Paul's Sorrow for the Israelites, (Romans 9:1-5), part 3/3

Paul’s words in Romans 9 are shocking on purpose: he talks like a man willing to be cursed if it would mean his own people finally see Christ. That kind of grief forces a hard question. If the future is simply a separate national plan for Israel, why does Paul sound crushed instead of triumphant? We walk through that tension and challenge the common Israel vs church split that reshapes Romans 9 to 11 into something Paul isn’t actually saying.

From there, we zoom out to Israel’s long struggle with idolatry, the demand for something visible, and the refusal to share God with the world. Then Jesus steps into history with a sentence that changes everything: God loves the world. We talk about what it means for Gentiles, for Jewish pride, and for the unity of God’s saving purpose from the foundation of the world. Along the way we name Israel’s real privileges, why it’s such a tragedy to stumble over the Messiah, and how Christ is both truly human and fully God.

The conversation turns personal and practical with Barabbas, human depravity, and why we need regeneration by the Holy Spirit, not just better intentions. We also dig into heart circumcision from Romans 2, the identity of the true people of God, and why baptism is a powerful confession without becoming a checklist for salvation. If you’ve ever wondered how to hold theology and pastoral comfort together, the repeated encouragement lands close to home: remember your baptism when life gets heavy.

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Transcript

Paul’s Heavy Grief For Israel

SPEAKER_02 0:00

For them is rooted both in his personal relationship, which is also tied to this spiritual burden that he has for their salvation, for their souls, for them to understand these very complex things that we're going to get into talking about. He's dreading what he must do, what he can't help but do. But it has to be done. It has to be done. And if all of the things that are to follow in this ninth chapter, along with the chapter 10 and chapter 11, Paul speaks, what Paul speaks are about the promise of a restoration of natural Israel, and you have to ask the question. In other words, let me say this again because I missed one part. If what Paul is going to speak about is about a national restoration, then we have to ask ourselves this question. Why would Paul, why would he wish to be accursed for the sake of his brethren according to the flesh? Why would he be expressing such a deep sorrow if this is good news as the dispensationalist says it is? In that these chapters that we're going to be talking about in chapters 9 through 11, if they are postulating some great coming of a restoration restoration of a national Israel, a earthly Israel, why would Paul be sorrowful about this? And I brought this up in the first in the second verse. Because the dispensationalist says, oh no, the church is one thing. The church is separate from national Israel. Israel and the church are two different entities, two different relationships with God.

SPEAKER_03 2:19

But they're wrong.

SPEAKER_02 2:23

But if they were right, then why would Paul be bearing such a heavy burden? Why would he be such such in continual sorrow if what these people are saying is true?

SPEAKER_03 2:38

He wouldn't.

SPEAKER_02 2:45

Because the reason why Paul is in prison is for telling them something different than what they expected. So if they understood correctly what he was saying, it would be contrary to what they were expecting. So he is saying, I'm in sorrow over you because you don't get it. But if you did get it, you would realize that what is coming is better for you than what it is you are looking for. You see, this is what this is this is why Paul is upset. He's like, listen, you guys, first of all, you're getting it wrong. And secondly, if you got it right, you would understand how much more glorious what is coming is for you. These people are telling lies to this very day. They're telling lies to this very day. And so Paul is saddened.

Challenging The Israel Church Split

SPEAKER_02 3:58

Why? He's saddened concerning their lack of understanding and their utter stiff-neckedness and their obstinacy and their ignorance to the real nature of the Lord's intent for his people. And their biggest problem here's what Israel's biggest problem was. They did not want to share God with any of the other people of the earth. They did not want to share God.

SPEAKER_04 4:44

They didn't want that. So question. They didn't want to share God. So is this supposed to be what made them turn to other gods?

SPEAKER_02 5:00

Absolutely. It contributed to that for sure. But they seem to have, sister, they seem to have a proclivity toward that anyway. I mean, when you read throughout the Old Testament scriptures, how often did Israel go chasing after idols? A lot. A lot, right? A lot. They did it a lot. So they always had this idea that they wanted to make gods after their own making. They wanted to fashion gods after their own designs. And when they got frustrated with it, they got to the point where they're going, like, you know what? You know what? You know what, Nathan? I mean, Samuel, you know what we want? We want our own king. We want to be just like everybody else, will worshipers, idol makers.

SPEAKER_04 5:54

They they wanted to they wanted to see a king. That's right. They wanted, they wanted to see something physical. That's right. The reason during Moses' days, they they did the calf. Right. They did all of that. And that's what kept getting them into so much trouble with God.

SPEAKER_02 6:17

So much trouble with God. So much trouble. Absolutely right, sister. Absolutely right. And Paul here, he's upset. He's sad. He's hurt. Because they don't understand.

Israel’s Refusal To Share God

SPEAKER_02 6:30

And now you have, now you have this Messiah who comes along and he says, he says this. God so loved the world. Yes, sir. But everybody who's been here normally on a regular basis, you know what I'm talking about. He, when the Lord Jesus Christ says this, he's telling the Jews something they did not want to hear. Wait a minute.

SPEAKER_03 7:08

God loves who? The world.

unknown 7:12

The world.

SPEAKER_02 7:14

He loves all the nations. And he tells his people, the Lord Jesus Christ, he tells his own people, like Paul is confronted with and has to tell his own people. That you, my brethren, are only one part of the community that the Lord God loves and is going to save. And not only that, he puts them on equal footing with you. There is no difference between them and you.

SPEAKER_06 8:11

This was God's sovereign plan the entire time from the foundation of the world.

SPEAKER_02 8:16

That's right. Now he says, I wish that I would be accursed for your sake. And then he says, You, talking about his people, his brethren, who, in verse 4, are Israelites. To whom pertains the adoption, to whom pertains the glory and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises. And so the privileges of these people are now being enumerated by the apostle. He's laying out all these blessed privileges and benefits that they had. And he tells them, he tells them that they are Israelites, that they belong to the nation that is specially chosen by God to receive these privileges. And these privileges, explicitly, so they were truly a privileged people. They were.

God Loves The World

SPEAKER_02 11:36

Meaning Christ. And so the privileges, the privileges that they had culminate into two supreme distinctions. Number one, they are descendants of the patriarchs. Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, the foundational figures of God's covenant dealings. And number two, and most significantly, from them as concerning the flesh, Christ came. He chose to come to earth as a descendant of theirs, and there is no greater honor than to have Christ come in the flesh that God put on you. Amen. And so this shows that Christ, it affirms his true humanity and that it was rooted in their very lineage. So, and what Paul is doing is making this case. Listen, you have been the benefactors of all of these good things. Throughout history, you've had all these blessed benefits. And then when the Messiah comes, you fall apart at the most crucial period when all these blessings were being realized for what they really were about. You had all these benefits, and then the Messiah comes, and now you trip up at the finish line. Imagine playing on a football field and getting down to within inches of the goal line and choking. This is what they did. And he put our Lord on a cross. And so Paul also says that he declared, yet he, meaning Christ, declared to be over all, God bless it forever, affirming that the full deity of Christ and affirming his universal sovereignty. Even as it underscores the profound tragedy that those who highly favored have.

Israel’s Privileges And The Tragedy

SPEAKER_02 15:28

Whose name was Jesus?

SPEAKER_06 15:30

Was it wasn't Barabbas' name? Barabbas par Jesus.

SPEAKER_02 15:36

No, it it means son of the father.

SPEAKER_06 15:39

Yeah, okay. My bad. So even so, his name means son of the father.

SPEAKER_07 15:44

Right.

SPEAKER_06 15:45

You had the real son of the father.

SPEAKER_07 15:47

Right.

SPEAKER_06 15:48

Given with human wisdom. If man chooses, they will never choose God under no circumstances because they wanted to let Barabbas go. And it's just so interesting. Like when we read the Word of God, like when it says that we don't choose God, that no one understands that we wouldn't have. And it just goes to show our depravity that even when given the choice to choose God, we still won't.

SPEAKER_02 16:15

That's right. We still won't. We have to be, we have to be moved in our hearts, and in order for that to happen, we need to be given new hearts that's able to move. And hence we are referred there. We are regenerated by the Holy Spirit of God, which means that we are given, as we all know here, a new heart. And it is with the new heart that we are enabled to repent and to look to Christ in faith. That is what happens. Because before that new birth, we are dead. And that's the reason why it's referred to as a new birth. Because we were dead. And like I explained to that gentleman the other night, what will does a dead person have?

SPEAKER_03 16:55

None. None. None. Sister Lisa, what do you think?

SPEAKER_01 17:04

Yeah, I think this is amazing. I I pray that whoever's in here is really listening. Because if you get this Israel part wrong, your theology's all the way off. Paul, we're we're Paul. God came and got us just like he did Paul. And now we have to just do what Paul, what Paul's doing.

SPEAKER_02 17:28

Right. Amen. Rosalind, what do you think, sister? What do you think?

Barabbas And Human Depravity

SPEAKER_04 17:36

I get that. And you know, where this is actually talking about where Jesus' own people didn't accept him.

SPEAKER_07 17:46

Right.

SPEAKER_04 17:47

And when we talk about the Israelites, I I think about today, in this day and time. You know, when when when Jesus said, you know, God says he's coming back to claim his people, don't look for him to pick the people of today Israel. Right. His people has what's the word for it? Scattered. Right. Those original Israelites has scattered to other countries. This is modern Israel today.

SPEAKER_02 18:26

Right. So and that is the people of God, all who trusted him for their salvation. And it's and so even when you look at in Romans, in verse, because we're going to see this here. I'm trying to think right now. Well, let's go back a little, I'll take it a step further. I'll take it back a little further here. When you go back to Romans 2 in verse 28, and Paul says this, he is not a Jew, which is one inwardly, neither is that circumcision which is outward in the flesh. So he says he says that the circumcision that's an acts to identify in the Jew, he goes, This circumcision is nothing if it is only outward. He's saying that this circumcision is one that is inward. And in verse 29, he says, But he is a Jew which is one inwardly. And circumcision is that of the heart and in the spirit, and not in the letter, whose praise is not of men, but of God. And so we're going to see him talk about who the Israel of God is, just like he calls the Jews being a person whose heart has been circumcised, not whose person whose foreskin has been circumcised. And he makes this point. And he's going to do this over and over again. And again, I pointed out on many occasions how Abraham was said to be the father of many nations before there was any nation. There was no nation of Israel when God told Abraham, You are going to be the father of many nations. So I'm going to change your name from Abram to Abraham, the father of many nations. So God is foreshadowing what is coming. And we see this whole thing speckled throughout the old covenant era. Bathsheba, she wasn't a Jew, yet she is in the lineage of the Lord Jesus Christ. Ruth is in the lineage of the Lord Jesus Christ, and yet she was not a Jew. Abraham was not a Jew until he became 99 years old, and that was only when God brought in instituted the circumcision. But Abraham was already 99 years old and was a friend of God. Already. Jacob preceded, I mean not Jacob, Job preceded everybody in terms of the narrative of redemption, and he knew that he would see Christ in his own flesh. He knew that. He was a believer. He was justified by faith. Lisa, go ahead.

True Jewship And Heart Circumcision

SPEAKER_01 21:13

Okay, this might be a silly question. Hopefully you can answer it quickly. It just popped in my mind when he talked about physical circumcision. So back in the in the Old Testament, we know women can't be circumcised physically. So how were they identified as part of Israel? By by by marriage?

SPEAKER_02 21:35

Yeah, by the familial association, yes.

SPEAKER_01 21:38

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 21:39

Yep. Yeah, that's that's true. Good question, though. And that's and that's true. But it was it was by because it was it was it was by the men that nations were sort of identified by the men and this and and what they held to and this kind of thing. But yes, it was the affiliation, the familial family uh relationship between the Men and the wives and their children and offspring.

SPEAKER_04 22:02

So, so that includes, like, uh, okay, Jacob, who was then named Israel, his daughter was uh Israelite through him. Right. That's right. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 22:17

That's right. So when you look at, and see, and see, I'll tell you something. When you read in the scriptures, you'll see these genealogies, and I know a lot of Christians will probably read those things that just sort of glaze over them and go, ah, oh, I'm gonna just skip through this and I'm gonna get through my reading for the day. But there's a lot there. There's a lot there. And and so these people all come from somewhere, but generally speaking, yeah, you're right, Rosin and Lisa. The the the circumcision was a outward badge to the rest of the world that this community of people, because you have to understand, the people at that time and in that region, you couldn't tell the difference between them. They were all they all looked like the same people. So circumcision, circumcision, God gave to the nation of Israel a specific people so that they could be set apart from everybody else. Now, don't ask me how it became an outward evidence because I don't know how how how they proved things back then. I don't know. I really seriously don't know.

SPEAKER_04 23:25

But I would think that that was ceremonial because you know, whenever a child was born, it was at so many, yeah, so many, so many, what is it, days, it was time for him that child to be circumcised. Right. So I think it was like a ceremonial thing.

SPEAKER_02 23:48

It was. But what I'm talking about is how do they make other nations know?

SPEAKER_04 23:55

Well, well, let's think about this. Remember when, remember when Jacob and this this other tribe, when Jacob and them had to move to another land, and this other tribe came down, and and the other tribe's son wanted to wanted to marry Jacob's daughter. But and Jacob gave them the rule that we cannot intertwine. If you have not, that calls for your whole tribe of being to be circumcised. Right. So maybe that was it.

SPEAKER_02 24:33

That's a good uh a good reference for sure. Absolutely, absolutely. And I think in that situation, because it was it's clear, uh, Rosalind, it's clear that they that that this came up. And and that's a good example, what you just brought up. That's a very good example, how it will come up, because that came up when there were other people who wanted to be identified with this group of people. And so you were saying, they were going like, okay, well, if you if you get all your men circumcised, and we know what they did to them, they embarrassed them and humiliated them. They didn't, they weren't being genuine. But but that was what they did. So and and so but that I understand in this from the standpoint of an enemy people who doesn't want to be destroyed by you and saying, okay, well, I'm gonna join the league with you, and then you saying, well, you can join us, but all your men need to be circumcised. But what happens when you go to to other people who are opposing you, and you know, I don't know how that introduction was made. I really don't know. I really don't know.

SPEAKER_04 25:45

It'd be interesting to look at, but that's the best question ever, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 25:49

That's a great question. It really is. It really is a good question because how it was used in it wasn't like we had like ID cards, you know what I mean? Yeah, and when you think about circumstances, you're going like, well, there's only one way to ID me.

SPEAKER_04 26:06

Well, maybe, maybe they didn't mix.

SPEAKER_03 26:10

I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 26:11

I really don't know. And you know what? That was that was one of the most important. God is so, so intentional because that was one of Paul's biggest job was convincing Peter that, hey, after Christ came and died, there's no need for circumcision anymore. Right. It's about the heart. That's right. That's exactly right, Sister.

SPEAKER_02 26:41

Amen. Absolutely, absolutely, dead on.

SPEAKER_04 26:45

I'm gonna hush now because I'm all excited.

Women Circumcision And Identity Questions

SPEAKER_02 26:49

I like that. Uh Vanessa, what do you think?

SPEAKER_00 26:53

I think everybody's exactly right. When it comes to circumcision, you know, I think I also think that it was all about obedience too. You know, it wasn't just the circumcision, it was for the women, you know, Meg was talking about the women, and I think that it was for obedience. They had to do the obedience to their husbands and to the Lord.

SPEAKER_07 27:15

Right.

SPEAKER_00 27:16

So what you know, that's how they made it through.

SPEAKER_07 27:18

Right.

SPEAKER_00 27:19

That's how God had it back then, you know, and now today, you know, there's no male or female. We're all the same.

SPEAKER_07 27:26

Right.

SPEAKER_00 27:27

You know, so that that's how I look at it.

SPEAKER_02 27:29

And there is one thing that I will say is that baptism and circumcision have a there's connect there's a connection there because the water baptism symbolizes symbolizes a cleansing. Well, baptism, I mean circumcision was the same thing. It was considered the putting away of the filth of the flesh. You know, so the whole idea was you know circumcision, it you know, because you know it wasn't a very uh, you know, to not be circumcised was not considered a clean a clean thing. And so circumcision was uh exemplified in in a symbolic way being cleansed.

SPEAKER_00 28:11

Was was that for let me get this out. Was that for just the cleanliness?

SPEAKER_02 28:19

Yeah, it was.

SPEAKER_00 28:20

Or was it for to show that they obey God?

SPEAKER_02 28:24

I well it was it was both. It was it was both because because the the the circumcision itself was to not be circumcised was considered to be, in some respects, considered to be filthy, considered to be kind of dirty. So so by but by having we all we all know what circumcision is. So by having the circumcision, it removed that outer layer of flesh and exposed a man's genitalia, you know, you know, to uh easier cleansing. And so and and so but the whole idea of it was cleansing. It it showed you were saying that I have identified with being cleansed by God. You know, that's the I'm associated with him, and this is the this is the badge that I have identified. I have cleansed myself by being circumcised. But see, the problem is Israelites took it as well, this is the evidence of you having closed in with Christ spiritually, closed in with God spiritually. But what we learn later on, and what Paul teaches, and what the other apostles teach, is that the circumcision of the flesh is only a symbol of what is supposed to be done in the heart. And if there has not been a circumcision of the heart, if there hasn't been a cleansing of the heart, then your circumcision is invalid.

SPEAKER_00 29:50

Because it was of the flesh, and it didn't matter anymore.

SPEAKER_02 29:53

That's right, because it was just of the flesh. And so now baptism comes in in this new covenant and it does the same thing. You have these people going around saying, well, if you're not water baptized, you're not a Christian. Well, that can't be true. Because Peter says it is not the putting away of the filth of the flesh that saves you. But baptism, what it is, it is the pledge of a good conscience toward God. It is the pledge of a heart that has been changed toward God, and baptism, water baptism today is the symbol, well, is what we're telling other people that has happened to us inwardly. And so it's a it's a confession to the world that I no longer belong to me, I belong to Christ, my Savior. Yes, amen.

Circumcision Baptism And Cleansing

SPEAKER_02 30:35

I died with him in the baptismal waters, and I was raised from the baptismal waters to a newness of life, and therefore I am a new creature in Christ, right? That's right.

SPEAKER_04 30:46

And and and and it's some people that really feels that you know you don't, and and you don't because if you have the heart and know that Jesus died and rose for us, you are saved. But when when I gave my life to Christ, it was just something in me that wanted to be baptized.

SPEAKER_03 31:15

Right.

SPEAKER_04 31:16

I wanted to be baptized, I wanted to let go of the old and end with the new. And I actually felt that when I went up under that cold water. And when I when I raised up, I was like in awe. And just thanking God that you make yeah, you changed me, you made me whole. Right.

SPEAKER_02 31:43

Yeah, it's it's something really special, sister. And it is, and I I had the good benefit of a week or two ago to baptize a sister on the on a on a on a gathering that we all of us on TikTok had. We all a lot of us on TikTok here, we all gathered together in Missouri this this not last week, but the weekend before. And I baptized the first person for my in my life in my life, and it was you know, it was it was beautiful to me. And to to be doing it for somebody else. And but you're right, there's something about the baptismal waters when you have been converted that makes that experience extra special. And I and I always tell people who've been baptized who I know, and I always tell them, and I tell this to all of you remember your baptism. Whenever things get hard, difficult, trying, remember your baptism. Remember your baptism. Always go back to that date because and go back to what it re what it reminds you of. It reminds you of this transformation that has taken place in your heart already. You see, and so and so to remember that. It is not to make it, it is to remember it is to not leave baptism in this in a situation where you just leave it or make it a novelty. A novelty. Don't let it just be that. Let that new life, make that old man and that new person be separate. And remember how you were transformed. And Christians, I know how you all remember. I know you do. But what I'm doing is what I'm trying to do is is to encourage you in this way. No matter what you're going through, try to go back to that day because like Sister Rosa said, and like Lisa says, and I do remember Lisa when you got when you got baptized. I did a video on your baptism. And but when you go back, when you remember that baptism, it's not just the getting into the waters itself, it's all the things that led up to it. It's that feeling you had when you came out of that, like Sister Rosa said, that cold water. It's the coming out of it, and it's that freshness of a new life that you now have embraced and has embraced you and enveloped you. And so whenever you're feeling down, whenever you're feeling stressed, whenever you're feeling tried, whenever you're feeling mournful, whatever it is, remember your baptism. Be provoked and be persuaded.

Remember Your Baptism In Hard Times

SPEAKER_02 34:25

That's all I got for tonight, folks. Tomorrow, I'm gonna see if I can find my notes on the church of Laodicea. And if I do find it tonight, I will present that tomorrow, which was supposed to be presented tonight. But evidently the Lord had something better for us, which was what we talked over, talked about tonight. So I will either find my notes tonight or I will try to put them together again before we gather tomorrow. But God bless you all. And Sister Meg, if you'll close us out, it'd be great.

SPEAKER_04 34:58

First, I'm sorry. What time what time do you gather? I get off, I get home at 6 30.

SPEAKER_02 35:05

Where where do where do you think?

SPEAKER_04 35:08

I'm central time. I'm Alabama.

SPEAKER_02 35:10

Oh, so I'm in I'm in Mississippi, so 7 30 central time.

SPEAKER_04 35:15

So it's 7 30 central time.

SPEAKER_02 35:17

Yes, 7 30 central time, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 35:19

Okay, okay. Are you home right there? I am. I got a whole hour to freshen up and get ready for church.

SPEAKER_02 35:30

I know. Yes. Well, well, I'm happy you're here, sister. I really appreciate you being here.

SPEAKER_04 35:36

Thank you, and thank you guys for having me.

SPEAKER_02 35:38

Absolutely, absolutely. All right, Meg, go ahead, sister.

Tomorrow’s Plan And Closing Prayer

SPEAKER_05 35:43

Dear Heavenly Father, Lord God, we just thank you again for another wonderful evening to where brothers and sisters can unite under one chord, Lord, being edified in your word. Heavenly Father, I just thank you for the word that you have allowed us to receive tonight. Lord, let it go into application, Heavenly Father. Thank you for the understanding that you have given us. And thank you for Jonathan for so graciously teaching this lesson tonight. No matter what the surprise is, no matter what happens, Lord, everything is for your glory, Lord. And so I thank you that we got to go over Romans this evening. Lord, as we continue to go into these chapters, it gets tough, but we know that there is nothing too tough for you, Lord. For your sheep, we'll hear your voice, Lord God. And I just thank you for that. Lord, we glorify you. I ask that everybody sleep well tonight, Lord God, and tomorrow as they wake up to begin their week, Lord, let them be peaceful. Let you bring people that need to hear your word, and most importantly, let us share the gospel like never before. For as Romans 1:16 and 17 says, that we are not ashamed of the gospel. Lord, we think about that. In Jesus' name we pray. Amen.

SPEAKER_02 37:02

Amen, everybody. God bless you. Rosalind, thank you so much for being with us tonight, sister. Appreciate it.

SPEAKER_04 37:08

Yes, thank you guys. I had a wonderful time. My little short time, but I had a wonderful time. All right. Thank you. Will you come see? And if it's in God's will, I will be on here tomorrow.

SPEAKER_02 37:21

But I'm gonna make sure I talk to him and make sure you get here.

SPEAKER_04 37:24

Amen.

SPEAKER_02 37:28

All right, everybody. Have a good night, everybody. God bless you all.