A conversation with pianist and composer Sultan Stevenson

Welcome to the latest episode of Harmonious World, in which I interview musicians about how their music helps make the world more harmonious.

It was a great pleasure to chat with pianist and composer Sultan Stevenson, discussing his engrossing new album, El Roi, as well as his nomination as Breakthrough Act of the Year in this year's Jazz FM Awards.

Sultan is out on tour, so do try to catch him when you can. And we're all keeping our fingers crossed for the announcement of the 2025 Jazz FM Awards later in April.

You can also listen to my conversation with sax player Soweto Kinch, who I interviewed at the end of 2023 and who appears on El Roi.

Thanks to Sultan for allowing me to play tracks from El Roi alongside our conversation.

Thank you for listening to Harmonious World. Please rate, review and share: click on the link and subscribe to support the show.

Don't forget the Quincy Jones quote that sums up why I do this: "Imagine what a harmonious world it would be if every single person, both young and old, shared a little of what he is good at doing."

Transcript

Hilary 0:37

Hello and welcome to the latest episode of Harmonious World. My name is Hilary Seabrook, and this podcast is all about interviewing musicians about the music that they're coming up with right now, and how that is helping make the world a little more harmonious. It's all based on a Quincy Jones quote, which goes something like, Imagine what a harmonious world it would be if everyone shared a little of what they're good at. And I think that applies beyond music, but I'm just talking to musicians and those who are involved in music. There are over 275 episodes now online, so do take a look at the back catalogue because there are lots of very interesting people. Today I'm interviewing a very exciting piano player called Sultan Stevenson from London. Sultan's second album, El Roy, is out now. And what you're listening to is the title track. And it's a brilliant trio album with a little bit of additional work from Soweto Kinch on Tennis Snacks and Josh Short on Trumpet and Flugel. And you can listen to the episode that in which I spoke to Soweto Kinch a couple of years ago. I'll put the links to that in the show notes. So I hope you enjoy listening to my conversation with Sultan Stevenson. So welcome to Harmonious World. I'm delighted to be joined by pianist Sultan Stevenson. Thank you for joining me, Sultan.

Sultan 2:20

Oh, thank you for having me, Helpy. Thank you.

Hilary 2:22

That's brilliant. So we're talking mainly about El Roy, but also about your nomination for a Jazz FM Award, which is brilliant.

Sultan 2:32

Yeah, you know, it's it's it's really been it's kind of come out of nowhere, really, because I've I was aware that the awards were kind of put on hold. Well, they had a bit of a hiatus for a couple years, and before um the hiatus, I've always known about them, and I've so many of my teachers have been uh nominated and have won them, such as Bink Golding, Moses Boyd, Gary Crosby, uh Dennis Baptiste, of course, Sweeto, um Lisc goes on, Julian Joseph, um Robin Robin Mitchell. Uh so now to actually be nominated, it kind of came out of nowhere.

Hilary 3:07

So yeah, it's almost like the perfect time for you because you kind of, you know, you're you're over that initial debut stuff, and you're a seasoned performer and a seasoned recording artist now. Oh, yeah. Well, I I love your stuff, and actually I was really pleased when uh when I got the chance this chance to to chat with you because I find your your music, I mean it's kind of got Herbie Hancock in there, it's got but it's very much your own style, isn't it?

Sultan 3:35

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Different jazz vantage points, I guess. So yeah, there's a bit of Herbie, which I try to put in there. There's also quite people always credit me as um sounding a lot like McCoy Tyne, stuffingly in there as well. Um there's there's other kind of bits and bobs as well, uh both compositionally and attempting with the improvisation. Um but I'm really I really like the music to kind of embody a wide range of influences and cultures and styles and uh vantage points, yeah.

Hilary 4:09

Yeah, and um clearly you're influenced by you know other things in in uh in culture because uh there's a reference to Twelve Years a Slave, which is an incredible book, isn't it?

Sultan 4:21

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um there's that, but that's actually um the first track off of the record is a tune called Unspeakable Happiness.

Hilary 4:33

This is the perfect point at which to play an extract from Unspeakable Happiness from El Roy by Salton Stevens.

Sultan 7:47

Um basic synopsis of the book is is that there's this man called Solomon Norfolk Norfolk, um who is a free man, um African-American man, but free in this time of of uh of slavery. And out of his own will, he f is falsely put into slavery and endures all the hardships of slavery for 12 years. And then the point in which we see the line of unspeakable happiness comes at the very end of the book or film, uh, for those who might be more acquainted with the film, um, in which he's he's uh going through his kind of really harsh day-to-day of slavery, and he's finally presented with an opportunity to escape um slavery and to regain his identity, and he describes such an um opportunity as an unspeakable happiness. Um, and that kind of raided me back when I was reading that um reading that book, and I really wanted to create um a sound world or a sound narrative that would explore what it means to experience an unspeakable happiness.

Hilary 9:00

Yeah, and uh it's a fantastic book, isn't it? And obviously the film's really good as well. So so yeah, and it's funny how those things they really speak to you, don't they? And then they can be an influence on a particular track or on your your whole being, really.

Sultan 9:16

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, I mean the there's many uh there's many different influences as uh that as in the literature kind of thing. There's also um, I guess bits of uh John Cole Schrain and uh Herbie Hancock, as you've as you mentioned, I've listened to and have directly uh written compositions just on the inspiration from listening to those different bits of art. So I mean really the in inspiration kind of comes from anywhere, I guess. It can come from literature, it can come from experience, it can come from meeting a person for for the first time, an old friend. Um for me, I I I I try to allow influence to come from everywhere.

Hilary 9:57

Yeah. So three of the tracks are a suite called Those Who Believe, which was originally composed just for the trio, is that right?

Sultan 10:05

Yeah, but absolutely right. It was um that was actually composed back in 2022. So it's really the the order of things is kind of really messed up, I guess. Um, like we we we released the Faithful One album that was in March of 2023 on Whirlwind recordings, and then all the compositions were written kind of from 2020 through till 2022, and then interestingly, we recorded the album that's just come out now, Elroy. That was recorded the same year as the Faithful One album was was released. Um, so it it really, I guess the why I why they're so kind of squished together is is very much intentional. I really wanted the second album to be not necessarily like a new creation, like a new brand new kind of thing. I I really wanted it to be almost like a sequel to the first record or to be a continuation of the first record um in terms of the themes, the style of play and the music, but still also maintain its own sovereignty and um its its own sense of kind of um it's itself and and being a standalone piece of artwork, um piece of pute piece of artistic output for it.

Hilary 11:24

So yeah, and and actually, I mean you're you're too young to sort of have a sort of a back catalogue or something, but sometimes it's interesting to to see where these things come from because in quite often you're you're recording one album and and have already started writing the the the next one because that's the way musicians work.

Sultan 11:48

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean I've I've actually done it. Um I'm actually doing it now. I I I pretty much have finished the next record. This would be the third album. Um and now I'm kind of in the process of of trying to plan out the process um from knowing all the compositions, having them all written down to the eventual release of the compositions, I guess, hopefully next year or something. Um so yeah, you're you're absolutely right. We're always kind of thinking uh multiple steps ahead, really. Uh we don't have to, you know, the times we live in now, it's very it's the information age, and people kind of want things very, very urgently. So I think it's also down to the climate, you know.

Hilary 12:32

Yeah, I think that's true. And also I think that there's something about um being a creative person that that you don't stop. So at some point you have to kind of draw a line in the sand for an album for for a body of work and kind of record it, and that's done. But you know, you're you know, there's always overlap, and there's always pieces that you come back to, aren't there, that you've started and that you you suddenly go, well, there were things in that that I liked, and maybe I can reinvent that.

Sultan 12:59

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely, absolutely. Yeah.

Hilary 13:02

Yeah. Um, so I want to ask you about Jacob and Joel, who are your the your your partners in crime, yeah, your trio. You because you've been together quite a while with them, haven't you?

Sultan 13:13

Yeah, we've been together for we've been playing together for about five years now. It's pretty much five years. Um, I met the I actually met Jacob first because we were we're both beneficiaries of um two programs actually. The first program we um joined, and this is how we met, was called was called the Haringay Young Musicians. Um and this is like a it's the local music service for the borough in which we grew up in Haringay, North London, Northeast London. And it's run by a fantastic gentleman called Peter Desmond, um, who's really, really wonderful, um, has done so much great work for jazz and even just music in general. Um, the past uh probably good 20, 25 years, he ran that um institution. But we met there, we we were doing like the kind of regional big band, um, and you know, we we ready here off and we we've been playing together ever since, and then in 2020, um I met Joel. Joel at the time was at Trinity, Trinity Laban. Um and I can't exact I can't remember exactly how we met, but we we we met somehow, maybe maybe at Giggle or a jam session. I I can't remember. But um I I really loved the way he played and um uh and uh about time I was very happy to be getting a loads of support from Tomorrow's Warriors uh as well, um, as well as also Jazz Refreshed as well. So they were offering me loads of different opportunities to perform in London and actually further afield as well. Um so it really it really became urgent for me to assemble a a group to actually play um repertoires into my own compositions and I specifically chose um John and Jacob and I guess we've been going from shrimp to shrimp to shrimp.

Hilary 15:02

Yeah, and it feels like you've grown up together, doesn't it?

Sultan 15:04

Yeah, it does, it does. I think the first big the first big moment for us was back in 2021, I think it was. It was 2021, or twenty I can't remember. 2021, in which we got this was a really crazy day. Uh I was on the tube somewhere and I got this email. I didn't really recognise the email address. Um it's by a band called Rory Fruit. And it was very simple email, it only had two lines to it. And the email just read, Hi Sultan. Um would you like to open for Billy Cobb at the Jazz Cafe? Best Rory. And it was literally that simple. There's no uh hi-ball as well, blah blah blah blah. It was literally just just that simple. And at first I really thought it was like a hoax or some kind of spam or like uh some kind of hacker or something. Um but it was legit, it was it was it was uh it was an offer and uh we did it and we opened for Billy Cobb back in 2021. But in two days, I think it was like Friday was the first night, and then Saturday was the second night, and that was the real kind of big moment for us. Um, and it really helped our audience as well. I mean, it was a very tough job. It's because like you have an audience that are coming to see this jazz legend, Billy Cobb, and then opening for them is this you know a bunch of unknown young people. Um, so it's actually a very hard task to try and convince these people that yeah, we know your lesson for Billy Cobb is gonna come, but maybe pay attention to see what we have to say, and it worked, you know, we really pulled it off, and um, still to this day. In fact, even uh just two days ago we launched the record, and there was someone who came and said, Yeah, the first time I saw you was like that Billy Cobb thing. So it was a real kind of really, really impactful, meaningful um thing for us three.

Hilary 16:59

I think one of the nice things about jazz, especially, is that everybody knows how hard it is to kind of make a living and to get by. And everybody seems to give everyone else a bit of a hat leg up when they can, you know, right. It's about rise, you know, helping people rise up rather than pushing pushing people down. I mean, that I I suspect that's not always the case, but you know, I think I think it's one of those areas where you know we do all it's part of what I want to do with whole harmonious world is to be finding music that other people, you know, people haven't heard of, or they've just it's just passed them by, you know.

Sultan 17:42

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're absolutely right. I mean, it's you we even see this in terms of like for example, even record labels, like the people that own record labels or that ARs, or even the people that own venues. I so guess I guess this is like the back end of of the jazz business, is like these are the same people that will you see them about on the on the tubes, but on the street, they're not like these kind of high celebrities who live in you know crazy gold mansions or anything. Like everyone is kind of everyone's together for everyone, and everyone kind of knows everyone, so it's one kind of big community. Um, so you're absolutely right, it's like we're all kind of in it for each other, and we're all trying to help out each other.

Hilary 18:23

Yeah, it's it's it's a good thing. So, talking about people helping out, so you got Soweto Kinch helping out on this album, which is it's insane. I mean, he's um I interviewed Soweto. In fact, funnily enough, um, it was uh November a couple of years ago, and I interviewed Christian McBride in person in London and then Soweto on uh on Zoom in the afternoon. And it was like that was my biggest day. That was fantastic. Soweta's such a great guy, isn't he? I mean, as well as being a phenomenal sax player.

Sultan 18:58

Yeah, so Sweeto was a real is real is a massive privilege to have him on the record. Um, and we actually realized when we were recording the album that we do have a very weird connection. Um, in terms of so Sweto's dad was a man called Don Kinch, and Don Kinch is a Barbadian man um who was a playwright and also taught drama at Yui. So this is the University of the West Indies. So my dad went to UI, uh University of the West Indies, and he didn't do drama, he did um politics, journalism, stuff like that. Um but anyway, he chose to do like an optional module of uh drama or something. So it turns out that Sweeto's dad taught my dad when he was at university. Really, really small world. Um but you know, Sweeto is he's he's he's such a privilege to have on the record, such a privilege to play with as well. Um really great energy, really fun, you know, very um encouraging, very dance worth, very youthful as well. Um it was just a real pleasure to have him on the record.

Hilary 20:02

Yeah, fantastic. And then you've got um Trumpet, you've got Josh Short on Trumpet and Google.

Sultan 20:08

Yeah, Josh is um again, someone who's I guess went through the whole conservatory, uh cutting your teeth kind of thing, um, as me. Uh so and I've always been I've always loved the way he plays. Um you know, he has this kind of sense of uh just working with him. He he's very professional, very likes to get something nailed, you know, likes to get the job done, which I really, really love, but also is very um open to different opinions and open to different ways of doing things, and very flexible as well. Um and really good with actually working with the person who he's paired up with in the first record it was Dennis, and the second record is Nan Sweto. So he's very good with actually um being flexible and being almost like a chameleon kind of figure to kind of work out how to work in the musical situation.

Hilary 21:01

That's brilliant, isn't it? Yeah. Uh so you mentioned there you went through the sort of conservatory thing. So how did your musical educate I mean, how how did you start on the piano in the first place?

Sultan 21:12

Oh, great question. Um, I started on the piano. Well, I guess even before that, it goes back to, as I said, my my dad, he's uh of Barbadian origin, and he he used to run a jazz radio show back in my parents' home with Barbados. And we also used to have a Barbados Jazz Festival, which sadly doesn't happen anymore. But what he used to do is he would if he knew that uh I don't know, Bramford Marsales or Winton or Roy Hargrave or Terrence Blanchard or Elena Lyas or someone was coming to the festival, he would get in touch with them or their management and say, Look, I I do a radio show. I don't suppose so and so could spare a couple of of you know an hour or so to come on my show and talk. would quite often do that so he um he built up loads of memorabilia loads of cds as well stories and uh when my parents moved to england to raise me he kept all these things so there was like cds everywhere when I was growing up in the car in the living room in the in every single room in storage everywhere um so growing up I was surrounded with jazz all kinds of jazz Coltrane Roy Hardgrove Kenny G Kenny Garrett um everyone you know uh Jeff Lauber everybody and I guess it maybe prompted me to around the age of seven or eight arts for lessons music lessons but I actually really wanted to learn the saxophone I didn't really want to learn the piano at all because I thought saxophone is kind of cool it has a nice shape it's gold whereas pianos like pianos everywhere and it's kind of so boring and you know I just wanted to learn something a bit cool and original. So I went to my dad and I said I don't suppose you could ask the primary school do you have any piano sorry saxophone teachers or saxophone um saxphones for me to play and he said yeah cool a lot so he asked the school and the school came back saying no we don't have any saxphones or saxophone teachers but we do have piano lessons and we do have um piano teachers to teach him so I regardingly well did the piano went to the piano lesson and said with the with the promise that I would only be really doing piano for like a year and then when I go to secondary school I could likely learn the saxophone. So it was never really my intention to learn the piano. But I went to the first piano lesson and it was like a half an hour lesson and within maybe seven eight minutes I had no intention to learn saxophone at all. I was sold on the piano and kept doing piano lessons in primary school then through to secondary school then as I said probably midway through secondary school I got involved with Tomorrow's Roarriers, the Julian Joseph Jazz Academy as well musicians um also my dad's kind of friends who played um jazz as well um and it was from there I guess it all kind of really evolved um but it was yeah I guess it was really my love of piano and jazz that kind of kept me kept me out of it. Yeah it's funny isn't it when when an instrument just grabs you because I learned I did a bit of piano then I learned the clarinet and then my clarinet teacher went I was getting really bored with it and my clarinet teacher went well here you are here's a saxophone I was like okay I've come home it was like that's it I'm done I still play the clarinet from time to time but it's definitely second oh right that worked yeah yeah but it's funny isn't it like because I think you know all the musicians that I talk to you just have this moment where you just go this is me yeah yeah fantastic and then did you did you go on to uh music college I did I went to the Guildwall School of Music I I got in there probably 2019 I yeah it's 2019 then I graduated in 2023 uh so not too long ago no um that was a great that was a really great time um it was kind of bitter sweet because obviously covet came halfway through sec so halfway through first year covet came but it didn't really affect us too much because we still we still played I mean you know we kind of had to best that's the whole idea of a conservatory course it's all about performance yeah um so we still played quite a lot um I didn't really feel COVID too much in in at the giveth all my time um but anyway I had really great teachers I had um people like Simon Passell uh Robert Mitchell Barry Green um Gareth Williams uh we had great masterclasses we had like Wynner Scroffy he came in one time Larry Grenaday came in um Joshua Redmond came in as well so we had some really really great opportunities uh great time and yeah I mean I I learned uh so much from the aforementioned people yeah and it sounds like you've had some amazing uh experiences of of of things like tomorrow's warriors and all of those things because they they just they just open the doors don't they to different styles and you know different different interpretations of things and you know all of that. Yeah yeah I I probably learned but I I almost I almost call it my my first university was actually tomorrow's warriors and um I it it meant by the time that I got into conservatory I already kind of knew some stuff and I guess more so on the actual playing experience side I knew quite a lot because I I guess also I'm very fortunate to live in London like the so like these programs are very prevalent in London whereas if you go further up north in this country or even further down south um there's not as many kind of really great programs for people playing jazz.

Hilary 26:54

Yeah I guess that was really advantageous for me it really kind of filled in the gap of um acquainting me with people my age who were interested in after the same thing as I was yeah yeah definitely um so what's next so you had the album launched I think last week and that was a huge success by the looks of it I've seen the photos.

Sultan 27:19

Oh yeah no it was it was it was amazing it was really I mean I'd uh it's it's it's a really full it's it's a full cycle moment as well because obviously Tomorrow's Royals is based at the South Bank Center. So I've been going to the South Bank for years and years and years and now to actually play in the South Bank Center um it's a real kind of surreal kind of experience really um so it was a massive it was nice to reunite the whole band as well usually we play in trio but for that um concert obviously we we honored the album and played with Sweeto and Josh as well so we actually did the whole album in track order so it was like people were literally listening listening to the actual record which was really quite special. But I guess what what's next is we have a few shows and in England I think we have something first one up is in Nottingham and then we're in Cambridge and Leeds. And then in June we're super excited and we're actually off on a European tour so we our first stop is in the Czech Republic then we have another gig the next day in a different city in Czech Republic in Prague this time a place called Jazz dock and then from there we go on to Cologne in Germany and the day after then the day after that we're in so many days I can't remember um we're in Hamburg that's it we're in Hamburg. Oh lovely and then we go across to Poland to play this really great venue called Jasmine in in Warsaw and then we go back to Germany to do a show in a place called Bingen which isn't too far from Frankfurt then after that we go to Munich to a place called Unterfahrt Jazz Club and then we go on to Stuttgart and then we go on to a place called Rattlingen and then we finally go to Paris to play um Jup de Lombards in Paris and then we fly home and then in August we kind of kick things back up and go to Bulgaria Sophia then the day after in Bansco for the Bansco Jazz Festival um and then we go to Wales of all places for the Brecon um Jazz Festival which is really super exciting. And then in October we are supposed to play the King's Place in London.

Hilary 29:42

Oh that's a fantastic venue.

Sultan 29:44

Yeah it's a lovely it's it's it's a real honour to play that venue.

Hilary 29:47

And then I don't know what's happened in December all that yeah yeah it's very good but I'll make sure that in the show notes I put all the links the links to to that because uh my listeners are all over the world so you know I'll get them to look out for you because because it sounds like that's gonna be those are going to be really great gigs.

Sultan 30:10

Yeah yeah yeah I mean it's we're we're super excited I mean it's it's it's really a privilege to play outside of the UK that's always a massive kind of even just the just the excitement of actually stepping on a plane and um going to the venue then going to the hotel or checking in and then going back to the venue to get ready and then you play the concert you set hoping for some vinyl and stuff and then you you go back to the town even just that kind of buzz of the day is really really absolutely and you'll start to get used to having a Sharpie in your hand all the time to sign the albums and stuff you know yeah yeah yeah oh that's fantastic.

Hilary 30:46

It's a real pleasure to talk to you Sultan and I look forward to the next album when that comes out. Yeah thanks it won't be too long it's such a pleasure to talk to you oh thanks thanks to having Hillary thanks yeah it was such a pleasure to talk to Selton Stevenson there about his album Elroy I hope you enjoyed listening in what you're listening to now is A Region in my mind which is one of my favourite tracks on this album. Please remember that you can find reviews of albums and live gigs on the blog at hilaryseb.blogger dot com and I hope you enjoy listening to Harmonious World do please get in touch until the next episode I just hope you have a really good week and thanks for joining me on Harmonious World