Steven Sander: Taking the Time to Listen

My next guest is the Emmy award winning editor Steven Sander, a gifted story teller whose projects elevate empower and inspire.  In our conversation we explore the importance of listening and paying attention to the world around us.

"If you're not paying attention to things, I don't think you're really contributing."

 His most recent project "My Beautiful Stutter"   is an important film that captures the transformation of a group of young stutterers who after enduring a lifetime of shame and fear learn that for the first time that it's okay to stutter.

“WE ARE ALL HUMAN BEINGS WHO WANT TO BE HEARD, AND THAT MEANS LETTING EVERYONE HAVE AS MUCH TIME AS THEY NEED TO SPEAK…”

TARO ALEXANDER, Founder, the Stuttering Association for the Young (SAY)

Steven Sander is an Emmy Award-winning editor (2016 Outstanding Long Sports Documentary) who has been cutting feature drama and documentary projects since 2008. His films have screened theatrically, on major television networks (NBC, ESPN, BBC and Channel 4) and at film festivals around the world. His debut feature as an editor, New Town Killers, received three BAFTA Scotland Nominations (Best Film, Best Director, Best Actor) after premiering at the BFI London Film Festival.  His most recent feature documentary, My Beautiful Stutter, has won several festival awards and premiers in 2021 as a Discovery+ Original. Steven also directs, and has won awards for his commercials and short documentaries.  He currently combines his work as an editor with commercials directing.

www.twoswimmers.co.uk
https://www.mybeautifulstutter.com/
https://www.say.org/

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Transcript

Lisa Hopkins: 0:23

This is the stop time podcast. I'm your host, Lisa Hopkins, and I'm here to engage you in thought provoking motivational conversations around practicing the art of living in the moment. I'm a certified life coach, and I'm excited to dig deep and offer insights into embracing who we are and where we are at. So my guest today is an Emmy Award winning editor who has been cutting feature drama and documentary projects since 2008. His films have screened theatrically on major television networks, and BC he has ESPN BBC and Channel Four and at film festivals around the world. His debut feature as an editor Newtown killers received three BAFTA Scotland nominations for Best Film Best Director and Best Actor. After premiering at the BFA London Film Festival. His most recent feature documentary, my beautiful stutter, has won several festival awards and premieres in 2021 as a discovery plus original. Steven also directs and has won awards for his commercials and short documentaries. And he currently combines his work as an editor with commercials directing. Welcome, Steven. Thanks so much for joining me today on stop time.

Steven Sander: 1:43

Good to be here. Good to be talking to somebody.

Lisa Hopkins: 1:45

Right. So where are you spending most of your time these days? Where are you calling in from? Well, I'm,

Steven Sander: 1:50

I'm hiding in Australia at the moment. So I kind of divide my time I'm normally based in in England, but I've worked all around the world depending on on projects, but my wife's Australian. And we spent a lot of time in Australia. And we were meant to be in the UK right now. But I saw what was happening in the world. And we've wanted to spend a big chunk of this time before my daughter started school in Australia. And so we basically turned turn around, got on a plane managed to get a flight and got back to Australia. And we haven't been able to get back since. But luckily for me, although work has changed. I have had a long project that I'm working on that's kind of kept me busy. But yeah, it's it's a good place to be right now. It's been a long time when we left in March, I didn't think I'll be away for a year. It's it's a bit crazy. But yeah, there's just no rhyme or reason to it back if I don't have to. And luckily, at the moment, I don't have to

Lisa Hopkins: 2:53

know. Absolutely. You know, right off the bat, I just wanted to point out that the bio that you gave me, doesn't include anything about you being a writer. And I'm hoping that this was an oversight because we're where you are, where you're not credited as the writer on "My Beautiful Stutter?

Steven Sander: 3:09

is an interesting kind of conundrum when it comes to documentary. And it's a kind of a debate really as to how much writing goes on in the Edit. And especially when it comes to documentary and I i've been quite lucky in the projects I've worked on that I've been given a lot of I say freedom to take the material and explore the story. And so I end up certainly in a documentary context, writing the film's creating the story. And you know, I do love that aspect of it. And having had a directing background, and having this strange kind of career path of starting directing, and then moving into post. And a finding that although I love directing the post production side is where my heart was, you really discover the story and you work with music you you work with, with pacing, you work with every kind of element that you can, you know, from the documentary, The directing was very much about gathering the raw material, you know, getting the right stuff, but not really knowing what you have until you get in the edit and that it was the most fun part and, and the directors that I've been working with be very happy for me to take a writing role. And when it came to my most recent film, you know, it's a kind of a sole role in that. Still a collaboration but very much. Yeah, me taking taking the onus on myself to to produce the film, you know, and then just work at the kind of the back end on refining that story.

Lisa Hopkins: 4:41

Yeah, no, I love that one of the taglines used to promote the film is a quote, I think from the founder of say, the stuttering Association for the young. And it just really struck me, I think it's brilliant. We are all human beings who want to be heard. And that means letting everyone have as much time as they need to speak. I mean, absolutely beautiful. I you know, I truly believe that work like this needs to be celebrated and elevated. I'd be honored if you would take a moment just to share a little bit more. I know this isn't a you know, I always say this isn't really just about what people do. But I think it's so important. I do and it's kind of what brought me to you. So I'm just gonna go with that instinct. If you can tell me just a little bit more about this remarkable film and how you came to telling this story.

Steven Sander: 5:29

Well, this was initiated for a company I've been working with called believe limited, based in Los Angeles and the director of the one of the cofounders of believe Ryan geelen. He was approached about the story, he met Michael old and Broadway producer. And he was actively involved with se, which is the stuttering association of the young based in New York. And he thought there was a really important story to be told with this organization and the good that it does, in using the arts to empower kids that stutter, to gain confidence and to not worry about the stutter, but to become confident and happy with themselves first and foremost. And he invited Ryan to see if there was a story there and to see if there was a film that that he could make. And, and that was the beginning of that. Having had a working relationship with Ryan, a production company, I believe, yeah, Ryan brought me on board, after he'd done an initial series, a piece of filming. And he'd spent about one year with the society and and say, invite kids to do workshops, to perform plays to write and perform. And also have a summer camp, based in Carolina, where kids from all over the US can come and join in. And Ryan spent the summer there filming the kids. And so a large part of the documentary is the camp camp se. And so Ryan came up with all this raw material, and he gave the footage to me and, you know, I kind of took it upon myself to explore that footage and find the story, and how do we tell the story of these kids in a compelling entertaining way and get across, you know, to educate the audience as to what it's like to have a stutter and, and what it is like to be a stutterer. In a world where, you know, for a lot of people, you know, people have preconceived notions of what stuttering is, and why you stutter. And also that stuttering is something that that needs to be avoided. And something that you can get over. And these were kind of preconceptions that we wanted to remove from people's consciousness and to look at stuttering in a different way. And going back to the quote that you you mentioned, the big thing that came out of it is we're so used to today's world of expecting things now and instantly and, and wanting instant responses and not having the patience anymore for things. life's going along at 100 miles an hour. And we're so used to completing other people's sentences, if people stutter, we think that they need help, or they're nervous. And we don't give them time. And if you don't give someone time, you're not going to hear what they have to say, and you're gonna miss out on something quite profound, probably. And you're not going to learn something. And just it's kind of take a step back, you know, breathe, listen, kind of opens your mind to, you know, more possibilities.

Lisa Hopkins: 8:35

So support seems to be a theme in your work. Would you say that's true?

Steven Sander: 8:39

I think so certainly the documentaries. And there's a big difference between those commercials, commercials, the drama, and documentaries, but I'm really attracted to films that explore the human condition and address what it means to be human, how individuals work out their position in the world, and how they go on these journeys, where they learn a lot about themselves and ultimately, through empowering themselves and being being proactive end up changing other people's lives and changing the world. And that's, that is incredible, because it just shows that everyone goes on very similar journeys, but we also can influence things. And I think that's important to know, because a lot of the time we're thinking, do I matter? And I think the stories that I've been trying to tell show that people do matter, and we can achieve great things even by just doing the small things. And I love those I love the stories that explore that. And I'm just moving audiences I think there's nothing more moving than seeing someone evolve and change and affect someone there's nothing more profound than watching a true story. And they can be outrageous stories, you know, things that that you would never do in a fiction film because they wouldn't be believable but because they happen in a in a documentary. They are so much more unexpected and so much more moving.

Lisa Hopkins: 10:13

They sort of present themselves don't know you don't necessarily know what you're gonna get. You go in expecting one thing and you never know. It's kind of exciting. It's a journey itself isn't it?

Steven Sander: 10:23

Absolutely, it's interesting for me from an editing point of view and writing point of view, I mean, you do start to identify films that, that do surprise you. And yet, because it's a real story, you can't help but be moved each time. Whereas I think if I watch your fiction film, and it has, you know, it's hitting all the beats, and you're seeing that, you know, this is, there's going to be a twist here, or it's going to change here, that you become a bit numb to it, because you're aware of the artifice of the film. There's just something deeply compelling about our true story. And it's certainly something I'm very passionate about ever since. Ever since, you know, I started University re.

Lisa Hopkins: 11:05

Yeah, what do you suppose that is? Like, why do you think that's important to you to tell, to tell stories,

Steven Sander: 11:10

I think it's, I mean, there's, there's no reason to tell a story, unless you're going to share it with somebody, I think it's like human connection, you want film to get out into the world, there's something comforting and to share it with someone and see the moved by it, and to understand what you were getting at. So that sense, the sense of fulfillment is when you make something and they, they pull out of it, things that you wanted them to pull out of it, and moved in the right places. And just the process of doing it as well is like any piece of art, you know, or any piece of music. And that's why I like the editing side of it is because you know, you are creating a symphony, you're creating a painting, and when it works, and it clicks and the rhythms are there, and you're feeding the, the, you know, the uplift in the right places, and you're feeling the weight of the the emotion in other places, that's incredibly visceral. And that's incredibly kind of elemental. And that's a kind of pretty powerful, profound feeling. And you're just trying to get to that place where everything's kind of clicking in it. And, and the ultimate goal was that everything feels like it's in the right place. And then you know, you've, you've got something good, it just seems like it always should have been that way.

Lisa Hopkins: 12:20

Yeah. Was there a moment where you kind of knew this is what you wanted to do that you wanted to tell stories? Was there sort of a turning point for you where, you know, a visceral moment where you're like, Yeah,

Steven Sander: 12:31

I know how old I was. But I know the actual moment. Yeah, would have been about 1314. Just watching films, watching what I think watching films and getting excited by them, and and then finding out that now there's something that's created, and that people are there creating them. I think the moment where you think, well, that's something that maybe I could do, and just having a thirst for knowledge as well. I mean, I studied history, university history is all about people's stories. Yeah. And, you know, I love that side of it. And I had all these VHS tapes. Now, did I ever go back and watch those fields? Probably not. But it was something there was, there was something nice to say that there they are, they're there. And I'm constantly looking at these like books on a shelf. Yeah, just taking in the names of the people and and the films that are there and developing this kind of film knowledge. And in thinking that this is something that I want to maybe do after university, just try and make it in, in the film industry. And everyone was telling me don't study film. Because if you study film, do it because you're passionate about it. But don't do it thinking that it's going to lead to a career because there's no substitute for the work. And you learn the most important things during the process of making films. But for me, a couple of years in the industry was just as valuable as a couple of years of film school.

Lisa Hopkins: 13:55

It sounds like you have a very pragmatic side on what really said, I asked you when when did you get this this sort of aha moment? And you said, Well, I don't remember the moment, but I remember how old I was. You put it into a non visceral place, but rather a headspace, you know, and I think that's really interesting. Yeah,

Steven Sander: 14:13

yeah, the pragmatic, I think the pragmatic, I think probably is very very. True. Yeah, just do you think luck is a big part of it as well. But I suppose that kind of says a lot about my kind of journey where things have been lucky in terms of their things that I haven't planned. I've just kind of followed that path. So I was given, an opportunity has opened up and I've gone down that Avenue, and I've kind of kept going down there. What I haven't been doing, as I haven't been saying, other than wanting to be a film director and working feature films, I kind of haven't had a very narrow conception of what that means. I've kind of just explored avenues and taken opportunities. And while we're while the rest of life is kind of happening around that, because, you know, your work isn't in a microcosm, you know, you live a life as well. Yeah, what my work has also done is it's allowed me to have this very fluid life where I know I can be in different countries, I can take my work different places, I can take weeks off, or account works and days a week. And that's been very good to me. I never had, you know, a nine to five job. Ever thought for maybe the first year or two years working as a runner? But yeah, it's the pragmatism, I think there's a side of me I'm kind of very artsy person that loves being creative. And yet there's this pragmatic where I just need I need I need that thing. I need that sense of structure.

Lisa Hopkins: 15:44

Yeah. And these kinds of external things - like pandemics. And these these massive life changes, really, you know, shine the light on on reflection and all that if you're open to it, which you are, because that's your artist side. And because you have to be because you aren't working nine to five, you know, just I found on Vimeo you had posted I know that. I know. It's a very old film of yours. But you had done the two swimmers right?

Steven Sander: 16:06

. Yeah, yeah.

Lisa Hopkins: 16:07

And so I thought, Oh, my God, this is fun. And it's not that long. And I was having lunch, and I thought, well, just watch it, this will be this will be wonderful, you know, fantastic. And so Congrats. I loved it. So it actually blew me away. Because I was I was watching and so this fits so beautifully, you know, into sort of the idea of, you know, the coach and the support and the different, you know, dangling the carrot, you know, like, just, it's just kind of an interesting thing. And then you Sidewinded me with, like a what?!! at the end. I mean, you know, spoiler alert, I, I was like, well, there it is, there it is, and without telling anyone except that they should watch it. And I'll put it in the show notes. But when Mark Brickhouse is heard remarking that time is irrelevant, and that getting from one side to the other is the important thing. Really, it's a metaphor for life's journey, isn't it? I mean, yeah, talk to me about your long game versus, you know, in in a creative career, there are obvious, quote, unquote, goals, bullet points on our resume, things to study, you know, and he's to win. But tell me about, you know, how that factors in versus, you know, how you see yourself in your long game.

Steven Sander: 17:19

I mean, the short term, the short term, goals are always, what's the next project? Who do I want to work with, what the type of film is, what genre in order to, you know, keep things fresh in order to kind of keep being challenged. And then within those projects, you know, once you get into a project, you know, it does become all consuming. And your goal is to make the best possible film, you know, to use that footage in the best way you can. And to do justice to that footage, there's obviously a set time frame for that. And when you get to the end of that film, feeling that I can't, you know, I can't go through that again, anytime soon. But you have selective amnesia. And, you know, as soon as you hear about another project, that excitement starts again, you know, and, and you want to keep working, because that's, it's your passion. And you have so much fun in trying to craft a new story. And so you you're looking for a project after project after project, the longer goals are, can those projects, you know, reach bigger audiences? Can they move people in a more profound ways? Or can they, you know, educate people on on a topic that you feel passionate about, and that you feel needs to be out into the world that people need to be educated on a particular subject, or just made aware of something. And I think that becomes a goal, longer than that. You're developing relationships with people. And I think it's such a nice feeling to have collaborators, that, that understand you, you understand them, and you develop a shorthand, and you're going on a journey together. And that, that part of the journey is, is exciting. And the longer term goal from that is to Yeah, to produce a body of work that you're proud of, and to put yourself in a position where, you know, you can have a choice of projects, I think, and you can decide what you want to do, and gives you some kind of financial security as well. I think I would certainly you know, there's there's a pragmatic pragmatism around, getting work that gives you the ability to take your time and to have more time with family. So, you know, you're, you're, you're earning enough to be able to have that time away because when you're working on a project, it does become all consuming, you do want to spend a lot of time with it. And I think one of the things that that is a challenge in the short term is how you do manage that time. I think a lot of time with with editing I think goes for any creative kind of industry is is the downtime is just as important as the time you're working on something the time to be able to think the time to step back. You're working on something and you're hitting roadblocks and you are really struggling with problems. You know, to come at it fresh the next day or to come in at fresh after a walk around the block or something suddenly opens all these new doors. And then it's also not to beat yourself up as well if you if you aren't working, because to have that time, it's so important. Yeah, to step away so important. Yeah, I've had long term goals is to get to work on things that I mean normally would. With more money, there's no any more pressure and more tight deadlines. But ideally, you'd have more money to work on something that you'd have longer to have a long way to do it. And it will become a better product because of that. And I think that's probably the the irony I suppose of, of filmmaking, that the projects you have the most time to do the ones that you get paid very little to do. And you probably turn out better because of that.

Lisa Hopkins: 21:15

It's so interesting, ya know, for sure, and it's, you know, I often ask my guests, you know, how do you want to be remembered? So as if you were editing your, you know, Memorial video for yourself? What story would you tell what, what clips would you use? What would be the rhythm of the shots? What colors what, you know, tell me what the experience would be what what the people who love you would be watching,

Steven Sander: 21:38

I'm very lucky that I've got a wife who records everything, we've got a young daughter, so she's constantly got the camera going. And so, you know, a big part of that Memorial will probably be Footage from 2015 to whenever I die. And before that, it would be a montage of photographs. With some fun kind of music behind it. I think it's funny, I think when I think of that, I think I don't think of the work. You know, I think of the memorial we have all these all the all the home and family things. Be all the kind of home movies that are the home kind of videos that I used to do with my sister used to kind of film each other, doing crazy things or reenacting silly Monty Python sketches, and just liking around in the home movies of me playing around with Stop, stop frame animation, what my dad's doing wallpapering my grandma's house. And so I think the other filmmaking is 40. There'll be a kind of a tease, I'm a filmmaker, just from the types of stuff that I've filmed. But in terms of the memorial, I can't think of the I think of all the home movie clips and all the all the video with family, because I think that that's what also that was what ultimately keeps you grounded, and what gives you the most satisfaction at the end of the day, what what allows you to be the creator that you need to be if you haven't got that kind of stable background or that that grounding, then it's very difficult in a, in a situ in a career, where that there isn't any discipline, you have to be, especially now with the pandemic, you've got to be so self disciplined with your time. So make sure you you are working, you are moving forward and not standing still, that have that secure kind of background really, really helps that. And it's what obviously keep falling back to, you know, just just take stock, I don't know it's the, it's the surface of the trampoline, you can keep kind of bouncing back on trying to be higher and higher.

Lisa Hopkins: 23:43

Tell me more about that. That's amazing. Say that again.

Steven Sander: 23:47

Because I just got a champion now. So we're about to sell but trampling is on my mind. It's that canvas that you that's there and it's got a bit of give and you can you know, it's not it's not completely solid, because no family is you've got your ups and downs. But you can always when you whenever you fall, it's always there to catch you and then hopefully spring you back up. Yeah, and the more give that it has my wife gives me a lot of freedom to pursue my my kind of career, you know, to look after my daughter when I'm when I've got a lot of work on and, and vice versa. But she gives me a lot of flexibility. Because she gives me that flexibility, you know, like trembling Canvas, you know, it gives you the extra spring to be able to go higher to reach reach higher.

Lisa Hopkins: 24:31

That's brilliant. That is that is a beautiful image that you just conjured when you are catapulted up by all this support of your family. What do you see from up there?

Steven Sander: 24:42

What do I see, I suppose as well as a sense of calm, then there's that sense of serenity up there. You know, that moment where I just if just when you reach the top of that jump just before you start to fall, you know, you're you're weightless. And that's a really great place to be, you have that moment of calm and inner peace. And then you the wind starts rushing past you and you're you're back down to the ground again. You need that perspective as well. You know, if you had that with your weight this all the time that would get boring. Yeah.

Lisa Hopkins: 25:17

Totally beautiful. Thankyou so much for playing. What is your definition of living in the moment?

Steven Sander: 25:22

I think it's seizing opportunities, just being open to things you're living in the moment is being aware and attuned to everything that's going on around you. So you're aware when that door opens. Because if you're not living in the moment, you're missing things, you're missing important things. So little things. If you have children, your child doing something for the first time, that's always a, an amazing moment, or you're living in the moment, you're constantly evaluating where you want to go where you want to be. And we're living in the moment is having the confidence to do something. There's so many, there's so many times where I've had the opportunity to do something, for instance, you know, do you want to go for a walk today? Or do you want to? Do you want to go for a bike ride? Or do you want to go and visit the zoo? Or do you want to go to watch this play? Do you want to go to the cinema, and you think I'm quite comfortable sitting here, you know, doing my thing, reading this book or doing some work. And yet going to that place, whatever it was, has either been a really amazing experience and memories that last a lot longer than the memories that you would have created doing that work or reading that book, or you meet someone on that journey that leads to something else, and everything I've done. Everything I've done has been through those connections, the through season those moments, and, you know, it's always a rabbit hole to go down that path of thinking, well, if I hadn't have done that, where would my life be now. But I think it's also an exciting thing to know that if I do take the opportunity, something exciting might happen. And you know, my life could go in a different direction. That's an exciting thing to think about. A lot of the times there's there's a laziness that can set it. And I think right now, as well, with this pandemic, you know, it's very easy to be lazy to think that I can't, I can't do something, or there's no point in me doing something today. It's a point of me doing this thing, because I'm not going to be able to go where I normally want to go or and I think that that that leads to a very dark place. I think we need to always look to challenge ourselves look to do things, look to be proactive and constantly take stock, you know, constant try and get out of it. Get outside of ourselves and look at ourselves in order to be that you know, that conscience. And I'll find out finding that more and more and more where you know, of course, to try and give myself a kick to do stuff to not just, you know, be be blinkered and just think, well, I've got this to do. So I'm just going to do this, because that's very controllable and very tangible. You know, I know what this is. And I know what I'm getting out of it and not to be open to that to the other thing.

Lisa Hopkins: 28:01

Yeah. What do you know will stay true about you no matter what happens? Um,

Steven Sander: 28:08

I think that sense of what a sense of curiosity, think I'm always going to be curious to learn new things and not to be ignorant of the world. If you're not paying attention to things and don't think you're really contributing, and also always be a passionate storyteller. I think always want to tell stories.

Lisa Hopkins: 28:27

Yeah, absolutely. So as we near the end of our interview, let's play What makes you so what makes you laugh,

Steven Sander: 28:35

I think Yeah, awkwardness makes me laugh. The irony thing. irony makes me laugh. Ironic situations. Just the profundity of something. Yeah.

Lisa Hopkins: 28:45

What makes you hungry.

Steven Sander: 28:47

Not eating. What makes me hungry. No,

Lisa Hopkins: 28:52

I love that you said not eating. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, that's what makes everybody hungry. What makes you hungry?

Steven Sander: 28:59

When the lack of what's not working makes me hungry for more work.

Lisa Hopkins: 29:02

What makes you mad?

Steven Sander: 29:04

Injustice.

Lisa Hopkins: 29:05

frustrated.

Steven Sander: 29:06

an edit that doesn't work.

Lisa: 29:09

Interested?

Steven Sander: 29:10

Meeting a new person

Lisa: 29:11

Motivated?

Steven Sander: 29:12

Deadlines.

Lisa Hopkins: 29:13

What inspires you?

Steven Sander: 29:15

When I've seen a good film that's moved me.

Lisa Hopkins: 29:17

And finally,what makes you grateful?

Steven Sander: 29:20

My wife.

Lisa Hopkins: 29:23

Brilliant. What are the what are the top three things that have happened so far today?

Steven Sander: 29:29

Oh, well, I woke up and I didn't have as many aches and pains as I did yesterday. I played football. I played soccer for the first time and I'm bruised and battered. And I thought this morning is going to be terrible, but I'd make as much so that's that's the first thing. Coffee I love coffee. I love coffee coffee is much bigger in Australia than it is in the UK. And I have now a coffee fiend. I used to be a tea fiend and a coffee fiend. That's always an amazing thing to do. Every day is to drink some coffee. Makes me happy. The third thing was I was uploading phonetic last night and it worked. The little things in life are so pleasurable.

Lisa Hopkins: 30:13

Absolutely. are so funny. What are you most looking forward to today? Since it is early for you? Yeah,

Steven Sander: 30:20

spending spending some time with my daughter here. Constantly honestly saying can you play with me daddy? And of course it's a good working I've got because when you're working at home, they've got access to you 24 seven so they constantly because you can come in and go play time, and I feel so guilty. So having just delivered an edit I can now say Yes, today is yours.

Lisa Hopkins: 30:41

Yay. How old is your daughter?

Steven Sander: 30:43

She's five.

Lisa Hopkins: 30:45

Oh, all right, Stephen, listen, I so appreciate you taking the time today really to be with me in the moment. It was such fun. Thank you so much.

Steven Sander: 30:55

Pleasure. Thank you very much.

Lisa Hopkins: 30:57

I've been speaking today with Stephen Sander, you can check out my beautiful stutter now streaming exclusively on Discovery. Plus, if you've been enjoying stop time live in the moment podcast please let me know by leaving a review and subscribing. We are heading into season three. So stay safe, stay healthy, and remember to live in the moment. In music stop time is that beautiful moment where the band is suspended in rhythmic unison, supporting the soloist to express their individuality. In the moment, I encourage you to take that time and create your own rhythm. Until next time, I'm Lisa Hopkins. Thanks for listening