Self-Care, Resilience & Healing: A Doctor’s Journey Beyond Traditional Medicine

SPONSORED BY: TITAN SARMS, PRECISION WELLNESS GROUP, and THE SPECIAL FORCES FOUNDATION

In this episode of Security Halt!, host Deny Caballero sits down with Mike, an emergency physician, outdoorsman, and advocate for alternative mental health treatments. Together, they explore the importance of self-care, resilience, and the grounding power of the outdoor life—from hunting traditions and fatherhood moments to reconnecting with nature as a form of therapy. Mike discusses the challenges of medical education, the realities of emergency medicine, and the damaging stigma around mental health within the healthcare system. The conversation also dives into psychedelic therapy, the limitations of traditional medicine, the influence of Big Pharma, and the need for community support—especially for veterans navigating trauma and recovery. This episode highlights the empowerment that comes from knowledge, advocacy, and a willingness to embrace new paths to healing.

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Chapters

• 0:00 Sponsors, Sleep, And Skipped Meals
• 1:16 Meet Mike: ER Doc With Grit
• 2:55 TBI, Lost Plans, And Med School
• 8:39 Growing Up Hunting And Providing
• 11:36 Why Outdoor Traditions Still Matter
• 15:16 Nature As Therapy And Access
• 18:28 Med School Stress And Fishing
• 22:05 Choosing Emergency Medicine
• 26:45 The Hidden Cost Of ER Trauma
• 31:20 VA Care, Debt, And Incentives
• 36:00 Confidence, Arrogance, And Good Doctors
• 40:10 Pharma, Research, And System Design
• 45:30 Psychedelics, Healing, And Agency
• 51:05 Identity Loss And Purpose After Service
• 55:40 Stigma, Licensure, And Provider Suicide
• 1:01:10 Building Prep’Em Wild: The Why
• 1:06:20 Real-World Kits That Actually Help
• 1:11:20 Beyond Tourniquets: What To Do Right
• 1:17:00 Training, Law Enforcement, And Gaps
• 1:20:35 Resources, Community, And Closing

Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 0:01

Podcast is proudly sponsored by Titan, Petition Woman's Group, and Pure Liberty Lab. My wife gets home, she's like, Did you drink water and eat today? And I'm like, no. But I got a sneak by pump.

SPEAKER_03: 0:19

I went and worked out. Dude, that's the way I always am too. Like I get into the grind at work, and it's like, I'll come home and be like it's eight o'clock at night and be like, shit, I haven't eaten anything all day. No wonder I feel like hell, right? And then you're then you go slamming a bunch of food before bed, and then you're like, oh, well, I don't know why I'm having nightmares and can't fucking sleep. You tell me. Dr. Taylor Bosley, I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_00: 0:46

I'm sorry.

unknown: 0:48

Right.

SPEAKER_00: 0:50

Your shameless plug to an amazing sponsor. If you're looking to optimize your hormones, check out the episode description. Hit up Dr. Taylor Bosley. He is an amazing resource. And uh right now, if you use my discount code, you'll get uh some uh some money off of your initial consultation. But uh I I am not listening to my doctor because I too am not getting good sleep and I'm not eating regularly. Yeah. Mike, welcome to Security Hub Podcast, brother.

SPEAKER_03: 1:18

How are you? Appreciate it, dude. Uh doing really well, doing good. You know grinding. Yeah. Grinding and uh, you know, grinding, grinding some more. So man.

SPEAKER_00: 1:30

And you know, I I don't feel too bad because you're you're a learned doctor. You've you've got knowledge. You're supposed to be the best of us.

SPEAKER_03: 1:40

Dude, I always appreciate that. People are always like, you're a doctor. You're like, nah, bro, you're just still human and still do the same dumb shit as other people. Trust me.

SPEAKER_00: 1:52

Oh man. Yeah. Yeah. Dude, I'm excited to have you on. Let's um let's dive into your story, dude. Like, how do you how do you go from being a mild-mannered individual to you know creating something like prep in the wild and going out into being able to live authentically and enjoy the outdoors and give people ownership and resources that uh empower them. Like if you get in trouble, that's one thing that I loved about the military. Um, yeah, there's a real thing like QRF, but yeah, self-recovery, man, number one thing. Empowering individuals to take care of themselves in the worst situations. And hey, like you can come out of it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 2:31

No, I mean that that's that's very true. And you know, I'd say, you know, how and and why. Um I you know, 20 years. I graduated med school in 2005, and my pathway to med school wasn't the traditional. Um, you know, always wanted to be a doctor, you know, always wanted to do that thing. And it just I I more or less fell into it. And I fell into it because of traumatic brain injury and I had a brain bleed. My second year of yeah, my second year of playing college football. And so I went to school just to play ball. My dad forbid the military um because that was my path. And I was talking to recruiters and doing that whole thing, and he was a Vietnam vet, and you know, he sat me down, was like, dude, you know, bad decision. You know, he lived through that era where there was no patriotism. They came home and they were treated poorly. He couldn't find work because he was a veteran. Um, no one would hire him. So it was a struggle. So he laid that out and he's like, you know, you dude, you're blessed to play ball and it's a game, and they're gonna, you know, cover your college for you. Why would you not do that? So, you know, that's the path I went. Only my second year to end up with a brain bleed. And once that happens, you're not cleared for anything. You know, I was gonna my plan was to go play ball, and when I was done playing ball, was then gonna be just then I'd go in the military. And you know, and and once you have a TBI like that, it's you no one wants you for anything. So stay it's like the world don't want you no more. Dude, so yeah, uh spent a spent a week in the hospital with that, and then a lot of appointments and you know, kind of they didn't do much rehab back then. Um, all of that was poorly understood. Um, but just being around medicine and having the appointments and stuff, I became fascinated with it and really saw it as an avenue to help other people. And that's always been at my core, is just helping people, right? It's you know, that's that's just how I've been my whole life. Um, and that's that's how I landed in it, really. And then so I'm not it's funny because when I hang out with, you know, my some my friends, I don't have any friends that are doctors. Um I don't. Um we don't we don't mesh well. Yeah. Um and when I hang out with when I'm with friends or I meet people, the last thing they they suspect that I am is a doctor. Uh there, you know, they look at me and they think, like Josh Smith at you know, Montana Knife, right? When when he and I met and you know, he said this, uh, I think it was on his podcast. He's told me this several times. He's like, dude, if I had to look at you, I'd think you're like uh in gas and oil or you know, you're doing contracting work or some shit like that. Or retired Green Beret.

unknown: 5:18

Right.

SPEAKER_00: 5:19

No, I'm not that hard, bro. Yeah, full no full full disclosure, when you when you just look at the people that you're involved with, I mean, you got some Marines, you got people from all walks of life, you at the surface level, and when you look at what you're doing, oh dude, he's part of us, affiliated somehow. Um, and and very much if if anybody if you watch any of the podcasts you've been on, you're not the polished version that you of a doctor you find on LinkedIn. You're somebody that likes to live. You're somebody that's out there. Not saying that those doctors don't do that, but very the the the authentic self comes through in everything that you do, and it's somebody where like the highest compliment, I could go have a beer with this guy, or I could get go get a coffee, I could sit out in the deer stand with this guy, I could be on a blind with this guy.

SPEAKER_03: 6:11

I yeah, you know, the the thing I love the most, man, it's like judge this cover. I love that. Judge the cover. Don't even get into like don't even get into the pages of me, man. Just just judge me, judge me right away. And um, no, so I I take that, I I take that as a compliment, where a lot of my colleagues would be offended by that, be like, oh, you're not polished and you're not this, you're not that. It's just it's just a different mindset. And and I guess the majority of of those that go into medicine, they had that passion, they had that drive, and that's just what they were. You know, they were bookworms, they, you know, just focused purely on their studies, and that's you know, that's how they obtained it. Me, it's you know, this it the stuff honestly just came easy for me. Um, you know, when I was a little kid, I was always fascinated with, you know, dissecting all the animals that we kissed. So we we would, my dad would get so frustrated, man, because we do we did all of our own butchering, all of our own processing, and I'm over there taking a knee joint apart on a deer, you know, looking at the looking for the ACL and the PCL and all this stuff, and he would just be like, What are you wasting time? What are you doing with this? You know, I'm checking out the lung and all the chambers of the heart, dissecting the heart out. And I I was always into that stuff. So um, I guess I I'm a firm believer everything happens for a reason in life. And you don't know why in the moment. And, you know, my second year of college, I didn't know why that was happening to me. Um, you know, I know how it happened. I played like a fool. And just I just wanted to just hit as hard as I could. And when you go to the college level, and all of a sudden, you know, you're playing against three 320-pound pulling guards, you're and you're only playing at 210 as as a weak side linebacker, something's gonna give. Um, and I played, yeah, and I just played foolish, and I thought I could just blow everything up, and that was my mindset. And I loved, I thrived um on that feeling of a big hit getting up and the world is spinning on you, man. There was just no, it was like a drug, right? It was and it was just it was a bad drug where it's you do you you hit somebody so hard that they're laying on the turf and the world's spinning on you. I did my job, right? I did my job and I I won that battle, right? So um it just got it got the best of me then. I mean, I I played foolish. So yeah, more or less, like I said, I fell into that. And at the core, I'm I've always been the same person from when I was young, man. Loved the outdoors, you know, started in the outdoors uh when I was five. You know, that's how we put food on the table as a family. You know, I had two brothers. Um, like I said, my dad was uh a Vietnam vet. He came out, couldn't find work. My mom worked as a secretary. They did everything they could for us and provided, you know, the essentials of a home and loving family and those things. Materialistic things did not exist in our life. So when we went, when we went out in the woods, man, it was you know, freezer packing time. You know, we're putting everything we can in the freezer to make the year so we could, you know, have good meals and stuff. And, you know, I've just I've never left that. You know, I still do it. Um, I have my kids doing it still. Um, they don't understand it because they see like we don't have to hunt to put food on the table. But I'm like, yeah, we're we're not gonna lose that tradition, we're not gonna lose that way of life, and you're always going to be able to sustain yourself. You're never gonna have to depend on others.

SPEAKER_00: 9:41

Absolutely, man. That that is such an important thing that's being lost by the vast majority. It's only like in and it's it's it's like a virus, right? I grew up for for a good portion of my life, um northern Colorado, the front range, and I remember the the front range outside of Fort Collins, Windsor, Alt, Severance, all these smaller towns where people still hunted, where you could still, as a young kid, rent to blind and go goose hunting, waterfowl hunting. And like a virus, that industrial and and development creeps and creeps and creeps further and further and further. You don't recognize these towns anymore. People don't hunt anymore. People aren't vocal about getting out there because along with that virus comes the mentality of, well, you don't need to hunt. It's not a good sport. It's cruel. It's yeah. When you source and get your own meat and you're out there, you're a good steward of the environment. You're a crucial element, a crucial chain in the food pyramid. People don't remember chronic wasting. I remember it. I remember in North Colorado. And what stops it? When you have individuals that are passionate about being sportsmen, are passionate about gathering and hunting. And when you vilify it, when you remove it, and you don't talk about the goodness that comes from it and the vital part that it actually, I mean, it's in so many different ways. The the tradition, the father-son tradition, the the ability to go out there and experience something that's deeply rooted in our American culture. Everybody talks about Americans don't have culture. Yeah, we fucking do. Yeah, we do. But it's it's deeply rooted in going out and doing hard things. And and let me ask you this, and I think you you can probably have a testimony of this. Like, you're probably remember the first time all of your kids were able to bring down their buck, their first buck with their first kill. Like, how American is that? How much joy and pride do you have in that? How many families don't have that? How many families don't have that?

SPEAKER_03: 11:46

They don't, man. It's it's a primal instinct. You know, it's it's at the core of us as you know, alpha type predators. Like, that's that's what you do. Um, and and try to get people that are against it to understand that they can't. Now, I've taken people that have been against it, and I'm very much a middle ground type person. I'm like, okay, you don't understand what I do, let me show you what I do. I'm not gonna sit here and argue with you, right? Because we're not gonna get anywhere that come experience it. And I've had some people come experience it and they're like, I get it. Like, this is awesome. And then they're able to take that meat home and provide to their family. And as a man, I mean, at our foundation, what are we providers and protectors? Like I tell my son that I've got two daughters. My son, you know, he has a twin sister, and I just went through the speech with him last night. Our sole responsibility here is to protect the girls, right? We provide and we protect. Um, and that's what I expect you to be as you grow into a man, right? You're gonna be here to protect your sister, you're gonna protect her in school, you're gonna protect her at home, and you're always gonna protect your mother, right? So, and being able to go out and do that, dude. He shot his he shot his first buck last year. He's 12, right? So he just turned 12. So at 11, he shot his first buck. It's actually hanging on the wall back there. Um right there, that one. Um yeah, and it's just a it's a it's an amazing experience as a father to see him accomplish that and to be behind the, you know, he's behind the gun on his own and nervous. And, you know, to to put the put the deer down, the excitement. It was just, dude, it was just such a rush, you know, and I never I never understood, like I've been hunting for so long, it's like you don't feel that rush anymore. You don't feel that you become, I don't want to say numb to it. It's not a disrespectful thing to the animal because we still, you know, prey over the animal and stuff, but it's just like it's like work. Get it done. Okay, I got meat in the freezer. With him, it was just like I felt that rush again and that excitement that I haven't felt since I was a kid. And dude, that's awesome. That's awesome. And he looks at me after he sh he put it down one shot and he looks at me, he goes, Dad, can I say the S word? I'm like, let it rip, bud. He goes, Holy shit, that was a big buck. So those those experiences stay with you for life, and you don't forget you don't forget those things. And like you said, that bonding moment, you know, just that interaction, that time you spend sitting in a tree stand, sitting under a tree, you know, snow's fallen, you're tucked up under a hemlock, and just having those discussions with your kids about life, about future plans, you know, what are their hopes? What are their dreams? What's weighing heavy on their mind? That I think we a lot of parents have lost that. You know, they're they're rushed home from work every day, people are sitting in separate rooms eating their dinner, and nobody has conversation or discussion. And that's where society goes wrong. That's where it goes sideways.

SPEAKER_00: 14:57

Yeah. You can't have the same sort of interaction uh on roadblocks or Minecraft. Like I'm sorry, you're you're not gonna get the same interaction with your young man, your your son, as he's getting older and maturing, you know, watching a TV show. This episode is brought to you by Pure Liberty Labs. Quality supplements designed to elevate your health and performance. Check out their full line of quality supplements, whether you're looking for whey protein, pre-workout, creatine, or a super greens drink. Pure Liberty Labs has you covered. Use my code security hall 10 at checkout today. Like these are these are moments that you can only experience when you do hard things, when you're learning how to be a good steward of the environment, when you're taking participating in something that is bigger than you. I mean, yeah, you you could do it weightlifting, you could do it through sports a little bit, but when you're outdoor, and that's the reason why outdoor recreational therapy works for veterans, it's it's healing. It's it's letting you tap into something bigger than yourself, and when you're guiding your kids through it. That's a thing that, you know, I'm an I'm a new parent. I've my mine's about to be a year old here in a couple months. And uh I've always had this visualization of ensuring that, like, hey, I have to make it a priority to get her outdoors to experience these things. How much longer? How much longer? We don't have people, we we don't we have very few people that are out there fighting for outdoorsmanship, for sportsmanship, for hunting, for fishing. Like it's I I think of and I I try to remember to be hopeful, but you know, I think of a future where it's gonna be more limited, where the land is gonna be more managed by by big brother, and we're not gonna have as much access. Um so yeah, it it's very important. Well, we have it. Well, it's out there, guys. You gotta get out there and take advantage.

SPEAKER_03: 16:55

Yes. Take advantage. And you don't and you don't, and the thing is, you don't have to go out and kill things, you know? Yeah. Go out, go out and hike, you know, go, go find something cool, go find a waterfall, you know. Go go find a challenging trail and challenge not just yourself, but your kids with you, you know, to get to the the top of that trail. Um there's a there's a lot, there's a lot to learn through suffering together. You know this better than I. I mean, you you you've been through that. Um, you know, but suffering together and suffering as a family in a healthy way like that just bonds you and brings you so much closer together. And doing it in nature, like you said, there's no better therapy than that. And my my best days right now after doing emergency medicine for 20 years is in the outdoors. You know, I feel more connected, you know, I feel more, I feel disconnected from you know the chaos, you know, disconnected from the horrible, you know, the bad things that I've experienced and that I've seen that I've done. And it just recenters me, it grounds me back to what life is is truly about. And life is not about the grind, and life is not about you know, showing up to work, punching the punching the clock, collecting your paycheck, paying your bills. Um, this is free stuff, man.

SPEAKER_00: 18:15

Like you don't like especially as a veteran, man. You like gold sportsmanship uh licenses, like you, you like the state of Florida, for example, you you can get your sportsman gold um card at Walmart for free. Like you can go fishing, go small game hunting for free. Uh, and there's tons of tons of people out there. Dude, you can jump online right now and find 15 different clubs within your area that will help you learn how to do this. If you've never hunted or fished before, that's a thing. Like, you kind of touched on it. I wanted to dive into it a little bit. Like, going into medicine is probably one of the hardest things I could imagine doing. Extremely stressful. Like, did you find yourself if you were going through your education, like having to lean on figuring out how you could get out to the outdoors as sort of like a stress management tool?

SPEAKER_01: 19:07

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 19:08

Actually, you know, that was my stress management tool. You know, I would, you know, in in med school, you know, I went to I went to med school in Erie, Pennsylvania. So you're right on the lake, you know, you have steelhead running in the fall and and spring. You've got awesome fishing up there, and you would find me oftentimes out at the butt crack of dawn, you know, working, working the streams trying to catch steelhead while they're running. And it's actually how my wife and I met. So she's she's late for class, coming back from a fishing trip with her family in Canada, and I'm late for class just because I'm always late for class, and I'm and I'm fishing, and uh I, you know, I recognize at a young age, it's like I I have ADD, and I can't sit there for eight hours straight a day and just be talked at, right? So, you know, I'm on the street. And I come in late, she comes in late, the whole auditorium of like 200-some people. It's it's alphabetical order, and our names are nowhere close to one another. And when you come in late, you have to sit at the back. So I sit down, she sits down next to me, it's just small talk, and she's like, you know, why are you late today? I said, Well, I was fishing. She's like, Oh, I love fishing. I'm like, Really? Okay. Hot blonde that loves fishing. Okay, let's uh let's dive into this a little more, right? And she's like, Will you take me? I'm like, Absolutely. We can go out tomorrow morning if you want. So the funny story is she thought I had a boat. So I go pick her up and she has nothing. She doesn't have a fishing pole, she doesn't have waiters, she has nothing. And I'm like, Where's all your gear? She's like, What are you talking about? Where's your boat? And I'm like, I don't have a boat. So I have to run to Cabela's quick in the morning, get her outfitted for the for fishing, you know, is with no money. Everything's on credit card. I have no job. I have no source of income. So I'm just paying for this chick, right? And uh then she proceeds to wade out into the lake and fill her waders with water, and she goes under and is drowning. So hand of God, like that's the that's the absolute truth. So I have to run, like, I'm in the stream, she's on the beach, and I run down the beach, strip my stuff off quick, go in, cut her out of her waiters, and pull her ass out of a wild lake. Yeah. So that's how we met. That was I wouldn't even say we we always say like that that wasn't even a date. That was just like, hey, two people that's in my life.

unknown: 21:43

Right.

SPEAKER_03: 21:45

But I guess I owe you. No, but like that that was um getting outdoors, the time that I, you know, the free time that we did have, getting back home, getting in the woods, you know, hunting, trapping, whatever it was, helps you get through those challenging times, right? Because, you know, med school's med school's not a joke. It's um it's it's pretty intense, and they make it that way, you know, similar to the way, you know, special forces and military. And I'm not comparing, I'm not special forces military. There's there's no comparison there, but you know, similar to the institutional test, yeah. It's just it's right, it's hard. And they just overwhelm you with a ton of information that you have to process and you know, test on it constantly. And you're and you're it's every day is a test. And every day you're being tested, and every day it's a weed out process to see who can hack this. Because in the end, the reality is you are dealing with people's lives. And you don't need a weak-minded, you know, person that to do that. Like you, you, you, you have to be confident. Um, and I think that's where, you know, arrogance and confidence, there's a fine line there. And that's where a lot of people think doctors are arrogant and stuck up. Um, but there's a degree of confidence that you have to have. Um, and a lot of us come across as that arrogance. And it's and it's misinterpreted into more of a confidence because you all through the stages of doing this, every stage you take, if you don't have confidence, you're not making it. You know, you're just you're just not gonna make it through. You have to believe in yourself and you have to believe in the end, the end product.

SPEAKER_00: 23:27

Dude, absolutely. Anytime you're taking on something that big um and with a high washout rate, high attrition rate, you have to have that confidence. It's got to be instilled in you. And there is a lot of parallels, man. Um, the 18 Delta pipeline. Like a soft medic, like that is they that's a title. You you're in doc. And in some countries, you are you are a doctor. Yeah. And their course is brutal. So like it's and it's absolutely necessary to build that structure of confidence and resilience, like understanding that you have to study and you have to, you can prep all day, but if you haven't built that mindset of being confident in yourself when you're walking in day after day, day after day in that process, that shit eats at you. And that's not that's not one year, two years, it's years.

SPEAKER_03: 24:19

Yeah, dude, yeah. It's um I did yeah, it was 12 years total until I could say that I'm you know, I'm a I'm a doctor. So, you know, you have four years undergrad, four years med school, four years of residency until you're a grown-up doctor, right? The the real deal in which you can take care of people, you know, on your own. So, you know, and all through the course of that, you're being tested constantly. You know, you have you know, steps of your boards, you know, through med school, then you have your boards in residency, and then even when you're an attending, you continue to to research, you know, and still have to have a board recertification. So it doesn't stop. And medicine is constantly evolving. And you know, what we did a year ago through evidence and research, we don't do anymore. And you have to you have to stay up on that stuff, you know, to give your patients uh the best, you know, the best possible outcome. You know, without that, you become stagnant, then you're unfortunately putting your patient at risk.

SPEAKER_00: 25:22

Yeah. That's something that a lot of people don't focus on and realize that the the good doctors, the doctors are out there, are constantly evolving, constantly learning, now more than ever in this rapid age of you know the internet. Like back in the day, you could get away being Yeah. You could have a good enough doctor.

SPEAKER_03: 25:46

Yeah. You could have your fancy degree in this uh really expensive you know frame hanging on the wall and people would respect you, and uh that doesn't fly anymore. No you know, it's you you're your uh every patient tests you now. Um they they want answers, and rightfully so, they should. You know, it's you know, we we try to know as much as we can. And they're good, there are really good doctors that are also really bad doctors, and bad doctors that just become stagnant and feel that they can rely on the education they obtained 20 years ago. Um, and they're the bad doctors, they're the ones that should just get out. If you don't want to continue to challenge yourself, to push yourself to grow, then just quit, man. Like get out of it. Yeah, do do something else. Um, those that want to continue to grow and expand their knowledge, you know, they're they're the good doctors. They're the they're the better doctors that you want to seek out and you know, try to find those people to care for you and your family. Um, because that's the that's the that's gonna be the best outcome for you. And that's hard, right? So that's that's really hard. It's not like we walk around with signs on our on us saying, hey, I haven't studied shit for 20 years. Right. Well you gotta do this if you work for the VA. Dude, the V the VA, the VA's a trip, man. I mean, so I tried like I tried several times to get with the VA um just just to pay back and you know to the veteran community because I see my wife's a doc too, right? So I told you we went in med school. So she she's a gastrologist, you know, I'm an ER doc. And you know, both of us have gone down that avenue of how can we how can we benefit the veteran community because, you know, because of the respect there, how can we use the skills, the education that we've obtained to help them? You know, in both of our settings, we see the product of VA care. And when people come to us and it's like, what is happening? You know, this is so messed up. There's so many things that are missed, there's so many things that have not been done right. How can we help fix that? And the problem with the VA is the VA doesn't pay, right? And in a perfect world, in a perfect world where money wasn't an issue for us, you know, that would be a no-brainer. But when you have to pay for your own education and you come out of med school and each of you are four to five hundred thousand dollars in debt, I mean, you come out of med school just with your school loans, a million dollars between both of us. Right? Dude, you got like it's a lot of money to pay back, and you still want to buy a home and you want to take a vacation and you're raising kids and all of that. So as much as we don't want money to be an issue in our decisions of where we work and how we work, and it has to be, unfortunately. You know, we all want to get to that end of being able to say we're retired and we're done with this, and you have to focus on the paycheck to do that.

SPEAKER_00: 28:58

Absolutely, man. Absolutely. Like that's the truth. And um I do I do think that there are some good doctors within the system. I don't want to paint with a broad brush. I've met some great ones. Um, but yeah, it is filled with a lot of individuals that uh don't like uh I will say this they the bad ones are out there. No, they're out there.

SPEAKER_03: 29:21

But uh but the re the so the reason that I feel the reason that the VA, the VA is fixable, right? You you can easily fix the VA if you would take the funds and commit to the VA. And unfortunately, they're not. So salaries for the VA are so low that the only doctors you're going to attract to work there are the foreign medical grads. Those that are coming over on a visa, trying to get plugged into the system to stay in the United States, and they're they jump ship as soon as they get cleared for that, and they go get the bigger paycheck, right? So it's like the majority, I'm not saying all. Again, I don't want to, you know, paint with a broad brush either, but this episode is also brought to you by Precision Wellness Group.

SPEAKER_00: 30:04

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SPEAKER_03: 30:16

A lot of them are they're just trying to get plugged into our the the American healthcare system. So they're willing to, and they're coming from other countries where, okay, making 150 grand or 200 grand as a doctor is way better than the 40 or 50 that you made, you know, back home. So yeah. Yeah, they see that way better. But you know, those of us that have, you know, come through the US healthcare system know that that's extremely low rate. And, you know, uh you have to you have to stand firm with what you how you value yourself. You know, I don't, you know, and it's value comes in terms of paycheck as well. And it's like I value myself higher than that. I I want to be paid more than that, right?

SPEAKER_00: 31:02

Absolutely. So you got to, especially these days to be able to do everything that, you know, raise a family, have a future. You you have to be able to make yourself start a business. Yeah. Start a business. Yeah. Yeah. We'll get on that real quick. But uh, you know, with before I understood, everybody you has this idea that a doctor's a doctor, you know, oh, you know, you just go to, but there's specialties. You specialize in things. How did you go about choosing your specialty? Like, was it always just about being at the the you know, the craziest setting? Did you want hands-on to get you back to the adrenaline spirit?

SPEAKER_03: 31:37

No, dude. And uh honestly looking back, I wish I wouldn't have um because the thing they don't tell you when you start emergency medicine, they don't tell you about the trauma that you're gonna endure, the nightmares you're gonna have, and the sleep that you can't, that you won't get 20 years afterwards, right? And you know, I've I've talked to people outside of medicine about that. You know, I I originally started, I was, I wanted to be a surgeon, right? And, you know, I did one year of that. And when I met with the chairman of surgery, you know, there's two, there's two kinds of diet. There's a DO and there's an M D, right? And 20 years ago, I'm a DO, my wife's a DO. Um, the difference in schooling is there's one component of DO school that MD schools don't have. MDs are way more involved in research. You know, it's a it's more heavily research. DOs are we've we've always felt are the more grounded type, the personable type, um, you know, treating the person, not a disease. MDs just tend to have a I'm treating a disease here, and you know may not so much look at like we're it's a it's a person, right? So goes, you know, Robin Williams movie, Patch Adams. I don't know if you've ever heard it or seen it, but you know, there's a there's a scene in that movie where he's standing in front of the medical board, and you know, he says, you know, you treat a disease, you win, you lose. You treat a person, you win every time, I guarantee you. And I've always looked at that as the main differentiator between DO and MD. So when I did my, when I was in my first year of surgery, I met with the chairman and I I chose a very a super specialized tract to do. And he told me point blank, he goes, You're a DO, no one's gonna take you. Like it, those positions are only gonna go to MDs. You know, that's improved over the last 20 years where you don't have that, you know, that big, you know, divide. Um, but it's still very much out there, right? So if you want to become this hyper-specialized neurosurgeon that's you know only operating on little babies in the womb, like it's a struggle as a DO to get in there because it's just they, you know, the the society of medicine that we work in and that we live in just doesn't have that higher level of respect, right? Um, so it's you know, being a DO, and I got accepted to MD schools too, and I chose to be you know to go in an osteopathic school because it was eerie PA and I could fish and be in the outdoors versus living in Philadelphia.

SPEAKER_02: 34:23

I mean, that's what it came down to, to be honest with you.

SPEAKER_03: 34:27

So when when I was choosing the schools, man, when I was choosing the schools, it was like concrete jungle or the woods. I choose the woods and I choose to be able to fish, and because I knew that that would be important for my sanity and you know, during the stressful times. So um, and how I got into emergency medicine was um I had that conversation with my chairman. We were doing a late surgery one night on a patient, and um, we're scrubbing in up in the OR. And my attending, who, you know, short of idolization, because I don't really idolize anybody, but you know, I really looked up for to this dude. He was he was an amazing surgeon, amazing person, and he looked at me and he goes, Why are you doing this? Right. And again, everything's a test. They constantly test you. And, you know, I go into the whole like, oh, to help people, you know, that cliche stuff, right? And then he looks at me and I'll never forget. He looks at me, he goes, No, why the fuck are you doing this? He goes, get out. He's like, you know, I don't know my kids. I'm on my second divorce. It never, I don't leave the hospital. I'm here all the time. You know, get out of this now while you can. And I went down to the emergency department that night to do another con a surgical consult on somebody else late night. And the chairman of emergency medicine just recognized I was awful, right? And I just wasn't my personable self. And he's like, What's up with you tonight? I'm like, dude, I just got crushed, devastated by Dave. Dave just devastated me, man. Uh, he told me to get out while I can. And the chairman of the chairman of emergency medicine says, he's right, and let me do you a favor. He goes, Well, and it's a rank process. So how you get into your residency, you rank hospitals, and hospitals rank you. And they put you put that in the computer program and it just spits out where you're gonna go. Like you don't have a choice in. So he's like, We'll rank you number one this year, guaranteed spot to come, you know, to stay here and do emergency medicine. And that's how I got into it. So in the beginning, it was awesome. Like high intensity, like level one trauma center. You know, you're flying, you're, you know, going to, you know, you're you're you're landing on these, you know, accident scenes, you're doing a ton of scene calls, that type of stuff. And then I don't know what it is. I don't, I don't know if it's just repeated, you know, seeing the same stuff over and over and some of the worst things that humanity has to offer, I guess. Um, having kids definitely changed me. Um anytime I had to deal with a, you know, a pediatric trauma or, you know, pediatric overdoses or, you know, pediatric cases that, you know, the father lost it and decided to hurt their kids or burn them or whatever, I couldn't I couldn't connect that anymore. Um, because I now had kids to make that connection with, right? Um, and that's I'd say that's when things I was like, what did I do? You know, why did why did I do this? So um because there's no like it's not like you put in 20 and you're out and you, you know, it's yeah, you have a retirement plan, or your retirement plan is the stock market, really, or if you're smart enough to go invest in real estate and those types of things, but it's not like you do 20 and you're out on retirement. It's like you you keep doing it, throw yourself into the fire until you know you have your nest egg built up and you can walk away.

SPEAKER_00: 37:57

A lot of people understand what our our medical professionals go through, and we don't include them in the that first responder world. We we don't include them in that warrior tribe and say, because you know it's easy to look at a police officer, emt, a firefighter, and be like, yeah, you're a part of the warrior tribe. But that doctor that's going in, you know, late nights, seeing that stuff that can stick with you for the rest of your life over and over again. It's like I go deploy, come back home, chances are I won't see anything horrible when I'm backside. Medical professionals, day in, day out, they're there. They're seeing the worst of it, just like you shared.

SPEAKER_03: 38:34

Like Yeah, I think and that's I I'll I'll uh you know, I'll touch on that a little bit, and I think that's that's a tough part for us is to admit to that, right? Because the comparison is you're you're trying to compare yourself to you know combat veterans and that type of thing, and it's you know you're not in the same realm. No. You know, it doesn't mean that you're less traumatized, but I think we we hide it because we don't want to, I'd say, offend you know, that group of people and say, hey, yeah, but hey, I have you know, I have trauma too. And like, oh yeah, how many times did you get shot at, doctor, while you're working in your air-conditioned building, right? Um so I think that's that's why a lot a lot of us don't ever talk about it. And I didn't talk about it for years. The first time I talked about it was about two, was two years ago. Um and I've just internalized it all. And the person that brought it up to me was actually Tear. You know, and you had him on recently. And yeah, we we were at it, we were at an event, and it's the first time we met, and we're at Winter Strong at Bert Soren's place, and um Tear looked at me and it's like I'll never forget. He looked at me and and he asked, like, what do you do for a living? And I told him, and he knew right away. Like he he said, I I can see it in your eyes. Dude, you've seen a lot of shit. Right? He just he just recognized that. And I never recognized it in myself, right? It's you know, you look in the mirror and over time you don't know who's looking back. Yep. Right? You you kind of you kind of lose who that person is a little bit, and you know, it's just you just keep burying it. You know, it's just internalize it and bury it. And, you know, then it's kind of like floodgates open, and how do you deal with it? What do you do about it?

SPEAKER_00: 40:33

Yeah. And I I will tell you right now, I got a family member, uh, my cousin, I will uh I I I will tell you she was struggling. She's a emergency nurse, emergency room nurse, and had to see a lot of stuff. COVID hit, had to do a lot of horrible stuff, had to, you know, and the same thing, she's a mom, so she just pushes it down, pushes it down. There's nobody in her immediate circle that she can divulge or talk to or express this like we can as as uh combat guys. And the resource that I had to to plug her into was a resource for combat veterans. And that was the first time she was able to get some sort of relief or and find somebody that understood what she was going through. And that's when it dawned on me. The same thing that Tears saw in your eyes, I saw in her when we were talking. When we sat down face to face, I was like, holy shit, like you're dealing with the same shit some of my brothers are dealing with, but it's it's hard to admit because you're right, you're not in a combat zone in the in the traditional sense, you're not dealing with enemies shooting at you, but you're seeing some stuff that is forever etched in your soul, in your mind, and there's nobody to go to and say, holy shit, I'm dealing with this, because you know, you feel like you can't, you feel like it it's relegated, but there's there's people out there that have the resources that have the ability to talk and connect with. They're just relegated to this side of the discussion with veterans only. If it wasn't for that resource, if it wasn't for that that doctor I was able to get her connected to, I don't know who she'd be able to talk to. But it it's we need to have that discussion. We need to realize that there's a train, there's a certain level of training that some of these providers that have been working with veterans now have that can be beneficial if we allow them to see other populations that have this uh same same uh same issues. Um because you're right, man, you can see it. It's almost like um the shining, uh where you can see it. Like you can you can walk around, you can see it, man. It it's true.

SPEAKER_03: 42:46

You can you can yeah, you can pick people out. You know, I can pick people out, you know, just like Tear picked me out right away. It's like when you've been through, you know, some hard stuff and it's it's been years upon years, um, you kind of recognize that in others as well. So I've become, you know, I become an advocate for it. You know, the younger, the younger generation, the younger docs, I talk to them about that frequently to be that, you know, that that ear for them to to vent and you know, come into my office and cry and whatever you need to do, man. But you got to let it out. Like I took a path of, you know, I took a path of internalizing it. And the challenge for us, and the main difference for us on our end is if you seek care, you you risk losing your license. Yeah. You know, so there's two, there's there's multiple questions that we're asked when we, you know, re-up our license. Um, you know, every two years you have to reapply for your license. And, you know, two of the first questions are are you on antidepressants? Are you seeking therapy? Right. And there's been many, there's been many counts and you know, stories of docs that have answered those questions honestly, and then they're flagged, and you know, they are nothing but a liability. And there's been many, you know, there's there's there's been many of these stories of that happens to them. And now, you know, there's no avenue for them. You know, so they lose their license, they can't do what they what they have been doing or what their passion is. For a lot of us, it's our it's a passion. To keep doing this, it has to be a passion. And now they're left with nothing. And what do they do? They commit suicide. So, you know, emergency medicine is one of the highest suicide rates out there. Um, I think anesthesia is a little higher, but you know, emergency medicine, it's I think we may be number one now after COVID. Um, but you know, we're we're one or two, and it's because of that in we're told there's resources, and you know, we can talk to people and do this and that. Um, we're also not dishonest. So if you seek that therapy, if you seek that care, you know, the medication, yeah, you're you know, you're not gonna lie on your application. So I think a lot of people just don't they don't seek it because they don't want to lie.

SPEAKER_00: 45:12

Yeah. That's unfortunate, man. That that's that breaks my heart. There's a lot of people suffering and need help. And it's like, fuck, dude, what are we doing? We're losing, we're losing great great providers simply because they have to prioritize our health at some point and their family. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 45:30

Well, and that's so that's you know, you you you know, you hit a big topic right there. You know, this is a, you know, this is a in my mind, this is a significant public health concern because of the number of people that are getting out, right? They can't, you know, in in the the healthcare industrial complex that we have here, it is like continue to push, do more with less. Um, we're not filling, you know, we're not backfilling that position that just retired or that person that left or resigned. You know, you just need to pick up, you know, pick up more. Um, and then it's like, okay, well, where does where does that end? And, you know, every hospital is like, oh, we're broke and we're losing money and we're doing this, we're doing, you know. And then it's like, we can we can't hire more docs, we can't pay you anymore, and we can't bring more people on. And most of us would be like, dude, pay me less to hire more. Yeah. You know, just so just so we have a more balanced, you know, balanced workload here, right? Um, but it's it is what it is, um, I guess. And I I don't know. I don't have the answer to it, to be honest with you. I think I think the ultimate answer is encourage people to seek help and don't strip them of their license and stuff if they're honest about it. Like, I mean, it you know how bad that hurts people to say you're not worth anything anymore because you're traumatized. You know, that's just that's additional trauma. Yeah. You know, you know, for somebody to go seek help and then be like, well, you're a liability.

SPEAKER_02: 47:04

You know, talk about really throwing fuel to the fire. So yeah, it's it's a it's a mess, dude. It's it's a bit of a mess, but it's true.

SPEAKER_00: 47:16

We do our best. We get our I will say, hey, seek out psychedelic therapy. Um, confidential, can't test for it. Take care of yourself.

SPEAKER_03: 47:24

Dude, so no, so I I don't know. Did you post about this yesterday, the Netflix uh thing with Maddie Roberts and DJ Shipley on it?

SPEAKER_00: 47:33

Uh not yesterday. A while back I shared, I shared um uh the the way war ways and war. Yeah, I shared a post on it. Ways of war, you're right.

SPEAKER_03: 47:41

So I watched that last night. And um, yeah, that's that's intense, right? And my wife was watching it with me, and I forget which, I think it was it was DJ's um medical intake that you know they were showing and going through it, and we're sitting there looking at it, and it's like, yep, yep, yep, right, have that, have that, experiencing this, experiencing that. And um, you know, it's you know, IBogaine therapy, you know, I've I've done a lot of research on that. Um, somebody introduced me to that about five years ago. I've not done it. I've not done IBogain, but just asked me my opinion on it. So I, you know, like anything, it's like I I dive headfirst into it and want to know as much as I can about it. Um, and I'm still, you know, still learning about it, still researching it. But um that's one thing. It's like, why are we not doing more with that? Right. And I know, and I know the answer, and I think everybody knows the answer as to why. Um bank pharma. That's right. So bank fucking pharma. That's right, man. And they would rather put you on an SSRI, a barbituate, or something like that, where you know, they're not transparent with that, that there's been, you know, blinded placebo-controlled studies on antidepressants, and the people that were on placebo had a better outcome than those that were on the medications. But we continue to push that because it's a multi-billion dollar industry a year.

SPEAKER_00: 49:16

Right. Absolutely. Which truth, man. If I'm why would they go out?

SPEAKER_03: 49:21

Why would they go out and dig up some shrubs that can actually have positive impact? Well, because that's not a multi-billion dollar industry. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 49:31

Yeah. So we can't we can we can't hook you on it. That's the thing that I will tell you, man. Five MEO DMT gave me more clarity and more peace of mind and answered more questions. Did you you did it?

SPEAKER_03: 49:43

You did the whole thing?

SPEAKER_00: 49:45

Yeah. I did that for five hours right here in my house. I had a shaman at the house, um, former soft guy that went off and studied it in South America, lived with the tribe, honored the medicine, brought it back. Now we have an underground railroad of healing going on. Like, what better, what better way to go through this journey and have somebody, somebody from your from your community to guide you, to fight through it. That's right. In my journey, man, I I tell you, I I've done the long work. Talk about like I went headfirst into meditation, headfirst into mindfulness, got my certifications, teached it, coached it, read and studied psychedelics. I didn't rush out to just have a psychedelic journey on my own. I studied it and I waited for the right opportunity. Um and and then when when it was brought to me, I knew I'm like, this is the medication. This episode is brought to you by Titan SARMS. Head on over to TitansArms.com and buy a stack today. Use my code CDny10 to get your first stack. I recommend the Lean Stack 2. Start living your best life. Titan SARMs. No junk, no bullshit, just results. Because there's one thing to read the books in Titan. I told myself for the longest time, I want it to be psilocybin. I want it to be psilocybin. Well, psilocybin wasn't the thing that ultimately came to me in the right and at the right time when I needed it, and I wanted it to be at my home. And it was a guided journey of 5MEO DMT with another soft warrior. Like, and it instantly, instantly connected things within me, within my mindset, within my soul that I didn't have, having gone through years of therapy, talk therapy. I've done every modality that was ever offered to me when I was ready, when I was willing to get help, when I was finally vulnerable enough, I finally said, I'm gonna try everything because I want to get better. I want to get better, I want to overcome this. And I didn't say no to anything. And I got a lot of healing, got a lot of help from a lot of things. But that last little bit, the one thing, the most, and it was by far the most transformative journey I've had. Um, and I will tell you this right now. If you're still on on the you know, on the fence on it, don't know, be willing to study it. Do your own research, be willing to dive into the books. I will give you a whole list of recommendations. Um, start off Michael Paul's book and read. Study it. Be informed. Don't be lazy. Don't don't you know a lot of things that I I thought, oh, it's on the doctor. No. It's your journey, it's your health, it's on you. You have to be the honest broker and read and study things because a doctor's another human being. He only has access to what he's gone through. And if you show up with like that's another thing, operator syndrome that like gave me a huge sense of understanding of what I was going through is when I showed up with that white paper study and the doctor was sitting there, he's like, I haven't heard about this. And he took the time to read it. He took the time, was like, okay, yeah, that's a good so that's a good doctor, man.

SPEAKER_03: 52:47

Yeah because so going back to confidence arrogance, you know, there's a large percentage of doctors that will be handed a paper and that the arrogance switch goes on. Yeah. For real. Yeah. It's like, well, I'm a doctor. You what do you what are you gonna teach me, right? Where it's like, dude, I love re I love when my patients bring papers or they ask about, you know, some of the because look, the reality is in medical school you're not learning that. Yeah. Yeah. Medical school, you don't like we didn't have a single class on nutrition and lifestyle. Yeah. But we had months and months and months of pharmacology. What to prescribe how what to prescribe, how to prescribe, right? It's just prescribe, prescribe, prescribe. And that's you know, that that you get caught, you're you're in that machine, right? And then it's I hear people oftentimes say healthcare is broken in this country. Like healthcare is broken now. And I always say, I don't, it's not broken. It's designed, and it's working as designed. Oh, that's good. Yeah. That's right. Good. It's it's it's working as designed. You know, when you're 20% of the nearly 20% of the GDP in the country, um, that's a lot of trillions of dollars, like$2.6 trillion a year. Think of the corruption that can occur to get hands on any the crumbs of that. Right. And, you know, I I've it's it's designed, and we as physicians need to own more of our practice, and we need to own more of our, you know, interactions with our patients and be their strongest advocates. Because I'm seeing more now that patients are expected to be their strongest advocate. Like we have to be the protectors, we have to be the guardian of their health. And if we're not constantly expanding our knowledge and if we're not going down those pathways of, okay, I want to read that paper, well, then you're you're becoming a detriment to your patient's health care. And, you know, research and medicine is a funny thing. And when you track it back, the majority of it is sponsored by some pharmaceutical company.

SPEAKER_00: 54:56

Absolutely. Absolutely. Uh studies. I didn't realize this uh it took it wasn't until I got in my undergraduate that I realized, like, oh, here's how we do studies. Well, where does the money come from? Well, it's funded by who? By this company that's gonna get you the skew the results. Yeah, what the fuck?

SPEAKER_03: 55:18

Yeah. Dude, that goes all the way back to the Rockefeller days, man. Yeah. You know, when when they decided, when when he decided, when he decided he was going to fund, you know, medical schools and develop the curriculum. You know, he developed the curriculum and it closed a lot of universities at medical schools down, you know. Most like most, I think with the exception of like two HBCUs, were closed because those medical schools were doing more holistic medicine, right? And they were like, hey, this is the way we do it. We're not gonna continue, we're not gonna go your pathway. Okay, then you're closed. Right? Because holistic medicine was you know quackery, and they didn't want that, they didn't want that to infest their their new agenda of you know pharmaceuticals. So that's I mean, that's when you open your eyes and you and you look at it, it's it hurts. Um, you certainly, you know, I look at it all the time. I don't want to be part of something like that. Uh you know, don't get me wrong, there's sound, there's very sound evidence and research out there, right? Like there's there's things that we do that it's like, no, this is this is mainstay of treatment. But when we get into things like, you know, the antidepressant world, um, there are better options and we should be looking to that. And Stanford's doing a good job of, you know, they've opened their eyes and they're doing the and now you're seeing these pop up around major healthcare centers. And I love seeing it. I love seeing that because what I've researched and and what I've read and testimonials and talking to people that have done it, I haven't heard one negative yet.

SPEAKER_02: 56:57

You know, and I think it's a fear of the unknown, you know.

SPEAKER_03: 57:03

Okay, are you gonna go on this trip and then come back and you're more broken, or your brain is just, you know, tattered and you're out on the streets mumbling and walking around and homeless all of a sudden because you did one trip on Ibogaine?

SPEAKER_00: 57:20

Right? Yeah. No, I've seen the exact opposite. I've seen some of the some of my brothers, some of my friends were dealing with some of the darkest things and were broken. Literally broken. Guys that couldn't didn't have access to emotions, guys that didn't have access to tapping in, to like finally grieving the loss of friends, brothers, that weren't able to talk about things, that were very much addicted to alcohol. And after having these experiences and being able to go on these uh trips that are paid for by these amazing organizations, um, we're finally able to heal in a remarkable way. In a remarkable way to come back home and say, I'm not I'm not drinking anymore. I'm not doing this. I have a better way forward, I know what I'm doing. And they're plugged into resources, they're plugged into groups, and they're they're following things that you know family members and close friends have been telling them and yelling and screaming them to do for years and months, and finally, it's it's second nature. They're they're not walking away from their path, they're on their journey, and it's not a magic wand. I'm saying they're doing the work. It makes it it allows them to see the light and allows them to see the benefit of doing the work, of following their journey, and that's the beauty of it. You have a choice. You can go on this wonderful experience, and you can go through it and then come back home and not follow through. But a vast majority of the guys that have that I know from my community that go, they want to do the work. And that's the beauty of it. Like they see it as a blessing, they see it as a uh as having a second chance at life. And that's a reality, man. And and uh I will champion that now more than ever. I understand medication has its place, but I will tell you, I look at myself at the very beginning when I was in crisis, and yes, the medication was needed, but afterwards, when I was empowered, when I had resources, and I knew, I knew I could handle things a lot more. I was willing to let go and say, I can manage this, I can work through this with every other tool and resource because I had agency. I had the ability to advocate for myself and say, you know what? I'm a green beret. This is gonna be uncomfortable, but I'm gonna sit with the uncomfortable feelings and I'm gonna push through this. It's gonna suck, it's not gonna be fun. Sure. But but I'd rather do that than to have that muted gray life. And that's what I was having. But you get that in you get that empowerment back.

SPEAKER_03: 59:56

Like you feel empowered and control and in. control again.

SPEAKER_01: 1:00:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 1:00:01

And I I'd imagine for a lot of you guys, you know, when you when you come out of you know special forces, it's like you lose a lot that sense of purpose. Yeah. Oh yeah. Identity and purpose, man. Right? It's like, who am I now? What is my purpose now? You know, what's that look like? Right? Because you've invested so much of yourself into that, and then it's it's over. Right? You're done. So who am I? What am I supposed to do at this point? Right. And then all the bad shit starts piling up. Right. And then you're looking for any avenue to just numb it.

SPEAKER_02: 1:00:43

Yes.

SPEAKER_03: 1:00:44

You're just you're just trying to numb it. And you know whatever pathway you can take there that's self-destructive, you know, as as human beings, we it's fight or flight, man. You know, that's that's what we are at the core. It's you're either going to stand to fight or you're just going to run. And it's easier to run. You know, but in the l in the at the end, it's actually the harder pathway. You know fucking Luly man. What's what's gonna what's gonna be what's easiest is to stand and fight for yourself and to put that work in rather than you know just mask it with alcohol or drugs or, you know, start weed, heroin, whatever. I mean I've seen you know I I've had you know I've taken care of a fair number of of veterans that land in the emergency department in crisis. Right. Um special operators, it's like I've I've taken care of a fair number of them. They they're there and it's like you know and for for civilians it's like how'd you get here? Yeah. Right? Like you are you know elite best of the best and nobody steps back and recognizes that you know that identity and that purpose the loss that that happens and then you know you just you're expected to just continue to be this warrior and this man and don't cry don't share your feelings because then you're not a man. Exactly. Right?

SPEAKER_00: 1:02:20

Yep.

SPEAKER_03: 1:02:21

You're trained that way you were trained that way.

SPEAKER_00: 1:02:24

People expect us to continue and that's why I always say kill the myth that it's an absolute myth that we're invincible that we're unbreakable. We're human beings we're flesh and bone right we just we just went through specialized training and it's easy it's easy to ignore it and to keep carrying and push it down in your rucksack when you're in a world that is so intoxicating the mission and the purpose and the identity is so fucking big it's easy it's easy to push it aside it it's that's the only thing that when you're jumping out of airplanes when you're doing dive ops when you're doing the sexiest things on earth when kids are playing video games about the things that you do it's easy to believe the hype and believe the myth. But and here's here's the the commonality the first time anything happens when you get a chink in your armor that's when the shit starts to come out when you have those surgeries where you're on downtime when you get removed from the team and get put in an administrative role that's when the shit starts to come out I always tell people it's like a NAS car or an F1 car. Well it's on when it's doing laps everything's tight everything's ready to go the moment you pit the moment when you come in that's when shit falls apart. Yeah you're no longer in that high stress operating mode. Now things can start to now you can have it in your foret I don't feel I'm human.

SPEAKER_03: 1:03:51

I'm human I'm not supposed to be human wait a minute why is this happen I'm not supposed to be I'm I'm I'm above human right so no I I see I definitely see how it happens man um and it's it's just it's heartbreaking you know to to have one of you guys you know middle of the night in an emergency department in a ball you know and it's like they they've tried they've tried they've been trying and nothing's worked and they've then they're desperate and they wind up there because they're they're killing they're gonna kill themselves. Yeah that's a change or they had or they were going to kill themselves and the police showed up and then it's a standoff and you know it's like man you know how I don't know I don't I that that's a very complex scenario man.

SPEAKER_00: 1:04:45

Yeah yeah we see it in the the one thing I will say shameless plug um for my green brace listening or if you're listening you're a member of the Greek great green bray family and you need resource please reach out to Special Forces Foundation. Now more than ever we have your back details in the description click the link check them out no request goes unanswered. You need help we pick up the phone I'm honored to be a part of that foundation it is a great mission. We love you guys we need you in here we need you guys to transition and be part of the greater community and your families deserve care. That's why it's easy for us to be able to carry on this this great mission of supporting you and your families because you deserve it. So please if you're suffering you want access to care hit up the Special Forces Foundation. We got your back always um it's it's one of the things where I realized like we have to be willing to talk about it we have to be willing to put it out there because there's nothing more important than killing the myth. You're a human being these are human problems and we all face them just like you have just like hundreds of my friends have it it's about life. You experience it in different you know different lives but it all comes back like our suffering is not unique to us. It's common humanity what ails me can ail Mike and everybody else out there. We just have to be willing to be vulnerable enough to talk about it and say hey our resources there's ways you can get better you know imposter syndrome imposter syndrome can get you man oh yeah and that's you know that's you're a high performer you're a high performer and individuals in your career field they deal with it too.

SPEAKER_03: 1:06:22

That's a thing like it's like oh fuck I did I really make it gone through all these boards when's the other shoe gonna drop when are they going to find out right that's a that's just that that's a destructive pathway in of itself too right yeah so it's um and and before before I let you go I I have to at least type tap into like you become a doctor you do all the specialized training how and when do you have time to do something like prep in the wild yeah I mean so prep prep em prep em really started um several years ago as an idea and you know I have been you know I I have been closely connected to to the a lot of the outdoor world right and a lot of people in there and in you know after I meet them you know and it's a compliment because you know they also dude you're like a cool doctor right and like I don't like I can come to you and I can ask you questions and you don't make me feel stupid or you know that type of thing. And that's just that's always been my practice right I'm not here to put you down and try to elevate myself like I why why do I need to do that to people? But unfortunately a lot of doctors will you know they may put you down they may belittle you make you feel dumb in the moment. So you don't ask questions. And so it's just the circle, you know my the circle of people just grew uh more people have my cell number they have me on speed dial. So if they're having an issue at home if they're having an issue out in the woods like hey man walk me through this what do I need to worry about how do I take care of this in the moment so there were a few key people that you know were like dude why why are you why are you doing this? And I'm like dude I just love helping people like I I mean that's that's just who I am and whenever you need help I'm gonna pick up the phone. And they're like no like you have a more than a full-time job and you're still picking up the phone for us. Like why don't why don't you make a business out of it so I just kind of married you know my 20 years of emergency medicine experience with the outdoors and no longer willing to just sit back and accept the fact of people coming you know into the emergency department into a trauma bay with these life-threatening emergencies where nothing was done. Right. So prepum is really you know the mindset you know and the skills knowledge to understand you know how to recognize it, how to manage it in the moment and having the right tools to do it. And you know I've I've bought a lot of med kits over the years only to get them in the mail and you know overpriced and I throw half the shit away as an right so as an ER doc, like I'm an ER doc, so I don't get you can put whatever you want in that kit. I know how to use it. But I started recognizing like if I'm throwing half the shit away because I don't see it as useful and as essential, what's everyone else how's everyone else seeing it? It's intimidating. So four key reasons that people don't want to carry a med kit, you know, bulk because you know ounces turn into pounds and turns into pain when we're out there, right? Um cost, you know, a lot of these things like two 300 bucks um they don't want to spend the money on that the whole uh the um not knowing the how to use the contents and then the ultimate one that's just unacceptable is well that shit's never going to happen to me. Yeah hasn't happened yet why is it gonna happen and I'll I I will tell you right now man if I had a dollar for every patient that I stood over in the trauma bay that said Doc I didn't I never thought this would happen to me man like be done. Like I I would be retired right now because you know it's statistics. I mean statistically you put yourself in a situation you put yourself in an environment that window closes statistically for something bad to happen right you can take all the necessary precautions you can you know think that you've got it all together but it can happen to you it happened to me and you know this that this is what I do and you know I'm out Colorado archery hunting you know for elk and I'm down in this canyon about eight miles and you know the bull blows out you know wind shifts on me the bull blows out of there I'm just in my head pissed off been a long week just a grind and that was my opportunity one opportunity and you know it blew it up so I stupidly step between two going down this mudslide area step between these two trees with my left leg my right foot gives out on the mudslide area and my knee hinges in there tear my MCL tear my meniscus and dude I'm eight I'm eight miles in so I've always you know I've always carried the little things right I've always carried the okay I got a blister on my heel I've you know I've got a four by four band-aid there and I can slap on there got some tough skin that type of thing right but in that moment I'm like shit I have nothing I have nothing to manage this like I don't have splint I don't have wraps like I I have nothing so you know I think combination of experiences and people just kind of motivating and saying you know it's a it's needed in the outdoor community right so be hat with all the experience and my business partner Jeff is an ER doc too and between the two of us we have 30 some years of ER experience together and it's like we feel that we can bring that to the table and benefit the community and if that and and the and the you know the bigger picture of all that man is if that can save an ER doc from sitting with a family and telling them their loved one didn't make it, then it comes full circle and we're helping our own community. We're helping the outdoor community we're helping ER docs around because they don't have to pronounce another person dead right which is which is what we live with and what haunts us and what keeps us awake is those pronouncements especially young people right and not to say any death is easy but there's a big difference between a hundred year old and a one month old right huge difference there. And you know I think you know this whole this whole mindset that that we develop in prepam is it just helps bring that full circle into protecting our community in the outdoors and emergency medicine.

SPEAKER_00: 1:13:05

Yeah yeah it's it's um it's something that we understand like we well we're in while we're in but if you don't practice it if you don't but like every every one of our vehicles has a kit and I quickly like it only takes that one time I'll never forget it and be caught with your pants down man. Be caught with your pants down.

SPEAKER_03: 1:13:28

You don't have it and you need it ooh you're gonna remember that and uh I had that stuff with dude I have this I have this stuff with me all the time because it's not just about you you know and it's like you don't have to be you're not a you know these these aren't designed for just hunters. You know if you're trail running if you're hiking if you're climbing if you're mountain biking if you're you know for ATV you know ATV and all over the place you know snowmobiling whatever you travel the roads you travel the highways day in and day out. You know how many accident scenes I've come across in my day right no like you may be the first person on scene because statistically it's not us. No you don't have an ER doc there showing right up you know first person on scene when you have an accident. No it's gonna be a bystander or it's gonna be law enforcement right most of the time it's a bystander that's calling 911 and then the next person on scene is going to be a police officer a lot of the times and what I found what I've found in all this though, my younger brother's a cop, right? So he's an officer. You know I talked to him about this and he's like dude we hardly get any like you know yeah we do stop the bleed but as far as the other big things look out for, you know, and I've talked to a lot of people in that community now like hey you know what are you what are you guys getting like you know and think of you know think of the trauma they endure by being the first person on scene and not having the skills and knowledge to take care of that. They have to live with that they have to live with that man. So you know that that's a haunting thing there. Like you're the first person and you're watching somebody bleed out like that's the that's the nightmare fuel there man. So and you know I I was surprised to find out that a lot of you know law enforcement told me like dude we get minimal minimal so you know we're setting out to change that and work with organizations to if if you know not if you know doing you know hands-on trainings of how to recognize the big bad things right when you see a deformity of a knee you know everybody thinks oh they broke their knee what if it's a dislocated knee and how do you assess that in the moment how do you check for pulses to see if their vascular supply is disrupted right and they're gonna lose their leg man if you don't if you don't expedite this you dislocate your knee you're shearing your popleteal artery and you're going to lose your leg unless you get to a send a center with the right services to care for that within the time frame right and we've just seen so much of that over the years where it's unrecognized you know not managed you know not taken care of and then people get really bad news.

SPEAKER_00: 1:16:17

So yeah we've been really good yeah we've been really good about talking about tourniquets so that like that at least that's in the forefront but and I've tons of my friends like that aren't in the military, don't have an affiliation they're like they're quick to point out like I got my tourniquets in there I'm like okay that's cool. Now that's cool but there's a wide range of shit that you should be prepared for.

SPEAKER_02: 1:16:38

So let's get on tourniquets.

SPEAKER_03: 1:16:41

All right so I did a post on this on our social here recently tourniquets you know is it all great is is it all great or is there some bad there? Yeah and you know look I'm not I'm not gonna speak negative about stop the bleed because you know they're they're out there doing an essential thing and teaching people how to use tourniquets. What we see on the back end though is now there's a lot of tourniquet applications occurring. Yes and does every bleeding wound need a tourniquet you know no like we're seeing and having a very basic like the most basic understanding of anatomy knowing where those major blood vessels are right yes groin behind the knee you know anterior of your of your tibia and right behind your you know that inner part your medial malleolus of your ankle right like knowing where those arteries are right you know your axillary your your your brachial those types of things and just having a very basic understanding you can Google that Google it you know arterial m arterial uh diagram of the human body so if if you're taking care of somebody and you see a big gash back here and you go slamming a tourniquet on high and tight well guess what guess what and well in and tourniquets don't come without risk yeah so once you you know within two hours you know evidence you know you're you're you're not gonna end up with an amputation like it's it's close to zero percent amputation once you start getting a four six hours man you know six hours it's like you got flip a coin if you're if your extremity is going to get amputated. Yeah so you go putting a tourniquet on for somebody that's got to cut across their tricep where there's no major artery and pressure packing and a proper dressing will manage it and you're eight miles down in a canyon that's going to take you four hours to hike out like when I you know I hurt my knee and it's like now you just you may have cost them their arm. Yeah. Right? So that's that's part of what we're doing too in just you know helping people recognize what are the what are the right things what are the do's and do nots you know that that that everyone should have a basic understanding. But yes everyone should be carrying tourniquets and I think any essential med kit that's advertised as such that doesn't come with a tourniquet is not is not essential by definition. You know ours has all the things for you know the common everyday stuff but then you know clotting gauze and tourniquets as well. Not both. There's an ascent there's a there's a basic one that comes without the gauze and tourniquet for those that already carry it and just want to add to that. And then there's you know the pro model that comes with the the gauze and tourniquet and um within this month next month we'll have a mass hemorrhage kit put together. Hell yeah. Yeah but yeah so that's that's gonna be that's gonna be for people that have a a little better understanding um and skill set. You know if you need to do a needle decompression on somebody's chest the needles in there you know chest seals oh yeah you know uh honk a big honk and piece of clotting gauze three by thirty nine inches that you just plug some holes with that maybe oh that's nice yeah wound clot yeah wound I love that I love this wound clot gauze that we that we carry in ours so if You if you're not familiar with them, check them out. Wound clot. Um, you know, it it's a biodegradable. You know, the cool thing about it is we don't have to go digging that stuff out. We don't have to go finding it. Yeah. Um, it's non-toxic. It's just a cellulous-based product that's gonna help you clot, um, and it can just be left there. Nice. Oh, yeah. It's not chemicals, so um, that stuff can just be left there. We don't have to go, we don't have to go in and disrupt what's already injured and cause more damage and more bleeding.

SPEAKER_00: 1:20:35

I like that. And if you're gonna be in Chicago anytime soon, get one of those kids.

SPEAKER_02: 1:20:40

Yeah, if you're going to Chicago, man, just strap that put that shit on like a book bag.

SPEAKER_00: 1:20:50

Mike, I can't thank you enough for being here, man. This has been an absolute fucking blast, man. We're gonna have to do a part two because brother, you're you're you're part of the community. You're one of us, whether you like it or not, man. Appreciate you, man. Appreciate you. Uh, if people want to get a hold of you or check out what you guys got, where can you go?

SPEAKER_03: 1:21:07

So um prep'emwild.com is our website. P-R-E-P-E-M wild.com. Um uh social handles, it's uh prep'em underscore wild for Instagram. That's the main one that we that we post on, and then we Facebook and TikTok too. So um also on there. A lot of the Facebook and TikTok stuff is just you know carried over from Instagram. So but um yeah, get a lot of engagement, encourage engagement. So if you have questions, you know, certainly it's never a bother. If you have topics that you want covered, you know, if there's these burning things that you want to know more about, we love that. Like somebody just reached out to me today. I did a post yesterday on hyperbaric medicine, and somebody asked me, like, hey, what's the difference between home units and commercial units? And why does it matter? And are there any positive effects for people that are not injured? And the answer is yes, there are many. So, you know, we we love that stuff, man. Like education is what education is what we love. You know, we love doing that. So if you have any questions, just comment, you know, follow along. Uh, from the website every week, I put out a blog post on Saturday mornings just focusing on topics, short reads. It's not doctor-ish. It's not a white paper, folks. No, it's not a freaking research paper that no one can understand. I put it in, you know, everything's in layman's terms. And um, you know, put one of those out every Saturday. So if you subscribe on our website with your email, and the promise is you're not getting inundated with marketing shit. It's I don't have time for that. I don't have time to be sitting there sending you email after email every day. It's just really updates if you know new product release or you know, mainly every Saturday you get an email that hey, the blog's up if you want to read it, you know, on that topic. So, you know, try to try to do some really cool stuff with that.

SPEAKER_00: 1:23:06

Heck yeah, man. Well, there you go, folks. Do me a favor, pause, go to the episode description, click those links, subscribe for that blog post, be ready to learn some stuff. And uh, yeah, man, it's um it's great to have you in the community being out there doing this stuff because you know when we get out, we want to look for brotherhood. And I think one of the easiest things for us to do as veterans is get plugged in with people that want to learn more about medicine and emergency management and stuff like that. And I see a lot of guys going into those service industries and and they they find themselves in these little groups where they're going out there hunting, they're going out and fishing, and the first thing people want to know is like, oh, what can you teach us about survival or or being out in the wild? And uh the community that you're building, it's it's it's a lot of veterans, a lot of people that like learning about this stuff and sharing their knowledge for more uh what they learned when they were in the service. My hat's off to you for what you're doing, and I can't wait to see where it goes. And yeah, I got another, I gotta talk to you after we we finish this because I got another show to bring you on. So yeah, I'm still gonna bring you on. So yeah. I appreciate you.

SPEAKER_03: 1:24:10

This is a lot of fun. Now, I always enjoy doing these where I can you know be myself without judgment and uh you know, and and shed a different light on what doctors can be and and who some of us are. Absolutely, man.

SPEAKER_00: 1:24:24

I appreciate it. I appreciate you giving me the platform to do this. Dude, thank you. And everybody listening, thank you all for tuning in. We'll see y'all next time. Till then, take care. SecureDob Podcast is proudly sponsored by Titan's Arms. Head up to the episode description and check out Titan's Arms today.