The Chef JKP Podcast

Why Most Young Chefs Ruin Their Careers by Moving Too Fast | Nicolas Lambert

• The Chef JKP Podcast • Season 13 • Episode 2

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Chef JKP sits down with Nicolas Lambert, Senior Executive Pastry Chef at Four Seasons Dubai and one of the most respected names in modern pastry.

From growing up in his parents’ bakery in France to leading teams across Hong Kong, Russia, and Dubai, Nicolas shares the risks, mentors, and decisions that shaped his career.

They discuss apprenticeship, leadership, competitions, learning English from scratch, and why mastering the fundamentals still matters more than chasing recognition.

WHAT YOU’LL HEAR IN THIS EPISODE

• Growing up inside his parents’ bakery in France
• Choosing pastry instead of following his father into baking
• The five-year apprenticeship that shaped his career
• Learning inside some of France’s most demanding pastry kitchens
• Moving to Hong Kong without speaking English
• Becoming Asia’s Best Pastry Chef
• Leading pastry teams across Hong Kong, Russia, and Dubai
• His advice for young chefs building a lasting career

CHAPTERS

05:19 Choosing Pastry Over Baking
06:28 The Five-Year Apprenticeship That Shaped Him
09:27 Leaving Home And Building His Career Across France
22:30 The Decision That Took Him Beyond France
30:18 Becoming Asia’s Best Pastry Chef
33:33 Russia, Dubai And Leading Global Teams
45:46 Competitions, Preparation And Advice For Young Chefs
48:02 Why Young Chefs Need Patience And Strong Fundamentals
58:13 The Kitchen Mistake That Changed His Leadership

FEATURED GUEST

Nicolas Lambert
Senior Executive Pastry Chef, Four Seasons Resort Dubai at Jumeirah Beach

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nicolas_lambert/

SEASON 13 PARTNER

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SPEAKER_00

That's right. The podcast is now on YouTube. So you can watch all of the interviews at your leisure. At the same time, your contribution to the show by hitting that subscribe button makes a monumental difference to the show, as we can keep inviting the guests you love and keep having the conversations that no one else is having. The only thing that I must is that you share the show. Welcome to the Chef JKP podcast with me, James Knight Pacheco. Culinary brothers and sisters, foodie disciples, this is the place where you will find your solace. A place of worship for all things that combine us together. The common thread that brings us around the table. Food and memories. Wherever you are in the world, whatever you're doing, I ask that you sit back and listen and perhaps take away a few morsels of advice. There will be laughter, we're gonna get serious. Above all, lessons for life. You're listening to the Chef JKP podcast, and this is what you can expect on today's show.

SPEAKER_01

I'm born in the bakery of my parents. I start to walk my first uh step in the bakery, so it was really my playground.

SPEAKER_00

Nicolas Lambert, from training in France to working in Michelin-starred kitchens, and now has become one of the youngest chefs ever to be named Asia's best pastry chef. You got uh Asia's best pastry chef, 50 best?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I didn't know anything what will happen this night, but when I win was like uh So you didn't know at all? I didn't know anything. It was uh bunking event. Yeah, I remember the five people was working on it. My chef said, Okay, let's go to cook the miku. So 50 mikui. 50. Yeah, 50 miku. So he said, okay, uh we are going in 10 minutes. So I go to put the mikui. I come back to help them. He said, okay, the miku are cooked. Forget to put the timer. I go to the oven, it was like a brony, you know, like cook, overcook. It was a disaster.

SPEAKER_00

Welcome back to the Chef JKP podcast. My name is James Knight Pacheco, and I'll be your host as we navigate another incredible episode. A brand new season, a brand new chapter, and what a way to begin. If these conversations challenge your thinking, inspire your journey, or simply make your commute a little bit more interesting, then please make sure to subscribe on YouTube or press follow wherever you get your podcasts, as it helps us to bring even more remarkable stories to the table and spread that all-important message that food is memories. My guest today is a chef whose story starts in a small family bakery in France and takes us all the way to some of the most prestigious kitchens in the world. Born into a family of bakers, Nicolas Lambert has spent a lifetime perfecting his craft. From training in France to working in Michelin-starred kitchens all the way over in Hong Kong, and now has become one of the youngest chefs ever to be named Asia's best pastry chef. His journey is one built on talent, discipline, and a relentless pursuit of absolute excellence. Today, Nicholas is the senior executive pastry chef for both four seasons, hotels right here in Dubai, leading teams across two of the city's most iconic luxury properties. Along the way, he has earned some of the industry's highest honours, including Asia's best pastry chef, Goen Millow, UAE Pastry Chef of the Year, and Cater Middle East Hotel Pastry Chef of the Year. But behind the awards, trophies, and beautiful desserts is a story of sacrifice, creativity, leadership, and above all, what it really takes to operate at the highest level of the culinary world. So, whether you're a chef, a pastry lover, an entrepreneur, or simply someone who is fascinated by world-class performance, you're going to absolutely enjoy this conversation. As always, please don't forget to share this to as many people as possible. Well, let's get on with the show. Make sure you listen up for a story about how he learned to speak English. Time to rock and roll. Just before we begin, here is a small message from this week's guest.

SPEAKER_01

Bonjour, bonjour, I'm Nicolas Lambert, PSP chef of the Two Four Seasons here in Dubai. If you like the podcast, make sure to follow, share, and subscribe.

SPEAKER_00

Nicholas, a very warm welcome to the show. Now, what we always ask the guests, in the first question, is can you tell me your first or favorite childhood food memory, please?

SPEAKER_01

Yes, of course, of course. So I have many to be honest, because for me it's more about smelling, taste, because as you know, I'm born in the bakery of my parents. So from a young age, I have always this smell of yeast, this smell of uh fresh bread in the morning, uh, smell of the meringue. Because during the afternoon, when I was going back to school, my father was always making big meringue like this, you know, in the oven. This caramelized meringue smelling, it's all my childhood.

SPEAKER_00

Nice.

SPEAKER_01

But you you said you were born in the bakery? Kind of, because um, my parents open the bakery when we have 16 months. Right. So, like very, very young. Yeah, I start to walk my first uh uh step in in the bakery, so it was really my playground.

SPEAKER_00

And and uh which which part of France was that?

SPEAKER_01

So northeast, uh name is Les Vosges, it's Epinal, the city uh close to Alsace, not too far from Strasbourg.

SPEAKER_00

Right.

SPEAKER_01

So it's like a mountain place.

SPEAKER_00

Okay. And can you tell me, you know, what what would be a sort of typical work day for your parents?

SPEAKER_01

So my father and mother, of course, they were booking together, but uh my father was wake up every early in the morning, like between three and four in the morning, right? Uh working six days a week. So I always see my parents as uh hard worker people, of course, working during the weekend, during uh festive period, and all this kind of thing. So I'm I was habit to have people uh working too much, let's say. So for me, it's uh normal now to work also during this kind of period because it was all my education was like this.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, and so so how was it for you growing up in in that environment?

SPEAKER_01

It was uh fun because we play a lot, you know, with flower and all the tools, and sometimes can be dangerous. Yes, yeah, but we have a lot of uh fun because I have a twin brother, uh-huh, so you know, together, same age. Yeah, it was a disaster. Yeah, we make a lot of mistakes. If I speak about it, it will be too long. Oh, we do a lot of big mistakes, but uh it was fun, uh not easy because my parents were working a lot, so I spent a lot of time with my grandparents, with my uncle. Uh it was a big part of my life because he don't have too much time to educate us, they were really focused on the business, and that's why also we don't have brother and sister, because it was already enough to troublemaker running around in the bakery.

SPEAKER_00

More than enough. And how how big was the bakery then?

SPEAKER_01

Uh start very small because it was just my father and my mother. Uh they taking care of this uh bakery for 35 years, uh, they just two years ago stop for retirement, and uh uh at the end there was like 10 uh people working there. No beautiful bakery, right? Beautiful bread. I miss too much the bread of my father.

SPEAKER_00

And and the so the culture in France, specifically when it comes to bakeries and bread, uh it's always collect you know, the first bakery is you know, people will come and collect the baguette, let's say, in the morning, and all that kind of stuff, but also in the afternoon, right, they'll come and collect just before dinner. So, what time would the bakery close?

SPEAKER_01

Well, they open at six in the morning because we have a lot of people, it was like a road where people going to work, uh so they open very early at six until seven every day, yeah, six days a week. Wow. It's tough for 45 years. That's uh all the time.

SPEAKER_00

Wow. So that work ethic, you must have picked it up from your parents from both of them. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Wow, and part of my education, always they speak like if you want something in your life, you need to work.

SPEAKER_00

But then look, when you were not in the bakery and you were in school, in high school, uh Can you tell me the sort of the types of uh subjects and maybe the foods that you liked or maybe didn't like? Well, I was so well I would say from the age of let's say eleven to sixteen. Yeah. What were the foods that you really liked? And also I want to know your the school subjects that you really enjoyed or maybe did not enjoy too much.

SPEAKER_01

I really like art sport because I was not very good at school. Uh I was not very focused on what I was learning for, because uh I don't know, I need to, I'm like this by nature, I need to be interested by what I'm learning, or I didn't catch the moments. Okay. So that's why when I feel like I was not uh good to continue to learn at school, I said, okay, let's go more on manual things because I was very good for that.

SPEAKER_02

Okay.

SPEAKER_01

And for me, PS3 was part of my um I don't know. DNA. Yes, I even didn't choose oh what I will do when I will be uh um a big man, I don't know, yes, I'll be a policeman, I will be an astronaut. No, no, I will be a PS3 chef. It was like natural.

SPEAKER_00

So it was a natural choice for to carry on the career, yeah, right? So so was there a conversation with your parents that you know you you wanted to do it, or or or there wasn't a conversation you said to them, this is what I want to do.

SPEAKER_01

It was, it was. Because uh my father is baker, pure baker, and my twin brother and myself, we want to do a pastry. So my father don't understand why you want to do pastry. I'm a baker. So I don't know, we like pastry, we like the fact it's very precise, details. So both of us we go to pastry, but you never understand why we don't go to bakery. Right. We know how to make bread, you know, yes, but we are more pastry chef than bakery chef. And uh he was never understand that. And at the beginning, uh, because we was not good at school, not very good students. So he said, okay, if you want to learn pastry, you will go somewhere else than my bakery, because I want you to know in the tough way how to learn. Because with me it will be too easy. Yeah, you are at home, it's papa, mama, you know. Yes, so he said, Okay, let's go outside. So when we find a job at 15 years old to start the in the learning process in France for five years, uh he go to see our first boss, he said, Okay, make them miserable, make them make them feel that it's very hard, you know.

SPEAKER_00

The the the yeah, the work life.

SPEAKER_01

And it was like this.

SPEAKER_00

So well then tell me about that apprenticeship. I mean, five years from the age of 15.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, you start at 15. Very tough because you are young, yeah, two years of pastry, one year of uh chocolates, and two years of like pastry plus plus is then BTM, it's like specification to be uh higher level. But yes, five years in the same place with the same boss for me is like my second father, right? Because I learned pastry, of course, but also he he educated myself because you know 15 to 20 are like not totally finished. Yes, yes, and uh he he really give me uh a vision of life, uh the way to manage, the way to treat people. I really learned a lot from him, not only about pastry, a small pastry shop, it's just himself and myself, but pure pastry, and I learned really bases, but bases are very important, and I realized that these five years really determinate my entire life. And now when I see him, I feel like he's my second father, but not as a world, he really finished my education. What's his name? Philippe Torti. Wow, yeah, beautiful person.

SPEAKER_00

And uh so if you take me back then to the first six months of that apprenticeship, yeah, 15 years old, yeah. How was it?

SPEAKER_01

It was uh excited, but at the same time tough because you still have your friends from school and they have like uh living the dream, you know, during the weekend, they go to clubs and they have girlfriends and they go out and they do things, but you need to go to work. And uh you work on Saturday, Sunday, then they go for party. So why you go to party? No, no, I need to go to work. So you have a lot of friends that I remember making jokes about you, you know. Oh, go to make your apple tart and uh we do party, you know. It's okay.

SPEAKER_00

But that was tough sometimes.

SPEAKER_01

No, it was tough because you are young, you are very young, 15, super young. And uh and I'm lucky that it was my my way, you know, and I find my way because you took on our the motivation and the passion, that's why a lot stop to this internship because it's too difficult. It's too difficult.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah. But I think it's also uh quite incredible you know, that an apprenticeship is five years. Yeah, honestly, it must have taught you so much, of course, in terms of the operation and and and the basis, but as you said, you know, by the by the end of it you were the finished product. Yeah, that must have been incredible for you.

SPEAKER_01

No, no, it was a good experience, but it was like three weeks at work, one week at school.

SPEAKER_00

Right.

SPEAKER_01

Like this for five years. So it's good because you keep the notion to learn things at school, uh basic things, you know, plus be at work.

SPEAKER_00

And are you still taking exams every year? How does it work? Like now? No, no, no. As in like during the apprenticeship, did you have to take any sort of exams?

SPEAKER_01

Of course, of course, of course. After two years, you have the CAP Petisier, after one year you have the Monsieur Complémentaire en Chocolaterie Confiserie, and after two years the BTM. So it's three different exams that you do at the end of the year. Yeah, sure.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. So after you finished those exams, where was your next move? Because you were newly qualified, let's say.

SPEAKER_01

So me to be honest, I want to stay there. I want to stay in the same place with the same boss because I was very happy. And I was doing paragliding uh because it was uh uh doing paragliding a lot. Right. I I learned paragliding with him. So every weekend we go to paragliding together. So it was more than a boss yeah. Nice. We spent even the weekend together. We fly together, so it was very crazy. Yeah, yeah. And uh so I don't want to stay. He was the only one that uh to break my heart first, because he said, Okay, now you need to leave. And I was like, Why? I'm happy here, I'm good, I'm your friends, you know. He said, No, no, finish, you need to go. I said, Why? Because he said you for you, this city and this region is too small. You are too much passionate, you are too much dream because I was watching the magazine and things you know about big chef. He was always saying you need to work with this kind of people, you need to work with this kind of people. But I like to be there. But he said, No, no, you need to move. And I said, Okay, okay, I will move. So I move. And I moved for one year in uh Nancy, uh for Yves Muscar, kind of a big pastry shop in Nancy, right? Where they do like very classic things from the beginning, uh all the pralinate, chocolate, liquor. So I really learn also basic, but in the bigger team. And after that, based on my girlfriend at this time, I move to Lyon, yeah, is where I start to work for Sebastian Gouillet.

SPEAKER_00

So so they say that Lyon is is the capital of gastronomy in France. Yes, yes, yes, yes. Is that true?

SPEAKER_01

For me, yes. Okay, I lived there for three years, and uh when I was in Nancy, you know, with my parents uh one time per year, so every two years we go to Syrah in Lyon to visit Syrah as uh you know all the chef, and uh so I was going with my parents and I saw the vitrine of uh Bouillet, Sébastien Bouillet at this moment. I was shocked how it's possible to do PC like this. It was beautiful, so perfect, so so elegant. And when I come back to Levol, I said, Okay, next year I want to go to Lyon and I want to go to work for him. So I push to go to work there. I sent my resume, it was uh going for testing day, was like five candidates, and I have the chance to be to be choose, and I spent there three years. Beautiful experience.

SPEAKER_00

What was you what were the biggest lessons from those three years working at such a place?

SPEAKER_01

Very difficult because uh I started alone with my chef. After move to Nancy, it was like eight, ten people maximum. And when I moved there, it was like a 28 people, six shop, so huge structure. So it was uh I learned how to work with many, many people. Yeah, so it was very good experience. It was a shock for you to work with so many people? Yes, at the beginning, because there were people from coming from everywhere in France, uh, because it was the place to work at this moment, and uh and for me it was beautiful because it's the first time I feel like everybody was uh kind of like me, you know, passionate, a lot of dream, want to learn, so doing people competition, well doing many many things in the same time. So it was very cool.

SPEAKER_00

And that that environment, Nicholas, how competitive was it within the team, within those 28 people? Did you all you know get on like a family or was it very competitive?

SPEAKER_01

No, family, family, family competitive, of course, because everybody wants to grow, everybody wants to learn, everybody, but after in a nice way, okay, not like in the bad way.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, okay. No, no, no. I got you in a very good way. So when did you make the decision then to move to the big city of Paris?

SPEAKER_01

Again, my girlfriend. Because at this moment, my girlfriend makes me move to Lyon, and after three years in Lyon, she said I need to go to Paris to continue my uh my study. And um when uh one day I come back to work, she said, okay, no, I need to move to Paris. I say, Wow, okay, Lyon is good, no? I'm like this, you know. Why you want to move? I said, Okay, okay, so let's let's let's move to Paris. So I go to see Sébastien, my boss, and I say, Okay, uh chef, sorry, but I need to go. He said, Why? I want to give you a promotion, stay with me, no no no. We are very happy about you. I say, okay, no, but it's not about that. If I don't leave, I will lose my girlfriend, so I will need to live with her. So I say, okay, okay, where do you want to go? I said, I need to go to Paris. Okay, where you want to go to Paris? I say, okay, for me, Plaza Atini, Christophe Michelac, nothing else. He said, Okay, I will call him. Like this. He takes a call, he called him, he said, Hi Christophe, how are you? Uh I have someone top for you. Um you are looking for someone? Yes, yes, yes. Ask him to come tomorrow. What? I mean like this, like clack clack, clack, clack, clack. And boom, I take the train the day after, move to Paris, uh, go to meet Christophe Michalak in Plaza Athenae.

SPEAKER_00

The next day.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, the next day, like straight away. Yeah, crazy. Yeah, life is like this. Talk to him, la la la, and um he give me a position. And three months after I move to Paris. Yeah, I move to Paris.

SPEAKER_00

So look, we I have to talk about that. So Plaza Athenae is one of the most iconic places, uh not only in France, it's but it's just an incredibly iconic hotel with huge culinary history. Um I want to understand how was the culture working there? Because by now, you know, you'd you'd worked with people, you you knew your craft really, really well, yeah, but you were moving to a much sort of higher level, more elite, I would say. Tell me about it.

SPEAKER_01

It was another level, like you said, something unique because it's Paris, it's Plaza Tene, it's a palace. So I was thinking um what I learned before was amazing and technique and whatever you want, but when you arrive in this kind of place, you see the excellence and the perfection at the level that you never see before. Because it's different when you do uh, for example, uh many many cakes that need to go in six shop, transportation, drivers, timing. We need to go, guys. Then working in the palace where everything is done in the palace to be consumed in the palace.

SPEAKER_02

Right.

SPEAKER_01

So everything is fresh at a minute. Uh you can really play with texture, we have different kinds of restaurants because before I never worked in a restaurant, I never do plating dessert. So I really learned different techniques, different skills. So it was yes, a totally new experience.

SPEAKER_00

How big was the team?

SPEAKER_01

It was big also. Exactly how many people I don't know, but between 25 and 30, I think.

SPEAKER_00

Just in the pastry?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah. It was uh Frisou chef, the chef, Jean-Marie Blau, Christian Fichelek, the chef, of course. It was now it was a big team because it's seven uh days a week operation, 24 hours a day, so it's always someone in pastry, so it's yeah, it's a unique place.

SPEAKER_00

And uh you know, tell me about the operation. So was it more sort of uh banqueting or private, you know, the types of people that were coming in?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, so it's Plazatene, inside Plazatene, you have at this moment you have Anna Ducas, that it was the free Michelin star restaurant. So he has his own team with a pastry chef in charge of this restaurant. At this time was Michael Bartolchetti, that now is the pastry chef of Forces in Paris. He was the chef of Anna Ducasse at this moment. So we were together in the same place and we were taking care of a Le Relais. It's kind of the brasserie, all the banqueting room, of course, and uh all the galleries des Gobelins is like the lounge plus the terrace, room service, of course. It was a lot of different kinds of outlets. But each people have a specific responsibility. At some parts, I was in charge of the relay, after I was in charge of the uh night shift production. We have also a bakery team that was working during the night. So everybody has his task, right?

SPEAKER_00

But we all work together, but in 24 hours operation, so it's and how was the the culture within the team there? Uh specifically again within culinary and pastry.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Again, was it super competitive, more family, or was it more corporate?

SPEAKER_01

Not competitive, and I feel an energy there that I never feel in my career, still even now. It was uh very special. I work with very special people, it was really like a family because we were all in Paris but not from Paris. So it was like uh no family, no friends. We spent a lot of time at work, and at this moment it was like uh four people in the same time doing uh competition. So it was the energy was crazy. It was like Maxence Barbeau was doing uh Chopinat France des Desserts, uh Jimmy was doing uh Coupe d'Europe or uh sugar, artistic sugar, and uh Alexis Bouillet was doing uh Olympia des Metier, I was doing a Pascal Cafe, chocolate shoppies. So it was like even during the weekend, after work, coming at work, working together, even like people from the team helping us to create something, create the molds. So it's give a really special energy, like you know, like uh one team, one direction, and one goal. It was all working for Michelac and of course Jean-Marie Ebleau. Yeah, that for us was like uh more than God. Of course. They can say whatever they want, and it was like chef.

SPEAKER_00

But I mean it sounds really special, uh it sounds absolutely spectacular. But then again, after a few years, you decided to make a move to again another sort of technical level. Why did you decide to move?

SPEAKER_01

I decided to move because Plaza was on the way to close, and I was thinking okay, what I'm doing next. Uh Chef Michelac wanted me to go with him to do uh this concept of master classes that he did, this beautiful concept. But I was like uh, I don't know. For me, Paris was good, but I need to see something else than Paris because it was also tough. I was living in the small small apartment of nine meters, you know, no toilet, uh sharing the toilet with four apartments. It was no washing machine, it was yes, three years, very tough. So I said, Okay, I did it, now I want to see something else. And uh when I was doing the Trophy Pascal Cafe, I have the chance to have uh as a coach for Chocolate Shoppies, Jerome Dolveira, that he win the P3 World Cup with the Chocolate Shoppies. He was my coach during this period, and at the end of the competition, Plaza Tene was closing. He said, Oh, by the way, what are you doing? I said, Um, I don't know. So come to Cannes. Uh I have a new position if you want. I have planned to open a shop in Monaco, many projects. If you want to be part, please come. I said, Okay, why not? And you knew to the south of France. Already, exactly. So you go back to the south of France, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And and look, I want to understand how was it working for such an incredible guy? And and for for perhaps the people watching or listening who don't know the background of this chef, can you tell me a little bit more about him?

SPEAKER_01

About Jerome? Yes, it's genius, it's really genius. But first of all, we work in the same place, but we never work together. Because when I arrived to Bouillet, Jerome was in Bouillet but moved to Plaza Athene. And when I arrived to Plaza Athene, Jerome moved to Cannes to open his space wishop. Right. So we always know each other for a long time, a lot of friends in commands, and uh he's like the son of Christophe Michelac because he worked with Michelac for many years as the sous-chef. He win the World Cup with Michelac as a coach, so they are very, very close. And uh and I heard a lot of good things about Jerome, and Jerome still even now is the younger ever uh world champion, and uh to to work with this kind of people it's a chance because uh for me he's the kind of guys that he has natural inspiration, creativity, and I was so uh admire admired admiration about that. I was like, wow, he's a genius with nothing, he can do something very cool. So I want to work with him, you know. That's why I decided to go to work with him, and it was a mix of uh uh bouillet experience because it was shop uh and all these kind of things, plus it was also an hotel where we do also uh the breakfast and all these kind of things. So it was kind of mix of plaza atenae, shop. So I was super excited about this project.

SPEAKER_00

And and so this project in particular, just for me to understand, so so it was pastry, chocolates, and an operation in itself. Yeah, exactly. And that must have been quite challenging. Again, coming from Plaza Athenae, yeah, incredible energy, yeah, but then coming back down again and and doing something completely different. Yeah, how long did you stay there for?

SPEAKER_01

Close to two or something. Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And you were uh sous-chef petit there, right? Exactly. Okay. So then all of this time you'd been in France, all over France. So how did the position come about? Uh and I want to understand the decision also for you to move to Hong Kong because it's a very different place.

SPEAKER_01

Very different, very different. Life is just small details that make the difference, and this small details was my wife. Uh that I told you, she is also from Venezuela. And um, so she was in France as an internship, so I meet her as an intern. She was speaking manual language, and she was always telling me, Okay, you are good, you are nice, whatever you want, but you don't speak English. I said, Okay, and and she said, But you need to go outside of your country. It's a lot of things to see, a lot of things to discover. You can share your knowledge, uh, you can meet beautiful people, but you need to go out of your country to see that it's something else than this country. I was like, Oh no, like usual, I'm good here. Why you need to move? And uh and the declique, uh, it was uh um one day Michelak called me uh and he asked me if I was interested to do uh the bigger event ever he never made. I said, Okay, what is it, chef? He said it's a wedding of 4,000 people in India. Are you okay with that? I said yes, maybe, because I need someone that knows what is it big production, like Sébastien Bouillet, and also my desire in creation like Plaza Atene, but did it for 4,000 people and in India. So I said, okay, why not? Uh when it will be, give me the date. And uh he said, So think about it. I talked to Giro, na na na. I said, okay, okay, let's see. And uh he called me back and I said, Okay, I cannot because I don't speak English, but I only have one condition, I want to go, but I take my girlfriend at this moment with me because she speaks English. Okay, okay, let me check what I can do. No, no, no, no. So we go together in India for 12 days uh to make all this mise en place uh for the wedding. We have like 38 Indian uh to helping us for the mise en place, and uh this experience really changed my life in many many ways. Because uh I realized how it was difficult to do uh the kind of pastry that we are doing in France, make the same quality in India uh based on the weather, product, staff, skills, material, how it was challenging, and I like it. I say, wow, it's it's it's exciting because it's difficult to make like we do in France, like it look very easy because we have the chance to have beautiful products, beautiful staff, beautiful everything. And uh I like this this experience, and also I realized how it was very important to speak English because I was so excited to explain to them, but I was not able to do it. So I feel so frustrated. So I was talking to my wife, she was translated, giving the information, and at the end of the 12 days, she was the boss, and I was like nothing. I was like, What? She is my intern in France, I have many years' experience, it's true, and I was like, How is it possible? And uh because just the fact she speaks English and she can translate all the recipe and knowledge, she was the chef. So I said, Wow, okay, so I need to speak English, I need to be able to give my experience to the world. So I come back to France, it was big declique, big uh experience, human experience, very special uh moment. And uh when I come back, I say okay, I'm ready to go uh outside of France. So I give my resume to all my chefs to help me to find a job. I say, not complicated. I just want to go somewhere where I can speak English and learn English because my level was uh zero zero.

SPEAKER_00

Okay.

SPEAKER_01

As I told you I was not very good at school, so I like colors, number, and that's it. And um I want to work for mission star restaurants because I don't have the skills. I have shop, palace, but mission star I don't have. So I said, okay, I want to do mission star. So I go around the world, different opportunities. And uh Julien Dugourd was in La Chevredor, so close to Cannes, he said, Oh, yeah, my chef Fabrice Villin, that was a chef in La Chevredor. Um, if you want, he's looking for a place to chef in Hong Kong. Why not? So I said, Maybe let's try. So we start to communicate. It was French, so super easy, good interview. Okay, let's go for it. But after I go for the next level on interview, director FNB, director of the hotel, disaster, because I don't understand anything. So they come back to chef Vulin and said, Okay, sorry, you guys maybe it's good, but they don't speak English. We cannot hire someone as a chef that don't speak English and never work at Mission Star restaurants. So I said, Okay, it's not for me. So Fabrice called me, sorry, but I try, but it will be not possible. So okay, so I was looking around and like 10 days after Fabrice called me back. He said, Are you still available? I said, Yes. Why? He said, Because uh I want to take you. I said, Okay, but why? He said, Because I called uh your chef, Michelek, and he said, Okay, don't speak English, he never played a dessert in a Michelin star restaurant, but please take him, and you will see we'll be not disappointed.

SPEAKER_00

This season of the Chef JKP podcast is proudly brought to you by Eliver Professional. For 80 years, this iconic French dairy house from Normandy has been trusted by gastronomes, renowned pastry chefs, and culinary professionals around the world for its exceptional creams and butters. Built on heritage, craftsmanship, innovation, and of course, uncompromising quality. Eliver continues to inspire creativity in kitchens across more than 120 countries, from everyday excellence to the world's most prestigious culinary stages. Eliver is a true partner of excellence. To discover more, head over to www.elevere.com. That's el e-t-vi-re-e.com. Now back to the episode. That that must have been amazing for you.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, what a reference. Yes, but on the same time, big pressure because uh I don't want to disappoint him and I want to prove that he's right. But uh I said, okay, I'm okay to do it and to accept a big challenge, but I've never been to Asia, first of all. I don't know the culture. Second, I never work in Michelin Star, so I start directly by two Michelin Star, it's already big. It was already a two start. It's already two at this moment, yeah. So it was tough. And um I said, and give me English classes because I because you can see I don't speak English. So he said, okay, okay, we will do all this kind of thing. So I start six months with two hours of uh English per week to learn English, step by step. Yeah, spending a lot of time with my team. I have seven people with me for pastry because Caprice was a big restaurant, yeah, uh open seven days a week, lunch and dinner.

SPEAKER_00

So it was big, big machine, big machine, and uh beautiful experience, the harder experience ever in my life, hardest because uh from the the language barrier or from Michelin and also first time away from home. It was a mix of everything.

SPEAKER_01

I think if I was at this moment alone without my wife, after one month, I will come back to France. Yeah, it was so tough. I was even coming back home crying, and uh she was like, it's okay, you can do it, you can do it. But it's difficult. It was first time far from my twin brother and my parents. Uh, the difficulty of the culture, the language, the frustration to not be able to communicate when you are on the pass and the the guys from the service come to you, you don't understand what he's talking about, guests want to talk to you, but you cannot talk to the guest, you feel very frustrated.

SPEAKER_02

Sure, sure.

SPEAKER_01

And uh plus the pressure, of course, of Bichel and Star and everything. So it's many, many things together. So it was super tough, but uh beautiful experience. I grow a lot, but I grow a lot. Uh it was my first position as a chef, of course, but I grow a lot as a person, as a human, because uh I I realized that um I know nothing and I need to start from zero. I learned to meet different cultures, different people. I have the chance to travel a lot during these three years. Uh, we visit uh like 15 countries with my wife in Asia, so it was a beautiful experience also for us, and uh yeah, I think I changed my mind, I really opened my mind.

SPEAKER_00

And you learned English as well, yes, which was good. Not the best, as you can see. I have to say, it's not it's not all bad. I mean, uh you you got uh Asia's best pastry chef, 50 best, yeah, you know, um, and the youngest, uh 30 years old at the time. Yeah, that must have been quite special for you.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, very special, very special, and uh um his arrival so at the time of uh it was three years already. Um I was invited for this beautiful event in Macao for the World 50 Pires, beautiful events, the bigger but Axel Godefroy, my uh executive chef now, is where I met him. He was the the executive chef there, right? And he prepared all these events, so I meet him at this moment, small market, but and um I go there, we was like all invited from everywhere in Asia, a lot of pace with chefs, a lot of chefs, a lot of people, beautiful events. And um, I didn't know anything about what will happen this night. But when I win, it was like uh so you didn't know at all? I didn't know anything, it was beautiful, even more special because of that, because I was I didn't know I will win. So I've been there, I even don't mean with my wife, so I just go like this. And uh it was I remember this evening was a lot of emotion in the same time um for my family, for my parents, no, for where I'm from, yeah, of course, and for the difficulty of the beginning, yeah, uh, for many many things. Also, to thank also my wife for the support for the last three years because also not easy for her to live in Asia, uh, because uh, as you know, she's from South America, and South America people in Asia it's different culture, different manitude. Yes, so she was not uh easy moment for her, and um, and yes, after uh these things, I remember I came back home, I was super excited with my trophy and everything, and I give to my wife, thank you. And she said, Okay, so now we can go. I said, Go where? Where you want to go? Again, the same question. Why? Why? And uh and um and she said, Okay, you did what you need to do, you get your trophy. Uh three years is good. Uh the restaurant is working very well, so now it's time to move. I said, Okay, why not? Okay, but I was not really ready for that because I just win this trophy. I was thinking, yeah, at least for one year, I will enjoy, you know. But uh yeah, she told me no, now it's time. Uh I want also a family, I want to build a family, we are far from family, it's time for us to come back to normal life because she was working for Claire Degeny, Christophe Adam, and she was working like uh five in the morning to like five in the afternoon.

SPEAKER_02

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_01

And Mia was working uh until two in the morning. Sure. So physically we saw each other one day a week, so four days a month we see each other. So it was too difficult because we work six days a week at this moment, and uh we said okay, we need to stop this crazy life, it's a good experience, but now it's time to be focused on us uh because we just get married, be focused on build a family and having the kids. So we say okay, let's come back close to home, and uh that's why I've been to St. Petersburg.

SPEAKER_00

So when you say close to home, so of course you've done your time in Hong Kong. So tell me about that decision about you know going to St. Petersburg because again, a very different culture, again, yeah, uh still with the same group, so four seasons, yeah. But tell me about that move.

SPEAKER_01

So this move is based on uh one person, uh Hervé Fuchsot. For me, life in I don't know how to say it like uh career is really on meeting people, and some people that you meet really change your life. And Hervé was also part of this kind of person uh because he was uh the executive chef when I arrived to Hong Kong. So he really see me like at the bad time when it was very difficult. My first year in Hong Kong, he really supports me because he was also French, and he saw that I was young, uh fresh, I need to learn. And uh he was big support at this time in Hong Kong, and he was the the first uh executive chef in the company to move from executive chef to uh director FNB. Right. So he moved as a director FNB in fourth season St. Petersburg. And from the beginning, as a joke, he said, Oh, one day you will come to be my PS3 chef. So it's okay, let's see one day it's St. Petersburg, I don't know, you know. And um after one year he was there as a director FNB. He invited me for promotion to do a promotion, like after Monty master classes with VIP, one week in St. Petersburg, never been in Russia, and we've been there. Wow, in love with the people, in love with the city. My wife, she loved too much.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, so she loved it. She loved it.

SPEAKER_01

The boss, but they make it also in the way that to make sure she loves it, you know. Very good, of course. Yes, but uh yes, she she has a tourist guide, she visits the city, she has a nice moment in the city, and she loves it. And um and I love people there, yeah. I love the hotel, I love Hervé, of course. And um I come back to Hong Kong and I say, Oh, why not? Just three hours from Paris, different culture. I was not thinking about going to Russia. I know that you will be tough because of the weather, we'll be tough also about product as the pastry chef because you know it was the embargo that we cannot use any product from Europe, right? So it was challenging, especially on dairy, on flour. But I said, that's right.

SPEAKER_00

But look, you were there for some time. Yeah, you were already very well established and respected within the pastry world, right? Uh I have to ask, you know, apart from the challenges of dairy and flour and all this kind of stuff, again, how big was the team that you were working for there?

SPEAKER_01

Uh at the beginning was uh nine, okay, not too big, okay. Small team. Uh but when I left, we were like 15 after three years.

SPEAKER_00

And what about the the language barrier?

SPEAKER_01

Super difficult. Yeah, very difficult. At the beginning, when I arrived, uh I have nine people, as I told you. Only one person was speaking English. The entire team was not speaking English, so very, very little, little. So is there really only speaking Russian? So I was speaking to my sous-chef, and my sous chef was speaking to the team. So at the beginning was difficult to make things changing because I was just dealing with one person. Um, but it was an experience, one more time, and uh all the system, I don't know, like ordering uh products, meeting supplier, it was in Russian. So don't speak Russian, too, yeah, yeah. But uh it was difficult.

SPEAKER_00

But look, obviously you did very well there, yeah. Very, very well. It was very cool. And you know, life again knocking on the door for another move.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So and I want to know now, of course, uh how were you approached or how was the decision taken to move to the Middle East and to Dubai?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. So it was uh COVID time in Russia. Uh so I spent eight months without my family, so it was very tough because they come back to France and after uh they stop the connection between Russia and France. Yeah, so I was alone in Russia, but was in France. So in eight months, I just spent one time the time to go there. After eight months, I said, okay, let's finish. Because we don't know for how long. So I start to decide to stop in St. Petersburg and come back to France. And when I was on the way to do the moving, because I resigned from forces in St. Petersburg, they said, okay, okay, you resign because you want to see your family, we respect that. But we want to keep you in the company, so please give us some time, we will find something cool for you. So okay, no problem, but it's COVID, I want to be with my family. Let me go back home. Let's continue to talk and we will see what will happen. So I was on the way to organize all the moving to France, coming back home. And the week of the moving, uh, I received a call from uh like uh John Lucas Paracino, who was the big boss FNB for all Middle East. And he just I saw a call from Dubai and take the call. Oh, and John Luca, why are you? I would like to know if you're available to talk. So we talked a little bit. He said, Um I'm ready to open a new position in Dubai as a senior executive pace we chef, to taking care of our two hotels for the you know the after COVID to rebuild everything, create two new teams and make it happen again. So are you interested in by this opportunity? And I said, Okay, yes, why not? And uh the the declique, it's uh the my last year in St. Petersburg. I have the chance to go to Four Seasons Bahrain uh to do one week of promotion there also, you know, after 90 masterclass one more time. And uh it was the most successful promotion I did with four seasons because in total I do like uh 10-12 last past years in different country, different region. And um this one was the number one about success, like crazy, like line of people waiting, uh fighting for a table, and I feel like the how people are really attracted by the sweets, by the French pastry, and I said, uh maybe after maybe after St. Petersburg can be a place that pastry chef can really enjoy because people like sweets. So I said when why not? And when they offered me Dubai, I said I remember about dying, I said maybe Dubai is a good move for me.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, so then did the wife come straight away, or did you come for a trial to understand the culture of Dubai and the Middle East, or you just came straight in? Straight in.

SPEAKER_01

Wow, straight in, good question. Straight in because of my experience in Hong Kong, because uh the the big lesson that I learned uh when I accept Hong Kong, I was so excited about this opportunity. I moved to Hong Kong, but I didn't even ask how is the pastry, what you have about uh tools, how you work, nothing about work, and I go there. And the first week I say, Wow, I have only this fridge, I have only this freezer, it's too small, I don't even have that. And I realized that if you have too much information before, maybe you don't go. So sometimes better to go and you manage yourself to make it happen. Yes, exactly, then think too much and calculate and hesitate. Oh, I'm not sure. Do you know because of that? Just go and make it happen. And uh from this time, St. Petersburg, same, but I was there for the promotion, so I saw the pastry before. Yeah, but I don't ask many questions, like okay, let's go for it and we will make it happen. And Dubai was the same. I even didn't ask how is the pastry? Show me the pastry. I said, No, no, I will come and we will make it happen.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, brilliant. So they offered you two hotels, yeah, right. Uh, and I am assuming that's the first time in your career that you were looking after two properties at the same time. Yeah, so again, a big jump, different uh you know, way to work, different uh religions, different people, different nationalities to manage. But this time again, you had experience under your belt, everybody was able to speak a bit more English and French, I'm assuming as well, which was good. But uh what was very interesting is that shortly after you received and you were in Dubai, then you were given, and rightly so, one of the biggest sort of um certifications or award in the land of all things pastry. Yeah. Uh so the prix d'excellence.

SPEAKER_03

Yes.

SPEAKER_00

Now, for people who don't know about this, can you give me a little bit of background as to what it is? Is the Roller de Serre.

SPEAKER_01

So Rollet de Serre, uh for example, Sebastian Bouillet, when I was working in Lyon, was a Roller desert. And Roller deserres is an association of like the 100 best uh chef in the world. Pastry. Pastry, like a cake shop, right? Like uh Sebastian Bouillet style. And um it's like association of 100, it's very close, and they do like one times per year kind of ceremony when they do awards and things like this. And to me, to have this this recognition uh by all these chefs was huge. And you didn't know it all. I know that I was nominated, we were four, so I go to Paris. So, how do you get how do you get nominated? To be honest, I don't know. I think it's all of them that decide 100 people. I think they vote for who they want, and after you are nominated and you go there, and I don't know how they decide, and uh and you win like this. Yeah, but uh for me it was a very special moment because Pierre Hermé was uh the president of Rollet Dessert, and uh Christophe Michelac was there, and uh Jerome Dolivera was there, and so I remember on the on the stage with uh Pierre Hermier, Christophe Michelac, Jerome Dolivera, and Sébastien Bouillet also was there. So it was all my chef together on the stage many years after. So for me it was very very special moment, and I always remember I have even one page in my local uh uh journal bouge matter first page.

SPEAKER_00

I'm sure your parents framed that and kept it in the bakery.

SPEAKER_01

This is true because in the bakery they were selling the um they were selling the newspaper every day, so a huge amount of newspaper, and on this day they put uh knife.

SPEAKER_00

This is my son. But must have been also quite quite emotional for you with all of you know the people that you work with previously, and all of the hard work and the sacrifice that you've been through before.

SPEAKER_01

Many sacrifice, yeah. And each time you you see, everywhere I pass by between two and three years average, but each time uh it's uh you need to start from zero. It's very difficult. That's why sometimes people think about oh, you have the chance, you are very lucky. But on the same point, if you don't push yourself, and me usually, as you see, it was always girlfriends that make me make the move usually. And uh, if you don't have this person to kick you, uh you stay comfortable, you do five, six, seven, nine, ten years in the same place, and but you don't learn, you don't develop yourself in the same way.

SPEAKER_00

But look, now you've been in the position for some time here in Dubai, and uh you know you've built your family here, you built your team, and of course, you know, you have um enhanced your reputation in the pastry world. Um at the same time, I want to ask you you've also competed in a lot of competitions, you also judge a lot of competitions. Now from a let's say a young chef, young pastry chef perspective, when you are in those competitions, what what are the the most important things you need to do to be you know super prepared? Because if you've never ever gone into a competition like that, what could be some of the mistakes that you could make?

SPEAKER_01

Good question. Very good question. So, first of all, I have many people in my team that do competition last past years. For me, before to start a competition, is really, really think about what you really want to do and which kind of uh story you want to give to the people. And behind all this showpiece or plating dessert, you need to have a story and you have something very true that makes you believe that you need to go in this way. Okay. This one I cannot tell you as a chef, you need to go that, you need to do this chocolate dessert. You need to be personal, that based on where you're from or childhood something that gives you the direction. Very important to have something that you wake up every morning and you want to fight for it because you believe in this project. Gotcha. So this is the most important. And after that, you have the part of reflection, organization, before to start to work. Because sometimes when you are too young, you are too much excited and you want to start to work from the first week. Let's go, let's do it, let's go. And you are losing time because you don't know really where you want to go. You start to make some tests, doesn't work, another test doesn't work. So take your time to build really what you want to do, organize yourself, draw, think about, ask advice about how to make the mold, how to make these techniques, and after start to work. To don't lose your time on preparation. Sure. And after organization is the key to be very organized, very precise. Because what judges are looking for is also set is to see not only a beautiful showpiece, but to see also a beautiful professional about the way he's working, how it's clean, how he's precise, how he's on time. Also, time is very important.

SPEAKER_00

So you must have seen and and you must have also experienced all of these things, you know, maybe not being too organized before or not had. And also I want to ask you you know, you did this five-year apprenticeship, yeah, which I think is honestly, I think it's amazing. But now when you see the new talent coming through, and of course you you have many different people in your team, many different cultures. Is it challenging to train them in the same way?

SPEAKER_01

Yes, now I speak as as an old guy, you know, but uh it's changed a lot. The new generation, it's uh they are like um more worried, they want directly to achieve, directly to go to the next level. They are less patient than us, right? And uh to learn uh this job, it's take time because it's a manual job. You need to move your hands to practice and practice and practice to be good. And uh so it's take time, and sometimes they want already to know how to glaze and make the decoration a beautiful cake, before how to make a nice biscuit or a nice texture of the cream. Um so the base is super important. This is the most important. If you don't know how to do the base in a good way, you cannot make beautiful creation.

SPEAKER_00

Sure.

SPEAKER_01

It's like painting. If you make a beautiful painting uh art, you know, if you have a bad red, bad blue color, bad green color, even if you are a good artist, it would not good look very nice. You get my point? So you have to have a good base to be able to build a nice cake. So and also take the time. We know so sometimes people in my team, after one year, when is my next uh promotion, Jeff? It's like what? Why? But because it's already one year. But it's not about it's already one year. Is you are ready for it? You get my point? Do you have the skills to go for another level? Or you get my point? It's not about time. As you see, I spent five years to learn. Uh I spent was like 12 years experience before to be so chef. So it's take time to be uh to be a chef. And for me, career is like a marathon. It's very easy to be good now, and in five years nobody knows you. You need to be like uh consistent, you know. You need to be good for many many years, and for that you need to go slowly, slowly, but all the time to keep going.

SPEAKER_00

Well, the other thing I also wanted to ask you is of course, you know, you're you're judging lots of things, you know, you you you have awards yourself. And I feel now, I don't know about you, but I think now pastry chefs, chocolatiers, they're having their moment in the spotlight. Before it was head chefs and executive chefs and things like that, but now it feels like, and rightly so, that the pastry chefs are more and more and more in the spotlight and they're finally shining through with all of the work that they do. And and I was going to ask you how is it, you know, you have a big presence on social media, uh, and again, you're very well respected in the pastry world, but that must have been quite nice, no, to see that change, to see more chefs you know, in the media, in the spotlight, yeah, and deserving those awards.

SPEAKER_01

True, true, true, true. But uh, it's um yeah, it's this uh starification of our job, it's good, but on the same time it's also dangerous because it makes people feel that it's uh an easy job, it's only fun, it's only uh good moment and decoration, finishing, making nice picture video. But it we didn't see that the all the bad things that you need to learn before and you need to start from zero. And sometimes people don't want to start from the beginning, beginning. They want already to be a big chef. But you need to learn from the beginning, yeah. How to peel an apple, you get my point, how to prepare your mise en place, all these kinds of things you need to learn from the beginning. But people with this sterification, sometimes we forget that this base and beginning is extremely important, it takes time, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And I I have to say, I I I agree with you. I see that uh a lot of the uh the younger ones they don't want to take the time to learn. No, they don't want. And I think it's very challenging because on the other side of that, Nicholas, if you think about it, if you or if or if um a chef says, Look, I want to move on, and then they put your name in the C V, which I'm sure they do, and then they go to the next the next job, and then for some reason they're not very good, and then I'm sure that chef calls you and is like, Oh, by the way, uh this guy that's not easy, of course.

SPEAKER_03

Of course. Of course.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah. But look, the other thing is I wanted to ask you, since you've been in the Middle East, how have you seen the the world of pastry and chocolate flourish here? Yeah, because so many talents have come through from all over the world to be here. Yeah, what are your thoughts?

SPEAKER_01

Huge evolution. Five years ago, uh like I said, just after COVID, uh, we arrived a lot of friends together um in the same time. It was uh Batom Cole from Borges l'Arabe, uh Alexandre Dufeu uh was in Minasalam, uh Julien Jacob uh that was in uh Alcassar, Alcazar, sorry, Minasalam. And uh and um we arrived all together, so I think it's give also good energy. Uh all this person that I told you, we worked before together because I work with Tom and Alex in Plaza and with Julian in Jerome Dolvira. So we are very close friends, all coming like to do uh nice things. So I think it's give a good energy at this moment all together, and we always like challenging ourselves or what you are doing for Christmas, what you are doing for Easter. So it's give this kind of good energy, plus of course other chefs that came in the same time or was there already before. So I think it's give all together a nice vibe. And after like one year, we have like Goemio arrive, more fifty best arrive, uh, Michelin arrive. So it's like a lot of things. So supplier also play the game to find better products more often. So we start to be able to do very cool things, and uh and also the hotels start to uh bring you also talented persons because they start to believe on the market. So it was beautiful energy, and we can see like last five years, not only PCI and culinary worlds. What's happening in Dubai is unbelievable. It's crazy.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, absolutely. You eat so well everywhere, it's everywhere. You're absolutely right. Well, chef, look, we've now come to the quick fire questions. Okay. So the first question we always ask the chef, and and even if you're not a chef, we still ask you this question, and it's the most difficult. Yeah. What is your favorite ingredient?

SPEAKER_01

I will say lime. Oh nice! I will say lime. I love lime. Very good. You know, as a as the pepper. Yeah. Can be in the berries, can be in the chocolate, can be in coffee, can be in it really gives the peps the freshness and the intensity of the love that. If you put last minute, chuk chuck chuk, like the chef put the paper, same with the lime.

SPEAKER_00

Nice, yeah. Uh baguette or meringue?

SPEAKER_01

Get of baguette?

SPEAKER_00

As in French baguette? Yeah. Or meringue. Which one do you prefer? Baguette? Okay, very good.

SPEAKER_01

But the baguette of my father.

SPEAKER_00

Um spicy or pickled? What do you put in? Spicy. Oh I'm surprised, but a good one. Uh creme brulee or tartan?

unknown

Tartatan.

SPEAKER_00

Yes. Good tartatin. Paris or Lyon? Lyon. Uh mango sago or egg tart? Mango sago. Mango sago, very good. Uh, honey cake or Napoleon cake?

SPEAKER_01

For me, Napoleon.

SPEAKER_00

Uh very good. Uh coffee or carrack. Coffee or carak, coffee, coffee. Coffee? Very good. Now, can you tell me as of this moment now? What are your top three favorite cuisines to eat?

SPEAKER_01

Of course, French will be part of it, but I will go not easy like this. So, first Japan. Ah, 100%. Yes. Uh I will say Thai and Georgian. Oh, Georgian! I love Georgian food. This is Georgian, Uzbek. Nice. I love it. Yeah. I learned this food when I was in St. Petersburg. A lot of a Georgian restaurant, Uzbekistan. Beautiful. Beautiful. Beautiful. Very special. Of course, French, Italian, yes, yes, yes, we know.

SPEAKER_00

But yeah. But Uzbek is very interesting, Georgian and Uzbek. Okay. I love it. So then in the same time, who would you say are your top three uh food or pastry heroes, or they don't necessarily need to be chefs?

SPEAKER_01

Pastry heroes for me. Um for me, is like how to how to say like um decadence for me it was like Pierre Ami. Uh-huh. Was the papa of pastry. Yeah. Everybody was like B. Pierre Ramis, like the god of pastry, you know. After for me was uh Christophe Michelac. You know, you have different kinds of area. Yes. So Pierre Ramé, like really like the base. After Michelac was the first one to be uh like doing show TV, book, especially at the moment when I was there, was doing a lot of things. It was like two show TV, making the book, was like the superstar of PSV. So it was like maybe the first one to be very starification of a PSU chef. And now for me, it's uh at the same level Cédric Grolet and Amory Guichon in two different spheres and level, but uh both because they really uh show to the world the beauty of our job, the the creativity, the precision, and the talent. Both of them they have huge talents. It's a lot of pace we chefs have have talent, but these two are like for on another planet.

SPEAKER_00

It's amazing, actually. You're right. So then, Chef, as you know, lots of things happen in kitchens, in banquets, in hotels, in operations. Now, can you tell me your funniest either kitchen, restaurant, or pastry incident that you have seen or that you have been involved in?

SPEAKER_01

Yes, I have one. I still remember and I still feel bad now. It's more than 10 years ago, but I still feel bad. It was uh uh one banking event in uh in Plaza Athenae. Uh it was uh 50 person like uh chocolate fondant, you know, like bikui. So chocolate fondant. It was like uh remember the five people was working on it, and uh one person was in charge to put the the the crumble to be able to put the kennel of the ice cream at a minute. Yeah, the other one was in charge to put the chocolate decoration on the colet on the kennel and on the chocolate fondant. And uh my chef said, Okay, uh Jean-Marie Blau uh said at this point, okay, uh Nico, let's go to cook the miku. Okay, put the micwi in the oven. So 50 miku. 50. Yeah, 50 miku. So he said, okay, we are going in 10 minutes, let's go to put the miku in the oven. So it's like eight minutes of cooking. So I go to put the miku. I come back to help them, I help them, I help them, and uh he said, okay, the miku are cooked, forget to put the timer. Forget to put the timer. I go to the oven, it was like a brownie, you know, like cook, overcook. So I go to see the chef, I said, all the micri are like uh overcook. And I take big lesson because I realized uh so this day I learned two things. It was my bigger mistake ever because like 50 people was waiting for the dessert and It was dead because the timing for sure will be bad and because it to make from zero. But at this moment I learned two things. First, I learned from uh Jean-Marie Blau. For me, it was the best chef I never worked with. It was a very special person and um about the way he managed people and the way he interact with people. Because even in this kind of situation, he didn't get pissed. He said, Okay, two moons arrêt, like everybody stop. Okay, so we all stop like this, we don't move. Okay, you do that, you do that, you do that. Give tasks to all of us. Take the rings, take the butter, start to skill, start to do that, start to do that. No scratch from scratch, and we remake this 50 micri like in 15 minutes uh all together. So I really learned how uh the behavior of chef is very important to keep the calm and manage the situation, even in the bad moments. And I really realize how PS3 team works. Because at this moment, if I was alone, dead, yes, no micwi for anybody, everybody can go home. But the fact was all together, we make it happen, maybe with 15-20 minutes late, but at the end the guests have the dessert. A little bit late, but they have the dessert because of all of us and fresh. So I feel so bad, but on the same time, this day I learned a lot. I learned a lot. I remember after the day when I was uh in my home, I was thinking about the situation, and I really learned from that. It's helped me for the rest of my career.

SPEAKER_00

But I have to say, I mean, that's that's tough that situation for you must and I feel your pain. I feel your pain, but um, how amazing of the chef to have reacted in such a way. I mean, because he could have been super angry and exploded, yeah, right? But the way he was like, okay, everybody stop tack tack tack tack tack, yeah, and it was done. Wow.

SPEAKER_01

But Jean-Marie was a very special person. I will speak a little bit about him because for me he was uh he was father, grandbrother, because unfortunately he passed away uh some years ago. It was very tough for all of us, yeah, for all the people that work with him, because he was more than a chef.

SPEAKER_00

Right.

SPEAKER_01

And uh we are all of us part of Jean-Marie in us, and uh, I think we'll never forget the way he managed people, I think is the way we are all now chef, is based on how he was with us. Yeah, and that's why for me I always say it's very important to don't go to work for the beauty of PS3 or dessert, but go to work for the chef, not for the company. Because you are like a sponge, and where you are passionate, your chef is like uh you believe on whatever the chef said, you get my point, but you learn the good and the bad things, yeah, both sides. So if it's too much bad things, you will get also the bad way to manage, the bad way to talk, you get my point? So it's very important to work with good people to be for good pace with Jeff. You get my point.

SPEAKER_00

And uh Jeff, the final question what advice would you give to a 16-year-old Nicholas Lambert?

SPEAKER_01

Be good at school, learn English, learn English very well because it's very important if you want to go out of the country, and um yes, be patient. I was patient, but of course I can be even more patient. But uh for me uh you need to be uh curious, I'm very curious in a general way. Uh I like to see, I like to know, I like to ask many questions. So I think you need to be curious because you learn a lot with asking questions and your curiosity. But um, yeah, I will say yes. Speak English, and uh and also maybe about uh when I start PS3, uh, is one thing that I want to talk about. Uh we were like uh 20 people in school to do this uh you know internship, and uh now still working, we are only three. Oh yeah. So it's also one thing that I want to talk about is uh it's important maybe to finalize your school before to go for an internship, to have some kind of diploma.

SPEAKER_03

Yes.

SPEAKER_01

Uh in case you don't like it, yes, in case it's too difficult, or in case you realize it's not really your patient, you like it, but not at the level of uh the sacrifice of you know uh working festive period, working at Christmas, working during the weekend. So maybe it would be one advice because you think you are sure at 16, 17 that you want to be a chef, but maybe after with the time with the girlfriends, people that you meet, you realize that you make a mistake and you wake up, you have 18, 20 years old, you don't have a diploma, I think. Yeah, so it can be a problem. So maybe it would be that. I have the chance that I find my way from the beginning, and now I'm here and I'm super happy and I'm very lucky. But um, yes, give me one advice.

SPEAKER_00

Now, if anybody wanted to contact you through social media, how can they do that?

SPEAKER_01

Oof, social media. I don't read too much message on social media uh because it's taking too much of my time. That's what I tell you before. Now for me, it's super difficult to be a good pistol chef, a good father, a good husband, a good on social media. It's taking a lot of time. Yeah, so I try to be uh the best as I can everywhere, but it's not easy to reply to everyone.

SPEAKER_00

Sure.

SPEAKER_01

But uh of course you can reach me by email. Okay, of course.

SPEAKER_00

So, what I'll do is I will also put your LinkedIn and your Instagram in the notes so people can follow and get hold of you.

SPEAKER_01

Pleasure. You are all welcome to Forces in Dubai.

SPEAKER_00

Well, Chef, look, uh on behalf of the Chef JKP podcast, first of all, thank you very much for taking the time out of your busy schedule to be here. Uh it's been really phenomenal and fascinating to get to know you and your story. And uh, look, the very best of luck of the rest of what you're going to do. And I know that you're super successful in your field. I just wish that there were more chefs and pastry chefs like you in the world where you know they're really able to take on juniors and and teach them the real way of how to work correctly because pastry is a science, you know, and you have to be super patient to make sure that everything is correct. True, you know, um, but honestly, uh it's it's phenomenal that you are here and uh four seasons are very lucky to have you.

SPEAKER_01

Thank you. But it's also uh a teamwork, a big teamwork. Well, I saw if I am here now, it's because of my team in Hong Kong, because of my team in St. Petersburg. I don't forget anyone because they are all part of my uh going, especially my team in Dubai. We do beautiful things together, absolutely, and without them it's not possible. You cannot, even if you have sometimes crazy idea, like the last Easter egg that I do was like crazy idea I work for many, many times. My team said you are crazy, chef. But uh, without them will be not possible because I don't made all these eggs by myself. I need them to do it. Yeah, so I can have many ideas, creativity. If I don't have talented people with me that's supporting me daily and believe in me, I cannot I cannot continue to and they know myself now. Yeah, they know myself. I can absolutely so but I love them. I love them and I'm very happy to to have beautiful people around me. Yeah, many nationality, as I told you. I have a 16 nationality between the two teams. It's for me, it's beautiful mix of all my experience before. That's that's why I feel super good now in Dubai. I feel like it's a mix of the world and the place I need to be.

SPEAKER_00

Incredible. Well, chef, thank you so much. Thank you to you. Thank you. What a way to kick off season 13. A huge thank you to Chef Nicholas for joining me and sharing his incredible journey from growing up in a family bakery in France to becoming one of the most celebrated pastry chefs in the world. What stood out for me is throughout his entire journey in this conversation, the excellence rarely happens by accident. Behind every award, every dessert, and every moment of success is years of practice, consistency, and utter focus, as well as dedication to his craft. He pushed himself past beyond the comfort zone, even when he didn't even need to. If you've enjoyed today's episode, please take a moment to subscribe, follow, and share, as well as leave a review wherever you're listening to the show. It genuinely helps us to bring you more incredible and fascinating guests. Well, gang, that kicks off season 13. I'm super excited for you to know who next week's guest is. So make sure, don't forget to stay on board, keep on following us as the rest of the season is incredibly exciting. Just make sure you share across all your platforms. And if you're looking for more things, Chef JKP on all social media platforms. There are some incredible guests in this season. Well, gang, this is Chef JKP signing out. Until next time, food is memories.