Blurring Boundaries

Rerelease: How Do Society's Body Expectations Affect Us Today? With Joanna Sitanari S1 | E7

• India Harrison • Season 1 • Episode 7

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0:00 | 40:11

This episode was first released in April 2021.

India chats with Joanna discuss the topic of body image, and how society can shape the way we think about ourselves. In this episode, they consider what role social media plays in influencing people's body image; what they think is the best way to build a more positive relationship with yourself and your body; and how social expectations affect many people in society today.


Guest: Joanna Sitanari

Logo Art: Catrin Harrison 

Music by: Aleks Filipiak

SPEAKER_00

Just a warning before we start, this episode contains mentions of eating disorders, body dysmorphia, and mental health issues. So if you think this might affect you, please feel free to listen to another one of our previous episodes instead. We would also like to let you know that we're aware that everyone's relationship and journey with their body is different, and that this episode is just a discussion of our personal experiences. If you feel like you need some help or support in relation to any of the themes mentioned in the podcast, I've left some links in the description below. So feel free to check them out in your own time. And without further ado, we hope you enjoy the podcast.

SPEAKER_01

I feel like I'm literally like the female Gandhi sometimes. Can't we delete that in?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, go on. Welcome to a new episode of Blurring Boundaries, the podcast where we talk about anything controversial or avoided. Joanna's trying not to laugh. We're gonna be talking about body image. It was Jo's idea, and I will introduce you to Joanna Sitinari. Did I say that right? Yeah, perfect. Um, she's one of my colleagues in work, and she had the great idea that we could talk about this topic. So, do you want to introduce yourself a bit more?

SPEAKER_01

Uh yeah, not really sure what to say. My name is Joanna. I'm doing business management at uni. Um, I just love this topic because I feel like it's something that everyone resonates with, even if they don't really read much too like too much into it. So I thought it'd be a good idea to speak to India about it because I think it interests both of us, and I love what she's doing with these podcasts. I think it's amazing. Um, yeah, not really many interesting things to talk about right now. I'm in a uni crisis, so it's all I can think about.

SPEAKER_00

Oh god, I really feel for you a year ago, bloody hell. That was not a good time.

SPEAKER_01

Third year, mental health is fucked.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, literally. Literally, that's why procrastination reached the level that I made a podcast. So you know what I mean.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, was it this time last year that you started doing it?

SPEAKER_00

It was this time last year. I think probably that was when the idea started happening.

SPEAKER_01

At least you're doing a good thing. I mean, I've just been upstairs with my flat mate Fraser for the past half an hour. He's been showing me TikToks that he's been making of himself and he's got an essay during two days. The boy has not started it, he's not done a thing.

SPEAKER_00

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_01

So yeah, at least something good is coming out of your.

SPEAKER_00

I mean, you never know, he might make some money out of it.

SPEAKER_01

I mean, don't encourage him.

SPEAKER_00

So, anyway, I'm yeah, I mean, with most people who suggest topics, this I think this is a really interesting one to talk about. And I wanted to ask you first, why did you want to talk about it and what's your like personal experience with it?

SPEAKER_01

I've never really had a like a very healthy relationship with my body, and I've only just started to come to terms with it recently, or just like just by opening up my social media a little bit more to like influencers who actually are influencing me in a positive way, like promoting body positivity, and I don't know, I think we're so consumed with the social media world and you know, people editing photos, and we forget as well on Instagram, a lot of people they are obviously just showing the audience their like the aspects of their life that they want you to see, they want you to see them happy, obviously. Like when they're having a little episode or they're not very happy in themselves that day, they're not really gonna talk about it, are they? They're not gonna post about it, so you only see the positive sides, and I think you get really consumed with what they provide for you, and you start to think, Oh, why isn't my life like this every day? And I think it was about when I started to realise these things, probably like this time last year when lockdown first started. I literally just lost it. I cleared my whole social media feed, got rid of any models, yeah. Um, even like fitness pages and stuff. Obviously, like you follow them for inspiration, but then all your feed gets consumed with these people with like amazing bodies. Well, bodies that I desire. I wouldn't say amazing because every like everyone's body is amazing, but it's just hard, like it just when they collect your data and your cookies and everything, and they personalise your feed, and it's just like I don't need to see this every second of the day because obviously I'm having a bad day today, I'm a bit lazy today, I don't want to see this and feel bad about myself, and I think we also my eating habits used to be really, really bad, and we all normalise it as well at this age. We normalise the way we were like six or seven years ago, like when I was 15, 16, I would say looking back, it could have been like a mild eating disorder or like body dysmorphia or something. I was eating like half a bagel a day and was was full up and would look in the mirror and see my body as fat and just cry every single day. Wake up, look at my body, cry, and just be so sad, and not even it got to a point where it was like I wasn't even starving myself, like my body just was so like unhappy deep down that that half a bagel was enough. And I honestly have repressed that so much because it wasn't even like a particularly traumatizing time, but I do look back and I'm like that is so normalised, and I know that like a lot of people, girls that I I'm friends with as well, like we all resonate with that stuff, like we talk to each other about it quite often, and we're just like, Yeah, man, that was a fucked up time, but it didn't feel like it, so yeah. I guess I just kind of wanted to talk about that stuff because it's personal to me, and I want people to realise that that stuff isn't normal because I normalised it for six-seven years of my life. I've only just started to realise now that that was weird.

SPEAKER_00

It's so crazy how like deep it goes, isn't it? Because I I think not not quite as serious as what you've mentioned, but I also feel like I've had a similar thing where you normalise it so much that you think it's it you think it's fine. For instance, like I always think of myself as having like quite a healthy relationship to food, but I remember at one point like quite a lot of things, like running twice or three times a week and then getting in the shower and feeling hungry, and then being like, no, no, I'll leave it another hour or two because I know I remember learning in biology like how metabolism works. I know that if I leave it another few hours, it will be burning the fat in my body, so I'll just leave it another. And then after a while of doing that, I wasn't hungry after going for a run, and I remember having a shower and being like, Oh yeah, I don't feel hungry now, like this is great.

SPEAKER_01

And you're kind of yeah, you're praising yourself, but it's actually so messed up. Like if you're hungry, have the food.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, exactly. And so many like fitness people say you should um eat like is it protein or something to like re-revitalize your body in a way to help build the muscle that you've just like you know been using. Or like once I remember as well, like deciding for some reason I wasn't gonna eat chocolate, I'll just see if I can do it, and just not eating or or sugar in general.

SPEAKER_01

Playing games with yourself, like for why? Yeah, food is so nice, you need to enjoy the simple things of life, especially now with lockdown. The only I mean na not now, but I'd say the peak of it. We were only getting pleasure from food and drink. Yeah, and I think people are probably feeling so insecure about I don't know the weight that they've put on, but just embrace it. That just shows that you are enjoying your food. Do you know what I mean? Like you'll get back into the swing of things if that's really what you desire in the end, but just enjoy your food, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

I think as well. The fact that food and weight are the two things that we use to gauge health. I think it's really interesting. I've been kind of understanding more about the BMI recently and how doctors use the BMI to see if you're healthy or not, to to kind of like gauge how healthy you are or not. Is that the one when they they look at your body fat? It's body mass index. Yeah, I think it's something to do with your height and your weight and something like that. But I found out, um, I think I was listening to a podcast. I actually think you mentioned you listened to it Jimmy Lajamil's IWA. Yeah, she's so good. She's amazing. I mean, wow, but one of the podcasts I listened to, uh well, quite a few of them are about body positivity, but somebody was mentioning that the BMI was created by, firstly, I mean this is gonna sound like a broken record story now because you've heard it so many times, but a white, straight European guy who why did he I don't even know, but he wasn't even a biologist yet. I think he was a mathematician and he only used Scottish and French men or something like that. White Scottish and French men, right? Yeah, I can see you laughing, like it's ridiculous. And now we use that calculation to know whether we are healthy or not.

SPEAKER_01

And the fact is I mean, have a bit of fucking diversity, like everyone's metabolism is so everyone's metabolism is so different. How have you just picked that group?

SPEAKER_00

Literally, I mean it was, I think it was something ridiculous like 200 years ago, and everyone was like, that's ridiculous. And then I think something like 50 years ago, some GP came up and was like, I'm gonna use this, and then it suddenly became popular for no reason. Like there wasn't really a reason. I think.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, so wait, has it not been developed at all?

SPEAKER_00

No, so it was I think it was like created in like a research paper in like 200 years ago. And I mean don't quote me completely on it, but yeah, I'm gonna hold you to this. Everyone's gonna go around and research and be like, you're completely wrong. But it was definitely just done by a m mathematician. I think he might have been a phys um a physics guy as well. Physics guy, so scientific, but you know what I mean. And he definitely just used white European men, and I mean just the fact that it's just men, everyone knows that women have more fat than men to start with. Yeah. And then if you're talking about people who aren't white, there are certain groups of people who either have more or less fat or have different body shapes. You know, there's just a million things to go into, aren't there? Like, yeah, it's just all bollocks, isn't it? But you get what I mean in terms of like just weighing yourself or just the way you look, being how how healthy you are.

SPEAKER_01

Going back to what you were saying about BMI, I tried something this time last year um at the beginning of lockdown called macro tracking. Uh, I don't know if you know what it is, but I saw it on social media from Louise Thompson. I heard of it before, it's been around for years, but I've never actually like gone ahead with it. Um, and she's from Maiden Chelsea, and she's got like an incredible lifestyle and fitness these days, um, and she's got good muscle, and I wanted to build muscle, so I thought might as well try. And I think it's personalised to you, so depending on your body type or your body shape, you have a certain amount of carbohydrates, protein, and fat intake each day to kind of like build the amount of muscle that you want to build at the end. Um, and I think I needed about 120 grams of protein a day. And if you know me, you know I'm literally a pasta queen, like I don't get much protein at all. So for me, that was quite a hard goal to hit. So I'd either eat a shit ton of food that I wasn't used to, or I'd have like two or three protein shakes every day, which might be normal for some people, but like it's just not for me, and it was so heavy on my body. Like, the powders I don't think are that good for you. It's better to have the natural foods, which sometimes I wouldn't even be able to do because it's like too much for my stomach. So I'd end up like throwing up a little bit sometimes, and like there'd sometimes be days where like I would eat too much chocolate or like fatty stuff, so my percentage of fat that day would be too high. So then the next couple days after, I would just work on like eating less and less fat to balance it all out, and it sounds so complicated and so ridiculous, but I think in the past, if you've had a bad relationship with your body and you see something that's working because it did work, as in it sped up my muscle building a hell of a lot, which is why I think I got quite obsessed with it and quite consumed by it because I saw it working and would end up just punishing myself when I had a cheat day because I'd be like, Joanna, like what are you doing? Like, this is what like going so well. So I think if you I think it does work for some people, and if it works to you, that's great, but that and calorie tracking and stuff like that, I would completely avoid if you have a bad mental state of mind about your body and you easily get obsessed with stuff because that is me, and like that's my advice from my own experience.

SPEAKER_00

Fair play to you that you like went and deleted everything because I feel like it would be such an effort to go and do that.

SPEAKER_01

But I've also been trying to do that on my social media, you know, like just you need to end your because like you will feel so much more at peace with yourself because you're just you're you're you, yeah, you're a unique person. You don't need to be to detoxify your relationship with your body. You just you just need to cleanse everything that is making you sort of doubt the skin that you're in. Because we forget that everything, well not everything, but a lot of things are edited.

SPEAKER_00

So many things edited, and what I find as well is the most important thing to remember with social media, or any of these they come back to money, you know, all these people are doing this because somebody's paying them.

SPEAKER_01

But I feel I feel like it's a bit of a snowball effect. Like, I would say, even not necessarily us, but people like us, just like normal working human beings, do the same. Because they use those influences and those models and those people editing those pictures as a sort of unhealthy template of what we should look like. Because obviously, all everyone's all about put body positivity these days, but I mean, even I would admit like you always look at someone and just be like, Oh my fucking god, I wish I had that about her, I wish I had that about her, and it becomes an effect of like then we'll look at our pictures and we'll be like, What if my waist was cinched in a little bit this way, or like, what if my skin colour was like a little bit darker in this way, and then we do it, not not we, but like as a community, yeah, and it just ends up spiralling. But like, I feel like it's all a trend. Like, the reason I was in such a bad way when I was a bit younger is because the trend at the time was thigh gap and like a straight figure, yeah. And I it was genetically impossible for me to get that, like it was literally impossible, but then now look, now it's like hourglass figure, big bum, smaller boobs, small waist, like that is the societal trend. And imagine all of us just seeking validation all this time and like following the trend. We would literally be a fucking mess. Like, imagine we were trying to keep up with those trends all the time. Imagine there was no social media, no nothing, and we actually just lived our life. How great would that be?

SPEAKER_00

I wonder as well though, because obviously this is this is a thing that's kind of become a lot more prevalent, like a lot worse over the past, especially since technology and social media and all that. But I wonder, like, what the because like fashions have always come in and gone out. I always like think of like people going on about how Marilyn Monroe was like the icon during her time, like of her body figure, but then like years earlier somebody else was a different figure, you know, and you've always had people who are kind of like these idols or whatever, or figures of like what your body wants to be like. I don't know if you've seen this like this series on um on YouTube where they like do a timeline and they show like pictures or like videos of people and how they would have looked at the time or like what the ideal would have been like at the time. And it's crazy, it's really interesting, it's it's quite like a quick thing, it's not anything like super scientific, but it's like really interesting how like fashions, fashions in clothes, but fashions in body types as well. Like completely change. But I mean that's exactly what it is. Like sometimes people are gonna be seen as really beautiful in one way, and then ten years later they're completely different. Um, one thing that on Jamila Jamil's podcast, she always says that when she was growing up, heroin chic was the thing. What's that? Just really like skinny, just literally just no boobs, no bum, plank, like that's the thing, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

That used to be um like what a lot of people wanted to be like. Um same with Victoria's Secrets models.

SPEAKER_00

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_01

I'm not sure about now, I think it might be a bit better now. But a few years ago, they were they were on literally like cigarette diets.

SPEAKER_00

It's crazy. And you you look everyone looks at these people like whether it's social media, whether it's models or whatever, and they're like, I really want that, I really want that. But often, like what I've come to think recently is like think of those women, or not only women, obviously, it affects men too, but the fact that they probably are not living their best lives either. They are all being affected by exactly the same things that we are affected by. They are just putting out what they want everyone to see because that's what they're being paid to do and that's what their job is, kind of thing. But like, can you imagine, like you said, being a Victoria secret model, all you're doing is smoking cigarettes a day, probably eating less than half a bagel.

SPEAKER_01

Your quality of life, yeah, is just gonna be. I can't imagine.

SPEAKER_00

Or if you're a social media star and all your life revolves around taking good pictures of you looking good, and then one day you realize that oh, maybe you're in a certain part of your period cycle and you're you're a bit bloated around the stomach, and that's just gonna affect you for the next week because you need to upload photos and look good, you know? And I think with women as well, it's even more unattainable because obviously we have periods and the cycles make your body change during the month, like quite a bit.

SPEAKER_01

Drastically as well, really drastically, like me before my period and me during my period are two completely different women.

SPEAKER_00

Like in so many different ways: personality, body shape, like everything, split personality, like no, it is weird though, because I just so many times I've like put my jeans on one day and be like, wow, these fit so well. This is how I've always wanted to like my jeans to fit. I feel great. The next morning you wake up and you put your jeans on, you're like they don't even they don't even shut, like you know, it's like right why does this happen to us? I question myself on a daily basis.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, oh man. Nah, but at the end of the day, like I feel like sometimes it does come down to like subconsciously seeking validation, and like everyone's always gonna have something to say, whether it be because they want to say it or to mask their own insecurities. Like, everyone's always gonna have an opinion, so you might as well just it's all about acceptance, just accept it, accept the way you feel, accept the way you look and the way you are, and just literally embrace it and just fuck everyone else. I know it's easier said than done, but like imagine everyone looked the same, and ever like all these qualities that we wanted from all these women, like us two personally, because obviously we know that um men and like a lot of other people feel the same way, but for us as women, like when we see these models and we look for things within their body image or their face or whatever. If we actually if every single woman felt the same and every single woman looked like that, that is just no variation. We're literally human entities, like we're we're beings, we're obviously all gonna look different, and we're all from different backgrounds, and we should just vibe with that. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. You know, Geordie Shaw. Yeah. Um, so me and my sister like were watching it during lockdown, and we actually started to get quite sad because you see how they like evolve surgery-wise. Like, I'm not opposed to surgery like at all. Like, if you want to do it, do it. I I would like even maybe one day myself, like I didn't have any sort of direction with it, but yeah, whatever, each to their own. But a lot of them have been through like quite a lot on the show. Like, a lot of it has come from men actually just like making them feel so horrible about themselves that they've got so much surgery now that they actually all look the same. I have noticed that, yeah. Face-wise, stomach-wise, like they literally are like clones of each other.

SPEAKER_00

It's like the lips and the nose and the cheeks and the forehead, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and it just makes me so sad. Like, just I understand so much like how it feels to like be insecure about yourself, and sometimes you feel like you can't escape your skin, but you just sometimes need to realize like you're such a like cool person, you're such a sick human being, like you don't need all of this. Obviously, this might be a bit too much for some listeners, but I think it's nothing's too much for it as well. A lot of porn stars have had like a lot of like reconstructive, constructive like surgeries and stuff. Obviously, like men, a lot of men watch porn, but I know a lot of I mean I do. So many women do as well. It's such a common thing, and it's like to be, but it shouldn't be, like, it's just life, isn't it? But um, sometimes like you're watching it and you're like looking at like certain body parts and you're just like, is mine normal? Like it's something that we've never touched upon before, like when we were a young guy, I would never like I don't know, look at my vagina or like my vulve area and like examine it. But it's like at some point it gets to a point where you're you're literally so like you're in your own skin and you're literally looking in the mirror, and it's like you find so many different things about yourself that you're like, Oh, this could be changed, this could be changed. Like, and once you overcome one thing, another thing pops up, I feel so true, and it got to a point and I was literally like, Am I really bothering about my vagina right now? Like, is this really a thing? Like, another thing, like, and it's quite a topic that like I don't know, like I feel like probably not a lot of women would be comfortable to talk about, but I think it's quite important too because they're all shaped really differently, yeah. But obviously, we have that as a template on porn and stuff, that like they all look the same, the exact same, and there's no variation, and also probably a lot of men are uneducated about it as well that like they all look different, like they don't all look like what's on porn, like actually, probably none of them do.

SPEAKER_00

You know what? I think this is something that like with vaginas in general, and also you could look at it again with men, this is the same problem as men. Like thinking they need to have like a nine-inch dick or whatever, whatever they think they see on porn all the time, and then women also seeing the same thing. I've heard so many women being like, Oh my god, I didn't realise like I thought I was weird, and some people feeling like there's been a massive rise, I've heard, in women having um reconstructive surgery, like you said, because they think they look weird. Whereas I think I was watching a documentary a few months ago where they literally had like I think it was a screen and it showed like 40 different kinds of vaginas, and they were like, This is just some of the types.

SPEAKER_01

And I literally remember people look at them and you're like, rah, that's mad. Yeah, I've seen like two of those, and one of them is mine. It's interesting what you say about men as well. I was actually gonna say this that like a phrase that I really actually don't like is when people are like about a guy, oh that's such small dick energy. Oh like I really per I personally don't like it because it's like if even if they have a smaller dick, you're literally born with what you're born with. You it's not nice to like make a guy feel insecure, but to be like, oh, small dick energy, oh he had a small dick. Yeah, he had a small dick. It's not the size, it's about what you do with it. Yeah, it's like if we're gonna talk about like literally every single woman on the planet having a different vagina, we forget that like every single man on the planet has a different penis.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, you know, and I just I just think it's absolutely ridiculous that people feel like it's a problem, it's just causing like we were saying about the cycle, it just we need to go back to like the caveman days when everyone was just naked prancing around. Yeah, can you imagine though? I you know, thinking about that, imagine if you like live in like a community where people just don't really wear clothes as much. You would be so much more like aware of your own body because I feel like that half of the problem is that we don't see these things. I mean, this can come back, I've mentioned it so many times. Education in school or out of school, wherever it is, because people don't see this, and they are getting their education from porn or from stupid sites or you know, Facebook or whatever the hell it is. This is why I like Naked Attraction.

SPEAKER_01

Oh my god! It is normal people. That's why it's a really good program because it's different, it's just ordinary people with ordinary genitals, and it just needs you like I think it does slyly spread awareness that programme.

SPEAKER_00

I haven't even thought of it that way because I I've often like why why this is just an excuse for people to see.

SPEAKER_01

Well, my mum thinks it's a load of shit on TV, and it kind of is, but it's I genuinely think it makes you feel more secure in yourself because you're just like, yeah, everyone's different.

SPEAKER_00

And you see so many different kinds of people. It's not just like seeing one big one and one small one, and you're seeing every different kind of everything. Yeah. I'd never thought of it that way but it's not a good thing.

SPEAKER_01

It's quite inspiring that they're able to like take off all their clothes and be judged. Yeah. But I find it really inspiring and like really confident and strong that they can do that.

SPEAKER_00

It's like um when you go to different countries, like certain countries they just like either go topless or completely naked on a beach, and it's just the norm. And it's like, wow. I think that's an interesting time to talk about. You mentioned already a little bit about body positivity, and I'm kind of like torn a little bit with this. Well, firstly, there's I've kind of been hearing a lot recently about the difference between body positivity and body neutrality, kind of like rather than just like jumping from hating your body to like loving your body. I don't actually know what what that is. What is that? Well, I think it's kind of becoming more of a thing now because obviously body positivity is a lot of like love your body, you are beautiful, da da da. And obviously some people just don't feel that. Some people are not possible. Yeah. And I think there's a lot more to do with like just being okay with your body, and even if you don't love your body and you're absolutely like, you know, in love with how you look or how you feel or whatever, just being okay with it and just being like, this is what it is, rather than just constantly having to like, in a way, feeling like, oh, I need to love my body, and then not loving your body, and then punishing yourself because you don't love your body, kind of thing. I think the idea with body neutrality is at least don't hate your body, just be like it is my body is what I am, either it's not going to change or I don't need to change it, even if it's not like the ideal of what I would love to have, kind of thing.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, like it is what it is. There is literally nothing you can do.

SPEAKER_00

I think it's a really interesting way of looking at it because it's like not on either end of the spectrum, it's not like punishing yourself for either thing. I think that is almost better.

SPEAKER_01

It's better what you're saying, the neutrality than to be completely positive all the time because there's more pressure to just always uphold that sort of feeling and thought.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. I think sometimes as well, like with body positivity, you kind of can look at yourself one day and be like, oh my god, I love it, I feel great in myself, da da da. And then the next day when you don't feel like that, it's like, oh why do I feel like that if I changed? Or like you are kind of still reaching for something in a way. In terms of body positivity, I wanted to talk a little bit because I th I've heard recently on a similar note that body positivity started out by fat people, I don't know who's fat women, but just fat people in general loving themselves as they are instead of like being like we have to look like this kind of thing or punishing yourself because you're fat. But then it's evolved, and I think specifically because of social media, it's been picked up by a lot more like influencers, thin white women who've just been like body positivity, even though you know they look perfect anyway, you know, in quote marks. Yeah. Um, and now I've heard that there's another kind of movement because positive body positivity has been taken away from not taken away, but it the the focus has been more than on influencers rather on fat people. They've now created this movement called I think it's fat acceptance or something like that, where it's a lot more about I think the original idea of body positivity and being happy with who you are no matter what, or whatever.

SPEAKER_01

You kind of don't want that taken away from you as a community if you come up with this, and then some influencers are like taking that away and promoting it in sort of the wrong ways. Exactly. But I guess you never really know what's going on beyond Instagram, like we were talking about earlier. So I I guess like they could be they're just influencing it in the wrong way.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Sending out the wrong message.

SPEAKER_00

I think it comes as well back to this whole idea that to be healthy you need to be thin, and the whole fat positivity, or not for I've merged the debts now, but um fat acceptance is more like being fat does not necessarily mean you're unhealthy or you don't exercise. Like, um, who is it? A Lizzo? I know how she's just incredibly amazing, she's so fit. You watch any of her concerts and you're like, wow, like I could not like do the level of like cardio exercise that she's just doing in one like hour show. Yeah, obviously, like lots of people would look at her and be like, She's fat, she's clearly really unhealthy, but it's very clear that she's not. Yeah, she's got a lot of stamina on her, I won't lie. I wanted to talk a bit about mental health and how the how like your mental health it's kind of like a cycle, isn't it? How like you feel shit about your body, you're having bad mental health, but you had bad mental health because you know you feel shit about your body and like da da da da. Yeah, you're so right. Yeah. Have you like experienced well obviously you have experienced it a bit?

SPEAKER_01

Um, I'd say as I've like grown up, it has got a lot better because along with growing up has come like understanding that you're unique and understanding that like you're not alone and all of that shit. Um I think you know the low down. Um when I was younger, I would say my mental health was like off the roof, like so bad just from low self-esteem. Like, I sometimes I wouldn't necessarily want to go somewhere if I thought that like no, actually, I remember um this was when I was 16, I was at a party. Oh god, this is so bad. Um and I was with my boyfriend at the time, and I remember once I tried on you know your waist trainers, the ones that cinch your waist in, yeah, and they're like corsets and they have like boning in them, and they're so bad for you. But obviously, you know, promoted by Instagram models. I was like, Oh, get me one of those. Got it off Amazon for like five quid. Oh my god, and I put it on and I was like, I love what I look in, like how I look in this, but I couldn't wear it under a dress because it would show. So I was like, How am I gonna cinch my waist in? I got cellotape. Oh my god, I got cellar tape and I literally like suffocated my stomach, wrapped cellotate around my waist and just put my dress on top. And I looked in the mirror and I was like, Yeah, bitch, and then I went to the party, and my boyfriend was holding me like by the waist, and he was like, What's this? She just ran home. Um, but yeah, like I do shit like that, like what the fuck was that? Um I actually forgot that happened. Um, but yeah, I would say back in the day it wasn't it wasn't great. Um like I probably wouldn't have gone to that party just with that dress, like I would like without the shit on my stomach. Um, but jet note honestly, as you grow up, you kind of you you you learn to love yourself a little bit, you realise I don't know, you have a wider mindset on the world, you're more compassionate to other people, what they go through. So I think currently, like right now, it's actually alright. I've just kind of got the mindset now of like it is what it is, like it's not gonna affect like it's it's who I am, it's not gonna affect any sort of future relationships. You've just got to kind of learn to hold yourself mental health-wise because it really shows like when your mental health is good, you're literally glowing and it reflects on your like relationships and friendships with like everyone around you, but it's not an easy journey because we you kind of reach that milestone of like, yeah, I'm in a really good place right now, and then you see something that triggers you, for example, on social media, something so small, but not that that would bring everything back up, but obviously that feeling always sits in the back of your mind, so sometimes it does just take something small to kind of make you feel shit again, but it's a journey, in it. Life's not easy, you just kind of gotta learn from everything. And you know, my mental health is good right now, not to say it always like will be in terms of self-love and stuff. Like, I'm sure soon it will just summer, yeah. Um, but you know, it's it's just a process, you know what they all say.

SPEAKER_00

Trust the process, becoming a motivational podcaster, motivational Mondays the Joe.

SPEAKER_01

I think um people need to try to learn to not self-destruct. Like when you're like in a bad mindset because of stuff like this, you do purposely just try to ruin your life. Like, say you're having a shit day because of like the issues we've been talking about, and then you're just like, I'm just gonna binge eat today, fuck it, I don't care anymore, I'm gonna let myself go. You just really gotta not do that, even though, as in no, I've said this wrong. It's fine, it's so fine to have days like that. Yeah, but you've just got to make sure that not every single day is like that. You've really just got to take care of yourself as long as you're actually healthy and like like physically healthy, like, and you're not just eating sugar and stuff all the time, it does really, really reflect on your mental health, I would say. So true. You can't just eat shit every single day for like just every day for the rest of your life because you're having a bad mindset, you need to work on that, you need to accept the feeling, and then you need to work on it, you can't just spiral.

SPEAKER_00

Do you think in terms of obviously now I want to say we're coming to the end of the lockdown, but who the hell is it? Um, but do you think for a lot of people I feel like it's really helped um people to kind of slow down, think more about themselves, what they're doing, how they feel. Um, a lot of people, you know, have stopped, like not stopped wearing makeup, but they feel a lot more comfortable because they just haven't worn makeup and then they've been like, oh, you know what? I'm not ugly, like, you know, I don't need to wear makeup all the time. And and the same with with exercise, either finding a healthy exercise routine or kind of maybe even reducing it. Because I some I think sometimes people get into such I think you can exercise too much really and then put pressure on yourself to keep doing that. And mental health-wise, too, kind of I know a lot of people who've kind of started therapy and stuff during lockdown. Do you think that time this time because you mentioned it like in the past year you feel like you've had a better relationship with yourself and with your body? Do you think that's helped you?

SPEAKER_01

I think yeah, and no, like this lockdown's obviously it's been so like such a long time. I would say it's gone in phases, like first lockdown it really did help me because do you remember there was a lot of um stuff being advertised about like make sure you do one thing for the mind, make sure you do one thing for the soul, one thing for the body every day. It was like way, it was like there was a lot of motivational stuff on the internet about just trying to keep yourself busy when we thought lockdown was short term, and it was like make sure you read a little bit a day, do a little bit of like exercise or a walk or something. So I think at the beginning it really did help me, and I think a lot of people as well to like engage more with their like mind, body, and soul and understand themselves more and stuff, but then I think obviously lockdown two and three has been a bit of a head fuck. Um, so I think, yeah, in some ways it has actually helped me to understand myself more as a person, and a lot of people as well will come out of this um in a crazier different mindset that they had before. I think everyone's gonna be a bit more um compassionate towards others and like appreciative and grateful of everything. Like, I think that is one thing that will come positively out of this.

SPEAKER_00

I wanted to just ask you before we go, if you could kind of say anything to anyone who's who's kind of going through this or feel like they feel like these things are affecting them, like they feel like they're not good enough or whatever. Like, what would you say, or even to your younger self, you know? What would you say?

SPEAKER_01

I'm just gonna give steps, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Oh yeah, that's great.

SPEAKER_01

Alright, step one, clear your social media, follow only I mean you know Marlin from Love Island. Yes, incredible women. Follow her on Instagram, follow obviously I Wei, Jamila Jamil, follow people that are gonna positively impact your life, add value to your life, help you. Because at that age I didn't have stuff like that. Clear your feed of all of these people that you aspire to be and stuff because it's all just toxic. Like, yeah, they're beautiful, but so are you. Thirdly, this is the hardest thing. You just literally have to accept. You have to, it's a journey, but you just have to be mindful, love yourself, do self-care activities, read a book, do some meditation, do a face mask, paint your nails, watch some friends or whatever you like to watch, and just like take care of yourself and treat yourself well. Like, eat soul, good soul food that's gonna help your mental health. Exercise if that's gonna help your mental health, and just realise that, like, there is I don't know how many people, seven billion people in the world. Every single person looks different, every single person's mind is wired differently, every single person has a different body shape, and realize that you are unique, and like you just need to literally just accept your journey and just know that you're loved. That's it, really. Wow, did that touch you? That really touched me. I feel like a way with words. Yeah, I feel like I'm literally like the female candy sometimes.

SPEAKER_00

We didn't do that in the podcast. Yeah, I don't put the title Joe the female candy. Inspirational credits left, right, and centre. You know what? Be thanking me in ten years' time when I started your career. Was there anything else that you kind of wanted to say, or anything you just felt like you want to get out?

SPEAKER_01

Obviously, us as women speaking about personal experience, that's why this whole podcast is, you know, women orientated, but we uh obviously understand thoroughly that men get it a lot as well, and not worse, I would say they get it, they probably sometimes feel worse because men are less inclined to like actually talk about it. I mean, me as a like in my house, especially since lockdown, we've been really open with our feelings. We've literally anything we feel, uh be it happy, sad, anxious, joyful, whatever, we'll literally speak it out loud, even if it's stuff about this. So I think it's really we're lucky as a house to have that, and I just hope that everyone else does. And if they don't, then know that it's kind of normal to talk about. It kind of helps you in your process of like healing.

SPEAKER_00

I think that's the thing, normalizing it, isn't it? Because the more you normalise it, the more it becomes okay to do it, or at least the more people who do it, maybe other people who felt before that they weren't really very comfortable to do that, then feel that they can. Oh, it's been so great talking to you. Thank you so much for for suggesting the topic. Yeah, it was a lovely chat, India. Lovely chat, as usual. Maybe one day you'll be back on. Say this to everyone, but you know, you're very welcome. Let me know if you get any more ideas. And I'll speak to you soon. Alright, have a lovely day. Have a lovely day. Bye. So we've come to the end of another episode. I hope you enjoyed. As usual, thank you so much to Joanna for joining me, and thank you to everyone else who has made this possible. Alex Filipiak for the intro music, Katherine Harrison for the logo art, and of course, last but not least, thank you to me. And with that, I hope you have a wonderful rest of your day, and we'll see you next time.