Xing - Tokyo

Today’s episode is an interview with an English teacher(Xing) from China, who lives in Tokyo. 

We have a chat about the differences between English learning in different countries and also about how you can feel different when you speak different languages, which is super-interesting!

Also, we talk about the pros and cons of being a non-native English teacher.

You will learn plenty of idioms, phrasal verbs and there is a special focus on different uses of the verb get. 

Thanks so much to Xing for contributing!

For classes - https://realexamenglish.com/classes/

For transcripts - https://realexamenglish.com/podcast/

For the Real Exam English app - https://studio.com/realexamenglish

Music: Wholesome by Kevin MacLeod
Link: https://incompetech.filmmusic.io/song/5050-wholesome
License: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/

intro xmas

Transcript

Hello and welcome to the Real Exam English podcast. 

Today’s episode is an interview with an English teacher from China, who lives in Tokyo. We have a chat about the differences between English learning in different countries and also about how you can feel different when you speak different languages, which is super-interesting. There are plenty of idioms, phrasal verbs and a special focus on different uses of the verb get. 

Remember you can get the transcripts for this and all episodes on the Real Exam English website, realexamenglish.com

Ok, let’s go for it!

So where are you from?

I'm from China.

Okay, and where do you live?

Now I live in Japan. I live in Tokyo, but I was born and raised in China.

Okay, great. Is English widely spoken in those countries? 

Well, I think in China, especially the big cities, I think, yeah, it's, people speak English, but it depends. I mean, in Shanghai, I think I wouldn't, it's really hard to say the percentage, but I would say most people can speak English because, if you need to have a job in Shanghai, like English is mandatory for most firms. But in Beijing, maybe not. But in Japan, I think English is getting more important than before. And for our school, I'm actually pretty surprised that, there are a lot of students in our school, like we teach business level English to adults, right? And most of Japanese students that I have met so far, they speak really good English.

Okay.

Yeah.

And why do you think there has been an increase in the level of English recently?

Well, with the rise of tourism, there are a lot of foreigners in Japan and it has brought big money to the country. I think that's number one. And also, there….Japanese companies that are having international departments or doing international business with other countries so that's why English is getting more important but on the other hand I have to say Japanese people are afraid of making mistakes because of their, you know, their culture they don't want to, yeah, bring trouble to other people when, so they're kind of like embarrassed or ashamed if they cannot, cannot, how should I say, express themselves correctly. And especially, in Japanese, in this language, they don't really, they don't have some pronunciations. For example, the R sound, and the V sound is also hard, and also TH sound. So they, that's why people make jokes about Japanese people speaking English, right? Like lice?

Yeah, flied lice, right?

Yeah, flied lice, yeah. But actually they can pronounce it for sure. It's more about muscle training.

Okay. And is that not a similar challenge for Chinese learners?

Not really. I think Chinese learners, we struggle more about the accent. Because, Chinese, I think the way Chinese, Chinese people speak is louder. And, we have a different rhythm when we speak. So, when it comes to speaking English, it's really interesting. I was actually teaching my mom English this morning. And she said, I don't, like, I don't like, I don't like rice. And it was funny to me because, yeah, I think she was using her Chinese mindset or Chinese way of, pronunciation, try to pronounce English. So yeah.

And about the being ashamed thing, is that the same in China or just to a lesser degree or what?

Lesser degree, for sure. I think Chinese people we’re really, we're kind of like straightforward and we are not really shy. 

Shameless. 

I wouldn't say that, but I think people are really brave. They don't, like, we don't mind making mistakes. Like my dad, when he, you know, when he travels abroad, even with, you know, gestures, you know, he can express himself fearlessly.

Alright, super interesting to hear about the differences between Japanese and Chinese attitudes. I loved the very first answer to the question where do you live. She said now I live in Japan, I live in Tokyo, but I was born and raised in China. Ok, I know a lot of people around the world live in a different city to the one they were born in, and as this is often the very first question in English exams, then this response is perfect. So for me, I could say I live in Alicante, but I was born and raised in Ireland, really nice and simple. 

Then Xing had loads of fantastic language to talk about speaking English with confidence, or not. So, to start off she said Japanese people are often afraid of making mistakes, that they are sometimes embarrassed or ashamed. Ok, these two adjectives are very similar in meaning, the difference is that ashamed is more about feeling guilty because you did something morally wrong, like lying, or cheating, whereas embarrassed is more about feeling awkward or self-conscious, like when you make a mistake or you call your teacher mom at school or something. So, when speaking about languages I guess embarrassed makes most sense, cause you feel self-conscious, although I suppose some people could feel ashamed too. So, she said they feel embarrassed or ashamed if they cannot, how should I say, express themselves correctly. I love the timing in this sentence, she gave a couple of pauses before and after how should I say, to tell the listener, I’m considering the correct way to state this…..if they cannot, how should I say, express themselves correctly. Another alternative instead of how should I say would be how should I put this. Like if someone gives a really terrible performance and you have to give them feedback you could say your performance, how should I put this, needs improvement.

Other useful adjectives she used were shy, brave and straightforward, which is clear, simple and direct. And she said her dad expresses himself fearlessly, lovely adverb, meaning, of course, without fear, not afraid to make mistakes. I, kind of tongue in cheek, suggested that Chinese people are shameless and Xing quickly dismissed that, she said I wouldn’t say that. Shameless kind of has negative connotations, like when you should be ashamed of what you are doing, but you are not. Like, the girl shamelessly robbed the sweets from the little child. 

Tongue in cheek, in case you are wondering, is when you say something that is a bit cheeky but intended to be funny, kind of in an ironic way, and Xing understood that, which is something we talk about a bit later in our chat, understanding humour in different languages, so well done Xing.

Just one little error to pick up on, and it’s quite a common one was when she said most of Japanese students speak good English. Ok, so the problem here is with OF, most of Japanese students. Ok you can say this correctly two ways, most Japanese students or most of THE Japanese students. If you are talking more in general then most Japanese students would be best to use, or if you are talking more specifically, like in this situation, it would be best to use most of the Japanese students I have met. A small little error but one that a lot of people make!

Obviously, you've got a fantastic level of English. Did you learn that in the school system in China?

No. I, when I was, I mean, English is mandatory in most Chinese schools. And it's actually similar to Japan. It's also really important here. However, it's more about passing exams. It was when I…I don't know about these days, but when I was a student back then, it was, speakin was never a thing that people paid attention to. It was all about grammar and reading and writing and listening. And I think the turning point, the turning point for me was when I was 16, I went to Australia for a summer camp. And that was the time, I started to realize, oh, speaking is really important. And that was the turning point actually in my life because I decided to study abroad because of that experience. And so to answer your question, back to what, yeah, that was a long story. I actually learned my English when I was studying in the US and the UK. I used to study in these two countries for six years.

Okay, great, so now at the moment you're teaching Business English to Japanese learners. And as a non-native English teacher, does that bring any advantages or disadvantages, do you think?

Let’s talk about the disadvantages. Okay. Because for me, there are two big challenges. Number one, perfectionism and number two, your ego, which is my ego, here. Because I am a perfectionist for sure. And I'm trying not to be one. And when you're having that mindset, it's really hard to allow yourself make mistakes. And I try to be a role model for my students because you only learn after making mistakes. But being a teacher is difficult because you think you should know everything. You feel embarrassed or ashamed when you make mistakes, right? And you really need to conquer that fear of making mistakes. So, I would say those two.

I think that's a great observation, and I think it's a very unfair pressure that is on non-native English speakers because me as a native English speaker, when I teach English in classes, I don't know everything, but I don't feel so guilty, I think, as you do. You know, like if I don't know something, like I'm like, hey guys, I don't know it. And it's like, okay, it's fine. Like you don't know everything in Chinese I'm sure, there's some words that you don't know or whatever. And that's fine, but as a non-native speaker, you're like, I have to be perfect. Whereas a native speaker is like, okay, I know what I know. And like, that's a fair enough level. You know, so it's kind of like an extra burden almost on a non-native speaker.

Yeah, exactly. That's why I said, that's why I said it was an albatross. Like really, but it's also a good lesson for me that I'm trying to tell myself every single day when I'm at work, go with the flow. It's fine. Whenever you make a mistake, you make a mistake, just admit it and admit that you don't know.

Yeah, that's totally fine, right?

Yeah, I'm getting better at this actually.

Great. And then on the other hand, like, from my experience working with non-native English-speaking teachers, like they're often better at grammar than the native English-speaking teachers because they've studied it and mastered it. Whereas I remember when I started teaching English and people were like, teach me the present perfect or whatever. And I was like, what the hell is that? I never heard of it, so do you have an advantage in that?

Yeah, that's the good point of being a non-native speaker, because we have had our struggles before. 

Yeah.

So, we know how our students feel like when they're facing the same issue or the same problem.

Yeah, you can empathize, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I can empathize for sure. So that's the big point. And also, and I think when you are talking to a non-native speaker, like you just mentioned, we are really picky about our own grammar, right? So, we try to make it easier for the student to understand everything. So, I think we have developed this mechanism to help them to learn. And that's the, yeah, that's our advantage, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. Yeah, I think every English teacher has to realize that as well and adjust their language depending on the level or every, not even an English teacher if you travel around the world. Like, I don't know, I've traveled quite a bit and you can't speak your usual complex language. Of course, you have to tone it down and speak a kind of general understandable English when you travel, like to be understood by everybody. 

Some super vocabulary here. The first one is albatross, and I must confess that I didn’t know the meaning of this word when I heard it first. So the context was when we were talking about non-native English teachers feeling this extra burden, and she said it was an albatross.  So, I have learned that an albatross, as well as its original meaning as a type of seabird, also has this metaphorical meaning of something that you want to be free from because it is causing you problems.  For example, Maria’s criminal past is like an albatross around her neck, or Andrea’s student debt has become a bit of an albatross, it will take forever to pay it off. Really nice, I didn’t know that one!

A lovely phrasal verb came up at the end of our chat there, I said, you have to tone your language down when travelling or speaking to people with lower levels of English. To tone something down means to make it less intense or to reduce the level of something, like the tone of a colour in a painting for example, which is where this expression comes from. We often use this when speaking about language, like if someone is speaking in an aggressive manner, you can say, alright tone it down, let’s have a civilized conversation. 

Speaking of conversation, I thought it was pretty interesting to listen back to myself and Xing’s interaction. So many yeahs. We had yea exactly, yea, that’s totally fine, yea that’s the point, yea, you can empathize, right? yea you can empathize for sure and yea, yea, yea, totally. Alright so this is exactly how people interact in real life, loads of yeas. Is it appropriate for an exam situation. Yea, it is. I mean, of course, we are repeating yea a lot of times, but we add on words like “totally”, “exactly” or “for sure”, so there is actually a lot of variety in the end. 

Something else good to use in an exam would be the idiom to go with the flow. She said that when she is at work she goes with the flow. This means she is relaxed and accepts whatever happens and deals with it, without getting too worried about it. You could use this when talking about something like a holiday too, like I don’t like to make plans, I prefer to just go with flow, see what happens.

A couple of small pronunciation corrections to pick up on. One, ironically, was with the words perfectionist and perfectionism. Ok, so the stress here should be on the second syllable, perfectionist, perfectionism. The other one was with mechanism, this one should be stressed on the first syllable, mechanism. These can be tricky because, for example, with mechanical we stress the second syllable but with mechanism we stress the first. You gotta trust your ears with these as much as possible, so the more language you are exposed to the more likely you are to pronounce these correctly.

Do you have a favorite word or expression in English?

Well, the only thing that came to my mind was spontaneous.

Wow.

I just like this word for no reason. I don't know. I just like it because it feels really free. And yeah, like I don't think I need to give you a specific reason for that. I just like it. For what it is.

You like the meaning of it or the sound of it or what?

I like all of it.

Wow. Interesting.

And I'm also trying to live it.

Right.

The way it is. Yeah.

So, it's a bit of a personal motto for you. 

I think so. I think so. be spontaneous.

All right, cool. Nice. And then the other aspects of English, or the fact that you're able to speak English, that you enjoy.

I think listening to your podcast. That was pretty British. Okay. Podcast. Sorry. Listening to your podcast is…it's really helpful actually, especially when I was preparing for the C2 exam, I was crazy. Like every day trying to get more information, more vocab, right? And I think, there are a lot of good podcast shows that you can listen to on Spotify or iTunes. I think that's the name for that, right? Okay. And also there are a lot of interviews. I like watching interviews. So you can really get to, you have this chance to expand your vocab. It's more about everyday vocab, but to a different level. And also, American dramas. I love watching it because like movies and dramas, it's really where you can get that culture, like the culture thing, the culture thing. And you can get why people laugh at things. And it's extremely important when it comes to learning English, because you need to know why people, why is it funny? 

Yeah.

Right? You need to get that sense of humor in order to really get to know this language. And I think also reading books, it's really fun. I'm keeping this habit, reading books in English. And though my C2 reading score sucks, but I haven't given up. I'm still working on that. So yeah, keep it as your habit is really important, I think.

Yeah, it's just such a fantastic way to learn vocabulary and grammar, like in a more fun, natural way, isn't it? 

Yeah. 

The funny comment is so on the ball because like it's so hard….I think that's a very high level thing though, right? Like, to learn humor in another language is really tricky. Like, because so many jokes are like word plays and things like that, it's like you have to have a really good level to get it, I think.

Yeah, exactly right. And I think it's really, it's more about the mindset. So now I'm a trilingual. I can speak Chinese, Japanese, and English, right? And sometimes, when you can speak the language, you can actually put yourself in their shoes to think. You can really understand why people think that way from a different culture, you know, from a different country. So, it actually brings, it brings you more understanding and more empathy and love in a sense. I have, I've met people who only speak one language, their mother tongue. And often they're kind of like close-minded and they're not really, I'm not saying all of them, but if you compare to bilinguals or trilinguals or people speak more than four languages, I think those people, they're more open-minded in the sense that they're willing, they're more curious about the world and they can empathize more because they have many different kind of mindsets. They can switch in between, right? So I think that's, I really encourage people, even though if you are at your 60s, I have a lot of students who are at their 60s or 70s in Japan, they're still learning. I really admire that. And it's inspiring to me that it's never too late to learn anything. So yeah.

Great. A question popped into my head there when you were speaking about the three different languages. Do you feel different in the three different languages?

Oh yeah, for sure. I feel like I have different characteristics. I'm playing different roles when I'm speaking different languages, right?

Okay, wow.

Yeah, when I'm speaking American English, you know, when I'm speaking English.

I thought you were going to say American. Oh my God.

American English, yeah. Because it feels different. I don't know, like when you're speaking British English, it feels more royal in a sense. Like you are more like, you know, distant, right? I don't know. And yeah, when I'm speaking, when I'm speaking English, I feel I'm more out, you know, outgoing.

Okay.

I don't know why. Maybe, I think probably because this language itself is really straightforward. Yeah, the expression is just really straightforward. So it really brings out that part of me to be an extroverted person, I guess.

Wow, okay.

But yeah, being a Chinese speaker, being a Chinese, you know, I think I would say the humble side in me. 

Okay.

Yeah, the Japanese character is more about like, feel shy a little bit and don't want to make mistakes like, yeah, excuse me like that. Yeah.

Wow, that's amazing, right? But that's like kind of encapsulates those 3 cultures in a way as well, right?

Yeah, really, really, it's really interesting. Like I have been observing myself. I, this is really interesting, this is really interesting. I went to a sushi restaurant today with my husband and I caught myself afraid of asking the chef questions, even though I knew how to ask the questions.

Right.

I just, I just didn't, I just, I wasn't sure whether, you know, it was appropriate to ask the question.

Yeah.

But when I'm speaking Chinese or English, I wouldn't even think about that. I just I just go ahead and ask. 

Wow, fascinating insights there, I wonder how you guys feel when you speak English. Maybe you could leave a comment on Spotify or I will put a post on Instagram too and you can say if you feel differently when speaking English. As she said, English brings out the extrovert in her. This phrasal verb to bring out, in this context, means to draw out or to produce a certain quality. Like, teaching teenagers brings out the worst in her, she gets so frustrated. Or, adversity often brings out the best in people.

When she was telling her anecdote about the sushi restaurant she said she caught herself afraid of asking a question. If you catch yourself doing something then you kind of suddenly realise that you are doing something, it’s like a moment of self-awareness. For example, I caught myself shouting at my daughter this morning, I felt so ashamed. Or I caught myself about to watch another stupid reel on social media, so I switched off the phone.  

We had some top idioms here too. I told her one of her comments was on the ball. This means it is really accurate, or showing great awareness. Like your decision to buy property last year was on the ball, it has worked out well. Or you could say the politician was really on the ball in that TV interview, he had a great answer for every question they asked him.

The other idiom to highlight is to put yourself in someone’s shoes. I think a lot of languages have some variation of this idiom. Meaning to imagine yourself in someone else’s position. Like, put yourself in my shoes, what would you do?

The last thing I want to shine a light on is the use of the word get. In her first answer here she used get in 5 different ways. You are probably all aware that get has hundreds of different uses in English, so I’m gonna challenge you to say what the meaning is of the 5 different gets that Xing used. I will give you the example, if you like you can pause the audio and think about what the meaning is, and I will then give the explanation. Are you ready? So the first one is: 

I was trying to get more information. So, get here means to acquire new information.

Next is, I like watching interviews as you get to expand your vocab. Get here means you have the opportunity to expand your vocab.

Number 3, TV dramas are where you get that culture thing. Ok, this one means to find that culture thing.

4 is you can get why people laugh at things. Meaning you can understand why people laugh. With this one, you have to emphasize the get when you say it. Do you get the joke. Yea, I get it.

And the last one was to get to know this language. Meaning start to learn more about it. 

Alright, 5 gets with different meanings, only another 500 different meanings of get to learn, wahey! You’ll just have to listen to more podcasts to get to hear about them.

And that is all we have time for today. Thanks so much to Xing for telling us about her experiences, it was great, and thanks very much to you for listening. Next up is going to be episode one of season 6!

Until then, take care!

Trevor