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Security Halt!
Sleep Is the Mission: Dr. Leah Kaylor on Mental Health, Sleep Apnea, and Recovery
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Sleep is not a luxury—it's a mission-critical component of mental health. In this episode, Dr. Leah Kaylor breaks down the science of sleep, from the role of REM in emotional processing to the hidden dangers of sleep apnea and overused medications like Ambien. She offers practical, actionable strategies to improve your sleep environment and explains why sleep is foundational for healing, resilience, and performance—especially for veterans and high-stress professionals.
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Produced by Security Halt Media
Security Hall Podcast is proudly sponsored by TitanStar, Petition Wellness Group of Your Liberty Lab. Welcome back, Dr. Kaylor, it's Security Hall Podcast. Great to have you back.
SPEAKER_00:Thanks for having me. I'm so excited to be here again.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, this is awesome. You have a new book out, and uh I gotta bring you back because as we both of us know, sleep is not just a secondary uh thing that we need to focus on. It's the primary thing. Um if we can sleep better, if we can sleep through the night consistently, we can start to feel better. And I mean, I already know so much and have so much to learn, but I find it serendipitous that I'm at this point in my education, I'm studying sleep again in classes that focus on mental health, emotional development. It's intertwined in so much and it's fascinating. Everything. So today, Dr. Kaylor, please give us a for those that are joining us now and haven't seen the previous episodes, give us a little background onto uh your profession and uh your book.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, hi everybody. Uh, if you haven't met me before, my name is Dr. Leah Kaylor. I'm a licensed clinical psychologist and a prescribing psychologist, which means that I can write scripts, which is kind of unique for psychologists. Um, I have been, before I got to the FBI, I was at the Memphis VA Medical Center, and that's where everything started with sleep. Um, the sleep rotation was one of the many rotations that I did. And for me, it was extremely eye-opening because I didn't know how many people were struggling with sleep, how many different flavors sleep disruption actually came in. And so uh while I was there, I got a chance to treat nightmares and uh helping people with obstructive sleep apnea and insomnia and you name it, sleep avoidance, all kinds of things. And so um immediately afterwards, I was picked up as a full-time psychologist for the FBI. And I was brand new. I was I was talking to my um supervisor and she had asked me, okay, Leah, so what's going to be your thing? And I said, Well, I just got off of a sleep clinic rotation, and I feel like whenever it comes to mental health, yes, there's some stigma, yes, there's some taboo. But whenever it comes to sleep and having trouble sleeping, people really don't have an issue talking about that. Everybody can relate to having a crappy night's sleep, and it doesn't necessarily mean that there are any mental health issues. Oftentimes they're very connected, as we were just saying, but it could be because you have a new baby, it could be because you have a pet, it could be because you have chronic pain. And, you know, the various different things that could be keeping you up at night are countless. And so I kind of just did this sneaky foot-in-the-door thing of getting people to talk to me about sleep. And then after kind of developing this rapport with them, then getting into some underlying uh mental health issues that are oftentimes there, anyhow. So that's that's where it all started. I've been doing this for the Bureau now for six years, and I just figured I don't have enough hours in the day. I can't reach as many people who need the help that they need. And so I decided to put it all down on paper, and that's what I did. It just came out on October 1st. It's called If Sleep Were a Drug. And I'm I'm very pleased. So we're talking just like a week into the release right now, and it has hit Amazon number one bestseller for law enforcement and for sleep medicine. So I am very, very pleased.
SPEAKER_01:That is awesome. I'm definitely gonna um I'm gonna ask for a signed copy. I mean, I gotta get something so I can rep to the guys.
SPEAKER_00:Of course. Of course, it would be my pleasure.
SPEAKER_01:Matt, you touched on something that um I I talk about often, but I made a meme, uh, which is one of the most impactful ways to connect with the community.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And it was about sleep apnea. And I've talked about it, I've joked about it, that yeah, it, you know, it's it's becoming a thing when you retire out of the military, they hand you a DD214 and they hand you a sleep apnea machine. Um, so what better way to talk about this? Because I'm gonna tag the individual because it was supposed to be a funny thing. Uh, I ended up getting some messages and people were uh reaching out for like, hey, what is sleep apnea really about and how can I combat it? Like, because there's things that I can do to make myself like not have to be reliant on this machine that I got to carry everywhere. So let's begin there. What's sleep apnea and what can we do about it?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so it's it's such a good question. And like, I'm gonna tell you the book is broken down into three sections. So the first section is all about this I'll sleep when I'm dead attitude and how that will get you to the grave much quicker and why that's an issue. Then in the middle section, I talk about all the things that you do to get in your own way. And then the final section, I talk, it's kind of like a troubleshooting guide. So you don't have to read every chapter. It's, you know, whatever you're struggling with, go to that chapter. So hard time falling asleep, staying asleep, nightmares, menopause, whatever. And I have three chapters on obstructive sleep apnea because it is so important. Yes, it's so important. And so, um, you know, a lot of times people may have it, may be struggling with it, but have no idea. It is severely underdiagnosed. And so let's talk about what it is, and then I'll talk about why. So when we sleep, our airway relaxes, the muscles in our throat, our tongue relaxes, and that's normal. So, what should be happening is your airway should be able to stay open. However, sometimes those muscles just get really, really relaxed, the tongue gets very relaxed. And also, if we decide to put some alcohol on top of it or muscle relaxers, that's also going to make things worse. So, whenever our throat starts to collapse a little bit or kind of narrow and we hear the sound of snoring, that's what that is. Snoring is a sign that the airway is narrowing. And whenever we have obstructive sleep apnea, we might have two different things. So we might have apneas, which are the complete closing of the airway, or we might have what's called hypotnia, which is um kind of like a partial closing of the airway. So oftentimes people don't know that they have obstructive sleep apnea. Typically, it's either like a bed partner, a family member, someone who kind of observes them sleeping and either notices the snoring, because sometimes we don't, we don't know if we're snoring or not. And so our bed partner will gladly tell us if we are and nudge us and wake us up and tell us that we sound like a chainsaw. Or on the other hand, with the apnias, oftentimes that looks like just not breathing at all. Then the person might start gasping, might have kind of like a choking sensation. And the reason why this is happening is because we need oxygen and the brain needs oxygen. And luckily, the brain has this mechanism for waking us up whenever we are not getting oxygen. And that mechanism to wake us up is either that choking, the gasping, kind of just really trying to get air. And sometimes that will wake the person up completely, but oftentimes it doesn't. And that's what we would call like a micro awakening, or we might also call that a micro arousal. And so the person um is getting pulled out of those deeper stages of sleep, but they may not wake up completely. And so a lot of times I'll have people come to me and just say, like, I don't know what the deal is. I do spend this much time in bed. You know, I'm giving myself the time to sleep, but I'm just so exhausted in the daytime. And that's another huge red flag for obstructive sleep apnea is this very excessive daytime sleepiness, like being able to fall asleep almost at any any point in time, like during meetings in a movie while you're driving. These are red flags. So oftentimes people don't know that they have obstructive sleep apnea. So a bed partner might tell them, hey, you're you're gasping, you weren't breathing last night, you were snoring. And then people who spend time with them in the daytime, like a colleague or a partner, may recognize this excessive daytime sleepiness. And some other red flags might be like morning headaches. That's a piece of it. Uh, another piece would be uncontrolled high blood pressure. So high blood pressure that does not respond well to, yeah, it doesn't respond well to medication. So those are just a few red flags that I would say people need to keep an eye out for for obstructive sleep apnea. And uh it just some people kind of have the DAC stacked against them as far as their like facial anatomy and whatnot.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And then also weight plays a piece into it too. Um, so there are a lot of different factors that that come into play, but hopefully that answered your question.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, absolutely. And it's important to understand that there's there are devices out there, there's mouthpieces, there are tons of things that we don't readily like, we just accept. For a vast majority of us, we just accept it and we don't question it and we don't ask how we can overcome it. We just take it as like, oh, I just have to carry this. I mean, look at the airport. Next time you're going to travel anywhere, look at the amount of people that are carrying their sleep apnea machine uh on board with them. And it's it's our carry-on. It's like, dude, it's so many.
SPEAKER_00:A hot tip is that whenever you have obstructive sleep apnea, you can travel with that and it doesn't count against you for your personal item or your carry-on or your luggage. You have a right, because it's a medical device, as long as it's packed in its own separate container, that you can fly with that as like an additional piece of luggage for no extra cost because that is a medical device. So people need to know that. Um, but yeah, you're exactly right. I think that whenever it comes to obstructive sleep apnea, we have categories for how severe it is. So you might have mild, moderate, severe, and that depends on what we would categorize based on how many events you're having per night. And the events are kind of like this fancy calculation, but it's really looking at how many hypopneas and how many apneas you're having. So how many times your airway is partially or completely obstructed throughout the night. And then that determines how you get categorized into mild, moderate, or severe. And with that, then there are kind of corresponding treatments. So as we had discuss, you know, someone who has mild obstructive sleep apnea, there are some things that you can do without actually even having a diagnosis, without going to talk to a doctor. And that might look like exercise, it might look like diet, it might look like because some people do have positional obstructive sleep apnea. So lying on the back is a problem.
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SPEAKER_00:It's as simple as lying on the side. Now, that can be a struggle to stay on the side all night. And so there are positional devices. One like very cheap and easy thing that I can recommend to you is sew some tennis balls on the back of your pajamas so you won't roll over onto your back. Hey, cheap, easy, you can do that for like relatively free. Um, and so that's one way if you have positional obstructive sleep apnea. But also if you have um allergies, it's important to take care of those allergies. If you use alcohol, alcohol, like we talked about, is only gonna make it worse. So cutting or eliminating as much as possible. If you're a smoker, that is also only going to kind of be getting in your own way. So considering cutting that out. So those are some things that you can start to do without ever having a diagnosis that that are gonna be lifestyle changes that can contribute towards better sleep.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. It's important to understand, like you you have a say in this fight. Like you can start doing things. Um, so yeah, always understand and ask questions, man. And a lot of this is found out through a sleep study. So if you're getting out uh or if you your wife tells you you snore really bad, go to your provider, ask for sleep study. Yes. I mean, if you're in a major base, you're you have access to it, ask, be informed, be willing to go there. It's a pain in the butt. You gotta go sleep in a hospital. They put all those wires all over you. But I'm telling you, like this and the aura ring, they give us game great metrics, which we're I'm about to talk about with you, but they don't give us the metrics we need as far as like an in-depth sleep study. Advoc for yourself, advocate for yourself and ask for sleep study. Not tomorrow, today. Be willing to do that, have an open discussion. Your health matters. We need you in the fight, we need you out there doing your job or the best version of yourself when you start your chapter, your next chapter in life uh as you're transitioning. So get that sleep study. It's really important and it's I mean, it's a no-brainer. Plus, talk about your benefits. Everybody's always worrying about how much you're gonna make. That's another thing you can go get and have a definitive rating and be better informed. Um, speaking of sleep studies, yeah, I have a lot of guys that still don't understand the cycles of sleep and the stages. They we grow up thinking that sleep's just sleep. If I get a nap, I'm good. Like, no.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, so I want to add a couple things to obstructive sleep apnea conversation, and then we're gonna move on to that question. So, one of the things that I want to talk about, and I don't know how many female listeners there are out there, but I do think that this is important. So, before menopause, obstructive sleep apnea is less common in women. But whenever women go through menopause, there are changes in estrogen and progesterone that really change um airway. They they change really yes. So um the two hormones, estrogen and progesterone, impact, yeah, how the airway continues to stay open. It impacts our ability to stay asleep. And so once we go through this life change, the rates of obstructive sleep apnea for women go up very, very high. But it looks very different for women. And so doctors kind of call it this silent epidemic because it looks different. It's it's not necessarily what we had just described, which is kind of like this quintessential, like kind of always what you think of. For women, it may look very different. And so it may be even harder to get that accurate diagnosis. So, for those of you who may be listening, after menopause, you're thinking, like, oh my gosh, my sleep has gone off the rails. I always used to be a good sleeper, I don't know what the deal is. Again, advocate for yourself and go have a sleep study. And also, too, you know, maybe it is obstructive sleep apnea, maybe it's not. But whenever you go into a lab and you have the sleep study done, yes, it is a pain. However, that is going to be the best possible data that you can get. Like you said, you're gonna be completely hooked up. So if it's not obstructive sleep apnea, maybe it's something else, but that is gonna give you the best possible chance of an accurate diagnosis and then getting the treatment that corresponds with whatever's going wrong. So I think it's just so important to power through that one annoying evening and go have a sleep study done. And you know, a lot of people tell me, and I love this, but I also wish that it didn't take me, you know, going and giving a talk or whatever, for people to say, when I got my CPAP machine, it was like night and day. Like when people start using it, and there is a learning curve, there totally is. Like we need to be honest about that. For some people, maybe there isn't, but for a lot of people there is because it is the continuous positive airway pressure that is coming at you, that it's a little bit like drinking out of a fire hose, if you will. And it takes a bit of time to get used to that. But for some people, and if you're listening and you're thinking, oh my gosh, I've had a CPAP, but I can't wear it, it's just too challenging. There are some other things that you can try too. And this is what I did with my veterans when I was at the VA was starting, because some people don't like having a mask on their face. And there are various different masks now to choose from that don't necessarily have to cover the whole mouth and nose. There are ones that are just for the nose. There are like the nasal pillows. So there are options for you. Um, because sometimes it just does feel claustrophobic. Maybe you've had some type of experience with something on your face that just is feels traumatic, feels like it's bringing you back to a place where you don't want to be. Um, but some other things you can do to start to gradually get used to it is just wear the mask at home, turned off while you're doing something basic like reading or watching television, and then slowly turn it on for short periods of time in the daytime just to get used to it. And then eventually we'll move to wearing it at night. Um, but I do think that that can be really helpful for people who find it to just be very overwhelming to start out with.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And then BIPAP is also an option too for those who really find that they just can't tolerate the CPAP. So BiPAP kind of helps a little bit with that kind of drinking out of a fire hose type sensation where the inhale and the exhale are different. So instead of having that constant continuous pressure, it does change with the inhale and the exhale. So those are just lots of options for you, for those of you who might be listening that think, oh, I could never wear a CPAP machine. Okay, well, there are other options. And like what you just said, there's also um dental devices too that move the jaw to kind of open up the airway, too. Not everyone is a great candidate for that, but it's worth asking about. And then there's also ones that are called tongue retaining that kind of act like a suction cup for the tongue and hold it forward and keeps the airway open that way. So there are lots of options. I wrote a whole chapter on it so you can go check it out.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I love it. Yeah, it's it's uh it's easy to think that it only affects men because that's 90% of the the the optics and metrics when you walk into a, you know, I I think maybe guys are just okay with carrying a CPAP machine out in the open. Yeah. Yeah, it it's um it's not as common to see it uh even in in culture. Like we see it in movies where it's always the guy, the heavy set guy with a CPAP machine, not the fit uh airborne ranger that is having to wear a CPAP machine at night.
SPEAKER_00:Well, and I think it's important that we have this conversation, right? Like you earlier had alluded to the whoop, and I uh recently spoke to someone without giving away too much information, and they have a whoop and they wear it and they connect it to their doctor's office, so it automatically sends all the information to their doctor.
SPEAKER_02:No way.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. And um he his doctor contacted him and said, Hey, like I think that we need to have a sleep study done. And again, this person's very young, very fit, and the doctor notices, they sent him for a sleep study, and it turns out that he does have obstructive sleep apnea. So it's just, you know, you're not not you're the person that you think of automatically in your mind. This person's young, they're very fit, they're not overweight. And so uh yeah, it's we need to kind of get over that portrayal that is this quintessential person because it's it's really not.
SPEAKER_01:And oh no, there's there's a great study out. Uh it's I'm spacing um who put it out there, but they studied um sleep apnea within the military, within SOF. It's it's not, it's not who you think. It's not the guy that's 400 pounds, like yes, maybe that individual does have sleep apnea.
SPEAKER_00:They probably do too.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, but it's across the board. We're seeing it more and more in younger and within our our you know, even our most elite units, we're seeing guys with sleep apnea. Like if you're in a team room, you've been out a field training exercise, you know the guys that snore. It's like Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And you know, we we talk about sleep deprivation and we know how detrimental that is to the brain, to the body, to like literally every every system. And yet, whenever we have um untreated obstructive sleep apnea, that just takes all of the risks and turns it up to a much, much higher degree. Because uh not only are we not sleeping well, but then the brain is constantly being deprived of the oxygen that it so desperately needs. And so instead of getting that deep restorative rest, it's busy fighting for oxygen all night long.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, um, one of the things that, like I mentioned earlier, people within our our community are still struggling to comprehend what restful sleep looks like and stages. Like everybody I had the same idea. It's linear, it was a very sleep, very, very, very, you know, on the bottom of the importance scale for us. And then when we did think about it, it was just a linear thing. I just close my eyes and that's sleep. But that's not the reality. It's like it is stages of sleep. So if you could break that down for us.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so it's it's very, very complex. So I'm gonna talk about the normal, average, healthy sleeper and how sleep stages should look. So I I agree. I think a lot of people think that when we go to bed, that we turn off the light switch, and that light switch is also turning off the brain and turning off the body. This could not be further from the truth because our brain and our body are so incredibly active during sleep because there's a lot of wear. There's every day, no matter how active you are, or maybe just kind of the regular person, everything that we're doing, we are creating some micro wear and tear and damage in our bodies, and that needs to be repaired. And that happens during sleep.
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SPEAKER_00:So we're going to start off our evening by someone who is awake, maybe they're sitting on the couch, or maybe they're sitting in bed, maybe they're watching a television show, and they're starting to feel sleepy. I like to call this the wave of sleepiness. Technically, this is just called like light sleep stage one. And this is where your eyes are starting to get heavy, you're starting to have some of those head nods. You could be woken up very easily by sounds in the room. Maybe you're like, I wasn't sleeping. You know, that's what that like wave of sleepiness uh feels like and looks like. So that's important. And then we move down into N1. So it is still light sleep, but it is a deeper form than kind of that head nodding. Um, well, that's actually called hypnic jerks, those kind of like falling forward or like feeling like you're falling, which is just so interesting. Oh, yeah, a lot of us are. And it's interesting, right? Whenever we call it like falling asleep, yeah. You know, that like falling sensation. So, anyways, I just I kind of like that little fun sleep fact. I'm a nerd like that.
SPEAKER_01:We we have some very derogatory terms for the guys that are that fall into any moment you get in a vehicle, I'm guilty of it. Like if I'm not driving or teasy, it's just you immediately starting it. It's just the roar of the engine just lulls you right to sleep.
SPEAKER_00:You just start nodding off. Yes. So that would be stage one, and then we're dropping into stage two light sleep. And a lot of people nowadays, as you talked about, like have an aura or a whoop or this or that. And uh, you know, I just got this question just over the weekend. People will ask me or get frustrated saying, Oh my gosh, why I'm spending so much time in light sleep. Okay, don't get upset about it because you need to be cycling through light sleep, deep sleep, and REM sleep throughout the night. And they all have very important jobs. All of the jobs kind of build upon each other, they all kind of interlap, uh, overlap. So there's there are some things that happen in each of them, but they all help each other and it's all very important. So you might even be spending up to 50% of your night in light sleep throughout the night, like as a as a total. And so people get very upset about that and they want to know how they can improve, but no, that's that's part of cycling through the sleep stages. So after light sleep, again, a normal average, healthy sleeper, we should be dropping down into deep sleep. To make it very simple, I like to think about deep sleep as important for the body. It does tons of different functions, but I like to just simplify it as deep sleep is very important for the body. REM sleep is very, very important for our cognitive functioning and our mental health functioning. Again, that's super simplistic. Deep sleep. This is the time when your muscles should start to relax. This is the time when your blood pressure should go down. When your blood pressure goes down, it gives your blood vessels a rest. This is called nocturnal dipping. This should also give your heart a rest, which is very, very important. And this is the time, if you have not eaten too close to bed, this is also the time where each of your organs should have a scheduled rest break. Because think about our day. We're we're probably eating and drinking most of the day throughout the day. And because we're doing that, our organs are constantly working to break down whatever it is that we've put in there to get those nutrients where they need to go. So if you haven't eaten too close to bed, two to three-ish hours before bed, this should be the time where each of your organs have the opportunity to take that scheduled rest break and to do that very important like damage control that we've kind of asked it to work through all day long. So that another way that I like to think about deep sleep is I imagine most people do this. I put my phone on charge when I go to bed, I leave it on charge all night long. And then when I wake up, I can basically guarantee that I'm gonna have 100% battery on my phone and I know it's gonna last all day long. And that's the way that I like to think about deep sleep is that it's very important for our energy restoration to have the energy that we need the following day. So that is kind of in a nutshell what's happening with deep sleep. And we get the biggest chunk of deep sleep at the very beginning of our night. So as you are falling asleep, you're you're moving through the light sleep, the deeper light sleep, and then you're moving into deep sleep, and you're gonna get that biggest chunk. But then we're gonna move up into REM. And REM stands for rapid eye movement. And the way that we can tell someone is in REM when their eyes are closed, their their um pupils are darting back and forth. So if you're watching someone sleep, as creepy as that is, you could see when they are in REM sleep. One really cool thing, and just like again, like a side little fun fact. If you woke someone up during REM sleep, they could tell you exactly what it is that they were dreaming about. Oh. Which is just very cool. Yeah. It's very interesting. So, as I mentioned, I like to think of REM sleep as very important for the brain and just our emotional health. So a few things that are happening there are we are busy kind of going through, because a lot of times the brain doesn't like whenever things are left open-ended. It likes to complete things, it likes to check things off its to-do list. I imagine that most of us fall into that category. The brain doesn't like open-ended things. So at night, it's busy trying to solve problems that we couldn't solve in the daytime. And this is sometimes when we wake up with that like aha moment of kind of like these innovative or unique or different like things that we maybe didn't think of in the daytime. And we're like, oh, you just like wake up with the solution. That is a thank you to Rem sleep for allowing us to do this because it's having the creativity and the innovation of RESleep, but it's also tapping into the memories and the existing neural networks that we have. So it's kind of looping these things together and and helping us solve the problems that we couldn't solve during the world.
SPEAKER_01:So glad you tapped into that. Uh yes. And I want to pause and reflect on that because some of the the oldest and most sound advice that you will read, like if a lot of days has been brought to the forefront because stoicism, people are always talking about the stoics. People are like, Ryan Holiday, I need to read more about the Stoics. And you hear these, these, these phrases and these ideas of like going on a walk. If you're going through a problem, go on a walk, or you always heard from like your grandparents, or maybe even your parents, okay, you you're going through something, go to bed. Go get some good sleep. You'll figure it out. Yeah, go go get some sleep. But the problem, and and I see it with you know, soul entrepreneurs, guys that have these big dreams, big ambitions, I have it too. You hold on to something for so long, and you're you're you're staying up late. Even if you're in school, you do this. I know you do this because I was doing it. You're worried about something, and rather than giving it up and saying, I can't solve it right now, I'm gonna let it go, I'm gonna go get some sleep. Every sound piece of advice you've heard throughout your entire life when it comes to crunch time for a test or something that's difficult in your life, everybody always says the same thing, but you never listen to it. Let it go, go to sleep, get some rest. It is far better to get rest than crunch, worry, or stay up thinking that you're gonna solve that problem. And the reality is you're already at the cusp of solving it. You just need to go to sleep to allow yourself to surrender. And it's the most, like I said, it's it's it's all throughout stoicism and even in the Bible, it's all throughout what you've been learning your entire life to let go of things, but we don't, and we sacrifice sleep, which is so counterintuitive. Like it it's yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And there are some very great minds in history. I think that I want to say Benjamin Franklin is one of them that would purposefully, and that this is kind of like a again, a like another like sleep fun fact sidebar that would fall asleep but have um metal balls in their hand and have uh like a pot or like a metal pan uh beside them. And when they would fall asleep, their hand would relax, the metal balls would drop, and then they would drop into the pan. And so that was some of our early forefathers trying to capitalize on this dream and this sleep and like all the tools that we have available to us then. So I'm not sure how incredibly effective that is, but it's just interesting to think how long ago people were already trying to tap into that.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, yeah. It's sometimes you need to understand the breakthrough is gonna come when you stop thinking about something and just let yourself be.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Like our brain's incredibly powerful. We we know more about outer space than we do about the cognitive process and how much happens that we're not in control of. So yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. The the brain is so cool and it's so mysterious, and there's still so much. That we have to learn. I just think the REM sleep is so cool and so beautiful. And when I say that it's not a passive process whatsoever, I really truly mean that. Because if we had someone who is in REM sleep and we put a cap with electrodes on them, and then we also had someone who is awake and active and problem solving and we put a cap with electrodes on them and we look at their brain waves, their brain waves are going to be nearly identical. They're going to be very hard to tell the difference between the two.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. That blows my mind. We tend to think that sleep, everything shuts down, and nothing's occurring. But it like I'm I we touched on on the previous episode, it's the only time your brain has time to execute these complex things, like get rid of its waste. The process of getting and and everybody's like, oh, the brain is just a brain, it doesn't have to do anything. I'm like, no, it's an incredible, it's it's like any other high performance machine. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:It is a machine.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Yeah. And and one of the other pieces, too, that I think is really well, let me say this. Uh keep like a little journal or a little notebook or at least like a sticky note next to your bed. So when you have these brilliant ideas in the middle of the night, write them down. Don't I don't recommend going to the phone because then you're going to expose yourself to blue light and then you know you're going to go down a rabbit hole and it'll be morning before you know it. But keep keep some paper and pencil right next to your bed and write down those ideas. Maybe the next morning they make complete sense to you, maybe they don't. But nonetheless, then the brain can relax a little bit too, knowing that you've captured that somewhere and that you can come back to it.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, absolutely. This episode is brought to you by Titan SARMS. Head on over to TitansArms.com and buy a stack today. Use my code CD10 to get your first stack. I recommend the Lean Stack 2. Start living your best life. Titan SARMs. No junk, no bullshit, just results. You know, we we have to touch into the correlation between sleep and mental health.
SPEAKER_03:Yes.
SPEAKER_01:There's a big thing. A lot of us have experienced sleep deprivation, whether it's in a training environment, shout out to Sears School. You've got to get intimate with not getting sleep. Or in real combat operations, you understand that it gets to be a fine line between, you know, the sanity. Like you can you can go without sleep to a certain point before things get crazy on you.
SPEAKER_03:Yes.
SPEAKER_01:And insomnia is something that affects a vast majority of our population. But what people still don't understand is that affects your mental well-being in the long run.
SPEAKER_00:Yes. Yes. And I'm glad that you're mentioning that now because that goes hand in hand with REM. So I like to say that sleep has a lot of vicious cycles where if you're not sleeping well, your mental health will be poor. If your mental health is poor, you're probably not sleeping well. So it just kind of is this like chicken and the egg cycle that just keeps going until we do something about it. But one super cool thing about REM when we give our body the chance to get enough sleep and to get into REM is that the brain kind of acts like this very skilled mental health professional. And this is the time, again, normal average healthy sleeper, this is the only time when your brain levels of neuroadrenaline, basically adrenaline in the brain, should be nearly at zero. Very cool. And the reason why this happens is that that is the time where the brain brings up things that may be painful, traumatic, upsetting, triggering for us to work through them. And that happens during REM sleep dreaming, whether we're dreaming about the event or like associated pieces or themes. And it makes it, it takes away some of that emotional sting. And then the next morning when we wake up, it makes it a little bit easier to deal with and to handle. And so when we are either not gaming ourselves enough time to sleep, which I'll talk about that next, or if we're not able to get into REM, alcohol is a huge REM suppressor. Huge REM suppressor. So, or if we just don't have the skills to bring our adrenaline, our cortisol, our noradrenaline down enough, that's oftentimes where we end up with nightmares, where the brain is trying to process something. Yes, the light bulb just went off for you.
SPEAKER_01:No, no, that's that's a we haven't, that's something we didn't touch on last time. And that's something that's something that um, you know, we we deal with sleep um issues, but one of the things that guys don't talk about is night terrors. Vast majority of guys from our our generation and previous generations in the military, one of the big issues with sleep is that they they punch out, they move, they kick, and they react to something that they're dealing with. So the nightmare thing, like, we got to dive into that. Like, what's going on there?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. So uh one other interesting thing that should be happening, because there's a difference between nightmares and night terrors. There's a chapter on both. Yes. So one of the things that should be happening during REM, normal average healthy sleeper, is what's called REM atonia. And that is when you are nearly paralyzed. And other than, you know, obviously your circulatory system, your pulmonary system, your eyes are still going back and forth. That's how we know you're in REM. But otherwise, everything else should be paralyzed. And that is a protective mechanism, so you don't act out your dreams. So you don't try and Superman out of a second story window or something. That is a protective well, and sleep paralysis comes out of that. So sleep paralysis is basically those chemicals have not fully metabolized and moved their way out of the body. So you are starting to wake up, but the body is a little bit delayed. And so there's this mismatch. So you're partially in dreamland, you're partially awake, and that's also where we may see things, feel things, these like hallucinations, these sensations. And it's very scary because we are still in this paralyzed situation. And it may feel like it goes on for a long time. Honestly, it normally just lasts a few seconds until it fully shakes off. But that is what sleep paralysis is, is that that REM Atonia hasn't fully shaken off yet.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Oh man, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Fascinating, right?
SPEAKER_01:That's insane. That that yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I love that.
SPEAKER_00:When people are experiencing, well, so when things go off the rails and you are acting out your dreams, that's something called REM sleep behavior disorder. But so that's one piece. And then you also talked about night terrors. So night terrors and like sleepwalking kind of fall into another category where we call this a parasomnia. And it's a, it's, it's kind of where, and this is interesting whenever you are either sleepwalking or having a night terror. This actually doesn't happen during REM. This happens more so when you're kind of stuck between deep sleep and like wakefulness. So it's the brain is trying to move through the different stages, but it kind of gets stuck in like the 13th floor, and this weird thing happens where some controls are still on, like motor control. You can still move, you can walk around, you can go like put a pillow in the oven, like weird stuff. But your like thinking brain isn't online. And so it's this weird, like things are things are stuck. And one of the reasons why this happens is people just having very erratic sleep schedules, uh, not having good stress management, alcohol can also contribute to it. So there are several different factors that can contribute to people kind of getting stuck between this deep sleep and and and wakefulness and having this motor movement.
SPEAKER_01:Well, let me ask you this because one of the things that we've dealt with is um ambient. Bringing about these episodes of individuals. Because we you get pres you get prescribed pro-vigal to stay up, and then you get prescribed ambient so that you can go to sleep.
SPEAKER_03:Yes.
SPEAKER_01:Uh, and we think that's restful sleep, but one thing that has become part of the culture now is videos and teammates watching individuals wake up, do erratic things, but they're not awake. They're not they're not actually awake.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:What's going on with that?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. So uh, you know, a lot of people, and I'm I'm lucky enough to have the education to be a prescriber, so we can talk about this. And I do have the ability to write prescriptions for things like Ambient, and I very try very, very hard not to. I think so far in my career I have yet to, and I feel strongly about that because I think that good sleep happens from lifestyle changes, environmental changes, you know, reading the book and and putting things into practice, getting a wind-down routine, doing stress management techniques. That's how you get good sleep, or having a sleep study, getting a CPAP, like doing the things that you need to do. And in the chapter, I call it There's No Magic Pill, because that's what people want, and people will ask me for that. And I do a lot of psychoeducation around you may think that you want this, but let me just give you the cold, hard truth. And when we talk about ambient or its other like family members, which are like Lunesta and Sonata, they're called the Z drugs. They're not benzodiazepines, but they're very similar to benzodiazepines. And so what happens with this particular type of drug, and I think it's so important that people need to know this, is that it has a black box warning. It has a black box warning, and that is the most dangerous uh warning that the FDA can give out. It's very important, they're very selective about which medications get this. And the reason why it has this is for two separate reasons. One, anterior grade amnesia, which means you take the pill, you wake up the next morning, no memory for that period of time. That is very dangerous. The other reason why it has a black box warning is for sleep like behavior, sleep movement. So not everyone will experience this, but you could. And so you have no memory of this time, but you may also walk around. Like I said, maybe you try and put a pillow in the oven and bake a cake. You may get into your car and you go through the drive-thru. Lots of things can potentially happen, and that's why it's so dangerous, especially, you know, you're talking about people watching others and videotaping them. And, you know, there's a there's a funny element to it, but it's also extremely dangerous, especially for those folks who live alone, who sleep alone, because you may not have any indications or clues that you have done this. And it's very possible that you have. And, you know, it's funny whenever we see it in the movies or or anecdotes, um, but it it can lead to very, very dangerous situations. And so we don't want to to underplay and laugh it off because if this is, especially as me as a prescriber, if someone has this, we will prescribe this no more. You have to stop tanking this. This is too dangerous, too risky to allow you to continue to have this. And so it's just uh something that people need to know about that there's no magic pill, and this uh really truly does happen to people, and it's it's it can be very scary and very dangerous.
SPEAKER_01:I'm so glad you brought that up because that's one of the things that uh it was never brought up to us. Um, just like many other drugs. I mean, the Mephlequin, uh the the ever there's so many, so many prescribed meds that are given to us throughout our military career, and nobody ever tells you, like, hey, this is a it has a black label warning that you need to be cautious about X, Y, and Z. And then we continue to ask the provider for it because we think it's giving us restful sleep, but it's not. Yeah, oftentimes, the one thing that I always heard from guys that were relying on it is like, I know I'm closing my eyes, I know I'm getting sleep, but I don't feel rested. I feel like I just like close my eyes and I'm still dragging ass and they're still falling asleep at random moments throughout the day. Um, because we tend to think that uh going to sleep and taking a nap are interchangeable.
SPEAKER_00:Yes. Okay. First of all, uh that's poor prescribing practices. You need to be a good provider, you need to let people know what it is that they need to know. And also you need to let them know hey, if this is happening to you, you need to come back to me. This is not okay. We cannot continue to give you this medication. So, first and foremost, that's poor prescribing practice. And I I'm sorry that this is happening to you and and others because it sounds like this is a big problem. Whenever so there's some theories, and this is theories, that because of the amnestic effects and not having much memory, that people may continue to be sleeping just as poorly, but maybe don't have as much memory for it. So they think that they might be, they feel that they might be sleeping better. Also, you know, the placebo effect is a very strong effect as well.
SPEAKER_02:Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00:With um, you know, and an ambient and lunest and sonata, like very much, you know, there's there's songs about it, you know. Take yourself an ambient. So uh, you know, I think that there's a lot going on that we need to talk about whenever it comes to medication. And yes, the placebo effect is very, very strong. So those are a few things that I want to say about that. When it comes to the Z drugs, they do preserve sleep architecture. And when I say sleep architecture, that's what we were talking about earlier of light sleep, deep sleep, REM sleep, more so than other drugs, but it's not as good as natural sleep without any additives. Um, but I I want to go back to our sleep architecture for a minute because I didn't fully close that out.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_00:We've got the light sleep, we move down into deep sleep, we move up into REM sleep. That is one sleep cycle. Normally takes 50 to 90 minutes. You should, normal average healthy sleeper, if you're giving yourself enough time, adults, that should be seven to nine hours per night. You should be going through four to five sleep cycles per night. So you're getting your biggest chunk of deep sleep in the early night when you're falling asleep, and you're getting your biggest chunk of REM sleep in the hours before your alarm clock goes off. It is also normal to wake up briefly throughout the night. Maybe you need to use the restroom, maybe you need to toss your pillow off, maybe you need more covers. That is normal. You should be able to fall back asleep relatively quickly. What's not normal is being awake for extended periods of time throughout the night. So I just want to tell you what the sleep architecture looks like. But whenever we are not giving ourselves the opportunity to rest or when we're getting in our own way, and you know, this is this is very, very normal, right? Like I say this all the time. I don't have enough hours in the day. And I imagine that everyone can relate to that, saying that very frequently. And so, how do we find time for work, for family, for personal time, just for me time? And oftentimes what we do is we push off sleep. I tell people who come to my lectures that, you know, whether you realize it or not, you're a magician because you make those extra hours appear and people kind of look at me like, what the hell is she talking about? It's because you either decide to stay up later or you decide, I'll just set my alarm clock for earlier. And this becomes very problematic because, as I mentioned, you get the biggest chunk of that deep, restorative, physically restorative sleep at the very beginning of the night. So if you decide, oh, well, I'm just gonna stay up, I have to see this season finale. Well, there goes a huge chunk of your deep sleep. So, you know, you decide what's important. And then if you decide, okay, uh, I I need to to meet this deadline, I have to finish the Kids Science Fair project, well, then, you know, if you decide to set your alarm, we'll just say like an hour earlier, you're cutting out a huge chunk of REM sleep. And again, that's very important for our emotions, for us to kind of just be able to interact with other people and not snap on them. Um, so that is, you know, either way you slice it, we're doing ourselves a disservice. And I think it's so important for people to know that that the sleep cycle will continue to carry on. If you missed out, you missed out.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And it's uh one thing that I if you're struggling right now, just understand like, dude, I've been there. You you don't want to lose hope. That's one of the first things I want you to understand. Like, if you're currently dealing with insomnia or sleep issues, don't look at it as a hopeless fight. There's things you can do and things you you you have more control of this than you think.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Which is why I want to dive into all the things that you can do in your control to optimize your home, optimize your sleep environment, your bedroom. Like, there are so many things you can do. And one of the biggest things that we don't is move this out of the bedroom.
SPEAKER_03:Like that.
SPEAKER_01:I get it. I get it. The last thing I do is make sure I don't have any weird missed calls, and then it stays right there. But then I know, I know I'm gonna get messages and emails and that screen, that screen. Like, what are some things we can do to optimize that bedroom so that it can be the best sanctuary for good sleep?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. So whenever we talk about the bedroom, the best things that we can do for that would be keeping it dark, cool, and quiet. So when we talk about it being dark, as dark as you can possibly make it, if if you can't see your hand in front of your face, you're doing pretty damn good. That's how dark I want it. And, you know, that's gonna be a challenge for some people. But, you know, that's that's why I put this all down in a book. There's a whole entire chapter about it, about, you know, maybe we get blackout curtains. Sometimes those aren't good enough, though. I've you know, I've had that before. And maybe you can get some blackout films for underneath of those. Um, sometimes there's that like pesky light that's kind of like throughout the sides. So you might get some like double stick velcro to try and fix that. Um, you know, you may have like a gap underneath your door. You could get kind of like one of those draft stoppers, or you could like roll up a towel, different things like that to kind of get rid of as much light as possible. Again, any electronics that you can take out of the bedroom, I highly recommend it. And then other things that have small lights, I recommend going around and putting like little stickers or like electrical tape on them just to make it as dark as you possibly can. Another thing we need to talk about is making it cool. So the research tells us, and everyone's gonna have their own personal preferences, I hear this all the time, but the research tells us low 60s is ideal for sleep. And the reason why is that our body temperature, one of the ways that our body tells us, and there are many ways, that it's time to fall asleep, is that our internal body temperature should drop one to two degrees Fahrenheit. And that is one of the signals that tells our brain and our body it's time to fall asleep. So if you're sleeping in a room that's really hot, if you've got lots of blankets, not to say that you couldn't do that, but you need to support this because there's lots of research out there to show that people fall asleep better whenever their room is cool and then they stay asleep better whenever they're able to keep their body cool. And, you know, I encourage people to just do some experimentation with this. I know, you know, I'll do lectures all the time and somebody else has their bed partner with them, and then there's all you know almost every single time there's, you know, this temperature war, if you will, of, you know, one likes it really hot, one likes it really cool. One thing that I'll share, and this is a pricey investment, but I'm sure that there are others on the market now. I'm not sponsored. I wish I was. Eight Sleep, I have one of those. And the it's the one that I have, I think is the three. I think it's the eight sleep pod. And what it is, you you can use your existing mattress and it looks like a fancy fitted sheet that goes over top of your mattress, and then it comes with something that looks like an old school computer tower. You fill it with water like every three months, and it circulates water throughout, but it can cool the bed all the way down to 55 degrees and it can heat it all the way up to 110. So one of the really cool things, and what really sold me is after a couple weeks, it learns you. So it has this autopilot mode where it can kind of sense the temperature in your environment, sense the temperature of you, and then make adjustments throughout the night to try and keep you asleep longer.
SPEAKER_03:Wow.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. But one really cool thing is if you share your bed with a bed partner, it can have autopilot on each side. It can, each person can have their own temperature controls. And I think that's a really beautiful thing because that is something that I hear time and time again of how many people just struggle with that. And and it's it's a major uh hindrance to one or both partners getting good quality sleep. So being able to drop your internal core body temperature. And one of the one of the other ways that we can do that if we're talking about hacks is about an hour before bed, take a warm shower. This might sound counterintuitive and paradoxical, but when you take a nice hot shower or warm shower, when you get out, the blood will come to the surface of the skin, it will release, and then that will help lower your internal core body temperature. So even if you're not feeling that sleepy, doing this could be one of the ways that helps biologically tell your body that it's time to feel sleepy.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Um, one of the other things that I want to mention is quiet. And I know that everybody's got preferences on this. And I like to think about it as a continuum. Lots of people tell me they like to sleep with the television on. I'm gonna talk about why that's a bad idea. There's a whole chapter on it. Whenever it comes to, and I hear this all the time that I've been doing this my whole life, you know, I'm so used to it. It's no big deal. No, it is a big deal. Because your brain, its job is it's wired to interpret language. So, you know, you're in your your program right now, you've probably heard about the um cocktail party phenomenon where you could be in this loud room, you're you're not really paying attention, you like you hear all this chatter from all these conversations, and yet you hear your name and you immediately. And that is the brain, even though it's not listening, it is listening. And it's the same thing, even if you've seen this movie before, seen this television show a million times, the brain is still listening and it's keeping it in an active state rather than getting into this deep restorative state where it has all of this repair work that it needs to do, like we talked about today and during our last episode. Um, but then the movement and the colors and the flashing on the screen, unless you're wearing an eye mask, your eyelids are very thin. That sounds gross. But you like some of that light, some of that movement can get into the brain, and that is going to cause those micro awakenings too.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Sometimes the TV program is like this, but then the commercials are like this, and it's just very disruptive. So there's a lot going on there. I just don't recommend TVs in the bedroom whatsoever. Um, but then people will ask me about music. Music with lyrics, I say is no, because uh for similar reasons. Then people ask about music that's just instrumental. And while that is less cognitively tasking, it is still your brain's still interested. It's interested in the melody and the tempo and the pattern, what's happening next. So while it's not as harmful, I still don't love that. What I would recommend for people, because I know silence, while that silence is golden, a lot of people just have a very hard time with that. And I understand it. So what I would say is finding this happy middle ground of white noise or colored noise, sounds that you would find in nature, like thunderstorms, ocean sounds, crickets, things like that. I think those are all awesome. And then one thing I'll mention that's kind of cool, and I've started to experiment with it, is Newcomb. Have you heard of them?
SPEAKER_01:I have.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. And so they they have sounds that you can listen to during sleep. My favorite is one that sounds like a thunderstorm. And essentially, it is theoretically helping you get into a deeper stage of sleep by what is underneath the tracks, not the rain sound itself. Um, so very cool. I'm I'm kind of exploring the science behind it. And so that's uh another option for folks, but you can very easily find white noise and and nature sounds anywhere um readily available for close to nothing, if not nothing.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And it's I mean, you when you're facing this problem, be willing to try, man. Uh do everything you can. Like it's important to remember when it comes to the bedroom, keep it simple. Like, you don't need a laptop in there, you don't need your cell phones in there. Get an old-fashioned alarm clock. Like, fight back, be informed, take these lessons, be willing to change stuff right now. Look, if you're desperate for sleep, like I was when I first got uh was dealing with insomnia, be willing to do everything and anything. Um, and just know that if you're getting good sleep and then all of a sudden you're back to square one dealing with insomnia, it's okay. You'll figure it out. Don't lose hope. Stay in the fight. And just understand, like, you'll get sleep again. Like, don't just don't fall into that pit of despair, which is something that's really easy to fall into when you can't get rest. Dr. Kayler, where can we go get this book today?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so it's available on Amazon and wherever books are sold. Uh, I'm the author, Dr. Leah Kaylor. It's called If Sleep Were a Drug, and we have it on ebook, we have it in paperback, and then very soon, probably by the time that this is released, audiobook, and I will be reading it to you.
SPEAKER_01:Nice. Well, I'm gonna throw a wrench of that plan because this is dropping next week. This will drop on Wednesday. Time travel Denny. Good job. You did it, bud. So proud of you. Look at you, look at you producing this stuff so fast. Man, I can't thank you enough for being here, Dr. Kaler. Uh, it's absolutely amazing to see your success and see where you're going. And I can't wait for more of you to check out her content. Go follow her on YouTube. She's making some great reels, great content to help you better understand sleep. Because it's not just as easy as closing your eyes. Trust me, I know, I deal with it. I've got an almost nine-month-old at home. But I'm lucky, she sleeps pretty damn good. Better than I do. Because just like I talked about earlier, when you're trying to do something great with her at school, being an entrepreneur, you're gonna struggle with sleep. But take it from me, give yourself rest. Figure out the most important thing you gotta do for tomorrow, knock that out, and then everything else can be on the back burner because your sleep has to come first. Guys, you can't force this thing to solve everything on one day or in a week. Give yourself some grace, get some sleep, and take care of yourself. Again, Dr. Kayler, thank you for being here. And to all y'all listening, thank you. I appreciate you. Do me a favor support the show and support the sponsor so we can grow. And more importantly, take care of yourself. And we'll see y'all next time. Till then, take care.
SPEAKER_00:Sweet dreams.
SPEAKER_01:SecureDob Podcast is proudly sponsored by Titan's Arms. Head up to the episode description and check out Titan's Arms today.
