In this episode, I speak to Barry Hayward, the head of student disability services at King's College London. We speak about disability as a verb rather than a noun -- it's something done to you by an inaccessible environment.
In this episode, I speak to Barry Hayward, the head of student disability services at King's College London. We speak about disability as a verb rather than a noun -- it's something done to you by an inaccessible environment.
Welcome to Enabled in Academia, my name is Lienkie Diedericks, your host creator, and hopefully not the only listener of this podcast about how to survive and thrive in academia as a disabled chronically ill and own your diverse individual. I'm a PhD candidate at King's College London and center for doctoral studies, it's helping to fund this project. Over the next few episodes, I'll be speaking to a range of guest speakers, disability advisors, mentors, disabled academics at various stages of their careers and disabled students about access problems, ways seeking and creating support and important issues that are often neglected in acting institutions. here with me today I have Barry Hayward, the head of Student Disability Services at King's College London. Thank you. You're welcome. Barry and I actually I think we arrived at King's run About the same time about three years ago, it's not so very.
Barry Hayward :Yeah. 2017 I think your one one of the first student case I dealt with directly myself because a manager the service, I don't see all the students. But yeah, I think you're one of the first ones. And I remember that. And we've we've just had a few contact points since then, haven't we?
Lienkie Diedericks :We have, we have, I think you've been really a key contact and support person in my whole postgraduate experience at Kings, you know, and we've actually worked together on a number of different issues. So it's been really good. I think
Barry Hayward :we're talking later on about some of the things we're doing sort of collaboratively like this podcast, but I think you want to start with looking at sort of our services generally and how that might help other students.
Lienkie Diedericks :Absolutely, absolutely. I mean, I'll, I'll tell our listeners a little bit about my first experience. So I came to you know, I came to Kings in 2017. And at that point, I was still having a lot of nerve damage in my legs, which meant, you know, I had to walk with a walking cane. So I had some mobility problems. And I arrived to fresh off the plane from South Africa. And when we got to the king's residence near my mum, and they had booked my accommodation on the third floor. And I remember the shock, you know, because, you know, I'd ask them for a ground floor adaptable and accessible room. And that was I think one of the first things you helped me with to be able to sort out
Barry Hayward :Yeah, it's a sort of thing that happens, unfortunately, is messages get lost. And although kings prides itself and I pride myself that we're an accessible University, sometimes it's just the communication that breaks down and if, if a student like you is there on their own or with with their mother, and they're offered a room that's not accessible, it's safe for you. That's, oh my god, what do we do? It's, it's a really difficult situation. And we have accessible rooms and you You got one in the end, but it was it was purely down to a breakdown in communication and unfortunately, that happens, but that's why we're here. We kind of Know the different services around the university that we we know who to contact to try and sort things out. So we don't want it to be that way. But part of our job is troubleshooting when things go wrong.
Lienkie Diedericks :Absolutely. And I mean, I was just so impressed. I think, you know, you guys sorted it out for me very quickly. I think within a week, you know, they'd sorted out my place. And, you know, I lived there for a year was one of the best years, honestly, in London. And I think what that experience taught me is like the earlier Stephen goes to disability services, to just notify that you're there to probably get a king's inclusion plan, which we can talk about in a bit more detail, the better it is for everyone. Yeah, we
Barry Hayward :reach out to people that apply to the university and tick the box, there's a box that says Do you have a disability and there's different categories you can choose? So we, we reach out to those people and say, we're here, get in touch and we can help with advice and support, but we don't reach everybody with that. Some people, you know, maybe not sure about ticking that box. So we're going to Talk about that later on. So we will not have their details to be able to contact them. And then for some people, their their offer comes in quite late. So some students go through clearing in August after the a level results. Some people put in an application late and maybe they don't get the offer until quite close, it sounded like you You had a quite a late offer and got on that plane. So sometimes there can be that short timescale. But the ideal is that as soon as people are considering coming to Kings, that they get in touch with us, and then we can start planning for accommodation or anything else that may need to be done as soon as possible. So yeah, I'd recommend that get in touch and we'll talk at the end about how students can get in touch with us.
Lienkie Diedericks :Fantastic. Very, we mentioned just a little bit earlier, you know, that a lot of students might worry or, you know, might be indecisive about whether or not they qualify for disability support, and so many students might never come forward like you said, there might be a lot of people who don't take That box. So who is disability services? Do you think designed to help? And maybe we can talk a bit more about this term disabled? And what that means and how inclusive it actually is? Sure,
Barry Hayward :I think there's a range of of issues there. Because there was a discussion today about a student that seems to have quite a lot of issues that need to be addressed. And there's no question of that person being reluctant to share a disability because they have a very obvious disability, and they, they will need us to do things differently. But what can happen if you're in that kind of situation is you might think, well, if I tell the university too much, are they are they going to think I'm too much trouble, and I can really reassure them on that. And it's not just kings. I know that all universities have worked on equality policies. And what I found really great was, it wasn't me. It wasn't my team. It was the admissions department that said the only consideration is this student's academic qualifications for joining the program they wish to join and so basically Applications are made on the basis of your grades, or your personal statement, disability is never considered, we then look at it afterwards. And that's why we're brought into the picture when someone's made an offer, because disability, whatever box, you might take whatever information you might give, that is never used to judge your application. So I really want to reassure people considering University about that, then on the other hand, so so you do get that some people saying, I'm going to wait until I get an offer before I say anything, and that's fine. If you're worried, you know, it's fine not to tell us until you're sure you've got a place but I would reassure you that it shouldn't make a difference at all, but then there are those who are just reluctant to share and maybe have a health condition or or something that they think is this a disability I don't know. And that word disability is difficult for people to to associate with. Sometimes it's a negative word. That's the first thing. Let's face it, this anything this is seen as a negative, the way I look at it, as I see it as a verb, not an Now, and I hope this will be helpful for people to think that it's not something that you are as a person, it is something that is done to you as a verb. So I would say when we don't make the teaching and the learning and the assessment and the accommodation services accessible, you are being disabled. So it's a verb. It's something that kings does to students. It's not something you have as a person. So for me, disability is about the lack of access that we we provide. So from that sort of perspective, we we have a very broad definition of who we would support anyone with a medical condition anyone with a an injury that's more than just a short term injury, and and also those people that people would normally associate with disability like deaf students, those who are visually impaired wheelchair users and so on. They all come under that umbrella for us. Also dyslexia, dyspraxia, those conditions caused specific learning difficulties. These are all people and the common theme is that kings may need to look at their Teaching and Learning differently. And that's, that's where I would say, you know, we're here for you, you should embrace that term. But I would prefer a different word, because it does sound negative. But the big problem is no one's ever been able to come up so far, with a good alternative that everybody understands. So just a final point, I'd say on that I've, you know, I've been involved in discussions about using phrases like diversity and well being and these are more positive words, but they're not focused enough on the issue for people to fully appreciate that that's what the services so we're sticking with disability for the time being, I'm afraid. Well,
Lienkie Diedericks :you know, Barry, I think the more we can communicate with our students and with everyone in Kings about what it means the more we can be verb orientated towards disability and less noun orientated. So I really, really like that. The way you've said that you've described that and in my own experience, you know, I would say I'm dynamically disabled because it depends on both my mental health that day, but also on What the nerve damage has decided to bring up for me that day. And so I could have days where everything is fine and days where I'm not as fine. And as like you said, as long as you have those support structures in place and access in place, there's no reason that these physical, mental or any other difficulties you're experiencing should get in the way of your studies and your success.
Barry Hayward :That's the key thing. I think with me thinking it's a verb is it's it's not a fixed thing, and that it can change and we positive engagement, people can succeed.
Lienkie Diedericks :Exactly. And I guess that's why I also chose to call the podcast enabled in academia is with the hope that with enough information and advocacy, we can become enabled in the university rather than disabled when there are some words like enabled and accessible, that are more positive and you've been involved in discussions are around maybe services should be called enabling services or Accessibility Services. That's a debate that that may well you know, come up again, but at the moment, it's disability support for good or bad But hopefully our listeners will know. You're welcome to come by, and you're welcome to come and see what kind of support you can get. And that's the main message for today's podcast. Barry, I'd like to talk a little bit a bit more about the specific services that you offer students as wondering if it might be good to start with the Kings inclusion plan, would you be happy to start discussing around that, and then maybe mentioning some of the broader services you can offer?
Barry Hayward :Sure. So the the primary role of our services to enable adjustments to teaching and assessment and the learning environment generally, so that it is a fair and accessible place to study. And so, the Kings inclusion plan is the tool we use to just share information with academic staff. So if an individual has a Kings' inclusion plan that will detail what adjustments should be made for that student, it's done in that way so that the student doesn't have to keep asking. They have a document that explains what needs to happen in one place. And we helped put that together but the student is in control of it as well. We don't share any information without The students agreement but that's the the primary aim of Kings inclusion plan. And it's recognized within the the organization of kings. So if you have one of those documents, people immediately know are this is going to tell me what disability arrangements I need to make. So it kind of makes it official gives it validation. But yeah, most importantly, it's kind of takes that burden away from the individual themselves having to ask for things. And it's in your control. I mean, it may be that just we give guidance for some students who we just give guidance on what can work for them. And they don't need to share that with anyone. They don't need the Kings inclusion plan, but when we sort of show people what what's involved in it, they tend to find that it's a helpful document, whatever their health condition or disability. So that's our starting point. And then in some cases, there's more support that's needed. So it's not just about maybe on the Kings inclusion plan we we asked for extra time in the in an exam or we asked the teaching staff to provide their lecture materials in an accessible format. Maybe that, you know, through dyslexia, perhaps the reading takes the student longer, maybe somebody with health conditions reading takes them longer because because of fatigue. So we have things like dyslexia, tutors and mentors who can help students plan their studies. So that's another really valuable part of our service. Lots of students find that beneficial helps them catch up with their peers. And that's sort of private between them and us. It's not something anyone else needs to know that they're having that support. And the aim of it all is to build up student independence. So lots of students will have some sessions and then they'll they'll find that they do feel I'm on track. Now. For others, it can be more long term if their disability is affecting them more but that's up to you. Whatever you need, we we work on a plan. And then the final thing that we get involved in is for some students things like equipment, or software can help with a disability. So the most obvious one is blind students have to have software that reads aloud what's on screen, but there's all sorts of software that can help or different Types of needs. So we help students get that together. And there's there's often funding available for that sort of stuff. And so we we know how to get that funding together. So it's it's, there's quite a lot that we do, but it's all based around you as an individual, what's going to work for you. And we we don't do anything that you're not happy with. So the first point is a discussion. And we just talk things through and make a plan from there.
Lienkie Diedericks :Well, Barry, I can tell you tell our listeners today as well. I've used a lot of your services. I have a kings inclusion plan. And I want to reassure everyone who's listening and thinking about maybe coming in that it is completely confidential and I can completely agree with what Barry has said is it's up to you and you're in control of that document. And as someone who has so many different kinds of health issues, I've got a really complex medical history every time if I had to go and explain to someone every time What is wrong with me and get doctors support for that it would have been a nightmare. And that kings inclusion plan honestly makes the administrative burden on disabled people a lot better. It's helped me with extensions. It's helped me explain to certain lecturers that, for instance, I can't finish work as quickly because I do get fatigued. And specifically in my PhD, it's really helped me with key key deadlines like the aims and methods essay and even the upgrade because I had a serious medical intervention that happened over January in February and the king's inclusion plan plays much, there's quite an important role in getting further higher up extensions, especially at a PhD level. So that is incredibly helpful. And then secondly, the mentoring is a fantastic service. And actually during the corona crisis just got back into the UK. And I realized that I really needed additional supports for my PhD and Barry in no time at all was able to set up a mentorship with the university mentoring organization, and have a fabulous mentor there who specializes in PhD issues and PhD students. And it's like Barry says it's not there to replace my supervisor to help me towards becoming an independent researcher and it's absolutely been a lifesaver and I Honestly recommend anyone who feels especially in a PhD that they need extra support to come to the Disability Services and discuss that possibility. Because I think, you know, things change so quickly. And especially now with the COVID crisis, there might be a lot of changing needs vary. Do you think that there was some changes that have to be made during the covid crisis? And are there specific ways in which the Disability Support Services can help students?
Barry Hayward :Yes, I mean, the key one was around assessment because with going into lockdown in March, students, certainly at the undergraduate students were looking ahead to the May period when we have exams and with the closure of the campus, we couldn't hold exams so quickly, any remaining lectures and the exams will move to an online process. So students did their exams at home. So that was a big change. At the beginning March and April. Everyone in the college was having to work from home and work on these things and students had to cope with that some of them had to leave their university accommodation, go back home. So we were just involved in support that whole process. For some of the online assessments were a better experience than exams. Exams can be quite a stressful difficult challenge for disabled students as well as it anyone really so there was some positives from from that. And we're learning from the experience to prepare for the new academic year where they will be retaining a lot of online teaching and assessment. So we're trying to work with that, and then work out what does that mean for students with different conditions and disabilities and a key one is, is being able to access information shared online, which if you're you're visually impaired, or if you're deaf is a particular challenge. But you know, we've identified, you know, for students with anxiety, having to tune into an online session can be difficult working at home, on your own in isolation is going to affect lots of students and students with dyslexia. You know, men need that interaction with staff to get their head around concepts that are shared and if You're online that might not be so easy. All the things we've we've always worked on with students can apply in the new new ways of working. But it's just having to adapt our thinking to to the different ways that impact and that's all going on at the moment where that might impact on individuals is there might be some different things in their kings inclusion plan when we talk to them. Yeah, there's very little that we're not able to adapt. So let me give a simple example, we might put in place a sign language interpreter. We've been working on sign language interpreters been involved in online lessons that Yeah, it's great. We can do it. And then we're fortunate in the UK that technology has kept pace that I think before this period, the only thing that we had where people could connect by video successfully was on zoom. Yeah. But now there's a very, it's not just zoom. There's other platforms and they've they've all come on stream and improved amazingly quickly, which has helped but if I say Well, one thing I found is the academic staff are having to adapt really quickly to this as well as students. So it's, it's going to be a shared thing. I think We started at the beginning with communication and I think we were some of it, we will have to work out at the time, there will be things that I won't be able to foresee and maybe some communication breakdown will happen. And it may be that we have to just work things out quickly as we go. So we're trying our best to get everything ready. But I, you know, if I suppose my main message would be if something's not working, the Disability Support team are there for you to contact to try and make it work.
Lienkie Diedericks :Exactly. And like, when I'm teaching students, I always say to them, the first thing to getting support is asking for support. And that is sometimes one of the hardest things to do. I remember we got ill, I was 22. Before that, you know, strong and healthy and you kind of feel you, you know, you're in events, invincible, and you can take on anything and there's definitely elements of shame of having to ask for support, but I was quite severely disabled for a number of years of learning how to walk learning how to use my hands again, in that process, you realize how important it is. To have support systems and to actually learn how to ask for support. So I completely agree with you, Barry and I, like really encourage everyone during this time where there are so many changes, let's communicate clearly with each other as far as possible, and ask for help. And together, I think we can find a way of making it a better learning experience both students and for staff members, because I think everyone is experiencing stress. But it's important to remember that people with disabilities are often even more disadvantaged in these sorts of situations. So speaking out, will absolutely be the best way forward.
Barry Hayward :Yeah. So to get in touch with us, the easiest way is to email we have an email address, which is disability@kacl.ac.uk. Anyone who emails that will answer their question and arrange for them to meet with us if if we need to be googling kings disability will find our website. We've got information on the website. And there's another great facility kings have developed called student services online that's accessible through Google. It's a web Open Web site and it has an to every question any student could ever think of including disability. So it's called student services online. But if you googled a question with King's College London in it, it would probably come up as well. If you forget disability@kacl.ac.uk a Google search should help you find us.
Lienkie Diedericks :Thank you so much, Barry. And Barry, thank you so much for your time today. And we're chatting about specific services and how we can help students, we're really lucky to have you at Kings. Oh, thank you, Yankees, great to talk to you. And we're lucky to have you too. It was great having Barry on the show today. It's a daunting process to apply to University at any level of study. But even more so if you're disabled. I think the earlier that the institution knows about your disability, the quicker Disability Services can step into support. And institutions like kings disclosing your disability will not have any impact on your offer. And once you're part of the institution, all sensitive Information is protected. please do let me know what the Disability Services are like at your institution. And remember, disability is a verb and not a noun. Our environments can and should enable us. Thanks for listening to today's episode of enabled in academia. Please do like, share and support this podcast on Twitter by following us at enabled an anchor. If you have any questions, suggestions or impressions, please tweet at us or send me an email at enabled in academia@gmail.com. The music for this podcast a room for two is composed by Dan Loeb of bits and is available on the YouTube Audio music library. As always, access isn't optional for us to be enabled in academia. Yep, I'm making that a thing.