Embracing Depth and Versatility

Lisa Hopkins

This is the Stop Time Podcast . I'm your host , lisa Hopkins , and I'm here to engage you in thought-provoking , motivational conversations around practicing the art of living in the moment . I'm a certified life coach and I'm excited to dig deep and offer insights into embracing who we are and where we are at . So my next guest is currently starring as George Washington in the Broadway Company of Hamilton . He has appeared in the Broadway national tours of Love Never Dies , the sequel to Broadway's Phantom of the Opera , the Gershwin's Porgy and Bess and Broadway celebration of Harlem's Golden Age After Midnight , and was seen as the crab man at the Spoleto Festival's production of Porgy and Bess and as featured singer in the PBS broadcast of Showboat at Lincoln Center .

Lisa Hopkins

He's a proud first-generation American , born of Jamaican and British parents , and a versatile artist whose musical passions mirror his eclectic background . As a writer , arranger , classical pianist and singer , he combines much of his inspiration from classical music , reggae , hip-hop , r&b , blues and jazz . His passion for performance and teaching is matched by his passion for social and racial justice . He's an original member of the Hamilton Racial Justice Task Force , now called HAM for Progress . Through his work on the task force , he has helped to organize company-wide efforts to raise census awareness , increase national voter registration and put action to the importance of investing in communities of color . He holds a Master of Music from the Eastman School of Music and two bachelor degrees from SUNY Oswego a BA in Music with a focus in vocal and piano performance , and a BA in Computer Information Systems from SUNY Oswego a BA in music with a focus in vocal and piano performance and a BA in computer information systems from SUNY Oswego as well . I am so looking forward to getting to know Tamar Greene . Welcome , tamar .

Tamar Greene

Hello Lisa , how are you doing ?

Lisa Hopkins

I'm doing well . I can see you're responding to hearing me read that back , right ?

Tamar Greene

Yeah , I was like listening . I was like actually listening to the things , I was like oh , yeah yeah , those are things . Those are things that happen . You know , it's been a wild ride .

Lisa Hopkins

Yeah Well , sometimes it's nice just to sit here and honor you for taking the ride . I mean , we could talk about your credits and yada yada . But at this point , here you are , the human , the human behind the headlines , sitting with me , taking a time to you know . Remember that you're , you're real and I see you .

Tamar Greene

Wow , thank you . I appreciate that . I really do Like it is sometimes rare to to have this moment of like just being just being real , you know , and not having to , yeah , be anything else . But correct .

Lisa Hopkins

Ps , if you've done it , it ain't bragging so and you did it so , so I do honor you . I mean , I honor you for them . It's pretty impressive yeah , well , I appreciate that , yeah so there's thing , there was one thing in your bio that you know , one thing is not like the other . I'm so curious . You know what I'm talking about . So . So how's that computer information systems thing serving you ? These ?

Tamar Greene

days . You know it is , it was it serves me . Actually it does serve me . I've learned a lot about .

Tamar Greene

I've always grew up loving technology and wanted to learn more about it . And I grew up first a musician and with a family of musicians and appreciators of music . But I always had the tech mind . I always had the tech mind . And so when I was going to choose a college degree , I kind of just decided to not do the music thing because I didn't know what it meant to have a career in music . I'm like I'm not going to , I'm going to , I'm going to do something else . And so I recognized that you know the tech passion of mine and just chose a degree .

Tamar Greene

Basically , I literally went to the advisor and like I know computer something and then she opened the book and like there was a ton of computer things and I literally just picked one but it . But it served me well . I learned a lot of coded . I've done database management . Actually , after I graduated from Oswego I actually got a job as a tech support manager for a little bit before I went to my master's program . So you know , I got some of that exposure and now it helps me with audio engineering and things like that , because I understand that world . Or working with the crew at a show or something like that and understanding what they need when they tell me to take care of my mics your well is so deep .

Lisa Hopkins

Where does that come from ? Where does this I get the sense from you ? I don't tell me to take care of my mics . Your well is so deep , where does that come from ? Where does this , this I get the sense from ? I don't know you , but just I did . You know , I did some research , obviously , and I'm getting the sense that your well runs so deep , of what you're interested in , where you could go talk to me . Where does that come from ?

Tamar Greene

oh , oh , that's a good question . I think that comes from . I think , honestly , comes from being a first generation American . I think I have a . I've bonded often and I love to bond with other first generation Americans , no matter where they come from , because we have similar stories of our parents being from somewhere you know solidly from there and they're immigrants here . We carry that culture here , but we also recognize that we are raised in a different culture and so we play this game of trying to figure out all the things and understand all things , uh , while trying to be our parents , you know , like whatever country you know , and also be also American enough in a way , you know , and so it's like it's just , it's this weird dichotomy of really loving where I , where my history is and my you know ancestral history , but also wanting to establish myself here and be that goal that my , you know , the dream that my parents , our parents , wanted , you know . So I think I really feel like that's probably where that comes from , with me wanting to devour the world and devour information .

Lisa Hopkins

That's the right word . I mean , yeah , it's like a hunger , right , it's like yeah it really is .

Tamar Greene

I , even when I , when I did the opera stuff , I'm like I love languages and I want to I want to learn everything I can about these languages , and so I studied a lot of these different languages and I'm interested in that and , um , when I find something new and technology wise , I like to learn that . Even when I first learned how to drive , I was like I don't want to drive , I don't know how to drive stick shift , so I bought a stick shift .

Lisa Hopkins

Of course you did .

Tamar Greene

Like I was like what kind of fool just buys a stick shift but don't know how to drive it . Because I wanted to learn it , I wanted to know its secrets , you know , and that's kind of what drives me .

Lisa Hopkins

Wow , you know it's very unique because someone else might be telling me from a similar background , might be telling me something completely different , Like they might be saying to me no , I'm first generation and I'm honoring my parents brought me here . You know , they went through a lot of stuff and you know it's difficult because , I mean , you know your perspective is so wide open . It's so . You know , I feel like you understand , you understand the privilege of coming and that that does honor your parents , right , but you don't . But you also don't . I can't , I can't put my finger on it . You're tremendously talented , right , but it seems like you're good at everything you do . Is that true ? Is that fair to say ?

Tamar Greene

uh , that's a tough question ask me . I don't know um I I do the best can Put hubris aside , seriously put hubris aside , and do you feel like ?

Lisa Hopkins

do you and I truly mean this as an interested person Like do you , when you approach stick shift when you bought the car , was the voice in your head saying , well , I don't know how to do it , but I can figure it out ? Or was it saying I'm going to get this , I'm going to learn how to do this thing , because I don't know how to do it ? Where do you come from ?

Tamar Greene

Yeah , I think those two sentences actually coexist . Yeah , I think when I find something I don't know how to do , I definitely am like I'm going to figure it out .

Conquering Challenges and Embracing Growth

Tamar Greene

I talk a lot about how I grew up very shy , incredibly crippling , crippling shy , and it took me a while to get there . But where I am now , obviously it's like no one would ever imagine that I was a super shy kid . You know the way I'm on stage and do this , do this , the acting in this career . But like I was and the way I talk about it with kids , I'm like I actually use it . Right , they talk about fight or flight .

Lisa Hopkins

Yeah .

Tamar Greene

And I truly do . I like that fight Right Like I'm scared . It scares the hell out of me . So I'm going to do it .

Tamar Greene

I remember , I remember my my day view of Hamilton and I was , I was like frightened . I was like everyone knows this massive musical right , everyone knows it , everyone knows all the words . I'm really good at messing up words and so I was like , after doing all of my you know weeks and weeks of rehearsal and stuff like that , I did the hard work and then I remember standing stage left about to walk onto my first lines and like my brain started freaking out when I forgot all my words and I was like no , no , breathe and just take that step . You got this .

Tamar Greene

You got this , you know . So I love to conquer that stage , right . I always , even when I do my solo concerts and stuff like that I'm like it scares me to stand on stage and do a solo concert and talk about myself . I'm like , what if they hate myself ? What scares me to stand on stage and do a solo concert and talk about myself ? I'm like what if they hate myself ? What if they don't like me , you know ? And I'm like , just do it , just do it and conquer it , because then you're that much better . Yeah , you know so . Yeah , so it is . Yeah . So with driving , yeah , the stick shift , I get it . I'm like I can figure it out . I know I can , I know I'm smart enough to figure it out . I know I can figure out pretty much . Anything Like that's what I feel when I go into it , and if I fail , then whatever . But I'm going to . I think I'm pretty . Yeah , I think you're right . I think I'm pretty good at a lot of things and I'm sure I can do it .

Lisa Hopkins

Well , is there something now that's kind of you know your next conquest ? Is there something else that's really exciting to you that you haven't tried or that you can't do , or you think you know haven't done ?

Tamar Greene

um , let me see , I , I , I think the my , I guess my next it's like this looming project is is my album . That is , that has been a looming project of mine that I I actually haven't been able to conquer quite yet , not giving up on it yet , obviously . But I make little steps here and there and I'm working on it with friends and doing different arrangements and things like that . But I can't quite yet figure out how exactly I want to release this project to the world or do what to put on that project . But that is my looming thing , that I'm like I need to conquer this and I'm excited about it . It also stresses me out .

Lisa Hopkins

For sure . What do you do when you're stressed out about something like that ? Do you put it off or do you go harder ? What do you do ?

Tamar Greene

Yeah , I do . Sometimes , to be honest , I do put it off . I'm sometimes as good as I try to be and better as I try to be honest , I do put it off , I do . I'm sometimes as as good as I try to be and better as as I try to be with managing stress . I sometimes am . I used to joke that I am the one I do cry over spilled milk sometimes , like if I was to literally drop a gallon of milk in my kitchen I would be really annoyed and walk away . I'd come back but I definitely would be really angry and like ah , it's everywhere I got it . Ah , and it's going to . Ah , it's under the stove . Oh , my gosh .

Lisa Hopkins

I love that , but you probably need that every now and then . Right , you should go break some bottles of milk .

Tamar Greene

Maybe , maybe I should . To conquer that right , just spill some milk no , that's , that's a great catch .

Lisa Hopkins

Right of noticing what , of noticing what you do , hey ? So I I'm guessing life is pretty busy for you right about now , with what ? Eight shows a week being george and then 24 7 being dad yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah , it is .

Tamar Greene

Uh , it is a wild time . Uh , my son is now , uh , will be 11 months in two days . Almost a year and it's been a wild year . I've been really trying to talk about conquering challenges . I've been really trying to show up eight shows a week because I'm passionate about what I do , I love to do what I do and this baby has been a nice little challenge of what can I do on no sleep ? How's my brain still work ? Does it still work ? Can I do even the other thing ?

Tamar Greene

I mean cause I do so many other things , sometimes outside of side of the shows yeah , um , so it's been an interesting year with this beautiful little human who has us exhausted , my wife and I , all the time . So it is . It is a beautiful thing , though it really is a . It is a beautiful thing and I feel like you know , when you're on , you're driving and you make a different turn and it says recalculating . I feel like my spirit is constantly recalculating , like my . My brain is recalculating .

Lisa Hopkins

That's interesting .

Tamar Greene

Yeah .

Lisa Hopkins

Yeah .

Tamar Greene

It's like I can feel . I can feel the change . You know like I'm growing with my child .

Lisa Hopkins

Yes .

Tamar Greene

It's , it's , it's a bizarre thing , thing . It's a bizarre thing to to yeah , to go through it's , it's so real .

Lisa Hopkins

The thing about a child is that you can't like conquer it , like do you know ? You can't get like like , you've got to go with the flow . And it's true . I love that there's like this conscious recalibration that you're having of like something's , something shifting . Does that scare you at all ? Like , does it make you like what comes up for you when you feel that ?

Tamar Greene

he was here , we would kind of get into the cycle of you know what we're going to do to raise him right . What music should ? We play while he's in utero , like all the you know what would make him the smartest ? How do we teach an infant math and want him to be a savant and do you know all this , all this stuff , we get into the weeds , even like food . Right , we're like in this country where there's so much , so many toxins and foods and things .

Tamar Greene

What can't we feed them what ? No , we shouldn't have that . No , don't do this . No , we can't warm it up . A bottle of a microwave ? No , don't do that . Okay , we're going to do this one . And it gets overwhelming . It really does get overwhelming . And like we , we , we are humans of the world . Right , we , we , didn't have knowledge of it . Our parents didn't have knowledge of a lot of these things . Not that , not that we can't try to do better , right . But with that knowledge , we know that we can't .

Tamar Greene

We're not going to ruin this child because we're okay , let's , you know , let's let's go to the foundation that we're okay and we'll try to do better with certain things that's hard to check back in on . It takes a little while of spiraling to come back and be like okay , I'm getting a little off .

Lisa Hopkins

It's normal and it's par for the course . But you're absolutely right , they are the most resilient . They're going to save themselves .

Tamar Greene

Yeah , yeah , that's why they , you know they .

Lisa Hopkins

They get what they want . They get what they need . I mean , there are survival machines . Talk about fight or flight . Right , I mean , they are fighting , fighting , fighting for survival . They don't have the conscious brain that we've developed yet that tells us this is good , this is bad , it's just like no , I want food , I need to sleep . I'm going to scream until I get it .

Tamar Greene

I'm going to scream until I get it . And too bad about you . Right , I'm selfish , unapologetically . I don't even know what selfish means .

Lisa Hopkins

Exactly . I came across something that you said Actually you said about , I think , when you were researching George Washington , and it stood out you said that we only know him for his wins , but he's only there because of his failures , which is a great catch , right , and that goes for a lot of well-known folks , and I just kind of want to ask you what gifts have you received from your failures ? What learnings ?

Tamar Greene

learnings . Ooh , yeah , okay , let me think a little bit on that one . Um , I I'd say I've had .

Lessons Learned

Tamar Greene

Okay , I'll answer first with the first thing in my mind . I don't think of , um , maybe earlier things , but I think like , let's say , like I'm , I'm doing the show and I'm like not having a great vocal week , you know , and that obviously happens for humans . And let's say , you're doing a big number , history or whatever , and like I've had I don't have to speak in this way I have had moments where I have not had great vocal weeks and I have done these big numbers like history , where you're singing kind of the first big note , and then I had like a big crack right , and that's one way I'll say like that's on mine . You know these are minor things , but that's one way that I learned .

Tamar Greene

Actually , I , I used to be especially with opera , the opera background . I used to be just you're frightened of , of cracking . You know , for a tenor , as I was at least , it was like they live for the high note at the end . That is what it is about . That is what makes you famous . You know , it has to be pristine . And so I felt like in in college they really groom you to be like in fear of ever messing up . Um , that's not reality . It's , it's truly not reality . So when it happens , you know , I've seen work with a lot of different people who , if they were to have a , have a crack mid-show , they would . They would call out second act , you know , and go home and and then rest for several days and vocal rest scarf on their neck and then I'll see you next week .

Tamar Greene

You know , um , and I , you know , for better or worse , I don't know I , the way I approach it now and is I , I again strive to be , to be better and , like , learn around it , because I know I'm a person have allergies . Um , I'm allergic to a lot of different . I mean cats , dogs , trees , pollens , sawdust , I mean , like I'm allergic to the world in many ways . So like I'm always going to be under in some way . I'm always going to be facing something extra mucus , going on , it's always going to be something . So it's not feasible for me to just call it , you know . So I have to figure it out . So , if I crack in the middle of a thing and I'm embarrassed , one thing I learned is to forgive myself . Forgive myself quickly and hard , right , like and , and and move on yeah and then and figure it out .

Tamar Greene

You know , if I did that in act one , I'm like , okay , recalibrating , you know I have to , I have to approach in act two , I have to , you know , maybe do some warm-ups , maybe get some tea , checking on what I can do . Don't push so much in the beginning of this so that I can have a little bit more gas for the end . I'm I'm constantly doing those calculations , um , in my mind . So that that's one thing I learned from like making mistakes , like on stage yeah , yeah , you said there were other .

Lisa Hopkins

Are there others ?

Tamar Greene

yeah , no , I forgot , I said yeah damn it lisa , I actually really listen .

Tamar Greene

No , you do , You're really good . You're really good . Oh , let me see , yeah , I think I've had even like financial mishaps , right , like things that I've tried to do that I entrusted folks to take care and and they proved that they weren't able to do that and I , you know , and I lost a lot , right , I lost like a decent amount of money and I've learned from . I learned from that , but I also learned from even like like family members , like watching . I'm I'm one of 10 , I have a lot , of , a lot of siblings . My mom was one of nine , so I have a lot of like case studies in my family to be able to watch and see , and so if I'm like , okay , I see that , I see how this person managed money , you know , like well , it's interesting .

Lisa Hopkins

I mean , if I can interrupt you , because , you don't have to tell me all the details . What I what I find really interesting is that I think what you're talking about , but maybe you can clarify you , because you don't have to tell me all the details . What I find really interesting is that I think what you're talking about , but maybe you can clarify , is that you trusted that someone would show up in a certain way or that they could do something , or that they would do something . Is that what you're talking about ? That you learned that sometimes the blind trust is not .

Tamar Greene

Yeah , I think the blind trust is not yeah , it's not , yeah , it's , it's not it . So what it , in a way I'd say , like it . It has taught me how to truly be a little bit more self-sufficient , to , like , do a little bit more of my own research , um , and be more involved in , in all of my handlings , right , like even my whatever what I do . Now it's like I'm even if I don't know how to do it , I'm going to learn to a little bit of accounting and then I'm going to let my accountant do the thing , but I'm going to know what you're doing . You know I want to . I'm going to figure that out . You know , with my concert work and stuff , like on my own , I was my own manager for pretty much everything and I just now got a manager , you know because but I but now I know how to do all of the things and I'm only passing it off because I'm too busy , but I know everything that you're doing .

Tamar Greene

You know what I mean yes , I do yeah , so like being aware I've never . I'm no longer just like blindly , like trusting close to do certain things . I'm involved in everything and I know how to do enough of everything to know when it's right and , importantly , to know when it's wrong .

Lisa Hopkins

That's pretty cool . So how does control show up ? That sounds to me like control in a good way . You're taking control , you want to take control and you do it through education . You do it through picking the right people , and that totally makes sense . Why is that important to you ? Why have you found that you need to do that ?

Tamar Greene

I think it is because if I , if I'm involved in it , if I'm because because I know that I , I know I have sense , right , I know I have sense that I am a smart man , Uh , and , and I , yeah , and I think it's important to have . I think it's important , I think it's important for you to be involved and to make those decisions . I've seen , I just have seen a lot of people not involved in their matters whatever matters it is , whatever it is , and just have some major failures . And I'm like , if you only had a little bit more education on that , like I feel like you could have really been successful at something you know .

Tamar Greene

So I just think it's really important to have maintain that level of control in your life and to make sure you are . You are the one in charge of your own life right , your own decisions .

Lisa Hopkins

You are the one in charge of your own life , right your own decisions . Yeah , I would venture to say it's really responsibility more than control . It's not that you're a controlling person , but Right right , right right Because . I'm not hearing you say I blame you for that and because you screwed up , I have to do it now . You're not saying that You're going ah , that didn't work , I trusted it would work . What can I going ? Ah , that didn't work , I trusted it would work . What can I learn from this ?

Tamar Greene

yeah , I can learn how to do it . I love that . Right to me , that's it feels absolutely yeah , absolutely , absolutely yeah . Not , not like a controlling kind of mindset , just like , okay , I've learned , yep , um , let me be better at that .

Lisa Hopkins

Yeah yeah yeah , absolutely no , that makes sense . It very cool . How do you define success ? You know everyone defines it differently and maybe it'll change . I'm sure it will change .

Tamar Greene

But in this moment , what does success look like for you ? Success , yeah , you're right , it does change . It tweaks a little bit over time .

Tamar Greene

But I think the foundation of my definition has always been doing what you love and being able to sustain your life through that . Yeah , you know so , you know , I used to . I used to think it was Success is being rich or winning all the awards or whatever you know doing that kind of thing and having a certain level of recognition , whatever you know doing that kind of thing and having a certain level of recognition . But like it truly is . As and as I'm , as I'm getting older , I'm like , oh , success will be like you know , having being able to very comfortably pay your mortgage on time and um and also go on vacations , because I love vacation . Go on a trip , um , you see something you like and be able to purchase it . You know like , and just live with peace , peace in your life .

Lisa Hopkins

Yeah .

Tamar Greene

That would be my yeah , that would be my current definition of success .

Lisa Hopkins

I love it , hey , if we were meeting a year from now after this conversation and we were we were . You're not allergic to champagne , are you ?

Tamar Greene

Oh , absolutely not . Okay , perfect , good we can still perfect .

Lisa Hopkins

Good , we can still be friends . No , so if we were meeting a year from now over a bottle of champagne and you were saying you know , lisa , this has been the most amazing year , what will we be celebrating ?

Tamar Greene

Hmm , well , um , we will be celebrating um . Professionally , I would celebrating a , a new role , like the ability to creating a new role , um , from conception , you , you know , like something that's in workshops . It's exciting to be able to pour yourself into a work , in the origin of a work , you know , and do that work and do that research , even on the character , and all that like that's very exciting . So in a year's time , yeah , let's just toast to that . I think there's other things that I just um , we just are . We're in the process of buying a home , so I'll toast . I can toast to that now , I guess . But nice , congrats , um , thanks , yeah , so we're looking forward to like having a bit of that peace and that joy and having more space for all for us and the baby on toast to that too yeah , very , it's interesting to think about it .

Lisa Hopkins

right , we often go for these things and we know , like you knew , you knew , you've got some things in your mind about what you'd like to do .

Lisa Hopkins

I'm working with my clients , I'm always saying you know , the words you use are so important and you know , when I asked you the question as a future sort of thing , I love that you said we will be celebrating . You didn't say we would be . There was no . If there , you're like , we will be . I just point that out and that's the way you roll , like , like if that's what you want , that's what you're going to get , that's what you're going to do . Clearly .

Tamar Greene

That's so funny yeah .

Lisa Hopkins

I didn't pick up on that myself . So , yeah , down right , absolutely . I love it . So are you ? Would you ? Are you ambitious ? Are you open ? Are you both ? Is it some kind of beautiful alchemy of those two things ?

Tamar Greene

um , yeah , you're really good . I like these guys . It it's so , it's so good , like to to , just to , to , to talk with you . It's like these are such good questions . I'm like man , all right , let me , let me dive in . It'll take me a second to like , really answer these questions and I love that .

Tamar Greene

Um , I , I would say that I am . I'm definitely ambitious . I have so much I want to do in the world , but I'm not rigid in those things . So I also am as a kid and did competitions and that's pretty much what I thought I was going to be . You know , I wanted to be a concert pianist at one point and as I went to school for it , I practiced a lot .

Tamar Greene

Right , I practiced for hours . You're in a room by yourself and your piano and you're practicing a ton and trying to memorize so much of this , this , these sonatas and this , this music . I was passionate at that time about being successful in that realm . But then I started feeling a shift in the world and I was feeling like , is it actually a piano that I want to do ? And I went to Eastman and I started seeing these incredible pianists like I thought I was good , I was pretty decent . But I've seen these other people were like really truly incredible . And I'm like , okay , okay , I'm gonna work . Um , you know what , let me , let me try a little something else . I'm gonna shift a shift a little bit . People keep telling me about this voice thing . I'm going to try that out . And so I've been kind of like shifting that way .

Passion and Ambition in Performing Arts

Tamar Greene

Like I know , at the foundation I wanted to share my interpretation of music with the world in some way , my passion for it in some way . But I've always been open to how the world will shift me and change me . And even when I went to I went to get my master's in opera , you know , I was like , okay , this is what I'm going to do . I like , I love this . Like I said earlier , I love devouring languages .

Tamar Greene

And then I started really truly discovering what musical theater meant to me and what it , what the capabilities of it in the world and and the you know , the acting and things like that . And I was like , okay , well , maybe I'll learn this actual thing and try to see if that's , that's it , cause it didn't quite feel right yet in opera , even though I still love doing it , it wasn't quite right . So I shifted a bit , but my , I always had the still , though , that ambition of , of success in this thing . I want to be the best I can be in this craft where I'm using my body or my fingers right For for uh , uh , interpreting text , or interpreting music , or sharing with the world .

Lisa Hopkins

Yeah .

Tamar Greene

Yeah , yeah . So so , yeah , I do like to . You know , I always I'm always seeking something , something new , something fresh . I'm always seeking that next thing . Um , as well , I'm not like , but I'm not bouncing around right , I've been in Hamilton for like six years , so like I still . You know , I love , I love what I do , but I am always seeking other things and have that ambition to like . I want to be seen too . I want other people to . I want to share this right . I want to be seen , but at the same time , I want to , I want to share this gift , right . I do believe it is a , it is a gift that is meant to be shared , and I want to do it with greater and greater audiences and connect more with more artists and be more and more creative .

Lisa Hopkins

Yeah , how does ? How does boredom show up for you , If at all ? I'm curious .

Tamar Greene

How does boredom show up for me ? You know I'm not . I feel like I . I feel like sometimes I do have two separate brains Like I . I do feel like like I love to . You know I am a . I do feel like like I love to . You know I am a introvert , I think , foundationally with extrovert tendencies . So you know , I love to . I love to go out and mingle with friends , have good conversations . I'm also very happy to like sit on my couch and devour the next TV show and just like and be right . So I'm never I'm never really like bored Cause I actually do .

Lisa Hopkins

I do enjoy time with myself well , it's a great segue , because it sounds like you really just live in the moment . So when you're doing something , you're not thinking about oh , what am I going to do next ? It doesn't mean that you don't swirl around , like you shared with me about you kind of know that there's something , there's more and and .

Lisa Hopkins

But I think you've kind of you've created a pattern in your life where that's the way that's how it happens . It sounds like there's some trust around that . So you maybe don't know what it is . You're not necessarily hungrily looking for it . You know you're not in Hamilton going God , you know . Like what am I going to add ? Or you go to Hamilton and you do your thing , so you're living in the moment , clearly right , you're focused on the moment , which is , you know , that's definitely , I'm all about it , right ?

Lisa Hopkins

I mean , that's what it's called , and so I don't even need to ask you what your definition of living in the moment is . But I am . I mean , you can give it to me if you want , but you know , I feel like you're your own catalyst . Has there been anything else that's ever been a catalyst for you ? But I get the sense that you catalyze everything . You make stuff happen , you go for it .

Tamar Greene

Yeah , I am my own catalyst . You're right , I certainly am . But I do that by taking in the world right and taking in advice from other people . Like I'd say , even with going to do like the Broadway musical theater , I should say I wouldn't have , I don't think , if it wasn't for , like this teacher in school , miss Watson , just was like , hey , you might want to look at the motown , you know they're doing the thing you're . I saw you're doing this thing . Do you want to do that thing ? I'm like oh , yeah , okay , yeah , let me , let me figure out what that means . Thank you for that . Um , yeah , you know .

Tamar Greene

Or like , uh , my wife , right , we , we met on tour and and she had been in the business for a few years more than I had in the musical theater business and so she showed me a lot of the , the broadway world and what that meant and inspired me to do other things or even like getting some of the business stuff together , resume stuff or whatever it is . She really helped me with those things I've had . It was a friend actually of mine , specifically , even in Hamilton she . She said like , oh yeah , I think you'd make a good George Washington and I was like I don't see it , you know . But she , she did and and it was in the back of my mind I was like , okay , let me go , let me see what's going on . So yeah , I do in that kind of open-minded stuff we were talking about before you know go kind of vibe a little bit .

Tamar Greene

It is a , it's a . It's a little both . I'm like , okay , I didn't think of that thing , I'm gonna take that in , I'm gonna take it to my own mental like board and have a board meeting with myself , literally , and then I'm gonna love it and I'm gonna , and then I'm gonna choose like , all right , this is what we're doing , let's try it out you know , why did you ?

Lisa Hopkins

why did you come on the podcast ?

Tamar Greene

because you don't know me you know I yeah , I don't know you , but I looked at your work and I saw you speaking with friends of mine and I was like , yeah , this looks like a , a trusted human I can have a conversation with , and it's nice to , it's nice to slow down . Sometimes , you know , it's nice to just like take a pause , uh , because in my life there is no . Sometimes it's just go , go , go .

Tamar Greene

You know me and my wife both we were literally talking about last night's just go , go , go . You know . So like it is nice to just like sit down for a minute and , um , yeah , have a conversation with somebody , with a , with a decent human , and you seemed like a decent human that's cool .

Lisa Hopkins

What would you say ? What would you say , is your achilles heel I ?

Tamar Greene

I would say as much as I , as much as I was talking about conquering these things , I , I would say that one way it manifests I'm looking for the other thing , but one way it manifests itself is my like , like the stage right thing we were talking about Um , and so sometimes that is , that is um , it , it .

Tamar Greene

it is a thing that I , I want to conquer , and I do conquer in many different ways , but it is always a thing you know , that just like , is kind of that like weakness that shows weakness , that shows up in many forms that might sway my decisions or choices , with things I might do or whatever , like you know , it is still a factor .

Tamar Greene

So , even if I'm like , hey , I chose to do this particular thing , but maybe I didn't do these two things because I let that voice speak thing , but maybe I didn't do these two things because I let that voice speak , um , yeah , or even if it's uh , I think another way that that that thing manifests itself is even in social ways as well . I spend , I think I spend my life figuring out what that thing is . People thinking that I am quiet , which I am , but I'm trying to analyze that in myself and I'm like , actually , no , I just , in particular sometimes with who I open up with and who I talk to , can just be completely themselves in every environment . And I'm not that , you know , if I walk into a room , I'm like I should be , should be networking , or it should be talking to whatever and mingling whatever . I .

Tamar Greene

I feel like this anxiety a lot of times in those , in those moments , and I'm like I think I should peace out . I think I'm a peace out , you know , and so that's the kind of those . It's . It's similar to that what , what few fuels , the uh stage fright , not exactly the same , but it is a similar foundation and those two things . That , like it , scares me , you know . So it makes more work for me to have to conquer after , and I like to conquer , but it is . It is this looming .

Lisa Hopkins

Yeah , I'd love to respond to that , if it's okay with you .

Tamar Greene

Absolutely , please yeah .

Lisa Hopkins

So , on the first point about the stage right , which is super common , I would , I would almost , I would almost want to pose the question to you of , I would almost want to pose the question to you of is it possible that the fear that if you didn't have it , it shows up because it works , it shows up because you go on and you conquer . It's never actually you've never died , right ? You've never . If you want to do fight or flight , you've never gone on stage , even with that voice . I mean , you've gone against that voice and said no , I'm not and you haven't died .

Lisa Hopkins

But it's really interesting because you've had a lot of success and often these old voices that are in our head , I call them gremlins , old voices that that are in our head , you know , I call them gremlins . You know we need , we need to to check in with them , not try to get rid of them . See , we spend a lot of energy trying to get rid of them . I don't want to hear it , I want to fight them , I want to , but but rather repurpose them , if you think of them as energy , our energy , and that they were there once to protect us . So probably , if we were working together , we'd probably figure out when it showed up , but it might've been when you were 10 years old and you were going on stage and they said you know , you better not forget your lines , you're going to embarrass yourself or whatever . So you studied really , really , really hard and it was true that you know it saved you from embarrassment . So so what we can do is we can . We can sort of invite it in now and say listen , I know , thank you and I honor you for helping me .

Lisa Hopkins

This voice really helped me when I was younger and when I was less experienced . But like I'm a Broadway guy now , like I've done this for six years , you know I'm going to be fine . But you know , rather than just firing you , I'm going to recast you in your role in my head and how I could really use you is you know if you could say this , and then you re-script it . You've heard of re-scripting . You just give it something else to say and it will stand down in the old message . It's just old data and it has worked and it's there . It's actually your ally , it's actually trying to help you , but it just doesn't have the updated info . This is where your , your uh , your other degree will come in handy yeah , yeah , exactly , I was like you speak of my language , girl .

Lisa Hopkins

Yes , it's so it needs . You need a reboot . You don't need to get rid of it . You don't need to go . Why do I have that ? You don't need to spend any energy sort of contemplating it , but rather invited in and and and know what it is . So what do you think about that ?

Tamar Greene

I wholly agree with that .

Tamar Greene

I really that really resonated with me because I I do , without putting such , I think , such great words to it , it is , it is what I try to do , I try to tell , even though , what I try to tell people to do and what I try to tell people to do , things that I'm trying to convince myself to do , yeah , you know , um , but it is that like , yeah , it it .

Tamar Greene

It did show up in that way when I was young and it was a like , something I was really embarrassed about , like you know , like it showed up even when I first started auditioning in the city and I thought , you know , I thought I was great , and and then I show up in a room and realize we're in a I'm in a whole different level of ball game , you know , and I wasn't , I wasn't prepared , I thought I was yeah , and I definitely wasn't , and I really embarrassed myself and then , like a casting director or director , whatever , made a comment like yeah , next time , you know , be off book , maybe , or whatever , like , whatever it was , it was , and I was like , walk out with my tail .

Tamar Greene

But you know , like , like , so that is . But that has motivated me to to really really do the work for something I'm passionate about . Yep , really , you know , know the song , know this , know the size . Even if you're not quite you want to try to be off book , but if you're not quite , at least know what you're talking about and glance down , come back up and say your lines . You know , like those guys , it has sharpened me yep , that's what I'm saying it's helped you .

Lisa Hopkins

Yeah , you're right . Yeah , so there could be a fear there that if I get rid of it , I might then not . Do you see the connection ?

Tamar Greene

Yeah , absolutely , yeah , yeah , absolutely . And I and it's , it's that's man , that's so good , uh , and it's it's a little bit different , but I was , uh , tell folks too about , like what , if I'm on , if you're , if you're in a work , right , you're doing , you're doing the work , you're doing the thing . The moment that you like actually get bored is when you mess up and when you screw up and because your brain is not in it . So that voice , that voice has helped me . Stay in it , stay engaged , be a better actor , because I know if I start thinking about what I want for lunch , I'm going to fail and I'm going to embarrass myself and I'm going to start sweating and my heart , my blood pressure is going to go up , all of that . So it is , it's very , it's very similar . I like that .

Lisa Hopkins

Yeah , and you believe I mean you clearly believe that without it that you'd be off your game . I would say to you , I would challenge you and say now , Tamar , in this moment , that it's actually more likely to distract you , because when we are focusing on potential dangers , in that lower energy that you talked about the fight or flight , I call it catabolic energy then what catabolic energy is draws us towards what's painful or stressful or whatever . So your goal then , when you're going on stage , if you go on that way , is to overcome shyness or overcome anxiety or overcome or get through the lines versus being which you're really good at . So it's the trusting that you know , trusting that you know and again , it's great that it's there . It could be a tool , right , it could be a reminder , like you could file it into discernment versus judgment . So it's not so black and white , right and not so binary and just say , listen , I hear you , but I don't need that . What I need right now is like , you know , give me some energy .

Tamar Greene

You know you rock , you know whatever , whatever you wanted to do , so that you can go out there and kill it yeah , I , I really I , I'm gonna , I'm gonna re-listen to this for this moment , I'm gonna , I really am , I , I love it that yeah really good .

Lisa Hopkins

Give it a shot , man , I think it'd be really good . And the the other thing that you mentioned , you , you were talking about how it shows up , um , socially , yes , and you and you use the word should and I call I should , I could , with shame . So when we know that we can do something , right .

Lisa Hopkins

And we're shoulding all over the place . We sometimes do do it , but it's fueled by shame , but it's fueled by shame , and so that's unsustainable . So I'm sure you do , I'm sure you should , you listen to should , and then you push yourself and you do it and blah , blah , blah . But as soon as you lose the shame and realize that you have the capability to do this , then you step into I could do this . And then the question becomes do I want to do this ? And once you're in , I could do this . Then you start going yeah , I could , I could totally do this . And then , and then you move to . You know , I have this whole thing called the choice capacitor . It's funny . I was talking I don't know if you know noah , noah ricketts , but he , um , he said I'm putting this in my dressing room . I could send it to you as well , but it's , it's a choice capacitor , right .

Lisa Hopkins

So ? So yeah , I call it energetic choice . So we go from I can't to I have to , right where you're really pushing through to I should , right , and then to get to the other side of the more conscious choice . Then it you lose the shame , right , and then you're and I could . And then you go to not only can , but I want to . And when you're in , I want to , it starts being connected to your why . Why do I want to ? Because I do what I say I'm going to do , because I care about the producer , because the audience is supporting me , because whatever , whatever your whys are , you start connecting . And then , once you're there , then it's easy to shift to the ultimate , which is I get to , and I get to is choice with gratitude . That's when you're doing it and you know you're doing it .

Lisa Hopkins

And you're doing it and you're grateful for doing it .

Tamar Greene

These guys pencil out . I get to is choice with gratitude . What am I talking about ? It's amazing . You can feel it right . Yeah , I can feel it right . Yeah , that's , I'm definitely going to need that , that .

Lisa Hopkins

Uh , what you said , you said to know you don't need it , you want it and I , I will definitely I will definitely share with you , that's fair .

Tamar Greene

You need it one , okay , okay you don't need anything .

Lisa Hopkins

You don't even need to be acting or singing . I mean you know you don't need anything . You don't even need to be acting or singing . I mean you know you don't need anything . These are things you've chosen that you want to do , yeah , yeah , and within those choices , we have choices about how we do them . That's where the gold is , that's where the golden thread is . Then it doesn't matter what you're doing , because you know what I mean , because you're really connected to yeah that's beautiful , that's profound , that's this is .

Tamar Greene

This is not merely a podcast . I think you're you're not advertising yourself , as this is beyond . What are we talking about ? This is I don't know . This is , this is amazing . This is magic . Thank you , it is a gift . What you have is is definitely a gift . I've done a lot of , I've done a lot of podcasts . I've done a lot of interviews . This is not . This is something else .

Lisa Hopkins

This is , this is special hey , um , what do you know ? Will stay true about you , no matter what happens .

Tamar Greene

I know that I'll always , whatever happens , I'll always lead with my heart . I do . I do feel that is a foundation of me . That I really love about myself is that I I try my best to , you know , always leave lead with love and those intentions of um not harming in my choices . Yeah , um , um , you know , I'm a middle child , middle of 10 , mind you Right , exactly , oh , my God .

Tamar Greene

So , uh , I got to watch a lot of , you know , look up and look down and and see what to do , what not to do , and all that , but also be the um , the mediator .

Lisa Hopkins

Oh , interesting .

Tamar Greene

Yeah , and those experiences , which I think is is made me , you know , definitely made me who I am , part of what made me who I am is being in the middle .

Lisa Hopkins

I'm like .

Tamar Greene

Ooh , yeah , I hear you , sis , but like I think my brother's actually trying to say and oh , no , but sis , but my brother , I think with my sister , which is actually meaning you know . So , so it's , it's , it's why I tick , it's the way , it's the why I am the way I am . I really do . I think it made me more empathetic , for sure , and like that's how I , that's how I like to lead with all my choices , is knowing that you know all these people mean well , everyone . There is no like , there's no villain , there's no one out there . Really , that's like I want to be a bad human . I want .

Lisa Hopkins

I agree with you .

Tamar Greene

I agree with you yeah I agree and so if you have that understanding , it's like all right , listen a little longer . Yeah , you know , and I love you . You know , yeah , and ask another question , you know , like that , that's um yeah , so I always do . I always do whatever , whatever it is I always try to lead with my heart and lead with love can you finish this phrase ?

Lisa Hopkins

most people think tamar green is , but the truth is I think , uh , most things .

Tamar Greene

I think tamar has got it all together right , oh my god , it's like got it all together and very confident in all that you know and I , I think , um , you know which the , which is great . It's a nice thing for people to think you know of it , but I think it is even even the . The con of it is , you know something I felt , even growing up with so many siblings a lot of times people don't check on the person they think is strong , you know . So that's the problem , right , like , and I'm , you know , I'm confident with the things I'm confident in . You know , I'm very ambitious . We talk about all these different things , but I'm also a human who's flawed and is going through stuff and also , you know , and and people don't often . This is why , honestly , why I'm loving this , even conversations , so much because you're diving in on things people don't often dive in and check in yeah yeah I feel that .

Tamar Greene

Thank you for sharing that yeah , yeah , I didn't expect to share that , but yeah , whatever , you're fine , that's fine . Yeah , that's true , yeah , no , absolutely I appreciate that , um , how do you want to be remembered as someone who really truly cared right , who , who . When you think of that person , you smile . You know it left you with something . You know that I left you with something that made you feel you know good in some way yeah , in some way .

Lisa Hopkins

Yeah , yeah , that's how I feel in this moment Mission accomplished . I can really feel your energy . I mean you have a beautiful energy , I mean you make me feel good well , well , thank you likewise . Thank you you don't even need to sing , although I've got to say your voice is like ridiculous .

Tamar Greene

But thank you there we go . There it is .

Lisa Hopkins

I'm shameless .

Tamar Greene

Okay .

Lisa Hopkins

So let me see , we'll do . We do this thing called rapid fire . It doesn't have to be rapid . I'm just going to say what makes you and I'm going to throw out a word , and you've probably heard this before . So what makes you ? Whatever comes to mind , okay . So what makes ? And you , just whatever comes to mind , okay , so what makes you hungry ?

Tamar Greene

um , seeing delicious things I haven't tried yet and that could be . That could be food and otherwise , right , yeah ? There you go and that you're not allergic to , and then I'm not allergic to food . That's good , oh that's good .

Lisa Hopkins

No food Just the environmental stuff , all right . What makes you sad ? Hate ?

Tamar Greene

What inspires you , friends ?

Lisa Hopkins

who I see being successful .

Tamar Greene

What frustrates you Not being ?

Lisa Hopkins

heard .

Tamar Greene

What makes you laugh , my son ?

Lisa Hopkins

Love it . What's your son's name ?

Tamar Greene

Amari , josiah , oh , that's beautiful . Yeah , I'm AJ oh .

Lisa Hopkins

I love it . That's great , I love it .

Tamar Greene

What makes you angry ? Disrespect and finally , what makes you grateful ? Many things uh love life , family , yeah yeah , love it .

Lisa Hopkins

So what are the ? What are the top three things that have happened so far today ?

Tamar Greene

woke up next to a smiling baby . That that's awesome . Um , let's see , I'm generally feeling pretty good today . You know , woke up pretty like lighter than than I have and , um , well , in truth , this is not not be anything like , in truth , this conversation , truly , I mean , I wasn't expecting , wasn't expecting this .

Lisa Hopkins

So , yeah , lovely ditto , and what's something you're looking forward to , both today and then big picture today .

Tamar Greene

I'm looking forward to the moments I'll have with my family , my wife and my son , before I go to work and do the thing . Looking forward to having that time and in the future I am . I am looking forward to having that champagne with you next year . When we're talking about yes , hell yes oh my god , tomorrow .

Lisa Hopkins

I so appreciate you taking the time out of your busy life to be with me in the moment . Today . I really , I really have . I've enjoyed our conversation very , very much yeah , me too , lisa .

Tamar Greene

Really , truly , truly . Thank you for making me think , making me feel and teaching me things about myself .

Lisa Hopkins

Thanks so much . I've been speaking today with Tamara Green . I'm Lisa Hopkins . Thanks so much for listening . Everyone , stay safe and healthy and remember to live in the moment . In music , stop time is that beautiful moment where the band is suspended in rhythmic unison , supporting the soloist to express their individuality In the moment . I encourage you to take that time and create your own rhythm . Until next time . I'm Lisa Hopkins . Thanks for listening .