All About Metals in Your Pool With Joe Laurino

Metal stains are one of the fastest ways a pool can look “dirty” even when the water is balanced and clear. The tricky part is that metals like copper and iron can hide in plain sight as dissolved ions, then suddenly oxidize and plate onto plaster, steps, and fittings. That’s why we wanted a straight, practical conversation on pool metal removal that goes beyond quick fixes and old myths. 

We’re joined by Joe Loreno, CEO and president of Puretic Products, the company behind Culator. Joe breaks down the chemistry in simple terms: why most pool filters cannot catch dissolved metals, how sequestering agents work (and what they can’t do), and how a polymer-based approach can physically bind metal ions so you can remove them from the pool without draining. We also cover real-world sources of metals, from fill water and equipment to runoff from landscaping and nearby metal roofs or gutters. 

If you’ve ever debated whether a stain is organic or inorganic, you’ll love the field-friendly diagnostics: the vitamin C tablet test, what stain colors can suggest, and why metal testing can be confusing when a stain has already plated out or when a test only measures “free” metals. We also walk through a clear three-step workflow using ascorbic acid, citric acid, a strong sequestering agent, and the Culator 4.0, including how long it can take based on turnovers and why temporary cloudiness can be normal. 

If this helps you troubleshoot a stubborn stain, subscribe for more pool industry deep dives, share the episode with a pool pro who’s battling metals, and leave a review so more people can find the show.

We talk with Joe Loreno of Puretic Products about where pool metals come from, how they turn into stains, and how to tell a metal stain from an organic stain without guessing. We lay out a practical no-drain workflow that lifts stains off the surface, protects the water while chlorine comes back, and then physically removes copper and iron from circulation.  

• Joe’s chemistry background and why Culator exists  
• How the Culator polymer binds metal ions without dissolving  
• Differences between Culator 1.0 in the skimmer and 4.0 in the pump basket  
• Why dissolved metals do not backwash out of DE, sand, or cartridge filters  
• Common metal sources from fill water, equipment, plaster, chemicals, and runoff  
• How to use a vitamin C tablet to confirm metal staining  
• Why stain color helps but cannot fully identify the metal  
• The testing gap between free metal readings and total metal load  
• Three-step process: reduce stains, sequester ions, remove metals through circulation  
• How long removal can take based on pump size and daily turnovers  
• Why temporary cloudiness happens and why it clears as chlorine is restored  

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Transcript

Welcome And Why Metals Matter

SPEAKER_00 0:14

Hey, welcome to the best of the pool by podcast show. This one goes back a few years, and this is a podcast with Joe Arena of Credit Products. They're the makers of the two later metal eliminator, and you're probably familiar with this product. And Joe's going to cover metals in the pool in great detail here. So I think you're going to really get a lot of information out of this podcast. Are you a pool service pro looking to take your business to the next level? Join the Pool Guy Coaching Program. Get expert advice, business tips, exclusive content, and get direct support from me. I'm a 35-year veteran in the industry. Whether you're starting out or scaling up, I've got the tools to help you succeed. Learn more at swimming poollearning.com. So I'm joined today by Joe Loreno. He's the CEO and president of Pureetic Products, which is the parent company of See You Later. How are you doing today, Joe?

SPEAKER_01 1:06

Pretty good. Thank you for having me today.

SPEAKER_00 1:09

Yeah, so you want to just give a brief summary of your background in the industry for the listeners?

SPEAKER_01 1:14

Sure. I have a degree actually in chemistry, PhD, synthetic organic chemistry. I've done postoc in biochemistry, done uh medical device development, tests, test for heart attacks, got involved with the pool industry when I when I founded this company because I made some interesting compounds and actually patented those compounds. And in 2009, established periodic products.

SPEAKER_00 1:39

I think in 2000, I think it was 2014 or 13 when I discovered your your product, your Culator 4.0. But since then, of course, you have a lot more products in your lineup. Can you go over some of the products in the lineup that Culator has and touch on the 4.0, which is, I think, one of the industry leading products for metal remover? And I guess we can talk about what C Lator actually does

Meet The Chemist Behind Culator

SPEAKER_00 2:02

in the industry as far as what their products do in the pool, as far as the metal eliminating process.

SPEAKER_01 2:08

Sure. Well, let's start with the 4.0, and that's actually kind of the fundamental product that we have, or the initial product, which is actually the polymer, that has some interesting properties in it. It binds metals out of water, but it doesn't actually actually dissolve in the water. So that is our 4.0. We also have the 1.0 product, which is basically if the 1.0 is one times the amount of polymer that's in the bag, the 4.0 is four times. The other difference is that the 1.0 product goes into the skimmer basket and the 4.0 is in a plastic holder that goes into the pump basket. Obviously, the 4.0 is a more efficient product because all the water passes through the pump basket, where only a portion of the water passes through the actual skimmer basket or baskets. We then launched uh products for the spa, similar products that are based on the polymer. We also underwent a kind of a two-year research project to encapsulate the polymer into filter media. So we then created the what are called the fill fast filter units to for source water filtration. And then we then created a year ago a startup product that assists with startup of pools, be they plaster surface pools, fiberglass pools, or vinyl liner pools. And then we launched with that a material, which is basically called in the industry a sequestering agent for metals. So those are pretty much the major products that we have in the pool industry.

SPEAKER_00 3:43

And it's all geared towards metal elimination and stain removal in pools. And when I first tested your product, I contacted my source at Taylor, and then of course Bob Lowry, and then you know they verified and vouched for the product. And I've I've seen it with my own eyes. I've seen the celulator 4.0 bag changing color when it takes it, I guess it takes the metal ions out of the water. Is that correct?

SPEAKER_01 4:05

Yes, that is correct. It actually takes the ions and binds them to the polymer in exactly the same way that the the liquid sequestering agents, they actually bind the metal in the same way. They chelate it. But because the polymer doesn't actually dissolve in the water, it's very easy to accumulate them in the bag and just throw away the bag and with it the metals.

SPEAKER_00 4:28

Yeah, and so I guess the common myth or wrong thinking, I guess, in the industry is that you can backwash the metals out in a D filter or sand filter. That's not correct, right? The metal ions don't backwash out.

SPEAKER_01 4:40

That is correct. The metal ions are actually dissolved in the water, and even if you were to chelate them, those kind of chelation particles are very small. And these chemicals have been used in at least the liquid reagents, have been used in the water treatment industry for decades. And the only way to get those out is by using ultrafiltration techniques, which are under under a micron in size, and you'll never get that with your with your pool filter, whether it's a DE filter or a cartridge or sand. So those those those dissolved materials

How The Polymer Traps Metal Ions

SPEAKER_01 5:15

actually pass right through the filter.

SPEAKER_00 5:18

And I think that's why the C Later 4.0 is such a crucial product, because when I first discovered it back then, there was nothing on the market that you can really use to take out the metal. Because sequester agents is suspend them, right? They don't remove them from the water. And the C Lator 4.0 is a revolutionary product that actually takes the metal ions out without having to drain the entire pool.

SPEAKER_01 5:40

That is correct. And the the material is patented. And actually the metal, the metal complexes with the polymer, which we call the, if you will, the these these kind of composite materials are actually patented also. Because they they will themselves have very unique properties.

SPEAKER_00 6:00

Since we're talking about removing the metals from the pool, I guess one of the biggest questions you're going to get, or we get is from the customers is how does the metal get in the water anyway? So if you're a pool pro and you're looking at stains and staining in the pool, and the customer asks you, well, how did the metal get in there? So how would how what are some of the sources of the metal in the pool water to begin with?

SPEAKER_01 6:20

Well, when when I when I walk up to a pool, I look for two major major sources. One would be metals that are caused by things that are inside the pool and those that are really outside the pool. So when you talk about inside the pool, you obviously have to talk about the fill water, the source water. You have to talk about the equipment that's there, the chemicals you use, the filter media, the plaster that is used if it is a plaster surface pool,

The Real Sources Of Pool Metals

SPEAKER_01 6:48

the water features that could be there, whether there's any metal in any any of the spillways. And then we look outside the pool. We look for lawn chemicals that may have been put in the pool inadvertently. We look for the deck stone and the other kind of materials that are around the pool because rainwater is acidic. And depending upon what's around the pool and the runoff characteristics, you can get the metals going into the pool that way. And when we talk about runoff, we look at vegetation around the pool, making sure that any planting beds are lower than the pool deck. And we look for things like copper gutters and metal roofs and make sure that they're not spilling over into the pool during a rainstorm.

SPEAKER_00 7:32

So in other words, there's a lot of different sources for the metal in the pool water.

SPEAKER_01 7:36

Yes, a lot.

SPEAKER_00 7:38

And then I guess another question would be you know, there's organic staining when the pool runs out of chlorine. There's also staining just in the maybe the plaster that they've actually the modeling and different aspects of the plaster itself. So identifying the stains, I think, is one of the hardest parts, I think, if for the Pool Service Pro. When you're out there standing in front of the pool, the sun's hitting it. Is there a best time to look at the pool? And is there a way to kind of know that it's actually a metal stain just by visually looking at the pool?

SPEAKER_01 8:09

The best time to look at the any at any staining would be when there's enough light that you can actually see the surfaces. And so you want to not do it when there's any kind of reflective light because it makes it really difficult to see. In terms of uh being

Quick Tests For Organic Vs Metal

SPEAKER_01 8:25

looking at the stain and trying to trying to identify the stain, I think you're asking the right question. I think historically the industry's been focused on is it a copper stain, is it an iron stain? And when which is a valid question, but I think the first question is, is it organic or is it metal, which we call inorganic? And I think once you once you can identify which class of stain it is, then you can utilize the chemistry that's there to actually remove the stain. And it's also important when you're looking at stains to not only look at look at remediating the surface and getting the stain off the surface, but to identify the source of that stain. Because obviously you if you're going to put a band-aid on it, you want to make sure that it heals. You want to make sure that you you actually correct the problem that's there, causing that that metal stain or that inorganic or that red the the you know organic stain to form. So I think the first thing you do is is it organic or is it inorganic? And and I think we can use some chemical treatments to do that. So I typically go in with some with some with some vitamin C tablets that are basically, I go to one of the local drugstores and I get the chewable children's form because it dissolves pretty quickly. And I but I place it on the stain, typically on the step, and I leave it there for 30 seconds. I lift this, lift it up, and if it's taken the stain off, then I know that it's probably 99.99% of the time, it's a metal stain. It's inorganic. If it doesn't take it off, if it makes it darker, then I know that it's probably organic.

SPEAKER_00 10:08

Got it. And so the organic staining is from no no chlorine in the pool, and maybe certain leaf that falls in there, or maybe some other kind of thing like that, right? It's not a metal per se.

SPEAKER_01 10:20

Correct. When we talk about organic, we talk about in in chemistry, we talk about carbon, which is actually, you know, in our it's it's actually organic material. So those are things like leaves. It could be oil, you know, suntan lotion, it could be algae, it could be other debris that gets in the pool, could be tannins in the water. So it could be a bunch of things. But they're all carbon-based organic materials.

SPEAKER_00 10:47

Mm-hmm. And I think a lot of guys like me, I don't know if this is a good practice. We take a three-inch trichlor tablet and we'll rub it on there just to see if it comes off. Is that something that you think would identify an organic stain over a metal stain?

SPEAKER_01 11:01

You could do that. I I I I actually prefer ascorbic acid because again, you're you're putting a strong oxidizer on the surface, and I like to preserve the surface. I would much rather use a weak agent, which of course ascorbic acid is vitamin C is, um, and it dissolves. If it doesn't work, then I know that it's probably organic and I would chalk the pool. I'm kind of from the the Greg Greg school, Grayer School of Surface Chemistry. You know, do do no harm to your surface. And and I I think a trichlor tablet is is pretty aggressive to go after uh a stain.

SPEAKER_00 11:39

Yeah, so I think we'll stop doing that then. We'll just use the vitamin C tablets. It's just one of those things that is old school, I guess, it's been in the industry forever, and the guys always talk about it. And I do it myself, and probably not not the best idea, like you said, because it is pr pretty pretty hard on the surface uh chemical-wise. And so we've talked about identifying the stains, and let's talk about the colors of the stains uh real quick before we move on to treating them. And if you're looking at the stains, we mentioned identifying if it's inorganic or organic, and then the colors are kind of important to identify the stain. I know on your website you have a lot of great photos of iron staining, copper staining, and the other stainings. You want to just briefly go over what we're looking for in the different staining colors?

SPEAKER_01 12:25

Right. And and again, I would caution that while this is a good approximation, metals and chemistry can fool you sometimes. So you want to be careful. If it's a brown stain, we typically would say that's iron, although there are some organics that look brown, some algae and bacteria, so you gotta kind of have that in the back of your mind. Green, if the if the if the water is green, we typically would look at copper, potentially iron

Stain Colors And Metal Testing Traps

SPEAKER_01 12:54

early on. You could have an alkalinity issue. We you could have a tannin issue, brown water could give you some tannin issues, also, which are organics. The only one that we're pretty much can take to the bank is a purple stain or the you know, the smurf pool or the Barney stain, which is that purple, purple cyanuric acid copper complex, because that really doesn't have anything similar to that that lives in the organic world. But but pretty much we're looking at browns and and sometimes blue for copper. If it's a fresh stain, if it's an older stain that's been oxidized, it may turn a little gray on you. So that's why you know it's both the age of the stain and the metal that is causing that stain. So we go in and we kind of eliminate some options, but I don't think I would positively ID a metal stain based on its appearance alone. It's really how it behaves chemically.

SPEAKER_00 13:52

Yeah, and so the metal testing I think is important too. So if you have a test kit, maybe like the color Q Pro 9 that does iron and copper, and there's a reading in the water showing that it's in there, then you could pretty much say that there's metal in the water. Is that correct?

SPEAKER_01 14:08

That is correct, but again, caution here a little bit too. And I don't want to make this overly complex because I think metal staining removal is very easy to do. But you have to be careful that if all of the metal that was actually dissolved in the water, because that's that's the first thing that'll happen, is that the metal will actually be dissolved in the water and then it will oxidize with chlorine or with air and actually plate out onto the surface. So if you have staining on your walls and there's nothing left in the water because it's all plated out, you may have no metal in that water, but you have a lot of metal stains in that water. And then so that's the one thing that I would caution is that if there's an ongoing problem, then yes, you'll see some metal in the water. But if you have metal staining and it comes off with ascorbic acid, don't be surprised if there's not a lot of metal in that water. The second thing is that it's testing is really important to know your test and to read the manual because some tests that transfer copper and iron are not total metal tests, but rather measure the free metal, which if you put in a sequestering agent, it's not going to read on the test. So you have to make sure you read the manual and know whether or not your test measures total metal or measures free metal only.

SPEAKER_00 15:32

Yeah, that's interesting. I don't think I've heard that talked about much in the industry. And I think that's a good point about testing for metals. I so I think once you identify that it is a metal staining and the process for removing it, you mentioned it was easy. You want to go over the the celator process of removing the metal staining and removing the metal ions from the water.

SPEAKER_01 15:54

Right. So as as I've already said, that the metals actually dissolved in in the water first, and it exists as an ion, as you mentioned. And what happens is with chlorine or with oxygen, that material oxidizes, becomes a solid, and actually what we call plates out or goes to the surface and actually attaches to the surface of that pool. So to remove the metal stain, you would use a chemical, and we typically use two: ascorbic acid and citric acid. And one's better on copper and one is better on iron. But to make the process simple, instead of figuring out whether it's copper or iron,

The Three-Step No-Drain Removal Plan

SPEAKER_01 16:35

because sometimes it's both, sometimes you have both in there. You may have a little bit of manganese and you may have a little bit of cobalt, doesn't really matter. So we say put both of them in. So we put in ascorbic acid, we put in, we put in a pound of citric acid, and then what that does is that actually takes the stain off the wall. And by doing that, it actually what we call reduces it, just like we oxidize it on the wall, well, we reduce it off the wall, and that dissolves it back into the water. So now the stain is gone, but the metals are in the water. So then you put in a sequestering agent, a liquid sequestering agent, and that then does what I call the kind of the MM coating of the metal. It actually coats the ion with the with an organic material that allows the chlorine to sit in the pool because you want to put chlorine back in that pool. And but the chlorine is going to be chewing away at this candy coating, but it gives you time for the culator ultra to actually pluck the metal out of the water. Because remember, unlike doing a one-patch treatment, you actually recirculate the water in a pool. So you take the water that goes through the ultra material, removes the metal lines, but you take that clean water and dump it back into the regular pool through through the lines, return lines. So you actually slowly decrease the metal concentration in the water. So you need a a number of turnovers of that pool to actually get the metal level down. So it's a very, very simple three-step process. You actually reduce the metal stains off the wall, you coat the metals in the water, and then you actually remove the metals from the water with the polymer C Lator 4.0.

SPEAKER_00 18:19

So how long does it normally take the sculator 4.0 to remove the metal ions out of the water?

SPEAKER_01 18:24

That depends on the how big your pump is and how big your you know the plumbing is to the pool and how many turnovers you get per day. What we basically, to make this simple, because of because of the variability out there, in our kit, we actually give you a sequestering agent that's about twice as strong as any other agent out there. What that does is it buys you 30 days. You should be able to maintain your sequestering agent in the pool for 30 days, which gives you about four weeks to get that metal out of the water, which is more than enough time for the CU later to pull the metal off. If you run your pool for you know six to eight hours a day, give you enough turnovers. We've built enough safeguard into our process so that if you don't run your pool six or eight hours a day, it may take you three

Timing, Turnovers, And What’s In The Kit

SPEAKER_01 19:12

weeks, but the but everything in there should be able to buy you that month's time.

SPEAKER_00 19:16

Yeah, and so the kit, you want to just go over the kit one more time, what it contains, and just the name of the kit for the listeners.

SPEAKER_01 19:23

It's actually called the the no-drain metal stain eliminator kit, kind of a long name for something that's real simple. It contains a pound of the ascorbic acid, which is a dry powder. It contains a pound of a second acid, citric acid, and these are all food-based products. And then you sprinkle these around the pool, and then you put in the quart of a sequestering agent that we that we include in the bucket. And again, you just walk or walk around the pool. You basically wait, uh let the pool run for about an hour, turn it off. The next day, the stain should be removed, and you just check your pH, make sure you're still above seven, put the 4.0 in the pump basket, return the chlorine level to 1 to 3 ppm chlorine, and you're could use that pool. And in the month that will happen between the time you start and the time the CO later takes all the metal out, you do nothing. It's just a the bag will turn blue if it's copper, it'll turn brown if it's iron, and you'll have a pool and the stains won't come back.

SPEAKER_00 20:32

And I've used the original kit. I think you had this on the market previously. I think the only change is a stronger sequestering agent. Is that correct?

SPEAKER_01 20:40

That is correct. We we used the best one out there at the time and it was good, it was really good, but I told the the guys in the lab to make a better one because I wanted to make sure that it would last for you know for 30 days, given that people tend to put a little bit too much chlorine in the pool, wanted to give us a little extra buffer. So the new one that we've been selling for over a year now has the the better the better sequestering agent in it.

SPEAKER_00 21:06

Yeah, so I think to sum it up for someone who's kind of a layman in metal removal, first thing you want to do with the kit, the asorbic acid and the citric acid will pull the stain off, and then the sequestering agent will suspend the metal ion so that the sculator 4.0 can pull it out of the pool. Is that a correct kind of summary?

SPEAKER_01 21:25

That is a great summary.

SPEAKER_00 21:27

Okay, I think, you know, as far as the kit goes, I used the original one myself. I thought it worked really great. Um, I think it made the pool a little cloudy at the first day, but after that I cleared it up really quick, and the stain was totally removed from the I have a video on my YouTube channel on it. You can see that it was removed from the the deep ends, kind of like a step area or a seat area, and then the bottom of the pool took the stain right off too. Um and then of course the bag subsequently turned blue because

Cloudiness, Buffers, And Real Results

SPEAKER_00 21:54

it was a copper stain in that pool. So definitely the kit is a great way for the full service pro to start using their, you know, expanding their services in a way to remove those stains and and make the customer happy with the stain removal process. And it makes it easy having a kit, I think, instead of kind of getting things and gathering them together, just buying the kit and having everything in your hands is an easy way to go.

SPEAKER_01 22:20

Right, exactly. I would just add that the cloudiness is actually is actually common and and actually expected. Uh I kind of mentioned oxidation reduction a little bit here, and what happens is that you know the chlorine doesn't know what it's actually reacting with. It doesn't have any kind of a a knowledge base, right? So it sees the ascorbic and citric acid that's in excess, because we obviously give you more than enough because we don't know how many how much metal you have. So we've overdosed the pool with ascorbic and citric. Well, the first thing the chlorine's gonna do is react with the excess ascorbic and citric acid. And that's that's what causes the cloudy color. As you restore the chlorine back and you hold your chlorine, obviously the pool will turn clearer back again. So it's totally expected. It's because we actually give you more of the materials than you need, just again, as a buffer to make sure that that you'll have a successful outcome of the of the kit.

SPEAKER_00 23:18

Yeah, I think you've explained it well to anyone who's listening, a homeowner, pool pro that wants to treat their metals, and I think the kit is definitely the way to go. And I think I mentioned to you, Joe, that I want wanted to record some more podcasts with you this morning. And we can jump into the next subject since that one pretty much introduces everyone to the Seeulater products. Um you want to give them the website real quick so they can go find this kit and also see the other products you have on your site.

SPEAKER_01 23:46

Yes, it would be www.cu-l-a-t-o-r. Culater.com.

SPEAKER_00 23:53

If you're looking for other podcasts, you can find those on my website by going to swingfullearning.com. On the podcast on the banner, there's a podcast icon. There'll be a menu with over 1900 podcasts for you to download or listen to at your leisure. And if you're interested in the coaching program, you can learn more again at PogGuideCoaching.com. Thanks for listening to this podcast. Have a good rest of your week. God bless.