High CYA & High Metals: Fred Schweer’s Fix-It Formula

Algae that won’t quit, stains that appear out of nowhere, and chlorine that seems to do less the more you add—if that sounds familiar, you’re not alone. We sat down with Fred Squeer of Pool RX to unpack the chemistry hiding beneath clear water: dissolved metals and high cyanuric acid. Together we map a straightforward plan to reduce chlorine use, prevent algae, and avoid oxidation events that create brown iron spots or purple copper dust.

We start with the truth about metals. Well water, aging copper heat exchangers, and copper-based algaecides can push copper and iron above safe thresholds. Before installing Pool RX, a quick metal test can save you from stains and headaches. Fred explains why Pool RX’s chelated minerals are protected while unchelated, existing metals are not—and how increasing chlorine activity can drive those metals past saturation. We dig into proven removal paths like CuLator polymer capture, alum floc, and when sequestering agents make sense, along with why they need reapplication.

Then we tackle cyanuric acid. CYA helps chlorine last but makes it kill slower, which is exactly where Pool RX shines by targeting microalgae so chlorine can focus on clarity and sanitation. We break down adjusted alkalinity—how high CYA can make your alkalinity reading look fine when it’s effectively low—and show how to keep pH, alkalinity, and calcium in the sweet spot. If purple dust appears, we explain copper cyanurate, why it forms, and the fast path to resolution by lowering CYA and restoring balance.

• why testing for copper and iron before install matters
• how chelation protects Pool RX minerals but not existing metals
• sources of metals and safe target ranges
• proven metal removal options including CuLator and alum floc
• high CYA slowing kill rate and how Pool RX helps
• adjusted alkalinity with high CYA and practical ranges
• identifying and preventing purple copper cyanurate
• raising alkalinity with sodium bicarbonate dosing
• cutting tabs, using liquid chlorine, and slowing CYA rise
• exte

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Chapters

• 0:00 Welcome And Episode Setup
• 3:21 Why Metals Matter With Pool RX
• 7:18 Testing And Managing Copper And Iron
• 9:33 Proven Ways To Remove Metals
• 11:19 High CYA: Friend And Foe
• 13:34 Adjusted Alkalinity Explained
• 17:34 Preventing Purple Stains And Imbalance

Transcript

SPEAKER_01: 1:51

Hi, welcome to the Best of the Pool Game Podcast show. In this episode, I'll be joined again by Fred Squeer of Pool RX. We're going to talk about the compatibility and some questions you may have about Pool RX in this episode to get more in depth with the product. And Pool RX Plus is a great way to reduce your chemical your chlorine usage in the pool and eliminate all types of algae in your pool. Are you a pool service pro looking to take your business to the next level? Join the Pool Guy Coaching Program. Get expert advice, business tips, exclusive content, and get direct support. From me, I'm a 35-year veteran in the industry. Whether you're starting out or scaling up, I've got the tools to help you succeed. Learn more at swimming poollearning.com. The Polar X is great as long as everything's within range, but there are two factors that you have to be aware of. One of them, of course, is any metals in the water. And the second one is high cyanaric acid. So let's start with the metals.

SPEAKER_00: 2:45

To your point, you know, normal pool chemistry ranges are a range, right? There's a wide range there for air, but there are limits. And when we talk about normal pool chemistry ranges, we also want to include metals. If they're on well water, uh or if they have old copper plumbing or an old copper heat exchanger, if they've been using other copper-based algacides, those are all sources of metals coming into your water. And normal pool chemistry uh is suggests that you know 0.2 parts per million or less is considered normal for copper in the water. Um, you know, at 0.2, uh actually 0.1 is is for iron. So it's a very low amount that is considered normal range. Um and the reason why I bring that up is you want to make sure your water is in normal range, including the metals. Um, and and that again is only in certain markets uh around the country, only from certain areas. Um typically by now, if if you're listening to this, you kind of know where you're at with that, and and you know that you should probably test a pool uh for metals um at least once a year just to see where you're at, you know, depending on where you are in the in the country. And why that's important with Pool RX guys is we are adding the right amount of mineral to the water based on the gallons. Our minerals were chelated, so they're protected, but we can't protect the existing metal in the water, right? So not only are we adding the right amount to the water, and ours is protected, but our minerals are also making chlorine much more active and available. And why that's important, if you have high metal uh high metal content in the water, be it copper, iron, or any other metal, we don't want to get to a saturation point, right? We want you that that saturation point is possible if you have elevated metals. And what that means is if you're saturated, that that metal in the water, that non-chelated non-pool RX metal in the water, is much more sensitive to oxidation or falling out of solution. And so we don't want that to happen to you. So that's why we say test first. Um, and then you know, again, like I mentioned, we're making chlorine much more active and available. And so that, you know, you put a pool RX in, you don't realize you're you're extremely elevated in your in your metals. Um, and you try, you know, you put out you add chlorine to the pool, and that raises you know that that chlorine level. And next thing you know, you start seeing, you know, brown spots from the iron, or or you see, you know, purple or black black from the copper. Um, again, not our that's not our minerals, but it's it's a reaction from ours taking up space and ours making more the making the chlorine more active. So long story short, and again, this is you know, this is only a small percentage of folks out there um that do have metal problems, but I like to take the time to go through this so you understand that there is value in in testing for metals in your water, getting those down before installing pool RX, and then um, you know, using pool X as directed. Um, you're not gonna, once you put pool RX in, like I mentioned earlier, your chelation of the product uh is so strong that you're not gonna get an accurate reading. So if you're noticing an elevated copper level, ask for putting pool RX in. Don't worry about that. You're you're safe. That you're we're allowed to have a higher level and it's that's safe because it is chelated. At the same point, if you notice that you put a pool RX in and there is zero copper in the water, and you're thinking, shoot, there should be a reading. I just put pool RX in there. Don't worry about that either. That like I said, the chelation is so strong that the the reagent copper test cannot see through it accurate accurately. So you you may get zero reading, you may get an elevated reading. Either way, uh you're you're safe. Uh the fluorex is working, uh, and and you're gonna be fine. Um, so again, just to reiterate, you know, normal pool chemistry, which is 90% of the people out there, super simple.

SPEAKER_01: 6:38

Most pools aren't gonna have metals in them. And it's easy to test with the copper test strip. And some people have the color Q2X Pro 9. I recommend this test kit, by the way, for the pool pros, the the Lamont color Q2X Pro 9, because it has copper and iron uh built into the photometer. Um, but this is not a huge problem here in my area, but there are some areas where metal gets introduced to the water, so I understand that. And then uh the Culator product has been proven scientifically and in labs and to be what you would use to reduce the metal in the water before using Polar X, is that correct?

SPEAKER_00: 7:14

Yeah, so there's a lot of ways to get metals out of the water. Culator uh is one of those products that we definitely believe in. Um it's a little polymer bag that drops in the skimmer, and as the water flows over it, over, you know, the more water flow, the faster it works. But as the water flows over it, it physically uh bonds to all the trace metals in the water and it catches them in this little bag. It takes, you know, depending on flow, it'll take two to three, maybe even four weeks, depending on how much metals in the water and how much flow you have. But uh what I like about it is it does pull all the trace metal out of the water, even the stuff you're not testing for. So you might be testing for copper and iron, and you can take that out, but it'll also pull out you know, all the other metals in the water, uh manganese, cobalt, you know, and other metals as well. So um it does work great. Um, there's also other um other solutions out there. Um, you know, there's some, you know, these these metal out products and metal freeze and and um you know super stained outs. These are typically uh a sequestering agent that is is holding that that metal in solution and trying to filter some of it out, making it a little larger and filtering it out. Uh those those can help. Um the thing with sequestering agents, again, is they do break down from time uh and chlorine. And so you got to keep adding those. Um also uh alum flocculation works works really good. Um, you know, it's basically a flocculant that coagulates the metals and drops them to the bottom to be vacuumed out. So there's a lot of methods to take metal out of the water. I think the easiest one, um, it might take a little longer uh is the CU later, uh, just because it's it's kind of self-contained and it's it's easy to it just takes a little bit longer, but it does work really well. They have the the one part per million bag that goes in the skimmer, and they also have the four part per million um one that's in the call a gator egg that can go into the pump basket that can pull it out faster. But um again, if you're if you do have metals, you're gonna want to test for them first. Uh and then you're gonna want to take them out with whatever method you choose, and then you want to retest before adding the pull RX. If you are using the Culator, you're gonna want to uh take that bag uh out of the skimmer or pump basket, whichever one you're using. Uh the celator will pull our minerals out of the water. So that's the only one that will pull our minerals out of the water. Uh the alum flocculation uh will as well, but typically these other sequestered, sequestering agent um liquid uh metal out type products don't affect us because of our telation. So um, you know, you're you're safe there. But um, yeah, sealator is fantastic. We recommend it. Uh, easy to use. Um, just follow their directions.

SPEAKER_01: 10:16

And then the other one, the high cyaneric acid, you want to touch on that?

SPEAKER_00: 10:20

Yeah, so high cyaneric acid um again is is is not a problem for pullar eggs. In fact, we are great in high cyanuric environments uh because our minerals are killing and preventing that microalgae. And in high cyanuric environments, the the chlorine lasts longer, but kills slower. And so that's where we are taking the pressure off that slow acting chlorine by eliminating preventing the allergy. And so now that slow acting chlorine is more available to really clarify the water and keep it safe. Uh, so that's the benefit in high cyanuric pools, but you also have to be aware of your um adjusted alkalinity calculation.

SPEAKER_01: 11:00

Yeah, and we can touch a little bit on the um adjusted alkalinity or carbonate alkalinity, because I think it's important because the range that you want your alkalinity is 80 to 120. I don't think we stated the ranges, but 7.2 to 7.8 pH, and then calcium hardness 200 to 400. So the alkalinity is an important aspect of pool chemistry. A lot of it has to do with the fact that, of course, the there's the buffer. If it gets too low, you add some masses at the pool. It's gonna drop the pH really low in the pool rapidly. That's one of the one of the reasons why you don't want your alkalinity at 60 or 50 or 40. So with this, um, most people, let's just say California, and we'll use this as a baseline. Most pools here, 100 parts per million cyaneric acid is pretty normal, 150. It's not unusual to get to a pool with 200. So this is also something that you should be doing, regardless of using pool RX. It should be something that you do for the LSI and do for pool balancing. Is that correct? It's not just a pool RX type thing.

SPEAKER_00: 12:00

Absolutely, absolutely, David. Yeah, let's let's talk about, you know, again, pool RX is great in high cyberic acid environments because we are, you know, killing and preventing the microalgae, uh, which frees up the slow acting chlorine from the high cyniric. Um, and that's the benefit of using pool RX in in these high cynac pools, is that the the minerals are are doing the hard work of killing and preventing the algae. And so that slow acting chlorine in the water um caused by the high cyniric uh is now more available to clarify the water and keep it safe. Um and to your point, David, cyanuric acid does affect carbon and alkalinity. And there is a uh an adjusted alkalinity calculation, um, and that's also affected by your pH. But in as a general rule, um, you know, when when the pH is 7-4, it's it's about one your your alkalinity reading that you're getting uh on your reagent, uh, when your cyanuric acid is above 100 parts per million, your alkalinity reading is one third lower than it's telling you. Now, this becomes more and more important the higher and higher the cyanuric acid gets. And because what happens is as the cyanuric acid goes up to that 150, 175, 200, 250 range, it's affecting your your alkalinity even more. And also, it's getting more saturated in the water. And so what's happening is the the water is you know double the legal amount of cyanuric acid. Um, and then you're if you're not adjusting your alkalinity, the water is out of balance. So your alkalinity is is down in you know 20 or 40 range, your pH is in in you know normal normal range, you know, below 7.8, but your cyanuric acid is saturated. And when that water is out of balance, the cyanuric, whatever's in saturation is going to come out of solution. That cyanuric acid can actually come out of solution and it can catch on to our our copper minerals in the water, and it turns into copper cyanurate. And copper cyanurate uh is a form, it comes in a form of a purple, a kind of a purple dust that um will stick to scale. And if it does not go away, you can try and brush it, you can try to vacuum it, it will not go away until you lower your uh cyanuric acid uh ideally to like you know 30 or 40 and get the and get the water back in balance. And then that will actually dissolve back into solution. Again, we are great in high cyanuric environments, fantastic. And there's a a wide range for air on this. Uh but as a general rule, when we're talking about this, we we want to make sure with or without pool RX, you do want to keep your your alkalinity reading in normal range. And um it's a very simple, you know, in as a general, you know, as a general calculation, it's it's one third, meaning to your point, if if you're it's if you're reading 90, it's really 60. Uh, if but if you're reading 120 on alkalinity, uh, you know, and your cyaneric is high, it's not 120, it's one third lower, which would actually make it 80. And so you're in good shape there. You wouldn't have to adjust. You know, if if your alkalinity is is reading, you know, 60, uh, and and and you have to adjust it. I mean, really, your alkalinity is that 40 uh when your cyanuric acid is it is super high, and that's where you're running into these this copper cyanurate potential. For the we've been talking about this for many years, and so a lot of service guys are aware of this, and so we're not getting as many questions as we as we used to. Um, and guys are much more educated regarding um, you know, water chemistry and cyanuric acid. So this is less and less an issue. But if you're new to pool RX and if you're new to the pool business, it's just one of those things you want to you want to be aware of, and so you can keep your water normal range. And it's very easy to adjust alkalinity up and inexpensive um when necessary.

SPEAKER_01: 15:58

And you know, also low alkalinity causes modeling in pools, especially if they're newer. So having such a low alkalinity is bad for a lot of things. Baking soda is the best way to raise alkalinity without raising the pH. I call it baking soda. I guess in the industry they call it sodium bicarbonate, but it's basically just baking soda.

SPEAKER_00: 16:17

Yeah, sodium bicarb, about a pound and a half of that per 10,000 gallons will raise you by 10 points. You know, we're talking about cyanuric acid. If you're above 100, you know, you're that's when you start um considering your adjusted alkalinity calculation to keep that water uh closer to normal range. Um and if you can do that, and if you can do that, you know, high cyanaric, you know, is not an issue for us, you know. 200, 250, you know, that's it's not an issue. But again, it goes back to you and your water balance. I I would I would urge you to to get your customers to to get some fresh water in there so you're not having to fight this water balance issue when cyanuric acid gets so high. I mean, you're you're just you're just playing the the you know roller coaster game there. But um yeah, I I would urge you guys to to teach your customers about um you know cyanuric acid and trying to get some fresh water in these pools, you know, every few years.

SPEAKER_01: 17:12

Well, one good thing about polar X that I like is that let's say this is what I do with the pools that are like around 150 in cyaneric acid. I'll use the polar X in there, and then I'll of course cut the tablets down to minimal. Then I'll use liquid chlorine. And what I like about the Polar X is since it makes the chlorine much more effective, you can actually reduce the cyaneric acid level that season by not adding more cyaneric acid to the pool with overusing tablets. And naturally the cyaneric acid level is going to you know drop over the winter and with some rain and some you know some dilution, adding water in the summer, things like that. And so it's a great way actually to reduce cyaneric acid in the pool, in my opinion, without doing a partial full drain. A lot of customers just don't like draining their pool, and it's kind of a good stop gap. And I use this method all the time out there.

SPEAKER_00: 18:00

Yeah, I I agree. Uh um to your point, you know, if you're able to use about 40 to 50 percent less chlorine with pool RX, if you're using tabs, obviously you're you're putting less tabs in, and the less tabs you put in, the the slower your your cyanuric acid level will rise. So yeah, you definitely have a benefit of of um prolonging the water life with pool RX because you know your cyanuric acid levels uh won't go up as quickly because you're not using as much chlorine. So definite benefit to not only the pool service guy, but to the homeowner.

SPEAKER_01: 18:31

And if you're looking for other podcast episodes, you can of course go to my website, swingingprolearning.com on the banner. There's a podcast icon that'll take you to over eighteen hundred episodes. And if you're interested in the coaching program atfer, you can learn more at poolguycoaching.com. Thanks for listening to this podcast. Have a good rest of your week and God bless.