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Bridging the Gap: Community, Justice & the Modern Veteran's Journey

• Deny Caballero • Season 7 • Episode 367

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In this powerful episode, Deny Caballero is joined by Marine Corps veteran and advocate Liz Hartman for a raw conversation on the realities of military transition, trauma, and personal growth. Together, they discuss the importance of community support, the healing power of nature, and the need for moral accountability within veteran spaces. Liz shares her own story of resilience and advocacy, challenging the veteran community to uphold higher standards, protect the vulnerable, and bridge generational divides through truth, faith, and family.

 

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SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, we don't do a really good job of reaching reaching across a divide to like an older generation of veterans.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I think that's all of us. They don't reach to us either.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Yeah. But it's like to find to find somebody that's been able to do that and be a champion of it. Um, man, I got to have you on the show to talk about. How did a modern era Marine Corps veteran become an avid spokesman and advocate for connecting with organizations like the VFW?

SPEAKER_03:

Oh man, I don't know. I moved to Newburn, North Carolina. So I'm outside of Cherry Point. And an old Vietnam veteran, Ed Hughes, who we call him Grandpa Ed now, he was like, Liz, you're not done serving. Join the American Legion. And I'm terrible at saying no. So I was like, okay. And then it kind of just stumbled out of control from there.

SPEAKER_00:

I mean, I walked into a VFW once and it wasn't, it wasn't my vibe, and I got the looks, and I'm like, you know, maybe this is not a place for me. How did you find the confidence to walk in there and be like, all right, I'm gonna go in here with these disgruntled individuals and make a go of it?

SPEAKER_03:

A lot of undue confidence. I don't know where it came from. I did nothing in the Marine Corps. I always joke about like the Tim Kennedys of the world who feel like they need to lie about their service. Because I'm just honest. I'm gonna embrace it. I was medcept, I did jack shit, never deployed. So I don't know where the confidence comes from, but I definitely have too much of it. So it's kind of just let it lead the way.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, what happened, man? Like, let's talk about that because that's um that's an experience that a lot of people don't talk about. I more often than not, when I talk to service members, that's one of the stories I hear. Man, I came in, I didn't do anything. Tell us your story, man. Tell us how you found yourself going into the Marine Corps.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, so I am from Northeast Ohio. Obviously, Go Browns, it's a sad life. So I was in college, I had been there about two years. I realized I was gonna do nothing with my life. I think a lot of us can relate to that. Wherever you grew up, you realize, you look around, people are, you know, ODing. They're that's just not what I wanted to be around anymore. So a guy I knew had joined the Marine Corps. I figured, huh, that's the branch for me. They seem like the best. I walked in, the recruiter looked me up and down, and he was like, no, wrong branch. The Air Force is down the hallway. That thoroughly pissed me off.

SPEAKER_00:

And I that really actually happened.

SPEAKER_03:

100% that happened. And it's like, I tell guys all the time, that's how you get a woman. Tell her no, and you've got her for life. So it worked for me. I joined the Marine Corps, and yeah, all downhill from there.

SPEAKER_00:

What was the downhill slope? We gotta, we gotta, we gotta be able to talk about the not so good moments.

SPEAKER_03:

So joining the Marine Corps, it was great. Um, I was contracted to be an Arabic linguist. I was sent to DLI, learned Arabic. I had studied a little bit in college, and when I was out there, went on a run, tore my hip, kept running on it, eventually got surgery on my hip. And afterwards it did not get any better. So I was medically separated for that, which makes me a very uh good candidate to talk about all this political drama with women and hits and standards.

SPEAKER_01:

Because, oh baby, I am one that can't make it.

SPEAKER_00:

Man, it's two things can be true, right? Like we can we can honor and look towards individuals that have done it. And we can honor and respect that. Like, man, like I see a lot of issues with things being angry about things we can't control. And and just like one thing that this journey has taught me is control what you can, influence the variables that you can, but when you're not in control of something, don't burn it down, don't rage again. Yeah, dude, I I know tons of badasses out there, and I can simpathi I can empathize, I can sympathize. It feels like something's being taken away from you, something's being ripped away, but at the end of the day, it's like fuck them. You you got throw the middle finger up. Throw the middle finger up, be like, okay, cool. I I did something you thought I couldn't do. I made it somewhere where you thought I couldn't make it. And if now you want to try to get rid of me if you don't think I'm important, okay, cool. I'll find a way to succeed on my own. I'll find a way to succeed somewhere else. But man, like, don't rage, don't burn it down for shit that you can't control. Like, it it's it's acceptance, man. It's looking at a situation, being able, okay, cool.

SPEAKER_03:

Like there's another path for you. Half the time when that first path is blocked, it's because you're not seeing where you're supposed to be going. So just it's harder to do that. It's a lot easier to say it, but if you can accept it and do it, then it's a lot easier.

SPEAKER_00:

Somebody watches is like, fuck you, it's not your career. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

No, I've been there, it's great. I I always joke. I think that experience makes me a lot. It definitely gives me a different perspective than most, especially when we talk about different things with the Department of War and different veteran policies. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, it's it's uh difficult times, man. Like it's but I do agree with the um the fat shaming.

SPEAKER_03:

Heck yeah. Man, I gotta say, I wasn't fat. I was still broke. So I don't know how the fatties are doing it. That's gotta be tough.

SPEAKER_00:

General Milley, I'm pretty impressed.

SPEAKER_03:

I don't understand why anyone's upset about this. Personally, I don't think people actually are upset. I think they're just desperate to throw stones at this administration, so they're gonna use that. Anybody with an ounce of intelligence realizes you should be fit to serve in the military.

SPEAKER_00:

Percent. And you're the most senior individuals out there in our formation. And if you look like a bag of ass, you should be held accountable. And that's something that we've all said for so long. It's been such a huge problem.

SPEAKER_03:

I've seen so many of these like folks say, Well, the commander in chief is fat. Well, the commander-in-chief isn't knocking down doors. Like, let's be a little realistic here. He's sitting right there.

SPEAKER_00:

Let's go. I get it. That motherfucker's probably never ran a two-mile.

SPEAKER_03:

So he can be fat until I see him on the front lines. I don't give a shit if he's fat.

SPEAKER_00:

Yep. 100%. Like it's um, yeah, it's fabricated rage bait out there. Like, I like that.

SPEAKER_01:

Fabricated rage.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. That's good. It's just looking at anything and trying to flip it to try to make it to this inflammatory inflammatory response. Like, dude, rules and regulations change so fucking much. Administration, administration. Like, I do, like I said, I sympathize. I I find that the greatest thing we can do for anybody that's feeling like fuck they're they're losing out, they're missing out. Like, if somebody in your family or close friends group is going through that, be there. Support them. Be positive. Like, let them know that, like, hey, you know what? This door's closing or this is happening, you can't control it. Let's prep for your greatest fucking mission, your next mission, which is fucking transition.

SPEAKER_03:

That's the one that really sucks, anyways, because there's no support.

SPEAKER_00:

Which, by the way, how did you fucking go through that? Like, how did you like when you look at your link when I when you go to your LinkedIn profile, you look at Liz, it's easy to say, like, holy fucking shit, dude. Like, they have it put together. How the fuck did they do this?

SPEAKER_01:

Like, I don't have it put together. It's all Hassan.

SPEAKER_03:

I don't have it put together. I gosh, I think the key to transition is just we we you already said it. It's accepting that you have no idea what's going on. It's accepting that you're gonna fail a hundred more times. Um and that was my story. I've failed a lot throughout my life. I will continue to fail. And yeah, I think I did okay in the transition. I recently transitioned another job. People don't realize there are millions of transitions you experience in life that are very similar to the military and becoming a veteran. We just don't compare them. When you become a parent, that's a transition. Those same skills that you use to go from no child to children, you use those in the transition from military to veteran. You focus on what's important, you and that's it. You make do.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, take us through that because that's gonna be a difficult mindset to approach leaving the military, having an injury while you're going through the training, you have this idea that you've conceptualized, you've seen yourself in the uniform, you're like, I'm fucking marine. I'm gonna do this thing. I'm gonna be a bad shit.

SPEAKER_01:

I actually suck.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, and then all of a sudden, which is something that we don't talk about. We talk about resilience and grit with the the cool quote and the cool picture that gives us that feeling of like, yeah, I'm gonna be resilient. I'm gonna have grit. But hey, surprise, surprise, in order to have resilience, you have to fucking get knocked down. In order to build grit, you've got to get tested. That's what nobody talks about. You gotta go through that nasty, horrible shit, get kicked down, and then bounce back.

SPEAKER_03:

I think uh it was definitely hard. I went to college after the Marine Corps. I will say the Marine Corps is the greatest thing that's ever happened to me, despite not doing shit in the Marine Corps. I got my best friend from the Marine Corps, I've gone to college for free because of the Marine Corps, joined the Marine Corps. Um, so I got my bachelor's degree, and then I went on to get my master's free because of the Marine Corps. So being able to find something to pour my focus into really helped me in the transition. I didn't have to dwell on my injury, I didn't have to dwell on how broken I was. I redirected that focus into academia. And then when that was over, that's another transition that we never talk about. I redirected it into finding a job so I could eat. And you just you find something to focus on. I think we lose our purpose when we get out of the military. You have to find a purpose, you have to find your tribe. And if you can find purpose and tribe, in any transition, you will succeed.

SPEAKER_00:

This episode is brought to you by Titan SARMS. Head on over to TitansArms.com and buy a stack today. Use my code CDny10 to get your first stack. I recommend the Lean Stack 2. Start living your best life. Titan SARM. No junk, no bullshit, just results. Yeah, we talk about that a lot in the uh the complex situation we find ourselves after we exit. Like the identity piece, the purpose, and then the feeling of being alone. That's one of the hardest things to go through. And when you don't have this history of service and deployments and schools, I have to imagine that Liz was going through this process feeling like, I can't talk to that veteran. That gal or guy is, he's they've seen combat, they've seen deployments who what the fuck do I have to compare? Like, I know, fuck that.

SPEAKER_03:

I think it's true. I don't have anything to compare it to. And what you're keying in on is something that Lieutenant Colonel Tom Schuman has keyed in on. He created an entire organization, patrol base Avade, because of this very issue. When we look at the suicide statistics, oftentimes it's those who never deployed. It's those who never saw shit, who feel so much more alone because they internalize that they are nothing. They internalize that they're not these big baddies.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

And that's where it becomes so important to realize that every single person plays a role. Even if you don't deploy, every single person plays a role. You served, you did something that less than 1% of the population will ever have the balls to do, and it's to join. You have to find value in that. It's hard. But you can also find value in your service, even if you did nothing, and also recognize these guys who did some really cool fucking shit. Find your tribe, find your patrol base abode that welcomes you despite how much or how little you did.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. That's true. Like we have to understand that even when we don't want to connect, even when we think we're just the worst, like that's when you absolutely need to.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

That's when you need it the most. I'm I'm a staunch advocate for outdoors, veteran service organizations for Patrol Base Spada, Project Healing Waters, The Fallen Outdoors. Because personally, I think there's beauty in some isolation at times, especially when you're in the wilderness. I think if people spent more time in the woods and watched animals more, they wouldn't be so terrible in their day-to-day life. Those organizations, I would encourage every veteran to join because especially when you're alone, you can get through some of those, those demons. You can fight those demons when you're in a river fly fishing. You can fight those demons when you're at the woods hunting. You can really talk to yourself, figure out what's going on, and then fight that battle a little stronger.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Is that something you found yourself pouring into a lot more, taking care of yourself? Like on the outdoors route.

SPEAKER_03:

I always joke, I'm probably the worst hunter. I'm a terrible angler. I'm genuinely a terrible angler. My cast is horrific. But I love to fish. I love to hunt. I love that isolation. I love that time with my own thoughts. I love when it's cold outside. The fall makes me cry half the time when I see the leaves and the corn stalks. I think I'm very cheesy. I probably never should have joined the Marine Corps. I love this.

SPEAKER_00:

Marine Corps for everybody. Everybody can join.

SPEAKER_03:

Even the softies. So yeah, I the outdoors has been my healing, my transition. I grew up with it. It's what has grounded me through the transition, it's what's grounded me through the dark times, has always been the outdoors.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. And it's important to want to highlight that, man. Grounded you through the dark times. A lot of people think that because you have a genuinely positive affect, you come across genuine, you're smiling, you're happy. People immediately think, well, Liz has never had a bad day. Look at her. She's gone through so much.

SPEAKER_01:

This past week was rough. This past month was rough. It was. It's rough. I just smile a lot. You know better than most. This past month was a tough one.

SPEAKER_00:

So Yeah. Yeah. It's um I always tell people you have to be a good sensor. Once you've gone through, I feel like you do have a little bit of the shining. Once you go through your journey, you get over some nasty spots, you can recognize some things in people. And it's being able to see the guys and gals that are out there smiling and doing everything for everybody, the the go-to resource, the peer-to-peer supporters, they need help too. They need resources.

SPEAKER_03:

Someone reached out to me, I think it was two days ago, and they're like, Liz, we're doing a buddy check on you. We think you've probably had a bad week. And I was like, thank you.

SPEAKER_01:

Like, thank you. I needed this. And I also was so proud of them. I was like, oh, you recognize.

SPEAKER_00:

Like what was a really rough thing for you this past month?

SPEAKER_03:

Well, I called out a pedophile online, and then apparently I became the devil for saying that pedophiles should burn in hell. Um, what a world we're living in.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, you know, I um I had a uh a very insane talk with somebody that would not understand why I because I did an interview or a podcast episode on it um for you guys listening. It's about the issue at MIC with um Parade Deck. Now we'll continue to advocate against them. Um dismantle it, burn it down, let me know when it's on fire. I'll come, I'll bring popcorn. But um really good people were there. Uh shout out to you, Kayla. Um, just amazing. Strong women, strong advocates, because when you like I'm a I'm a survivor of it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Just pause for a second because my mom's walking in and the dog is gonna go ape shit. She's the best dog.

SPEAKER_00:

No, we're trying to move back to Florida, ASAP, because that's where my wife's family's at. And um when you don't have, when you don't grow up with like healthy family, the moment you see a healthy family that loves each other and supports each other, I want my kid. I want my kid.

SPEAKER_03:

Are you the one without the healthy family?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, yeah. I come from a really fucked up background. Real, real fucked up. Heads why the MIC incident hit me so hard because nobody ever called the cops on this guy.

SPEAKER_03:

My partner's gonna you're gonna have to tee us up on this. T us up so we can talk about this once she's out of the room. But yeah, you gotta move with your wife.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

It'll heal you, I think, being there and seeing your kids get to experience it.

SPEAKER_00:

Watching, watching uh my in-laws with with Izzy is one of the greatest things on earth. Like seeing good, like, I don't like having a lot of sugar and sweets, artificial stuff in the house, but I know the love from that generation is in like sugary. So, like, I left, I went on the business trip, I come back home, my cupboards are filled with the the nerd the Hershey syrups, the ice creams, the candy stuff. And I'm like, she's still an infant, Charles. What are you doing?

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, but you know that's their way of showing love.

SPEAKER_00:

Percent. And if that's what the yeah, and when when they're here, you know, my wife and then they're having the ice cream, the cookies, and I see how pure and how how loving and warm the environment is. And I'm like, that's what I want my kid to grow up with. That's what I want them to see. We don't know how long uh your family's gonna be with the older.

SPEAKER_03:

It could end tomorrow.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, and I want I want my little one and future little ones to have grandma and grandpa be able to come over anytime they want, like anytime they want. And that's something that I see like when your family's willing to drive up three hours, that's you know, for for people for for Charles. My my father-in-law, he's got a bad back. And that man gets into his truck and he drives up here, never complains about it one time. And he's just happy and thrilled to just be hanging out with Izzy. And it's just like, that's family, that's what you do, and that's like our biggest, biggest motivation to get back down to Florida is so that we can wake up and be like, oh, there's Charles and Joanne, like they're already here hanging out with the kids. Like, that's what we want.

SPEAKER_03:

Like, that's and the thing is, it's it's healing for you because you didn't see it, and it's healing for the parents also, because yeah, I always question like, how do you love this so much? And gosh, when you have good Grammys and Grampies, they love it, they exist for those little ones, they provide them a love we couldn't have. And hopefully, you know, I I talked about it recently. I think we really left traditional values and we shouldn't have.

SPEAKER_00:

100 fucking percent. Holy shit, yeah. You can have strength. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

And there's something so beautiful in cheesy Sunday afternoons with home cooked meals and family around the football. Like that, there's nothing wrong with that. It's beautiful. You can have a strong career, you can knock down those doors, you can be a businesswoman, but gosh, you can also love coming home to your husband and your kids. And there's nothing wrong with that.

SPEAKER_00:

There's nothing we don't talk about. That my wife does both. My wife's a fucking leader, still in the military, still kicking ass. Like the shit she did, with her deployments.

SPEAKER_03:

Tiny little blonde women can't get shit done.

SPEAKER_00:

My wife's a fucking absolute badass. But when we come home, like she's she's the one that took care of me when I went through my my worst fucking downfall, my spiral. She's the one that brought our family back into the faith. Like, you can have a family, be a strong woman, and have have the life at home that people have told us for for eons now that that's that's not the modern way that you should have a family. That's that's outdated. And like, fuck that. A strong father at home.

SPEAKER_02:

Fuck that.

SPEAKER_00:

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SPEAKER_03:

It is and it we we didn't realize it when we were younger because it sounds like you and I, despite being man and woman, had very similar messages pushed to us. I was told, you know, you should reject this feminine lifestyle, you should chase the career, chase business. There is something so peaceful about being able to come home to my home, to my family. And I think I don't know at all. I don't know at all. But I think when women really look into themselves, nurturing is a huge part of what heals all women. It sounds like your wife was a tremendous nurturer for you. And it traditional values, man. This is what the podcast is now about. 100%.

SPEAKER_00:

I I'm I'm here for it. This is security haunt, man. We go one way, we go on the other, we're V, we come back in, we pivot. But I like I said earlier, we were talking about the culture. Family wasn't put in faith. Nobody talked about faith in a team room, nobody talked about being a husband. My dream, I I wish, like if you want to make the best individuals in the military, have open discussions about finding the right partner, having family, promoted. We don't talk about the importance of family in the military. No, uh, you know, family, whatever. If you got a wife, I feel sorry for you. That shit was said all the time.

SPEAKER_03:

No, you should be talking about it so people are excited. Oh, this will warm your heart. So I went to the battalion commander change of command for School of Infantry Advanced Training Battalion. Oh my goodness. So two of the individuals speaking spoke about their faith and how important God was in their success in the Marine Corps. And then the kids. So the CEO who was overseeing the change of command brought the kids up. He whispered just to them. It was so personal. When you looked at the audience, kids were crawling over their mom and dad, their dad's in uniform, their mom's right there. And I was like, this is the Marine Corps. This is what it should be. These guys are better warriors because they have this strong family unit who can support them, because they're not doing this alone, and because they have a chain of command that recognizes the importance of family and faith.

SPEAKER_00:

Absolutely. Absolutely. Like it's made me a better person. When I look back and I reflect, I don't want to say, like, oh, I wish I would have changed it. I don't pine over it. I don't, I don't give it that, that have that sorrow in my the pit on my stomach saying, God, I did it all wrong. Because if if I went back in time, changed everything, I would probably wouldn't be here.

SPEAKER_03:

We wouldn't be who we are today. Exactly. We wouldn't appreciate the family now if we hadn't had that mentality years ago. That's such an important point.

SPEAKER_00:

It makes when I I know speaking just for myself, I don't want to speak for others, but the moment that little girl came into my life, like I've never worked harder, harder than ever, lost more sleep because I have this drive to provide for her. Like it is the greatest catalyst for growth. Like, and I'm not talking about like, oh man, you're gonna go to the gym and just crush it because you got a kid at home. Like, no, like I'm talking about grinding to the point where like you get two hours of sleep, like, cool, I'm gonna stay up, I'm gonna keep going because I gotta build something for this kid. Like, I'm gonna take an extra, extra course load so I can get done with school a lot faster. Because these years, she's not gonna remember shit right now, but I don't want to be doing schoolwork, a PhD, a master's program when she's able to crawl, run, and play. Fuck that. I'll kill myself and go without sleep now where the memories aren't being because when she finally starts putting things together, she has those core memories. I want her to be like, I don't know what the hell my dad ever did. He was retired and he just ran a business, but he was always around me. We always went out and did things. Like my schedule's packed now, and I do crazy amount of work because the moment that little one can start mem remembering things and talking, like, y'all motherfuckers don't mean shit to me.

SPEAKER_03:

I mean, I think that's the animal in us. A lot of people are gonna get pissed when I say this, but if we compare ourselves to animals, you exist to keep yourself alive until you have an offspring. And the moment that little one comes out, it's not about you anymore. You fulfilled your purpose. So many people are gonna be pissed. I say this that our purpose is to have little ones, whatever.

SPEAKER_00:

It is, it is, absolutely. And for men, it's to be a father and husband. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

That's the point. Once they come out, I think it's that animal animalistic, you know, sense in us. Okay, we we brought them into the world. Now our entire point is to keep them safe and to raise them. And I think that is why I was so fucking pissed when this parade deck shit popped off. I was appalled that the most innocent little babies in the world were not being, in my mind, protected. And that's what that's what made me so darn angry.

SPEAKER_00:

The thing, and and I, of course, like have to be 100% transparent. Like, yeah, uh a huge factor of my outrage and anger comes from the fact that I experienced horrible shit as a kid. And look, I get it. I and I I went to confession, I I talked about this because you have to be able to understand that like the violent nature in us and the things that we would do to people, they're not compatible. You're supposed to ask for, you know, be you're not supposed to think about these things, you're gonna ask for forgiveness. But when people, this one individual asks me, he's like, what should we do with them? Like 20, 25 cents and and in in the back of a truck and into a freaking, you know, uh Lamar Grave. Like, I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_03:

100%.

SPEAKER_00:

Like you have done. This is our opinion. Legal disclaimer, this is our opinion. Like, I don't care what you do, but you shouldn't be the front face of a fucking company. You shouldn't be the founder and be celebrated. And the thing that really broke my heart was that people knew.

SPEAKER_03:

Oh, so many people knew. So, I mean, if you don't mind, I'll share this because I'm gonna, you said burn it down. Let's burn it down, baby. Let's go. You know, when this all popped off, it popped off because of a video that Janae Sergio, I think it's how you say your name, posted to Instagram, which has since been taken down. And in the video, she admits she knew. And then so many people came out and said, Well, yeah, I knew too. I've known for months. And I was livid because a month ago, I was at the VFW National Convention at the parade deck stage, speaking with parade deck with my at the time, three-month-old daughter in the audience with my mother. And I don't care if he wasn't there. I never would have been around that organization had I known what I know now. And for all of these people, I I I did I it's been a dark month because I thought this was an easy thing for people to come together on. I thought we could easily see, okay, children, children more than anything. I never knew so many pedophile apologists were in the world. I never knew so many people would make excuses. I had people saw a little bit of what was going on on the front end, but the back end of what I had been receiving was, I think, some of the most vile evil I've I've ever had to read through. I had numerous people say, Well, did you look into the circumstances of his conviction? And I this rule, this role raised There are no circumstances which justify a 40-year-old man violating and hurting a 12-year-old child. Fuck you. There's no circumstances which justify that. And people kept saying it. You know, at one point I had someone reach out and say, Well, I'm sure you're just going after him because you have postpartum depression.

SPEAKER_00:

What the fuck?

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah. It got so dark on the back end. And I and then I had people come out and say, Well, you should be more like Erica Church and forgive him. And I found myself questioning, did Erica Church get on a stage and say her husband's assassin should be released? Did Erica Kirch say her husband's assassin should be released and then no one should know about what he's done? These it I was living in, I don't know what I was living in for that past month where I was like, Why are so many people adamantly defending him?

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

And then I just so angry, just so much. And you're right, we're not supposed to have this anger. We're not supposed to be, you know, vengeance is the Lord's. So how do you seek justice and seek safety, but also not get so vengeful? I don't know. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00:

My biggest thing is putting it out there and letting people know. Um I I don't think that if if you're listening, you're a creator in this space and you're still on parade deck, I think you got to be able to vote with your.

SPEAKER_03:

You're complicit.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

I'm gonna go full, I'll go out there. If you're a creator on parade deck, especially if you're a creator with millions and millions and millions of followers and you're still on that platform, you're complicit. Because yes, Andrew Appleton is a pedophile. But every single one of you who knows, who knew, all of you who knew and kept it a secret, you have an issue. And then all of you who now Know who continue to support this organization. Fuck you too.

SPEAKER_00:

This episode is brought to you by Pure Liberty Labs. Quality supplements designed to elevate your health and performance. Check out their full line of quality supplements. Whether you're looking for whey protein, pre-workout, creatine, or super greens drink, Pure Liberty Labs has you covered. Use my code SecurityHall10 at checkout today. It's crazy to me that people are okay with it. And I think that's part of a concerted effort that started a long time ago to normalize this these sick and twisted behaviors within our culture and society. You normalize one thing that should not be promoted amongst decent, law-abiding, human American citizens. You normalize this behavior that should be kept between adults, maybe in some far-off back room by themselves, never normalized and brought out into the light. You normalize it, and then it's a slippery slope. Now you can do it. Very slippery slope. You can make it a lot of things.

SPEAKER_03:

And he said, he asked me, he was like, How does truth die? I was like, I don't know. And he said, one word at a time, Liz. And going back to this parade deck thing, because I am burning it all down. Okay. Um, call my attorney. Teresa Carpenter released a video saying, well, Andrew Appleton was convicted of a sexual assault offense. No, he wasn't. He pled guilty to pedophilia, to child molestation. And I think that goes back to what Dakota was saying, to what you're saying. It's a slippery slope. Our words matter. Yes. This isn't a sexual assault conviction, a sexual assault violation. This is a grown man molesting a child. And until people are willing to own up to their words, I don't know how we're ever going to heal this nation.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. And again, it it baffles me that people can't draw that line. Like I understand. I understand. I had to come a long way to understand. There's some things are gray. Two things can be true. Not in this. Not in this. This is not something where you sit down and you say, well, the circumstances, no, fuck that. Yeah. This is an innocent child. An innocent child.

SPEAKER_03:

Whose life is ruined. And then I had all these fuckers come out and say, well, he served his time. How long do you want him to serve his time? To your point, it is my humble opinion that the federal government, not a vigilante, should take him out. Because that kid has to deal with this trauma the rest of their life. Fuck him for being able to go on and build a company. Unless you're telling me every dime of profit from parade deck is now going to his victim, which it's not. All of you guys are making money off parade deck, and this poor victim has to deal with the ramifications for their life. Fuck these people. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Sorry. It's a no, fuck no. No, hell no. Fuck it all day. Fuck that dude. Fuck that dude. Fuck the board. Fuck everybody that was involved with it. Uh, you're fucking disgusting. You're complicit. All you motherfuckers knew. And the people are trying to use words and verbal. I mean, the gymnastics and thinking. What do we do with these people? I'll tell you what we do. We don't let them come to the forefront of our society and support them and uplift them. Let them be part of our normal engagement. I get it. Not everybody wants violence, and not everybody is ready to just say end their life. Understand. What about a trailer park in the middle of fucking some place in Missouri?

SPEAKER_03:

I'm down with that. Can we just shame them? Yeah. I will say good did come out of this, man. My circle got small real quick. Um, and then good came out of it. I met you through this. Dan Horgan, who you know, I would I would die for Dan. He's the happiest little cheesecake delivery. He's such a good dude. Dan reached out and just embraced me and said, We've got your back. Good people came out of this. And I will say at the end of the day, if I had to look for the silver lining, it was that I realized the people I thought were good friends, not good friends, but us good associates, they'll never be near my children now. I mean, I quickly learned I don't want any of you around my children. All of you creators who are still aligning yourselves with Parade Deck, I don't want you anywhere near my family.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. It's you made it really well known in a matter of few days, like where you stood with it. Um, shout out to everybody that immediately fucking parted ways with them.

SPEAKER_03:

Marine Corps Association. Oh my gosh, within hours. And that is, oh my gosh, let's go back to the beginning of this conversation. We talk shit about these old, you know, veteran organizations. Marine Corps Association was on it. They dropped their relationship with Parade Deck immediately. They didn't ask any questions, they did it. Go join Marine Corps Association. Some of these, we talk about traditional values. It's those older veterans who get it, who care. And oh gosh.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Yeah, it makes it really simple for me to say, nah, you're you're you're a public fucking enemy number one to me. If you're still debating the issue, talking positively, and you're asking that I won't say the person's name. Um, I think this individual is, you know, I don't think that they will have their their day where they're brought to um brought to the light. Um And the only reason why is because they got me as I was going to mass. They got me as I was going to mass, and I'm like, you know, you want to talk about this? Got 30 minutes, let's talk about it. Or you reach me when I get out of mass, and they got me out of mass, and I had to go to confession that day, and I talked to my priest, talked about what I was going through, what that person had brought out, because the moment you talk about this, it brings back everything you went through as a kid. Nobody fucking arrested this guy. This dude was free and clear to put me and my family through hell my entire fucking life. The moment we met him to the moment I ran away from home. People knew, people in the community knew there was something wrong. And nobody stopped up.

SPEAKER_02:

Nobody stepped up.

SPEAKER_00:

No, nobody did a fucking thing. Nobody did a fucking thing. Uh I'm glad he's dead. I'm glad that he he's in a small veteran uh burial plot. Nobody showed up for his fucking funeral, nobody was there for him. Um that I infinitely trust God's judgment. He ultimately, every prayer that I asked for as a kid, every time I prayed for intervention, I now understand that he gave me everything on the back side, made me a strong individual, an advocate for those who can't speak up like right now. And that's why I'm so passionate about this to tell you like if you don't understand and you're one of you think that you're being a good person by saying people need a second chance. I'm here to tell you they don't, not everybody deserves a second chance. When you do something so vile, so disgusting, it shouldn't be celebrated. You shouldn't be giving them a place at your table. You should be able to look at somebody and say, that's the line you can't cross, and now you don't belong amongst society. That's what we need to move back to. Even prisoners draw that line. And that's the thing. That's the thing that really gets you. You make a social contract theory. All of us buy in to live here in the United States and be contributing members of society. All of us have agreed to be the best version of ourselves outside, to not break the laws, to be good abiding citizens. And one thing we forgot to talk about was the things you don't fucking do. And we don't hold people accountable anymore. No, we don't hear allowing- We're too afraid to say it.

SPEAKER_03:

It's part of that slippery slope that you talked about. People are afraid if they say what they truly believe, they're gonna be canceled. Well, I'm here to tell you, I don't give a shit if I'm canceled. Cancel me. Because you there are some things you don't forgive. You don't allow them into polite society. If a prisoner will not allow it in a prison, why are we allowing it in our society? I you you keep talking about how you're going to mass. So we're gonna pivot again. I'm I want to know because I I've been reading Dakota Meyer made a beautiful video and he referenced Matthew where it said that Jesus said that if you to bring one of my little ones to sin, a millstone should be brought around your neck. And so that is this, you know, powerful expression of justice. But then as I read through Isaiah, I read through Micah, it talks about justice and how we should seek justice. We should protect the little ones, but also vengeance is not mine, it's the Lord's. So, what did your priest, what did the confession, what it, whatever you're willing to share, how have you been battling those two justice first vengeance?

SPEAKER_00:

Well, I like to I like to start off by um, he's gotten to know me pretty well because I do go in there with like I always think that like my wife goes into confession. She's like, Oh, yeah, you know, today I stepped on a fly and and I I I farted in church. It's like, all right, uh, not a sin, but okay. Uh to hell marriage.

SPEAKER_03:

For letting me know.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. I go in there with like, hey, you know, uh, I had uh had an incident on the way to daycare. I wanted to kill a man, and uh, I could vividly watch myself choking this man out because he wasn't driving fast enough. Uh and it's just like he pauses and he's like, My child, you are you've been led astray for so long. But no, uh, I I did break down the A, taking the Lord's name in vain in that situation and and reliving a lot of the stuff that I went through and seeing this person being celebrated as a business owner, a successful person, it takes you down this avenue of thinking, right? You quickly spiral. It and then I allowed myself to go down this pathway of negative thinking, and I realized, okay, now I'm I'm angry at this person, and I want to just snap, grab them by the neck and explain to them that no matter how much they're fucking talking in circles about forgiveness and what do they do, I just wanted to reach through the phone and email and choke her the fuck out. Because now you're disrupting my peace by not understanding that no matter what the fuck you say to me, you're not gonna get this answer of understanding this person. But it's a repeated engagement in the thinking of this is how why are you thinking this way? Why are you going against parade deck? Why would you say such things? And I'm like, you don't fucking get it. Some things are 100% black and white, and that rage was building up with me all the way in the drive, and finally go in, go in a little early, sit down, wait my turn to go to confession and have to bring that up. It's like I I have these this visceral anger and frustration, and I want to hurt somebody.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

And I'm not gonna act out on it, but it is I'm not even supposed to have that in me. It's not, it's not, it's not, it's not computing, and it doesn't align with let it go. You're here for church, you're here for mess. Why are you stuck in this cycle of rage and wanting to hurt somebody? And I would never, I'm not going to drive to hurt somebody.

SPEAKER_03:

We're not calling for vigilanteism. We're talking about our feelings.

SPEAKER_00:

But it's that feeling of like, yeah, you're so fucking stupid. Someone should beat you within an inch of your life to express to you how stupid you are for thinking this way. Because I suffered as a child, and you can't put yourself in that mindset of seeing a fucking child being hurt. And sitting there and having discussing it, and then of course, you know, like you you make your penance and you go out there and pray, and then praying before mass and the seeking that that, hey, I don't have to let this take over me. I have my stance on this. I understand I have to let go of this hate, this rage of somebody who shouldn't matter in my fucking life. They shouldn't be at the forefront of my mind, but they caught me in a moment where it was just like, how the fuck? Because it puts you right back in that feeling of like seeing yourself as a helpless kid and other people not want to do a fucking thing.

SPEAKER_03:

This was good for me. I didn't expect this to turn into such a therapy session because it was it was difficult for me because I wanted everyone to know. I wanted every single person to know. And you're right, it that that old quote like if you stare under the abyss for too long, it starts to look back at you.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

And that darkness, that rage inside of you, we have no place for it. And that was a really difficult thing to to struggle with. How do I tell everyone in the world that this is a pedophile and we shouldn't be dealing with this pedophile and we shouldn't be worshiping him, but also not let it that rage come through. And I I was on a podcast earlier this week, and we talked about the two Marines who, you know, yeah took they let that rage bubble up too far.

SPEAKER_00:

Yep.

SPEAKER_03:

And they I think this goes back to the traditional values, to mass, to all these things we've been talking about. There has to come a point where we just say, like, our mind can't handle this. This is the Lord's. I don't want to deal with this anymore. You can deal with this.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

It's all you, buddy.

SPEAKER_00:

I I I can advocate and I can talk against it. I don't have to let it consume me and bring it to the point where like it's not it's not in my control. And the only thing I can say is be have to be the shining light where people maybe they don't feel confident that they can act they can speak out. But just maybe, just maybe, if they can hear me drawing the line in the sand and saying no, it can give them the strength to say, you know what? I'm gonna stand and I'm gonna say no to.

SPEAKER_03:

That's the goal. Like, I don't want anyone to listen to this and think I have my life put together. I don't. I have no idea what's going on most days. I suck at the transition, but I want I want people out there to know that there are advocates that when we say we advocate for victims, we actually do. And we will protect children. That is a line in the sand. We are gonna make sure they're okay, and we're gonna call on all of these people who victimize children to be punished. There's nothing wrong with that. It's okay, and we can get back to that place in society where we can call pedophiles pedophiles.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Yeah, and then the the sad thing is there's um there's no shortage of creeps out there.

SPEAKER_02:

Oh, there's okay, so you open it up, Redus.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, no, this is uh I just got this message from um my buddy from Vet Claims.

SPEAKER_03:

Okay, I think I know where you're going.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

So I I think you know this. I don't know if you know this, whatever. If you don't, let's go here. I try to talk about veteran organizations, I think are scumbags. It's my thing, it's my niche. It gets my rage out when I like twitter fingers over here. So one company I, you know, deeply despise is Vetcom, ran by Kate Monroe. Her name is actually Katie Eatman. She was born Katie Eatman. Um, you know, she formally changed her name to Kate Monroe. I would argue it's so she could be a little more like Marilyn Monroe. She's got the Marilyn Monroe too. Look her up.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, yeah, VECOM USS. Yeah. Yep.

SPEAKER_03:

Her chief technology officer, Tim Lawless, is actually Tim Gomez.

SPEAKER_00:

Tim Gomez, yes. Timothy Gomez.

SPEAKER_03:

Tim Gomez is a sex offender. Tim Gomez is a child molester. Tim Gomez is a pedophile. Very similar case to the Andrew Appleton case. Very similar charges. I believe it was Penal Code 88A in California. Lewd and Levicious, I can't say that word.

SPEAKER_00:

Lewd and Lewd and Levicious. Yeah, Levicious. Levicious. I don't know.

SPEAKER_03:

However, you say it. Acts with a child under 14. He is actively involved with Vetcom. He's on their videos. Vetcom posts their gosh awful obnoxious videos to X, to Twitter, to Facebook every day. And the reason this is so important, veterans are more likely than the rest of society to have double trauma, whatever that formal scientific word is.

SPEAKER_00:

It's true. It's true.

SPEAKER_03:

Whatever the there's a real word for it. It's not double trauma. That's what I'm calling it. So women who experienced men who experienced sexual trauma in their childhood should not have to deal with VECOM. You should not be going to VECOM for healing, VETCOM for support, when their chief technology officer is a pedophile.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. And he's he's for front facing on videos on YouTube. I'll put a video. Yeah, there's a picture of him right here. Right here. Let's put it out there. Right there.

SPEAKER_03:

I'm screaming. I'm sorry, I'm screaming on this podcast. What gets me going, and I've talked about Tim Gomez in the past, I've talked about Tim Lawless in the past, I've talked about Katie Eatman, Kate Monroe. What does it say about people? If you have to change your name legally so many times, you're probably a piece of shit. Legal. That's just my opinion. That's just my opinion. Legal disclaimer. You're probably a piece of shit. And if someone knows that you are a pedophile and you've molested children and they continue to work with you, they continue to put you on video, they continue to amplify you, they are equally guilty. Not of the same crime, but they're equally guilty in my eyes of I don't want anything to do with them. They don't belong in the veteran sphere.

SPEAKER_00:

Hundred fucking percent.

SPEAKER_03:

Not not rocket science.

SPEAKER_00:

How many, and this is the thing, like we each one of these cases now brings a question to mind of how many of these individuals are out there.

SPEAKER_03:

I don't I I doing the same thing.

SPEAKER_00:

Doing the same thing.

SPEAKER_03:

So I reached out to a good friend, Tab Bartley, who, if you don't know her, she's a sweetie pie. And I told her I was like, I think the thing that's killing me right now is how many people exist like this. And how many places have I taken my family where there have been predators hiding in veteran communities? The American Legion, go back to them, the Department of Nebraska, their vice commander, spent multiple years in prison for brutally torturing, beating, and raping his ex-wife while his children were rooms over in the same house. Sentenced for it, convicted, went to prison for years. And the American Legion, these members in their American Legion hats that we all like to make fun of, go to the court and they lobby and advocate for him to be pardoned. There's no fucking place for it. Like they're I'm tying so much together. I'm sorry, but it all makes me angry. And I don't know how many of these bad guys are out there. And I just someone could send me a list of all the bad guys, that way we could all know, and then we don't have to talk to any of them.

SPEAKER_00:

That's what we need. We need a watchdog organization. And it's easy to say, I get it. It's easy for me to say this that we need somebody to step in to do the mad hours, to do the research and find these individuals and make a list. I know that's a lot of work. That's a lot of nights and no sleep. We have time for your family. We have time for your for your kids. I get it. But we need something.

SPEAKER_03:

We need something. You know, one of these dumbasses, I'll tell you their name afterwards, reached out to me and they're like, oh, I'm gonna report you for harassment, for doxing, because you doxed the pedophile. I don't know who needs to hear this, but for your audience, publicly posting a publicly available sex offender registry to protect the public is not doxing. You can do that. So if you do want to take up this crusade and share these bad guys, legally you can do that.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

You are allowed to share pedophiles, sex offender registries. That's why they're public.

SPEAKER_00:

And we need to, we need like it doesn't, if you if it doesn't resonate with you and and bring like some anger to the surface of how now we've talked about Parade Deck and now we talk about VETCOM, like next week. I guarantee now people are there's a small group and it's growing of people are gonna start looking because you don't belong anywhere, and you certainly don't belong in the veteran space. Like you shouldn't be free and clear to live life like a normal human being.

SPEAKER_03:

There's this, oh my gosh, this is such a good conversation. There's this growing belief in the veteran community, at least I believe there is, that once you serve you're impenetrable. You can go do whatever you want because you once served in the military, you deserve all the benefits in the world. No, no, no, no, no, no. Just because you served in the military does not mean you're above the law. If anything, the law should apply more to you because you were in the military. Yeah. You should know better. So I think that's part of this. These people think, well, I'm a veteran, so I can get away with it. That's a problem that we need to squash. We need to police our own.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. 100 fucking percent. And if you're out there and you've dealt with VETCOMs or any organization that um come to find out has people that are on a fucking pedophile watch list, send the list to us. Send us any information on anybody that you know that's worked with an organization like that. Uh, because man, like this this is.

SPEAKER_03:

I'm not paid by anyone, so I would love to share it. I have an attorney for these moments. Just send me whatever you like, I'll blast it for you.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. And it's like, I don't care. Come after me. Um, you you don't deserve to be out in the public. You don't deserve to be part of our communities. That the line has to be drawn and it needs to be us talking about this, engaging and normalizing that some people need to be shunned.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

100 fucking percent.

SPEAKER_03:

You said some people need to be shot, right?

SPEAKER_00:

No, shunned. Shunned.

SPEAKER_03:

We're all gonna go pray after this episode and be like, Lord, I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_00:

I did my rosary before we started.

SPEAKER_03:

Were you raised Catholic?

SPEAKER_00:

So originally, so I'm originally from Panama, um, baptized Catholic, and then when we were brought here to state, um, that we were forced to go to Methodist, and it was never my faith. It was never mine. Um, and I walked away from my faith for a very long time.

SPEAKER_01:

Same.

SPEAKER_00:

Um, and luckily by the grace of God, that was like the last pillar that I I was finally brought to it because of my wife. Uh, and that was the the last thing I needed was to build that pillar back. And, you know, if you're a person of faith, I understand forgiveness and letting things go. But again, you can say and you can draw the line of like, no, you don't belong here. You need to go make peace with God. You need to go pray, you need to go and be isolated and make penance and talk to God and and ask for forgiveness and live out your life, you know, in solitude, in prayer. And and that's that's honestly what I think you need uh when you've done something so so disgusting, so horrible.

SPEAKER_03:

You can't come back from it.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

I just I truly don't believe you can come back from it, and I truly don't believe you have a place in society. You can't come back from it. And for everyone who says, you know, a lot of the people reached out and said, well, he deserves to make an honest living, nothing is honest about hiding it.

SPEAKER_00:

Exactly. Wear a big fucking signage.

SPEAKER_03:

If you had worn that sign, if all of your participants knew, which many of us did not know, that's an honest living. Make an honest living, say own up to it, buddy, and then let us determine if we're gonna work with you. Oh goodness gracious. We all need to go pray after this episode.

SPEAKER_00:

Like, thanks for got so many, so many horrible jokes that I want to use right now, but I know most of you. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_03:

I did not I didn't think it was gonna be this fun.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, it it's well, I mean it you gotta be able to laugh through it. You gotta be able to say, like, fuck, like this is a fucked up situation. Like, who would have thought we'd be here having to advocate for normal things like don't normalize pedophilia or thought of million wheel?

SPEAKER_03:

You know, but also go to church. It's okay to have a family. This has been such a weird episode for your platform. Like you cover things that you never cover.

SPEAKER_00:

No, this is a no this is another normal Friday. I got we gotta go bring it back full circle. I mean, it's um you know, we we're raised in the military to have standards, to have a mode of honor. To bring them back, and we need to bring it back. Like our values that we, you know, we come in the military, whether you're Marine Corps or Army, they give you those values because by and large, uh, the vast majority, you know, you came from broken homes. You didn't have honor, integrity, selfless service, and you didn't have these things built. So they give you that those little honor cards in the army. You got your honor cards, your army values, and you learn those. And by and large, for a lot of people, that sticks with you, be an honorable duty. I'm gonna be an honorable man, I'm gonna focus on my selfless service, duty to country, and I'm gonna be the best I can be. And you go through your entire career, and then you get out. You don't just throw away those values.

SPEAKER_03:

You No, you don't throw them away. They're still there. I think a lot of people hide behind the title, and they take advantage of the veterans who uphold those values even after service. Just because you're a veteran does not make you you can be a veteran and you can still be a bad person that need to pay for what you've done. If anything, and I'll stand by this until I die. Veterans should be held to a higher standard, not a lower standard because you serve. This is not a time. Man, honor, courage, commitment.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. You have to remember them. You have to remember them. And it it's with you 24-7. Not when it's convenient, not when it's easy, but when you're not when you're taking a paycheck from a company.

SPEAKER_03:

I don't care if you're taking a paycheck from the company. I don't care if you're applying to be their CEO and so you don't want to blast it to the high heavens because it's convenient for you not to say it. You have to, I have to stand by these things 100% of the time.

SPEAKER_00:

Fuck yeah. You gotta find find your backbone. Find your backbone.

SPEAKER_03:

And in that, I think you'll find your tribe.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

And then your transition will be easy.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes. There we go. Full circle moment. That's what we like here. Well, Liz, if people want to connect with you, where can they go?

SPEAKER_03:

Um, they go to my LinkedIn, Liz Hartman. Yeah, my LinkedIn. You can find me on Instagram. I blast out, you know, more timely announcements about stuff like this through my Instagram because it's a lot easier. But I deleted my Facebook. I deleted my ex, and life has been so good since I've done that. LinkedIn or Instagram.

SPEAKER_00:

Heck yeah. Well, I can't wait for those twisted sick fucks that want to fucking normalize this shit to come after me. Feel free to hit me up on my email podcast at gmail.com. Probably tell you.

SPEAKER_03:

You've got me going. I'll go blast.com right now. I I'll like dig out my old piece about Tim Lawless and blast it again for everyone who didn't read it.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, please do. And and again, if you don't know who that fuckhead is, here he is. Here's his picture right there.

SPEAKER_03:

This is so fun. Can you put up a picture of Kate Monroe that looks like Marilyn Monroe also for me?

SPEAKER_00:

Deal.

SPEAKER_03:

With the blonde hair, it would mean a lot for me.

SPEAKER_00:

That's uh, you know, you gotta you gotta choose your company. And if you're choosing to be around those individuals, just let me know. You need help. You need help.

SPEAKER_03:

You need help, but also let me know so that I don't have to be around you. This is not wrong, thank you.

SPEAKER_00:

It's not that hard, folks. Just be a good human being, go to church, start a family, be a person of faith.

SPEAKER_03:

Look at us. Look at us. That like meme. This is good.

SPEAKER_00:

It's been awesome, man. I can't thank you enough for being here. Thank you. Guys, do me a favor. Go on, you know, episode's over. You know the spiel. Pause, go to episode description, click those links, support us. Uh if you feel the same way we do, I want to hear from you. If you don't, I don't want to hear from you because I don't fucking care. You need Jesus. Uh, this has been a great episode to talk about normal human being repulsion to sick, disgusting fucking people. And if you don't find yourself having that that repulsive feeling when you talk about these individuals, Not the podcast for you, but to everybody else, thank y'all for tuning in. Come on in. And we'll see y'all next time. Till then, take care. Secure to have a podcast is proudly sponsored by Titan's Arms. Head up to the episode in the description and check out Titans Arms today.

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Deny Caballero

Host