Freebird to Mama Bird: Interview with Sarah Isely, Founder of Hotel Cataleya

"Don't wait until your kids are older to live your bucket list life, take them with you."
- Sarah Isely

Linda dishes with Sarah about the journey from adventurous world explorer, to traveling mother, to creatrix of bespoke travel experiences for family.

INSIDE THE EPISODE:

Are you a Charlotte? Or a Samantha? A Carrie or Miranda? Linda schools Sarah on important takeaways from Sex and the City. 

Join us for another MOTHER & OTHER conversation where we :

• share the wisdom
• share what we are learning on the journey
• look at dating pre-motherhood
• explore relationship with your partner post motherhood
• think about what creating legacy looks like
• discuss the transformation of identity through motherhood and otherhood
• We get into the beats of the life lived, vs the one not lived. 
• Land on creating value from within and becoming "real" through the ultimate teacher, LIFE. 

Transcript

Hello, and welcome to a new episode of ladies like us. I'm your host, Linda Leising and I have with me today, Sarah Isely who is the founder of https://www.thehotelcataleya.com/about
Hotel Cataleya she created this as a design travel design service to align the travel values with vacation goals. So. I'm really fascinated by hotel Cataleya and I want Sarah to tell us a little bit more about it.

Well, thank you, Linda. And first of all, thanks for having me on the podcast. I'm excited to be here. Um, as you kinda know, just because we've talked about it before hotel Kattaleya was really born of my own experience, transitioning from, you know, single solo traveler and with a lot of wanderlust to having a child and really realizing that.

You know, to take my child out into the world and have her travel and get the experiences that have been so valuable to me, that was a priority for me. So you know it, but it's also a completely different game. So to speak, there's a learning curve that comes with traveling with kids versus traveling by yourself.

It's actually a pretty stark difference. So, um, hotel Kattaleya was really born out of my desire to. Help her to understand, or to actually not really understand, but more organically grow through travel and. Basically assimilate the benefits that come from interacting with the world at large, rather than staying in our bubble.

And I know that I'm not the only mother that has that desire. So, uh, I really wanted to create something that would make it both easeful and, um, value aligned for families to plan the kind of trips that are instead of being exploitive there. Regenerative, even to the destinations, because that's another aspect of travel.

That's kind of important. That is not just kind of, but is important to me is, is really the impact that we're having. So it's kind of marrying the yeah, like the, the impact that we can have and that we can be impacted by with, you know, the, the desire to travel, the drop travel easily, you know, to enjoy your time.

Um, and it's, it's finding that balance really. Yeah. 

Wow. What a beautiful, beautiful mission. I  hear you, you know, in your sort of quantum motherhood was for like to talk about here, right? So we have on the ground motherhood and we have whatever our energy speaks to us through to create.

And I love that you're nurturing a travel service that really is, um, so beautifully aligned with who you were. Pre motherhood and into, you know, the version that you are now, the version of womanhood you are now. So that's amazing. 

Yeah. I love that you bring that point out because, um, there really is something about becoming a mother that makes you.

Want to keep yourself intact. Um,  there's, there's so many aspects to being a mother, not being a mother, but one thing that I will tell you after having my first child at the age of 37, so I waited a long time, you know, so I had a lot of experience not being a mother. Um, and one thing that I've really.

Realized is that just the sheer amount of time that, that a child takes, you know, when you feel that it's worth it, but you can lose yourself easily. Um, and I think, you know, one of my favorite words really is balance. Um, it's something that I'm constantly striving for. And now that I'm a mom, I've realized an even greater need for balance in my life too.

In order to not, you know, get to, to the age or to her age of 18. And look back and say, all right, I don't even know who to be, you know? Yeah. In a way I'm, I'm honestly raising myself alongside her because it's a new journey, you know, I'm new at this. So, so it's an interesting time. Wow, 

Sarah, I love the, um, thank you for being so candid about that.

A bunch of things came to mind , as you, you shared that. And one is which, you know, really any of us, I mean, it's such a journey just individually to essentially mother ourselves, you know, and, and no matter how well we were mothered, there's always this, some part of us that we have to nurture and know better in order to just constantly evolve and create higher consciousness.

And, you know, for some of us who like myself, who don't have children, um, you know, we have other mirrors and, and places where we get this education, but I love that,  for you, you are growing alongside her, even as you are imparting that wisdom that you've gained. And, , just the fact that you have spent.

like you said, 37 years in that process of like, getting to know yourself, and again, it doesn't stop, but you have to preserve that desire to do so. And not simply, just switch off and just simply nurture your child, but you're nurturing each other. Like, or let me put it this way.

You're nurturing yourself as you nurture her. I love that. 

Thank you. And, uh, yeah, it's, it's an interesting point you bring up because I, I think so many women get lost in motherhood.  A lot of times the grass is greener on the other side. Right. So, , as women in this particular society we're raised to think of motherhood is, is kind of an ultimate goal.

And. It's an amazing thing. Don't get me wrong. You know, it's absolutely beautiful. But as you've seen, as I've seen, um, it's also, it's not the easiest thing, you know, that's why there's a whole segment of travel that can be catered to where it's literally parents trying to travel with their kids because it changes everything, .

  I grew up in a family of eight kids. So, you know, my mom, all she did was mother. Um, and really, I dunno if you can do anything, but kind of, don't get me wrong. She was great. And she was very, you know, involved mother, but there's a lot of survival, I think. When your mother have that many kids, you know?

Um, so it's interesting when you bring, or when we talk about the point of nurturing ourselves, because one thing that, I do think is hard as a mom, Is to remember to teach your kids to nurture themselves. And that's why a lot of us end up without that, end up without that or not without, but in the position where we really need to nurture and maybe having, having my own kid really brought that out and he made me realize it, you know, because, um, it just all felt so new.

Yeah. Now that's, that's a really, um, that's a fabulous reminder is it's kind of meta, but just as simply, um, model for your child , that sort of self nurturance is absolutely valuable and necessary. It's not indulgent, right. Yeah. 

Yeah. And you know, maybe that is why our society often makes us feel like we're not enough unless we adhere to these certain standards, like having children, you know, having the right job, having a college education, um, you know, all of these things that it's like, we don't feel like we're enough until we've achieved these milestones, but what's interesting.

And you hear this all the time is from people that have achieved these milestones. There's always, I don't want to say a flicker of disappointment, but there's a flicker of. Oh, wow. This didn't make me complete. Oh yeah. It's the, 

what else now? What? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, as you know, my, my mantra is, um, who decides what a complete life looks like.

Right. I love it. Yeah. And so, you know, the answer of course is that, you know, we do. So when you decide your life is complete, but feeling complete is a lifelong journey, and we touch upon it sometimes when we lose ourselves and we're in completely in the present moment. Right. Um, but it's really hard to have that presence of mind to stay in that zone.

Right. And I think it's two things are happening here, which is,  we get outside input. Tells us to be dissatisfied or feel like less than an, and , not enough, but yeah, the thing is that we can reach a point where we feel great for having, achieved or become or acquired or what have you, but, you know, the universe is expanding and so are we, and so, , what is good?

Two years ago will no longer feel like enough in two years. And we don't have to look at it as chronic dissatisfaction so much as you know, where's my growth taking me. Right. And so I just love, , having a moment to be able to insert that idea because I don't think we hear it 

enough. I completely agree.

And, um, I love that you brought that up because for me. That is one of my goals is to raise my daughter to fill that more for that to be more part of even her structure. You know, I'm not always a hundred percent certain how to do that, but, um, it is an interesting paradigm shift and what I realized in my own life.

So often per what you said is. I'll get into those moments where you're almost like in Zen, right? Where you realize that, and it feels amazing. And then life and our society structure and everything, it can so easily pull you back from that. You know, we're so programmed. That's what I realized because we're programmed to really reject that idea and to strive, strive, strive, strive for something.

And so I really have been leaning into   being present and enjoying what's right now and, and realizing what, what you brought up that life. Isn't. I mean, we'll never be there. You know what? We'll never arrive will never be complete, but we already are complete, you know, So this striving is really what makes us feel incomplete, I think.

Yeah. Yeah, 

no, absolutely. And maybe this is a good time for me to kind of segue into, um, our topic, which so, you know, we talk about complete life checklists. And  I think big on a lot of our checklist is this concept of being chosen by someone, right. Or, you know, having that relationship. And so,  along the lines of,   motherhood or other hood, oftentimes that partnership piece plays an integral role.

As we know that there are plenty of people who found their person had a family and, you know, they didn't continue on in that relationship and they get divorced or, um, some people,  are not married. Some women create motherhood with a, , Um, uh, a very short term partner and, um, and things like that.

And, and, you know, other people just kind of decide that partnership isn't for them. But I think,  I wanted to ask you specifically, because we, we had a recent, great conversation about this, but yeah. So partnership, post motherhood and pre motherhood. Any thoughts on that? 

Oh, yes. Um, there's a lot into the, in this subject to unpack for sure.

One of the, the most, probably pivotal shifts that I noticed, um, in partnership pre-imposed, and this is my personal experience. Um, but , when you're, when you don't have a child, there's always this, um, This feeling that for a lot of people, that if you do have a child, that's gonna keep you together or, that's gonna make you get along more.

Or, and that temporarily works a lot of times, you know? Um, but I think that there's this interesting. how do I say I. I don't want to say delusion, but I do think in a way it is a delusion that we have that, you know, just because we have this certain structure or things are a certain way, that's going to lead to this result of a perfect relationship, you know, a marriage that stays together.

Um, and I think  we can obviously look around us and we can say, well, yeah, obviously that's not true, but there's this interesting thing that we often have within ourselves where we. I think for some reason that's going to be true for us. Um, it's not a conscious thought. I think it's more of a subconscious thing.

Yeah. Like an internal bias or to speak. Yeah. 

Yeah.  But one thing I've noticed is that, um, partnership, post motherhood, post having a child. Is a beautiful thing when it's important to you and you nourish it. Um, it can also be even more frustrating than before you had a child because you almost, it depends on your perspective.

You can feel stuck or you can feel motivated for this to be, uh, , a partnership that works. But what you realize is it's. It's all just as much work, if not more, you know, I think people will often have kids to try to repair their relationship. And I'm not saying it doesn't work, but, um, one of the things kids shows you are having a child shows you, at least in my experience is that you can't get away from yourself.

Um, 

gosh, that's such a, that's a gem, it's a truth bomb right there. 

And, and that can be a positive thing. Um, if you decide to nourish yourself, you know, and I think that, that it always comes back to that answer, right? Um, nourish yourself, love yourself, take care of yourself because you cannot get away from yourself.

And whether you're with a partner or without a partner after you have a child that is glaringly true. Um, it's going to bring out parts of yourself that won't come out when you're living by yourself. You know, when you have your space and you have your freedom and you don't have to take care of anyone else, if you don't want to.

Um, so I think that has big been one of the things that I've really learned because I have a, an amazing partner, we get along, we both love our child. She's our priority, but it. Doesn't just get rosy and just easily happen on its own, just because, , you brought kids into the world. In fact, I would say that sometimes it gets harder probably because it, it is a mirror or, you know, More of the parts of yourself that you don't necessarily want to see.

Yeah. 

You know, um, I feel compare Pell to share that. Um, I could feel like, especially I have a sort of 20, 20, a little bit about my non motherhood and what I mean by that is, um, I think that. For so much of my life, I kept wondering about my purpose. Right. And kind of like, well, what am I here for? And what, you know, what am I gifts?

What do I do? And now I was trying to create motherhood, especially like, while I was married, but even, , after I got to forest, but I did kind of understand that there was this thought in my mind that, I'll be off the hook for my life purpose because, , I know I'm a Virgo, I'm a nurture like, and you know, when I have someone else's needs to attend to, so, you know, in my twenties, this looked like codependency.

Right. But  you evolve, you grow up, but even so I could sort of feel how yes. Having a child. , could have easily  gotten me off the hook as far as like, trying to figure out what I have to do. And, , every mother speaks to, they know that. Yeah. Okay. Like I am doing this and I still need to find my purpose.

And so kind of feeling into that truth and knowing, and I'm not saying that, you know, thank God I didn't have a kid because this would have happened. Not at all. It's just. More like I have an even deeper kind of awareness of myself through, through this lens. So thanks for sharing that and prompting my thoughts.

Yeah, absolutely. And, um, if we're going to be completely honest, I think that we are, um, like if moms were to be completely honest, And I I'm sure that this might come across offensive to some, but I think it's the truth in that motherhood can be very disappointing. Yeah. It's also a hundred percent for me out, you know, the, the beauty of it and the love that outweighs the disappointment, but think about raising somebody else.

And you're what you said, brought this up to me because I'm nurturing, you're putting everything into these children, right? Uh, first of all, you have to keep them alive. Second of all, you have to care about their emotional and mental wellbeing and their, you know, interaction with society and their learning.

So you spend so much of your life doing this and then without fail, these kids turn into teenagers and then into adults and they become uncontrollable for you. And  they often don't live up to what you had in your head in a way it might be one of the most unrewarding purposes that somebody could undertake in the long-term.

So that's, um, that's. That's a really like, kind of dark view on it, but I think that's just the shadow side. I don't think, you know, I think that every mother would say it's worth it regardless of that. But for those that are non mothers considering motherhood or considering, , where they want to be on that.

And, and like you said, kind of feeling like it will be, this is excuse, right. To put into something else and not really have to, uh, come into your purpose that could end up being. Uh, disappointment, you 

know? Uh, yeah, no, and I think we, we, we definitely, um, have witnessed people like that who,  feel like, Oh, you know, no, one's grateful for all this stuff that I'm doing.

Right. And you can kind of, , feel that, that martyr mother energy, um, sometimes right. And yeah. Yeah. So common, thank you for that radical honesty.  It's so valuable, I think for, for both mothers and non mothers to sort of understand that,  anything we, we don't have,

you know, we'll never know the having of, and so it'll always feel like this elusive gift that was denied, but , like anything, um, the stakes are higher and so that some of the joy peaks can be very great, but the disappointment lows can be very strong too. And I, that's kind of what I heard you say.

Yeah, absolutely. And, um, I love, I love your premise, you know, and what, what you really are trying to open the mind to, because essentially what it is is that we can be satisfied no matter what role we're playing in life and, you know, children with children without children, like you said, there's, you know, there's, there's both highs and lows and, um, I think it really does come to what you brought up in that.

The grass is greener on the other side, that's kind of a basic saying, but you know, really it is because it's, it comes back to that striving, right. Striving for what we don't feel we've we've reached yet. And if we just looked around us and became present in our life, there's a lot of satisfaction in that.

No matter what you're doing. You know, no matter what role you're playing, 

I love the way you put that,   satisfaction in whatever role we play. We have that ability to create it a hundred percent. I mean, you think about, , We've all loved multiple times and you can't be with every lover you have ever loved.

Right. So in choosing one it's to, , say no to the others. Right. And, , there's so many places that happens in our life and, , obviously motherhood's a big one. And  of course these conversations are to kind of. He'll that, that sort of all or nothing feeling of,  I achieved it or I failed at it.

Right. And to understand that, , it's okay to embrace the shadow, which you kind of introduced, which, , I loved, I love shadow work, but you know, what are the reasons that maybe you didn't really go for it? Right? Like we're allowed to hold sadness that this is not my life, but I can also hold that.

There may have been reasons, more compelling things that I wished to do. Not simply that it was denied me. Right. And, you know, really leaning into that radical honesty with ourselves. Um, I think that that really allows us,   positions us to be more satisfied in our role, whatever we create. 

Yeah, I love that.

And it's so empowering, right? To have that honesty and to not be a victim of this happened, or it didn't, to me, that's the most empowering thing. It's hard, it's hard to look at, you know, something that you think you want really bad or you think you don't want and be like, okay, maybe I do. You know, and I I've experienced that a lot in my life, you know, I think denying my true desires.

And  it's interesting, you would think it'd be easy to be vulnerable with yourself, but it's not, it's actually very difficult. Um, but it is our ego won't 

have that. 

Yeah, no, it's so true. Um, it's very empowering though, to get to that place where you can say, okay, I'm not a victim of my circumstances.

Maybe subconsciously I chose this.  And even if I didn't, there's possibly something great for me right here. 

Yes, absolutely.  Along the lines of your deep share. I had a realization recently as I was taking a walk and I saw a woman with three kids and I was like, Oh, first I just, and my awwwas more just like, oh, it'd be fun 

be going to the park with a couple of kids and like, you know, I don't have any I'm friends with kids,  in my vicinity. So I don't really  have kids that I could just , take to the park or hang with. Right. And I love their energy, but for some reason it just triggered this thought and realization, which is, you know, maybe on some level I never felt like I had enough time to myself.

When I was 15, I was babysitting my baby sister all the time. And so, you know, this experience of  I want my time to be my own, but here I am babysitting again. And I can love my sister. I mean, we had so much fun, but , that well, it does lodge in there and I kind of looked at those kids and thought about,  all the time that I would never have on my own and kind of had to acknowledge that it's all the things that I did to create motherhood.

I still did have those thoughts. Right. Like, Oh, I'll never be alone again, you know, like 

shoot. So 

yeah. Yeah, yeah. And I think it's, it's just really good to, , Own those truths. 

Absolutely. Yeah. That's interesting. Um, it is interesting, right? I don't, I wonder if that's even a statistic, cause it's kind of a parallel for me.

I babysat younger siblings a lot too. And you almost, you do get a little bit of a taste of the responsibility and the, and I would say into a test to the motherhood thing, you really are never alone. Again for a very long time. I mean, even your mind isn't alone because even if you go and you, you know, you get some alone time, there's always that, that wondering, there's always that kind of, that connection, that bond that's, , pulling your emotions and your, your mind back to that child.

Oh, so you don't even really get your own mental space for a while, especially when they're in those young years of,  you're basically trying to keep them alive a lot, you know? Um, 

I'm reminded of my friend who was like, Oh my God,  it would be, so she finally got away and she's like, it's so nice to not have little hands touching me, like constantly, you know?

And so like that's. Yeah. 

Yeah. That's funny. Yeah. I was in a clubhouse room the other day. It was a motherhood one, and that was it. They were like, I can't even go to the bathroom. And that was the main topic. Like that's literally what they were talking about. So it's so true. Yeah. 

Amazing. Isn't it. So it's a funny, I love that.

We, um, we gloriously go off topic. Um, we're like partners. What? Partners? 

Yeah, no, no, no. I love it. I love it. 

So, I mean, if we were just to maybe just think about like a small slice of that. 

So in terms of like partnership, For you and I, and I know he sounds like an amazing partner, but how did that space that you had for him change with the creation of your motherhood? 

Oh, that's a really good question. Um, wow. You know, again, to get radically honest, I was very reserved. Um, I mean, I had gotten into a pattern of being, um, self-contained and really when it came to partnership, I would say maybe giving about 30% of myself, um, just, and that's not the homie to that number, but just really, um, it was very,  I was very.

Set in my, kind of my freedom and, and just, you know, after you experience a few heartbreaks, you become less vulnerable. You become more self-protective. And, and I was really at a point of finding a lot of reasons to not be with somebody. Um, long-term, you know, I, I knew I really liked him. I really enjoyed his company.

But beyond that, I wasn't really, and I do think a lot of us do this more than we realize. We keep ourselves,  to a certain capacity with a partner, even in relationships. Um, it's hard to be very vulnerable. And what I noticed shift was that once I knew I was having a child with him, I had this feeling of.

Okay, I've got to give it all or nothing. And I've got to, I can't play games. Not that I wanted to play games or was playing games, but this is a time to be completely open and vulnerable and open up more space for this person in my life. And to be. A part of my life, like for real legit. Um, so yeah, I really noticed, um, that it was just this kind of this immediate shift,  and I changed the way I accepted partnership.

Um, And that's my,  my personal journey. Yeah. But I definitely, I think that's coming from someone who got good at protecting themselves and kind of, you know, I, I kind of held a lot of relationships at arms length. So I noticed that as a huge shift. And I also noticed a big thing that I noticed was, and I had been shifting towards this, but.

There's this realization for me, that really was life-changing because a lot of times I think women, especially in men, just, you know, desirable, attractive people often don't realize that they see themselves. They're only holding the standard for themselves. You know, how is this person do I deserve this?

You know, do they deserve me? How's this person matching up to this list that I have, you know?  I really changed in my way of like accepting a person as a whole who they are. You know, with him, um, the good, the bad. Maybe I don't like, but, um, I like him and we have a child and, you know, and really.

More. Okay. So how can we do this together rather than like, Hey, you're not doing this, you're doing this. You're you know, that type of, so, um, I don't know if that answered you. Yeah, 

That's really,  interesting point., I'm hearing. A few things. Um, one is that, maybe just the very active becoming pregnant, with him is, um, increased that vulnerability factor, right.

Because it's a vulnerable position to be in as a woman. And so that naturally seems to have opened up a door for you and,  allowed you to see him differently. For sure. And I'm also hearing  as opposed to right. Our checklists about what we want in a partner instead, it's  like, you're  more commitment forward and that commitment is holding you both to,  the energy of trying to accept the other.

Right. Versus trying to find ways that someone's not matching the ideal. 

Yeah. That's very, very well said. And yeah. And then I think that's when you start to realize in to me in a, an energetically, like ideal partnership. You don't just come to a point of acceptance. You come to a point of growth alongside each other growth that kind of intertwines, you know, especially as a parent because people do grow apart as well.

So it becomes more important to you to have growth that intertwines and combines with that other person. So you can kind of pull each other forward when you need that little pool. But also, you're not the only one pulling the weight,  that's, that's what a lot of parents really create. A lot of people crave in general and we touch on it in that, that conversation the other day, you know, and really, it was interesting.

Cause it, you can often feel like you're doing so much self work, and you're, you re you can get resentful of a partner, but. It's a lot of shift in perspective because who are you doing that work for? You know, and if both people are doing that work for them, it's a beautiful thing, I think. 

Yeah.

Yeah. It's true. You both on that, your own journeys, but you're kind of on it together as well. And  it's interesting because you were talking about. Doing trigger work. And it's like, you do this work, but then the person around you,  they don't have that same consciousness.

Right. So you're like, why am I doing all this work? And like, they just get to be themselves and be all annoying, you know? And, um, yeah, but it's, it's interesting. Um, there's two things I want to bring up. One is,  a lot of women are circumstantially infertile, so,  physically there's something wrong, but they don't have either like the partner, the setup that they considered to be ideal.

So when you think about approaching dating,  from, from the perspective of trying to create that nest, I think that, and again, this is everyone's allowed to have standards, right? But you have to kind of ask yourself why. Right. Like, if you say I need them to be six foot two, you know, like you just, is it because you want tall children?

Like, does that really matter?  If your house is on fire and he's helping,   cart the kids out of the house, like what actually matters. And so I think that some people get, they time themselves out of that possibility of partnership because they don't get to a place of openness and intimacy and possibility with someone that doesn't look like what they expect.

So,  between settling, cause we, nobody likes that idea. but also just being aligned with what really matters.  If you think about, well, what would matter 20 years in. This person, it looks radically different from what it looks like when you're  peaking on the outskirts and thinking like, Oh, I want my husband to look like that.

I want my house to be here and  you're picking out your strollers and things like that, but it's, that's not the energy of what it really takes to create it. Right? Like vision board or no, you have to be in that space of really being able to consider what the world of another person can, can be with you in order to create family.

I love this topic. What you brought up is so, so interesting to me because I would say I experienced that firsthand. Um, and that was kind of what I was touching on earlier is that, you know, especially if you feel like you are a desirable partner, right?  I have a great job. I have this, I have that.

I would be a great mom. You you're on this pedestal that deserves this guy, right? Or, and I think you're so right. That we, when you have that perspective, you're just thinking of what's right now. Right. So who is this person right now? And I mean, this is a little off topic, but we could get into a whole discussion on, if you are just caring about aesthetic, what that might lead you to, but really, truly when you consider what matters. What matters, like you said in 20 years, you know, what matters in a father? If you were to really consider that, what would the best father possible look like?

You're not going to be considering height or looks or even their job because some of the best fathers are stay at home fathers. You know, some of the best fathers are, are just. Their priority is to be present with their kids. So they're not reaching for that corporate ladder. They're not reaching for the biggest house on the block, you know, and we get so distracted and, and it's interesting because I've seen firsthand, even families that create that perfect ideal thing that they're looking for.

And I've seen them be miserable. Yeah. They're putting kids in this world and providing them with material wealth or with, you know, this, this ideal that they're passing on. So I do think you're so right when it comes to that goal of motherhood, if you truly want to be a mother, and that feels like your goal reconsider your standard.

Like really think about that because. I've seen, you know, I was a matchmaker for a little bit, and I've seen those, the list, you know? 

Yes. I don't want much, I just told another episode. We need to talk. We need to talk about your time as a matchmaker actually. That's  so perfect. I can't wait to talk more about that with you.

You know, I want to take a small tangent and    also ask you, like, did you ever watch sex in the city? 

No, not really. I saw a couple episodes, but those of you out there that 

have watched it, and I think you all know, you know, are you a Samantha? Are you a Charlotte? What have you?

Um, what I find really moving is, is  Miranda's trajectory...   she is a lawyer  high power,  one of the girls.  And they're very glamorous and they're living their, their, fabulous New York lives. And,  she gets knocked up by a bartender. And, , he's almost embarrassing, you know, and she's just like, kind of can't even, but what's so interesting about her character arc is so for one, she ends up moving to Brooklyn, which,  everybody's like it's sex in the city, right?

Like they're supposed to be in Manhattan so they could easily have brunch. And instead,  she,  buys a house and,  refurbishes it. Has her child, you know, and, and, and he's a great father. He's, he's, he's so sweet and adorable. And at first she is kind of.

Tolerating him, because I think it was like, okay, you know what? I am going to have this baby. I have the means, and wherewithal to do this. So I'll  like deal with this guy. Right. He's fun enough,   but not. Not super taking him seriously. And there's a scene where, I think he finds a little candle.

It's like a, a one candle for their first, the baby's first birthday. And he's like, look what I got, look what I got. And she just  melts like her expression completely changes. And in that moment she realizes that she loves him. Like, it's almost like a backdoor. Like she, because of,  the pregnancy and the whole bonding.

But in that moment, she realized that she loved him. Which was really incredible. But the other thing is that I think her character becomes real in essence. So whereas the other ones go through their relationships in their emotional arcs.  For her, it's almost like the illusions get stripped away.

Like, she can still have, , fabulous brunches with the ladies, but she's also kind of, um, deepened her notion of what a full life is.   I think she ends up, they end up taking care of his mother who is a really annoying, like old lady. And she, at one point, I think she's helping bathe her.

So again, it's so not the glamorous life that they started out with. And like I said, I think for her, for me watching her, it's not because she has a kid and a husband that our life is complete. It's more that she allowed herself to be more than just. You know, the sex and the city check, right? Like she became a much more complete version of herself through,  that, that living.So...

That's so interesting.

And that's, that was her choice. Right. She could have easily chosen to push this man out of her life because he didn't meet the standard of what she was supposed to be, you know? Um, and that's really. I love that story, I guess I'll have to watch it now. It reminds me of my own story in a way, you know, and  it's so interesting because we are constantly making that choice throughout our lives throughout, you know, being single then throughout motherhood.

And I think that's why we see all of these potential stories turn out so differently from each other. I just love that story. 

I love giving space to those stories.

Um, they're fascinating. And your honesty about, maybe, what it seemed to look like it was going to be versus what it actually is. For instance. That space is some, it's such a rich place for discussion. Yes. just again, to,  notice that. We all mothers or others still have our own human problems.

I don't want to say problems, but you know, just, just our human considerations regardless of, of what we have in those realms. So 

yeah.  I think that's an interesting thing that I've realized as I have grown and evolved.  I I've heard the saying wherever you go.

There you are. And yeah, that's really it, you know, and,  it's really us there every day and what we choose, what we choose to. Dwell on what we choose to change what we choose to receive, what we choose to give it's. It doesn't matter what we're actually doing in life. It's really interesting that what matters is what we do in that moment, 

right?

Yeah. And it's no, that actually you are, um, helping me cue up my next question. Um, this is my last big question. I promise. Um, I love it. 

So 

Sarah, what's something you wanted when you were 10 that you still wanted when you were 15, still wanted, when you were 30 that you still want now. 

Oh, wow. I would have to say, to see the world to explore everything.

I love it. I love it. . And so you are with hotel, Kattaleya really leaning into that part of yourself that eternal, I'm going to call it an eternal part of yourself, right? At least for now. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 

I love that. And really, I think it is the fact that I could look at my life and see that that desire is the one desire.

That has, I mean, it's not the only desire. No, I, I think like all of us, I want love and I want fulfillment and joy, but tangible desire that has stuck with me from the time I was very young, was to see and experience the world and in its fullness, you know, not from a shallow perspective. Like, I just, I want to know, and that really has led me to hotel Kattaleya because it's been consistent throughout my life.

And it's something that I help my daughter appreciate it's that I, I care so much about giving her, you know, she'll probably be a home body. That's like, my mom dragged me all over the world, but, uh, but yeah, that really has been, um, what's brought me to this point in my journey. 

Yeah.  That's, that's beautiful.

And   it's been such a joy spending this time with you and, um, likewise. Yeah. And hearing about what you create and what you birth and what you, what you stand for. So thank you for sharing yourself with us 

today. You're welcome. Thank you for the amazing conversation that you always bring.

Thank you. And I promise I'm going to, I'm going to hit you up about matchmaking sometime soon. 

We'll have another episode on that. 

Perfect.