Creative Possibilities

Lisa Hopkins

Hey there , this one was really special for me . I've had the pleasure over the years of working with Jeffrey Scott Parsons as a dancer and choreographer and now , years later , we got to reconnect in a whole new way on his podcast , the Musical Theater Podcast . We talked about my journey from dance to coaching the creative process and , of course , my book , the Places when there Are Spaces . If you love deep dives into musical theater and the stories behind it , definitely check out Jeffrey's show . He's fantastic . This conversation , though , my friends , was such fun . You'll learn a lot more about me and about Jeffrey . It's a thoughtful conversation and I can't wait for you to hear it . Let's get into it .

Jeffrey Scott Parsons

I recently ordered a book on the old Amazon called the Places when there Are Spaces Cultivating a Life of Creative Possibilities . Now , it's been a while since I've ordered a book like this and I hope we'll get to chat about that a little bit later , but I'm happy I did . It's this book that's made up of , I believe I'm happy I did . It's this book that's made up of , I believe , 59 or so short essays , each of which is followed by a prompt for , you know , journaling or just maybe even meditation . I found the book because its author , lisa Hopkins , is someone who I greatly admire .

Jeffrey Scott Parsons

Lisa was the first true tap choreographer that I ever worked with . Dancing her choreography was the first time I realized , oh , like , tap isn't just a series of steps we memorize and then robotically perform on a stage . She was orchestrating , using rhythm and movement , in a way that , like , could still give the audience what they wanted . You know the audience wants shave and a haircut two bits but it was doing it in a way that was maybe also surprising them . Anyway , through all of that because we did , I believe , like three different productions together I never saw Lisa look stressed once , and that includes , I remember that we were in the carpeted lobby of a theater trying to figure out a rather important tap solo that needed to go into the show that night , and she was just like easy breezy cool as a cucumber . I haven't seen anything like it before or since , but anyway , she worked on one of the revivals of the Follies on Broadway .

Jeffrey Scott Parsons

She's also a life coach and has created this book , and humans like her that seem to understand things that the rest of us can't quite grasp , naturally are exactly the ones I want to talk to . So here for a conversation on life and creativity and this wonderful book , everyone , please welcome Lisa Hopkins . Yay , oh , thank you , lisa welcome .

Lisa Hopkins

I'm so happy to be here .

Jeffrey Scott Parsons

I'm so happy to be here .

Lisa Hopkins

I mean it's I knew when we met . First of all , I mean , you've got something really special besides your talent . I mean , I work with a lot of talented people . Your talent is extraordinary , so I will give you that , thank you . And you are absolutely beautiful too , so I'll give you that as well . But not only did you have the goods , but you're so good , you're such a wonderful human being , and I remember sitting in the lobby of the Colony Theater speaking with you I think it was the first time we worked together on Dames and you were so interested then in what I guess I was kind of cultivating for myself . You were asking me the deeper questions about my why . Basically Now I mean in retrospect as a coach I can really understand what kind of conversation we were having , because it felt a little bit like a mentorship at the moment . But it was deeper than that , as I see it . And you were searching and I've learned in my journey that I've been coaching my whole life , even though I've been dancing my whole life . If you talk to probably anyone that trained with me .

Lisa Hopkins

I remember my students saying things to me there . In fact , there's a passage in the book about the journey is the thing , where one of my students , you know , came up to me and said , oh , I have a gift for you or whatever . And it was this , this which I still . I still have it . This was a long time ago . She said it was at steps , steps , on Broadway , and she said , um , it said the journey is the thing . It was a teacup , it was beautiful . It said , lisa Hopkins , I had a saucer . And I was like , wow , that's , that's really beautiful . And I kind of remember laughing it off going . Do I say that ? Well , you say that all the time and , and obviously it really landed with her , you know .

Lisa Hopkins

I was always talking about , you know , and I and I remember my ego still being I was honored , I mean it was really nice , but I didn't apply it to anything . I was kind of like , yeah , but how about the combination ? Wasn't that really great today , you know what ?

Lisa Hopkins

I mean , I don't know if I was really thinking that , but you know how , when you're in it , you're really in it . But it was again a reminder . And the way we do one thing is the way we do everything . I really believe that and I really learned that and I really embodied that and embrace that . So I guess all that to say is , when we circle back around to our first meeting , what you're doing now and what I saw in you in that first meeting , beyond your talent , the essence of us is what is where we that's why I call it , you know cultivating a life of creative possibilities . I'm not saying you need to be creative . I'm saying that we can . We can live life creatively , um , and that you know it's the art of living , isn't it ?

Jeffrey Scott Parsons

I have so many thoughts I don't even know where to go . But yeah , yes , yes , yes , yes . And because , regardless , if you go into the uh , a creative profession , an artistic profession and let's be honest , please don't I'm not entirely sure anyone should , but but , like what you're saying , is the , the act of living , is creation in a way , right . There is a divine , divine nature to make , to choosing , to making decisions , to learning from our mistakes . Whatever it may be , I don't know , there's something really beautiful and artistic about it . But here's my question you have these two parts of yourself that live in harmony , you know the dance side and the life coaching side , and do you have any perspective on what things you were kind of born with , what aspects of those skill sets you were born with , and which ones did you like , nourish and cultivate ? What do you think ?

Lisa Hopkins

That's a great question . It's interesting because you said skill set . You know I don't believe it's a skill set and I also don't see it as two parts of me , and I'll talk a little bit more about what I mean about that . It's two parts of many parts of me , for sure .

Jeffrey Scott Parsons

Fair enough .

Lisa Hopkins

But it's not a binary . Yeah , I'm the same person , the essence of me , in fair enough , but it's not a binary . Yeah , um , yeah , I'm the same person , the essence of me , in everything I do . That's the practice , right ? And so I did come to this world relatively I'm hesitating to say optimistic , because as a little , as a little girl , I wasn't . I was very cautious and quiet and I never spoke unless spoken to . I was not an A-type . A lot of people mistake me as an A-type person and I think that's because my agency is so strong , who I am is so strong and I've learned , you know , even in my dance style you know , I talk about this in one of the anecdotes , right that I thought it was my strength , and it was a strength for sure , like my , I had very dynamic style of dancing . So when I arrived in new york city , you know I stood out because I was friggin strong and you know . But it was my mentor that said phil black , who's just , you know , god bless him because he's the only one that ever said to me no , too strong you're , it's too strong and taught me about shading and taught me about all the nuance and all the space and all the all of it . Um , I think that you know , with the , with the dance example , you know , I've really translated that to in my work as a , as a coach to understanding cause , I work with very high . I work with high performers , right , I work , and not not necessarily performing artists , although many of them are are creatives , but people who who are playing at a high level in whatever it is they're doing . And so what I sort of teach them , if you want , is is to understand that often , you know , our strength is our biggest weakness , because it overshadows , it becomes our default , because it works Like , yes , it did get me noticed , dancing like that did get me noticed . But if I kept doing that , right , what else am I missing ? And thank goodness again for the wise words of my mentor who said you know , who basically planted the seed , that there's way more than that . And what the hell are you doing ? You know .

Lisa Hopkins

And so when I learned the nuance and the shading of the movement , if you want , then that made my strength even stronger . When I used it , when I applied it in the proper situations rather than defaulting it and doing it in every combination or in every scenario . Right it and doing it in every combination or in every scenario , right . And so you know , by the time you met me , I had evolved that as a style , as a choreographic and dance style , like I really that really spoke to me , but that's the way I am as a person too . Like I started to recognize that whatever I'm doing , I'm strong at doing what I'm doing , not because I'm great , but because I'm all in , so so when people meet me as a mother or as a teacher , or as a coach , or as a dancer , or as a tap dancer or a jazz dancer or a director or or a friend that you know , they , they think of me like that , because our brain naturally files .

Jeffrey Scott Parsons

It needs to file .

Lisa Hopkins

Correct , cause it's easier just to get through your , through your , your world . And it used to bother me , jeffrey , like it used to really bother me . You know when I would get hired in new york to to do jazz , you know , theater , jazz , which is a huge passion , yeah , I remember saying I'll never forget this . Like I remember saying , you know , I also do a little , I tap a little too , like I was kind of joking around and they're like oh , oh , no , no , no , we've got tap people .

Lisa Hopkins

We got our tap people and I remember them naming off the and this maybe isn't going to be on the podcast , but I remember them naming the people you know we have so-and-so and so-and-so and so-and-so , and in my head I'm going I taught all of them Like they're all my students that you're talking about .

Jeffrey Scott Parsons

That's fascinating .

Lisa Hopkins

That you're talking about that you're saying that you have , and I was like that's been an interesting thing for me . It's almost like a reverse imposter syndrome , isn't it ?

Jeffrey Scott Parsons

I mean , you're exactly right , excuse me , I hope that this isn't just about like , now let's make it about me .

Jeffrey Scott Parsons

But I do relate to what you're saying , because I think one of my strengths is patience with discomfort , and that stems I know it stems from being both gay and being religious . I quickly realized well , are they going to find out I'm from Utah first , or are they going to find out I'm gay first ? Because it will completely change how they talk to me or act around me from here on out , and the just kind of waiting on the fence to see how I was being treated , and then I could then give them what they wanted , because I'm a performer and I'm like , all right , so this is who I am to you and and great and let's , let's do that a strength and a skill that I'm not always super proud of , uh , and has been confusing for a great deal of my life but it also made my creative life , my artistic life , my my little safe space right because I could go and be whoever I wanted to be , regardless of what anyone knew about me and how they felt about it and whether or not it was even possible .

Artistic Evolution and Empowerment Through Coaching

Jeffrey Scott Parsons

But it's also why in many ways I started the podcast was because my creative life has taught me so much , not only about myself but about other people , other stories , history , and it was like a conduit for feeling connection with all of that feeling , a part of it .

Lisa Hopkins

Do you find that , in looking at things from like a life coach standpoint , yeah , I mean it's interesting because when I started really thinking about doing it professionally and gaining the skills and so on and so forth , it wasn't because I wanted to leave my life in the arts . In fact , I was deeply in it in New York when I just I started thinking about honestly it came from a place of wanting to help younger people , a lot of younger people . So there's two things I'd love to share with you . One is you asked me first I'll finish before I go off on a tangent which is during that time I was very cognizant and my daughter was about their age too , right . So what happened was I started to notice her and the kids in front of me had so much potential . Like we're living in a world you know , this is pre-pandemic too right Just living in a world of absolute potential . But the communication skills in that , because of the internet and all of that , they were really stuck . They were really struggling . I could really feel it . But I could also really see their potential , which is what coaches do . They see the potential in you and I thought I'm going to produce because I'm a producer . So I'm going to produce an event and it's going to be an empowerment event for mothers and daughters . And I knew exactly what I was going to do and who it was going to be , and my , my friends and most of them in the industry , but not all , but really high , high performing women , you know , and I'm going to have them come , and so on and so forth , and and and then I had this ping of like and I was like I'll do , you know , I've got stuff I can do with them . I know , you know , I know what I could , like I could do with them and bring out in them .

Lisa Hopkins

And then I was like I should get trained , like trained as , like you know . It was just like this ping moment and so that's what I went in doing there . There had been something floating around me for many years and for many years my daughter had said you should be a coach . She knew way more about all that than I did , but I had a very good friend who also had been a coach for many years , so she had done all the vetting . So I knew that this was the right place , if I ever did it .

Lisa Hopkins

So I checked it out . There was something in New York and then I kind of went all in like I do , but I was still doing everything and it took years . I mean , the actual training was a solid year and a half , intensive , you know , it wasn't one of these three , three over . It was like doing a master's really , you know , but it was . But it was incredible and so I went in thinking that I was going to help those people . I remember my cohort saying to me oh my God , you're in the arts , you could leverage your community and blah , blah , blah , and I was like , oh no , like , no way , like , which was silly in a way , because you know , it's just the I was triggered by the leverage where , like I , to me that sounds awful , so so so I kind of I really withheld .

Lisa Hopkins

I mean , I did have people finding me anyways , but I kind of withheld . I didn't go into my class and you know , or I was standing in or in front of the cast of the thing that I was choreographing and going , by the way , you know none of it . So I myself was putting myself in those silos , the ones that that , the very ones that I told you that people did with me . So I was living that . I was like no , I'm the director of this show . Meanwhile , on my breaks in tech , I was coaching somebody like on the phone , duh , but anyways . So this guy .

Lisa Hopkins

But when the pandemic hit and I was isolating and I was teaching remotely , I was like this is so crazy , like I could really help all these people in my community . They're all put on , a whole Broadway is shut down , like , and then I just I had all put on , a whole Broadway is shut down , like and . And then I just I had no idea . That's how the podcast started . I had no idea . I had never said , oh , I'm a coach , I should have a podcast , or oh , I want to have a podcast . I didn't even listen to podcasts and I was sitting way up in mountains and I called my first . I called my first three guests for my students . They were all on Broadway . They're all 20 years old . One was in Jagged . She'd never gone on yet she got cast and it was going to be her Broadway debut . One was already in Dear Abin Hansen , but he was understudying all the boys , all the leads and had never been gone on yet .

Lisa Hopkins

So he'd been in the show for a while but never been called to go on to cover Gosh the show for a while but never been called to go on to cover the anticipation . And then the third one was um in doubtfire and she was on elise . Um , she , she was a well-known child actor , she was in a lot of stuff so she was really experienced and she was playing having her first . You know she was playing lydia , is it lydia ? I think it was lydia um the first kind of adult yeah , and it shut down after the first preview .

Lisa Hopkins

So they're all my students and so so . So I said I'm going to get on the phone , I'm going to call them and I'm just going to say do you want to have a conversation ? I can hold space for you . How are you doing ? I don't know if you know this about me , and that's where that was born and it was organic and where I could really go . No , I'm truly interested in this energetic space and I , no , I'm truly interested in this energetic space and I'm not your mentor , I'm not your teacher , I'm not your director , I'm not your friend . You know , I'm just holding space for you , like like a coach does . And then you know , here we are , like four years later , five years later , you know , it's the love of my life and I speak to wonderful , creative people that I don't know , um , from all over the . You know all over the world , and so for me , that's a long-winded answer to your question of the sort of bringing together your world .

Jeffrey Scott Parsons

Because for me it had to be organic .

Lisa Hopkins

the intersection and the book is the same thing . During the pandemic I started doing these solo episodes on the podcast because my daughter once again said to me I was fooling around , you know , with with microphone and I was , I was writing some stuff and I , I think I found some old thing that I wrote and I just recorded it for the hell of it and , um , she said I would listen to that .

Lisa Hopkins

that short form you know , I don't really listen to long form and I said oh really she goes . Yeah , just throw it up in your podcast . And oh my god , really , so I could have easily . Yeah , I could have eaten . It's still probably even more popular than my very famous guests wow and it's really .

Lisa Hopkins

It's really funny because , again , you know I was trying to separate . Well , that should it be a separate podcast , like you know . Like you know what I mean . You start to go what are people going to think ? I'm like it needs to and I was like no , it's the same thing . It's holding space , in this case holding space from them , but I took a lot of them and reworked them and so on , and that's what's in the book , along with some older writing . So you just don't know what's in front of you , right ? And so for me , it is all about integration .

Jeffrey Scott Parsons

You said that right at the beginning , that we bring . How did you say we bring our same self to every situation ?

Lisa Hopkins

Yeah , I mean the essence of us . It doesn't matter what we're doing .

Jeffrey Scott Parsons

Absolutely .

Jeffrey Scott Parsons

I've been a fan of these . I don't know , I have a natural propensity to the work of Brene Brown or Adam Grant or Malcolm Gladwell , like I . There was a time where I was just like reading ferociously any of anything that they had and right at the end of the pandemic I got a little . I don't want to say jaded , but maybe j'm just slowly . I'm just now coming out of it and your book has been a great place to meet me . Because these little essays are short . It takes maybe a couple minutes to read one a day . It takes another couple minutes to think about the wonderful questions that you then ask as the prompts . That's all to say that that's my experience . Do you ever feel that sort of inauthenticity , kind of , around this type of work ?

Lisa Hopkins

Why don't I read this ?

Jeffrey Scott Parsons

Please .

Lisa Hopkins

Because I know you wanted me to read something .

Jeffrey Scott Parsons

Yes , yeah , 100% .

Lisa Hopkins

And then we can talk more about it . So there has been an entire industry developed around flow . The word that once described a quality of movement has become a movement . In a stressed-out world , desperate to find meaning and life purpose , A raison d'être world desperate to find meaning and life purpose , a raison d'être . We are inundated daily by reminders of how great flow is . Our literal and metaphorical inboxes are overflowing with the latest directions on how to get there , and although I think it would be fair to say that most of us consider flow to be a desirable state in which to reside , if you have ever felt frustrated or overwhelmed in your quest to find or arrive at flow , you are most definitely not alone . Despite what the billion-dollar mindfulness industry promises , flow is not a destination . No mantra , mindfulness program or affirmation will get you there , and there certainly is no one-size-fits-all for every occasion . This is your invitation , your permission to ease up and take the pressure off of flow .

Lisa Hopkins

Imagine for a moment that you are a garden hose and your garden is your world , everything you've created and experienced up until now . It is composed of the things that you put energy into and grow and nurture , as well as the things that you try to keep alive , even though perhaps they've had their season . Some things in your garden flourish with little oversight needed , like perennials with strong roots that brave through even the harshest of seasons . Others require more special care and attention . Some things will even cross-pollinate and grow new into new things without you ever even knowing .

Lisa Hopkins

In this analogy , water is your energy , your flow . The nozzle is your mind , which controls all your settings or filters the thoughts and associated emotions that direct your energy responses and choices . Flow is limitless and all intensities serve us depending on the context . Like the garden hose , we can adjust the flow and reduce or intensify the pressure depending on what we want or need , or intensify the pressure depending on what we want or need . There is no one setting for all the things that you grow in your garden , and what might require more pressure in certain climates may need less in others . The key is to know that it is you that has the power to control the different settings .

Lisa Hopkins

Kinks in the hose show up in our lives as limiting beliefs , assumptions , interpretations and fear , and threaten to reduce our potential to access our natural flow and drain our energy . But remember , we are the hose and , just as we create our garden , it is only us that constricts our flow . There will be times when you feel like you need to protect what you are growing in your garden from pests or saboteurs by building fences . There will also be instances when you opt to remove the barriers and expand the garden , and there will be times when you experience a dry spell and , no matter how much you try , you can't find your flow , and that's perfectly okay . Just because you aren't flowing does not mean you are not growing . Like water , our flow is our own renewable resource . It can be used inward for personal growth and outward for whatever it is we want to create or grow .

Jeffrey Scott Parsons

I love that you've played with flow and pressure . I think of like being in the shower and like what kind of pressure do you want in the shower ? Right , but if there was a flow problem , like that's something completely different , that's like a plumbing issue , but in terms of the pressure , like that's the nozzle . I love my shower head . It has like four different ones and you can get like the massager going right , like whatever you want . How often are we fixating , maybe , on a flow issue when maybe we're actually fixating on a pressure issue ? You know .

Lisa Hopkins

That's interesting , yeah , issue . You know that's interesting , yeah , and I think the the cool thing about this is like I mean , I wrote it but as I'm reading it I'm thinking again going what I was discovering was that we a it's okay to not be in the flow all the time , like in the , the , the , you know stereotypical flow , yeah , that this is some sort of achievable state . I mean , we all , we are all in the flow all the time . Just think about some . You know one time that you recently that you were doing something that you got completely absorbed in and and sort of lost sense of time . I mean that's flow . But but to think of flow as something like you know that that you need or want or whatever , and that you don't have I don't know , or that you have to make happen Exactly .

Lisa Hopkins

Exactly , and you know the kinks in the hose right are . You know which happens . You know in a garden hose right where it constricts the flow and you know using that as the metaphor for well , you know the negative thoughts or the limiting beliefs and all those things . That's what constricts our flow of being , if you want .

Jeffrey Scott Parsons

Right . So then my follow up yeah , absolutely . So then my follow up question to that is we can only , we can only be responsible for ourselves . Ultimately , yeah , and our and we get to be not , we can only be .

Lisa Hopkins

It's not a scarcity thing , it's . It's a powerful thing .

Jeffrey Scott Parsons

Fair enough , Absolutely , you know . Yeah , I mean literally right . Yeah , musical theater that I find to be one of the most collaborative art forms you can be a part of . How does that fit into our flow ? How ?

Lisa Hopkins

do other people become part of our garden ? Well , that's really interesting because your flow is a solo thing right , exactly .

Lisa Hopkins

But you're talking about rising to the collaborative flow , which is which I'm super interested in . And in fact , I have a client who recently was talking to me about you know he's starring in ragtime actually and um , I know one of my favorite shows and we were talking about . You know it's his favorite show in the world , his you know his favorite role . He's getting this great opportunity to do it and you know he's being irritated by these kinks in his flow . He's positioning the kinks in the flow as these external and they are external things right , like the fact that they won't get him the right headset , you know , even though he asked for it and he knew that that would help him contribute to the bigger part of the project .

Lisa Hopkins

And what he sort of recognized was that he wants to be the best he can be in the role , like we all do , but we also all want the show to be the best it can be . And if we stick in , that low level energy of you're getting in my way , jeffrey , because you know you're not doing it the way that I know you should then it's judgment that's getting in the way of my flow , because I'm spending my energy judging you , as opposed to rising above and thinking you know , what are my resources here ? That's where you actually get . You live in the real world , right , like the outer world where you say what are my resources ? How is this serving me , how is this serving the project ? And then you don't get into the water cooler I call it water cooler , but you know where , where you're just kind of like . Then you go over to the , you know , to your castmate and go I can't believe Jeffrey's such a you know and then you use this low energy , right . How is that helping ? It makes you feel better in the moment , but it's not actually helping your flow , nor the flow of the collaborative flow that we're talking about , and so we are responsible to the bigger picture to not to be quiet , right , I'm not saying like shut up about it , but to not make everything so binary . It's got to be like this or it's not going to work my way , or the highway that you know that sort of in my work , level two energy , which is more catabolic energy , right ?

Lisa Hopkins

So in the case of this client of mine , he recognized that he could actually call the stage manager of his show back in New York and get the headset that he usually uses , and so on and so forth , you know , because he could do that . So he got into a place where he could think about his resources instead of just sticking in that low thing and going as it slid off his face . You know , halfway through the performance . See what I mean . I told you so , like , is that really going to help , right ? Do you see what I'm saying ? So it becomes , when we talk about coaching as being solution focused , it doesn't mean that , like I have the answers , the client has the answers . Right , I know that . But it's about keeping open to realizing there are always different ways of approaching things , right , and to seeing things differently . Does that make sense ? Does that ?

Jeffrey Scott Parsons

answer your flow question . No , that's so great , the idea of resources being a higher energy than I need to meditate on this and write about it . This is cool .

Lisa Hopkins

Yeah .

Jeffrey Scott Parsons

Yeah , I'm so excited that I get to edit this episode because I'll be able to listen back and think about all of this . I love working with professionals because I know they have resources , and sometimes , when I'm working with people either either less experienced or in in a situation that is maybe underfunded and , let's be honest , most non-profits are , you end up you end up overtaxing your own resources to the point of developing , sometimes control issues and burnout at the same time , right .

Jeffrey Scott Parsons

Oh yeah , yep , coming out of the pandemic and finding our audiences and engaging . And how can we find that collaborative flow without necessarily being burnout or having to do everything ourselves ?

Lisa Hopkins

yeah , and and it's not about doing everything yourself , right , that that was to to be clear . I think it's to understand the landscape and then to understand your why . You know why , why you're doing it , what your non-negotiables are , um , and being clear with that . But that's what coaching is like . It's about . That's when we talk about mindset . It's not about reframing . If you came into me and said , Lisa , this is really bothering me , and I said to you well , why don't you just reframe it ? Everything will be fine . Yeah , exactly .

Jeffrey Scott Parsons

You know what I mean ? I mean well , why don't you just reframe it Everything ?

Lisa Hopkins

will be fine . Yeah , exactly , you know what I mean . I mean . Yes , ultimately , it is about looking at things differently , but it doesn't happen just by putting a mantra on your frigging desk or , you know , manifesting a house that you are . You know what I mean it's . You can have the , you can have your house on the wall . There's nothing wrong with that , but that's not the thing that's going to get it's the thing that's going to maybe remind you and energize you ? Yeah , and I think that's another answer to your question about the industry .

Jeffrey Scott Parsons

Yeah , yeah , 100% Um cause .

Personal Growth Through Story Reflection

Lisa Hopkins

You know , coaching is a tool .

Lisa Hopkins

It's a tool and you know , the , the biggest , most important thing , and maybe for you too , like , like , or for you , for anyone listening to , when you're looking for that flow or that collaborative flow , you know , if you're working on a show or whatever , is like , not , is the , is the not being attached piece , because when we get attached to what we think is supposed to be , can you imagine like 30 people all being attached to and a lot of it's going to be my performance or you know , my next gig , or the Asian in the thing or whatever ?

Lisa Hopkins

But if we can all just just let go of attachment and just just control what we control , which is being the best that we can be , and then finding the resources to do that , I always say this to people who are auditioning it's like you have to do your work , you have to honestly do your work and know that you put your absolute , all of your feet forward and and your goal becomes I'm going to give them . You know , be the best that I can be for this . I'm going to do my research , I'm going to , you know , do the whole thing . I'm going to get a good night's sleep , like those are all the practical things , and then I'm going to show up and then let the rest just happen , because you can't control that .

Jeffrey Scott Parsons

Yeah .

Lisa Hopkins

But what happens is people get disappointed . Oh , I was so good and still I'm not good enough . Well , that's , that's a limiting belief . You just weren't right for the show .

Jeffrey Scott Parsons

It's not , it's not personal . Ooh , you know it's so . When you , when you were talking about the book which I'm now holding being a tool it's something that I wrote down before coming and talking to you is , I think it's instead of a toolbox , it's a tool book . And I find , when it's like , okay , it's time to go to the tool book and do a little bit of work , you know , and it's enjoyable , and it doesn't seem insurmountable , these little essays , you know , sometimes you get into a book at least for me and I'm like ooh , this chapter's a long one . I don't know if I'm going to be able to get through it . It's not intimidating . How about that ? It's work that doesn't feel as intimidating .

Lisa Hopkins

You know what's so cool ? Well , and it's funny because you call it a toolbook and if someone isn't looking at it or hasn't read it , like I love that you said that . But it's really interesting because it's the antithesis of I didn't want it to be like a workbook .

Jeffrey Scott Parsons

Sure , like , these are just essence , this could just be a book with no prompts and you just read it . Sure , these are just essays and it doesn't feel that way .

Lisa Hopkins

This could just be a book with no prompts and you just read it . No , no , but I love that you do find . I do love that you are using it as a tool Like that's so cool to me , and you're not the first person to say that . I wanted to share the writings and the reflections and allow a place for reflection . That's all that I put forth .

Jeffrey Scott Parsons

Reflection is the right word .

Lisa Hopkins

And I'm finding that people are like , yeah , so so people that are doing it like you're , you're going to find a simple one line prompt at the end of a story , basically . But we learn , we learn through stories and we relate through stories and people are telling me so many different things like , ooh , the one about the arms , you know , floating up . I started to cry when I read that and it's like it wasn't like some big lesson . I didn't sit down to write lessons . They were not . These are real time , me looking at me learning lessons and then sharing them with you and saying what do you learn from this ? As opposed to me teaching a lesson like I will write a book , like that . I do have some IP where you know what I mean , where I can actually give you , you know , like a workbook and a toolbook and stuff like that I can do that easily .

Lisa Hopkins

But that's not what this is . But I do love that . People are like no , like I thought I was buying it just because you know especially people that know me at all are saying like you know , because I wanted to support you or whatever . But I realized I was really buying it for myself . I don't know . I think there's something about the essence of something like this and like theater and the reader being the final audience member , and then the reader then becomes part of the thing , because then the reader can pick it up again and then something new can cultivate from that . So even just by reading it , you're like cultivating creative possibilities , which is crazy , like I never really thought about it , you know .

Jeffrey Scott Parsons

No , that's so beautiful . And you talking about story , I'm like no wonder . This is the thing that speaks to me , because look at what this whole podcast and my passion is . It's about going into our stories that are part of the musical theater canon and recognizing that they play a huge part in not only culture but in helping us realize things about what it means to be human and alive . So the idea that this tool book is just filled with stories , it makes perfect sense . It makes perfect sense for little old Jeffrey .

Jeffrey Scott Parsons

Yeah , yeah , I am so grateful , thank you , for I feel good now . I'm so . I feel like you need to send me a bill for being on my podcast . I'm so sorry that I just made you do a session for free , but truly , everybody out there , the places where there are spaces , but like this is what the show is about . Right , this is what the community , the podcast community , is about is not only sharing in in what we have in common through the arts , but what we have in common as humans , and and I think that these types of conversations and and the stories that you're sharing in the book are are reminders of that . So , thank you , thank you , miss Lisa Hopkins .

Lisa Hopkins

Oh my gosh . In music , stop time is that beautiful moment where the band is suspended in rhythmic unison , supporting the soloist to express their individuality In the moment . I encourage you to take that time and create your own rhythm . Until next time , I'm Lisa Hopkins . Thanks for listening .