Joe Laurino on Smart Pool Water Management

Pool water can look crystal clear and still be quietly destroying your surfaces and equipment. We sit down with Joe  Laurino of Periodic Products, known to many pool pros for Culator metal elimination, to break down what “balanced water” really means and why it is the first step in preventing metal staining, corrosion, and costly repairs. If you’ve ever wondered why a heater fails early, why plaster starts to feel rough, or why stains keep coming back, the answer often starts with aggressive water chemistry. 

We get specific about the chemistry that matters most for everyday pool maintenance: keeping pH in the 7.2 to 7.8 range, using total alkalinity as a true buffer, and maintaining calcium hardness so water doesn’t try to pull minerals from plaster. Joe shares a simple, standards-based rule of thumb for water replacement using total dissolved solids (TDS), and we talk about why “old water” can become chemically ugly even when it still looks clear. We also cover when high cyanuric acid (stabilizer) pushes you toward partial draining because it is so hard to remove any other way. 

Then we tackle the big question pool service professionals hear all the time: drain and acid wash, or treat the stains with the pool full? Joe explains why acid washing is a last resort because it dissolves and thins the surface, and he walks through a safer ladder of stain removal options, starting with mild acids like ascorbic and citric, then stepping up only if needed. You’ll also learn why vinyl and fiberglass surfaces often release stains faster than porous plaster. Subscribe for more practical pool chemistry guidance, share this with a pool owner or tech who fights stains, and leave a review with your biggest water balance question.

We talk with Joe  Laurino from Periotic Products about why water balance is the foundation for preventing corrosion, surface damage, and metal staining. We also share a practical way to decide when to drain water, plus a safer progression for stain removal before you ever consider an acid wash.
• why aggressive water dissolves plaster, metals, and even vinyl plasticizers
• how pH 7.2 to 7.8 supports chlorine performance and protects equipment
• why total alkalinity buffers pH swings and helps prevent corrosion
• when TDS rise signals old water and partial draining
• why acid washing thins and roughens plaster and should be a last resort
• how no-drain treatments can lift stains and let you dump metals with the water
• why vinyl and fiberglass stains often remove more easily than plaster
• choosing ascorbic, citric, then oxalic before muriatic acid
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Transcript

Welcome And Today’s Focus

SPEAKER_01 1:03

Hey, welcome to the Best of the Fool Bye Podcast Show. I'll be joined today by Joe Loreno of Theoretic Products and better known for their seal later products for metal elimination and fools. In this episode, Joe is going to talk about balancing your pool and also when to drain a pool. Are you a Fool Service pro looking to take your business to the next level? Join the Pool Guy Coaching Program. Get expert advice, business tips, exclusive content, and get direct support from me. I'm a 35-year veteran in the industry. Whether you're starting out or scaling up, I've got the tools to help you succeed. Learn more at swimming poollearning.com. So on your website, you have I think your website's excellent, by the way. There's a lot of great information there. Thank you. And on there you talk about balancing your pool. And I really like the chart you have there on your website as far as balancing the pool water. And why is it important, you know, I guess I'm going a little bit back here. Well, why is it important to balance your pool in the first place to, you know, as far as metal and staining go?

Coaching Program Invite

SPEAKER_00 2:07

Well, the the balanced water chart actually came from the from what is what is now PHTA website and from basically the standards, the ANSI standards for the public pools. And the purpose of that is to make sure that the water is not aggressive. Water is a very aggressive material. So things will dissolve in water.

Why Balanced Water Matters

SPEAKER_00 2:30

So if if the water doesn't have enough of something, it will actually dissolve that material to get it in. So if in the absence of sufficient calcium hardness and carbonate alkalinity, the water will get it from the plaster surface. It'll actually dissolve the plaster surface until it's satisfied with enough calcium and with enough carbonate. If you have a vinyl liner pool and you there isn't enough carbonate alkalinity, you'll actually take the plasticizer out of the vinyl liner and you will see wrinkles in that liner because that water is aggressive. Years and years ago when I was working in the hospital laboratory, we used to distill our water and put it in and basically store it on the roof. So you make a still, you distill it, put it on the roof, and we we'd have stainless steel tubing going throughout the hospital lab, and we would just turn on a tap. Well, that water was so aggressive that it it actually ate through the stainless steel. And we had to go to a regular system using plastic PVC piping and Teflon piping. So don't actually fool yourself. Water is very aggressive. So the purpose of balancing water is to is to make sure that your water is not aggressive and not corrosive, and that keeps your equipment in check. It also is important for alkalinity because alkalinity is actually buffering the water. And it's important that that you maintain the pH between 7.2 and 7.8. And that's for two things. One, it's for chlorine, so that chlorine can be active in terms of doing what it needs to do. But then the second thing is that if the if the pH goes below seven and you have any metal present, it'll start to corrode and actually actually dissolve the metal. So people that have gas-fired water heaters, if they let that pH go down below seven, they'll often have a very expensive repair on their hands, having to replace that heater core in that in that pool heater. So the one thing alkalinity does, carbon and alkalinity, is it actually allows you to buffer that pH so that small changes of adding your chlorine or your acid or even sitting out in the air will not cause drastic changes in your pH. So it's pH, alkalinity, hardness, and then of course TDS and temperature are the main factors when we talk about that.

SPEAKER_01 5:02

Yeah, and I think you know that's awesome to have that information available to whoever wants to go to your website and see that. And I think getting educated on balancing your pool is, of course, the primary, and any pool service professional should know what a balanced pool water looks like, the LSI chart and all of that is important. I think another question question, sorry, another question I get is when should I drain the customer's pool? When is this metal treatment going to work? You know, how do I know the balancing point? Like, is it better to drain this customer's plaster or Pebble Tech pool and acid wash it? Or can the seal later products remove the metals without me draining the pool? Is there a way to tell when you're at that point?

SPEAKER_00 5:47

Well, there's there's really, yes, there is, and there's a couple of hints that I'll put in there. So according to the according to the codes, when your TDS, which is the amount of material dissolved in your water, all right, solids, solids dissolved in that water, when it's 1500 ppm over where you started.

When Draining A Pool Makes Sense

SPEAKER_00 6:09

So that's after you balance that water, and if it's a salt system, when you put the salt in that pool. So you take a TDS reading, and then when that gets 1500 ppm above that reading, that tells you you need to dump out that some of that pool water. It's that pool has got other stuff in it. It's not an absolute marker, it's what we call a surrogate marker. Because in addition to all the ions and other stuff that's dissolved in there, you'll also have organic byproducts from the chlorine disinfection in there. And it's getting old water and it's kind of ugly looking water. It may it may look clear, and but it's we call it ugly water. So we tell people to dump out some of that water to lower to lower the TTS. So basically, that's really the the absolute number, and it's in the it's in the public building, I should say it's public pool codes, that it's 1500 ppm, but I like to apply that to the residential pools because after all, the codes don't know, or I say the water doesn't know whether it's in a residential or public pool. So if if you know the standards good enough for the public pool, we should look at those as really good targets for the residential pool. And then to kind of address your question about, well, what do I do? Do I drain the pool or do I do I acid wash it? Uh when you acid wash it, what you're doing is you're actually dissolving the surface of that of that pool. So you make it thinner than it actually was when it's on, and and you'll make it uh you'll make it rougher. So I would suggest doing two things. One, try the no-stain treatment first, right? Before you start washing that with acid, muriatic acid, you know, try while the pool is filled, putting in ascorbic and citric. If you're intent on dumping out the pool water, what you've done is you've taken the stains and you've dissolved the metals and you put them in the water. Well, you dump the water, you dump away the metals, right? So you can actually achieve the results of that acid wash potentially without having to harm the surface of the pool. So for the few dollars it would take you to do a no-drain

Try No-Drain Stain Removal First

SPEAKER_00 8:21

stain removal treatment, if you're intent on dumping that water out, go ahead and do that. That way you may be able to not have to acid wash that pool, which is kind of like, you know, if if you will the last resort. And then, you know, what's going to determine whether or not you dump the pool out is what else is in there. If if there's a lot of stabilizer in that pool, there's a lot of cyanuric acid in that pool, there's no good way to get it out. So if it's causing you problems, uh chances are your TDS is well over 1500 ppm over what you started. You probably need to dump out some of that water. Caution your, you know, the you know, the listeners, and obviously the the professionals know this, you don't want to dump all the water out of your pool because that water is could be holding that pool in the ground. And if you dump out all the water and all that weight, you may pop your pool out of the ground, which is a very expensive outcome. You don't want to, you you you don't want to do that. So again, make sure that you dump out only a small portion of the water at a time, fill back with fresh water, and then you know, treat the pool that way. So definitely if you're if you're unsure, hire a professional who knows what they're doing or and or call an expert in, because there are people that specialize in this.

SPEAKER_01 9:59

And I think we should caution them too about draining a vinyl or fiberglass pool all the way down, too, because that can cause lots of problems with the liner and with the fiberglass pool. You know, if there's a drop in fiberglass pool, that could cause some problems with the walls collapsing in there too. So wouldn't recommend draining all those down either. And I noticed just real quick something I just thought about. The asorbic acid treatment seems to work really well on the vinyl and fiberglass pool. Is there a reason why the asorbic acid treatment works so well on those surface types?

SPEAKER_00 10:30

Yes. There's and it's really a chemical reason. The the stain tends to get into the plaster surface. There are pores in that surface. So the the metals kind of get into that pore. And uh because you may have some scaling that goes on, you actually calcify over it. So you you have a much more imperfect surface, which is a better hiding place for the metal. So it's harder for the chemicals to get in, and it's obviously harder to treat an older stain on on a plaster surface because of the calcification that happens. When you deal with uh with a with a polymer surface, which is an organic polymer, be it fiberglass

Why Smooth Surfaces Clean Easier

SPEAKER_00 11:16

or with a vinyl liner, it's a very, very smooth surface that doesn't have pockets. So it's very easy to remove uh the you know, remove stains from those surfaces, easier than from a plaster surface. So we use ascorbic, which is kind of like the weakest acid. Then we go with citric that's a little stronger. If those don't work, we go with oxalic acid, which again is not a food product. It's a it's a one that you have to be very careful with. You have to wear gloves and a goggle, be really careful with uh with that material. But and then those are all done with the water in the pool, and then we go with a very strong acid, myriatic acid or hydrochloric acid, to actually wash, do an acid wash treatment of the pool. So we kind of go up in our acid strengths to remove those stains. But I always tell people if you can get it off with a weaker acid like ascorbic or citric, it helps to preserve the surface of that pool.

SPEAKER_01 12:14

Yeah, I think that's an important point there. So, you know, in wrapping this up, I think the C later products are highly effective. I've tested them, I've I know they work in real-world experience out there. I've also talked to experts in the field about them when I first started using them to say, hey, you know, this product is it is it legitimate? You know, and everyone I've talked to, from Taylor to you know, Bob Lowry, have confirmed that this product works. And I think one way that you set your company up apart from others is that you're not just a storefront selling your products, but you're also educating the pool professional and the homeowner on how to use the product, when to use the product, how to identify the stains. And so you're not just

Picking The Mildest Effective Acid

SPEAKER_01 12:55

like selling a product and giving to somebody and say, hopefully it works for you. You're actually educating the people who are using your product so that it is going to have the best results out there with the product. So I think the website that you've mentioned is a great resource for the Pool Pro and the homeowner, regardless if they get the product or not, they have that information available. And I think that's one thing that's unique about Culator is that you're not just a storefront selling products like other websites. Great.

SPEAKER_00 13:27

Well, well, thank you. Yeah, we we went at it at a different way. I do a lot of education in the industry. I I give a lot of seminars, I you know, serve on a lot of committees, and it's important to, you know, I can I can solve the problem, but if I can teach you how to solve the problems, then you're out there and you're doing much, much more than I could individually. So we set the company up, at least the the pool aspect uh website, to really educate the pool service professional and the customer, the homeowner, the pool owner, as to how to deal with these issues and the importance of balanced water and and and metal staining and and other things and you know the importance of pool standards and codes and why it's important to hire the professionals

Education, Support, And Closing

SPEAKER_00 14:12

to do this.

SPEAKER_01 14:13

And I think the podcast recordings have really helped educate those listening that the metal stain removal process is not something that you should be afraid of. It's something that you should approach with the right knowledge base, of course, but it's something that's definitely doable. And removing stains is something that can be achieved if you have the right knowledge and use the product in the correct method.

SPEAKER_00 14:35

Absolutely. I think uh I think podcasts, especially in the last year or so, have been an incredibly valuable resource for us to educate as kind of the the if if you will, traditional means through uh you know in-person seminars have not been able to be held. I think I think the podcasts have been a great way to get to your customers, to your listeners, and I want to encourage you to continue, and I'll be more than happy to come on uh whenever you want me to to answer any questions.

SPEAKER_01 15:05

Yeah, I appreciate that, John. I thank you for the time today to do these recordings, and I think it's gone a long way in helping those who are dealing with staining and metal issues to kind of know what they're looking at and and kind of how to approach it in uh the best way possible, and using the sealator product, of course, to remove the metals from the pool.

SPEAKER_00 15:25

Okay, well, thank you very much. It's uh been a pleasure to to speak with you and with your listeners today on all these topics. And again, we're we're here to answer the questions. So email us, call us, and we'll be happy to address issues.

SPEAKER_01 15:41

And if you're looking for more podcasts, you can find those by going to my website, swing for learning.com. On the banner, there's a podcast icon. Click on that, and over nineteen hundred podcasts will be available for you to listen to at your leisure. And if you're interested in the coaching program they offer, you can learn more at poolguycoaching.com. Have a great rest of your week and God bless.