The Chef JKP Podcast
The Chef JKP Podcast
Season 6 - Episode 6 - George Lyon - Kitchen Lessons !
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Welcome to The Chef JKP Podcast with host James Knight Paccheco.
In this episode, chef George Lyon shares his fascinating journey from working in a butcher shop to becoming the head chef at Broadway Brasserie in Abu Dhabi.
From childhood food memories to prestigious Michelin kitchen experiences, George discusses the importance of work-life balance, culinary excellence, and teamwork in the culinary world.
Topics discussed:
· Early Culinary Journey
· Professional Growth
· Challenges and Rewards in Prestigious Kitchens
· Transition to Abu Dhabi
· Leadership and Teamwork
· Culinary Advice and Funny Kitchen Incident
Key takeaways and lessons:
- Childhood memories and early exposure can shape a chef's culinary journey.
- Prestigious kitchens offer both pressure and rewarding experiences.
- Work-life balance and teamwork are crucial for success in the culinary industry.
- Developing staff, passing on skills, and learning from mistakes are key for growth.
- Culinary excellence requires focus, hard work, and a passion for quality ingredients.
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we're gonna get serious. Above all, lessons for life. You're listening to the Chef JKP podcast, and this is what you can expect on today's show.
- We used to go down to the butchers, prep meets with them, and prep meats with them and then Actually in the butchers themselves. Yeah, so we there's a it's quite a market town Bondsly so we had fish mongers butchers and luckily my butchers sell Paul used to look after me on a on a Saturday morning before work We used to go in there and behind the counter see all the pies and actual prep some meat with them.
Yeah That's quite amazing though at the age of 13 one education. Honestly, it was Honestly, it was amazing. We had a Chateaubriand on order and he's literally holding my arm at the side.
He's like, "You don't base with your elbow, you base with your wrist." So I'm there like that when he's at the back of me. It was a bit strange, but honestly, the smells, the different smells, the stockpots that were going all the time,
the brazes that were going, and then in a heat of service, we did 160 covers for lunch. Well, I didn't, obviously. But I was just looking at them like they were rock stars and I was thinking, "I want to beat you." There's no point in going to work for eight to nine hours if you can't smile and laugh with your team because for me and my personality at least,
I definitely need that. And then I think that's what you get the best out of people is that they feel comfortable at work. They can talk to me about anything work -related and also outside of work. I'm there to listen to them.
The guest on this week's show has worked for some of the most inspirational chefs in the world. He also happened to work under the Gordon Ramsay restaurant group for some time and worked alongside the big man himself.
He is the head chef of Broadway Brasserie, located in the iconic Emirates Palace in Abu Dhabi. On the podcast this week, I talk to the incredibly charismatic George Lyon.
We discussed his formative years cooking in an Italian restaurant, plus spending time in a butcher shop in the north of England. How he got hooked in the kitchen and his first ever interview in London's iconic Savoy Grill.
We also discussed about decision that led him to change the way he worked and to have more of a work -life balance. George has some serious stories about his time in London.
He's travelled extensively and he gives some amazing insights for anybody in the industry. A great conversation with plenty of laughs along the way and a lot of interesting moving parts.
So get comfy and enjoy. Listen out for a story involving a chocolate tart. time to rock and roll Just before we begin here is a small message from this week's guest.
Hello guys I'm George Lyon head chef all Broadway Emirates Palace if you like the podcast make sure to follow share and subscribe Welcome back to the chef JKP podcast and on the show today We have George Lyon the head chef of Broadway Brasserie Located in Emirates Palace,
Mandarin Oriental Abu Dhabi. George, welcome to the show. - Thank you, James. - So chief, first things first, can you tell me your first ever, or your favorite childhood food memory?
- Honestly, James, I wish I could tell you that it was like this romantic story about my mum and dad used to cook every day and that's how I got into food. But for me, it was actually seeing my grandma cook for my granddad,
the same dish every single day of his life, which was braised beef with vegetables, literally, and that was it. And my granddad used to cook the vegetables in his, so he used to grow the vegetables in his garden in his little allotment.
Yeah, that was my first food memory. No cooking, really, from my mum and dad, to be fair. And which part of England was that? I'm originally from Barnsley in South Yorkshire, So, God's country.
But also in that sort of region, it's quite hearty. Yeah, stews, cold winters, not many summers over there anyway. And yeah, Yorkshire puddings,
sticky toffee pudding desserts. And for me, that was my childhood memories. So, as you were growing up, adolescent, what sort of foods were you into.
So I actually started in the kitchen 13 years old. So I had a paper round, hated it, waking up early every morning. And I thought going into a kitchen would be easier,
which clearly from the experience is now, now definitely not true. I ended up working in a local Italian restaurant at the age 13,
just potwashing and then going to the start. Who got you the job? I actually put my name forward because we used to eat there probably once a month with my family, my two brothers, my mum and dad. For me,
it was eating pastas and pizzas from there and I know that sounds really simple, but for me, that's where I really started seeing like going out in hospitality and then obviously working there,
go with the camaraderie from the guys and guys that were older than me. And that's, I kind of fell in love with that more than the food in the beginning, and then obviously working there and working there,
it was starting to see ingredients and going down to the butchers on a Saturday morning in Banzer, which was full of banter, full of Yorkshire banter, which was quite ruthless at times,
especially at 13. And yeah, that's where I learned how to butcher meats. I used to go in early on a Saturday morning. I used to go down to the butchers, prep meats with prep meats with them, and then...
- Actually, in the butchers themselves? - Yeah, so it's quite a market town, Barnsley. So we had fishmongers, butchers, and luckily, my butchers, Sal Paul,
used to look after me on a Saturday morning before work. We used to go in there and behind the counter, see all the pies and actual prep some meat with them, yeah. - That's quite amazing though, at the age of 13. What an education.
- Honestly, it was amazing to see all like the cheaper cuts of meat as well. Because obviously Banzi's known for being a mining town, like you mentioned stews and things like that. So we used to have tripe.
It was an actual tripe sandwich, I don't know if you've made people. Getting bored with eating tripe these days, but we used to eat it with vinegar and just boiled down with vinegar. So George, for those people who don't know what tripe is in this region,
can you describe for me what it is? Tripe Right, for me, is the intestine and kind of the stomach lining of an animal,
mainly pork, where it was back home. And for me, that's where kind of eating those things at 13 -year -old open my mind to a lot of things down the line in the future.
And like I say, there was just cheaper cuts for me there. There was pig's trotters, there was like game birds that come in season. So it's like seeing these different things that I'm not used to,
especially being at home. It was like I said, braised beef every day at my Nullin Granddad's house, but at home it was mainly chicken nuggets and pasta because that was the easiest thing to do. But that must have opened your mind quite extensively at that age to not only go to the butchers,
but also be surrounded in a kitchen and sort of enjoying that camaraderie, if you like. Yeah, I was very, very fortunate to have the experience at the butchers.
But then also, my head chef at the time, Steve Fitzgerald, he'd actually done his classical training. So he was bringing things in just for specials boards. So we'd do,
like I said, we'd do pig's trotters. We'd do a little bit of pastry and make lemon tarts and quite simple things but done properly and just that learning curve for me, I kind of forgot about school.
So I was 13 years old, I was working, which started on a Saturday, then it turned into a Friday evening and a Saturday all day, then it turned into a Wednesday, Friday, Saturday and then literally I was just kind of skipping school in the end to be working all the time,
which doesn't sound particularly legal, but you must have enjoyed it To really, I mean, immerse yourself in that world in a very young age. I loved it I loved being around older people that had different life experiences to me and that I could learn from them and The food aspects of it just made my love for hospitality even further.
It just grew in me. And I never actually saw being a chef as a career in the beginning. But then when I've just been in the kitchen around these people, around ingredients,
seeing the kitchen banter that everyone knows, is that that's what I fell in love with. And then from then, that's when I wanted to progress my career, obviously, further. So if we fast forward three years down the line after you finished out?
What was the next step after that? From there, I took an apprenticeship at Castle College in Sheffield. So I traveled to Castle College on a Monday, and then I'd learned all the basic French classic cookery from there,
and then went on back to work for the rest of the week. So it was a learning curve where I'd learn new things at college, and then I could input them into work I learned further and my skills build up from there.
And by the time I finished that course, I was kind of looking further into my career, where I want to be. One of my friends actually went down from Barnes and College to Claridge's,
I don't know. That's a big thing. So he went to Claridge's, got the job, and he loved it there. He got beasted every day. But yeah,
he loved it and I was thriving on his stories when he'd come back for the days. We'd just talk food and London Seed and that's where I saw myself go in. So that's kind of where I started making inroads into looking at when I can get down to London.
When am I old enough? When can I do this? And yeah, I took the plunge at 18, 19. I took the plunge and moved down to London on my own. So then you moved to the big city. Yeah. I mean, monstrous city compared the Barnsley,
I could imagine. Yeah. Yeah. What was your first job? Right. So I a little bit of background. So I've been out in Barnsley on a Saturday evening and I got home.
And as any normal person would do, start looking for jobs. And it popped up on a website that Gordon Ramsay was was hiring at the Savoy Grill.
So I sent my application off and didn't think anything of it. Literally within two days, got back to me saying, come down for a trial shift. Let's see, and I was absolutely over the blame. I was buzzing and I went down there and grafted for 12 hours,
I was straight. And then a guy called Andy Cook took me into the chef's table and he said to me, look, I have a comfort position for you. You can start whenever,
as soon as possible, do you want to come and join us? And I was like, this is where we want to be. - So let's set the scene, George, on that particular day. You obviously, you were in London,
you came down, obviously you saw the Savoy, which is iconic in itself. You walked into that kitchen, which again, has a huge history. Tell me about that day.
Right, so this day, I put an oversized suit on, like every 18 -year -old man from Barza that goes to London, thinking that was the style.
I rocked up at the front entrance, not the staff entrance. Oh, right. And I got that in, and there was a sous chef called Lewis, and he said, "Are you here for a waitress job?" So obviously, I looked like a waiter in my big baggy suit.
I said, "No, I'm here for a coming chef." I was very wet behind the years, went downstairs and then got changed. My mate had let me his braguard jacket so I felt a million dollars going in and they put me on source section with straight away.
Yeah, so I went in to help out the guy on source and honestly within 10 minutes I cut myself on a mandolin because I was that nervous and I was just like a rabbit in headlights.
I was in awe of these chefs around me and I felt like I didn't belong And how many chefs were, do you remember the number? - Yes, I think there was, at the time,
there was 24. - In the kitchen time. - In the kitchen time. - But obviously the brigade was a lot bigger. - And what sort of time did you get in the morning there? - I was there at 7 .30. - And there was already guys in there that were pushing on hard.
- Right. - Obviously the main pass, we had a fish section on one side that were blasting out of fish prep, the meat chef at the other side. And I was just looking I was just looking at these guys thinking, "That's where I want to be.
I want to be there, pushing on and moving forward." So, as I mentioned, I've gotten on the source section, I was actually broomwashing vegetables, and look, I've learned all the basics.
But when you're in a kitchen in that environment, and it's a new kitchen, and there's guys that you look up to already, you've only just been there for 10 minutes, it was so nerve -wracking. Well, absolutely.
And The thing is that they don't teach you at college is that you can brunoise, so for people who don't know what brunoise is, it's a very fine dice, right? But the difference is, is that when you're at college, you're learning how to cut nice and gently.
These guys in Michelin -starred restaurants, they are cutting these veg a hundred miles an hour, and they expect you to do the same. Oh yes, definitely, especially in those first 10 minutes,
like I said, we'd be like, we need to get this done because we've got aches amount of sources to make. We've got aches amount of meat to prepare. We've got this braise to go on. And I'm just literally stood there thinking, "Fuck, what have I done here?" And it was grueling.
And then we went downstairs, literally five to five to 11, you got a five minute break. So when we had a quick coffee, went by straight back upstairs and then got self -service. And then that's from where I saw tasting plates for the first time.
So every section to put the tasting plates up to make sure consistency was there. And then, yeah, we started rocking into service and I was just like, again, you know, but the guy who was stood at the side of me was teaching me how to baste for the first time.
So we had a shadowed beyond on order and he's literally holding my arm at the side. He's like, you don't baste with your elbow. You baste with your wrist. So I'm there like that and he's at the back of me. It was a bit strange, but honestly,
like the smells, the different smells, the stockpots that were going all the time, the brazes that were going, and then in a heat service, we did 160 covers for lunch. Well, I didn't, obviously, but I was just looking at them like they were rock stars.
And I was thinking, I want to be you. And then I just wanted to work as hard as I could to be there. So at the end of it, it was literally there for 12 hours. We It took him and we're all into dinner service at this point.
So I sat down with him and he's like, "Do you want to join us?" I was like, I beat his hands off. It was like, "Where do I sign? When can I get down here? And when can I get in this kitchen?" So yeah, literally a month later,
I came down with my parents to to find a house to live. Obviously not knowing London. I'm going to zone six in Hendon, right, with a 81 -year -old Chinese woman who wouldn't let me use anything apart from my bedroom.
So I had my shower in my bedroom. I had to do my laundry on my days off in the laundry. It was a bit of a nightmare. But then work started. That's when the real graft really kicked in.
So then once you're in the Savoy, you're working there, which section did they put you on first? So because I was very fortunate again. So because I'd done my trial shift on source section,
Fabian at the time had requested that I go and help him be the commie on source. So I went straight in source section learning basic braziers and then moving on to we used to make an amazing sweet pudding,
steak and onion pudding and we served with poached oyster with a red wine stew that we've made us made obviously in house. And then you'd learn in cooking duck on the bone, prepping dugs,
prepping everything I imagine we would do. And from a, still a very young age and a very young naive cook, just taking everything in, writing everything down. I've got recipe bugs still with me today from those first early days.
- So then once you started on the sauce, did you start to shift around the different sections of the kitchen? - Yeah, so, but it wasn't, What we do is we kind of every Every season we would have a big change around in the kitchen So obviously the seniors would stay on on section so soon chefs would be on the section and then more of the juniors from coming up chef party would Rotate section so you get to see
everything and obviously he keeps you quite fresh in the mind. So We would Alternate from source section and then they put you on fish, and then it'd be garnished,
then it'd be larder. So it wouldn't be the same routine for everyone to go on sections, but you would learn the whole kitchen, then move on to pastry. So I got a very, I got a very good base skill in that world from that kitchen,
yeah. - So then how long did you stay at the Subway? - I was there for two and a half to three years. So yeah, it was, And like I said to you, it was such a great learning experience there.
And the guys, we had a core team, but then also we had the revolving door, like most restaurants, most restaurants did. So the core team that I was with,
a lot of us went on to do great things for the Ramsey Group opening restaurants, being head chefs, ground groups. So I kind of took that on board, wanted to work hard and then wanted to be part of that team that moved forward really.
So yeah, so two and a half, three years, and then from there, wanted to search for new opportunities, but stay within the group as well. So that's what I did. So then if we, of course,
I can't ignore the fact that it was the Savoy, Gordon Ramsay was there. How was he when you first met him? Honestly, I was starstruck.
I was young again, and when he walked through the kitchen, I was actually piping Little Shepherd's pies on the sauce section, and I just stood there with the piping bag open, and the potato just dripping on the floor,
and then Stuart Gillies looked over to me and went, "Barnsley, what the f -?" Because they used to call me Barnsley, obviously. It's like, "Barnsley, what the f - are you doing?" It was just mashed inside of me, and I was just staring.
But obviously, such a charismatic guy holds such a presence when he walks in the kitchen, but also really humble, especially with the team, would always go over,
shake everyone's hands, ask everyone how they're doing, just like any real great leader would, so yeah. But did you work with Justin Savoy or did you do other projects with him?
So I did other projects with him, I was fortunate enough to cook at his house, a little bit further down the line, cook at his house for Christmas Day,
for him and the Beckhams, with a guy of friend of mine called Alan Stewart, who is now head chef at Encore in Sydney, and we had a ball that day,
and the year previous I was with another friend of mine But yeah, we went over there and then I did some TV work for him and his daughter, Tilly. So I did quite a lot of projects with Gordon.
So that must have been quite amazing to sort of also be in that world with Gordon media. To sort of see all of that. Yeah, I think I've been very fortunate or very lucky.
Obviously, I've worked hard as well. So I think that I might be just playing it down a little bit. But yeah, to be in that world and see different aspects aspects of it and making the Meso Plus or four dishes instead of one just to be just to shoot one and making sure that everything's up to standards and just cooking for him I got a really I don't know I felt it wasn't just cooking for him I had the same
standard I had the same standard for everyone not just for cooking for Gordon so I think that's what's propelled me through my career is having a standard making sure that me and my team deliver that standard and yeah I was going to say to you also,
the fact that you're in that building, everyone in the world knows the Savoy here, whether it's through films, whether it's through just visiting London,
whatever it is, obviously they had the star. How was the pressure on a daily basis to ensure that those standards were met? Like I said to you, it was long hours,
we got in there early, made sure that we were set and we had tasting place to make sure that service was as smooth as possible. So like you say, your standards were set prior to service anyway. So everyone knew what they had to do.
Everyone knew their positions in the kitchen. Everyone was there to deliver a served product. And don't get me wrong, there were some times they got pretty heated in their kitchens,
especially when I first started in London were pretty brutal. But I think that's what that pressure makes diamonds as it did. Eight of us went on to become head chefs from there.
And like you say, pressures of service, service was brutal. But it was also amazing. So much exhilaration. And then to finish work after that exhilaration, then you've got to come down and be able to sleep for a couple of hours before you come back.
And that for me was difficult. I used to lay in bed. How could I have done this better? This was amazing today. What can we do tomorrow to be better?
And it was like my head was like a tumble dry constantly just thinking of food and think of new ingredients that we were getting in from suppliers that Were like literally just sending us free samples to be able to create and look we had our chef's table so that obviously we had our set menus and then the chef's table was really for junior chefs basically to be able to create and be able to move forward and kind
of show their skills for the for the guests that we're in. So we used to bring the chef's table down to cook the main course on the grill during the middle of service. Oh my god. So obviously Andy Cook used to love it,
putting you in the middle of service, checks backed, and then go and get And you're like, "Oh, fuck it, not again, not again." So then you go up,
you get them dressed in their aprons, they come down, you're still serving tables at the table, so you imagine the pressure of serving main courses to the actual restaurant, as well as cooking the main courses with the chef's table at the time.
And he would just absolutely, I would derail your service. And I think that they, they was kind of like that, That banter, they didn't want a derail service, but they wanted to see how far in the suit you could be.
So for those people who have not necessarily experienced a chef's table, in the Savoy, how many guests would you have maximum? Maximum, I think it was six guests that we would have. And they were in the kitchen?
Yeah, so it was actually literally above the garnish and meat section. And it was all glossed over, it was this beautiful room. - So the guests sitting at that chef's table could see everything.
Could they hear everything? - If the door was left open, they could definitely hear little bits. - So then let's paint the picture. It's a Friday night.
You've got 180 covers booked for service, fully packed. You're in the middle of service, deep in the weeds. And then all of a sudden the chef is like, right, chef's table,
come on. Six guests. So you have to go up to them, put them on in the chef whites. And because they're wearing their best dressed outfits, right? Of course. Yeah. So obviously the Savoy,
like you said, it's iconic. People get super dressed up. You have to go up there, give them their apron, get them to wash their hands. So you're just losing time constantly. So you're losing time constantly. And then you bring them down and then you've got to explain the stockpots.
You explain this. And nicely. Yeah. You can't show any... No, you can't be flustered. Yeah, exactly. So then you get back into it, you show them the grill, which is running at like 350 to 400 degrees.
You explain all the meats. And then they go, "Oh, it's a bit hot here." Yeah, exactly. And you're like, "There you go. Here's the tongs. Now you cook." Then I turn around and I'm trying to organize my check or whatever, then organise the rest of the brigade.
So the grill kind of ran the Savoy in a service sense because obviously most things came from there. Most proteins and things like that. So we run the service from there. So you would be telling the garnish,
veg up in two minutes, so on and so forth, right? Same, same with the fish section. Obviously fire their fish. Right. And obviously timing's key in kitchen. So if that starts going wrong, everything starts. Right.
So then you start getting the chef's table to be calling their tables down with the garnish section in mind, because they've got to garnish their plates. So the garnish should go in down at the same time.
And honestly, there were some days where service was perfect, even with chef's table, it was perfect. And some days it was absolutely proved. And there was nothing you could do, because you was just there like,
I've got 10 orders away, we're 10 tables away, 108 covers in the restaurant, Six covers cooking and they're just cooking on your grill. Like it's just a normal Yeah, yeah, slow. Yeah. Yeah. So and those chef's tables they've paid premium price to be there,
right? And obviously it's not just about the food. It's about the experience Getting to know the guys Building that rapport with them and then them cooking their main course So that they're basically paying for the privilege to cook their main course in the Savoy hotel.
hotel. And yeah, it was, honestly, that was, I look back now, one of my favorite kitchens I've ever worked, just for the food,
the ambience, the actual kitchen itself is amazing. And people that get to meet as well. So the chef tables, you get obviously everything from celebrities to business owners to Yari's Joe,
like me, and their families that come in and want to have a super special occasion. - And yeah, honestly, I'm smiling so much because that's how much it means to me. I just had so many great memories and fond memories from that.
- So then when did you, and why did you decide to move? - I think, as I mentioned, you don't want to become too stagnant or be in a raw way,
you just constantly doing the same thing. So I wanted to experience a few new things. I knew that Gordon was looking to open in in Battersea in London House I wanted to get a little bit more experience before then so I moved over to Maze and Maze Grill I was junior suit at the time and again,
just knew different experiences, but Maze kitchen was was a tough kitchen to be around and To be honest, I struggled in like to fit in there because I come from completely different Style style of cooking,
obviously Japanese -French and there was another tough change for it. And what was, so the style of food, so in the Savoy,
as you said, classical French, you knew it very well, you could smash out 300 covers plus if you needed to, and then you were moved to another branch, which was Ney's Grill.
So what was it about that particular kitchen that sort of, even as a junior sous chef, which is actually quite a full on position. What sort of set you back, do you think? I don't think,
for me, it was completely different. So we went from doing big numbers at Savoy and it was a little bit quieter over there in the sense of Maze Drill. And I wanted to get into Maze really. So I spent all the time in a smaller kitchen,
more close than it. I was used to having a bigger team around me. And I don't know, I think it might have been just my personality at the time. I think that I was, I enjoyed cooking still, but it wasn't the kind of where I wanted to be in my career.
It was a bit of a crossroads to be honest, because I knew where I wanted to be during the new opening. And for me, I kind of moved over to Maze and it was a little bit completely different in the sense of like gels and making foams and just completely different to the sense of food that I was used to cooking.
Right. And then fitting in there, I don't know, there was a core team there, and I kind of went in as junior Sue, and it was like a little bit of like that. Okay, okay. And yeah,
so then I got, literally was there for a couple of months, and then got the call back from Sam and Gregory saying, "Look, we're going to open here in Batsy. Come over." And That was a completely different experience.
So a great mentor, Anna Hoar, who worked at Peter Tertusa. She had an amazing palate. Her food was clean.
It was not too many ingredients on a plate, but just everything was cooked immaculately. And I wanted to be part of that. I pushed myself in there to be her number two,
I wanted to meet that. So I went in there and we opened with the ambition of getting a star in Lund House. And within the first couple of months, we got three rosettes, we pushed through and the business levels,
because it was quite on the way and quite restricted. No tube line, there's no bus room. So I didn't like that really. There's a bus room, sorry. It was quite quiet. So I stood there, moved up to senior suit within a year,
a smaller kitchen, learning a lot more management this time, not really as much cooking. I was on a section every day once, so we'd considered being on the pass with Anna. A lot more management and obviously flavor -wise from her.
And using seasonal products, we literally changed the menu every two weeks. Blimey, yeah. That's a challenge. So we'd get consistent for two, first week was a little bit of push, then we'd get consistent, then we've got to be already thinking about the next menu.
So we were moving constantly. And we had, I think it was 35 quid for three courses. We had only premium ingredients. You know, we had a scallop and lobster,
toilines. We had a vitella tonato from the best milk fed fields. And it was just amazing cooking. But as a business, it wasn't performing as the group would need to.
So I Anu eventually moved on and that's when I was approached by Chef Jockey, James Petrie, to kind of rebrand London House and I was,
what was that, 24 years old and take over as head chef. So at that age, well, I couldn't turn down that opportunity and I was so naive,
like so naive. I'd gone from sous -chef, don't get me wrong, pushing hard as a sous -chef to then steering the ship, having the responsibility as the P &L on me, everything was on me,
and menu design, creating with a smaller team. Oh my god, it was tough. How was your management style at the age of 24? Honestly, I can say this now and look back and be like,
yeah, that's not the way it should be, but I'd say naively aggressive. Was that because you had a point to prove? Yeah, definitely. I think not only to myself,
I had peers that we'd go and sit in a monthly meeting and I've got chefs that got Claire, Matt Arbay there, three Michelin staff, but the guys from Petruz won't start.
And then you look, I'm the youngest in the room by a country mine. And I'm the head chef and I'm like, I need to set my standard. This is how it is my way all the time.
And for me, that's, I look back now and kind of like look at myself and think, fuck me, what was I doing? But at 24 years old, you're naive. You're still learning how to cook,
let alone manage a team. - And you're working for one of the most iconic chefs in the world. Yes. So not easy? No, not at all. And I literally moved above the restaurant. Worst thing I've ever done in my life.
So I don't think I left Battersea. I don't think I left Battersea unless we went to a meeting with work. Right, right. I would start work at super early, 6am,
get the deliveries in, because I was the first there. I'd start prepping, then my team had come in, then we'd work together, then I'd be there till midnight, then I'd do all the ordering. And that's the thing,
I didn't utilize my team. And that's what the steepest learning curve was for me is that it wasn't delegation, it wasn't even management, it was pure survival almost.
- Correct, and it was me doing it. It wasn't me managing people, it was me trying to manage myself for what I can do. And you don't get the best out of people that way. And I learned that very quickly. I was very lucky that I had two great guys that were with me,
my sous chefs, who turned into my best friends, and we're still best friends today, but they were with me through thick and thin. Don't get me wrong, we produce so amazing food. We had some great reviews,
we got a five -star Metro view, we retained three free rosettes. We did really well, even though we changed the concept, and it was just breaking me. I Mentally my mental health was pretty pretty dire at the time This podcast is proudly sponsored by chef Middle East ever wondered if your culinary creations could reach new heights Chef Middle East delivers ingredients that serve up inspiration Let your creativity flourish
with an unmatched quality of specialty ingredients and cutting -edge kitchen solutions for over two decades Chef Middle East a chef's warehouse company has been the go -to distributor for chefs and culinary professionals across the Middle East and beyond.
For more information, go to www .chefmedaliste .com. Now back to the episode. So from the time that you got the job,
to by the time you sort of left there, how long did you stay there for as head chef? I wanted to do a year, minimum a year, even though it wasn't kind of the food that I wanted to be cooking.
It's a way of cooking for a star I wanted to be doing that. So a year passed and then I got the opportunity. May's lost a star and they kind of needed someone to help them out.
- Right. - And I was that guy. I was like, I needed out of London house. I needed out of Battersea, so it was literally like Stockholm syndrome at work every day. Because you've only got Chelsea in Fulham across the bridge.
So I literally would finish work, go around the back entrance and the back entrance where my apartment was. So I'd never left. So I got the opportunity to go back to Maze's as head chef and just kind of changed things a little bit.
And For me, it was quite nice being able to go in that position and obviously after things that happened before, go in there and kind of like pick the mood up kind of thing. Obviously, they'd lost the star,
they wanted to change the concept a little bit more, just quite quick snacky food, not all this super fine dining as it was. And yeah, I went there and I was there for eight months again,
and it was like, I need something new. I need something, a new challenge where for me, I'd be the head chef. I can go back and work as a sous chef somewhere and learn a lot more.
But at the time, maybe because I'm quite stubborn, I wanted to be a head chef somewhere. I was quite burnt out at this point. I took a little break and then went back and then move into the George Club in Mayfair.
So then tell me about that club because also Mayfair a premium address in London Surrounded by some of the best dining in the world.
Yeah, how was that for you a? massive culture shop to start with the club itself What a venue so super cool really old school at the time we had a rotisserie We had it was more brasserie style,
and I think that's kind of what I needed at the time is for me, it was more of a family. I needed that in my life at the time. I was on my own.
I pretty much isolated myself with work and I went in there and I met the general manager called Danieli Macaron and what a guy this guy is. Honestly, he'd been in the place for 20 years,
he started to come away and now he's general manager and that business was like his family. Everyone was like his family, so every morning, 11am, we would sit down, we would have family lunch,
and we weren't scraping on the food, so we'd be eating veal. We'd be eating all like, of course, we'd make a veal stew, but then we'd have like a tuna tartare, or we'd have an amazing pasta, because it was quite Italian -based.
They kind of just welcomed me in, and I needed that at the time. And then from there, we started growing the business. So it was downstairs, we had like a bit of a nightclub,
bar in nightclub. So we had a different menu down there. So we had some super cool snacks on. And then upstairs, we had the dining room on two sides and the kitchen and right at the back. So it was an open kitchen.
So my methods of management from London House definitely could not apply there. And the team, we had a massive team because they invested so much in the people and people had a life there,
which is, which was different for me. So what were the usual working hours then for you? I would still force myself to do doubles, but everyone else would be looking at one double a week and four singles.
So a single is more like eight, ten hours? Less than that. I'd say I think it was about seven hours that they would do. - Wow. - So yeah, so they come in and literally they come in if they're on a morning shift,
they start at what is it? Like nine a .m. and then after lunch service, that'd be a packing down, getting their orders in, going home. - Nice, eh? - Honestly, amazing. This is what I say is like,
from me going from this. - Yeah, almost 20 hours a day, you know? - Yeah, mental hours to then realizing, Jesus, there's a life, you can still serve amazing food,
don't get me wrong, but you can also have a life. And that was because they'd invested in the team. There was, what was there was 25 chefs. And we do, it was a seven day operation,
only open five day, five lunches, but we had a team there. We had a team that could, it was as much smaller operations where we had 100 seats. So it was Just busy,
but being able to cope and manage and being able to deliver an amazing product. The guys have an amazing life outside of work and have that balance. And then to feel welcomed within the company,
and as you mentioned, where you are, you've got Scots over the road, you've got 34, you've got Harry's Bar next to you, and they're all owned by an amazing restaurant tour, which you're caring, so Working for that group was amazing.
So for anyone who doesn't know, those clubs are private members of clubs, right? So you have a certain level of cleontel, I would say,
that they do expect the very best, but it's more kind of super private, if you like. Yeah. So obviously work, this is where the big difference was, is that the cleontel that we had was,
You never knew who you could be cooking for so you could be cooking for a shake or you could be cooking for a politician Or you'd have a really famous president that come in who'd who've been there.
So just chillin out. Yeah And that's because he was so private they fell at her home Okay, and they could actually there was no cameras in the club Sure, you could they could come in could have a coffee they could have a whiskey they could have their dinner and they could actually relax.
And we had an amazing cigar terrace where people would come and smoke absolutely huge cigars, which would walk through the restaurant. But like you say, you had to be of a certain caliber of person,
whether that be a high -ranking official or things like that, to become a member of the club. So yeah. And how long were you there for? I was there for just under four years.
I was there. So you must have enjoyed it. Honestly, I felt like I was part of a family. I loved the guests because they feel like they're not being approached. They feel comfortable.
They would actually come and talk to us and you'd have amazing famous spaces, core speed to you like a normal person. And like I said, we were using the best products we could possibly buy these people.
So there wasn't really that or we have to buy this beef shin to raise it down to be able to sell it for this amount of money because of this, because of the P &M. You can buy the top A5 wagyu.
You can charge the money for it. You can buy this 500 -gram white Arbor truffle, which we did on many occasions and we'd have that presented in the middle of the restaurant, which would last literally a day.
because when it was truffle season, that was it. - Everybody knew. - Yeah, so we'd have the simplest dish in the world. We'd have a homemade tagliolini with a super delicious butter emulsion.
And we'd just finish it with an absolutely mountain of white truffle. And people come in for that. It was simple, but it was super tasty. And that's what we delivered to our guests.
- But also that must have also honed in the type of food that you're doing now. Because if we fast forward, you're now in Abu Dhabi in, again,
an incredibly iconic location. Tell me about the brasserie. So as you mentioned, the iconic location, we're in the Mandarin Oriental Emirates Palace,
the most beautiful space for me personally anyway. In I mean, we have an amazing 1 .3 kilometer private beach, the only one in the EU,
sorry, UA. And then we have a spot which is completely different to the decor in the hotel. So we have a brassery named Broadway.
We have 270 seats. We've got an amazing bar, beautiful terraces, and at the back we've actually got a private,
speakeasy theater as well. So yeah, the place we have is amazing. And as I mentioned, completely different to the actual hotel. So it's really easy going,
but super delicious food, amazing cocktails. - So walk me through the menu. What sort of things have you decided to sort of put on there? Which heavy hitters are working well? - Like we said,
we've got a lot of great food. We've got a lot of great food. We've got a lot of great food. We've got a lot of great food. We've got a lot of great food. We've got a lot of great food. We've got a lot of great food. We've got a lot of great food. We've got a lot of great food. We've got a lot of great food. We've I like it. Like we said, all the Brasri style, I kind of look back more on my Savoy days
and things that we did at London House and kind of compiled all these things together. So we've got quite a mix of really old school cooking with some new school techniques.
So we have a lobster and a Bennett. So, for example, we've got So the best eggs we can get, soft scrambled, gruyere cheese poached lobster in its own lobster stew. And we top that with a hollandaise mix with English mustard and gruyere cheese again.
And we bake that, it's super rich. And it's super delicious. - Very decadent. - Yeah, and like for me, it's not, some people might think it's an omelet that's for breakfast or brunch.
For me, you could eat this dish every day of the week and it's to die for. And then we have Escargo, which we do a little bit different. So we got a nice puree on the base, braised snails and garlic butter,
red wine juice topped with a garlic butter panko. And then we gratinate that and we serve that as well. - And are you up for lunch or dinner? - So we open at 3 p .m.
and then we're open till 1 a .m. So we have our last orders for Alucard is 11. And then we do bar snacks, some really cool bar snacks, actually, up until 1 a .m. Yeah. And considering your background,
you've been in the region, obviously, so it's very, very different. But we still have now in the region, we have 50 Best. They've gone below, obviously Missioning.
What are your aspirations for the restaurant? Are you there specifically to gain accolades or you more looking to just cook really incredible food? I think for me personally,
it's like, I love Michelin, I love Corn Millet, and 50 Best. I think that for me, I want to be cooking consistent, delicious food with the best produce,
and that's when accolades will follow. But for me, consistency, I'm an happy team that serve amazing food to I guess, I think that that's my core belief currently.
And then look, don't get me wrong. I would love an accolade like Moshe S. Wood, but the business running and be consistent and serving amazing food. Yeah. Because also it's a very different crowd to London,
obviously. If we're talking specifically brassery, how are you looking to sort of ensure that Yeah, the right types of clean tell to the hotel because don't get me wrong Abu Dhabi Mandarin Oriental Phenomenal location.
Yeah, you've got different restaurants everywhere. You're not competing but you are competing. So, so how do you bring them in? We use like so we use the best produce we cook it exceptionally well and it might be brasserie But it's a super high in brasserie,
right, you know, it's not fish fish and chips, you can come in, you can have an amazing dover salt, which has been line caught in France, or you can come in and you can have an amazing six,
seven mile score ribeye, cooked on our josper, which is over a big tonne coals. And then you can go in and have our foie gras, which we've painstakingly prepped ourselves, we've marinated it,
we've cooked it beautifully. So with a homemade chutney, Everything's made in us. Everything's made to a standard that I would happily serve anywhere in the world. And we're not about fussy too many items on the plate.
We are about three, four ingredients on a plate, all cooked exceptionally well by my team, not just me, because they're the superstars really behind the business. And yeah,
that's what we aim for. We aim to serve really high -end brasseries food. The thing is, is that here, when you say brasserie, people are sort of thinking casual dining,
but actually what you're talking about is actually a very high -end level of dining, but in a relaxed kind of atmosphere. - Yeah, I would say that it's more fine dining,
as you mentioned, in the casual atmosphere. That's why we call it a brasserie, 'cause I think we appeal to all aspects of me. We have amazing food, like I mentioned. We have some of the best cocktails in the hotel.
Maybe Abu Dhabi. We have amazing pop -ups from some of the world's 50 best bars coming in and collaborations that we're doing with some great chef star in the future, shall I say? It's okay,
but look the other thing I wanted to ask you as well is that from a young age you've been leading brigades? Yeah. Now when I first came to the region 12 years ago, nobody warned me about the cultures,
what was not acceptable to lead a brigade in this region. And I learned very quickly what was the right thing to do. Now, with your experience now,
how are you as a leader when leading so many different cultures and people and how to talk to them and all that sort of thing. I think I was set up very well from the George Club.
We had quite a lot of different nationalities, different opinions show us here on life and now obviously we've come over. I've got six different nationalities in the kitchen. We have a nice mixture between men and women and I think there's just about mutual respect.
I think it's I respect the guys that come in, they want to learn. I'm very fortunate with my team that they do. And then I also think that they know when they need to knuckle down and be able to crack on with their work.
And like Sam, I'm exceptionally fortunate. I know you mentioned 12 years ago that it was a bit different for you when you were making me, but I've been very fortunate with the team that I've had that they all want to come to work to learn things.
So, and that's what I kind of put into my team now is that I've realized that I can't do on my own. I have to have a strong team around me for me to be successful and my team to be successful. So we put a lot of effort into the guys with prepping fish.
We have a butchery in the hotel, but we prep our own fish in the restaurant. So the guys can learn new skills. We prep all I meet ourselves. We learn technique, suspend time with them, making their emotions,
making their dressings even from the basics. And then we build on that. And I think that's what keeps the guys interactive with what we're trying to do and what we're trying to deliver and it keeps them quite fresh in the mind as well.
So I've not really got to that stage where I have to deeply manage them, which is quite ideal currently. But I think my management style, like I said to you, it's about mutual respect and also having fun.
There's no point going to work for eight to nine hours if you can't smile and laugh with your team, because for me, and my personality at least, I definitely need that. And then I think that's what you get the best out of people is that they feel comfortable at work.
They can talk to me about anything work related and also outside of work. I'm there to listen to them. That's what I was going to ask you, George, because you mentioned earlier that you were at the point of burnout in London.
Now, with kitchens in general, what would you like to see more of from the human sustainability factor, because that's a key thing. And let's not kid ourselves,
being a chef nowadays is not easy, and not everybody wants to jump in the kitchen anymore. You know, it's not easy. How would you want to attract that more? - I think that's the one thing that you did say is human.
I think that that's what we need to look at. We are humans, we're not machines. Every human has their own personal issues, whether that's in work, whether that's in outside work, but having that kind of like caring nature I understand that a job needs to be done but the job is not going to be done if your team don't feel like they're wanted,
like they're part of something that's growing and I think that everyone wants to learn, everyone wants to move into different positions So for me personally, it's part of my duty to be able to propel them into the next part of their career.
I know that people are not going to stay with me for the next 10, 15 years. Sure. So I want to be able to set people up with the basic skills, whether it's a comedy, they come in, they learn the basic skills,
we develop them, then they move on and someone else can mold them even further. Or then my sous chefs, I want to be able to develop them into head chefs. And I think that you need to have a personal touch with your staff now.
You can't just be that authoritarianism because the world's changing. The world has changed, especially from the time I was in London anyway, and I've seen that over the years.
I've worked in the industries that we have a lot of young chefs now that they come in and they spend six months in the kitchen, and that's it. They don't want to do their job anymore. So we need to be able to give them the tools to one,
want to stay in the industry, to develop themselves within this industry, then look at being the future leaders of the industry as well. So I think that we need that platform to be able to build for them. And what would you like to see in the future when it comes to the predictions,
not just in Abu Dhabi, but in the UAE when it comes to dining? I think that in the UAE and Abu Dhabi, I think just keep going from strength to strength. Like you mentioned, we've got Michelin here now,
we've got Gautamele, World's 50 best and we've lucky to have two Michelin star restaurants in the palace itself. So to be able to Keep Developing the food scene.
There's so many great chefs in Dubai and in Abu Dhabi. So You're you're talking you Jason after turns of the world You're the guys that are there have been pushing Michelin for years and now that's what they're doing with the scene I think that the scene is starting to emulate or if not emulating the rest of the world with London,
with France, I think that that's a great thing for young chefs and looking at moving over to the UAE to be able to develop their skills here now. Absolutely, because that's the thing I see a lot of is that we have huge amounts of talents from Europe,
US, Australia, they're all moving here, you know, to make a name and also be part of something here, like yourself, which is fantastic. So look, George, now we've come to the quick fire questions of the show.
These are specifically for you. Okay. So first things first, are you sweet or salty? I'm salty. All right. Beef Wellington or lamb sauce? Beef Wellington.
100%. But I've got to say though, when you're making the lamb sauce, it's quite complex. People don't know how - Which it takes to make a lamb sauce, right? - To make a good lamb sauce, yes, though, yeah. But we have a good Wellington in the restaurant,
so. - Savoy or maize? - Savoy. (laughing) - Top three culinary heroes, and they don't necessarily need to be chefs. - And we'll warn Gordon,
to Anthony Bourdain. - The legend. - I think three. - Marco, - Marco, Pierre White. - Marco. We're at the moment right now. What would you say are your top three cuisines that you go to?
- Well, I have a young family. So my boy, he loves his pizza. So a pizza has to be a very tiny pizza. Love Asian Japanese food. And we were talking about earlier,
but I love a barbecue brisket as well. - Oh, nice, nice. Now, if it was your last day on earth and you had to have a specific meal, what would it be? I would have a Dorchester Sunday roast dinner.
And it has to be that specific, right? Why? Because Tomboutan is amazing. Is he? I haven't been there, but yeah. Now, from all of your years working in the kitchen.
What would you say has been your funniest ever kitchen incident that you've either seen or been involved in? There's so many.
There's so many to picture. So, right, I'll give you a quick story. It wasn't funny at the time, but now I look back and it's absolutely hilarious. So this goes back to Leonard House.
It was Christmas Eve, it was the end of service and we'd slowed down a little bit and I'm making a chocolate tart, three to be precise. So I've got my pastry already lined, it's already baked.
I've just made my actual ganache and then we're gonna cook it 100 degrees, no fan. This is the element, no fan for an hour, just so it sets and it's literally like a mirror at the top of it,
it's beautiful, you cut through it, it's stunning. So there's five minutes left on this on this top and I tell everyone in the kitchen at times like do not touch the oven. I'm just going outside to make a phone call for the orders.
Six and a half minutes later I come back in and the oven's still on and I look at the oven and it's 190 Celsius. So 90 Celsius is about what you should have been Anyway,
and it's the fans on full and there is literally an aero chocolate tart And I don't honestly my mind cannot I can't tell you The emotions that were going through me because I don't think it's it's Yeah,
arable right on here. Right, right, right, but I literally walked over to the oven I opened it up and I didn't even have a towel, I was that angry. I pulled the trays out and I was just shaking.
I was just shaking and my fingers are burning at the time. - No. - And everyone, you know when people are just smirking and you can't help but want to cry.
- Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - So I just literally just dropped it on the floor. I dropped the towel on the floor. I was like, get me everything weighed out for a new one. And my voice is just quivering and thinking to myself,
"Fuck, I may have to stay here till 3 a .m. Now to the lines from New Tars, make a new case, and it's Christmas Day tomorrow, so we can't mess that up, can we?" But now I look back and I think, "Fuck it, I was very mad." Did you find out who did it?
Yes. Okay. He came back to work on Christmas Day and he stayed with us for another year. Very good. Yeah, very good. Yeah, It was a commie, CDP, Stuart. He was a commie.
Right. But looking back now, Luke, he, I think he learned his lesson. Well done for keeping it together. Yep. Yeah, I don't know what I would have done. No, yeah, it was, like I say,
it wasn't funny at the time, but now looking back, it was so hilarious. There was just chocolate timings on the floor, but there was just... Yeah. No fan. Yeah. No fan, 100 degrees. What advice would you give to any young chef moving forward that wants to really push themselves in this career?
Get into a good kitchen, get into an amazing kitchen, knuckle down, work hard, don't be afraid to fail, because when you fail, you learn, when you learn, you fail again, and you learn even further,
and that's how the only way that you're going to develop it. Make sure you get into a kitchen that's doing all the right, in their own sources. They're making their own pastry. They're making their own ice creams and learn and be a sponge and take everything in and then work on your palate,
tasting, seasoning, tasting, seasoning, everything that you do and then work hard and you will achieve. What advice would you give to a 16 -year -old George Lyon?
Wow. That's a deep question, actually. I more focus more on what your ambitions are and what you want to achieve and don't let distractions that come in everyday life,
don't let those distractions knock you and make sure that you work as hard as you already have, but harder. Now, George, if anybody wanted to get a hold of you through socials,
how can they do that? So I'm on Instagram. My handle is @lion, so @lyon. There's three underscores underneath, so a bit of a strange one.
And that'll take you to my Instagram, which is more about my food style and what we do on a day -to -day basis in the restaurant. And then obviously at the restaurant itself, Broadway and Rich Palace.
I'll put all of those in the show notes as well so everybody can have those links. Now, George, I just wanted to have a quick recap because it's been quite extensive, you know? So from your amazing childhood memories,
of course, going to the butcher, having that kitchen life, that camaraderie, which I think is phenomenal, to then going to college, learning everything, to then making the big move over to the big smoke and learning so much about,
not just about cooking, but also about yourself, your management style, London house maze. I mean, it's amazing plus private members club, which sounds like a dream job,
to be honest. So then, of course, coming to the capital, opening Broadway and this most, one of the most iconic locations in the world, I have to say,
Michelin guiding everybody, your team, aspirations for the future, it's just been amazing. On behalf of the Chef JKP podcast, I just want to say thank you so much for coming all the way over from Abu Dhabi to being here with us and it's been absolutely incredible.
I wish you the very best of luck and I know you're going to go places. Thank you so much. Honestly, thank you for having me. It's been great. Honestly, it's been fun, which I've enjoyed. I've really enjoyed going back through some memories which has made me smile from ear to ear all the way through.
So thank you for having me. What an absolute legend. How amazing must have been to work at a butcher shop at such a young age,
soaking up all of that knowledge and no doubt learn a few tricks of the trade. And considering that George has already made his mark in the region, I have no doubt he's starting to come into his own.
The background he has in classical French cuisine. I'm sure is what gives him the base to cook exceptional dishes and to cook them in an already exceptional setting.
I have to say, it could not have been easy to have been such a young head chef in a company that has such a huge global name. Plus to then sit in a room with full of established names not easy to do but still come out on top.
George also touched upon the incredibly important point which was about pivoting and having family within his workplace which is incredibly important. George will no doubt go from strength to strength.
I hope you managed to learn a few lessons along the way especially about high -pressured kitchens and always no fan when cooking the chocolate tart. If you want to see more of what George is doing I'll place all of the details in the show notes.
A big thank you to JJ and the entire team at Podcast Now for producing the show and don't forget you can now watch us on YouTube. If you haven't already make sure to follow share and subscribe.
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Finally a big fat thank you to you you absolute legends for listening to the entire show so until next time food is memories