The Hospitality Fixer Who Knows Why Guests Don’t Come Back | Samuel Graham

What happens when someone who once worked underground in engineering tunnels ends up shaping some of hospitality’s most iconic guest experiences?

Chef JKP sits down with Samuel Graham, founder and CEO of The LightUp Group, hospitality consultant, nightlife operator, and host of the Tasty Humans podcast.

From bartending in London’s booming theme restaurant era to managing legendary nightlife venues like Pacha, Samuel shares a career shaped by chaos, people, reinvention, and an obsession with how hospitality makes people feel.

At its core, this is a conversation about service. About atmosphere, human connection, leadership under pressure, and why hospitality is ultimately not about food or design, but about understanding people.

WHAT YOU WILL HEAR IN THIS EPISODE

• Samuel’s childhood in the UK and the food memories that stayed with him
• How engineering led him underground before hospitality pulled him in
• The film Cocktail and the start of his obsession with bartending
• Lessons from Rainforest Cafe, Planet Hollywood, and London’s service culture
• Managing nightlife venues like Pacha and learning leadership under pressure
• Why atmosphere, lighting, music, and service shape how guests feel
• The thinking behind The LightUp Group and improving guest experience
• Tasty Humans, unscripted conversations, and why hospitality is all about people

CHAPTERS

00:00 Childhood food memories and growing up in the UK
08:00 School struggles, engineering, and early life lessons
18:00 London tunnels, burnout, and changing direction
27:00 Discovering bartending and hospitality
38:00 Rainforest Cafe, Planet Hollywood, and service culture
58:00 Pacha London, nightlife, and leadership under pressure
01:16:00 Service standards, atmosphere, and guest experience
01:42:00 Tasty Humans, podcasting, and advice for hospitality professionals

FOLLOW THE GUEST

Samuel Graham
Instagram
https://www.instagram.com/samuel_f_graham/

Tasty Humans Podcast
https://www.instagram.com/tastyhumanspodcast/

FOLLOW CHEF JKP

Instagram
https://www.instagram.com/chefjkppodcast

LinkedIn
https://www.linkedin.com/in/james-knight-paccheco-447b1b17

TikTok
https://www.tiktok.com/@jamesknightpaccheco

PROUDLY BROUGHT TO YOU BY VALRHONA

Valrhona partners with chefs and artisans to elevate chocolate through craftsmanship, innovation, and a commitment to a more sustainable cocoa industry.

Website:
https://www.valrhona.com/en/valrhona-middle-east-africa-and-india

SUPPORT THE SHOW

Stay hydrated with the Chef JKP thermos flask.
Get yours here: https://pay.ziina.com/chefjkp/RKwVHDfpN

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

That's right. The podcast is now on YouTube. So you can watch all of the interviews at your leisure. At the same time, your contribution to the show by hitting that subscribe button makes a monumental difference to the show, as we can keep inviting the guests you love and keep having the conversations that no one else is having. The only thing that I ask is that you share the show. Welcome to the ChefJKP podcast with me, James Knight Pacheco. Culinary brothers and sisters, foodie disciples, this is the place where you will find your solace. A place of worship for all things that combine us together. The common thread that brings us around the table. Food and memories. Wherever you are in the world, whatever you're doing, I ask that you sit back and listen and perhaps take away a few morsels of advice. There will be laughter, we're gonna get serious. Above all, lessons for life. You're listening to the Chef JKP podcast, and this is what you can expect on today's show.

SPEAKER_02 1:13

Hospitality is losing. Save our industry, please. The number one commodity that we sell in hospitality is escapism. I go to work, I have my 9am to midday, and then I go for lunch. It's escapism. How do you want the guest to feel? It's not about how do you want your venue to look, it's how do you want a guest to feel? When you introduce yourself to a table, it's an instant confidence builder. You say your name to a stranger. You know, there's a psychological thing happening there. No one likes public speaking, it's horrible. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 1:44

What advice would you give to anyone who is wanting to start their journey within service and hospitality? It's all about people.

SPEAKER_02 1:52

What do people want? What do they do? Why are they here? Why did they come out?

SPEAKER_00 1:57

And hello my friends, and a very warm welcome back to another episode of the Chef JKP podcast. First of all, a massive thank you for tuning into the show week in and week out. Your loyalty is not taken for granted. I'm eternally grateful that you watch or listen to us whilst driving in the gym or wherever you are. Thank you so much for bringing me into your lives. I hope that what we do here truly makes a difference, and I mean that in every way possible. Well, before we dive in, if you haven't already, please do not forget to hit that all-important subscribe button on YouTube or press follow wherever you get your podcasts. As it helps us to grow the show. We can keep on bringing you the most fascinating conversations with the most fascinating guests. That's all I'll ever ask. Well, who is today's guest? I have to say, a super serious operator in the world of hospitality. Sam Graham is the founder and CEO of the Light Up Group, a company known for sharpening concepts and redefining the guest experience. He also happens to have a podcast titled Tasty Humans. Quite a cool title, I have to say. And uh he actually invited me onto his show, which is how we met. And if you've ever been to an amazing restaurant, you've had amazing service or hospitality, you'll know the magic doesn't happen by accident. It takes creativity, planning, and usually a small army of incredible professionals who work behind the scenes to make it happen. Today we're going to explore that world: the world of bars, restaurants, entrepreneurship, and how experiences shape the way we connect with hospitality. Listen up for a story about a search in a nightclub. Time to rock and roll. Just before we begin, here is a small message from this week's guest.

SPEAKER_02 4:18

My name is Samuel Graham, the CEO and founder of the Light Up Group and the creator of the Tasty Humans podcast. But if you like this podcast, then make sure that you follow, share, and subscribe. I would have to say, if I go right back to the like, let's say my earliest memory, I would have to say that my real mother doing uh bacon on toast and cutting it up with a pair of scissors into squares, and me uh eating it with a fork and absolutely loving it. Nice. Yeah, I think that's the the first moment where I you realised that food was really good.

SPEAKER_00 5:13

Lots of umami going on already. Yeah, I'm picturing it, you know, and with textures and tastes and things like that. Yeah. So okay, and how big was the family?

SPEAKER_02 5:23

Uh there's only uh there's only four of us. Um, and uh yeah, I think I think like I say, I mean, um early stages of my life, uh my dad, his job was to to just he worked a lot uh going away. He was a cargo surveyor, so sort of every week to ten days he's out of the country for a couple of weeks. So it's very much like me, my sister, and my mum. Um, and yeah, that was it, four people, you know. And so how good a cook was your mum? See, that's an interesting question because I was a really fussy eater. Uh I I remember not liking many, many things, and so I think that um I think she was probably an amazing cook, but I limited the options, you know.

SPEAKER_00 6:12

And you're older or younger sibling?

SPEAKER_02 6:15

Older.

SPEAKER_00 6:16

You're so you're you're the oldest. No, I was the youngest. Oh, you were the youngest. I was the youngest. Okay. And uh sister? Um two years older than me. Okay. So both of you uh who who was the more responsible? And was it your sister or were you more of the oh my sister? Yeah? Yeah, yeah. Okay. So then what were the sort of types of food? Yeah, apart from that amazing sandwich, by the way. What were the other types of foods that sort of were quite prevalent in in in in your household or when you were with your mates?

SPEAKER_02 6:49

Um, I mean, we were talking about the 80s. Do you know what I mean? That's that's that's sort of like um sort of my first sort of so essentially when it comes to my family. So I think I think the important thing maybe to show me is my mum passed away when I was 10 years old, and then the family got a lot bigger. Do you know what I mean? Um, and that's where my stepmother was much more of a cook and introduced me a lot into cooking.

SPEAKER_01 7:11

Right.

SPEAKER_02 7:12

Um, so I think that the the first sort of stage, yeah, in the 80s, it's all sweets, me and my mate sweets. You know what I mean? I I think one thing that springs to mind was when uh Mars brought out a king-size Mars for the first time. I thought all my Christmases had come at once because it was about this big me.

SPEAKER_00 7:28

Yeah, I mean, those that were they're brick, they were bricks. I remember when they came out and they were like monsters, man. Yeah, I mean, to get through one of those was a you know a feat in itself. Yeah, I was doing one a day. Yeah. So after school, king size. Yeah, it's mental. Okay. So if you talk about then your teenage interests at school, what would you say you were good at?

SPEAKER_02 7:50

I see, school, I think, you know, you end up in hospitality for a reason. School, I I wasn't overly enthusiastic about it. I didn't really enjoy the classroom kind of situation. I think that on a day-to-day basis, I was interested in uh art, craft design technology, as we called it, CDT. I was interested in home economics because it was about cooking. Um I wasn't really I was into sport. Um, I suppose the subjects that that I really paid no attention to history, geography, the sciences. I I never really sort of wanted to do any of those maths. I was really good at English. I was okay till I got expelled from one of my GCSEs.

SPEAKER_00 8:32

So why did you get expelled?

SPEAKER_02 8:33

I was cheating. How how were you cheating? You really want to know? Yeah, no, 100%. Okay, so uh, you know, in in you get six weeks off um school holidays, and they gave us a big assignment to read a book and write an essay on it. Of which, like many kids, I was just like, yeah, okay, whatever. I I found it really boring to sit and read books. Um, I didn't have the concentration for it or the focus. Um, and so what I I did to a friend of mine is I said, Look, you know, can I can I borrow yours? Do you know what I mean? He said, Well, I've handed it in, and then essentially he said, Well, you know, if you can get it, then you can. So essentially, I yeah, I broke into the classroom, um, into the cupboard, found the file, took his out, took it home, rewrote it, and I actually got caught putting it back. Yes, yeah, it's like, you know, it's like I broke back into the classroom and I actually got it back in the file and and I turned round and the teacher what didn't follow me, it came in for like their reasons, and I'm standing there, and yeah, my world came crashing down around me at that point. Yeah, that was not fun.

SPEAKER_00 9:49

Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_02 9:50

Can't believe we got to that story. That's do you know what?

SPEAKER_00 9:53

But that's really what did that teach you?

SPEAKER_02 9:58

Um there's a funny, there's so what happened next was obviously, you know, everything went nuclear, and parents are called in, and my dad and my stepmum are there in the headmaster's office, and um and and I supp and and I'm not I'm I'm really really not trying to be clever with this kind of statement, but it was like they were interrogating me as to what happened, and I turned around and I said, you know, they were saying things like, you know, it's almost word for word, and I'm like, yeah, but it's about the same book, you know, a young, I think I was about 14, waffling out some sort of excuses and stuff like this. And the thing is, is that they told me to go stand outside, and as I was leaving the room, the headmaster said to my dad, he goes, Your son could talk his way out of a murder rap. And and so I kind of realized then that I had like a I suppose a uh a possible skill in talking. It kind of I I got in a lot of trouble, and I can tell you now that I really do regret it, and that's not me being on camera saying it, because I I failed all my GCSEs, and at the time, you know, you think it's cool, and and then I look back at it and I'm like, you idiot. You know, I I didn't I I don't look at that as a cool story to tell. You know, there was that moment that I I felt that talking and using my voice and um that is something that I should look at possibly doing, but um it it definitely taught me at that moment don't there's a line that's been drawn. I didn't get expelled, I got actually expelled from the exam itself. There was a GCSE which was English literature and English language, and I was expelled from English literature, and luckily I didn't get expelled from the whole school because if I had, uh I think that would have been a uh quite a nasty turning point in my life.

SPEAKER_00 11:48

So for people who don't know, GCSEs are the sort of exams that you take as a teenager in the UK, basically to sort of see whether you're gonna get into college or further education or so on and so forth, right? But you know, I think that's quite a cool way to segue into later down the line the the different skills that that you would have acquired in order to gain from a very painful lesson, you know, of course. Um but also I think it's quite a valuable lesson to learn at quite a young age, you know. Yeah. Not not not something that, of course, not something that you're proud of, but it would have taught you several things.

SPEAKER_02 12:37

It it I think that I mean, in reference to what I said earlier about my my mother passing away, that was a few that happened like three or four years after that that moment. And I think the bit in between, um I was very um I don't really care. Do you know what I mean? Right. I don't care. Right, right, right. I don't care. I I wasn't violent or anything like that, but it was very disruptive. So I was like, you know, I don't care about school, I don't care about grades, I don't care about you know what I mean. And and there was a lot of those moments, and I think that that one moment was like, stop it. Right. Do you know what I mean? Stop it. Because I was smart enough to acknowledge that actually getting expelled from education is would would would be a very bad thing to have. And I did my my I I learned from it, I did one more year, I did my final year, and I was I was I knuckled down, I have to say, it it it pulled me in line. I'm very grateful to the school for not expelling me.

SPEAKER_00 13:32

Yeah, so so after that tumultuous time, yes, did you end up going to college?

SPEAKER_02 13:38

No, I went, so I um became an engineer. So because I liked art and craft and and and stuff. I don't know. Um you you so you did something called work experience in in the second to last year of school, you did work experience where you you go and work in a different sort of thing, and I ended up in an engineering firm. But but how did that come about? That was the school. So that's they put you in the in. That was the school of my stepmother. Okay, yeah, and um, and then I I went into that and I really enjoyed it. It was two weeks, and I really, really enjoyed it, you know, using your hands, making stuff, you know. They got me doing like bit sort of painting window frames and chopping up tons of metal objects, and and I really, really enjoyed it. And when I was coming to the end of my fifth year, it was my stepmother, God bless her, that reached out to them and said, Do you actually have like an apprenticeship? Because if he goes to college or university, then um he's gonna struggle because it's just gonna be rinse and repeat, sitting in classrooms and possibly being quite, you know, disruptive. So yeah, I I I went to uh be a precision engineer and I did one day a week at at uh college and I really enjoyed it. I loved it. And how long was that apprenticeship for? That was from summer of 92 to the summer of 95. And after you graduated, you carried on in engineering? This was in uh place called Lincolnshire. Um, and at the time I had I moved out of home when I was 17, uh, which was 94. And then all my friends, two of my friends, actually, my best friend moved to I'm originally from London, but we we moved up to Lincolnshire when the family got bigger. And then my best friend moved back down to London, and so we naturally gravitated to going ourselves. So I I graduated, I passed all of the exams uh with the apprenticeship, which was which was great. And then a week later I packed a rucksack and got on a bus and moved back to London. I think I was 19 and then um tried to what year was that 95, tried to continue it, um, but it's a much different situation. Any type of engineering plants in London are on the outskirts of London, and we were living in zone two.

SPEAKER_00 16:00

Right.

SPEAKER_02 16:01

So I suppose an easy way to put it into context was my my last engineering job was at Heathrow Airport, but I lived in central London, so it was two hours to get to work, two hours to get home. It was uh 12-hour shifts, it was six days, two days off, and then it was it was 7am to 7 p.m. And then you rotated to do 7 p.m. to 7am, and I did that for about eight months, and I was like, I can't do this anymore.

SPEAKER_00 16:28

But even at that age, you know, 19, you're sort of full of beans, full of energy. But that sounds hardcore.

SPEAKER_02 16:36

It was, it would, it was so it was the um underground tube link that was being built from Gatwick, um, not Gatwick, uh, from Victoria Station to Heathrow Airport, I think it's Victoria. And yeah, I had to I had to go there, I had to um uh put a uh a Theodolite on my back, which is if you ever see civil engineering building roads and that, you see someone with a tripod, and there's a big thing on top of it, and they're mapping out the direction long term of the roads anyway. And this is very heavy. I'd put this thing on, I had to climb down selection of ladders about a hundred about 150 feet down and then with this thing on your back. With this thing on my back, and then walk out another how we took till you got to they were using the same sort of machines that uh dug the channel tunnel. Right. And so you're walking up there and doing your stuff, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:24

Weird question. Did you have any sort of back protection?

SPEAKER_02 17:28

No, so it was one of those, so it was one of those set of ladders where it goes down like 10, then there's uh a platform, and you come that way, ten, that way, ten, and you couldn't fall out of it, it had like a cage around it. Right, okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:39

Climbing up was a mission, yeah. But that sounds like a very serious job. But not only that, I mean the job itself is quite serious, but the the commute sounds horrible. That was awful. Two hours to get there, two hours coming back. So, of course, it took it massively out of you. So by the end of those eight months, what were you thinking?

SPEAKER_02 18:01

Um, just that it it you know, it just can't continue. I'm not I'm not happy. That that I th I think that was the thing I'm I'm just not I was just not into it. It was like engineering, it's not that the the the company that I worked for in Lincolnshire were absolutely fantastic. That the the plant was awesome, the the kind of setup was awesome, and and I learned so much technical drawing, trigonometry, do you know what I mean, stuff like this, and I was really good at it, and I was really into it. And I was really, really grateful to them for giving me the chance. And and um, but in London it just wasn't, and I think really my my friends as well got jobs in like fashion stores and stuff like that, so they were being all cool, yeah. And there I am, like, yeah, I'm like, you know, I'm having not having any fun with this, right? Right, right. So what was the change? So the so my sort of I I would say my inspiration for hospitality, as cliche as it sounds, was in 1986 when I saw the film Cocktail with Tom Cruising. And and actually I didn't see the whole film because I was young and it was a uh 15 certificate, but my dad said, Come and watch the bartending bit and where they they flare, you know. And I looked at that and I just thought, that's really cool. That is really cool, you know. That whole standing behind the bar, entertaining, throwing bottles around, which is super dangerous. You know, it was the it was I've never it was it was the hippie shake, uh they used the hippie shake song, and and I just thought there was a moment in me that went, I want to do that. And I remember learning to juggle, teaching myself to juggle and stuff like this, and and it was always chipping away that I wanted to be a bartender, and and that was my that was my thing. I I I ended the engineering. Um I was mowing lawns for about a month, just trying to get money. Yeah, and then I got a job in a pub in the Sussex in Leicester Square in early '97. I wasn't it didn't pay me a lot of money. I was so happy. I was so into it, it was awesome.

SPEAKER_00 20:04

But were you happy because it involved people, or it was because you know you were finally almost living out that dream, if you like?

SPEAKER_02 20:13

It I think it's because it involved a lot of people, it was super busy. I was finally working in the west end of London, you know, I felt like I was doing something cool. Um, I found the coordination of being a bartender relatively easy. I I completely thrived off the attention that you get as a bartender, where you know, you they can't get any, it's not like being a waiter, you know, like they can't get anything unless you you give it to them. So there's so much banter, you know, and and again, I was only, yeah, I was only 20, but I loved it. I absolutely loved it.

SPEAKER_00 20:46

But I think it teaches you a lot about people, yes, as well. 100% from a service point of view, and also uh I don't know. When when I when I first started working in pubs, I just remember, yeah, the attention was cool, but also dealing with all things that happened with alcohol, people who were learning, people who were impatient, uh people who were clicking their fingers, they were my favorite, by the way, people clicking their fingers. I would serve them half an hour later. Yeah, you know, it was like that. Um, but also then you enter the world of serving food, understanding, even if it's just basic pub food. Yeah, you know. So how long were you in that pub for?

SPEAKER_02 21:33

I was in that pub for I can't believe I'm telling these stories. I was I I was in that pub for about five weeks and then I got sacked. But but again, what happened?

SPEAKER_00 21:46

I came to work drunk.

SPEAKER_02 21:49

Ah, okay, but it's normal but not normal, yeah, if you know what I mean. But so so the thing so so the thing is I came to I came to work drunk, they walked in, they just went, No, you know, no, go away. Okay and and uh And I was like, okay, fair enough. But the thing was, was that it had got me. I was like, yeah, I want to do this. Okay, this is what I want to do. So you were hooked. I was hooked. I was like, yeah. And the next thing that happened was I was looking through the evening newspaper, which in in the UK back in the mid-90s in London, I can't remember what newspaper it was, but that was where hospitality jobs were listed. And I was like, I want to be a bartender. And then in there was uh advertisement for the Rainforest Cafe that um was going to open in June 97, and I applied for a bartender. They had a huge open interview process, and uh I didn't get bartender because I didn't have a lot of experience. They wanted TGI Fridays and hard rock and stuff like that. But they I was one of I think I was one of three people out of 200 that was hired with zero experience being a waiter, and they gave me a job as a waiter.

SPEAKER_00 22:46

Yeah, but that was because obviously the way you came across you loved hospitality.

SPEAKER_02 22:53

So that that that was because of uh uh honestly, this is a sad funny story, but it's uh uh his name is Roberto, he's Italian, and I owe my entire career to this man. Do you know what I mean? Because they held a big open interview. So you walked in, tons of chairs, this and that, sit next to each other, and there was a very small stage, and then they gave everyone this piece of paper, and it said, most embarrassing moment, favorite song, you know, this and that. And then they but you had to say all this in front of people? Yes. So what what happened was they they said, right, you and the person next to you come up to the stage, and I was sitting next to you. I didn't know about this guy before, didn't know anybody. Do you know what I mean? And then you had to give your paper to somebody else's and vice versa, and then you had to stand up on stage with a mic in front of a microphone, and then read out about the other person. And so what it was, it was like it was a personality test, it was a confidence test. It was like, how are you gonna perform in front of customers? Because the American theme restaurants of the late 90s were all about show, it was all about American service, which is loud and in your face, and I'm there, you know. And uh he didn't write anything on there, you know, and I I gave as much content as possible. I was like, this is really messed up. I'm gonna give you as much as you need. And he didn't write anything, he was quite miserable. He was a good friend of mine afterwards, but but so I I I got slightly, I suppose, annoyed with that, and I stood up on stage and I just ripped into him for being Italian, um, you know, Itali Italy as a football team, you know, stuff like this, his appearance. And then I went through two more interviews and they just said, Yeah, we'll take a chance on you, because I think they could see my ability to talk, you know, as I alluded to possibly earlier on.

SPEAKER_00 24:38

I think that's quite an interesting way to carry out an interview process, though, isn't it? Because if you think about it, you're absolutely right. I mean, as a waiter, barman, whatever, you're still performing in a restaurant, whatever context that that might be, but also quite scary if they don't tell you that in the beginning. Yes, incredibly unnerving.

SPEAKER_02 24:57

How how many so you said 300 people? 200. So I went on to find out that at 200 people, I was one of three people that were hired without any previous experience. Um, which which funny enough, at the time I'm like, yeah, it's me, you know, like this. Now I'm had my career. You look back at it and you think, Oh my god, like they really took a risk, you know.

SPEAKER_00 25:18

Yeah, and also it was a pre-opening. It's pre-opening, yeah. And quite a big one, massive one, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:24

Yeah, the rate, because at that time, you know, Planet Hollywood was was was pretty big, hard rock was big, but there was such a that was like the thing that was happening in London. You had Fashion Cafe, you had Sports Cafe, you had Rainforest Cafe, you had Planet. So that was when that theme restaurant thing was booming. Um, which funny enough, you look back at it now and sort of people sort of laugh at it, but at the time it was huge.

SPEAKER_00 25:47

But that's the thing, at the time it was huge.

SPEAKER_02 25:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:50

So within that experience, you started off as a waiter.

SPEAKER_02 25:52

I did.

SPEAKER_00 25:53

Right. How big was the menu? God, huge.

SPEAKER_02 25:57

I mean, it was so it's funny, it it was it was a really, really big menu. I mean, it was one of those big plastic things, folds out and then folds out, and then you had you must have had, I don't know, 12, 15 starters, 30 main courses, all of different stuff, desserts, you had to do the daily special. But of course, because of the American training, you had we had two weeks of classroom training, you had to pass, you you really had to study, and I actually really committed to it, you know, which was weird if you think about my performance at school. I was just really into being in the environment.

SPEAKER_00 26:31

But I think what's also quite cool is that you had you learned the lessons from the Sussex, right? So the pub, you obviously didn't want to go back into the tunnels, no, right? I like the way you say the tunnels, you know, yeah, they want to go back down the tunnels because it's it's miserable, you know. You you're you're doing that sort of commute, so on and so forth, and that's no disrespect to the job, but you wanted to be in an incredible, vibrant atmosphere, a hundred percent, right? Yeah, so when it came to the actual opening day, yeah, how was that?

SPEAKER_02 27:03

It's great. I mean, they I think the thing I I look back at and I think the thing that I really took to was that as I said, I came out of school and went straight to work. When you do like an apprenticeship and you go to university and college and everything, you only go one day a week, you don't really make friends. You you drop in for a day, you drop out. So you you know, there's no I had no social scene in the college I was actually in. I was going there, I was doing this this this day, and I was coming back. And I think that my early days in the Rainforest Cafe was this kind of um college years, you know, everywhere all over the world, everyone's like young, I was really young, you know, but it was almost like college, but we were all making a lot of money because it opened and it was a raging success. That first year was just mental.

SPEAKER_00 27:55

But also, was it the first time that you sort of had major tips as a waiter? Yes.

SPEAKER_02 28:01

Yeah, I mean, we we so there's no minimum wage, it was like two pounds, three pence per hour. Gosh, and then it was all tips, and and and the thing, the thing that I learned very, very quickly when it when it came to I suppose tipping, um, which I've tried to pass on to to sort of many people as I've gone on to be a trainer and everything and and stuff like this. I think that I realised very, very quickly that tipping is not a given, and nor should you think it to be. And people tip you when they actually think you've got their best um intentions at heart, which was kind of a a turning point for me being a waiter, where I suppose you know, in restaurants, say you have a section, you've got four tables, and they're all close together. You had to reel off this spiel, you know. Uh I had to say, what do I have to say? I used to have to say, um, hi, welcome to the Rainforest Cafe. My name's Sam, I'll be your safari guide, you know, right. Would you like to hear today's specials, you know, or like this. And you've actually spoke for maybe 30 30 seconds before they even answer. And in the West End of London, I would say it, and then people would go, like, eh, eh, you have a beggar? You know, like this. Right, right. And then I realized that like I'm I'm too busy giving this delivery to actually wait to understand what who the guest is.

SPEAKER_01 29:30

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 29:30

And then, of course, I also realized that um people could hear me, you know, saying the same stuff over and over again. And I think a another sort of thing sort of springs to mind, sorry, which is when when people ask you what do you recommend, um, I'll probably get a lot of trouble saying this. But the thing is, is that I remember um it was very early in my career, I had a table of six, and the woman turned around and she said, What do you recommend? And the guy turned around and he said, He works here, he's gonna say everything's good. It's a true story, right? And I and I was like, um, and then I got annoyed with him. Do you know what I mean? Because I was like, Well, what where do you go from where do you go from there?

SPEAKER_00 30:10

And so And this guy was from a separate table or something. He was on the table, he was on the same table. But he was British, so all cynical.

SPEAKER_02 30:16

Do you know what I mean? So cynical Brits, do you know what I mean? Don't ask him what he recommends, he's gonna say everything's good. And so I then threw it back at him and took a massive leap of faith, and I just turned around and I said, Well, no, to be honest with you, no, I I I do work here, but no, I I don't think everything's good. And then they looked, yeah, right? And they looked and they looked up and they went, What do you mean? And I went, Look, I don't like this one, this one, this one, and this one because I don't like I'm not a big fan of cheese, so I was like, I don't like those. I said, honestly, this one and this one, a lot of people order it, but when I clear it away, they've hardly eaten it, you know. And the lady said, I was gonna have that. Thank you. She said, What do you reckon? I said, Well, listen, look, look at where I said, This is good. There's a rib, steak, burger. So he's not gonna go wrong with this stuff, and that's where it switched into me giving them my honest opinion. And then they ordered, they had a great time, and they tipped me. Right. And and that's when I realized that tell the guests the truth, you know, if you want to get tipped, you know, and and I changed my entire way of giving service, which was to become very individual to each guest and try and work out what do they really, really want, you know. And then I I I was one of the highest earners, and it really changed changed the way that I saw the industry.

SPEAKER_00 31:29

Do you know what's quite funny is what when you when you talk about tips and when you say um the guests can read whether you're being sincere or not, right? Yeah, and when you are being sincere and they understand that you're working for them and trying to make them as happy as possible in the best possible way, 100% they will tip you because they want to. But on the other side of that, I've worked with people who only work for tips and you can see how manipulative they try to be to the guest, and then the guest feels it and they almost don't want to pay purely because this waiter or waitress has has just is only trying to do everything possible to work the tips, and it's quite unpleasant at times.

SPEAKER_02 32:15

And I think that the the problem is that if you're working for tips, you can't predict what's gonna happen. You don't know what tables are gonna come in, you don't know who's gonna be in your section, you don't know, you don't know any of this. But I've worked with so many people when I was a waiter and and in my early days in management where they come into work and they actually are already stressed, and they're saying, I need to make like 50 pounds in tips tonight. And within the first two hours, they're nowhere near where they want to be, and now they're starting to get annoyed, but that affects their service, so they get more and more frustrated throughout the shift, and the service is getting worse and worse and worse, hence you're not getting tipped. And so, me and and I suppose if I sort of take a step back, me and some of the top earners that I've ever worked with never had that thought, never had the thought, give the service, make it personal. It you know, I worked in Planet Hollywood for a long time after Rainforest, but in an environment like that, you are allowed to pretty much do and say what you want. Some of the stuff I've said to guests is like as a waiter, is is is crazy, you know. But it's the fact you are allowed to really express yourself and be entertaining, and then of course they they really do respond, they tip you because they have you know, you have to make sure that you're not some sort of clown that's interfering with their night. But if you can, if you can make their night more special, you know, a little bit of fun, little bit of banter, connect with them just a little bit. If um if a family has uh kids, just take the kids away for an hour. Parents will just, you know, entertain the kids, laugh at them, give them a you know this sort of stuff. And and that that's what I think a lot of people did miss. They were there just for the money. But I realized, and I still believe it now, if you focus on, especially in hospitality, if you focus on money, you're not gonna get it. You have to focus on service and atmosphere, and then you get a much better response, I think.

SPEAKER_00 34:23

Tell me about Planet Hollywood. You you you obviously you did this huge pre-opening. Yeah. Sounds like you were quite successful at it. Yeah. And then when did the move come?

SPEAKER_02 34:35

Uh I I I I left the Rainforest Cafe because um I uh I discovered that I discovered that we we were giving a lot of service to sort of I'd call it they they used to call it travel trade. Uh I don't know if you're familiar with the term, it's like huge European groups coming from different countries that come and do sightseeing and everything, and then they would come into the Rainforest Cafe, they have a limited menu, they they take up table space, and then they then they they um then they go.

SPEAKER_00 35:10

And they only have a certain amount to spend per mention and all that kind of stuff.

SPEAKER_02 35:13

And the thing was was that we as as the floor staff we didn't get any service charge or tips from it, so everyone was very frustrated with them. I I actually just looked at it as in like again, like I said earlier on, I'm here to to give service to everybody, so I'll just give it. Some people would would treat them quite poorly, like as their attitude and everything, which I never used to agree with, because I just found it a bit weird. But then there was one day, uh, and it was it was a very contentious issue, you know, we're doing tons of this stuff, and then one day, um, then one day serving a table, and one guy turned and said he wants to tip me, and the other guy said no, they already get tipped. And I was like, What do you no, we don't, and they went, No, no, you don't. I'm like, I've I'm the organizer, I've got the contract, pulled the contract out, and it said that a 10% service charge was included in every price, which we weren't getting, and the Rainfriends Cafe was keeping. Right now, I don't want to sound slanderous or anything, you know, maybe it was a management decision, I don't know, but it was definitely true. And I I just and I found that to be immoral, and I was like, no, I I I can't do this. It it kind of damaged that illusion. I'm that I'm that type of person where I kind of buy into it and I'm all in, and then there's like a jarring moment, and it kind of makes me go, no, this is all and I resigned. And Planet was next door, and I'd I'd gone to work in a I'd gone to work in a coffee shop for a while, and that's when I realized I needed a certain thing from hospitality. I didn't just want to give people, you know, cups of tea. And then I went to Planet and uh and they they hired me straight away. And it was a big big change. Planet was.

SPEAKER_00 36:55

So would you say that was more kind of uh a nightclub-based Planet Hollywood?

SPEAKER_02 37:01

No, it was it was a lot more fun. Um, and again, I had to take six exams to be a waiter. I found that to be very challenging. It for me, it was a step up, and I found it to be a step up. I was, I think I was 23, 22, 23, and I found it to be a step up, and I was like, um they they even said, and I still tell these stories now, and and and they even said there I think there was like six or eight of us in orientation, and they said at the end of the first week, they said, not all of you will be here next week because you won't you won't make the grade. Sounds like the SAS. It was hardcore, yeah. And and the thing was they were right. You turned up, I got through, but you turned up three of them had gone. And it was this really militant training in how you write in your server pad, and how even as a waiter, they're like, Here's all the cocktails, and like you have to know them, and you have to write the spec sheet test, and you have to get 98%. And I'm pacing up and down my bedroom memorising the cocktails over and over again, and they drilled it into you, but then you had such confidence in your product knowledge that your service was so personality driven that you could just and and I've never really experienced training like it ever again.

SPEAKER_00 38:14

That sounds amazing, yeah, in a way, for from a service standard perspective. Uh, and I love how you say militant because I think that's the only way to get service done in a way, if if you wanted to be impeccable, and obviously, um, at that time, how what was the the number of of volume or guests that you were dealing with?

SPEAKER_02 38:33

Um Planet London was yeah, super busy on the weekends. I mean, I don't know the exact figures, but it's a th it was a 335-cover restaurant. Um, I believe it was 235 covers upstairs, and they had the VIP room. Downstairs, there was a cinema inside Planet London in the basement. Um, you would if you did a double shift on Saturday, you're easily turning that restaurant every one hour one hour 15 minutes. One hour fifteen minutes to turn the whole thing over and over again. And I and I know this because when I was a manager at one of my departments was audio visuals, and we had the tapes that played on the screens that looped every every hour and yeah, every hour, 90 minutes, and it's because no one would see the same thing twice because it's turn and burn. You know what I mean? It's hardcore, it was really, really cool.

SPEAKER_00 39:26

And what type of of uh food was also being served there?

SPEAKER_02 39:30

Uh you know, it's a venue like that, it's all experience-led, but very American, very big, steaks, ribs, burgers, um, everything's uh themed beyond belief, you know what I mean? Mocktails called like a bug's life and the little mermaid and everything like that. But the big American cuisine stuff where it's designed, it's designed that you don't finish it. You know, the the American way of of doing food, especially back I mean maybe even more so now given the size of them all, which is uh give them way too much. Uh the menu's designed that you don't have all three courses, you know, it's either start or main or main or dessert because of the size of the portions. Um, so just big, huge plates, colourful, loud, you know, it's it's it's it's that I loved it. I I I really promote that showmanship where give people something where they go, God, look at that.

SPEAKER_00 40:25

Do you know what I mean? And what was your relationship like, you know, as you sort of got into that job? Did you did you want yourself to become more managerial or or did you just want to have a bit more banter or or grow with the company?

SPEAKER_02 40:38

Um I did a year, then I went traveling, I went to South Africa, um, and then I became head bartender of a flare bar. That's where I kind of ticked all the flare boxes. We were doing shows, I was blowing fire and juggling bottles and where was that? That was in Johannesburg. Oh, right, okay. Yeah, that was in Johannesburg as a place called News Cafe. Uh great time. Um, like I say, doing shows two or three times a week, but flaring a lot. And and I would never I don't want to sit here and say I was some sort of impeccable flare bar. I could do it. I was into it. We practiced, you know, fire blowing was good fun behind the bar and set the bar on fire and all this sort of stuff. Um but because I was made head barman, I realized that I kind of liked the responsibility as well, and I kind of liked, you know, a little bit of authority of like writing a rotor and checking, cleaning, you know, like no one likes cleaning, no bartender likes cleaning, it's horrible. Do you know what I mean? But I kind of liked having a little bit more to the job, and then when I came back to London, I went back to Planet and I got I got my job back just through wanting to get a job, and then sort of very quickly went into like the top 10 waiters and then became a trainer and stuff like that. And and that's where I kind of really thought, yeah, this is for me now. I was 26, 25, 26, and I was like, yeah, I want to do this.

SPEAKER_00 42:05

If you could go back to your head when you were in in Johannesburg, and it was your first time abroad working, yeah, and in a managerial or supervisory position, let's say. How was your sort of mentality number one you know, being a foreigner? Number two, sort of uh learning to manage people.

SPEAKER_02 42:33

Well, that is a really good question. Um I think that when you're a head bartender, it's a very unique position because you have to tell everybody what to do, but you can't leave the bar. So when you're a manager, you can walk on the bar, you can go and you can walk off. As a head bartender, you have to look over and say, look, why is your station dirty? Fill up your ice, what's going on with your your juices? And I think human beings have this instant nature, which is if someone tells you to do something, they look at they look at you and they go, Who are you to tell me? So you have to have an impeccable station. At all times. At all times. You have you you in order to, and I I mean, whether it's right or wrong, that's how I viewed it. I have to be the leading example in order to tell these people what to do. So if they look at me and go, Why should I do that? They go, Well, fair enough. Like I might, I might, I might not have liked how he said it or anything like that. Um, but yeah, you you it was a real it's it was leading, really leading by example. And did you you know, was it more banterish than London or was it the same? So London was big, not a lot of regulars. South Africa, lots of regulars. The venue been there for a long time, very palli pally between everybody. So you had to, and of course, I didn't know any difference. So it's like you had to you had to manage them. Like in a in a fine line between you have to do it, but it's about well, I suppose it's about respect, isn't it? It's that if someone respects you, they do as you are. So there's a thing with management, like supervisors when you first sort of cross over. You find out who your friends are, you know, like you you find out, and and a true friend is the one that won't give you any issues, you know. The ones that are not your friends are the ones that instantly go, oh, who do you think you are? You know, it's like that. And then what you realise is is that they just don't like any of this, you know what I mean? And they only liked you when you were fun and you're going out, you know, whatever. And so you do find out very quickly um who your friends are, but also you have to get people's respect. And and like I say, I I kind of think I had the bartender's respect just because I I was trying. I was trying to do a good job, and I and I'd like to think they could see that, and so they tried to do a good job as well. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_00 45:01

Yeah, absolutely. It's I mean when you're young, it's it was a yeah. But then when you when when you go to another major job or major milestone in your life, yeah, is the the mega nightclub and the name which is synonymous with partying all over the world, which is Pasha, right?

SPEAKER_01 45:19

100%.

SPEAKER_00 45:20

Uh now back in the day that nightclub was I think around 1400 people. Yeah. It was Monster. There or there about how did you get into that role?

SPEAKER_02 45:33

So I think that an interesting sort of caveat would be there was a precursor to Pasha, which was Roadhouse. Um and I I would never have been able to have managed Pasha if I hadn't been front of house manager at Roadhouse. And the reason for that was when I went into Pasha, it had been raided uh by the police and it had been shut down a month before I got there for organized crime and um other bits and pieces that happened in Ibiza style nightclubs. And that was in the end of 2008. In 2004, when I became front of house manager of Roadhouse, um there's a very, very unfortunate situation where two months before I got there, um, a customer had been killed on the door. And I I won't go into any of that, but it was a very, very serious thing to be happening in a club that's a rock and roll nightclub, very notorious, super busy. I was super proud to get the job. But we had this court case looming over us. We had to sign NDAs and you had to be very, very careful about what you were doing. And and the reason being is that it it coincided in a moment in in the UK where they changed the licensing laws, where it went from um, you know, if people got drunk and did something bad, it's their fault. I'll give you hundreds of kilas, who cares what you do. They changed it into who gave you the drink, were they acting responsibly? When they brought in the personal license and everything like this. So I suppose in in in one way it was like my job was to eject people from the club without fight starting, which was extremely difficult because the amount of abuse that I suffered, uh standing on the door telling people they couldn't come in. It's where my people skills really sharpened into dealing with something very, very serious, you know. And there were numerous occasions in Roadhouse where I've had to talk guests out, and then just you, you know, Dorman couldn't react, you couldn't, because what was happening that the case was trying to prove that the venue was really irresponsible and the condition the guest was in was how it resulted in what happened. And the the the the case was acquitted, and and it's terrible for the family. It was really, really awful. But the thing that it taught me as just a department manager was nightlife. With the let's say the um it's not all, yeah, it's not hands in the air, it's not it's controlled chaos, and when things go wrong, they can go really wrong, you know what I mean, in a way that doesn't happen in a bar or a restaurant. So so I think that you know, like you say, to answer your question, fast forward into Pasha, I I left SOO Clubs and Bars in in Soho and and I got recommended to Pasha um from the door company, and so I went in there and it was explained to me the situation. And yeah, so from the word go, I'm managing Pasha, but there is a very, very serious court case going on with Westminster Council that that we had to manage.

SPEAKER_00 48:41

Um can I ask Sam in terms of there so there are there are there are two teams that you have to be sort of well, one team is definitely responsible, which is let's say your bar team, front of house team, let's say, but you also have to be quite pally with the bouncers or the door team, especially the head doorman, right? So when you're a newbie, yeah, right, how did you manage to get everyone on side with you in order to make sure that it ran as smoothly as it possibly could? Because it's not an easy one, no.

SPEAKER_02 49:19

So this, yeah, so what happened on my first night at Pasha? Um, and um so so okay, so what happened on my first night at Pasha is that I really didn't know what I was doing. I'd never run a venue of that size or scale. Um, they had this problem, and I remember sitting in the office with the area manager of the security company, and he said to me, um, and I I suppose the thing that's important to understand is that the club doesn't employ the door, they don't work directly on the payroll of the venue. They are a after uh so after what happened with the raid, in order to reopen the terms and conditions from Westminster Council was that the door team has to change and the manager had to change. Right. So it's like so, but the door team were like a subcontractor, if you like. So the the the door team are a subcontractor and they write their own reports and they submit their own reports. So you can't you can't tell them what to do, you know. And so essentially what happened was was that I came in on this first night, and it the the the area manager said to me, you know, what what what do you want out of tonight? And I was like, listen, man, I I knew him a little bit. I said, listen, to be honest with you, I'd like every problem conceivable so I can actually come to terms with what's what's happening here. And that's exactly what happened. That there was so what how I got the door team is a true story, word for word, it's it's it's hectic. But the thing that happened was was that we had we had the raid court case to to think about, and I had to prove that I was taking this very seriously. And uh they had undercover doormen in there trying to spot drug dealers, they had, you know, this was this was the sort of the nature of what was happening. I get a call on the radio. Can I come to the office? And I go inside my office, and there's a guy in there in a wheelchair, okay, and there's two doormen in there, and they said, This guy's been going back and forth to the disabled toilet. We think he might be carrying stuff, you know. And so my first reaction was, you know, and look, you know, life's hard enough, you know what I mean? Like, but then I realized that this is I didn't know anybody. I'm like, this is a moment for me to put like a marker down. And um, and I turned around and I said to him, Um, you know, I'm Sam, I'm the manager, you know, like this. Are you did you no? And I was like, okay, you sure? And he said, yeah. And I said to him, You can tell me. If you tell me, I'll let you go. If we find anything, you're gonna be in a lot of trouble. So he's like, nah, and I said, okay. And uh, and then I looked to him and I'd looked at the doorman, and there was my office chair was there, and I said to him, Get out of the chair, like this, this, and and so he maneuvered himself over and moved his legs over. And inside, I'm like, What are you doing? Do you know what I mean? And then I said to the doorman, I was like, um, you know, and I was being really harsh, I was like, Take take the chair apart, and so they start dismantling it, they opened the velcro pouch at the back. I feel very difficult saying this on camera, but they opened the velcro pouch at the back, they took out a bottle of vodka, you know, I slammed it down on the table and I was like, What's this? And he's like, No, no, no, no, you know, and I'm like, listen, you know, we're all, you know, mates, do you know what I mean? Then the doorman turned around and he said, Oh, I think he's got something on his leg. And it was his, I think, I don't know, I always mispronounce it, cafeteria. Yes. Yes. So I was like, take that off. So he took it off and put it on the table in the office. And then I was like, so you haven't got any, no, no, no. And then then I looked at the doorman and I said, Strip him like that. And at that point, he confessed everything. And he went, no, no, no, no, yeah, okay. I brought it in, I had it, my friends gave it to me. Uh we knew you weren't going to such this sort of thing. And they they um they they uh you know he admitted it, and then I realised being very genuine, and I was like, okay, cool. And then I was like, fine, put yourself back together again. I actually radioed the head bus boy to come in and assist him. Right. And I and I said, Go and enjoy yourself, but tell your friends, you know, you don't muck about in here. And the thing that then happened, first night, the thing that then happened was the doorman went and told people what this new manager's just done. And I went to the front door and the head doorman came up to me, this brilliant guy. His name was Paul Jubri. I had a great time with him, and he looked down at me and went, You don't mess about, do you? And I looked up and I went, No. And that moment was when everyone took me very, very seriously, and I got a lot of respect from that door team instantly. And then we went on and we did clear up the problem, and we we came out the court case, but I could tell a thousand stories about being in a nightclub with Dorman, and you have to, there's a big mutual respect that has to be developed where there's so much trust you have to have with a head doorman, you know. So yeah, it's a very good thing.

SPEAKER_00 54:09

The reason why I'm asking the reason why I'm asking is because I save these stories for people like yourself. Yeah, is that during my college three-year management degree? Yeah, I thought, what is the best possible job I could do to go out with my friends and have a job at the same time? So I became a nightclub doorman. Really? One of the problem with you it's one of the best and worst decisions of my life. Yeah, but it's just interesting because I I get it, like I understand, and also dealing when with in the service industry, because it's still a service industry, a nightclub, whether you like it or not. All of us, as in like the manager, the door, the door team, the waiters, the busboys, whatever, you're there to make sure that everybody has a good time, yes, and you're also there to make sure that you look after them a hundred percent right, and it's a very fine line when you're trying to, and like the same when you're talking about the roadhouse, you're trying to tell people in the best possible way, listen, Chief, not this evening, and you're trying to be really polite and all that kind of stuff, and they're just throwing and hurling the worst possible abuse, and it's bad, and it's bad, right? It's bad, and you still need to be composed, it's not easy. So, so so that's what I'm saying. But uh, you know, it must again that must have apart from the the difficult side of things, that must have taught you a lot of incredible lessons in terms of managing not just people but large venues.

SPEAKER_02 55:44

It is the thing is is that it it is very different from a so restaurant to bar quite similar, those two to a nightclub, totally different. And it's it's where people used to say to me, they would say, Why'd you do this? Do you know what I mean? Because if you're doing a thousand people, I used to say this to the dormant after. Sometimes we have really difficult nights, and and the difficult nights are actually not like big fights or huge accidents, which I've had to deal with. The difficult nights is where it's just non-stop one after the other, little problem, people square up, someone's lost a jacket, they're intoxicated. This and it's as you know from your maybe dormant days, where it's just these little again, it's a very draining. And I would get the door team together after work, we'd have a drink, and I would say, Listen, I'm always going to say this, which is this is where you prove that you're at the top of your game. This is the lion's den for door teams. You want to go stand on a fire exit in a bar in the west end of London and just stand there all night. I don't need you. Here is where you can walk out of your class on yourself as one of the best in in London because of what we deal with. And I also used to say, look, how many people have we dealt with tonight? You know, 20, 25. What percentage is that of the overall crowd that came in? So, yes, we've had a tough night, okay? 25 people have had issues, 975 have had a great time. And the thing about large crowds, and I think that every club manager would attest to this, is that when and this is why I'm such a big fan of still being able to do this and that kind of put your phones away and stop filming everything and actually get into it and let yourself go. Because when when the DJ you came to see plays that tune at that moment, and a thousand people scream at the same time, it's a one-off little moment, and you're like, Yeah, you don't get that in a bar or restaurant. It's an incredible thing.

SPEAKER_00 57:49

Absolutely. And that's the other thing as a manager. That's the other thing I wanted to get to is that you know, you also dealt with some of the top yes celebrities in the world, some of the best DJs in the world. How was it for you to manage those personalities?

SPEAKER_02 58:02

Um, it's it's some, yeah, all the cliches you think are happening are probably happening, and they do happen. There's a couple of big ones that were very deaverish, but then there were moments in it where I was just sort of on occasion, there's one or two where I was like, I can't believe that person's here. Like, you know, essentially, I suppose I didn't own the club, I was like in my club. You know what I mean? There was one night it was um Adamski uh he re-released Killer, and and people that know that tune from the the the 90s rave scene will know how big that that track was. And he re-released it and he came in and played it with uh the guy singing it, and it wasn't Seal, so it wasn't it was it was a different vocalist, but there was part of me where I was like, That's a damski. Do you know what I mean? Playing Killer, yes. So you have lots of moments like that, and and again, I suppose I'd refer to Pash, which is the greatest job I ever had, but only when the venue was not open, yes, you know, great business car to have in London. You you make lots of contacts, you know, there's sort of uh Miami connections and iBefa connections and stuff like that, and it's a brilliant job, absolutely brilliant job.

SPEAKER_00 59:14

If we move to 2002 then, how did you uh sorry, 2015?

SPEAKER_02 59:20

Yeah, tell me about the move to the Middle East. So I I came out of Pasha Um and then uh there was another venue that had got serious licensing issues. At this point, I've become known as a bit of a fixer. So I went, I went, I went into I went into that one, that that had the same situation, raided, shut down, this and that. I was recommended by the authorities to come in because this man, you know, somehow can be trusted to you, rebuild the bridges. And I kind of fell in love with our little venue, and then me, me and a guy there, we sort of bought into it a bit and and turned it into our place. So so for four and a half years, I had my own, let's say, late night bar little club thing um called the pods, uh, and had an amazing time doing that. But that the end that came to an end sort of 20 late 2014, going 2015. And my my friend who had lived out here was like, why don't you come out here? My partner at the time, she was like, Let's go. And it wasn't too difficult to to sort of sign over. I'd got back every penny I put in and tons of memories. And I was like, Yeah, I I don't want to be in the UK anymore. It's nightlife has changed too much. The the it's it's kind of not but maybe I aged out, to be honest with you. I was like 38, and then yeah, started looking for jobs in Dubai, knew a few people here, and funny enough, Jameer came along and um and I didn't know anything about Dubai. Didn't know anything about Jameera, but when I saw 360, I was like, really? You know what I mean? I've I've come out of a basement in in West London doing you know drum and bass and RB nights, and suddenly I'm being offered a rooftop next to Burjil Arab. I was in awe. I don't think there's a word strong enough for being in awe of the venue. I was like, yeah, unbelievable. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:17

But when you got the job, and and you know, it was a a very it was a an iconic venue of 360. Again, you're coming to a place in the world which is completely different. People seem to think in the connotations that there is no alcohol, you know, all of that sort of stuff. But you come in, there's obviously uh different nationalities that you have to deal with, but you would have been used to that, I suppose, in in London and and working in South Africa. New set of rules to deal with, new front-of-house team, new door team to deal with. So how was it?

SPEAKER_02 1:01:56

It was good. I I I think the shock to the system in the beginning working in a hotel coming out of probably what you could refer to as like the most independent side of independent hospitality. So when you know you have your own place, there's you it's your rules, and then you go into Jameera, and the rules are the rules, the rules are the rules, the rules are the rules, and and I think that that was the biggest culture shock was I completely understood corporate, you know. I'd I'd done corporate PLs and I understood all of that, so I kind of got back into that. I was really keen to get back into that side of it, a bit more a lot more professional, a lot more structured. I sort of crave that. Um, I was very glad that it closed at three o'clock in the morning, and and you know, we weren't, you know, 5, 6 a.m. and stuff like this. But definitely the rules, as in sign-offs, purchasing, you know, you come from a world of open the safe, take the money, go buy it, bring a receipt into raise it on the system, it has to be approved by four, five, six people and supply chain and everything like that. But I was just really blown away by Jameh Beach Hotel. I couldn't believe it. I couldn't believe where I was working. 360 was at the end of the yacht uh marina. I'm getting a buggy, I'm driving out past these multimillion dollar yachts. Uh part of my package was to, I got free food, you know, uh free food in a selection of JRG restaurants. I was working for Emma Banks, who I didn't realise what Emma went on to be and was absolutely fantastic, one of the best operators I've ever worked for. We sort of wonderfully bumped heads a couple of times, you know, the southern guy and the northerner. And we had a uh but I I I I loved the whole process, you know. 360 was amazing.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:55

Can I ask, Sam, back then, I mean, compared to now, it sounds like a bit of a silly question, really, but how was the dining landscape back then compared to now? That's a very good question.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:13

I think that I think that everything has expanded quickly. I think that COVID changed a lot in the dining world when it comes to recruitment and everything like this. I think that there was a lot more I don't know how to say it. You know, because I'm I I don't I'm not really like an I'm not really like an industry analyst or anything like that, but I think there was a lot more attention to detail back then. And there were some brilliant brands, there were great ideas. Um I just think that the the way that things have grown, it's like you see a lot of coming and going. You know, this venue opens 18 months later, it's gone. You know, so I don't know. I I think there's I I suppose in a positive way, I think there's some fantastic locations now. West Beach, um, obviously sushi sambra, it's like I come from 360s. Like the minute I saw Sushi Sambra, I was like, yeah, you know, that is a proper, that is an iconic location. Um so I think that location-wise, there's some fantastic places. I think sort of I suppose brand and sticking power, I think is is difficult. I think you know, places become very popular quite quickly, then they can become as unpopular as quickly as they become popular.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:40

Can I ask, do you think that brunches are as popular now as they were back then?

SPEAKER_02 1:05:49

No, I think back then they were a massive event. When I first came here, I didn't come from a brunch culture, um, but they were a Huge event like brunch was a real thing, you know. Where are you going? Have you been to this one? Have you been to that huge sense of occasion with brunches? You know what I mean? The way that the food's packaged and the entertainment's packaged, and you know, you're going here, now we're going there, and and and now it's uh brunch, yes, you know. So I think I think, yeah, I think it's lost its pizzazz. Pizzazz, yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:27

Yeah, I think so. I mean, I I do I do agree with you. I think it used to be this this wild kind of monster in a way, and and people would I mean lots of venues throughout the city would try and really outdo each other in the best possible way, the biggest this, the best that, or you know, all of that kind of thing. But um, it seems to have really fizzled down. But and again and again, I don't know if that's a that's a good thing or a bad thing, but it does when when people say, Oh, do you want to come to brunch? It's not like a big deal anymore, it's very just like super casual almost, you know.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:01

Well, I think that you you know you you you can't lose the sense of occasion. That's one of the biggest things for me is that you know, anything in a restaurant or a bar or a club, even if it's Monday lunch, it's an event. Do you know what I mean? It's like I've I sort of say to people the number one commodity that that we sell in hospitality is escapism. We are selling, but to truly understand the nature of escapism is um uh so I I go to work, I have my 9 a.m. to midday, and then I go for lunch. It's escapism. I don't have to think about work, I'm not under any pressure, I can sit with my work colleagues or on my own or whatever, and I get away from it. Then I go back to work and I work. So you do this, and then you might go after work drinks, escapism, weekend, escapism, you know. And in Dubai, being one of the biggest holiday destinations in the world, the ultimate escapism is everyone comes on holiday. And I think that you must never lose that, you know. And I'm not saying anywhere I've ever operated or run has been able to achieve that every time, but it's like people that have worked with me or or or been under my sort of lead. I always used to say that, you know, if you're at the coffee counter, it's not just the coffee, you know what I mean? You you they need it quickly. Do you know what I mean? Because they've come, they don't have time, I might have 10 minutes, I've come out the office for a coffee break, you know. I need it because I have to, you know, because people get very stressed. You see what I mean? And so when it comes to brunches, it's like I think cheap brunches came along and two for ones and and aggregators and stuff like that. And I think that it it I'm not saying it devalued brunch, but I think it devalued the sense of occasion.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:50

Oh, I agree. Look, 100%. Uh so if we if we take it back to to when it was the the big deal, yeah. It was originally on a Friday when when the weekend was a Friday, Saturday, right? And uh it was originally during the day, so it would start perhaps 12, some 11:30, and it would go on for four hours, and then you have the after brunch packages or whatever it may be. Now there seem uh and then throughout the years, I I certainly saw you know a brunch on a Monday, and then it just moved and evolved, and then you had the night brunch very famous ladies' night on a Tuesday, yeah. You know, so then that was another one where it was just the city was you know full of ladies wanting to go out, so on and so forth. So I I think it did those things did devalue that sense of occasion, but on your other point is that that escapism, whether it's just a coffee or a three-star Michelin meal, yeah, I think you're absolutely right, and you hit the nail on the head. Hospitality must offer that. Even when you go to the cinema, right? Yeah, and you're having your popcorn or your nachos or whatever, you're you're that you're you're going away to escape for a couple of hours. Yeah, and it is a sense of occasion. I think that is a really good thing to say. But then what when it comes to you know this point in time now, throughout those 10 years, you've had different and quite senior managerial positions within hospitality, front of house, strategic, so on and so forth, but you now have your very own business, which some people would say it's foolish, but or or very brave. But why did you decide to then you know take the leap of faith and take all of that incredible extensive knowledge that you have to then put it into your company?

SPEAKER_02 1:10:45

Um I I I suppose I think that I'd reached a point in my career where I don't know. I I I I wanted to work for myself. Uh I had that venue back in the UK for I think it was four and a half years. Um, you know, there was a big sense of working for yourself then. Um I got made redundant in COVID, um, like many other people in in the hospitality sector. So I wanted sort of you you kind of forced into thinking, what am I gonna do? I mean, the level of panic is uh unbelievable back then. But um, you know, kind of became quite independent sort of then, um, which is when the the the canary club thing sort of came about. But then um then after Canary Club again, I sort of tried again, you know what I mean? And I think that I think that my biggest sort of I'd say failing in in the first, let's say, two attempts was I didn't understand the pain you must go through, you know, which is and then I sort of sort of came to the end of my time in Media One, and and I actually I I actually left because of um I won't mention but the other thing that I do that you know because you came on it, do you know what I mean? But um I left to really explore that and and also to do consultancy, but it was it it was like when when I left, somebody said to me, You're gonna open your own restaurant, and I was like, no, I was like, not a chance, because of the things I've just mentioned and how difficult it can be, and and everything. But I really came out of it with a sense of if I wanted to do consultancy, like I wanted to help everyone improve. I think that, and it's not a uh a shameless plug on a great podcast for my company, but it's a genuine thing, which is like I go around, we all do it, but you you go around to different places, and I just think that when I look back at the Planet Hollywood days of military training and stuff like that, it's not there. And it's not, and it's not, and the thing is is that it's got nothing to do with the demographic of staff. It hasn't. There's a little bit of that. The thing is, if you don't here's what I think people miss. If and hotels miss this, and I haven't got a problem in saying it, because they because it's true, which is you hire people from a certain demographic of the world. We know as we live in we live in Dubai, so it's a big Asian community of staff, okay. Now, there's a big disconnect because a lot of the people right at the very top are Western, okay? And they have their restaurants, they're very passionate about their restaurants, and they're great people. But they come in and they get served, and they're like, why doesn't that waiter say, Welcome to this place, it's from this, you know. And it's like, do you, and I voiced these concerns, I said, Do you realize that if you take a step back, in a hotel where these people come from, you know, the number one probably most and what their packages are and and how they send money back home and how things are very, very serious for them. It's it's not the same as, you know, like the Westerners having two years in Dubai, you know, like this. A lot of people are sending money back home, they're supporting their entire family, they're putting kids through school, they are paying a lot of medical bills, and when you actually sit and talk to some of the staff, you're like, wow, like there's a lot going on, you know, behind the scenes for you. Also, how do you know how to give this service if you've never received it? So they don't come from going out every week. I went to my first restaurant with, like I said, my parents were eight years old, and then you're going out bars and clubs and everything from 14, 15, 16 years old onwards. So I knew what bartender I wanted to be because you're going out into Soho after work and being served by these great characters, and you're like, I want to be like that. Do you know what I mean? And really, a lot of staff, their their kind of most consistent restaurant experience is probably the staff canteen. And I've said this, and people then go, No, that's actually true. Because then they get on a bus and they go back to accommodation, and the accommodations are not great, you know, they're not, they're not, and it's true, you know. Um, and so how do they give this amazing personality-driven service? The thing is, you just have to slow down the training. Good training is understanding what you're saying and who you're saying it to. Do you know what I mean? And so, with what I'm trying to do or do in my company is I I want to try and get that message across. You know, it's like atmosphere, lighting, music levels. I mean, how many events or nights do you go into a restaurant where the music's all the same in the background, or suddenly they it's like a brunch where they suddenly just turn the music up, or the DJ just goes like that. How are you supposed to relax and have a good time when the music's just pounding in your ear? But it's, I don't know, three o'clock in the afternoon, nobody wants to dance yet. So, for me, there's a big element with me, and and what I I'd like to do anyway, which is helping people look at the basics. Because again, all venues are in hotels here. How does a hotel keep their venue instead of leasing it out? Because there's always a lot of problems that can go with that, and just help people improve. I think that's the biggest thing.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:18

What's the name of the company?

SPEAKER_02 1:16:20

The light up group. How did you come up with that name? Um, I am a massive prodigy fan, and they have a track called Light Up the Sky, and I just thought I'm gonna call it the Light Up Group. That was it.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:34

So, when you were building the the base of the company or the framework of the company. This season of the Chef JKP podcast is brought to you by Valrona, the French chocolate house that's been inspiring chefs and creators for over a century. Valrona isn't just chocolate, it's perfectly crafted from bean to coverture. Every flavour, aroma and texture is shaped with precision, passion and purpose. Whether you're baking, tasting or simply indulging, Valrona's approach is simple. Extraordinary ingredients treated with extraordinary care. Valrona elevates every experience. For more information, head over to valrona.com forward slash Valrona, Middle East, Africa and India. Now back to the episode. What is it more about would you call it more gastronomy? Is it more front of house? Uh you know, how can you really help all of these 18,000 venues that we have in Dubai? Because the reason why I am I'm I'm asking is because there are, for example, I'll I'll give you a culinary perspective, first of all. We had Boyon Brian Franson on the show, and he is the uh the only chef on the planet at the moment with three venues that holds three Michelin stars in each venue, right? So it's quite historic. And when I asked him, and one of the biggest lessons he had was from one of his early partners or early investors, uh and he said that if somebody steps out of line within your kitchen or is not trained correctly, it is 110% all your fault. Yeah. So if I take that theory specifically over to service, which is one of the biggest bugbears I think a lot of people have here, because of the exact situation that you have just mentioned, in my opinion, that is the key thing that we have to focus on in the city and beyond is service. Because with the food, you can semi-get away with it, right? Yeah, but for me, the superstars of the show is always the service team and front of house in a way because if you're able to read the guest, if you're able to provide not great amazing service, but just good standard of service, you've really won a lot of things over. Yeah. But what I what I and I'm the same as you what I tend to find is that you have different venues throughout the country who hype themselves up, and the PR has hyped themselves up to be like, yeah, this is the best, where and then you go with a huge expectation only to be let down by the hostess saying, What do you want? Yeah, and it starts like that, right? So for me, I think it's a real key thing to have somebody like yourself that comes in and analyzes not just the service but also the atmosphere, the ambience, yeah, the lights, the music. So what what would you say are the sort of top five things that most venues get wrong when when you when you look whether whether it's a cafe, a restaurant, or hotel, what what how can we improve this ambience at the very top because the thing with ambiences is um I I had this drilled into me and um and the thing is is that it's it's so what are you trying to achieve?

SPEAKER_02 1:20:39

This is the thing, right? The first question with ambience is what are you trying to achieve? Okay, and it's surprising how many people can't answer it, you know. So that's so true, no? Yeah, what are you trying to achieve? So it's like when it comes to setting an atmosphere, so what atmosphere do you want? Do you know do you actually know? So, you know, how do you want the guests to feel? So it's not it's not about how do you want your venue to look, it's how do you want a guest to feel? So why are the guests coming? So for instance, when it comes to lighting, it's a really good example. When it comes to lighting, now um uh so when you go into a nightclub and it's first they first open the doors, you're the first customers that turn up. It's pitch black, full of smoke. And why is that? It's because it's because uh no one will dance if they think everyone can see them. You know what I mean? So fill the place full of smoke, everyone can barely see their friends, they'll start, they'll start moving. It's it's facts, right? Then the dance floor fills up, and the smoke sort of gets less and less because now the human mind is going, everyone's dancing, I'll dance. Plus, also I'm kind of ready to dance, you know what I mean? Yeah, and then and then off they go, and it turns into lights and lasers and this kind of thing else. Okay, so you go into a restaurant, and let's say you go on a date, okay? So what do you want to do to somebody, a couple that's on a date? So you want to create intimacy. So what you want to do is you want to lower the lights, okay, so they start to feel that no that no one can create the the privacy, yeah. And then you want to use the music, right, to push them closer together, you know. So if the music is too low, people will sit back in their chairs and then they won't talk, you know. But turn the music up just to the point, this is a fine art, and I I really have this in my head. All anybody that's ever been around me at work knows that all I'm ever going on about is volume, lights and volume, lights and volume, lights and volume. And the thing is, is that you you're turning the music up. So for instance, you and I would now subconsciously think, I don't know if they can hear me, so you lean forwards, right? And you're pushing people together. You know, a great way to actually understand this is go to in your restaurant, go to uh where one of the speakers is and stand there and think to yourself, can I hear the music and the guests at the same volume? If I can, you're fine. If the music's too loud, turn it down a bit. If the guests are too loud, turn it up a bit, because the more guests that come in, the more they absorb the noise. And you are constantly trying to create in a restaurant a level of intimacy with your lighting. So, so again, in in hotels, because hotel designers think there must be a light in the ceiling above every table so they can look at the menu. This is why hotel venues are normally brighter and they don't have dynamic dimmer settings. Independent places have got lots of dimmer settings, and that's why I mean I went to Eleven Woodfire um two nights ago. Incredible, but had to hold the menu under the the table lamp. Um, but the the setting was just spot on, you know, and that's the thing I think a lot of people get wrong. They don't realize that it's a forever-changing thing. If you have lots of big natural uh windows and everything, and the sun's going down, you have to drop the lights down with it. And and you don't want the glaring light bulbs because it's making people you want to make them feel comfortable to relax, to talk, to engage, and and you do the same with the music.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:16

Do you know, Sam? I think that is I I've never thought about it before, right? But um what is so key and I and I said this before is that there's a habit within the UAE for owners and to spend a huge amount of money on fit out, right? Huge, yeah, right? Have the flashes this and marble and da la la la la la. Which is all fine and good, right? But at the end of the day, everything is about the guest and how you make them feel. It's not about the Instagram and showing how amazing the marble is, in my opinion, right? I completely agree with you. All of that is secondary, it should be you know, a restaurant, again, escapism, you're making them feel that they're gonna escape for for for for you know two hours or whatever it may be. The waiter should make them feel amazing, the place should make them feel amazing, the ambulance, and also let's not forget nowadays especially so Raymond Blanc, true story, he said 90% of the choices where couples go to restaurants is made by the woman because if she feels safe and she likes the place, she will go there, but if she feels threatened or the lighting is really bad because she can't take a nice picture of herself or you, whatever, then she's not gonna come back. So it's all of those things that you have to throw into that recipe to make it amazing. 100%, but that specific point that you mentioned about the feeling. I don't think many, I mean not gonna say any, but I don't think many owners ask themselves that. Yeah, how do you want the guests to feel? And even architects of the restaurant they're not they don't care about that, they just want it to be nice and plush and this and that, you know? It's it's a real key thing, but that's what I'm saying. It must be quite uh interesting for you to come in and give a completely fresh angle in terms of you because you're almost trying to restaurant engineer, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:31

I mean it's it's where most of the time people don't understand the problem that they have, and it's probably not as severe as they think it is. It is just simply you only know what you know. Okay, true. Now, the things that I uh focused on when I became a manager was um that's a good way of putting it. It's like so people say, you know, what is management? Well, quite frankly, management is when you go from being held responsible from what you're doing to being held responsible from what other people are doing.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:08

Right.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:08

So you're a bartender, fair enough. So as a bartender, you ask me for a drink, I make it, I give it to you. You're a bar manager, they don't are you don't make any drinks, but now you've what happened to that drink? That drink that you know James made. Yeah. So now I've got to get you to make that drink to a standard that I am going to be held accountable for. And I think that it's it's it's about sort of getting into people's heads and it's about telling them and making them take accountability and responsibility for what they're doing. The same thing comes with trying to understand all the different fractions that people have when it comes to putting a restaurant together. So when you talk about designers, and you've got to understand that the designer, how do I say this really respectfully to designers I know? They they do care about the guest, but it's not their number one practice. Priority. Priority. But this is where this is where the amount of things that need to come together in order to create that magic venue. And when a venue gets it right, as you will know yourself, it's it's awesome. And I think that when, like I say, when when I've consulted for people, when I've had these conversations with people, it's when they they just don't have that little bit of knowledge about that one little thing. A lot of it's management, a lot of it's management training, a lot of it is trying to understand the different roles that people are contributing and what that really means, and trying to get them to be held accountable for it, if that makes sense. It's where, again, like I said earlier on, if you're in a hotel, the amount of things I don't know about hotels is uh there's so you know, but hotel people are not specifically F and B and hospitality driven. I think a stumbling block is when they claim to be, you know, and that's where egos come in. You know what I mean? And it's where if people can admit I don't know this, you know, and it's not a problem that you do. I think the problem with consultants is they, I suppose, you know, in so many ways you have to be you have to be sort of careful that you know, um, you're not an arsonist disguised as a fireman. True. Do you know what I mean? Which is I think some consultants come in and it's like a mechanic opening a bonnet where they go, all of this is terrible. And it's it's like consultancy needs to come in, do its job and leave, yeah. And and not invent the next reason to stay, you know. And and I suppose, you know, I don't know, I don't know if I went off on a massive tangent there, but it's like I I just think the simplicity is that people don't know what they're doing wrong, and you hire a consultant to tell you and teach and train and leave, yeah, you know, not to sort of hang about and uh and get sort of try to, I don't know, try to invent the next thing to do.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:57

No, absolutely. But then when when you typically come in, so let's say there's a theoretical scenario, right? That um I'm gonna hire you. I have some issues within my restaurant, but I I need some a fresh pair of eyes. So let's say I've got an 80 seater restaurant, it's uh 12 to 12, and um it's in DIFC. Yeah, okay. Uh lunch is working okay, uh, evening is working okay. I'd like you to come in and have a look. Uh easy menu. So all a la carte, there's no tasting menu here, none of that rubbish. You said that, mate. You know, so so what are the sort of first few things you take into consideration when when you're gonna go into a venue?

SPEAKER_02 1:30:49

So uh I do an audit, 205 points on an audit sheet that does a complete top to bottom of the entire so it's it's a mass inspection. Brilliant takes about it, takes about six hours. You start outside, so you know, you start outside and you just it's everything, and and and it's actually a blueprint from a previous company that I just thought was absolutely fantastic. And and you just sort of go in and you go, right, arrival experience, and it's it's literally almost step by step. So if it was a hotel, it's like, how did I get there? How was the traffic? Where did I park? Signposting, could I find it easily? You know, valet was the valet tidy. You know, a lot of valet areas have ashtrays. Were they tidy? You know what I mean? I walked in. Could I find the venue? Did the person actually know where to direct me to? And that's down in the lobby, got in the lift. How long did it take me to get from entering the lift to the floor that the venue is on? Blah blah blah, you know, and and you then go through the side stations, and and and so what you end up with is you end up with, and this is why I said earlier on, which is most people don't realise the problems they have are not that big. And it's like I do this, I write you a report, I'll write the answers. It's not um it's not this stupid thing where it's like um I come and do this, and here it is, but if you want me to fix it, do you know what I mean? If you want the answers, that's now 500 times the price. Right. It's just there it is. You know, you pay me to do it, of course, but it's like, there it is, there's my answers, you know what I mean? You know, now, of course, if you actually want to you want me to implement it, you know. Well, now strategically we're looking at something maybe a bit longer, but a lot of places have their own FB managers, they have their own FB directors, and you don't, everyone's got an ego, I've got an ego, everyone's got an ego. You don't want to have your nose put out a joint. It's like, like you said, the the the term that you said earlier on is perfect, which is I need a fresh pair of eyes. What you don't need is you don't need a fresh a fresh pair of eyes that comes in and turns everything on its head, you know? And it's like there you go, that there it is. Take it, implement it, use it, pay me for it, you know what I mean? And then uh I'm gone. But if you want to take it to the next step, then introduce me to people and we go on from there. And then really what you find is a lot of it is lack of knowledge about atmosphere, a lot of it is just training, you know. Do you have too many people don't have training? They have they have like what I refer to as box tick training, you know?

SPEAKER_00 1:33:29

You don't have what's the difference, Sam, for people who may not know.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:34

Is your training working? Does it actually work? Is your venue set up? A very wise man said to me once, your business is always set up to achieve the results that it's getting. You know what I mean? Where you just go, oh, that that cuts deep. Yeah. Where you've got companies that feel it, you've got companies that go, and it's like whatever you're doing is perfect for these results, you know. But for me, the the the difference is there's a difference between training for training's sake and then training to get results. Like I said earlier on, what are you saying? Who are you saying it to? That's training. So if I'm saying it to somebody that's going to take six months longer to understand, um a brilliant example is I come from London. If you were to tell me, I want you to walk up to a table, introduce yourself, and sell the specials, I can do it because of the the the the the way that I as I said earlier on, restaurants and everything from a very early age. You say it's a somebody maybe from the Philippines, India, Sri Lanka, somewhere like that, you actually have to explain why do you introduce yourself? Why you the people are shy. Introducing yourself is not easy, you know, it's it's a big deal. And I don't subscribe to name badges because then you're giving somebody an out. You know what I mean? It's like when you introduce yourself to a table, it's an instant confidence builder because you you say your name to a stranger, you know, there's a psychological thing happening there where you no one likes public speaking, it's horrible, you know what I mean. So you have to explain to people why, and then they they get it. Another sort of good example is a previous place I worked. I I introduced something called the One Training Point. Everyone thought I was mad. Where I was like, I'm tired of the repeat offending in the mystery diner reports, just very inconsistent, same as every every business. And of course, the training manager, she was very good, bless her, but it was all as I refer to as I refer to it, you know, as box tick training. I've held a session, these people were here, they signed their names, it happened. Right. But why are we still having these problems then? So then I kind of pulled rank and I said, okay, do what you're doing, but what I'm gonna tell my division is that starting from today, all you have to do is introduce yourself. From the sequence of service, all you have to do, get everything else wrong. You know what I mean? But you will introduce yourself. And then because all the leaders had their lunches in all the outlets, I said to the leaders, just tell me, are they doing it or not? If they do it, I want you to celebrate it. I want you to just smile and look at them and go, well done. Positive, you know, um affirmations, affirmations, reaffirms, and stuff like that. Right. And it took five weeks to get everybody to simply introduce themselves.

SPEAKER_00 1:36:26

Five weeks.

SPEAKER_02 1:36:27

Five weeks. Now the problem is that it's the first time the results had actually been achieved because I realized that it wasn't the staff that were doing things. You turned over lots of staff, lots of new faces. Oh, nearly lots of new faces all the time. But I realized I took a step back and I was like, it's not them, it's us. We're doing it wrong. So let's change tactics here and let's remove all the bullets out of the gun. There's no big sequence of service, just do the first thing. You can't say no. The staff could not say I am being horrendous by saying just do that. And then you built from there on. And then the funny thing was it caught on. Um, everybody was getting into it, the staff were introducing themselves, the the managers were going, I can't believe it. Like, you know, you'd sit down and come over, hi, my name's, you know, and you're like that. She do it, you go, that's fantastic. And we move to the next thing, which is okay. Now I just want you to serve that venue's special at that moment. So if you went in for lunch, it's the lunchtime special. If you went in for evening, it's the evening deal, you know, and everything like that. And then they did it. It took another four weeks. But we started to actually build their understanding of a sequence of service. And then, funny enough, I think it was six months that you you got all the way through it, but the whole culture had shifted. And it it and and the thing was that it worked. It actually worked that that they understood why we're doing it, it took a lot longer, and we had the results.

SPEAKER_00 1:37:58

Well, congratulations. First of all, I mean, uh but that's the thing is is that you make it sound easy, but it I'm sure it was not an easy thing to achieve. Something so basic as saying your name.

SPEAKER_02 1:38:14

So the thing the thing that was difficult was the the the understanding in the beginning of what I was doing. Because as I've said earlier on, um the consensus was uh the repeat offending. You know, when mystery diner reports come in and they're not good, everyone kicks off on every level. Do you know what I mean? And the thing is, is it's that it's that you so that there's um I suppose I've got to really watch my language, but but it's more like there was like a in in a lot of in a lot of businesses I've worked in, there's a consensus that the person that is supposed to introduce themselves is not doing it because they're lazy or they don't want to, or management's poor, and it's not. It's because you're not training them in the right way. So the patience that I was asking people to have in the beginning was that like I said, they looked to me like, what are you talking about? Like you're just gonna get them to introduce themselves. But it it funny enough, in hospitality, two weeks goes by pretty quick. Yeah, and it started to catch on pretty quickly. And the moment that everyone started to introduce themselves, uh it was like, Yeah, yeah, do it, do your thing. Do you know what I mean? What's coming next? You got the patience, you got the understanding, and yeah, and and like I say, it worked.

SPEAKER_00 1:39:32

But I I would want to say, look, the the the other thing from from from that perspective is what are the easy fixes then if businesses are struggling from a front of house perspective, and I'm not just talking about you know that there's money going down the drain, I'm talking about specifically from a service point of view. Number one, again, it sounds easy, but you know, introducing yourself, yeah. What are the hints and tips could businesses benefit from?

SPEAKER_02 1:40:06

Um getting back to basics, as as cliche as it sounds, it's like are you achieving what you want to achieve? And in Dubai is predominantly a restaurant-led sort of business landscape. There's not a lot of bars, you know, there's a lot of clubs, yeah. It's quite sort of different dynamic. But it's it's just being able to take a step back from yourself, maybe from your let's say your ego, your own insecurities, as let's say the the old, you know, the hotel manager or the general manager or the owner of the venue. And it's are we achieving what we're achieving? And if we're not, why not? And I know this sounds like I'm just chucking out like obvious sound bites, but it's like so instead of coming in and and let's say berating people for for why are we not achieving managers? You know, what's happening? Now, managers will probably come back and say the number one thing that all managers say is that it's recruitment. I need more people. Do you know what I mean? The people I'm getting are not good enough. That old chestnut, yeah. That old chestnut, but maybe that does fall into recruitment. So labour's tough in Dubai, you know. It's like you all wish you could recruit the best person, the most ultimate people. But then it's like, who, what salaries am I paying? Right? Nobody, nobody can just increase their labor. It doesn't happen, right? So, what salaries am I paying? Who's coming through the door? Is our training actually set up for the people we're recruiting? Now, if that there is an issue, you know, how am I measuring the training? Like I said, six exams, or I think it's six, eight exams. The work at Planet Hollywood, half the people are terminated within the first week. Am I doing training like that? Am I actually, do I know if they know it or not? You know, or am I relying on my management team to just say, yeah, no, they're being trained? It's it's it's these are the quick fixes. It's to step back and then go, because people think when they've got problems in their restaurant, mainly driven by revenue and the lack of revenue, they suddenly switch to activations, they suddenly switch to what can we do next to bring people in? What is the Instagrammable moment? Do I go two for one turns into three for one?

SPEAKER_01 1:42:28

Right, right, right.

SPEAKER_02 1:42:28

But then what's the point of bringing people to your venue if when they get there it's not good? And that's where I think a lot of things is missed, which is you know, are you set up for success when the person walks through the door? You know, does the hostess know what they're talking about? Does the way to know not a convoluted sequence of service where you're performing at the highest level? It's like to go to the table. Good evening, welcome to X Place. My name's Sam, I'm gonna look after you. Can I get you some water? Just like a drink, you know. Do I have enough staff to make sure that if it gets busy, then we don't suddenly fall to pieces? Which is another thing I I think happens, you know, relatively badly, is that everything's run shoestring. So again, it's it it it defeats itself, you know. Like when we get busy, we can't handle it. And then, but when you're busy is when word of mouth advertising happens, which is the best form of advertising, but we're so busy we can't everyone walks away and goes, uh because in Dubai you don't get you don't get those chances, yeah, you know. So I think like like you say to us some waffle around the the the the point, the quick fixes is to step back and go, who are we hiring? What are we teaching them? Do they know? And then like I said, lights, music, and food.

SPEAKER_00 1:43:58

Yeah. Of course, I mean, I mean food food, yes, but uh, but but I think you're absolutely right. It's it's it's it is going back to to basics, it is going getting those basic checkpoints across. And also something you said which I love is is is those editing points. You know, I think almost every restaurant should have something like that, you know, from from external partners, whether it's uh a friend or a colleague or or a consultant or whatever. I think those fresh pair of eyes are so key at all times because complacency will kill you. Yes. Especially in such a competitive landscape, yeah, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:44:42

It's uh it's not easy, but ego will kill you quicker. Yeah. Like uh and and I've been there, I and I'm that guy. Like, there's it's not it it it's where who are you to tell me? It's like you know, you're a director of the hardest thing with consultancy is it's like you know, somebody it's almost like, well, actually, I actually employ people and pay them money, and they're supposed to produce the results that you're saying we're not producing, you know, and it's like and it's that dynamic where it's like on a on a PL, why am I paying, you know, I'm such and such, I own this venue. The general managers come from here, the assistant general managers there, the management team are all XYZ. I'm paying them, and I'm not talking about hotels, I'm talking about like the big independents. So I'm paying big money, and everyone's coming to work dressed, looking lovely with their pocket handkerchiefs and their their trap. No, and it's true, and and and and the thing is, and I've you know, and and and they're dressed to impress and they're networking, and they've got their they've got their crowd, and they're they're doing this, that, and everything else. And it's like that does not mean that a fresh pair of eyes is not gonna help. Like, and and what I mean by that is that people get frustrated with people and then they'll get rid of them. And it's like, no, you might have got rid of a really loyal, awesome person with their pocket handkerchief, you know, but that with a really caring, dynamic manager who has just been with you a long time and the venue's cycling, you know, and you're trying to do the let's do the same thing and expect different results, and then nobody, due to internal politics and length of service and everything like that, people might be a little bit worried to step forward and say, Do you think we should play that type of music on that night? Because now that person's gonna go, you know, and it's like everyone maybe just get over yourselves because if you can't admit that you just might need to listen to somebody else's opinion, even if you go no, like another really good thing is to invite somebody to give you their opinion only so you can understand that no, I'm actually right. Do you know what I mean? I'm right in my direction. Someone's come and presented a whole other way of working, and I'm like, no, I don't want to do that, but it gives me confidence, you know. Otherwise, the venues deplete, they get quieter, and then they shut. And you look at the Dubai landscape and you go, that is a real shame because that venue was, I can't swear, but it was bloody awesome. Do you know what I mean? So I think I I think there is that it's it's and and Dubai's big for this. It's the ego, there's a big ego problem where don't tell me how to do my lines, you know.

SPEAKER_00 1:47:20

Yeah, it's it's well, it's your own it's your own worst enemy. Same in kitchens, same kitchens, to be honest. So, Sam, tell me all about Tasty Humans podcast, please.

SPEAKER_02 1:47:32

I didn't think you'd ask me because of course I'm gonna ask you.

SPEAKER_00 1:47:36

We're on a podcast, it's very important. First of all, I appreciate that. I really do. First of all, tell me about the name because I think it's quite cool.

SPEAKER_02 1:47:45

So in Media One Hotel, I was asked if I wanted to start a podcast, and I said, Yeah, like I've been into that, I'd like to do it, talking, you know, I have no problem with that. And I was shown a number of podcasts from other hotels, and I was like, I just sorry, I can't do that. Like, there were suits, slicked black hair, pocket handkerchief, pocket handkerchief. Do you know what I mean? Um sorry, it's all the pocket handkerchief people. I'm gonna caveat that where I worked for a guy once in in Dubai in the first group, and he was absolutely awesome. And I can't mention his name, but if he watches this, he's gonna know exactly it was him. And he said, Always be aware of a man with a pocket handkerchief. And I was like, This guy was really senior, right? And I was like, Why? And he said, he said, any guy that has the time to put a pocket handkerchief in and make it beautiful is not under enough pressure to work like this. So that's where that's where the point that that's where sorry, pocket handkerchief people, but uh I I took it there anyway. Sorry, so so the thing was was that um I looked at it and I was like, I can't do that super scripted, structured thing. There were other hotel podcasts that were like presenting 10 best ways to make a bed, and I was like, I'm not doing any of that, you know. So I wrote a very small list, and it was um, how can I do things completely differently? As you know, you've come on it, which is completely unscripted, unedited. Uh, I don't have any plan, we just go and see what happens. Um and I was gonna call it the humans of hospitality, right? And someone said to me, uh, if you put hospitality in the title, no one's gonna listen to it. Um, it was a very sarcastic, off-the-cuff statement by the guy I was sharing an office with, who's a really good friend of mine. And so Tasty Humans suddenly just got into my head and it just stayed there. And I said it to a few people who thought it was awful, but I just thought, yeah, I just liked that. That gives me scope. Yes, exactly. Anyone can be a tasty human, and it just went from there. And the the logo, um, I did an episode with a guest who who uh was the first. One to come back and say they wanted to do promo photos, and I felt quite uncomfortable about it. I don't really like I did my name's not in the I know you want to stop, but my name's not in the title because I always I I kind of have this thing where I don't kind of want it to be about me per se. I really always want it to be about the guest, and and that's no disrespect to anybody that's you know each their own. But um this guest came in and and they they they wanted they were known for being a loudmouth and everything like this. Um and they said, Why don't we do it where you hand me a megaphone? And and then they brought their photographer and I handed them a megaphone, and the picture is the megaphone and my tattooed arm.

SPEAKER_00 1:50:42

Nice.

SPEAKER_02 1:50:42

And then when I actually decided to really go after this and create a logo and trademark it and do all the official stuff, that's where the logo comes from, which is it's a tattooed arm and a megaphone, because it's kind of me giving you a big mouthpiece, unedited, unscripted, to just say whatever you want and we'll all deal with the fallout.

SPEAKER_00 1:51:02

So, how many uh interviews have you carried out so far?

SPEAKER_02 1:51:07

Um the episode that goes, I don't know when this will be aired, but so episode 100 is the next one that I'm releasing.

SPEAKER_00 1:51:15

Congratulations. Yeah, and how has it been for you, the whole process? I mean, going from one to a hundred. Uh I the the reason why I'm asking is because I don't like to do it, but when I have to, I I listen back to episode number one and then I cringe for about nine years because it was very, very different to to what I'm doing now. So so how have you changed as an interviewer?

SPEAKER_02 1:51:42

I've never listened to any of them. Never? So the the closest I come to listening to them is when uh I prepare to release because at the moment I do it all myself, so I put the episode into opus and it chops off things. That is the closest I get to actually listening to any part of it. In the beginning, I found it very, very difficult to hear my own voice. It was only when I actually moved to Podster did I then realise I actually need to take a picture with the guest. I think the first 50 episodes there's no pictures with me and the guest. I was very I just didn't like it. I was like, well, I don't know. For someone that's just sitting there doing it, I was really like uncomfortable about my face, my voice, and everything like that. Through through opus and everything, it's like I've grown to understand that's my voice, that's me. Funny enough, when I moved to Podster and you've been on my podcast, if you look at when I was in the first studio, my my back is almost to the we sat at a desk and it's like you can't see my face. Right, you see the side of me. Then when I moved here and did that setup that I have, the first episode, I'm like, wow, like that's really me. Just and it was such a shock. Um but I've I've become a lot more what's the right word. I don't listen to it because I I feel I might second guess myself and go, oh, why did you ask that? Why did you say that? And then you go into the next one with too much ringing in your ear. Self-criticism, yes, yes. Because the thing I do is I I just say what's in my head, but I did listen, you know, I've tried, and I just think straight away, why did you say that? Why have you said that?

SPEAKER_00 1:53:33

Do you know what's quite interesting is that we've had a uh quite quite a large television film producer on the show, yeah, and she says the same thing as you whenever she's been on a TV show, whenever she's doing something, or whatever it is, she will not watch it, she will not re-watch again and again because it's the very best it could have been at that time, and and then you just let it go and move on. So I think that's quite interesting. It seemed like a lot of TV film stars they do the same thing, they don't watch their own films, yeah, purely because they will go back and go, Oh, I wish I could have done this and this and this and this. But the other thing that I find quite interesting on your show is that you have it completely unscripted. Yes. Now, for me, what I do is I do a lot of research on my guest to come onto the show just to make sure that I do all the due diligence. But for you, you're telling me earlier on that you don't necessarily do too much digging into the guest. Why is that?

SPEAKER_02 1:54:35

So I think that the greatest example, and you know this guy's winning your podcast, Troy Payne. Fantastic. I cannot tell you how much I love the fact I met Troy through the podcast. Um and but in the I think he's episode 14 or 16, and he won an award. He won Pro Chef. Pro Chef. So I thought, because in the beginning of Tasty Humans, it's very hospitality related. It's DJs and chefs and managers, and and they're all my people like my friends, and I got them to do it. Troy, he'd won that award. So I'm thinking it's all about this award, you know. I I really there's so many awards in Dubai, it's such a big deal. That I wanted to really get into the head of what it was like to go into the competition, to be in the competition, to you know what I mean, and and for me it would have been fascinating, like in the competition, like stresses, pressure, self-doubt, judging, as the type who goes through, who doesn't, you know, all this sort of stuff, you know. Uh these types of competitions, when you watch them on television, it'd be very exciting. And I thought, what a great conversation it would be. But I'd never met him. And then I start with how I start, let's just talk, you know, what goes into and Troy, as you know, just goes off on this philosophical tangent about his father and how he walked to the restaurant and just walked in and said, I'll do anything to work it. And we're going through it, and I'm like, I need to get the award in. I need to, you know, my head's, you know, and I think yes, yes, yes, you know, Louis, I think the award, and then five minutes from the end, I was it almost came out of my mouth. And this little voice said, If you do this now, this has been the most wonderful philosophical deep conversation with Chef Troy. You suddenly shoehorn in. So you won a competition, do you know what I mean? It's it it I think it would devalue everything that he said, and it would just become like this commercial cash grab. And that's when I realized that I don't want to have a destination, I don't want to know too much, you know. So I look at a guest and I kind of look at what they do, and it's like with Tasty Humans, it's it's not what you're doing, it's why you're doing it. And there is a structure, you know. I say to the guests, past, present, future. Um, but I don't want to know too much because I want to discover it, you know, as an audience discovers it.

SPEAKER_01 1:57:02

Right.

SPEAKER_02 1:57:02

And I think that podcasting, I think there's a dangerous element where people use it to advance their own narratives and their own brands. Fair enough. Do you know what I mean? Um, but I certainly don't want to book a studio, sit down with somebody, and then it just turns into everyone's top hits. Do you know what I mean? It's and and the the the bigger the profile of guests that you have on, I'm always on this mission to try and get them to say something they've just never said before. Right. And I think if they don't know what's coming, and I don't really know what's coming either, then the mind latches on to something and then just says it. And so far, some of my guests have said, you know, um, yeah, I actually said things I've never said before. And they're very big podcast um people, right, if that makes sense. Podcast guests. So yeah, that that's my research.

SPEAKER_00 1:57:59

Well, that's quite quite a skill, though, to to be able to get quite vulnerable information out of people without trying to do it, if you know what I mean. Uh it's it it's have have you found that just comes naturally to you?

SPEAKER_02 1:58:15

Without sounding arrogant, yeah, it I it does. And I think that as I alluded to way back, I think that the the the there are things I'm very bad at, you know. Talking is not one of them. Anyone that knows me, I've been referred to as uh a veneered BSer. Do you know what I mean? Um when somebody was very upset with me at work, I've had enough of your veneered, you know, like this. Um I think that I could put my hands up and say, I can be guilty of over-promising because I can be a great salesman, I can tell you all the great things we're gonna do, and then suddenly, oh God, go and actually get this done. Do you know what I mean? But when it comes to the nightlife side of things and the venues I've worked in and the pressure that you're under, and the things you have to say things very quickly to people to get them to either calm down or to relax, or you know, and um, as I've found, brutal honesty is very good to just punch through somebody's emotions where you just look them in the eye and say, Listen, this is what's happening.

SPEAKER_01 1:59:18

Right.

SPEAKER_02 1:59:19

Do you know what I mean? And so when it comes to this format, I do carry in a level of confidence, not that I know what to say, but if it starts to go wonky, I feel I can get myself out of it. Sure. Like there's been some hair-raising moments in some of the episodes.

SPEAKER_00 1:59:36

No, but I have to say, yeah, again, congratulations, because it's uh it's a really beautiful podcast, and I love I love it because it is unstructured in a way, and and you never know what you're going to get. Because as a as a guest, and I can tell you because I listen, is that you think you know what you're gonna get, but then it just goes into a completely different weave, which is brilliant, which is really what you want to do, and you have that great way about you where guests just feel instantly comfortable to be able to tell you things that perhaps they've never spoken of before, which is really cool.

SPEAKER_02 2:00:11

Yeah, and and and one thing is this is the I've done this is the second podcast I've ever done, and the first one uh I think it only ended up as a half an hour episode, and obviously I know you and I know what you're about and I knew how long this this may be, but I had no idea what you were gonna ask me. Do you know what I mean? Like, you didn't send me anything, you know. It it it's and I'm driving here and I'm like, what's he gonna say? Like, and and it's like it's gonna stitch me up. No, but now I'm like, this is how my guests feel, do you know what I mean? It's like I'm gonna I'm gonna come out of here and WhatsApp all my guests and go, I'm really sorry. Massively newfound respect for you.

SPEAKER_00 2:00:52

Well, Chief, we've now come, believe it or not, to the quick fire round of the show. So, first things first, even though you're not a chef, yeah, favorite ingredient, please? Coriander. Coriander! That is a controversial one, isn't it? You know, put coriander on anything, put coriander on it, brilliant. Okay, done deal with it. Now everybody knows spicy or pickled.

SPEAKER_02 2:01:22

Oh spicy but not too crazy. Spicy but don't take my head off. Yeah, fish and chips or sundae roast. Oh, I hate you. Sunday roast. Oh, but only just uh Pasha or Planet Hollywood. Come on, man, it's like picking your children. Um Planet Hollywood.

SPEAKER_00 2:01:47

All right, yeah, yeah, Planet Hollywood, tequila or sambuka, tequila. Oh, love it. I I'm with you. Uh I am not a Sambuka man. I am not a Sambuka man. So, um, as of this moment, can you tell me your top three favourite cuisines to eat?

SPEAKER_02 2:02:09

Um, uh Indian. Yep. Yeah, love it. Um I'm not I'm not sure uh cuisines, that's cooking. I don't know, I don't know. Bend this into my answer, but open fire cooking. Oh yeah, okay. Ah, when we're good. It's so I'd like like wood fired cooking business. Eleven wood fire, eleven wood like like grilling wood fired. Stunning with you. Like barbecue. Yes, sorry, okay. So advanced high spec barbecue, even even like low grade in the desert barbecue, but yeah, barbecue. Okay, sorry, yeah. So that's two. Sorry, fire. Um uh pizza.

SPEAKER_00 2:02:49

Brilliant, pizza all day long. Yeah, done. Uh, who would you say then are your top three food heroes, but they don't necessarily need to be chefs.

SPEAKER_02 2:03:01

Oh, very interesting. Um, Marco Pierre White. The Godfather. The godfather. Sat in a meeting with him once, said the funniest thing I've ever heard. I was like a little schoolboy. I I was lucky enough to be at the meeting. Uh-huh. He said what he said, which I will not repeat. He said what he said, and for the entire meeting, I was like trying to hold in, rupturing with laughter. Brilliant. Absolutely hilarious. And never forget it. He's a legend, man. Um, food heroes. Um, ah, Aurel Young, who is uh barbecue chef that came and we did we opened the blacksmith with him. All right, yeah. Unbelievable barbecue chef, great, great big um American guy. Uh can reach into uh reach into a smoker and grab the meat barehanded because his hands are so battle hard and he doesn't even wear gloves. Superb chef, food amazing. I put so much weight on when when when I was we did our thing together. Um food, oh you've really put me on the spot number three of all my career. Um I would I would probably say okay, not because of who he was, I'd probably say Anthony Bourdain. Now, anyone that knows me are gonna go, why did you say that? You've never said that kind of name. What I what I respected about him was his outside of the the kind of norm, what he went through personally. I don't really know a lot of the dishes he ever created or what he did restaurant-wise, because I don't pay that much attention to it. Yeah, but I think that real creativity comes from a very crazy mind, and I think he had that. Um you know, and and and I think other heroes of mine, they they have that same just say it, yeah. Just you know, yeah. I think I think yeah, put me on the spot. I'd have to say that I think he's someone to be admired. You know what I mean? From all your time in hospitality.

SPEAKER_00 2:05:12

Yeah, gosh. Can you tell me your fav well your funniest either kitchen or restaurant incident that you've seen or been involved in?

SPEAKER_02 2:05:26

So Planet Hollywood, Planet Hollywood, I can't remember, Saturday, full of fam, super busy. Um suddenly there was a lot of commotion over in one of the areas, and uh a mouse had fallen out of the air vent and landed in the fajita skillet on a table. No way, and and you know, that a fajita skillet is really hot, and that mouse, and obviously, if you think about that in restaurant world, yeah, you've got all types of issues to deal with. It wasn't funny at the time. I it wasn't me, I was on shift as a manager, I was on shift, the other manager had to go and deal with it because it was in their section. You know, I went and did a lot of let's say um uh damage control. Do you know what I mean? Like, it's very honest with guests, yes, that's happened. It happened, yes, that's happened. Do you know what I mean? Don't be nice, you you you see comp table, this, yeah. Yeah, but yeah, it was it was afterwards you just kind of go, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:06:46

That is a sticky and tricky situation to deal with. The noise. Yeah, it's ingrained.

SPEAKER_01 2:06:55

Sorry.

SPEAKER_00 2:06:56

Um, I was also going to ask you about your time as a chef for two weeks, but I'm gonna keep that for another episode later down the line. All right, Chief. Just massive failure. There you go. Massive failure. Um, what advice would you give to anyone who is wanting to start their journey within service and hospitality?

SPEAKER_02 2:07:18

Save our industry, please. You know, um, this the advice is it's all about people. It's all about people. Know your food, know your drinks, know your products. But it's all about people. You're you you are a person, you are hiring people, you're gonna recruit people to serve people. What do people want? What do they do? Why are they here? Why did they come out? Is it a couple? Is it mates? Is it a date? Do you know what I mean? It's like break the sequence of service, don't follow the trend. If you can see two people, a man and a woman are at a table and they're talking to each other and they're like this. Why just because their water glass is empty and the sequence of service says you must refill the water? Your hand goes through their faces to grab the water, you've destroyed their little moment. Like it's all about people, and and the other thing, like I say though, is hospitality is losing a game against staying in. I'm really passionate about you know I mean, staying in, being on your phone, being on a tablet, stop it. Like QR codes, I'm so close, but I'm not gonna do that. QR codes go away. Stop forcing people to look at their phones. Yeah, everyone has their notifications on. You look at your phone, ping ping, you're out. Any manager, any of us now, go and look at your restaurant, how many people are sitting there doing this? Before phones, you had to find a reason to talk, you had to think of a conversation, and when you did that, you bonded. That's what that's what it's all about. And I'm such a go to a club, stop filming everything, have a drink and dance, will you? Right. Love it. Sorry, very passionate. Yes, love it. Get into hospitality, it's brilliant. You know what I mean? Uh you have so much fun, you meet so many great people. I'm so glad I did it.

SPEAKER_00 2:09:14

So then that leads me to the final question. Yeah. What advice would you give to 16-year-old Samuel Graham? What was I doing at 16?

SPEAKER_02 2:09:27

I think if you said 14, I would say don't steal the English no. Um What advice would I give to the sixteen my six? I mean when I was sixteen, Jesus. Um probably have more confidence to start your business earlier. Um you know Yeah, that would probably be be the one sound like I say, I don't want it to sound like some sort of cliche. It's more like it's more like when you feel that you when you feel that you care about something deeply, and it's like I can I can 100% say uh without sounding corny or cheesy, that hospitality it it kind of saved me in a way where um you know it I don't know, I don't know what would have happened if I hadn't have made that decision to then suddenly be thrust into working with young people and make so many great connections and have so much fun. I was standing in a in a boiler suit, you know, climbing down holes, and and that was going to be my life. And so it it it's it's like I loved it so much when when you know, and every the the the like I said, it it's like I think maybe I should have made the jump to start my own business earlier or or I don't know when I had the pods, pay more attention, you know, don't just don't be cocky with it, don't be arrogant with it. Like you, you know, just knuckle down and be a bit more humble at that time of my life and not think you're some sort of nightclub guru person. It's like you know, I th I think that'd be the the thing when you get to that point, stay really humble, don't be a cocky so-and-so, because it backfires, you know.

SPEAKER_00 2:11:31

Sam, if anybody wanted to get hold of you through social media, how can they do that? Go tasty humans podcast. No, no, no.

SPEAKER_02 2:11:38

If um seriously, no no, um Instagram, you know what I mean? Uh I don't know, it's Samuel underscore Graham, you know.

SPEAKER_00 2:11:50

So, what I'll do is I'll put all of the details, including the podcast, in the show notes so that everybody can come to see you. And the only thing that's left for me to say is it's been an absolute Absolute pleasure for you to be here. It's been fascinating to hear your story. I hope I've done you justice. Absolutely. And look, uh, the other thing to say is regarding the podcast, do not stop because it is phenomenal. Thanks. And regarding your personal and this business that you've started and this journey, it is needed. We we require it, not just locally within the UAE, but globally, because service is one of those things that I'm really passionate about. Same as you breaking bread over a table with a stranger is one of the things that that brings joy to life. And hospitality is a phenomenal industry that breathes life into everything that we do. So please do not stop.

SPEAKER_02 2:12:45

Well, the robots are coming now. And if you don't want to be replaced by one, don't act right one.

SPEAKER_00 2:12:50

Exactly. Thank you so much for being here today. Thank you for having me. I've really enjoyed it. Thank you. Just another incredible and fascinating conversation. Sam, thank you so much for sharing your phenomenal journey and your insights into building experiences that bring people together. It's so important. And by the way, make sure to also go and check out his podcast, Tasty Humans. If you want to see more of what Sam is doing, as always, head over to the show notes. To everyone listening or watching, if you've enjoyed this show, well, there's a couple of ways for you to support us. Don't forget to share the episode with as many people as possible, as we can really inspire a lot of people from the conversations we have. We could spark something within them. And don't forget to leave a five-star review on any podcast platform. It really helps for people to discover us from all over the world. Equally, a huge thank you to Valrona for supporting the show and making this content possible. Go and check them out as well as their beautiful chocolate. You can also support the show by picking up one of our amazing Thermos bottles, and they keep your drinks hot, cold, it could be souped, you could keep so many things in there, and they look super spyless too. Find all the details of where you can purchase them in the show notes. Thank you so much for staying until the very, very end, you absolute legend. This is Chef JKP signing out. Till next time, food is memories.