Why He Left Oil & Gas for Champagne | Ben Kouider (E166)

Chef JKP sits down with Ben Kouider, Founder of Champavin.

Ben shares how he went from engineering and oil and gas to building a business around champagne in the UAE.

They talk about Normandy, family food memories, global travel, leaving corporate life, grower champagne, and the biggest mistakes people make when drinking champagne.

This is a story about food, reinvention, and understanding champagne beyond the label.

WHAT YOU WILL HEAR IN THIS EPISODE
• Growing up in Normandy and the food traditions that shaped Ben's childhood
• Studying engineering, sales and international commerce
• Building a global career in the oil and gas industry
• Working across cultures, countries and complex international projects
• How travel and food deepened his appreciation for wine and hospitality
• Discovering the world of champagne and the growers behind it
• Leaving oil and gas to build Champavin in the UAE
• The biggest misconceptions people have about champagne today

CHAPTERS
03:31 Childhood food memories and his mother’s gratin
14:15 Science, hip hop and learning how to express himself
28:35 The pressure, politics and problem-solving of oil and gas
42:55 Building Champavin and bringing grower champagne to the UAE
56:44 The biggest champagne mistake people make
01:06:13 Champagne education, memberships and building a culture
01:18:06 How to choose champagne based on grape, style and taste
01:36:38 Quick fire round
01:41:49 Advice for people starting their champagne journey

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

That's right. The podcast is now on YouTube. So you can watch all of the interviews at your leisure. At the same time, your contribution to the show by hitting that subscribe button makes a monumental difference to the show, as we can keep inviting the guests you love and keep having the conversations that no one else is having. The only thing that I ask is that you share the show. Welcome to the Chef JKP podcast with me, James Knight Pacheco. Culinary brothers and sisters, foodie disciples, this is the place where you will find your solace. A place of worship for all things that combine us together. The common thread that brings us around the table. Food and memories. Wherever you are in the world, whatever you're doing, I ask that you sit back and listen and perhaps take away a few morsels of advice. There will be laughter, we're gonna get serious. Above all, lessons for life. You're listening to the Chef JKP podcast, and this is what you can expect on today's show.

SPEAKER_00 1:13

My mother was, you know what is the best day and the worst day in my life? I'm like, hmm, tell me. And then she was like, when you were born, I'm like, wow, wow, wow, all right, wow, and now the first thing that I had on my lips was a drop of champagne and not the milk of my mother. And for her for her, it was like, no, no.

SPEAKER_02 1:33

So when did you officially leave the oil and gas trade? 2022, it was finished. What did your boss's management family say?

SPEAKER_00 1:44

Are you sure about what you're doing? And then I had like all the people I was working with all around the globe. They're like, where are you going? What are you doing? What and I'm like, I cannot tell you.

SPEAKER_02 1:54

Can you tell me your funniest either kitchen or restaurant incident? So my most incident was probably hello my friends, and a very warm welcome back to the Chef JKP podcast. Now, halfway through the year, I hope you've all planned for your summer vacation, summer menus, etc. Or maybe you're planning for your winter menus. Scary thought. Before we dive in, uh, if you haven't already, please do not forget to hit that all-important subscribe button on YouTube or press follow wherever you get your podcasts. As it helps us to grow the show, we can keep on bringing you the most fascinating conversations with the most inspirational guests. That's all we will ever ask. Today's guest, and we've got so much incredible things lined up for you today, we're stepping into the world and the elegant world of champagne. We have never spoken about it on the show before. This is truly a first for us, but hopefully not the last. Our guest is Ben Cuide, founder of Champ Smart, and one of the most respected champagne specialists in the region. Now, I always say that champagne is more than just a drink or a beverage, it's a celebration, it's a history, and sometimes the best way to end a very long service. Now, you think you may have an idea about champagne, but in this conversation, Ben goes into great detail about how to further understand this incredible beverage. We're going to explore the culture of champagne, hospitality, and the art of pairing great food with great bubbles. Listen up for a story about gas and oil. Time to rock and roll. Just before we begin, here is a small message from this week's guest.

SPEAKER_00 4:09

Hey everyone, this is Ben Quidder. I'm the CEO of Champ Smart and Shopavin. If you liked the podcast, make sure to follow, share, and subscribe. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 4:21

Ben, a very warm welcome to the show. Now, can you please tell me your first or favorite childhood food memory?

SPEAKER_00 4:32

So, my first and the most, I will say, wonderful is still the Gratin Dauphinois made by uh my mother. And this is like a taste until now. Um, I will never forget, and I'm always sort of this person that will go all over the world and taste every time I have a gratin dauffinois just to see if they come close to the one made by my mother.

SPEAKER_02 4:57

Wow, that's a lot of pressure on people and restaurants and on myself. And on yes, oh really? So what's what's the key then, would you say?

SPEAKER_00 5:07

You know, it it's all about like the texture, the flavor. On paper, the gratin dauffinois looks very simple to make. But if you change a single small ingredient or the way to make it, everything can collapse. So I've been in a situation where even some people, some very good friends, invited me at home. Oh, we know you enjoy that. And I'm always like silent, and oh, okay, you don't like it. It's not I don't like it. For me, it has to be yes, I mean. So you have like a standard that you know from your childhood that you grow up with, and even when my mother knew that I was a little bit like not sad or upset with something, just by the smell, I knew straight away already there is the gratin d'auphinois being made and be ready in the oven.

SPEAKER_02 5:58

Well, Ben, look, I'm very curious. Of course, you're on a you're on a you know foodie show.

SPEAKER_00 6:04

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 6:04

So tell me what are the keys to that gratin d'eau finnois, please.

SPEAKER_00 6:09

I think it's number one, how do you slice the potatoes? It doesn't need to be like too thick, too thin. You need just to find the perfect size because once you cook them, you're going to cook them. It's going to be like a slow cook and they have to be like fondant.

SPEAKER_02 6:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:25

That's the thing, not to be hard because that's the issue sometimes. People they try to go too fast and they make it hard. Number two, it's the milk that you add inside. The level of milk needs to be just perfect. You need you cannot put too much, you cannot put too low. And then for each layer, you need to add the cream, creme fraîche, you need to add some gruyere, you need to add some uh salt, pepper. So I would say it's all about the balance. And I think the one of the secret recipes that my mother was doing, it's instead of putting the cheese straight away for like what we call the gratin gratine, she was letting it cooked, and then only at the end as a final touch, adding the cheese and put it as near as the grill. So it will like being like perfectly cooked, and then the crust on it will just be like fantastic.

SPEAKER_02 7:19

And and the crust was really kind of like a nice, beautifully melted crust, would you say?

SPEAKER_00 7:23

I would say crocon, really like oh yes, wow. So the inside was like soft, nice, and the outside, the crust was just like this perfect shell that you have on it, and you just want to dig.

SPEAKER_02 7:37

Yeah, you know, it sounds amazing. And uh, did she put things, you know, like aromatics inside, let's say like garlic or thyme or bay leaf or anything like this? No, no, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_00 7:47

No, no. So sometimes she will be like a bit adventurous. She will put like what we call no de muscade. It will be not easy for me maybe to translate it in English. I don't know the exact word. It's a nut, it's a nut. Ah, like nutmeg. Yes, yes, yes, okay, yeah, yeah. Um, but that's it. Okay. That will be like the only exotic side of it, but like not enough that you will not it will not disturb your palate.

SPEAKER_02 8:13

You know, I have to say that the way I judge restaurants for me normally is with a creme brûlé, right? And I love creme brûlé because it's very basic, but there are lots of ways that it can go wrong. Yes. And I completely agree with you actually with a gratin. Come to think about it, there are lots of ways for it to be great and lots of ways for it to go bad.

SPEAKER_03 8:35

Very bad.

SPEAKER_02 8:35

You know, and you're right, people hurry it up, they don't slow cook it enough. It could be thick, thin potatoes, not enough seasoning. They're actually there's a lot.

SPEAKER_00 8:44

A lot, a lot. You will never imagine, like on a simple gratin d'auffinois, how complex it can become. And I completely agree with you. Uh the creme brûlé is probably my second judging when I go and visit the restaurant. And I had a question earlier with uh someone that has been here here for years, and we were like, Yeah, I never find a place with a creme brulee. I'm like, I know a place, a very good place, and that's probably the only restaurant I know in Dubai that nailed the creme brulee. It's interesting, yeah. It's interesting. So, Ben, where in the world are you from? So I'm from Normandy, the south part of Normandy, uh born, raised over there, uh with a very small family, only two kids, me and my sister. And uh now we've been raised in a culture where uh my dad was a big fan of uh wine and uh and champagne. So for the fact, for the funny story, that uh one day when I was on probably when I was on my 15th, I was just sitting in a living room with um my parents, and we had like a conversation just like this. And my mother was, you know what is the best day and the worst day in my life? I'm like, hmm, tell me. And then she was like, When you were born. I'm like, wow, wow, wow, all right, wow, now okay, hold on. What is there? Um, yeah. Um your dad arrived at the nursery, and at that time you need to remember that in France it was completely allowed to bring alcohol. Uh you're born in the hospital, and that was allowed.

SPEAKER_01 10:20

Right.

SPEAKER_00 10:21

He bring two cases of champagne. Cases, cases, two, which is 12 bottles. Oh my lord. Uh happiness got the nurses drunk, and the first thing that I had on my lips was a drop of champagne and not the milk of my mother. And for her for her, it was like, nah, nah. So that was and everything made sense. We'll talk about it later. Sure. But yes, those are the moments uh for my childhood and where I'm from.

SPEAKER_02 10:56

Um, but as a as a family, and if you're talking about that specific sort of area of France, what would be the sort of um traditional family meals that you would have when you were all together?

SPEAKER_00 11:09

Um, I would say it was mainly about either you have dish with chicken, it was a lot of chicken, a lot of cheese. You need to remember in this area, literally cheese is the number one aspect, and I was lucky enough to grow up with dad that used to work in a restaurant and be like a chef. So everything was about the sauce in my family. Everything. My dad will the first thing that he will tell you was like, Look, I can make you just a dish with french fries and you will suck your finger because the sauce is fantastic, and I can make you a dish with like the best meat, and if the sauce is not there, literally you're not going to touch it.

SPEAKER_03 11:55

Right.

SPEAKER_00 11:56

So he will spend probably a good two hours just to nail the sauce. Any sauce you can imagine. He has traveled from Spain to North Africa to uh France. Uh so my dad literally was nailing those mix of flavors to make it just balance. So you grew up with like a certain palette, yeah, and you feel like, oh my god, you I'm the luckiest guy in the world because you don't know that, of course, because it's normal for you. But once you go and visit your friends or other family, you're sitting, you're eating, you're like, that's nothing like my parents are cooking at home. And and and and the number of like my friends who were coming at home eating, you will not believe that was fantastic. And when I was in school, I was lucky enough to live literally five minutes, uh maybe less from the school. So I I had the chance to come back for lunchtime, and every time I will have like one of my friends joining me, like, oh yeah, and my dad was cooking, my mom was at work. So I grew up in a sort of family uh background, not really commune. Usually it's the mother that is at home, the dad is at at work, but no, I was reverse at home, and I was lucky enough, yes, to have like two best two of the best cook I can imagine in my life.

SPEAKER_02 13:27

But I have to say, you know, it sounds like you grew up accidentally in a quite gastronomic family almost. 100% um because I that's a that's a lovely thing to to have, to be able to go to school three, four minutes away, come back for lunch, obviously see your parents and and your father's cooking, and and that instills that sort of uh gastronomy inside you, I suppose.

SPEAKER_00 13:53

Yes, yes, completely. And you you grew up with flavors with sort of like a complex palette, if I might say that, yes, that you don't realize, and then when you are sitting with other people and you're like describing all the flavors, people are looking at you like, how do you feel that? How I I don't get it, but because you've been like trained sort of since you're a child, that makes a complete difference at such a young age, right? Yes, such a very young age. And I was living with my parents until I was 18 years old, and then continue from my studies, change the city. But um, yeah, you don't you don't realize how lucky you are, how blessed, because I don't really believe in luck, but on bless. Um and I think yes, it's that that could make sense only later on in your life when you achieve certain things, you're like, I know where it's coming from. I know it might not be the most best three-star Michelin to one, but I was eating well and healthy, yeah, and that is the key.

SPEAKER_02 15:06

Can you tell me then about you know during high school and your education? What were the things that interested you?

SPEAKER_00 15:16

During high school, I was mainly like into I would say two things, a lot into science, like a normal thing about science and trying to understand trying everything, trying to have like a meaning, trying to understand space, trying to understand the world, and I was into dancing.

SPEAKER_02 15:37

So, what type of dancing?

SPEAKER_00 15:39

Hip hop, uh-huh. Okay, hip-hop dancing. So that was probably uncommune, but I know I loved music. This is something that has been there since always, and I've I'm a true believer either you know understand music or either you don't. It's it's something it's hard to learn. Sure. The rhythm to hear, it's something unfortunately very tough to learn if you don't have it.

SPEAKER_03 16:11

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 16:11

And it's the same with dancing. You can try to learn as much as you want about dancing, but if you don't have the rhythm, good luck. So you can learn the technique, but again, if it doesn't go together with the music, if you don't merge with the music, there is no point.

SPEAKER_02 16:31

You know what's really interesting is that um what why I smile is because so I studied music for 11 years, and my and my uh major was percussion and drums, right? So everything is always, as you said, has to be on beat, and and and half of of my DNA I'm from Venezuela, so South America. So everything is about dancing on on beats, and it's really funny because when you see some people dancing in clubs and whatever, you know who is on beats, and then you've got people who are just no. I call it the sync.

SPEAKER_00 17:06

If you know you can make the simplest movement, just move your finger. Yes, if you're on the beat, yes, it looks fantastic. You can make the most difficult move if you're not synced, you look like yeah, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 17:19

And we've all seen uh the uncles at weddings.

SPEAKER_00 17:22

Oh, yeah, you know, oh yeah, so we've been there, we've been there.

SPEAKER_02 17:25

Okay, so so that's quite interesting, you know, and two very different subjects to be interested in science, which is very studious and to understand, but also quite artistic hip-hop and dancing, which is quite cool.

SPEAKER_00 17:37

It is it is cool. So I think it's all about your brain. Yeah, your brain can be completely different. You know, you are like you feel like you're always spending your time with people older than you in the group, you're always the one giving advice, trying to lead, and you don't realize this only later on. Only later on, you're like, okay, maybe my brain like reads things differently. So you need to feed that brain, and that brain is like keeping all the time asking you, like, okay, let's have more information, let's bring that. So I think that yeah, the science was more about it's an infinite hole of knowledge, and that's what is good to literally feed your brain. And the artistic is how do I express myself? And those are two different parts of your brain where you like you absorb and you give, and when you're able to absorb and not giving, I think that's the struggle is how many genius we have seen that they were just like taking information and suddenly they just like flipped. And I think when you're able to do those two things, well, you can keep yourself busy.

SPEAKER_02 18:59

Uh I want to ask you, did you manage to do anything with those two subjects in particular, sort of after high school?

SPEAKER_00 19:08

Uh unfortunately, no, but I was able to help people through dancing. So I at that time I took my good friend where I grew up with. We went, and I was able to ask with the city, with the government to help us to go get classes, and then being able to teach the younger.

SPEAKER_02 19:32

Oh, amazing.

SPEAKER_00 19:33

So we were able to get the best uh knowledge techniques from some of the greatest dancers, and then we're giving classes for the local kids to help them um to I mean, yeah, uh teach about music, teach about the love of hip-hop, because at that time I I think it was not really seen as really a good thing, or dancing, hip-hop, hip-hop. But uh, it's all about artistic, it's all about expression. That's how what I love with music, dancing, and we'll talk about it later on. Wine. Yeah, this is all an expression.

SPEAKER_02 20:12

You mentioned earlier on that you know you you first moved away from from home when you were 18 to study.

SPEAKER_00 20:19

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 20:19

So, what did you study?

SPEAKER_00 20:22

So I started something completely different. I was into the electrical engineering.

SPEAKER_02 20:29

Electrical semi-science.

SPEAKER_00 20:30

Yes, another science was there perfect. This is what I love. I love understanding everything about electricity, and then I went deeper and deeper, but then I realized I was around myself and I was like, maybe that's not for me. Maybe that's something like do I see myself being becoming like just an engineer, being like in the office or trying to create something? No. My thing slowly, slowly was like, how do I discover the world? How do I travel? How do I express myself with sales? Because sales for me was the best way to be in contact with people. And I'm like, if you are able to convince people to make them like or to make them discover something that you enjoy, and then you see them, they enjoy it. Maybe there is something I can I can push more for that.

SPEAKER_02 21:25

So, how long did you study electrical engineering for, let's say?

SPEAKER_00 21:29

Um until I was 20 years old. Okay, so you did two two years? So I did let's say from when I was uh four or fifteen to twenty. Oh wow, so it's quite a substantial amount of time, five years. Yeah, I I I have a lot of knowledge. Okay, yes.

SPEAKER_02 21:48

So you did that, you you you know graduated, yes, but then during that time you were you were thinking, okay, I I need to find more ways in life. Life and yes travel. So how did you discover that after you graduated?

SPEAKER_00 22:04

So then I was like, what next? And then I discover a beautiful study that was literally launched. It was literally called Technical Commercial.

SPEAKER_02 22:17

Technical Commercial?

SPEAKER_00 22:19

Yes. So you are sort of the best knowledgeable in terms of like techniques, electricity, mechanics, but you are joining the sales profile. So you merge both at the same time. So you don't lose all this knowledge about what you have been achieving, like knowing. Think about like one of the sales guys that will try to sell you um an entire plant. How do you understand all the technical part, electricity, just being a sales, a pure sales that never learned about? And that's where those two balance. Okay. So you are good because you understand what you're selling as a product, and you're also good because you understand the sales techniques. And that was for me like an eye-opener. I was like, wow, this is for me the perfect world. And where was this job then?

SPEAKER_02 23:19

When when you found this sort of that specific I was still studied, you're still studying.

SPEAKER_00 23:23

I'm still studying. That's after uh when I was 20. So then I did I did that for two years.

unknown 23:31

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 23:32

Then I graduated. Then I wanted to push it even more because you do internship, you do many things, you discover the world. That's where I was like, you know what? My favorite topic now it's oil and gas.

SPEAKER_02 23:46

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 23:47

This is where it's fascinating. It was bringing for me economics, geopolitics, everything, and of course the money. So I was like, this is for me where I put my finger and like I'm going to study hard, but how and where? And suddenly I had this opportunity to be able to continue what we call in France its licence. Licence is like uh bachelor plus three, and I wanted to go and do a master. So I continue, and then I did a master on purely commerce international, economics, and specialize in oil and gas.

SPEAKER_02 24:29

How long was that for?

SPEAKER_00 24:30

An extra three years. Yes. And and and I did up, I did up one extra year. So with some international law. So it's been like a journey. I I I finished school, I was 26.

SPEAKER_02 24:48

So, I mean, that's uh some people would be like, you know, how could you study for such a long period of time? I mean, you're talking 11 years, right? Almost in that sci in that in that field, and then technical, commercial, oil and gas, and then you're going into the technicalities of everything else. But you must have enjoyed it.

SPEAKER_00 25:10

I loved it. Loved it. Every single moment. There is not a single of course you study hard, of course you face challenging. Um, some of them are economic, but in the between, I created even a brand for like apparel clothes, so that helped to pay my studies. Sure.

SPEAKER_04 25:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:31

Um, there was like so many things that I was doing. I was working hard. I I never had any holidays. So summer, I was working. Uh, every single holiday, I was working. I had the age to be able to work, so it was like temporary work. And the beauty is was every time I was like doing like a job during summer, they were like, Oh, we we we want to keep you. Please stay with us, stay with us. And all the people around me, they were like, No, keep pushing, keep going, keep going. And I'm like, Yeah, no, no, no. That was my quest. Was like, I know what I want to do, and I know what I don't want to do. It's like walking on a shift three times eight, and literally, yeah, it sounds like attracting when you're like 20, 22, and you get like a salary of like 1500 euro at that time. Wow, oh my god. But on the long run, I mean, I see it today.

SPEAKER_02 26:24

So you were very focused. Very when when did you know that you sort of really wanted to pursue this sort of field of oil and gas? Because again, you had that background of studying electrical engineering, and then you found this technical commercial, but the oil and gas sort of seemed to really spark something within you. When did you find that joy?

SPEAKER_00 26:51

First was when I was reading like newspaper. I was reading newspaper, I was checking, I was like, wow, I mean, it's fascinating. The world that goes around oil is not only just a petrol, it's not only something you put in your car, it's way more, way behind. And then you start understanding more about politics, then you start knowing about geopolitics, about the country, why and how. And you follow the oil price, and then you just like, wow, okay. And that at that time I was already following economics and the stock market and many things around. But when I joined this school um to do my master, literally we were 250 people, and they were going to keep 24 people only. So we had interviews, we had tests, we had so many things. And I still remember the people that was in front of me for the uh for the interview, and we were talking about oil and everything. And the guy, I think he was like, Look, I'm going to be very honest with you. I never seen someone so interested with oil and with the economy and with everything. But even when he asked me, okay, what is the price of the oil today? And I answered him the right question. And he was just like, Nice! Yeah, well, he thought I was like maybe talking too much, but this is something I was passionate with. And um, then I I focused all my internship with oil and gas at the company or subsidiaries. Where was the internship? Uh in Paris. Right. Yes, in Paris. And um, at that time I was not traveling with them, but I was taking care of many countries. So I had like a few mentors um with who I was I learned a lot. But I will say when it was the the biggest and the best was my last internship, even as a student internship, I was able to travel everywhere from Houston to North Africa to Africa, and it was fantastic. And that's where I was like, you know what, that is this is it. Um and for maybe 12 years, I was like just the most happiest person. And then things will change slowly, slowly over time because it will, I think, fade a little bit because you you're just traveling all the time. People they think like, oh, it's amazing. You're like in a business class all the time, you are in the best palaces. But this is not what I enjoy the most. What I enjoy the most is really like being surrounded with family, friends, having a good time, and I will be probably the most happiest person in a camping than a five-star palace.

SPEAKER_02 29:35

But during your time in the field of oil and gas, what would you say were some of the biggest challenges that you faced?

SPEAKER_00 29:45

Politics. I think politics is the the toughest because um you're always you are always walking on eggshells, and I will say you need to be tough because it's a wolf uh market. You need to be ready to psychologically like get gloves and take hits all the time. Oh, yeah. It's uh there is no you're talking about hundred million dollars contract, we're not talking about just uh a $20 bottle.

SPEAKER_02 30:25

So um, Ben, I gotta tell you uh in this show, we don't really we have a rule that we don't really talk about geopolitics or or politics, but in the light of what you do, so my grandfather was one of the biggest bosses of oil uh in in the in the country at the time, and I'm from Venezuela. So so he was one of the guys who used to look after it, and I didn't realize his role, and I didn't realize really too much, even when I was living in Venezuela how oil affects the world. Um, so it's just quite interesting, it's just really, really interesting that you talk about that because and I have no clue, hands up, I have no clue about the world of oil or gas and how it works, but um it's I find it extremely interesting that you say you have to really understand several things when it comes to oil. Not only what's going on geopolitically around the world, prices, so on and so forth, but also the psychology of dealing with other countries, other competitors, contracts. I can't imagine to be honest.

SPEAKER_00 31:40

I'll give you just an example very easy. The oil field will be in Mozambique, the engineering will be in Japan, the rig is going to be built in South Korea, and all the decisions are taken in Houston.

SPEAKER_01 32:03

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 32:04

That is just a normal common uh day-to-day. So you need to travel between Houston to Korea to Japan to Mozambique, and you might be dealing with Total in France. So you need to have all those people in the same room because at the end you do what we call an FAT and factory acceptance test to make sure like the entire factory, everything, bring everything together. So all those single people, they will be in the same room. They have different culture, they have different language, they have different interests. My nickname in my company was Problem Solver. I was the one who were able to have everybody sitting together, and when there was an issue, we brief, calm down, we have a solution.

SPEAKER_02 33:00

Okay. So then, Ben, in that respect, when when it came to the problem solving part, now I'm gonna give a theoretical, let's say, situation. If you have, let's say, uh 12 people around the table, you know, you're gonna have a considerable lengthy meeting, right? Because there's so many issues and things going on. People left, right, and center are not agreeing, there's disagreements because of culture, language, all of that kind of stuff. How do you before you go into the meeting? How do you have the plan to try and make sure that everybody is on the same page?

SPEAKER_00 33:42

I always translate this to frequencies. One of them will be at 55 kHz, the other one will be at 70, the other one with 200. You need to bring them all at 100 kilohertz.

SPEAKER_02 33:59

How do you do that?

SPEAKER_00 34:00

You need to read them, you need to understand them. We all have different needs, we all have different aspects. The guy from Japan is going to have like, okay, I did my design, I did my engineering, but I'm not willing to move. They are Japanese, with all the respect, and they are good. The other guy that is buying is like my budget is this, I don't have any room to add more. So it's all about how big is the issue. And I will say the number one, number one thing that people enjoy the most is to have a positive atmosphere. So you always sit next to the big guy. Always. Because if you sit in front, you're dead. So once you sit next to the big guy and just tell him nicely, quietly, it's fine, we're going to get it. Most of the time you can be sure that the issue will get solved nicely.

SPEAKER_02 35:03

And when you say the big guy for context, give me an example.

SPEAKER_00 35:08

You always have somebody that will open his mouth louder than the other.

SPEAKER_02 35:13

Right.

SPEAKER_00 35:14

And he's usually the guy that will destroy your conversation and the negotiation. That's in life, no? Yeah, yeah, no, that's right. That's why that's that's in life. But it gets harder when you have different culture and when you come from different countries. Yes, yes. Completely harder. You don't deal the same with somebody from Japan or somebody from Houston. Completely different. Now, do I have a secret recipe? No. It's how your brain absorbs the information, read the information, and translate how do you adapt at that moment. And this is something, even myself, I will never be able to tell you how do you do that? It's a skill that it's very hard to nail. And I felt over the time this is has always been one of my strongest elements. Like you sit with different people. How do you make sure everybody will speak the same language?

SPEAKER_02 36:23

Because that's I find that to be a gift, you know, especially you know, whether it's uh in business development, whether it's in sales, you know, whatever, even even in in rooms when you're networking, right? You always have that one person who is like the loudest. Yes, you're right. But actually, the people who are quieter are the ones that have the more important things to say, I find you know completely, completely.

SPEAKER_00 36:47

They will say maybe one word in one hour, but that world, that word, if you don't pay attention to it, that's it. You lost. Yes, because it will give you one chance.

SPEAKER_02 36:59

It's true, it's true. So then, of course, throughout your time, you know, you were traveling and you were going all over the world. Uh, when did you start having, you know, apart from when you were born, when did you start having your true love for all things wine and champagne?

SPEAKER_00 37:24

I think that that was always there. I I don't like I cannot just tell you one moment in particular, but I will tell you how did I maybe discover that I wanted to get more from the world? That was Mexico. I lived there for one year, I studied there. Um, that was just before my last year of study, and this is where I discover a culinary scene that uh blew my mind completely. And I was like, wow, I thought we were good in France, I thought we had one of the best cuisine in the world, but Mexico, oh my god, either you go on the north, south, east, west, completely different, and that gave me a huge appetite in terms of traveling and discovering food all over the world. But when it comes to wine and champagne, it's really like in your DNA. There is nothing uh you can um, I will say the love increased more when I was here in Dubai. I think it's because um we were not having access to everything else we had back home. But this is another topic. I mean, we can talk about my transition from oil and gas to how do I become a cabin champagne?

SPEAKER_02 39:05

No, that's what I wanted to understand because a lot of people and in a job like oil and gas, I can imagine the pay is good, the the lifestyle is generally good when you're not in these sort of board meetings. Um, but to then make the pivot to really make the change to sort of have your own business, and you're you're not you don't have a sort of professional food and beverage background, shall we say? So to make that change, why did you decide to do that?

SPEAKER_00 39:41

I think first you need to be crazy, um, but you need to be crazy in love with your passion. My passion has always been champagne. So, like we were saying earlier about this anger of understanding something. At the beginning, I was taking champagne as just it's a beautiful drink, pleasant, I enjoy it, beautiful bubbles, and I thought I knew a lot when people around me was asking me questions about champagne. I was able to answer all the questions. Then came a time where I was asking myself more questions, yeah, but basic question: how do we make champagne? I will say the common, normal people, 95%, probably doesn't know how do we make champagne. You can see champagne, you think you know everything about it, but behind the scene, it's a black hole. And slowly, slowly, I started to go to champagne and meeting very interesting people that literally opened to me their knowledge, even if I was a complete novice, to be honest. Um the more I was opening doors, the more I was having doors behind the door. Okay, if I make it simple to understand. And every time I was closing one, I was like, oh my god, there is 10 more. And I'm still at door one. And again, 10 more and again, it's a never-ending story. So now I was like, okay, I'm cealing oil and gas, I'm getting this beautiful hobby of champagne, trying to understand, trying to get it, but it's consuming me. It's time to make a choice. And the more I was seeing like the people around me with the lack of knowledge, the more I was like, okay, there is a huge gap of understanding champagne. How do we fix that? Number one, let's get myself good into knowledge. And funny fact, anybody that comes to you and says, I know everything about champagne, is a liar. Even myself, I cannot tell you I know everything about champagne. Probably on the range of the FL Tower, I know as of today, barely 50%. And it will be even after this lifetime, it will not be enough, unfortunately. Um, but you can know the very strong base, and that's where I wanted to bring this knowledge to Dubai, to the UA in general. But I faced a big challenge, huge challenge, and I will have never expected that challenge. Number one was Champagne didn't want to know anything about Dubai, and Dubai didn't want to know anything about what we call grower Champagne.

SPEAKER_02 42:47

So you're back in the boardroom trying to connect again.

SPEAKER_00 42:50

You get it, you get it. So again, we are back. You have your flag, UA flag when you arrive in in Champagne, and everybody's like, Ben, do they even like drink in Dubai? And I'm like, dude, okay, let's see. Yes, yes, yes. And you start going into conversation, explaining, and you spend a lot of time. Then you arrive here and you talk with the two major uh distributors, you try to tell them, but they're like, Ben, it's a market, you know, uh, where it's all about brand, big names. Uh, it's going to be difficult. I'm like, oh my god, how do you make a bridge between those two? And and you were still working at this time, or I was still working.

SPEAKER_02 43:34

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 43:35

I was still working. In the between, in oil and gas, I created my own company. Okay. That gave me flexibility to have the best of both worlds.

SPEAKER_02 43:44

Right. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 43:45

Give me the flexibility of learning about champagne and at the same time having like a solid income to pay the bills.

SPEAKER_02 43:53

And and what year did you establish the company?

SPEAKER_00 43:56

Now just before COVID. Okay. Just before COVID. Okay. And then once you reach there and you are able to convince Champagne to gain their trust, and this is why I'm going to go back on my childhood about flavors and everything without even having a sommelier background. I was able to read the champagne. So when we were sitting with one of the best seller masters, the best grower, I was telling them my feelings. Not with the exact sommelier world, but at least I was expressing myself of what I was feeling. And I was like, wait a minute, you yeah, you feel it, you understand it. So we're going to teach you more.

SPEAKER_04 44:50

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 44:50

And the more I was meeting people, the more they were referring to other people. Hey, I have this guy, Ben, he's in Dubai. Give him a chance. He knows what he's talking about. Very okay. So I was able within two years to meet all the seller masters you can imagine. From I'm not going to name any any brand, but anybody you can imagine in Champagne. And then that was the first step of my journey. Then I started slowly, slowly started to understand that look, the grapes come from what we call grower. And if you want to understand champagne, I'm taking it the wrong way. I'm trying to understand the bottle, the bubbles, but the true meaning on how to understand champagne is actually the terroir, the soil. Once you start growing rewinds and understand that it's the soil, it's the grower, then everything makes sense. You clearly understand a lot more about what's going on in your glass. Because then you understand that okay, Champagne has always been known as a blending. This is come from the mosque, Dom Pérignon, getting all his grape from all the different villages because people they were paying a tax. And the tax was actually paid in grapes. This is why the abbey was receiving like grapes from all over the different villages. Dompérignon has this beautiful idea of like, okay, I'm going to blend all those grapes together and make like a single wine. And that this is one of the stories behind the story of Champagne. But when you know each village, and then you zoom again, now you have a single plot. This is like an eye-opener. Completely eye opener. Because then you're like, oh my god, for so many years, I was trying to understand something that literally was completely blended and was not giving me the true story of what I have in my glass. Because I'll take a very easy example. In Champagne, you have 17 Grand Cru villages. They are all different. But in Champagne, the 17 Grand Cru, they are by village. They are not by single plot. It's a village. So either you are like on the west side, east side, north side of the mountain, the grapes are going to be completely different.

SPEAKER_02 47:36

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 47:36

Completely different. But when you start talking about single plot, it starts to make sense. Because then you understand really what is the quality of the grapes. So think about the equation went from a simple equation of like one bottle to now you're adding more to your equation. Is it going to be single plot? Is it going to be single grip? Is it going to be oak? Is it going to be stainless steel? Is it going to be glass? Is it going to be dosage? Is it going to be so if you want to understand champagne fully? That's what I mean. One lifetime is not enough. And that's where for me, bingo, I found the topic, which I'm passionate, which I know I will never get bought. Ever. So bringing this now, you need to absorb all those information because if I bring any of my good friend Vignon from Champagne in front of like a novice public, they will be lost. So you need to digest all this, and again, we are back to the oil and gas, and to transform the information to give it to the most simple, nicest message. And people are like, I got it. You just save them 10 years of understanding. And that's why Sham Smart came into the picture. I'm like, okay, now that people are getting the knowledge, people want to discover more Champagne, they have the anger. How do we increase it? So I went to see the two main distributors here. And I'm like, yeah, guys, I think there is something very nice. I'm like, man, look, we all have diplomas here, we all have this, we know everything. Literally, you're not bringing anything on the table. Okay, that was the first challenge. Then we went from that to give us your contact, we'll make it happen. And that's where they created Champavin. That's why I was like, no way, I'm not going to waste all this time, effort, knowledge. It has to be a win-win. And I think one of the best deals was to be able to import, but going through the distribution. You go through the main two distributors, and they have today, now a selection of at least between the two of them, 35 different different champagnes, which is that came from you. Yes. Which is fantastic. And so many things arrive into the path. You had Michelin, you had Goemio, the Champagne Index. So all this has increased this appetite of champagne. If I would have done the same earlier, it will have never worked. So I want to say all the planets will align at the perfect time to make it happen.

SPEAKER_02 50:54

Can I ask Ben, you know, because there's there's two things in particular. First of all, you know, you had you're in your job, or your formal job, let's say, which is an incredibly technical one, and it takes a lot out of you mentally and physically, I suppose, also with the travel. But at the same time, you have this beautiful hobby, which then turned into a passion, which then turned into a business, right? And at one point, you were managing both somehow. When was the the what was the the straw that broke the camel's back? When was the actual decision made for you to go like, you know what? I'm gonna stop my old career and go into this beautiful career of champagne. What was that moment?

SPEAKER_00 51:48

Brainfrost. Brain frost. I was just I was doing everything from home, my table, day to day nice, opening the window, listening to the birds, getting the best. And at some point, I sat on my sofa and I was like, you're human, your head cannot take anymore. All this, you need to make a decision. Either you go, I jump, and I don't want to say without parachute because I knew what was going to happen, but it was more you need to make a decision. From now, you're going to go low expense on everything. You need to go like very hard on yourself. I used to have a Porsche, I went into a Tesla. Um, there is so many things that I downgraded just to be ready to manage the situation. And to give you an idea, I went from whatever I was making in one month in oil and gas, I'm now making it in 12 months. Right.

SPEAKER_02 53:00

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 53:01

Just to give a good aspect of but, and that's the beauty, along this journey, there were like so many things that I was not thinking about it that champagne brings into the table. And that's where being on two worlds, you become just a killer machine because you have the passion, you know how the business works, and when you combine those two, you literally become unstoppable. The number of wool I had on my face on the champagne journey, you don't want to know. It's huge. It's huge. It goes from opening just a bank account in the UE when you're saying, I'm dealing with champagne. Shh we know it's good, but you need to be quiet and you need to respect the country, and there is like culture, of course, and there is so many things that go around. So it's all about improving the market, but you need to follow the rules and you need to be making sure that it has to be discreet. And that's where when you're like a bullet and you want to go at like 1000 kilometers per hour, because you have all the knowledge, all the contact, and you're just like, no, take a big breath, and it's going to be like it will take time, but it will happen. And as of today, honestly, I cannot complain.

SPEAKER_02 54:34

Um this season of the Chef JKP podcast is brought to you by Valrona, the French chocolate house that's been inspiring chefs and creators for over a century. Valrona isn't just chocolate, it's perfectly crafted from bean to coverture. Every flavour, aroma, and texture is shaped with precision, passion, and purpose. Whether you're baking, tasting, or simply indulging, Valrona's approach is simple. Extraordinary ingredients treated with extraordinary care. Valrona elevates every experience. For more information, head over to Valrona.com forward slash Valrona Middle East Africa and India. Now back to the episode. When did you officially leave the oil and gas trade?

SPEAKER_00 55:31

2022. 2022. 2022, it was yeah, it was finished.

SPEAKER_02 55:36

And what did your boss's management family say?

SPEAKER_00 55:40

Huh. Are you sure about what you're doing? And then I had like all the people I was working with all around the globe. They're like, where are you going? What are you doing? What's next? And I'm like, I cannot tell you. I cannot tell you. Yes. Literally, like people they were they knew I was like a free agent because the world went very fast. Yeah, of course. And I I I kept it quiet. I kept it completely quiet. And I was like, okay, now what I say to everyone, I need my time, I need my time to relax, and I need, but that's where I felt like, wow, now it's like one single job, and I'm going to be like everywhere. So I I went, I mean, my rotation to Champagne was literally almost every month. Almost. Wow. All the time. All the time. All the time. I was like, people, they were like, yeah, now did you move to Champagne? I mean, I'm like, no, I'm still between. And it's not only Champagne, it was also other parts of the world. Uh sometimes it would be like a festival for champagne in the US. I'll be there. A festival of Champagne in Finland, I'll be there. Um, it was all about spending most of the time with people that they were bringing me so much knowledge that I was like, please feed me, feed me all the time. And the more again, the more I was scratching, the more I was like, I know nothing. Literally. And now, yeah, I can probably say that I surrounded myself with probably la creme de la crème of all the champagne connaisseurs in the world, the best journalist, the best uh champagne critic. I'm myself a judge for the IWSC uh for the champagne section. Um, I was a judge here for Starwin List. Uh, so when it comes to knowledge for champagne, I think um it's good to have, let's say, a champagne connaissor. I don't like the word expert, but a champagne connaissor in the region that is able to answer all the questions of the sommelier, the distributors, and again, uh I love it.

SPEAKER_02 58:02

So, first of all, congratulations. Thank you. Because it's not an easy thing to do. Thank you. And I can imagine that there's been uh a huge amount of challenges uh within the trade. However, you know, um the first question is in your opinion, if I wanted to go into into the world of of champagne, what are what would you say from from all of your years of experience is the biggest misconception about champagne, first of all?

SPEAKER_00 58:36

The first miss I will say straight away, believe me, it's not champagne itself. You will be surprised. It's the glass.

SPEAKER_02 58:46

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 58:46

But 99% of the people, if you don't put them a flute in front of them, they think there is an issue. You cannot drink champagne out of the one glass. Champagne is a wine. Champagne is the king of wine. That's what the it was nicknamed before it was called champagne. But if you put a glass of wine instead of a flute, people are like, wow, no, it's not normal. It's not normal. So that that's the number one big misunderstanding that you find in the trade market. And now is that globally then? Oh, yeah, globally, globally, globally, and to give you an idea, I love what uh Olivier Krug said. Drinking out of a flute, it's like going to the opera with earplugs.

SPEAKER_03 59:36

Brilliant! I love it.

SPEAKER_00 59:38

I love it. I mean, uh wow, or like inhaled it. Wow, inhaled it. You're literally getting half of the experience. So, how should you drink it then? A tulip glass. That's the minimum. That's the minimum. A tulip glass, if they don't have take a white wine glass, it's fine. Fine, you're completely fine. At least as long as you can put your mouth and your nose in the glass, you have like the full experience with a flute, the trial, you you can put on your mouth. So already you're losing half of it. And number two, the flute is so narrow. Yes, you're getting all the dioxide carbon that will numb your nose. So you don't you're not getting the aroma or anything like that? You're getting the bubbles or the nose, you're getting nothing. That is the only thing you're getting on the flute, a nice what we call entrain. That's it. The bubbles.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:29

So, do you then um can I ask? Do you tell the restaurants nowadays, do you advise them on how to serve in in different glasses?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:41

Million percent. Million percent. We are blessed to have amazing sommelier that came all over the world that you don't need to teach them anything. They know very well the topic. But you still have a lot of people that either they don't want to understand, or either they have the pressure of the clients that literally you need to educate. Okay, but you need to take the time, and sometimes I understand, like somebody they don't have the time. It's fire, it's the rush. Uh, they ask you this, you serve, and that's it. Will you have the time to educate? And I completely understand. And this is why I think ShamSmart has been good at that, at educating people on number one, what glassware you should use. Yes. Forget about champagne. We are not even there. Glassware. Then comes champagne. That's another topic. And that's where I think the sommelier here have found how they found a good solid base on Ben, you know, I was having this champagne in Copenhagen. I was serving this champagne in Sydney, but it's not available here. Wait, let me handle it. I have the contact, I have the allocation, I'm in Champagne. Then you talk with the distributor, the local distributor. Hey, we make your life easy. We're going to import, we have it here available. It's available locally. And that's where the distributors are like, we don't have anything to lose. We are not sitting on the stock. It's easy. So now my good friend from XYZ restaurant. Yeah, it's available. There we go. Brilliant. Wow. So you're trying to fix, remember, problem solver?

SPEAKER_02 1:02:27

Yes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:29

Don't get me wrong. It looks easy. It's not. No, no, no. And it's expensive.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:34

Yeah, I bet. I bet. Well, that's the next thing, isn't it? But look, so so the first misconception is the glass, and I think that's amazing. That's a great lesson for everybody. I think. What would you say is another misconception about champagne that people get wrong?

SPEAKER_00 1:02:49

Oh. They are they are they have over the years, since maybe they are 20, 20 plus, or you know, the usual champagne you get for Christmas or for New Year or for the birthday. You have names that they have remembered and they have used for a long time.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:11

Like brand names, let's say.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:13

Not only brand. You have the famous word brut and the second famous word, I mean sentence, blanc de blanc. Okay. Those are two words, believe it or not. Anybody that don't really know champagne, if you ask him what would you like, he will answer to you, I want a brute champagne. Yeah, but brute doesn't mean anything, to be honest with you. It's a dosage. A dosage is a level of sugar that you add in the champagne. Right. A brute can be between literally between six to twelve grams of sugar. That's all it means. Okay. So you can have a brute at 11 grams or one at six, and they will taste completely different. This is number one. And blanc de blanc, if you ask them what do you mean by blanc de blanc? For them, it will be impossible to answer. It's because it's just a generic word that they have known, that they have used, that they have taste, but they don't know that blanc de blanc means just that the champagne has been made with only white grapes.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:19

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:20

And most of the time, because blanc de blanc literally means white of white in French, and most of the time, 99% of the case, it's going to be a hundred percent Chardonnay. And that's the misconception I felt not only in Dubai, all over the world, it's those two that you have. And then the aberration that you find a lot, and I will say most of the time, it's people calling sparkling wine champagne or even proseco champagne. Or cava. Yeah, or cava, you name it. Champagne is champagne. It comes from only a single place, which is in France, which is in a region, and nothing else.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:05

And that's why sometimes you can harm the world champagne by having just a sparkling wine. You call it champagne. Oh no, I don't like champagne. How many times I met like people that told me I don't like champagne? I'm like, wait a minute, let's see. We go through a small tinging, and I'm sure I'm going to reconciliate you. Ah, it's because the one I have tried before was completely different. No, it's because you have tried maybe something that they call champagne, but it was maybe from a different area. And again, I respect all the sparkling in the world. Sure, sure, sure. But there is something that champagne does different than the other. And we can spend hours talking about it. But you need to just to give you an idea, and it will, I think, make people think about it, a kilo of grapes in let's say, kabah. Will be you think the the price of a kilo of grapes?

SPEAKER_02 1:06:03

Oh my god. In in euros or let's say for a kilo of grapes again. I'll be nice and say 10 euros.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:14

No, you are far away. You are far away. Far away. We were talking about maybe 75 cents max, one euro. And what is the kilo of a grape in Champagne? Average eight to nine euros.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:29

Oh wow, right. Okay. So it's all about the quality then.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:33

Yes. All about the quality. All about the terroir, all about the land. There is so when I hear like people, yeah, but I buy this uh three times cheaper. You need to start first to see the cost behind a bottle of champagne to understand the price. It's not about marketing. Some people did, yeah, there is a big gap sometimes with a huge marketing aspect, but most of the time, it just to make a bottle of champagne, you need 1.2 kilo of grapes.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:06

One bottle.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:07

One bottle. One bottle. That's already puts you, as an average, let's say 10 euro, you didn't even start. You needn't talk about the glass, you didn't talk about the cork, about the label, about everything else.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:23

Well, also keeping the land.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:24

Yes, yes, everything else. It's it's it's massive. So when I see like a bottle of champagne in Europe, in the supermarket at 13 euro or 14, I stay away. There is something awkward behind it because you know already how much it costs to have like a good quality of champagne, to be honest. Anything below my suggestion is anything below 18 euros. And that's at the seller. I'm not talking at the supermarket. So at the supermarket, anything below 22, 23 euros, it's it's tough.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:01

So then you talk about uh Sham Smart, and uh the great thing is that you already have an education piece that you're already educating professionals. Yes, but also within your business, you also have memberships for let's say uh amateur connoisseurs. Why was that important to you? Because especially within this market, it seems like uh the UAE in particular, we celebrate everything all the time, right? But people really don't seem to know. Uh they may know about the four or five basic brands of champagne, but they don't really know the technicalities. So, within those memberships, what do you offer to somebody like myself who is not a a professional sommelier, but I I'm I'm keen to learn about champagne?

SPEAKER_00 1:08:56

Number one is the understanding of what is champagne. That that that is the the common basic because there is so much to learn about how champagne has been elaborated, to where it comes from, to why it is today champagne. That's exactly what we just covered. This is the basic, and for me, this is what people they need to understand first. If I see like straight away that after those 10-15 minutes they don't catch this message, there is no point of continuing. We have different people, different knowledge, different interests of people, and for me it's very important. Remember, we're talking about people in the room that bring the vibe, it's so important. So if you have one bad apple in it, you're destroying everything you have been built, and that's the point of having members, membership, because you can select who you want in, who you want out.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:59

Oh, very good.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:00

It's I will never spoil the quality of nine people for one person, never. So this is why we were like, we need to make it as let's say a member club membership, because you can select who you want in, who you don't want, and then it's all about discovering because now we have the beauty of having a so much good selection. We went literally from being 10 years late compared to London, Paris, Tokyo, New York. I would say now we are maybe four years late compared to those big uh cities, and thanks to the two distributors we have here, because they've been listening, they've been encouraging that, and it was hard at the beginning, but now it's yeah, we see it.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:51

Very good.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:52

Um I will not say where we rank, but you will be shocked compared to some very big famous brand where we are now. Um, but it was never about how much we're going to make, it was all about let's bring the selection so people they can pick. So I sit back myself a few years back sitting on a menu in front of me in those beautiful restaurants and be like, okay, guys, literally, anywhere I go in Dubai, you have the same champagne list, the same name, the same you're not making me trouble. Nothing. And that's where I felt we need to change that. This is why we had the membership, this is why we had the members, the people that we can educate. And those people now, believe it or not, they are educating the other people. So it's this entire journey, entire passion of champagne, that now it became just like sort of a movement, but on a very nice way. You have like, I don't know how many groups of like wine lovers, wine people, champagne lovers, champagne people. And I feel like this is a culture we didn't have before in Dubai. We didn't have. And now it's like improving, but everybody's pushing for that. And the more you educate people, the more you show them, the better it is. But with this membership, now we are even taking people to Champagne, travel in Champagne.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:29

I was gonna say, because that's a great part of your business. Yes, it is where where you know, again, these members they really get to see the real truth behind what it takes to make these beautiful champagnes.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:43

Not only that, there is Ben talking to you for hours and hours and explaining you what he has digested from champagne, bringing it to you, and going there, meeting the people behind the bottle. That's what I love to say. Because for all those beautiful bottles of champagne, you can clearly feel the soul of the person making it. And when you go in his vineyard, in his domain, the light is on completely. And we have started the traveling champagne last year, huge success. Uh, to tell you how big is the success, we are already sold out for 2026. We are opening 2027.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:29

My word.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:30

So at small groups, we make it like very boutique.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:35

How small it looks like eight people. Okay, perfect.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:37

Eight people, very good, two nice Mercedes minivan. Yeah, and we take you to the places where you never have access.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:43

And how long are those trips for?

SPEAKER_00 1:13:46

From we start Monday afternoon and we finish Saturday morning. Beautiful, perfect length, two visits a day, and at the same time, we bring you to the best restaurant for lunch and dinner, and we cover everything. You just need to arrive in Reims and we take care of everything else.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:04

But also, what must be amazing is that they these your your members, they they see the true artisans in every sense of the word, uh, and then the knowledge and the connections that they come back with must be quite phenomenal, actually.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:21

It is every time the people that has joined, they were like, We were not expecting that. We will have never imagined the relationship that you have with those people. Because they literally welcome you for some of them in their own home, in their own house, and they put food on the table like you are family member. Wow. And that's the true unique experience people they are looking for.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:51

Connection. Connection.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:53

Connection. And then when you see like we make a mix, because we don't like to be like just oh, we follow the grower or we follow the big houses. We make a mix of both. Because I love to call it La Champagne. For me, it's like a region, it's not just oh yeah, because Champavin work with this grower, this grower. No, no, no, no, no. We work with everyone, we go, we visit everyone, they are friends, and that's where it brings ever and something else. Because it's not about oh, Ben is going to bring some business. No. We understand, we respect Ben for his knowledge and how and what he does for the region.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:33

And that's why it's and all of those growers. Uh do they have like an infinite uh you know a huge amount of of uh champagne or is it very limited?

SPEAKER_00 1:15:50

80% of them are highly limited. We're talking about people, some of them for each champagne they probably produce 500 bottles for the world. That's it. That's it. And when it's done, it's done. It's very limited. Very, very, very limited.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:05

This is like Does that push the price up?

SPEAKER_00 1:16:09

We are lucky to not play this game.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:12

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:13

So sometimes, believe it or not, champagne bottles will be cheaper here than anywhere else in the world.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:21

Why is that?

SPEAKER_00 1:16:22

Because we don't play the game of what we call the secondary market.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:26

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:27

We have a bottle of champagne, we got it at this price, we just add a markup, fixed markup, and we distribute. But what people do most of the most of the time in the world, they know this is limited. They know people are asking for it, so there is a market price. Like you can take art, you can talk about watches, you can talk. So the price, I give you a good example, a bottle of right now. We have a very good producer, his name is Jules Brochet, very good champagne. We just checked the prices in France. His last time his bottle went on auction in France, 320 euro. 320 euro with the commission. I'll show you the the picture after after the show. Uh available here in Dubai, less than 100 euro. No, less.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:26

It's really interesting.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:28

So, this is to show you why we are so sort of blessed because we have today, and I'm weight putting a weight into my world, but we have by far probably the most exciting champagne grower selection in the world. In the world, so not the region, in the world, in the world, in the world. Every person in Champagne, they will tell you usually in every market you have different people, different distributor, different importer, but Ben is the only one that has been able to bring everything, everybody together and believe into his project. And this is why we were the first. And by being the first, we are able to get the trust of all those different people. And today, yes, we can probably say that we have uh the best selection in the world.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:29

And your your company's based here.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:31

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:32

But of course, I can imagine that you're, you know, you you you travel all over the world. I'm sure people called you from all over the world, especially your ex-colleagues from oil and gas as well, just to make sure. Yes, yes, yes. Uh Ben, we have a problem. Yes. But then look, I want to talk about some some small things when it comes to specifically tasting now. Um the thing is, a lot of the time, uh, and I'm gonna talk about from my my experience. Um, when when I go to to restaurants or if there's like a particularly great networking event, there's always champagne, and I'm very particular because of the restaurants and that I've worked in, so on and so forth, that I'm I'm not really I understand kava and prosecco. Personally, I prefer kava to prosecco, but when it comes to champagne specifically, then um I'm the type of person who likes very uh smooth, rounded, soft, not crazy bubbles, things like this. But I I think if if you were talking to most people when they when they when they taste champagne or when they see it, they get that sort of very sharp hit in the mouth, uh, still a lot of bubbles, and they don't really understand the flavors. So what can I do? How how what are the things that I'm looking for for great champagne?

SPEAKER_00 1:19:57

You're going to have different profile. And the profile will start with number one: what type of grape do you have in in your glass, in your bottle? In Champagne, you have officially now seven, eight, nine that just been introduced, grape variety officially approved in Champagne.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:21

Officially.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:22

Officially. But over those nine, you have three that are representing 99% of what is being used in Champagne, which is Pinot Noir, Chardonnay, and Meunier. So if you're looking for the electric parts of it, more tense, more like yeah, you're talking about Chardonnay. Chardonnay is what I will always call, think about like a body, the skeleton. This is like a straight line. This is how you when you build like a champagne assemblage, this is your literally your base. Then you're going to have Pinot Noir. Pinot Noir is more round, or it's like the muscle. This is what on your body will be the muscle part. And then you have Meunier. I love to call meunier, it's the skin. It's probably one of the most fragile. And if you don't take care of meunier, it can go sideways. Okay. And this is one of the most common reasons why all the champagne Prestige Cuvée, they are mainly made of Pinot Noir and Chardonnay. And that word Prestige Cuvée means what? All the high brands you can imagine imagine from Louis Roderier, Cristal to Dom Perignon. So these are the most premium, right? Yes, the most premium. You will check, you will see it's 100% always Pinot Noir Chardonnay.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:51

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:51

Period. Meunier has always been seen as sort of the black sheep of Champagne, but without any real reason. It doesn't really age as much as the Chardonnay, and I think that's probably one of the reasons. But again, that's another topic. So to come back on your taste, I will say profile. If you tell me like Ben, I like something like more round, less electric. I will go okay. Number one, I'll go for Pinot Noir because for sure you're going to have like more like of this like red flavor. It's not red, it's completely white, but this is the aromatic of the Pinot Noir based on this edge. Okay, cool. The more the Pinot Noir is going to edge, you're going to go from wild berries, bit of strawberries into even tobacco, mucca, coffee. That's the aging profile of the Pinot Noir. And then if you add another thing about electric, electric is going to be more or less a young wine in fermented in stainless steel tank. Stainless steel. Yes. This is most of the champagne being like edge in a stainless steel tank. This will give you like the freshness and more electric. But if you go on an oak barrel edged, you're going to have something more round. Completely more round with like some even like vanilla flavour, spicy flavour. It's going to change everything.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:25

What's the difference in aging then from within stainless steel to oak barrel, would you say?

SPEAKER_00 1:23:35

Think about straight line, roundness. This is the most simple way of describing stainless steel with oak, knowing that so many things can happen in the between to change that. Because it depends on the size of the oak. You're talking about like a Burgundy size or 228-liter barrel, or are we talking about like a large cask oak barrel? I can make you try a large cask oak barrel, and you will feel like, oh wow, there is no oak, 100% it's stainless steel. No, but this makes a huge difference, especially when it comes to youth of the champagne. You will feel it straight away. Like, okay, this is stainless steel, this is oak. Most of the houses, most of the houses in Champagne, they ferment their champagne, their wine in stainless steel.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:29

For how long?

SPEAKER_00 1:24:31

I will say between seven months to 12 months. Okay. The only one that work mostly on oak barrel as a house, you have Krug, you have Bollinger, and those are like the big names that usually do more on the oak side. That's why I have like a lot of people that say, like, oh my god, I love Krog. Yeah, you just like you just love oak.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:59

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:00

But when you don't know behind the scene on how do we make champagne, it's hard to understand. Because then when you're sitting in front of your wine list, in front of your champagne list, you're like, hey, Monsieur Sommelier, let me know who's doing their fermentation in oak barrel. That's where you're going to have the roundness. Beautiful. We were talking earlier about some specific vintage. This is also a layer of putting more roundness. Talking about 2015, 2015, very solar year, very sunny. It's going to bring you like a very round profile. Even a champagne like Salon, for example, 2015. This is the most really salon I have seen in my life. Usually, salon, you need to wait a good 10 to 20 years after release to be like, oh yeah, oh yeah. All the complexity is there. But it's it's salon, it's made this way. But they released 2015, and when I had the first taste at Salon, I was like, wow, you know what? That is the most ready salon that people, normal people, they will understand what is Salon. But is it my favorite? No. Because I know it will not have the same aging potential compared to all the other salons I know.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:17

Ben, I want to ask you this very specific question. And because there's a lot of people who may be interested, not about champagne, but if I if do you do you have companies there who would potentially white label the champagne if if somebody wanted to have their own vintage or their own label, how does that work?

SPEAKER_00 1:26:44

You need to know where you're going, what you're doing, and with who you're talking. Because number one, champagne is so controlled by the CIBC, by the Committee of Champagne. They are the rulers. Okay, you cannot do just whatever you want, whenever you want. So you need to win those guys over first. Yes, you need to first start with them, then you need to have your own name, then you have your own ID number, which is not easy to get. Then only you can talk about I would like to have something.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:18

So even if you're not uh a French national, is it possible to get that number? Or it takes a long time.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:26

No, no, no. It is it is possible, it is possible because each number will be different based on the code, and that's very specific. That's very, very specific. If you have like an what we call an RM Recotant manipulant code, that means you are literally growing your own grape, you're not purchasing any grape from anywhere, and you are bottling your own champagne at your domain and selling them. It is the most difficult to get. RM. It is the most difficult, the most difficult. Because there is no way around. Okay. It's very clear. Then you will have the NM, which is negotiant manipulant. That means okay, you can have your own grape. And this is what all the houses has as a num as a code number. Any name you want, from Laurent Perrier, Dom Perignon, Moet, you name it. They all have a code starting with NM. Okay. Negotiant manipulant, that means they have their own field, but they are able to purchase grape from anywhere they want.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:36

Within Champagne.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:37

Within Champagne.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:38

Always within Champagne.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:41

This one, I will say it's hard to get, but it will take you time. And the CIBC are very particular on giving those codes because they have literally quotas. Then you will have Grandmark, you will have like different codes where it's much more easier. And even if you ask, hey, um, you know what? I want my nice bottle of champagne and I want my logo on it, you can. You can. We are doing it here. You go to a restaurant like Takaisa, Takaisa, they probably have their own nice bottle of Henri Giro with Takaisa name on it. And there is no problem. We've done it for Takaisa for many other places. So depending on what you want to do, at what level, there is always rules you need to respect. But it's possible.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:33

And do do you see that being part of the business here or some type of development that you could do here with? Because I imagine that you have a lot of private investors also, because there are some rather large houses, and you know, you have people throwing all sorts of nice dinner parties and that sort of thing. So I can imagine that you have some some quite good private investors who would potentially want to do that, or as you said, restaurants.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:00

Behind the scene, we're working a lot on a lot of projects, and to without revealing any secret, sure, it's it's it's it's there. We're getting there.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:09

Okay, good to know. And we before we get into the the quick fire questions, Ben, I want to understand. You've travelled all over the world, you've eaten in some of the very best restaurants, but when it comes to the dining scene here in the Middle East and more specifically in the UAE, what are your thoughts?

SPEAKER_00 1:30:35

It has improved a lot. A lot. But the thing I always loved in Dubai is the quality of the food has always been there. Quality and hygiene, those are elements that you cannot say anything wrong about this place. I know those guys, they have a lot of control, you cannot mess around, and the government has done an amazing job at that. And I've been in Dubai for the last 16 years. Never got a food poison. Never. And I know that no matter which restaurant I go, at least the quality is always there. Now, in terms of experience, culinary, I think the last four years has bring something completely different. We are changing the game. And we are literally, I think, now challenging some of the biggest capital in the world where we are on the path to have like the most amazing restaurant. I mean, look at Tracy's Studio. Yeah. It's probably one of my best examples because I've been knowing Tracey's Studio since they were on Chelsea, going in this small room, seeing like Evan Vipin or other people, and you're just like, what a journey.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:59

And I've been following them from zero to one to two to three.

SPEAKER_03 1:32:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:03

And again, every time you're like, they cannot surprise me. They cannot surprise me. Here we go. Yes. They did it again.

SPEAKER_03 1:32:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:09

And it's beautiful to see that because for me, they are probably the best example I can name. They are a baby of Dubai. And they are born here and they evolved here. They didn't not like, I love FZN, uh Amazing Beyond it. I mean, it it's the experience is fantastic. But again, I have a soft spot for Tristan because I saw them growing. I saw the growth over the years, and it literally again synced with how Dubai, the UAE, has grown in terms of like culture, foodies culture. It's it's weird to think about it, but when you think back, you're like, okay, when did it really start it? How it started. You had amazing restaurants. I mean, LPM has always been solid. For like a French restaurant, wow, I mean, after like I think 14 years, yeah, the quality has never changed, like a blink. It's always been like solid. You have like people, take it like simple Zuma. I mean, this those are like all the restaurants where we've been here long enough to be like, oh, when I was, when I'm craving for like a nice good food, where do I go? It was always the same places. Now the culture has changed. Now I mean Rouen 45 is beautiful. Uh the Takahisa, to be honest, is beautiful. You have like so many places, I cannot name everyone, but it's like now you can take like the roulette, turn it, and be like, okay, tonight I'm going to voila. Yeah, exactly. There we go.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:51

But for yourself, how does it feel to be part of that growth? Because the one thing I always say on this show when we speak to guests is that Dubai, specifically Dubai, is it's the culinary capital of the Middle East, but it seems to be growing at such a fast pace, and you have to be the type of person to be able to stay on that level. But a company like yours, which is so young, right? So young, but the fact that you've managed to achieve all of these things, how does it feel for you?

SPEAKER_00 1:34:30

I'll be very, very honest with you. I don't feel it. And I think that's the real success. It's you just keep going, doing your best to answer every single request, the number of sommelier messages I got per day. It's literally insane. And even like at midnight, I'm like, okay, oh my god. But this is what they were missing. Someone, I'm not saying 24 hours 7, 7, but someone that can answer your question or help you and guide you. And I think this is probably the biggest time consumption there, but I cannot help it. I cannot let someone down. This is not on my DNA, this is not where I am and who I am. I have to. It's like I've been there, I know how it feels. So even if I don't have the answer for you straight away, let me give me a few hours, I will get you the answer. So again, it's you don't feel it because you are passionate. You only feel it when your body lets you down. When after like you will have talked to me in December, I was a zombie.

SPEAKER_03 1:35:56

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:56

I had like even like friends, good friends, somebody that were like, Ben, we usually see you like energy, and for the first time we see you like a bit tired. I'm like, it's a heavy season. Yes, it's been a hell of a year, but so many things has happened, so many things have developed. And I was like, you know what? I'm going to do my cutoff. My last dinner was at Maison d'Ali on the 20th of December, and I was like, 21st? Done. I'm taking like two weeks off. What a mistake. What a mistake. Woo takes off during Christmas and New Year's season. Woo. Good lesson. Good lesson. Yeah, I fooled myself literally.

SPEAKER_02 1:36:40

But in your company, I mean, you know, you must be growing at quite a pace. Do you do you have people you know that you're trying to sort of educate or potential similiars or who could come into the business and also help you?

SPEAKER_00 1:36:53

100%. 100%. And this is the next step. Um, we are growing, we are bringing slowly, slowly more people. And I think the best people will be people from the industry that are passionate, that understand wine, champagne, and you need to realize that you are in a business where you cannot count your hours, you cannot be just I'm going to do like a nine to five, go home and chill. Yeah, that doesn't happen. And you are also literally need to tell to yourself this is not something that will get you rich. And that's where I think for Dubai people they want to go fast, they want to grow quick, and they want to learn a lot fast. But thing that you need to understand in the wine industry, it's tough. It's tough. Remember, I went from like 12 months to one month. And that's the thing you need to explain to the people that sometimes want to join a company, especially when you're a startup. We are startup. It's not something that you're going to gain straight away. And you need to make a sacrifice at the beginning, but the reward, and we see it with Champavin and Champ Smart, the sky's the limit. If we have a limit, very good. We are going to change the market with everything that we have aligned and planned. It's it's huge. It's huge.

SPEAKER_02 1:38:30

We've now come to the quick fire round. First of all, I know that you're not a chef, but you are a gastronomo. So can you tell me your favorite ingredient, please?

SPEAKER_00 1:38:42

Ingredient? Um are we talking about spices?

SPEAKER_02 1:38:47

Are we talking about it's up to you, but you tell me what you really need.

SPEAKER_00 1:38:52

If I can put fish on my plate, I'm the happiest.

SPEAKER_02 1:38:56

Any type any type of fish?

SPEAKER_00 1:38:58

White fish. Okay. And I would say more specifically cod.

SPEAKER_02 1:39:06

Oh, very good. Okay, love it. Are you sweet or salty?

SPEAKER_00 1:39:12

Sweet.

SPEAKER_02 1:39:12

Spicy or pickled?

SPEAKER_00 1:39:15

Spicy.

SPEAKER_02 1:39:16

Baguette or croissant.

SPEAKER_00 1:39:21

You know, this is like national oh whoa whoa. Okay. Croissant. Because I can make a very good sandwich with a croissant.

SPEAKER_02 1:39:29

Okay, okay. Uh snails or frogs legs?

SPEAKER_00 1:39:33

Snails.

unknown 1:39:34

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:39:35

Now, from in in this very moment right now, what would you say are your top three favorite cuisines to eat?

SPEAKER_00 1:39:46

Japanese, Thai, French.

SPEAKER_02 1:39:49

Oh. So normally us Europeans, I would say, they're not great with spice. So how are you with because you said Thai?

SPEAKER_00 1:39:59

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:40:00

But and I know that you went to Mexico.

SPEAKER_00 1:40:02

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:40:02

And these guys are having jalapeno chili on their eggs.

SPEAKER_00 1:40:06

Oh on the beer.

SPEAKER_04 1:40:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:40:08

On the loadie police. But that's another topic. So you must love spice. Mild. I mean, just a touch, just to give you a little kick. Okay. I don't want to numb my palate. I don't want to be like running nose and just like wasabi for me. It's not spicy, but you know, when you have like this little like a little horse drand mustard.

SPEAKER_02 1:40:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:40:31

Yeah. That like mustard is.

unknown 1:40:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:40:34

I was gonna say, I was gonna, you know, maybe I should ask you, or we'll have a separate conversation about pairing Mexican and Thai food with champagne.

SPEAKER_00 1:40:41

You know, yeah, tough, tough, tough, tough, very tough.

SPEAKER_02 1:40:45

Now, who would you say then are your top three food heroes, but they don't necessarily need to be chefs. Number one, my mum. Of course.

SPEAKER_00 1:41:00

Then I will say Chef Imanschou.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:07

Oh by far.

SPEAKER_00 1:41:09

By far. Sorry for the other ones. Um and then there is a small, nice restaurant in France. Uh that will be like yeah, my small, nice little cantine. But this is more like just how do you resource yourself? Oh nice. Okay, love that.

SPEAKER_02 1:41:31

Love that. Now, from all of your years of travel within oil and gas and and you know, within hospitality industry, there's always some sort of funny incident that happens. So can you tell me your funniest either kitchen or restaurant incident that you have seen or maybe been involved in?

SPEAKER_00 1:41:56

I'll probably say Mexico. Probably say Mexico because there was always barrier language at the beginning.

SPEAKER_01 1:42:04

Of course.

SPEAKER_00 1:42:05

And you end up with nice, we're talking about spices. And it was always like you have the green sauce, the red sauce, the orange sauce, the black sauce.

SPEAKER_02 1:42:19

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:42:20

And then they will tell you, like, yeah, it's it's nice. And you go, and the first thing you realize it's those guys they eat super spicy. So my most incident was probably having like a tongue completely burned because I pick a sauce that I said like that's completely inoffusive, it's like a green sauce. But I realized then you have like the sauce with like some little black dots, and this is the most dangerous chili they can put, and that is the biggest lesson learned incident. And from now, I always like pick a little bit and just try. Okay. Because oh my god, uh, like uh burning, like you stay with a tongue that is burned for like not hours, like a day. I mean, I know that that was the biggest uh incident probably I had in a restaurant, and I mean you're talking about small, uh small thing, but it's yeah, but it's a good lesson, good lesson, very good lesson, yeah. The level of spice.

SPEAKER_02 1:43:30

Now, what advice would you give to champagne amateurs, somebody who doesn't know too much, but they want to begin to understand it?

SPEAKER_00 1:43:41

I think there is um different level. You start with the classic champagne houses. This is how you grow up, this is what you know the best, and this is the label where you go with. And then you have in the between some producer that make that bridge between house is champagne and I will call it terroir, like grower champagne. Because if you go straight to the grower champagne, you might not understand it, and it might be either maybe too complex or you will not get it. So you have like a wrench in the between that I feel like they are putting the bridge, and this is what we're doing today with one of the producers, um, Henri Giraud, they are very good at that. They are like very super boutique niche, they produce quite a lot, but we are not talking about like the biggest champagne house with 33 million bottles per year. We're talking about a production of like 300,000 bottles. And the profile flavor makes you want to go and discover more into let's say single variety, single plot, yeah, 100% Chardonnay, 100% Pinot Noir, Reblan de Noir, uh lower dosage, uh 100% oak barrel, uh things that you will not get adventurous, but you will feel like, oh wow, oh wow. And what I love most of the time, the reaction is this champagne? Because people, they were used to have like a certain profile of champagne. Yes, that when you change them, you tweak just a little bit, it's a new aromatic profile. And they feel like, oh my god, I didn't know champagne can be like this. And that's where you start getting the attention of people. And then only then you're like, let's continue the journey. And now I'm going to make you discover what is a single village. It's this. Now you want to get like more adventurous, ultra, like nearly. Now we're going to drink a single plot, single variety, single year, in oak barrel or zero sugar. Brute nature.

SPEAKER_04 1:46:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:46:08

This is where you see the true color of the soil. Literally, you close your eyes, you are in the middle of the vineyard. Wow. And this is all available now here, where it was not the case three years ago. So now you want to, I love to call it, you want to travel in Champagne with a menu. And this is always the advice I give to a sommelier when they're like, Ben, what do you think about my Champagne list? I'm like, it's all over the place. If I look at your list, yes, now you have different producer, but it doesn't make me travel. I want to go from the north of Champagne to the southeast part of Champagne. And in the between, you give me access to everything. So one day I want to try the village of Murphy with Charton Taillet. The other day I want to go to the Marne Valley, I want to try Novak. The other day I want to go to Côte des Blancs, I want to try uh Pierre Vince uh Robert Moncuit. And now I want to go to South of Champagne, the really, really south of Champagne limit to Burgundy, and I want to try the beautiful Cédric Bouchard. This is where you make your journey. Because I always say to the student and to the members, I can teach you only that much, then you make your own journey. Because I love to do always this exercise at the end of a tasting. Which champagne did you enjoy? There is never, ever, ever a single champagne that everybody liked. It's always I like number one, I like number three, I like number four. You have your answer.

SPEAKER_02 1:47:55

Beautiful.

SPEAKER_00 1:47:56

And when people ask me what is your favorite champagne, this is the most complex question because I'm always like, it's when, how, and with who. Only when I have those three elements I'll go in my cellar and be like, I want this.

SPEAKER_02 1:48:15

Love that. Now the final question is what advice would you give to your 16-year-old self?

SPEAKER_00 1:48:32

It's a very, very hard question. Very, very hard question, but as much as I would like to say, I would say just close your eyes and keep going. Keep going. Because even when I was 16, I was pretty much the same person I'm today. Like keep your feet on the ground, respect people, and do what you love the most. I've been very bad with the word no. Many times I had people or management or they're like, no, it's not possible. No. This is probably the word I hate the most. Because I still believe that there is always remember, problem solver? There's always a way. Always a way. Always a way. But you need to be respectful. It's very important. And usually, usually, if you're respectful, if you listen to people, there is a there is a way.

SPEAKER_02 1:49:42

Ben, if people wanted to sign up for your membership, so if they wanted to know a bit more, how can they find out?

SPEAKER_00 1:49:48

Number one, I will highly suggest to go and find me on Instagram, BenChampaign. One word with S at Champagne. Perfect. Very easy. And then you can go to www.champagne Smart.com. And here and there you have everything about education, travel, members, and that's the best way. And you can always contact us, send us some a message, and it's super, super well done. The website.

SPEAKER_02 1:50:22

So what I will do is when we publish, I'll put all of those details into the show notes. So just to make sure that everybody will contact you.

SPEAKER_00 1:50:30

Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 1:50:30

Ben, on behalf of the Chef JKP podcast, I just wanted to say it's been absolutely fascinating to talk to you about yourself and to learn all things about oil and gas, diplomacy, and of course, champagne. Thank you. Really, um, I've learned a huge amount, and I know that the audience will. Thank you so very much for taking the time to be here.

SPEAKER_00 1:50:52

You're most welcome, and it's been uh an honor. I love to call it This Is the Untold Story, because you're probably the first show where I'm sharing all those information. I'm usually very discreet, but it's a pleasure. It's a really, really big pleasure to do that with you. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 1:51:12

I really enjoyed that conversation. Ben, thank you for sharing your passion for champagne and all things hospitality. It was an amazing insight into a world that I never really thought about. It's always been there, but never highlighted from a personal or a professional perspective. I hope you guys also took away a few key points from our chat. There was a lot to take away. Well, if you want to see more of what Ben is doing, head over to the show notes. To everyone watching or listening, if you've enjoyed this episode and you want to support us, well, a few things that you can do. First of all, share away. Share to absolutely everyone and anyone you know. And they don't need to be in the industry, actually. You know, these conversations are about learning and inspiring people. At the same time, you can give us a five-star review on any podcast platform as it helps to get more eyes onto the show. Equally, a massive thank you to Valrona for supporting us and making this content possible. Go and check them out. And lastly, pick up one of our amazing Thermos Flasks. They keep your drinks hot and cold, and they're pretty stunning too. You can purchase those in the show notes. Go and check them out. I love them. And lots of other people do. I think. Well, that's what they say. Well, gang, thank you for staying on until the very, very end of the show. You absolute legend. Chef JKP, signing out. Until next time. Food is memories.