What The Kitchen Taught him About Leadership | Glen Ballis (E167)

Chef JKP sits down with Glen Ballis, chef, restaurateur, and one of the most influential figures in modern hospitality.

Glen shares his journey from a Greek family in Melbourne to leading kitchens across Thailand, Indonesia, China, Russia, and Dubai. He reflects on the chefs who shaped him, the lessons that came from failure, and how different cultures transformed the way he cooks and leads.

They talk about opening restaurants, surviving financial crises, building teams, the realities of running hospitality businesses, and why great food will always be about product, simplicity, and people.

This is a conversation about resilience, leadership, travel, and a lifetime spent chasing great food.

WHAT YOU WILL HEAR IN THIS EPISODE

• Growing up in a Greek household and the food memories that shaped him
• Why a dream of becoming a professional cricketer led him into kitchens
• The tough lessons learned in Australia's restaurant industry
• Moving to Thailand and the leadership mistake that changed his career
• Building restaurants across Asia and adapting to different cultures
• Opening concepts in Moscow and spending more than two decades in Russia
• The philosophy behind INA and cooking with fire in Dubai
• Why chef-led restaurants and great produce are the future of hospitality

CHAPTERS

03:31 Childhood food memories, Greek family traditions and his mother's cooking
11:58 From aspiring cricketer to finding his place in professional kitchens
17:52 Moving to Thailand and the leadership lesson that changed everything
27:31 Indonesia, Malaysia and how Asia shaped his cooking style
37:31 Moscow, Novikov and building a career in Russia
47:03 Financial crises, sanctions and the rise of local produce
56:34 Why he moved to Dubai and the philosophy behind INA
01:15:15 Masters of Fire, the future of restaurants and chef-led hospitality
01:29:29 Quick fire round
01:41:05 Advice for young chefs entering the industry

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Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

That's right. The podcast is now on YouTube. So you can watch all of the interviews at your leisure. At the same time, your contribution to the show by hitting that subscribe button makes a monumental difference to the show, as we can keep inviting the guests you love and keep having the conversations that no one else is having. The only thing that I ask is that you share the show. Welcome to the ChefJKP podcast with me, James Knight Pacheco. Culinary brothers and sisters, or foodie disciples, this is the place where you will find your solace, a place of worship for all things that combine us together. The common thread that brings us around the table. Food and memories. Wherever you are in the world, whatever you're doing, I ask that you sit back and listen and perhaps take away a few morsels of advice. There will be laughter, we're gonna get serious. Above all, lessons for life. You're listening to the Chef JKP podcast, and this is what you can expect on today's show.

SPEAKER_01 1:13

People still come to me and say you need to make your food more Instagrammable. It's fucking stars. Fuck you.

SPEAKER_02 1:20

Right.

SPEAKER_03 1:21

Can you tell me one of your funniest incidents that you've seen or been involved in?

SPEAKER_01 1:28

I think I was 17 years old. I was working in a Greek restaurant and we were making like this tomato soup, almost like a gazpacho. The owner comes in Tyson and goes, Oh, that's nice. He said, put it in the fridge. So I grab it, and it was like a huge big mayonnaise container. Of course it breaks, falls on the ground. I go in to try to pick it up and I slide over whatever you see on Instagram with a chef. That actually happened to me. I was 17 years old.

SPEAKER_03 1:53

What advice would you give to a 16-year-old Glenn and Bengals?

SPEAKER_01 1:58

And I was a dumb fuck like a lot of the other chefs at that age and made a lot of mistakes and things like that.

SPEAKER_03 2:04

You know, but um hello my friends, and a very warm welcome back to the Chef JKP podcast. We have come to the penultimate episode, and it is an absolute banger. But before we dive in, if you haven't already, please do not forget to hit that all-important subscribe button on YouTube, or that's right, you can press follow wherever you get your podcasts, as it helps us to grow the show and keep on bringing you the most fascinating conversations with the most inspirational guests. That's all we will ever ask of you. Well, today's guest is someone who truly left his mark on the global hospitality industry. Now, when you hear that a chef has opened more than fifty restaurants around the world, you know you're about to hear something incredible. Chef Glenn Bayliss is one of the most experienced and respected chefs in the industry. Having built restaurant concepts across multiple countries and also culinary cultures, we catch and discuss a whole load of incredible topics. Opening one restaurant is hard, but 50, that is on another completely different stratosphere. We're going to be also diving into Glenn's career, the lessons he's learnt along the way, and what it takes to build restaurants around the world. Listen up for a story about meeting a president. Time to rock and roll. Just before we begin, here is a small message from this week's guest.

SPEAKER_01 3:58

Hello, my name is Glenn Ballas. I'm a cook. If you like the podcast, make sure you follow, share, and subscribe.

SPEAKER_03 4:08

Glenn, a very warm welcome to the show. Now, as is customary, can you tell me your first or favourite childhood food memory, please?

SPEAKER_01 4:20

I would say that, you know, like most good chefs, it comes from the mother. So it was no different with mine, you know, with uh coming from a Greek background. Um there were two memories for me which stick to speak to m really stick to my mind, and that's um when mum used to bake her own bread, and um back in those days the the heating uh we didn't really have central heating, we sort of like had mobile heaters, and in beds we had um uh electric blankets. So mum used to prop up the the blanket, turn on the electric blanket to full, and let the bread prove yeah, inside there. So we're constantly, I remember constantly going it to check to see what was moving and what wasn't moving in it, and then especially after baking it, of course, obviously the smell went through the house. So that was the first one, and that bread that she was cooking was a Greek festive bread. So it was basically done during um um, you know, the festive periods, whether it be Easter or Christmas or Orthodox celebrations and things like that. Um, you know, the other one was when I used to come home from school, where we lived, was uh, you know, in the suburbs of out of the center. And um as soon as you got to the gate, I'd always understand what was on for dinner because of the smell that used to come out. Because when you walked in through the through the side gate and walked up the walked through the front yard, you would that's where the kitchen was, and that's where sort of mum spent most of her time. So, you know, and that particular time in Melbourne as well, where I was brought up was um, you know, predominantly uh Greek, Italian, and Chinese pubs. That's that's basically where you ate out. So, you know, spending a lot of time obviously, and whenever we went out, we'd be eating in either one of those restaurants, you know, that style of food.

SPEAKER_03 6:19

So I want to just sort of take you back a little bit. So if you sort of explain to me, we'll imagine on a on a on a traditional family day, let's say, because you know you've got quite quite a nice mix and background. What would be the traditional spread on the table if it was to be a sort of family feast, let's say?

SPEAKER_01 6:42

No, it was it was predominantly Greek food. You know, lamb with orzo and tomato, spanacopita, um, uh a lot of salads, dips, a lot of a lot from the barbecue as well. One of the brothers, one of my brothers would go out and barbecue. The older brother would go out and barbecue, either lamb or whatever, chicken on the grill. So it was basically a full spread of everything. And we didn't really drink a lot of alcohol. It was not a family which was um encircled in alcohol, it was just it was all about the food.

SPEAKER_03 7:15

And and how many were in the family? So your older brother?

SPEAKER_01 7:18

Yeah, so there's five of us, right? And plus mum. Okay. And then, of course, there would be girlfriends and boyfriends and children and that sort of thing that over the time sort of like it built up to you know, enormous sizes sometimes, you know. Mum was constantly extending the table to fit us all on. And and were you sort of more involved in the kitchen or were you more involved in the hosting? Or no, no, no, I was the younger, I'm the youngest. So, you know, I was involved in the eating.

SPEAKER_03 7:48

Right.

SPEAKER_01 7:48

You know, and um it's sort of like everybody else would, you know, they're all they they used to sort of lead the way in in everything that went on there. But I just remember we'd go in there, it's chaos, a lot of yelling and a lot of screaming, you know, as you do with most families, you know. Um, and then everybody would find a corner and pass out and sleep afterwards for an hour. You know, so that was it means it was good. Yeah, no, very good. Yeah, great food. Yeah, I remember I'm incredible. Mum was an incredible cook. And she used to make a philo pastry by herself. She used to put the tablecloth, she used to put a tablecloth on top of the table and hand roll it. And one would be savory, one would be with cheese, one would be with spinach and cheese, and then she'd make one with um with pumpkin, with the sweet pumpkin and cinnamon. It was just it was it was incredible. When I think about it now, it's kind of like what we try to do in our restaurants, right? Is basically what she was doing at home, the biscuits she was making, the curing and the marinating, and and and and the process that that she went to produce food for us on a daily basis, is basically what we try to educate our young chefs to do in our kitchens now. It's incredible.

SPEAKER_03 9:03

No, I mean it sounds fantastic, really. But then if you go into your sort of high school era, you know, you you know, I can imagine you must have had quite a well-honed-in palate because your mother was uh, you know, a fantastic cook, as you say. But then what were the sort of foods that you were having in sort of high school or or with your friends if you were hanging out?

SPEAKER_01 9:27

Well, it was it, you know, it was anything, anything local. Look, at that particular time it was um uh and Australia was quite a racist country. As I'm sure back in those days it was, you know. So the basically we you know, I was nicknamed a WOG, and uh that was a nickname for either a Greek or Lebanese or Italian, we were WOGs. We just we weren't like the others, right? And um, so everything we did in in front of our friends um was to try not to replicate where we're from. So I would go and eat a meat pie, a burger, I'd have a Coca-Cola, anything that that would fit into the mainstream of of surrounded by my friends. Right. Unless of course I was with other wogs. And then of course then we would eat whatever we wanted to eat, because it was we were sort of like let off the leash a little bit at that time. So to get home and to eat the food that mum was cooking was just that's what that's what I was thinking of.

SPEAKER_03 10:28

And can I ask you, Glenn, if um if you sort of reflect back on that time, and let's say you had some some high school friends who let's say were Australian, Australian and uh you know they were coming back to to your house and and having those sorts of beautiful Greek dishes. They must have enjoyed them, no?

SPEAKER_01 10:51

No, of course they did. Of course, you know i i it's only natural to enjoy it. But it's not, you know, it's you know, the peer group is yeah, you know, the pressure that comes from that environment is is totally uh it's a different kettle of fish altogether. Right.

SPEAKER_03 11:07

You know, so but but you still I mean, I'm sure you still found your way in to sort of uh try and be as friendly as you possibly could with everyone, right?

SPEAKER_01 11:17

Yeah, of course. Played football, Australian rules football, the rugby cricket. I did all those things, tennis to sort of fit into the to the environment, which I did, you know, but there was always that factor.

SPEAKER_03 11:29

Right.

SPEAKER_01 11:29

You know, that always sat on the side. But then So if I got a nickname, for example, if I got a nickname, yeah, it wouldn't be a nickname which was um a named after it would be named after like um my name's Glenn Ballis. So at the cricket club they used to call me Sevi after the Balasteros, uh after the golfer, you know what I mean? So there was there's always something yeah, it wouldn't be after Jack Smith. Right, right, right. But it never affected me, and it wasn't until as I got older that I think about these things.

SPEAKER_03 11:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:56

At that particular time it was normal.

SPEAKER_03 11:58

But it was banter, I suppose, back then.

SPEAKER_01 12:00

Yeah, you know, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 12:02

Um and for yourself, throughout you know, all of the high school or college time, was you know, I want to understand your journey into professional cookery because was that something you you you leaned towards through through high school or or were you working in hospitality beforehand?

SPEAKER_01 12:21

No, no, I just sort of got to the end of it and I wanted to actually the dream was to be a professional cricketer. Right. So I was playing at quite a good level. Um and I wasn't doing so well at school, and I think the only reason why they sort of kept me around was because of the cricket during the schooling, you know, during the tournaments and things like that. I was pr you know, relatively you know, predominant, not a world beater, but I was sort of in there.

SPEAKER_00 12:51

Right.

SPEAKER_01 12:52

Um and I needed to sort of get uh I I I wanted myself to get out of that schooling environment, the educational environment. So an opportunity came up um to work in a restaurant and and that's where it all started. And that was in Melbourne? That was in Melbourne, yeah, that was in Melbourne. And that was I think I don't think 82, 83. So it was a long time ago. And it was um not not at that particular time there were great restaurants and then everything else. And um I was fortunate fortunate enough to land into a couple of good places which sort of educated me. Some in a positive way in the kitchen, and some in a in a negative way personally. So there was a lot of um, you know, I had to get a couple of paths there which I took, but in in term in terms of developing me in the kitchen, there were I was lucky to land in good places. Of course, there was periods of time where you lose your way at that age, it doesn't matter who you are, you know what I mean? So I lost my way, you know, during periods of that ear early days there, but I managed to sort of come back again and sort of land in a good place. There's a good leader there, the chef, you know, takes a liking to you, and you and you follow what he says almost like a father figure, and um, that's what it is, that's basically what we do. That's why the young guys come and work for us, is because almost we're like father figures to them, and um so that's that's basically been that journey in the beginning.

SPEAKER_03 14:33

And at no point, uh you know, whilst you were in the sort of restaurant industry, or especially the first couple of years, did you was it something that you wanted to educate yourself more in terms of going to college at all, or was it just pure learning on the job?

SPEAKER_01 14:51

No, I understood that if I wanted to grow in the industry, but it was in those early days I didn't really understand um, you know, 17, 18, 19, you don't under you don't know anything. And um, but there was a period, you know, I had to go and do a uh an apprenticeship because everybody else did an apprenticeship. So it's four years. You sort of you work full-time, and then there's an allocation every year which a government sponsors, uh, where you have to go to college. Or you go on a weekly or a monthly basis. And I basically I had a full-time job and then went uh for a period, I think it was maybe a month or six weeks, maybe two months, I can't remember off the off the top of my head, where I'd go and you'd go to the class and they'd teach you to cook. But actually, by the time we got to college, I was already or or I already basically had a year and a half two years experience, so I knew how to cut. So the college thing was more um I guess it was more um a certificate than than than actual education for me. But at that particular time I did and and also you I met a lot of good people at the time as well, which opened other doors for me in the future and things like that. So um you know, I suppose that's it's a big circle that that we get involved in when we're doing things like that.

SPEAKER_03 16:18

And after you qualified, so and I imagine so you were in Melbourne for the for four years during that apprenticeship in the same restaurant or did you move around?

SPEAKER_01 16:27

Uh I stayed in one restaurant predominantly for um you know three, four years, and then after that it was a bit of moving around. I sort of um had to get out of where I was, and uh, you know, I was constantly trying to search for something which was as good as that. Yeah, but it now, you know, the grass I tell everybody that I know the grass is never greener. So in hindsight, maybe I should have stuck it out for another two years, and it was quite an aggressive, uh, aggressive environment during that time. So, and I think that I inherited a lot of that aggression. And I said to you earlier that there were two parts which I learned how to cook, and it was a very good school of cooking, but there was also a certain level of aggression which I had taken on both uh as I worked and also in my personal life. So it was um it took me a long time to drop that. Cooking kept developing, but aggression was controlling everything, right? Yeah, and you know that you've been in kitchens, you know how it works.

SPEAKER_03 17:27

Yeah, so it's not but it's not easy because also you're right. I mean, you know, you you're you're sort of pushing yourself to work at a very, very high level. There's stress, you know, as you said, you have that father figure that you sort of look towards, and and the kitchen environment is aggressive, everybody's trying to prove something to each other, and um, it can manifest in in quite a negative way, as you said, whether it's professionally or personally, it can, it's it's very uh it can be it can be tough.

SPEAKER_01 17:54

And I got absorbed in that. So and it controlled me a lot, both personally and um in in the in the works, and and it was like it wasn't actually till I got to Thailand that I understood that I needed to change my ways or that or I it wasn't gonna work for me.

SPEAKER_03 18:13

So, how was that journey then from from going from Australia? You know, you you're working in that environment, your family, your friends are there, uh work, family, but then how did you sort of land a job in Thailand?

SPEAKER_01 18:29

Um I got a it was through uh uh uh another chef who called me and said, Listen, I know um at that particular time I'd moved to the Sunshine Coast, and um I'd sort of I was at the cr uh at a crossroads, which we often are, you know, during those periods of time. It was just one of those crossroads times where I was in where I was sitting there. It doesn't matter what would have fallen around me, I would have considered it at the time.

SPEAKER_03 19:06

So, Glenn, just for anyone who doesn't know that sort of area of Australia, if we say Melbourne, I mean, as we know now, Melbourne is the sort of culinary melting pot of Australia. Of cultural Australia. So the the Sunshine Coast is where, or would you call it the Gold Coast?

SPEAKER_01 19:23

Yeah, well, you go up to the Gold Coast, which is the northeast, and then a little bit further up, maybe an hour and a half, two hours uh even north. So it's on the northeast coast of Australia, so it's all beaches, so it was all about I went up there surfing, a good life, um, it was affordable, it was um there was uh job opportunities, it was it was developing, it was way behind culinary-wise compared to Melbourne and Sydney, but it was a it was um it was a developing state.

SPEAKER_03 19:57

And when you went up there, were you sort of getting uh let's say supervisory or I mean chef de party roles, or were you going some more junior manager, like junior sous chef head chef type roles?

SPEAKER_01 20:09

Yeah, I think it was more of a chef de cuisine executive sous chef roles and started off sort of sort sort of you know, the senior but sort of sort of semi-senior positions. Um there was always a person sort of above above me for periods of time, and and and during that period of time there was not chefs above me till I sort of broke out and and sort of did my own thing. But how it all sort of happened for me originally was I moved up to the Sunshine Coast and had always had a dream um to open my own restaurant. So I did. It was called Mango Tango. It was a little a little hut basically on the beach uh in Malulabar. What sort of food? Um it was like um it was it basically what I cook now is like a modern comfort food with a twist. I still and I still do that sort of food now. And uh a lot of hospitality people, a lot of general managers, a lot of um uh people in in the industry would would frequent the restaurant regularly. And you know, it was rolling along very nicely, and then we we got hit by the um um what do you call it? Uh an S an air strike. It was one of the biggest air air airline strikes in Australia. And basically tourism went from from this to this, like that. So there was people on the street one week and the next week that was just cats and dogs, do you know what I mean? And and just a few locals running around, but it was a pretty tough time. So, you know, inevitably we closed. You know, we sort of got to the stage where I was washing uh our own lawn our own tablecloths and napkins, and we sort of got a As far as we could, but it was just it was just collapsing, you know, by the month, by the week. It was just collapsing, collapsing. So it was a good experience. So you know, I got after that I got an opportunity to work for the Hyatt. And then it was basically through the Hyatt connections that I'd met there got me the opportunity to work to go overseas, which at the at the end of the day was the best decision that I made. It was a turning point for me.

SPEAKER_03 22:28

So that's what I wanted to ask you because as as you said, uh, and I you know I can also tell you from experience. When I when I first arrived here, I was fresh out of uh mission in London kitchens, and it was a very different environment there to coming to the Middle East. Uh so it was a bit of an education for me to to also change in that respect. And it was it was as what you said, it was one of the best things that ever happened to me. So when you went over there, where in Thailand did you land first of all? I landed in Phuket. Phuket, okay. So beautiful island. Yep. Uh really nice. Uh so the first job it was in a hotel?

SPEAKER_01 23:06

Yeah, at the Ben at the Banyantree. I went over there as head chef at the Banyantree Hotel in Phuket.

SPEAKER_03 23:12

So when you then got the job, beautiful property, uh, as you said, first time abroad. Did you know about the culture and the sort of respect with the ties and things like this?

SPEAKER_01 23:25

No.

SPEAKER_03 23:25

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 23:26

And that was that was the point. And you know where it's coming because I said it before, but you know.

SPEAKER_03 23:31

Because I was gonna say, you know, you have to manage a kitchen, yes, and but it's very different Australia to Thai.

SPEAKER_02 23:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:36

So so how was your first sort of you know, a few months?

SPEAKER_01 23:40

I'm freaking out in the middle of service, slipped into full freak out mode as we do. And um, I remember it was on a Friday night, and everything's gone quiet. And um I'm shuffling around doing my stuff and turned around, and I looked, and there was no one in the kitchen except one guy, and he's and he was a short, stocky little tie, a guy, and then and it was Mr. Black, that was his name. And he he he stayed there, but everybody else had gone because it was just too much for them. They couldn't handle it. And it was that particular time I realized that you know, it's either, you know, I need to be a little bit flexible here, or this is gonna be a tough job trying to do it on my own, yeah, you know, and I and I and I think the fact that I'm a Farang foreigner in that environment, um, then nobody's gonna come and work for me because the word of mouth will spread everywhere. Puket's a small, it's an island.

SPEAKER_03 24:43

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:44

You know, so there was I had to do some adjusting, and um it was uh that was a harsh, harsh lesson. So I spent a bit of a bit of time on my own, and you know, then eventually people started to come back and have trust in me and understood that I was maybe not doing it the right way, but I was trying to educate them in some form in terms of cooking, you know what I mean? But after we sort of, you know, I found a neutral ground, things started to develop for me quite quickly in the environment, you know. And uh the food started to progress and everything started to progress. So, you know, I I just wonder early days because I'd taken on so much of that aggression, was it holding me back? But I was too young. You know what it's like in these kitchens, you're in that environment. Maybe I was I I was I think I was too young to really purely understand.

SPEAKER_03 25:37

How old were you, Glenn, at that time?

SPEAKER_01 25:40

Um, when I I was twenty six.

SPEAKER_03 25:43

When you first went to to Thailand, yeah. So it is but it is young.

SPEAKER_01 25:47

Yeah, it is young. Yeah, you know. So I basically hadn't, you know, I've always had good hands, always think I I could always cook good food, even from early days. Um, of course, you know, I was a dumb fuck like a lot of the other chefs at that age and made a lot of mistakes and things like that, you know. But um I I could always cook and I could always put things on a plate, and I was a quick learner, fast. So there were certain pluses I had, um which helped me progress a little bit.

SPEAKER_03 26:20

And tell me, at that time, you know, once you'd sort of found your feet in in Phuket and that that restaurant, what uh again, different type of food, or were you still doing sort of more homely style, let's say, but with a twist or upmarket slightly? How how did it work?

SPEAKER_01 26:37

Yeah, so that was basically the the when I went to the Hyatt, which was on the Sunshine Coast in Coulomb, it gave me um an opportunity to be, I guess, it was well, it was creative within um a corporate environment. So, in other words, there was plenty of good products available. There was lots of good chefs around me, there was lots of good chefs coming and going. So it gave me an opportunity to sort of develop and see new things, and it was sort of I started to expand a bit there. So I took a certain level of that creativity to um to Phuket, but we were still doing, of course, traditional foods there, and then there was still um non-traditional foods, and that gave me an opportunity to continue that experimentation, and it was still modern comfort food with a twist, and I sort of haven't never moved away from that.

SPEAKER_03 27:36

But then, as you mentioned, as a as a Farana or as a foreigner, yeah. How was your your level of spice when you arrived in Thailand?

SPEAKER_01 27:45

Absolutely zero. I mean, you know, you've obviously spent some time there as well. So, you know, I thought I'd get a um the coconut soup, which looked really nice, Tom Kagay, they call it.

SPEAKER_03 27:55

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 27:56

With the chicken, and and I mean, it just uh the level of it it takes you a long, it takes you a while to adjust. It took me a while to adjust. But it's very complex, isn't it? Yeah, it very and and you understand their food is is complex in layers, yeah. So you've got saltiness, you've got spiciness, you've got uh sweetness, it's served either hot or you know, there's all fresh, raw, you know, there's um all different layers of flavour within Thai cuisine. It's incredible, an incredible cuisine.

SPEAKER_03 28:27

And and how long did you stay in in Phuket for? Six years? And where was the move after that then?

SPEAKER_01 28:39

Um I got promoted within the banyantry to corporate chef. So I ended up going to Indonesia to a banyantry in Bintan. And I spent it was an island, and and for me it was also good because there was surf right out the front. I lived on the beach. Nice, yeah. So it incorporated a lifestyle for me.

SPEAKER_03 29:00

And you changed by then, as in your managerial style?

SPEAKER_01 29:03

Yeah, I was still had uh the outbursts that we have in the kitchen. I call them the freak shows, but you know, where you can't control everything's just blurry. Um, you know, I still had those happening, but they were sort of less. But I was becoming more of a disciplinarian at that particular time. The discipline was very strong for me. Were you still cooking or were you doing a bit more sort of cooking? No, I was still I was still cooking. Right. Yeah, I was still cooking.

SPEAKER_03 29:36

And how different was the food? Oh, totally from Thailand to the city.

SPEAKER_01 29:39

Yeah, totally different. Totally different. The only advantage I had was it was in it was within the same group, and there was a Thai restaurant on the island. So some of the chefs that I had in Phuket came across and helped me cook in that particular restaurant. So in the in the small, it was like resorts. Nice. Yeah. So a few of them stayed with me. And um, but then there was Indonesian restaurants, and again there was Western restaurants where um it gave me the opportunity to continue to create my comfort food with a twist, you know what I mean? So um I've sort of like followed that sort of followed me around for many, many years.

SPEAKER_03 30:26

But it's also must have been uh quite uh a beautiful sort of education in a way where you you obviously have you know the Thai base, then you go to Malaysia and you know these other cooks that are sort of showing you the way in in what they do and also their culture as well.

SPEAKER_01 30:42

Yeah, and also there's a mixture of it as well, because you know, in between a lot of that, there was this Chinese influence and a lot of what was going on at that particular time. So it was yeah, it was educational for sure. And I think it stood me, you know, basically I had a reputation after I left Asia for a person that cooked Asian food. So that stuck with me for a while, but then I got to the stage where I didn't want to cook any more Asian food.

SPEAKER_03 31:06

You know, and um But is that because you wanted to challenge yourself a bit more?

SPEAKER_01 31:10

Yeah, yeah. You know, I had Greek blood. I wanted to, you know, maybe cook some modern Greek food in the in the style that I do, or a grill restaurant in the style which which I do, you know, so that was um I wanted to have more opportunities than just controlling uh restaurants that served Asian food. I love Asian food. If I have a first choice, I'd go and eat it, but it was just a period of time where I didn't want to cook it anymore.

SPEAKER_03 31:39

Right, okay.

SPEAKER_01 31:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 31:40

So then what happened for you to make that the initial move over to Russia?

SPEAKER_01 31:48

Uh I'd worked in I worked in Malaysia for a number of years, which was also incredible. I worked in Shanghai, um, which was also a good experience. Hard.

SPEAKER_03 32:01

Hard because uh again, the language bad.

SPEAKER_01 32:03

Bad language, yeah, and also, you know, I guess to some extent the mentality as well. But it was very, you know, I never really settled there. I was never settled. Just it just wasn't that free flowing. How long were you there for? Not quite two years, I think.

SPEAKER_03 32:23

Because you know, Shanghai is a metropolis, and it was a huge and it was a long time ago.

SPEAKER_01 32:28

So it was just I I I lived in Pudong. The hotel was in Pudong. So I used to drive along when all those big towers were empty. You could see the sun shining through the floors and there was they were empty. And now it's you know, of course it was the new Pud Pudong, not the old Pudong. Um so but I I never settled there. It just wasn't my it was interesting and I took a a lot of experience from it, but it just it didn't it wasn't satisfying. And you know, I think that when you've been cooking for a while, to be you you need to be satisfied per within, and I wasn't satisfied within.

SPEAKER_03 33:14

Can I ask I mean back then, how was the the the produce you were receiving? Um because you know, so were you working in in a in a hotel sitting or restaurants?

SPEAKER_01 33:24

And I was working all at that particular time it was all hotels. Right.

SPEAKER_03 33:27

And and which restaurants were you in charge of at the end of the restaurant?

SPEAKER_01 33:31

Well that was the executive chef. Right. So I was in charge of all of them. I don't know, there was 15 restaurants or something and big ballrooms which were doing you know, sometimes a hundred thousand people a day and that sort of thing, and you'd have a line of walks which was twenty walks in a row and then twenty steamers in a row.

SPEAKER_03 33:51

How was it for you to to manage you know a brigade of predominant Chinese chefs and and you're the one in charge, but also how how are you sort of managing managing to to you know communicate everything that's required?

SPEAKER_01 34:08

Yeah, it was difficult. Yeah. Just need to make sure you got the people around you that could speak some English and make sure the in information got passed. But I said to you that I didn't enjoy it, it wasn't comfortable, but there was a certain level of management learning that I received when I was in Malaysia, which was also a big operation, and in Shanghai, which was a huge operation, which took me in good stead when I got to Russia, and I didn't realize it at the time, but it wasn't until I got to Russia that I understood that that experience that I'd gained it was going to put me into where I was in that position there.

SPEAKER_03 34:50

So did you get headhunted uh to Russia or how did that work?

SPEAKER_01 34:54

Um, yeah, yeah. There was sort of there's um a a restaurateur called uh Katie Novakoff, who's got the Novakov here, and it's quite a big brand in London. Yes. Good man. And um how did you meet him? Uh through a f through a mutual friend. Oh, so got a telephone call. You wanna go? No, you want to go, no. And then we finally spoke. He didn't speak any English at the time, so any communication I had through him was through his wife.

SPEAKER_00 35:24

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 35:24

Nadia, yeah. So it was quite interesting. So I went ended up in Russia and to open a restaurant called Nadalli Vostok, which is called which is basically a translation of not far east. And um where in Russia? It was right in the centre, right in the centre of Moscow. It was, I'm not sure, maybe a 10-minute walk to the center of the Kremlin, in a in a main main area. But it's a beautiful area. Russia is beautiful. It's the one of the most beautiful countries, unbelievable country. And that's a deaf that's a different um story altogether. Is um the perception we have and the perception that we are given sometimes is not always accurate. You know, and um yeah, it was an incredible restaurant. So it was designed by uh Super Potato, which was they did the Zoomers and all those restaurants, very famous, crazy Japanese designers who are still quite predominant now. And it was a beautiful restaurant. Uh how many seats 220.

SPEAKER_03 36:42

Of course, it was quite a quite a big project.

SPEAKER_01 36:45

Yeah, and it was it was absolutely banging when we opened. And you understand at that particular time there was basically no Russian head chefs. It was all foreigners, so predominantly it was all Italians. Then you'd get, you know, the odd American here and there, maybe the odd Australian and New Zealander and that sort of thing. So there was no no Russian um chefs at the time, head chefs, all the staff were Russian.

SPEAKER_03 37:14

So again, you've obviously had you know the the the corporate training, let's say. Uh but I was never a corporate person. Sure, sure. But you had the what what I mean by that is that you you had the the corporate training in order to help you with the man management. Yeah, you know, uh how how to the the approachability, I would say, uh of of being able to manage people because again, um on the surface of things, you know, Russians are very cold and stern, but actually they're beautifully warm people, right? Yeah. Um and uh they just need to sort of like like anywhere, they just need to understand hierarchy and how it works and and what your vision is, right? So what was the the the type of cuisine you were doing in that restaurant?

SPEAKER_01 38:00

We were sort of um it was an Asian driven um but with Russian ingredients or or um loaded. No, at that particular time there was you could get whatever you liked. If I wanted barramundi from Australia, which I did, they'd fly it in for me. If I wanted the beef from Oklahoma, because it was a boutique beef that I read about that someone said it was an incredible beef, they'd fly it in, which I did. Um, vegetables from France and Italy, they'd fly it in.

SPEAKER_03 38:35

But food cost was not uh not an issue at that time.

SPEAKER_01 38:38

You could also understand that everything was so expensive at that time that I think that most of my main courses, um most of my appetizers were starting prices or a hundred bucks. And at that particular time the oil market was booming. So there was a shitload of money, you know, counting machines. There was no credit cards, it was cash. So there was just yeah, it was that sound they had clock clock clock clock clock clock clock.

SPEAKER_03 39:08

And central Moscow as well.

SPEAKER_01 39:09

I mean, it's uh very predominant area. Yeah, and it was the first open kitchen. It was really the first open fired kitchen in the country. So there was a lot of aspects about it.

SPEAKER_03 39:22

That must have been quite interesting for you though.

SPEAKER_01 39:24

Yeah, no, I go again, I was sort of lucky to let end up where I end up, and I've I've been quite like I said right in the beginning, I've always ended up with my feet maybe not always deep into the sand, but in the right direction. So then I've been able to sort of l lean on from there. And um it was it was an incredible experience for me. And had President Putin come to the restaurant, it's quite a famous story.

SPEAKER_03 39:53

Tell me about it.

SPEAKER_01 39:55

Am I allowed to?

SPEAKER_03 39:56

Yeah, of course. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 39:58

Um In Australia we don't we really don't give a shit about politicians and you know, at the end of the day, um it's just the mentality we have. Not the fact that they're politicians, but they're just you know, we don't really you know there was our level of education's about politics was basically zero, and mine was no different. So this place is packed. Music's loud like it is now. This is two thousand and six two thousand and seven. The place is packed. Again it's on a Friday night. And everything goes silent, but the music is still banging. And the place is quiet, but the music is still the people had stopped talking. Right. You know, like the the energy around the place. And and I'm sort of cooking around, it was an open kitchen, and I was sort of looking around, and people are standing up and looking, and President Putin walks into the restaurant, and over cough's there, and he obviously had security in there because people getting up from tables and guiding him in, which we didn't know, they were just like normal people. And um then he called me to the table, and um we spoke for I'm not sure, about maybe 15 or 20 minutes about yeah, about um Novokov had told him that I wanted to leave because I wasn't happy at the time. And he told me that it was going to be a different city. You have to be strong, maybe stronger than Russians to survive. You have to understand our culture, speak the language, take a Russian woman. There was a lot of things that we discussed over that very short period of time. And then I walked away from that and continued. I cooked barramundi for him. Tell me what do you like? What do you want to cook for me? Baromundi, get me a barramundi, get me this. And I cooked for him, and um but I walked away from that, and sort of at that time it was nothing to me. It was kind of like I had the president of Russia in. But it wasn't like if Mick Jagger was sitting there, there would have been a level of story. Yeah, a different story. Yeah, you know what I mean? And that's what I meant by a politician's when I first said that we don't really, you know, we didn't really have a lot to do with it. If a politician was um a cricket player or a football player, then we'd you know, we'd understand everything about it, but it's just the the nature of the game, I guess. And um it wasn't until down the track that you know people started to talk about that and and and I sort of sat back and realized what an important it basically set me up to stay in Russia for 20 years, from what he said. And what he told me was exactly what happened. The city would be different. You'll you'll progress if you are stronger, get yourself a Russian woman, learn the language, even though I don't speak great, but I speak enough to survive. There was um to give it a chance, to give the people a chance, a good culture, good people. And and he was right. And it was sort of click to me a little bit down the track that and I think about why I happened to stay there, apart from the fact that I m met a Russian woman and got married and had a family there and things like that, is why I ended up staying there and still commute backwards and forwards. You know?

SPEAKER_03 43:39

But I have to ask you, look, apart from that sort of incredibly prevalent moment in your life that sort of really set rather an astounding path. You know, if you if you go back to that kitchen and you st you were saying, you know, you weren't happy at the Time Novikov was like he wants to leave, so on and so forth. Did you stay within that group or or or did you go and move somewhere else to open other ventures?

SPEAKER_01 44:11

Uh I ended up staying there for six years. Yeah, again, you know, sort of I'm a I I do quite long hauls normally if things are comfortable. Um I wanted to open my own restaurant. I saw there was a crack in the market, and the crack in the market was that every restaurant was a huge, expensive restaurant. And I know I thought to myself, um, surely get a smaller location, invest smaller, developed a menu which is affordable to the to the average person. That that people will come. Surely at not the the environment where there's huge restaurants all the time, it's just simply not sustainable. It doesn't matter who it is. And I saw it happen in Moscow. I saw it happen in where every restaurant was a 200-seater. Every restaurant they spent $10 million. Every restaurant had the most expensive foreign chef working in the kitchen. Every restaurant imported the most expensive products. But they got to a time where it just wasn't sustainable. And the start of that was 2008. And what absolutely collapsed it was 2014. I remember it. I remember 2008 coming into a restaurant that we did 350 people the night before to zero the next day. The financial crisis had hit, and it was a turning point. But in all credit to Novikov, the first person who really contacted me was he came to me and he said to me, listen, things are really fucked up now, and it's going to be tough. Never ever deviate from your quality-driven cuisine, but be smart in the way that you do it. Work harder now than you've ever worked, and it'll come back. And he was right.

SPEAKER_03 46:19

So what happened during that time?

SPEAKER_01 46:21

Oh, it was tough. Had to trim staff, had to do all that sort of stuff, cooking for nobody. And the restaurant really it took maybe two or three months to come back, but it never came back to the level that it was before because so much damage had been done financially. And I think not only in Moscow, it was the world. It was, you know, flipped upside upside down.

SPEAKER_03 46:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:45

And um, but it was a lot of very important learning steps for me that again progressed me to I was to where I went I ended up when I've sort of got sold everything that I was involved in in Moscow a year and a half ago.

SPEAKER_03 47:04

So then Glenn, look, we we no it's it's widely known that when you were in Russia, you you opened over 50 concerts. Yeah. Not the same. No, no, no, not the same, but still, I mean it's uh it's no mean feat to open even one as a foreigner, let alone fifty. Uh so I want to I mean you must have obviously, apart from you know, meet meeting, you know, your wife and and and having a family there, you must have actually warmed a lot, not just to the country, but to the culture and to the people.

SPEAKER_01 47:40

Of course. So what I said to you is it the people are incredible. I tell you a story. This is at Nadalivostok. I get up in the morning, I'm not feeling so good. A little bit gingery, you know, when you feel that. Get on my jacket, I start walking to work like I did every day. I get to the restaurant, it's minus 10, 12, 8, I can't remember. It was cold. I get to the restaurant. At that time I had uh my Japanese pastry chef was Kobayashi. I'd normally go in and have a coffee with him. He looked at me and I was perspiring and sweating, and he looked at me and he said, I think you're not good, you're a little bit green. I think you should maybe go home and have. I said, Maybe you're right. I'm not starting to feel so good by the time I got there. I start walking home, I get three-quarters of the way home, I collapse. I'm laying on the ground trying to sort of find my way what to do. These two old ladies come and pick me up, one in each arm, trying to explain that's my house. They walk me home. I get home, my wife calls the doctor, Glenn's green, he's passed out sweating. Go in. That night had an emergency, uh, got gangrene of the spleen, so it actually was at the point of snapping off, which was a very crucial stage. Okay, Jamie, tell me, honestly, where in the world do you think if I fell over in Australia like that, someone's gonna pick me up and take me home? Or here. Well, two old ladies, number one. Yeah. That that one here and one there. And it wasn't far, it was maybe from maybe it was 500 meters. Still, still took me home. Got got me got me close enough to home where I said, that's where I live. I'm out of there. Now I I often think about and I try to people say to me, Oh, Russia! Yeah, you know, I said, you know, you must understand. And that's predominantly, you know, I I not uh cooking is a a big part of my life, my family, but also photography. So I still do a lot of film photography, still develop the film, I still go through all that process of um, and I and I still do it a lot. And after this I will show you a little bit what I do. And I travel that country intensely. I've been everywhere in the north, more than most Russians, I think. And I stay in homes where people I don't even know. I I eat at d tables where people I don't had a I've never had a problem. So I don't understand where all of it comes from. And I've never had a problem. Great country, good people, incredible food, best tomatoes in the world, best cucumbers in the world. Just need to you know, I'm sure that things will get better over a period of time. Once it all opens up again a little bit. But what was a really important part was 2014, the first sanctions came on, and we said we wouldn't talk much about it, but this is um hospitality related. The first sanctions came on for whatever, and um they stopped um we were told from one day to the next we couldn't get the produce. So there was a period of time where we were so reliant on, at that time we're still reliant on imports that the industry hadn't really self-developed within, even though it's an abundance of land, an abundance of skill, and an abundance of money, an abundance of intelligence. It never really developed. And it was until then, and then I saw over a period of six months, eight months, twelve months, where our whole industry basically flipped from relying on export to producing within. And it changed the whole, it changed the whole scene.

SPEAKER_03 52:04

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SPEAKER_01 52:54

And you said you arrived sort of 2006, 2007. Yeah, 2005, 2006, and 2007 by the time the restaurant opened and all that sort of thing.

SPEAKER_03 53:02

And so let's say, you know, 2014, 2015, 16, let's say, um, how did you start to see the reason why I'm asking you is because you said, you know, there were no sort of uh Russian head chefs when you first arrived. So if you fast forward it started. Right. So if you fast forward till you know 2015, 16, 17. Only Russian chefs. It must have been quite cool for you to see that gastronomic change.

SPEAKER_01 53:28

And a lot of them were guys that have worked with me over the years. You know, that was I'd basically been there by that stage for 10 years, eight years, nine years, ten years, whatever it was. Um. To see some of them move into the senior roles of the kitchens, which was important for me. Because you imagine how many restaurants I've opened, how long I've been there, how many people have been through my system. It's maybe one in two, you know what I mean? And there's a couple of other really predominant uh uh Vladimir Mukin from the White Rabbit group, you know, he's also developed a lot of chefs. A good friend of mine also developed a lot of chefs. There's a lot of good chefs, local boys in that country that basically, you know, are hungry and striving for development outside of the country.

SPEAKER_03 54:17

Well, the other thing that I think is also very, very interesting is the fact that yes, if you take away the sort of politics of it and you go into the hospitality part, Russia has four seasons, right? And and very strong seasons. I mean the winters are winters. Yeah, like now. Uh summers are hot, right?

SPEAKER_01 54:39

You know, it rains in spring, you know.

SPEAKER_03 54:42

So that must have been also quite interesting for you to to not just see uh the the food in that way, but also to see the country and how it changed within the nature.

SPEAKER_01 54:56

Yeah. Yeah, there was a lot of changes. There was a lot of changes in uh in just the structure of the city in Moscow. Moscow's a metropolis, it's huge. Do you know what I mean? It's a I don't know twenty million people. Twenty million. Nineteen or twenty. It's huge, it's a metropolis. Of course, not everybody has money and there's still it's still in layers. But it's been interesting to see it grow like it has, especially with our in our industry. But it's a beautiful city, clean, safe, beautiful, historic, you know, architecture, culture. They have a good culture. The culture's interesting for me. And it's sort of maybe because I have um, you know, I have have a Greek Orthodox blood in me, that the Orthodox of the Russian had there was some sort of a connection there. You know, I still I have these, even though I'm not really a religious person, but they're given to me as I went through photographing different regions um of Russia. I took on um photographing the churches and the churches which were no longer uh operating, they were collapsing. And in yeah, in in one region, for example, in the region of Tver, which is maybe um a two to two and a half hour drive out of Moscow, there's a thousand abandoned churches. Yeah, and they're beautiful. Wow, yeah. I will show you some photos after. And around those churches, there's villages. So I photographed the church and there's a story where there's villages, where there's people, where's the culture, and that's where you get to meet the people and travel around and you know, um experience how they experience what they experience in the day-to-day. Yeah. And I there's parts of Russia where I've driven, where I'm driving along, and you hit lakes in the middle of summer, and you look around, and there's just fresh water. It's ap you have to see to believe how beautiful it is. We get out of the car, look around, there's nothing. Maybe some birds flying around. Strip naked, swim, come back in, dry ourselves, keep driving. You see nothing. It's really a vast, extremely vast land. You can drive for hours and hours and hours. Which I did. Up to Ahungas, which is right up the north of Russia, if you know, you know, the geography there. So it's incredible. It's an incredible. And a lot of it's old. Uh a lot of cities are abandoned. Like you come into villages and they're totally abandoned. So I have some photographs of one particular guy, and this is we're divide diversing a little bit away from um the cooking, but for me, it's still the same, the photography, because it gives me an opportunity to be creative, but in just in a different format. And that's the reason why I think I enjoy it so much. So we're driving for hours, we come across this village. We go into this village and it's totally abandoned. The houses are still there. Some are slanted, like you see in the pictures, and this is in the middle of summer. On one side, there was, I remember it to this day, there was just these golden, you could see these golden drops for as far as my eye could see. And we went up to them and they were golden raspberries, which had been growing as far as you could see. It was unbelievable, you know, how expensive they are, especially to serve in a restaurant.

SPEAKER_02 58:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 58:53

Just fields of it. Go into the city, and there's nothing. Just a street, streets with no nobody there, and I hear this noise. I heard this, yeah. So we sort of like, I'm panicking. I'm with another photographer, Al Alexei. We're panicking. And we're sort of trying to understand where this is coming from. So we sort of pinpointed the house. We go there. There's a guy who'd been in the war and he was a little bit um, he was deaf. He'd become mute from the war. And he said, Do I want a cigarette? Give me a cigarette. I don't have any cigarette, but here's some money. I don't want your money. I want a cigarette. You know, and he was living in total, you know, I understand how he's living. The house was still nice and clean, but he was an old man by himself.

SPEAKER_02 59:45

Right.

SPEAKER_01 59:46

So he couldn't talk, but he was writing down uh the story. In the meantime, I uh got permission, I photographed him, photographed his environment, photographed how he was living, which I have all have everything, and he had written down that the village at one stage was a thriving village. And the priest from the the village which is next door, which is maybe an hour away, an hour and a half away, he the priest got up and said, I'm gonna open up a secondary setup here. And some the people said, We don't want you to do that, you need to stay here, don't worry about that there. Whatever you do there, the land and the water's gonna dry. This guy was explaining to us his story, and he said it over a period of time that famine had come into the into the village, the water had subsided, and basically everybody evacuated away from the village back to that village. So it didn't give it an opportunity to so these are just you know, as you go along, you you experience a lot of um um and and see a lot of things which are which are incredible for me. But isn't that the magic of travel? Of course, and it doesn't matter where you travel, I'm just that's an experience for me there. There's other experiences I've had everywhere, sure. Including, I'm sure, that I'll have here as well when I get the time to travel.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:15

So, Glenn, look, I want to understand then if you spent such a phenomenal amount of time in in Russia, and you still do, when when you can, how was the the idea then for you know how how did the Middle East sort of crop up in terms of opening a space?

SPEAKER_01 1:01:34

Uh no, I had a lot of I had a lot of uh offers over the time to come here, but it just I was too entrenched in what I was doing there. And then Yevgeny Evgeny Kuzin called me, who's the owner of Fundamental. Good man.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:54

How how did he how how did you guys meet?

SPEAKER_01 1:01:57

He we obviously um we have mutual investors, so the investors he has and the investors I have are mutual. We also have some mutual friends, and um he'd come to Moscow and and had done a tour around Moscow and basically had eaten in all my restaurants, and then um asked me to move here. And that time I was tired. I'd done 21 years or whatever, 22 years in Moscow. I was I was tired. I had to get a I needed something new. It's a serious stint. Yeah, it is, and a lot of restaurants, yeah. I mean a lot of pain, a lot of suffering, but also a lot of success along the time. Yeah. And um I um it was it was the opportunity. It was the opportunity I needed to get. I was tired. And I spoke to my my my two partners, Bogdan and Ivan, who are still good friends. Um I spoke to them that I was tired. They understood. I'd lost a little bit of interest and I needed a change. I needed a change of environment, not just to have a break. I needed to cut it off, cut the responsibility, and it cost me a little bit of money at certain stages to do that as well. But I had to do it for my own mental health, if you know what I mean. I was burnt out.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:18

So I came here and um we opened up uh inner.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:24

So before you you arrived, Glenn, I want to understand, did you have uh much of a sort of idea as to the gastronomic landscape with within within the region and more specifically within Dubai?

SPEAKER_01 1:03:39

I'd been coming here over a period of 10 years during the Christmas period with my family. Peak winter in Moscow, beautiful weather here, a good transition, not too hot, not too cold, could get a suntan, have a swim, go shopping, eat good food. Um so I but I didn't really no, I've learned a lot in the last year since I've been here. So um in hindsight, no, I didn't know a lot about it. I thought I did. It's quite a brutal environment here. It's very competitive, it's a very competitive market on the surface. Especially where you are. Yeah. Yeah. No, of course I've got the two biggest revenue-generating uh venues in the country on either side.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:29

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:29

On one wall to the next. Yeah. And then when it gets on those competitive nights, you know, on a Saturday night or Friday night, where the music just gets louder and louder and louder and louder and louder. Um it's difficult.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:42

Well, if we talk a little bit about the concept in the restaurant, it's called Ena.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:46

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:48

First of all, if you were, you know, if you've never sort of set foot in the space and I'm a new guest, walk me through the space.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:58

It's a little uh okay. This is an interesting one. And this is a good one to discuss, actually. It's a little um it's a it's a little bit difficult to find, even though it's along the front, simply because of the black uh cascading or the brick the tiling that we have at the front. You sort of need to pass through that to enter. You enter sort of like a long hallway, which is um to the left of that is all of our back of house. Sort of sort of you walk up the side. On the other side is Gaia, um uh Serene, which is a monstrosity. Uh you sort of walk up to the you come into it, and you come into a room which will almost gives you a feel like I guess of um Africa. Um maybe some part of Asia. It gives you a little bit of that feel. Roof totally opens. Up windows to the to the coastline and to the coast beach beach side open up. It's a beautiful restaurant. Different layers. It's intense. It's an intense restaurant. It's it doesn't have tablecloths it's a sort of anti-everything. Um that's about the city a little bit. Um and it originally it was gonna be a uh African restaurant. That was the original thing. The idea of the restaurant came from one of my restaurants in Moscow, even before I came on board. So I've got a restaurant in uh Moscow called Maya. So there's two ways you can do the food. One you can go a little bit South American style is what we did in Moscow. Or we can go more of a brutal grill is what we did here. So we thought it would work better here. Um so the design basically the the the building wasn't built when I arrived, but the designs had been done, and it was already too far into the stage to change it. Where because obviously there's a long building process and things like that, you'd basically need to order everything a year before, and that was the year before it opened, I sort of came on board.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:35

And so did the concept so once you knew that, and obviously you you know you have your your teething problems, so on and so forth. How how did you and still do the wrong teeth? How did you sort of start to build the menu then? Because as you say, you you came here, you didn't have too much of a sort of idea in terms of of the of the dining landscape, but you you obviously had your own ideas that that from from from working in previous restaurants and and Moscow and so on and so forth. So, what were your initial ideas for the menu?

SPEAKER_01 1:08:11

No, the menu uh we had the initial stages were um we wanted it to be a creative um product driven comfort restaurant with a twist, and that's basically where we ended up. What I didn't realize was and it took me a while to understand why every restaurant along the front has a spaghetti with lobster, why every one of them serve a Greek salad. D you know what I mean? It took me a little bit to understand that. I thought maybe it could be something a little bit different. I also didn't really understand because we'd been through this stage in Moscow a long time ago where everything had to be about Instagram. You know what I mean? I would still peak Instagram in Dubai and people still come to me and say you need to make your food more Instagramable. You know, you need to put some fucking stars. You know? And of course, you know me. It's kind of like fuck you. I want to put any fucking stars on the food. I've got a got a vision and you know it's been a it's been a difficult road, but it's been a very it's been a good road for us as well.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:49

So how long have you been open now?

SPEAKER_01 1:09:51

Not not a year. I think uh another two months a year, so basically ten months. And of course we opened right before summer. So you can basically write off three or four months, I think it's uh June, July, August, September's shit as well.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:06

But was that a good sort of time for you to be able to develop the front of house team, back of house team in order to do it?

SPEAKER_01 1:10:13

Because we had the momentum and the development with with the it everything had come together very nicely. And um it was active and then summer came. So that activity stopped. Then you then you don't understand what summers are about here and how brutal they are, yeah, and how basically everything stops. Um you start to adjust a few things and you start to play around maybe in the right way and sometimes in the wrong way. And um I think that sort of it sort of it it sort of held us back a little bit. And I just I sort of feel like just now we're starting to it's starting to blossom a little bit now. We had a lot of really good customers coming in at the beginning. At a very good period straight after the summer, October, November. December, January haven't been so good across the board. Of course, there's some legendary restaurants which are still it doesn't matter when you go in the middle of summer, in the middle of winter, they're they're they're banging, you know. The ones in DIF, there's a couple of them in DIFC, and yeah, there's a few of them around. But I sort of made friends with Mohammed uh Ufali over a period of time, and he's always good to talk to. Because I if I I go in and talk to him and he will say to me, the December wasn't good, or this wasn't good, or he's been pretty accurate with what he's saying. So February's gonna be much better, it was gonna be like it was in November, and blah blah blah blah blah. So I sort of there's a couple of good people which I've met which are local in the sense that they've been here a long time, are sort of helping us through the up and down periods that we do have, because during the week it's quiet, during the weekend it's pumping. I would like to have a maybe a little bit less on the weekend and a little bit more the weekdays during the weekdays, you know. So just sort of offset it and balance it and sort of keep everybody motivated, including myself. But it's it's still part of the process, I understand. And I understand that um it's hard work to sort of and takes time to sort of progress to to that level. Now, Mizumi didn't start full, true, you know, took them a long time, took a partnership split, took everything that um that is required for one person to end up with that with that particular location for it to be 10 years later successful, or 15 years or 20 years, or however long it's been there.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:00

But one of the things, Glenn, which is uh sort of quite striking when you walk in the restaurant is that you have this beautiful wood-fired open kitchen, and it's one of the largest in the Middle East thing, you know. You know, it's just when you walk when you go through, you know, you have the dried bones of the turbine, everything is hanging up, and I mean it looks absolutely spectacular. Yeah, scorched vegetables, but then you taste the food, and uh as you say, what struck me when I was fortunate enough to to eat there is that the produce is second to none, the technique is phenomenal, yeah, and you know, there are always on every plate there's touches of brilliance. There's nothing which, and and I don't mean this in that sort of disrespectful way, there's nothing which is sort of like uh bang, bang, you know, pathos theatrics, let's say. But what what is beautiful is the flavours on the plate itself, and that's what really speaks volumes, right? To the point where um, you know, being in the region, and I've been here for some time and I've eaten in in a lot of restaurants because of my job, so on and so forth. There's not too many things that impress me nowadays because you you see different things that you have. But one of the dishes in your restaurant that I was absolutely blown away by was the the char-grilled vegetable platter. Oh, yeah, you know, and um it was just one of the dishes that still to this day sticks with me because the the produce is treated with such absolute respect, the char, the fire, like the whole thing was just amazing. So I wanted to sort of ask you the the process or and and the thought behind the menu because you do have your your your hits or Dubai hits, as I would say, like you say you lobster pasta, so on and so forth, but but we don't serve it, which is which is good, but you know you you saw phenomenal steaks, everything is is is technical.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:10

The purity, that's right, yeah, and that's what we try to do. And um I think that it was the same in Moscow. It was the same in Moscow, it started like that. Everything was about product and purity, the taste, the flavor. Now everybody's doing it there. And I've seen every cycle go through Moscow in that time, 21, 22 years, whatever it was. I've seen every cycle of nouvelle cuisine, um uh bastronomy, um, molecular cuisine, you know. I've seen everything go through there. Every chef come in and to do it. And but right now, if you go to a city which is phenomenally creative with the food, because you have to be to survive there. I can't order a bigger lobster than you, because it's not there. We all use exactly the same carrots, we use exactly the same onions, the same sea bass, the same beef, but it's just how you work it onto the plate and how you educate your people to produce it so it gets onto the plate consistently, is what it's all about. And to keep it as pure as possible. And that's I mean, I'm uh that's what I'm about. People, you know, they see full restaurants when they come to visit me in Moscow. It's about purity, it's simple. It's a plate of octopus and olive oil and salt, but it's just done properly.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:34

That's the thing. Yeah, that's the magic, it's not overcomplicated.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:39

Saucurs are not garnishes, they're not stars, and not um smoke and bubbles and smears, I call it. Not every chef's like that. I see there's one um who it's it's I think it's called Lana Restaurant by Danny Garcia. And I love when he first opened, it was an incredible restaurant. Food was incredible for me. I went in there and I saw his techniques and they're no different to what I was trying to do. But I see over the period of time it's he's changed it a little bit. I don't know whether it's him knowingly or whether it's just the people, you know, because obviously he doesn't come here so often. But I've seen it change because I I've been going there quite a lot. Even to his smoke room, which is next door. And um he's changed a little bit from that purity that he had in the beginning. But I think that um I can't see myself doing it any other way than that. Product driven. We do, we source the best, the best beef. Incredible beef that nobody has here. It's not waggle beef. You can't have it well done. No, it will not cook it for you well done. But you can have it medium, medium rare, and I can guarantee you it's a good cut with a little chew, a little bit of this, a little bit of flavour, a little bit of that, seasoned properly, a little bit of tallow over the top. This is all those little things.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:17

And we just don't bang them, bang 'em on the grill and no, but I mean they they are, everything is treated with such dignity, respect, and it's just a lot of things.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:28

And if it's not right, it doesn't come in. Right. I see today a whole batch of lamb, I saw in the group chat, all the lamb went back. I'm not serving lamb today. It was shit. It's just not what we um it's not what the standard that we expected. But what's really interesting here is that it's such there's thousands of restaurants here. The biggest names in the world are here. But they still have problem bringing produce into the country. Good produce when you pay for it and you wait for it. I think that um eventually it has to change. You know what I mean? To really for the city really to be regarded as a as a um, but I mean you know, I would say yeah, it has.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:25

I mean 14 years ago it was very, very different. Five years ago was very different. To now, you know, so so the good thing is it hasn't stood still.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:36

Yeah, thank God for that.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:37

Yeah, you know, suppliers and and and food distributors are doing everything possible they can because they see the the chefs and the concepts that are coming in and that demand from from the chefs being spent such as yourself, also setting those standards, actually. It's it's really it's working both ways. What can we do? Which is really good. But have you have you noticed a considerable change you know since you've opened and and and you've had that time to to to mature within those 10 months? How is has the restaurant sort of started to take shape for you?

SPEAKER_01 1:20:15

Yeah, I think that um I think during summer maybe went off track a little bit. Which is easy to do when we're really there's not a lot of people coming through the door. True. But as it's coming back again, we've sort of straightened it up and we're sort of trying to bring it back to our original state. Um But it's been difficult to sort of, you know, sort of think we're on the we're on the right track now. I think we're on the right track now. I think the food's good. I think the menu we have now is probably one of our best menus. And um I've been bringing guest chefs in on a monthly basis. It's called Masters of Fire. These chefs um are all totally different, different parts of the world, different concept restaurants, everything's different about them, except one thing. They all cook on fire. So um it's been a real um it's been an educational uh period when the chefs come in for myself as well, also for my cooks, also for them when they come in. But to see how they what they produce and how they produce it, their food, their style of food on our uh on our grill, it's incredible. It's not easy though, right? No, it's not easy. The first day is always a little bit so what we try to do is the day before we actually start, we'd like to already have our first batch of degustations done. And that'll give me and the chef a little bit of a chance to sit down and have a bit of a chat to maybe change some things or adjust some things, or and then the day that we start, we basically will do another degustation of that final product and then go run with it after that. And sort of uh it's been and that no and all credit that's come from Chef Jason, my head chef, the Irishman I've got in the kitchen. Um he um he's so organized, he likes to work so many days ahead. Whereas mainly if maybe if I was on my own, I'd be doing it on the day we opened and sort of struggling through. But that's been um it's been an unbelievable experience for me. We've had the last couple of chefs I've had there have been incredible. Really, really incredible. One from Hong Kong who just bleeds beef and the grill and smoke. His knowledge of it was unbelievable. And then before that, I had Danny Africano, who owns a 40-star Michelin restaurant in in the bush in the woodlands of Gulloway, somewhere in you know, in fucking island. I don't know where it is. You know what I mean? Again, produced some of the most unbelievable dishes I've seen off the cuff, because obviously he can't produce his dishes there. Unbelievable food. But I think what's also dishes which influenced me where to the extent of if I'm going to go back to Russia again and open another restaurant where the market's ready for that sort of thing, I may even head in that direction.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:34

Because the other thing is that I think Dubai lends itself beautifully to these types of collaborations, specifically when it comes to, as you say, that those masters of fire, and I think it's it's a great and please carry it on because I think it's just something really cool that that I think Dubai could get behind. Uh, and and people who who are really into you know, because you know, you've got chefs and foodies who are very geeky about fire, you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:03

Well, it's a new that's I mean it's been it's been going since day one, but um it's sort of coming a little bit a lot of chit-chat about it at the moment. But the series the series will end um you know before the summer. But I think the next series after that, I would like to incorporate local chefs, you know, uh maybe to work together with some chefs from Syria or Iran or Pakistan or from Dubai or you know what I mean? From the region, I think would be very, very interesting to do. Again, they spend a lot of their time on fire. It's a cheap, it's a cheap fuel, you know.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:54

But it's a very difficult one to master.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:56

100% it is, and it takes a lot of time. Yeah, it takes a lot of training, it takes a lot of patience, and I don't think that big grill that we have there, we've even maxed it to its capabilities yet.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:12

It's beautiful, yeah. It's really it's incredible, yeah, it's special. But look, what what what I what I was gonna ask you is also what are your your your thoughts in the in the wider landscape of of the Middle East when it comes to dining? The reason I'm asking then is because when I first came here I didn't have a clue. I had no clue uh about the food here, and it was so vast, and I had so many incredible chefs from from from Syria, Iraq, Kuwait, all you know, Oman, all telling me and showing me their different sort of cuisines. So it was such an amazing education that I'm incredibly grateful for. So have you found that here? You just said, you know, you speak to to Mohammed Ulfali, who is one of the most prominent names in the region.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:15

And a great operator, and they do a great product. A product for them which is extremely modern, but had been driven by childhood memories, you know, the same as the same as we do, no different to us. I was there maybe a few weeks back, he made for me this it's like a um, what do you call them? A calzoni, but their version of a fermented bread, it's a you know, they ferment the bread and they cut this like this long uh pie open and it's shaved with lamb and a special sauces and that, and it gets cut up and served in the line. It was incredible. Muhammad was explaining to me that that I can't remember whether it was his father or his his grandfather bought him, used to take him to this place to eat where this guy only made this particular thing. And um he said he would just would wait for to be taken there to eat that because it was such a big experience to see the guy cutting and boom boom boom. So he basically re-reproduced that childhood memory in the in the in the incredible restaurant that the Three Bros, I think it's called. Yeah, Three Bros. Yep, and um so I was eating it and I was thinking, I was trying to imagine what it would be like as a kid at that particular time, eating that particular dish with your grandfather in that environment. You understand? I think that they have a lot to offer, and I think that if I can incorporate that somehow in my restaurant, I think it'll be very, very interesting. The simpl simply the flavors that the Techniques, you know, the produce. No, I think it's very interesting. It sort of excites me a lot.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:07

And Glenn, as a as a sort of very well-experienced chef and restaurateur, with the produce that you have, specifically in Ena, and the dishes that you have on the menu, are you also able to tell those stories through the front of house team? How do you get them sort of involved and invested?

SPEAKER_01 1:28:35

That's also an ongoing process. You know, I'm not out there telling that story myself. Muhammad's out there telling that story himself. Maybe if he wasn't there telling that story, if his staff were telling me the story, then I wouldn't have the same, it wouldn't affect me like it did. Because I still remember that dish. Yeah, I remember the potatoes and the caveats, but that specific dish sits on me a lot. And because of the simple fact that he came to tell me. Now, whether it's true or whether it's not true, I don't know that. I thought about it afterwards, is it true? Is it a true story? 100% it's a true story. Because he was telling me with so much passion, but I can't get my people to tell me that. Tell that story on behalf of me. I must go and tell that story myself. So when I physically go out to the restaurant and talk to the people, yes, I can tell that story the same as Muhammad does. But if I rely on the second or third party or fourth party, it's human nature. Yeah, this was uh created by uh Chef Muhammad's uh gun. I would never have that same feeling and it wouldn't sit on me like it did. True. You know, so that's um small restaurants. I think are the you know, I think it's my own personal opinion only. There's a lot of in Dubai what I saw in Moscow 21 years ago, twenty-two years ago. And they're all huge restaurants that couldn't be sustained couldn't be sustained, both through volume of traffic and financially and investments, and I think you'll eventually see a lot more chefs opening smaller restaurants, the same as Muhammad. Then he's maybe not the pioneer in it, but he's the pioneer in it at that level. And a level which influences a lot of people because he has the right PR marketing, or which is actually very important. I never had any idea how important PR marketing and hype was till I came here.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:04

It's a big thing here.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:07

What we do in the kitchen at the end of the day is maybe four or five down the line. You know that as well as I do. And that's the tragedy of it all for me. You know, I think that it's definitely gonna change and it's definitely gonna go in a different direction. It has to. It's human nature that it's gonna happen. And especially the way things are happening around the world, that's the only way that it's gonna happen. Because in the end, the well, the well always dries, you know, and um the smaller restaurants driven by chefs, I think is gonna be the way of the future, the same as we have in Moscow. In Moscow now, if you want to eat good food, creative, incredible quality-driven food, you must you will understand that a chef is involved in that business, he's a partner in that business, he runs it, and I think the same thing will happen here. These brand chefs and blah blah blah. It's all it's all bullshit, Amy. You know, it's the the times are changing and it's gonna change. For the better, I'm gonna and I only think for the better. I think it'll be better for the industry, and it'll be more there will be longevity. And there will be more, I think there will be more development within within the industry, more personalized training, more personalized development for the staff, for the kitchen, for the producer, for the suppliers. I love that. That's my own personal opinion, which sits inside me that I often think about. And only those who are very close to me do I ever speak about that. But it's something that I'm very local about. In Russia, do never open up the sanctions, even if the sanctions stop, to let them import produce back in. Because the produce they get in there, which the chefs have the opportunity to use and develop, is incredible, special, natural, raw, full of flavor, growing properly. You understand? I'm very vocal there about this. Imports should be minimal. When I worked in Shanghai, if mandarin season started in China, no more importing mandarins. You only buy local mandarins. Beef season started, you need to, as chewy as it was, you need to make it work.

SPEAKER_03 1:33:57

Well, look, Glenn, that's incredible. But now we've come to the quick fire round of the show. So, first of all, this is gonna be the most difficult question I'm gonna ask you of the quick fire round, which is the one that all the chefs, restaurateurs, CEOs, anyone struggles with. What would you say is your favorite ingredient?

SPEAKER_01 1:34:26

I've got two. Please. An eggplant and a tomato.

SPEAKER_03 1:34:30

Beautiful.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:31

Yeah. Tomato is just the absolute king of umami, followed by the eggplant. But once the eggplant hits the grill and gets roasted, it's it's an and they're also both extremely versatile. They're both extremely something that can go into anything. They're my two number ones. Love it. And everybody who knows me knows that. Spicy or pickled? You know, today at the Bunya I had pickled cabbage, which are really Russians do that really well. Pickle.

SPEAKER_03 1:35:04

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:05

Um pickles in fermentation.

SPEAKER_03 1:35:07

Oh, true, true, true, true. Uh Pavelova or Lamington?

SPEAKER_01 1:35:15

That's a good one. Nothing beats a good Lamington. I'm gonna go for Lamington. I think if it's done properly, I think it doesn't get any better. Borscht or Pelomini. Ah, I couldn't separate them. When I go to yeah, I I couldn't separate as soon as I go back to Moscow to see my family, I I'll I'll order a borscht. I'll eat borscht and or pilomini. For me, I can't separate them. Done.

SPEAKER_03 1:35:47

This is gonna be the last one in terms of food related questions. Tomahawk or T-bone? T-bone.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:56

Why? I just think that well, you've got the two different cuts there. I think and they're both a little bit more pure in terms of the cuts that are on the strip and the fillet, you know what I mean? Yeah, on the bone. Yeah. Anything cooked on the bones amazing.

SPEAKER_03 1:36:14

So, in that respect, what would you say are your I mean, as of this moment right now, what are your top three favourite cuisines to eat?

SPEAKER_01 1:36:29

I tell you what I'm really enjoying at the moment is a Peruvian food. I think that um there's an element of how I cook in that food without all the spices and you know, because obviously it's a very spice-driven Peruvian. I love Japanese food. I love the purity of it. It's what it is, it's pure. I love Greek food because it's my blood. And it'll get better as time goes on in this country as well. If they, you know, it'll be more chef-driven. They'll say that with my three cuisines that I'd eat.

SPEAKER_03 1:37:29

So in the same vein, who would you say are your top three food heroes, but they don't necessarily need to be chefs.

SPEAKER_01 1:37:40

Oh god, that's that's tricky. Look, you know, if you understand what I'm about, I'm there's a few things that I don't do. I don't, I'm not a hero person. I'm just not. If you ask me who my favorite foot, my my football team. Not so much about the um about the player itself. And the same as cooking. I've never really I love Marco Pierre White, of course. But in terms of I don't I don't pin a person to I just don't do it. I just don't pin a person to something that I love. And those three cuisines I do really love and I enjoy, and maybe I eat them the most. But I don't have a um, I don't have, I'm not a hero person. I'll never I'm ne I'll never go for an autograph, I hunt an autograph.

SPEAKER_03 1:38:31

But then who would you say has I mean, apart from your mum, yeah, who would you say has sort of really influenced your career?

SPEAKER_01 1:38:40

No, of course, you've meet people along the way. Um Novikov influenced me. He taught me about business, he taught me about being successful, taught me about the market, taught me about what to look at in the restaurant, taught me about the music levels, what people want. He's he's been a really big influence on me. But there was sporadically a lot of people along the way, but nothing which really You know, I have this I have a certain policy as well. If I leave a place or I leave a person, I've stopped working with them, I never go back. Never. It's just built in. And um if I sell a restaurant, I'll never go back to that restaurant. If I close the restaurant, I'll never go back to it. If I leave a restaurant, I'll never go back to it. I just won't go back. Not to eat, not to speak to people, not to. It's just my uh I don't know, maybe it's it's it's it's uh just how I operate in here. And I don't I haven't haven't I haven't had any if I was gonna say someone really pure, you know, really truly influenced me, I would say in my life I would say you know, in terms of the industry, I would say it was Novokov. It's really at the end of the day, whenever I see him, I thank him. Because it's the success I've had is because of him, because of how he he educated me. But he also once told me that I've educated thousands like you, which is true. I had 50, 60 restaurants, he's opened two or three hundred of them. That's a different level altogether. He said that um he's educated thousands of people like he educated me, but there's only one or two who take it. And those one or two become successful, and I was fortunately one of them. Do you know what I mean? Oh, interesting. Yeah, yeah. And he was aggressive with me and times where I wanted to, you know, wanted to knock him out sometimes, you know. But I still um I still often think about those days, and and and there are times where I think to myself, if I'm going through a bad patch, or if my restaurant's going through a bad patch, I think to myself, what would he do? Do you know what I mean? And I never regarded him as my hero. I just regarded him as a person that that put educated me and put me on the wrong in the right direction. You know, I think maybe also that a hero in the sense may not be, you know, to follow a hero may not be so beneficial to you. Especially when it comes to work and things like that. Like, of course, I would love to be like Marco Pierre White. But I understand if I was like Marco Pierre White, I wouldn't be anywhere where I am now. You know what I mean? Even though he would special, he's special and he's successful because of that. But I don't I don't know, I just I'm not the hero guy.

SPEAKER_03 1:42:14

So then if I take from your experience, whether running restaurants, kitchens, whichever continent that has been in the world, and you know, these things happen every day. But can you tell me one of your funniest either restaurant or kitchen incidents that you've seen or been involved in?

SPEAKER_01 1:42:44

Yeah, when I was when I first started, I think I was 17 years old. I was working in a Greek restaurant in Melbourne, in South Melbourne, popular place, and we were making like this it's like a tomato soup, almost like a cazpacho. And I was, you know, because of course at that age I'm you know, I was just following you put a little bit of this, put a bit of that, put a bit of that. So the owner comes in tice and goes, Oh, that's nice. But all the chefs had helped me a little bit guiding me. He said, put it in the fridge. So I grab it, and it was like a huge big mayonnaise container, you know what that's yeah. Of course it it breaks, falls on the ground, and the boss is just he he's just looking at me. Greek guy. I go in to try to pick it up and I slide over. So if whatever you saw, whatever you see on Instagram with a chef, that actually happened to me. I was 17 years old, and I was sliding around in tomato sauce, and and there was a lot of laughs after I left, but at that particular time there wasn't a lot of laughs, that's for sure. Okay, as you can say, I didn't last too long in that position. That was an expensive um that was an expensive mistake. But you know, you know, kitchens are there's there's always something happening in a kitchen, you know, that you spend enough time in them like I have. And a lot of those things are about the people, you know, our industry is driven by the people, and I tell everybody this doesn't matter who you are, you're only as good as the people that you have around you. I can think I'm the best, I think I'm the king, but if I don't have those people around you if around me to help me execute my vision, then it's then you're never gonna be the king. Do you know what I mean? And I think you're coming into a new city, I've coming into a new city, it takes time. I understand that. But I understand that I also have the drive and the experience to make sure that eventually I will have the absolute right people around me to progress to the top. I know that. And I'm getting I've got a lot of them around me now. Maybe 90%, like we all do. But I think when the 100% hits, because we're always looking for those great people, the highly skilled, there's a few areas that we need to polish up on, like every kitchen, then I think it'll it'll be in it'll it all be in a really good place. And it's growing nicely at the moment, like a blossom.

SPEAKER_03 1:45:38

So, Glenn, the last question that we ask every guest what advice would you give to a sixteen-year-old Glenn and Bayless.

SPEAKER_01 1:46:05

I would tell Glenn before making a decision on to come into this industry to look at what other options there are. And if you decide to come into this in industry, make sure you work for only the best people. Because at the end of the day, at that age, you're like a sponge. It's who educates you will determine where you end up in the future. Yeah, I've seen more people leave the industry. No, I'm 60 now. I started when I was 16, 17. What's what's that 43 years? Wow. You know, you it's it's it's basically who you work for and who guides you as a chef or as an owner or as a general manager, director, where that person can educate you and lead you, and not only help you within your industry, but help you as a person. I think they're the most important things. Everything else will fall into place. Everything else falls, it always falls into place. Or go and do something else. Because unless you're in 100%, this industry takes no prisoners. You're either in or you're out. There's no in-betweens. So that's that's what I think. That's what I tell. And I have a lot of them coming to see me. I have a lot of young people coming to see me, parents who say, Glenn, help. Go and have a look at something else first. Or work for the best people. That's your choice you have. Because I think there's too many people who aren't who are not great in this industry. Again, this is simply my own personal opinion, and shouldn't be in a position to lead the younger generation for the future.

SPEAKER_03 1:48:17

Now, Glenn, this has been an absolutely fascinating conversation. Now, what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna put all of the details for the socials, for everything, in our show notes so everybody can sort of follow the restaurant and that sort of thing. Thank you. The only thing that's left to say is on behalf of the Chef JKP podcast, first of all, thank you very much for taking the time to be here because I know you're extremely busy. No, I enjoy it, it's great. At the same time, uh personally, I wanted to say uh thank you so so much for really number one opening this phenomenal restaurant that you have, and it's an absolute gem. I mean that in the best possible way, and uh it it really does have a place in the gastronomic scene in the Middle East, not just Dubai in the Middle East, because it's doing some incredible things, and I know it's just gonna go from strength to strength, and uh I really cannot wait to see the next few years of where Ina's gonna go because I I really see it from the very beginning from that first meal I had. Yeah, I know it's just gonna keep growing and growing and growing.

SPEAKER_01 1:49:23

And I didn't beat the drum too much about Ina, but it's a it's a pretty special place, and you know, we've it's a very food-focused restaurant, but it's also very simple in in itself, and as I said, it's very pure, pure in its flavours. And um, those who know know. And um, and hopefully those who who don't know will come and try. So, but I'd also like to thank you for giving me the opportunity because um it's been interesting. Two hours? Yes, two hours. We've been sitting here chit-chatting, I've been doing all the talking. I hope I didn't say anything I wasn't supposed to say.

SPEAKER_03 1:49:58

Thank you so much, really. Thank you. Mamma mia, Glenn, thank you so much for sharing such an inspiring journey. Someone with so much life experience, it's not hard to take inspiration from him. I also love the fact that he is so grounded considering how much success he's had. I feel truly he is a wonderful mentor, especially for today's generation. If you want to see more of what Glenn is doing, head over to the show notes. Well, to everyone listening or watching, if you've enjoyed this episode, you can support us in various ways. First of all, by sharing the show to absolutely everyone and anyone you know, even if they're not a chef or a stateur or even in hospitality. It's about inspiring people, giving them little sparks of joy. You can give me a spark of joy by pressing five stars on any podcast platform, as it helps to bring more eyes onto the show, and we can keep giving you more and more phenomenal content. At the same time, thank you to our partners Valrona for bringing this content to you and check out their beautiful chocolates, the best in the world. Equally, you can also purchase our thermos flasks. Check out where to buy those in the show notes. Well, gang. Next week is the final show of season 12. Make sure you stick around for that one. Thank you for sticking around till the very, very end of this one. Jeff JKP stunning out. Until next time, food is memories.