. What sinners deserve. And if he were to lose his soul, he would know it is what he deserves. Paul understood human depravity. He knows what he deserves. He called himself chief of sinners. I think he was able to say that because it was probably true. I believe he certainly felt that it was true. And then he expresses that this desire to be accursed from Christ for the sake of others. He's not making some literal proposal, but it is an expression, a hyperbolic expression of intense love and concern. And it reflects a willingness, if it were possible, to bear even the loss of his own salvation for the sake of his people. How would you feel if you were the reason why so many of these people were going to die in their sins? Paul's expression was of the utmost humility and sorrow. Paul is dealing with a lot of hardship. A tremendous amount of heart of hardship. A hardship I don't feel qualified to even understand and feel a fraction of it. I told many of you, Meg, she's heard me talk about this. About all those folks when I was an early Christian who I told and taught to them dispensational teaching. Convince them of the truth of those things. Making stellar arguments. Taking the scriptures and beating them over the head in a way that is irrefutable. Only to realize later that I was wrong. And even with that, I get only a smidgen of a fractional, teeny inf bit of a glimpse into what this great apostle must have been going through. And yet he knows, as I know, that we have to tell the truth in spite of the error that we once conveyed. And what should that mean to all of us and to you all of you? It tells us that we have to continue, we have to, as servants of the Lord, be his stewards, be his custodians of truth. And go out there and deal with the humility of having been wrong in teaching people the truth. The unapologetic truth. Meg.

SPEAKER_05 25:37

I was gonna ask, when Paul calls himself the chief of sinners, I think that we could all say that. And what I mean is, is if we take that it only took one sin to be expelled right from the garden, think of all the sin that we've committed in our entire life, and the in the time that we spent in unbelief, or whether it was saying something false or being rebellious, you know, that grieves me too, because I understand what that feels like when we're when we're in sin, and that same sin put our Lord and Savior on the cross, you know? I don't know, it's just something to think about.

SPEAKER_04 26:29

I mean, you know, we like we we live, and I I really do believe that the time Paul lived in, in terms of the stance that he had to take then, was far more, was far worse than what it is today.

Why Paul Is Hated Today

SPEAKER_04 26:48

None of us are in prison. He was in prison when he writes this very letter. And so, and this was a man that was unshakable in his zeal.

SPEAKER_05 27:02

Do you know what he was in prison for? Sedition. What landed him there? What happened?

SPEAKER_04 27:10

He was speaking in support of Christ. And he spoke about a kingdom that was taken to be a kingdom that would overthrow the existing, the then existing kingdom. He was being persecuted for speaking about a government that could potentially overthrow the one that was then standing.

unknown 27:28

Oh.

SPEAKER_04 27:29

And here he is in Rome. He was basically accused of the very same thing the Lord Jesus Christ himself was accused of.

SPEAKER_05 27:37

But he was in Rome like the epicenter.

SPEAKER_04 27:39

That's right. That's right. The Lord put him in a spot. The Lord put Paul in a spot. He really did. But you know what he did? He put the right man in that spot.

SPEAKER_01 27:53

Amen.

SPEAKER_04 27:54

And even today, you have Muslims, you have those who belong to the Judaism. They hate Paul. They hate Paul. Almost more, if not more, than they did the Lord Jesus Christ Himself. Muslims hate Paul. They hate Paul. But you know what else? Now what I'm saying? Christians. People who call themselves Christians hate Paul. And the ones that don't, and there are some who hate Paul overtly. I'm talking about Christians that hate Paul overtly, and there are others of them who hate Paul by their opposition to what he taught. These verses, these passages that we're going to get into over these next three chapters, this is why Paul is hated. And the hatred that was leveled against Paul for the things taught through verses through chapters 9 through 11, especially, especially these chapters. These things the world does not like to hear. Now there's this idea that there are two different gospels. Jesus had one gospel, and Paul had another gospel, and Paul was Paul's gospel, and Christ was Christ's gospel. Yep. There's only one gospel. The same gospel that saved Job is the same gospel that saved John the Apostle that saved Paul. That saved me to save you. The same gospel. There aren't multiple gospels. There aren't multiple means or ways of salvation. Dispensationalists will tell you that's not true. Dispensationalists, let me say it again in case you've been here and never heard me say this. Dispensationalism is heretical teaching. It is all a lie. Every dispensationalism, dispensationalist is lying, telling lies. And these truths that we're going to get into, people Christians need to understand. So that you can stand up against the most the most vigorous efforts that are coming to oppose the people of God. But we know that the gates of hell will not prevail against this church. Now, if you think that I'm some lone voice and I'm the only one that's wrong, and everybody else is right, and people think that about you too as well, listen. It has always been the few. It has always been the few who got it right. If it appeals to the flesh, it is probably wrong. Jeffrey, go ahead.

SPEAKER_02 31:18

Jonathan, let's look at Paul's conversion from another point of view. All right? I was just thinking about this. This may strike you as funny, it may not, but let's look at it this way. As I said a moment ago, Paul was the Pharisee of Pharisees. He was the devil's right-hand man. He was going into churches, dragging Christians out and killing them left and right. And then Jesus says to the devil, okay, I'm going to take your best servant. I'm not going to take some funky Pharisee. No, no, no. I'm going to take the Pharisee of Pharisees, your best man. And I'm going to turn him into my best man. Can you imagine how they absolutely called the devil? See, and what the reason I say that, Jonathan, now we understand why the devil hated Paul so very much and why he was constantly, constantly attacking Paul while he was doing the work of the Lord. So I mean, that's just I just thought of it that way. It's rather interesting.

SPEAKER_04 32:37

And what's also interesting is that Paul ended up being the most gifted, probably, of any man within the context of the 66 canons of scripture. The canon of scripture.

SPEAKER_02 32:54

The New Testament is his writing, Jonathan. I mean, not all of it, of course, but most of it is. He wrote it through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, you know?

SPEAKER_04 33:03

That's right. No, he he he was probably the most gifted of them all. Not only in natural gifts, but in spiritual gifts as well. He was a brilliant man. All you have to do is read this book, and you'll see. But you read all of them, you see this man was different. He was different. And he he expressed his desire to be accursed from Christ for his people for the sake of his people. And this also reflects a willingness on his part, if it were possible, if it were possible, and it's not, to even undergo the loss of his own salvation, that his people might be saved. But it wasn't possible. And this exacerbates his situation. Because he knows what he deserves. This is a man who is incredibly sensitive to man's sin and his depraved condition. And Paul must be thinking on a daily basis, Lord of all people. Why me? Why me? Why are so many people better than me perishing, but you chose me. See, this is this is something that we that we need to think about ourselves.

The One In Every Family

SPEAKER_04 34:36

I always say that in every family, and I really do believe this, I believe that in every family there's the one. That one whom the Lord is going to save in a radical way, and the purpose for him putting putting them there is to shake up the family dynamic.

SPEAKER_05 35:04

I agree with you one hundred percent.

SPEAKER_04 35:09

There's always one.

SPEAKER_05 35:11

Notice how they're called the black sheep, but the sheep is the one that gets called.

SPEAKER_04 35:19

There's always one.

unknown 35:21

Amen.

SPEAKER_04 35:22

Are you that are you the one? And see, this is this is what, and and and this is what people don't understand. Christians, brethren, brothers, sisters, you all, I, you, we all have a responsibility, and it is a daunting one at that. But if you know what Paul has been teaching in all these chapters up to this chapter now, you understand that there is nothing that can happen to you. Nothing can separate you from the love of Christ, nothing can separate you from the love of God. You are more than conquerors in Christ. All these things that we have been given to understand that we are safe in him, who is our shepherd, and we are the sheep of his pasture. He surrounds us and preserves us from all enemies. He sets a trap for us in the midst of his enemies, and we are safe even there.

SPEAKER_05 36:20

Hallelujah.

SPEAKER_04 36:21

There is nothing that anyone can do to you until the Lord says, It is time for my son or daughter to come home. Amen. You are invincible. Invincible. Literally invincible. Literally. Literally. And so Paul has this problem. He has a problem. He reveals the extent of his identification with his people. And he identifies with this longing that he has for their salvation. And he says, here, I could wish that myself were cursed from Christ for my brethren. He's talking about his kinsmen according to the flesh. My fleshly people. He's emphasizing his natural connection to them. Natural connection to them. Showing that his concern.