Transcript

Eli

Hello and welcome to teaching my cat to read the very serious Book Review podcast I'm Eli. I'm M.

Lotti

And I'm Lottie. And this week we're discussing everything about what makes a good adaptation.

Second thing is I genuinely can't start the podcast until like you've done that my brain is like there needs to be a beat.

Lotti

Jingle Jingle Jingle.

Ha ha ha.

And using Jingle Jingle?

Provides the necessary structure for my brain to be quietly listeners. I go listen to like all the old episodes, you will realise the vote I pick up where this starts and it's just a thing now and it happens all the time.

Eli

So I have to, uh, as part of my job, I give talks and.

Eli

Half the time when I'm like practising to myself, I start my talk just like hello I'm Eli and this.

Eli

Is my job title.

Eli

I'm here to talk about this, but so I'm offering I go hello and welcome to teaching my cat.

Did you get that?

Second thing is like I suspect.

My like my my giving presentation voice is not my podcast voice because my giving presentation, voice, voice is crippled by fear in a way that like but I do. I do feel like they they probably tap into the same like.

Yeah, the same energy like the same energy, yeah?

Lotti

I was told once I sounded like a cross between the people you listened to to learn English from in the CD in the car and a primary school teacher went. Wow page.

Lotti

You give excellent presentation. No it is. It is so fair. I go so posh.

Eli

Well, I'm like extra loopy today and I'm probably going to be more incomprehensible because last night, so at time of recording I think this.

Eli

One is coming up.

Fairly soon, maybe? Yeah, I think it is, yeah.

Eli

So this won't be too out of date. So last night we had our own party or my friend.

Eli

Posted and Purim is the Jewish holiday where you are mandated. We're literally commanded to get really, really drunk, obviously firing.

Eli

You know, if you have health reasons to not do so, or like you know if you're in recovery, like going to a programme party might not be particularly for you, but I am profoundly hungover now, so please bear that in mind.

Eli

As we go on to yell about adaptations.

Be kind, be kind to Eli in your thoughtcrimes.

Lotti

You lie.

Don't don't shine bright lights at them or.

Make loud noises.

The only thing I remember from 'cause we did Purim here last year as I put my foot in hamantash and then I wasn't even.

Drunk, yeah, that's.

My main memory.

Speaker 2

Oh yeah.

I feel good though.

There it goes fine.

Lotti

So we kick.

Off, yes, sorry this is the baking podcast. We're talking about desserts again.

Who would you?

Eli

Cast in the live action adaptation of the The Purim story. Mega Lester.

Second, OK, I'm going to lead with a basic ***** question I'm afraid. What is your guys favourite adaptation and what, in your opinion is the best adaptation? And if those are different like I want to hear about it like?

Is there a difference between your favourite and?

The best oh.

Lotti

See, I think I have a special place in my heart for the 1995 adaptation of Pride and Prejudice.

Lotti

Oh yeah, like I read the book for GCC, I definitely read it before GCC then and and I really liked how close the adaptation was the book so it made studying it a lot easier for me because I think in somewhere in some cases are a bit of a visual audio learner, so it made it a lot easier and back then audio books were like.

Lotti

Less accessible couldn't get.

Lotti

Your hands on.

Lotti

Them like gold dust cassette.

What to do? So click tapes from the local library in those like horrible D plastic or CGS. Yeah, like you couldn't get them.

Lotti

So like I, I think I've really appreciated that that version of fried bread, so I think that's probably the best one.

I had a really similar experience. Yeah, with like I most of my revision.

Was like 'cause I'd I'd seen it often enough. Me and my sister. We had a thing. Well man, I still do.

Eli

This it's such good comfort TV, you know.

Yeah, we just rewatched it. We we watched it enough that I could quote it really easily.

Speaker 2

Huh, huh?

And because it's they basically lift the dialogue straight out of.

Lotti

The book yeah yeah yeah.

Lotti

I love it.

Well, so vision too.

Lotti

Yeah it does. It does, I guess aligned to that also much to do about nothing like I think.

Lotti

That as a revision tool.

Eli

It's not like is it an adaptation that I guess it is an adaptation when you do it as a movie instead of.

Eli

Staged production

Yeah, I mean they're all adaptations, so it's kind of interesting 'cause you would like skirting into the like classic.

Almost the classical music thing of like yeah, a given performance of it is an entity in its own right.

Yeah exactly, Oh my God, you can tell I've been doing too much programming 'cause my brain was like it's an instantiate. It's an individual instantiation of a class object.

Eli

I have a lot to each of these and my favourite adaptation is the Lord of the Rings.

Lotti

Movies yes, actually love them.

Eli

Yeah, I don't think it's the best, only interesting. I think the best adaptation I have seen is the good Omens TV series.

Oh OK, that's interesting. I.

Speaker 2

I mean, I think that.

Lotti

I think I haven't read Lord of the Rings books. It's on my To Do List. You've got the audiobooks like I'm going to.

Ah yeah.

Lotti

Get there.

Lotti

Eventually, and.

Lotti

And I think I love, I love Lord.

Lotti

The rings, as again comfort watch where the music, the score. There's the whole vibes, but it's one of those things where I probably wouldn't ever read the book first before watching the film.

Lotti

It's like one of those like I'm watching The Expanse now. It's based off a book I might pick up the book.

Lotti

Because the adaptation is.

Lotti

Quite good, so yeah, it falls into that category for me like it's.

Lotti

Good enough to make me go and want to pick up.

Lotti

The book and read it. Yeah, well, actually I might even see I.

Eli

I don't have necessarily like well formed opinions on this, and like I think there's definitely an argument to be made of Lord of the Rings being the best adaptation like it is.

Eli

It is very, very good. The Martian is also very good and I think what I like about the good omens adaptation and the Martian adaptation is that they both.

Eli

Took a very intentional approach to the change in.

Medium yeah yes yeah.

Eli

Whereas I think the Lord of the Rings.

Eli

Maybe I'm not going to.

Eli

Say it didn't do that. The thing is, I I don't think it needs it to.

The same extent.

So what other things that struck me when you were talking about both the Lord of the Rings and the Martian is that I think they both took their adaptations for me both.

Took aspects of the book that I found initially quite.

Dull and turned them into something that I could actually enjoy. So in Lord of the Rings, the first time I tried to read it because the second time I tried to read it, I just absorbed it in a sitting and I adored every moment of it.

Eli

Yeah, you stuff it down.

The first time I read it, I found a lot of the day walk, walk, walk, walk, walk, walk.

Eli

That Tom Carney?

Eli

Tik T.O.K, yeah?

I found that stuff really difficult to get through, but The thing is, in a visual medium it's just a montage and it's a gorgeous montage with an amazing soundtrack, and I think that's how you should see that. You know, I think that like that really worked.

And that with the Martian I had a similar thing with the science.

Because I'm not, yeah.

I'm not that good at that stuff.

I my brain tends to switch off, particularly if I'm reading it. If somebody explaining it at me, I find it easier to follow, but so I basically just didn't read any of the kind of like the MacGyver ING type stuff in the Martian.

He goes into a lot of detail about like how he fixed the hab or why the.

Where this signal works and all that all of that sort of the technical stuff that I know all the engineers of my acquaintance got really into, I just skipped in the book pretty much.

And then in the film, because you just again, you just watch him do it. Mostly it's.

Lotti

A bit more passive, but I find.

Lotti

That bit easier, yeah?

And you have you have people workshopping it and they put the character work in a bit more in a way I don't know it.

'cause it was more instantaneous and there was less of it. So I didn't feel like I was getting bogged down in the the minutiae of how the problem solving worked.

Lotti

Mrs Pickett. Yeah yeah yeah.

Eli

So in in those situations, I guess what you're describing is something that you yeah, something that was a drawback in the book.

It's better suited to adaptation than it is to text in a lot of.

Lotti

Ways, yeah, I think it's one of those things where like if you're not really into it, it becomes a very difficult read.

Lotti

And like say maybe it's like for me this might be something Lord of the rings, like reading it with a physical book I found quite difficult, so this I'm going to have another.

Lotti

Go at it with audio book.

Lotti

Yeah, to be honest I I mean half the reason I love brand Sampson because I know what I'm getting myself into.

Lotti

It's it's a very like not copy paste, but it's it's very like he has a you know? Yeah, but the books comes out it's not hot.

Lotti

It is high fantasy, but at the same time it's not like really in depth. I don't have to engage my brain, I can just switch off for three hours and just.

OK.

Lotti

Read and that's fine, and it makes me.

Lotti

Yeah, yeah, it's actually like I know what I'm getting myself into, whereas say something like to be honest, if I hadn't read wheel of time before now, I probably again would probably struggle to get into it.

Eli

And like dependable, you know, yeah.

What's mean like yeah?

Lotti

'cause it's such a big series because I started reading it when I had. You know, nothing else better to do with my time.

This is what I mean about Kid M would have been super into it, but adult.

Eli

Yeah, like he being a teenager with no friends and all the spare time at school because I was just didn't do.

M is tired.

Yeah, and like my read speed when I was a teenager was off the charts.

Eli

Work in school.

Lotti

I know it was I still I I see.

Lotti

Getting ready to high heaven and until like the tree fell down and we had no nutritional. Nothing else. Better to do other than read books.

Lotti

I don't think I've.

Ever got back to that speed? Yeah, it's it's interesting 'cause I feel like I go back to books that I spend read in childhood and I get more out of them now.

'cause I think I read better. Yeah, well you have the.

Eli

Benefit of like.

Eli

You know years of life experience as well. Yeah, and.

But I think I also I don't rush in the same way. I'm more like I'm a I'm a more I don't want to mindful reader, but I feel like I've I've finally hit that place where I'm like. I am paying enough attention to this that I'm picking up on.

Lotti

Yeah, OK.

And I can appreciate the craft of it without getting like bogged down in like the secret academic that lives in my brain going you.

Should be taking notes.

Lotti

Yeah, it's something else. OK, so I think we'll have time as a favourite adaptation like I do have. I mean, as bonus episodes and chats with our friends or the podcast will say like I didn't. I didn't think with 100% perfect, but I think one of the things.

Lotti

I think I love it is the fact that now there's so many more of my friends like Umm, you know you fresh and I can like talk to you about in society. So I've loved for so long, yeah and you don't have to read the book.

Yeah yeah, yeah. 'cause I'm. I'm absolutely not going to and it's really nice to be.

Able to share.

That with you now. Yeah, exactly like.

Lotti

It's such a huge.

Lotti

Yeah, simply like with Lord of the Rings, you know before you had those adaptations. If you are someone who found those books quite dense, it was just in it as it inaccessible. Like you weren't going.

Lotti

To know that story.

It's a cultural touchstone that you're.

Sort of missing out on. Yeah yeah yeah.

Eli

It's one of those things that's making me really, really salty about the fact that the Amazon upcoming Amazon series does not look how I hoped it might is because the Silmarillion could really use that treatment, right? Because there's so much cool.

Speaker 2

Yeah, yeah.

Eli

Stuff in there.

Eli

But people just never got to read it, and not fair enough because it is absolutely like you think the Lord of the Rings is.

Eli

Dried so Marillion is like the Sahara.

Yeah, I mean I, I read I read dry stuff for my degree, the whole of my degree was like hey, will you read the most dried up, crusty you've ever seen in your life?

And I still couldn't get past 2 pages at The Silmarillion.

Eli

Yeah, and I absolutely love the summary and I adore it, but it would be I don't want.

Eli

People to have to read it.

Eli

In order to enjoy it, yeah, and it's a. It's a shame that I don't think the upcoming adaptation is going to do that, and it means that there won't be an adaptation that does do that because fricking copyright and, you know, I.

Lotti

Find it really frustrating that like.

Lotti

And there is an adaptation that absolutely trashes source material, and I'm not talking about like I, I mean, like I have problems, say with the real time adaptation that safety trouble pairing, fricking like killing his wife.

Lotti

I'm like no what you didn't need to do that, no, yeah, an Amazon executive made that change and I hate it. And there's changes in episode 8 due to COVID that they had to make that I also.

Lotti

Don't agree with.

Lotti

But like like say for example I remember, so the Shannara chronicles, right? I loved those books when I was a teenager, got them from classic book fair. I remember sitting in the cinema and his trailer started and I.

Lotti

Was like, oh.

Lotti

Oh, this is very much like those books I read. All this all might be.

Lotti

Into this and.

Lotti

I was like, wait a minute Mr Books I read and I was really really excited.

Lotti

About this series.

Lotti

Yeah, and then it.

Lotti

Was just.

Eli

Not good, not good.

Lotti

So disappointed, because The thing is that that the later books.

Lotti

Have so much to given them, it's such.

Lotti

An interesting intergeneration.

Lotti

General scope of a story that and then it was all because the adaptation was it's it doesn't get anything more like.

Lotti

Same with The Hobbit.

Eli

Are we gonna? Are we going to talk about?

Eli

Game of Thrones. In this episode, I mean we.

Might have to.

Lotti

I mean I, I watched all the bits mainly for the lady had the dragon. That was my insight into these and also.

Eli

He thinks his character and then they did her such a ********* disservice.

Speaker 2

I know I'm like I.

Lotti

Haven't even seen season eight and I know it.

Eli

Don't because like there isn't enough whiskey in the.

Eli

World so I like. I read the plot.

Lotti

And I was going.

Lotti

Wait, I am a passing view of this. When I was stressed during my undergrad and I was like, oh, let's just watch this.

Lotti

For the you know, everyone else is watching it, so I'll just you.

Lotti

Know see what it's about and it's not.

Lotti

I'm not, I'm a bit like about it. I'm not going to read the books, I don't. I'm not this, not not.

Lotti

My cup of tea, but I like dragon lady and I like.

Lotti

Aria, and you're like, OK, I can get behind.

Lotti

And then it was like, yeah, I've.

Eli

Let's just completely butcher any like you know 'cause, because the books themselves right.

Eli

So Game of Thrones we have not real time.

Eli

Somewhere so far, yeah.

Eli

Different epic decades long fantasy series like George RR Martin's been writing it since like the 70s. I want to say.

Eli

And you know there are people who have been fans of this. Yeah, for decades.

Eli

And then to have this show come out and just trash the source material and just not do it justice.

Eli

It's such an insult to that appreciation that those fans have for it. I mean, it kind of thinking about adaptations that don't have respect for their fan bases.

Me too.

Yeah yeah, I wondered when we get to.

Eli

BBC show

That Charlotte yeah 'cause they hate us. They hated us like the every time they did like a fan insert character and.

Eli

Every chance they get to take a jab.

At nerd girls, because The thing is they don't want it to be a nerd girl show because they have no respect for nerd girls, despite the fact that we make the world.

Go round, thank you. Yeah no girls. Gender neutral yeah yeah like Garland the way a ship is a.

Girl but.

Eli

Yeah, yeah, like transformative approach to a phantom rather than a curative 1.

Lotti

It is kind of like I remember when like when Charlotte first came out and I was like, oh, this is, you know, it's I hadn't read the books and I thought oh this is a good show. And then as it went on and on, I was like oh what I liked was you know.

Lotti

Ah, Moriarty guy according his name.

Lotti

Is he's a brilliant?

I wonder Scott, yeah I love him.

Lotti

Future the answer one he did such a good job and you're like.

Lotti

OK, I'm watching with these particular characters and then when it got it went off the rails with that Christmas episode where it was like and everyone woke up from a dream and.

Lotti

They were on drugs, I didn't.

Even make it that.

Lotti

Far and like I remember my entire family.

Eli

Jumping the shark.

Lotti

It was like the thing we watched on Christmas Day or EVE or whatever and.

CC-3PX

Speaker 2

I remember we all sit in.

Lotti

There and we looked each other going.

Lotti

The food, did we just watch? I want we just wasted hours online for this and it's.

Lotti

Like it was.

Lotti

Like 20 and they all woke up from a dream.

Lotti

Like you know when.

Lotti

You're 7 and they don't put that in your creative writing.

Whatever you do, do you all do that? Yeah.

Eli

You know it is a good series of homes adaptations. That's just like they just ported the books directly to screen.

Eli

It's the Jeremy Brett series and I grew up on those. Elementary is also amazing, but it is far more transformative.

Yeah, yeah yeah, it's very much. It's a modern day you and you're right, yeah?

Lotti

Yeah, it's a lot and a new version of sure. I think like if you had to pick BBC Charlotte Voters Elementary as modern.

Lotti

AU the Ellen

Lotti

Entry does oh mile yes.

Yeah, even though I think elementary in terms of plot is further away.

From the the uh.

Eli

It doesn't take its plots from it, it it it?

Eli

It drops hints and so you've got things like Charles Augustus Milverton still being a blackmailer for example, but it doesn't.

Eli

You know they're so they're so different for the modern day and there are lots of plots that just.

Eli

Based in Canon.

But like yeah, they take characters.

And that's sort of that seems to be kind of it. I take what I think it works better as an and this is just thinking about form now.

But like I think the American style of sort of cops, professional suits, Sherlock Holmes better? Well, that's kind of how they came out, right? They were short like installations of instalments.

Lotti

Yeah, yeah yeah, I'm sorry.

Yeah, yeah.

Eli

And so that kind of it. Yeah, I I see.

Eli

When he added the people who adopted elementary thought sad thought about they actually treated the source material with far more respect and understanding of like where it lies in the landscape of the fiction that it was in its time.

Yeah, yeah.

Eli

And you know the kind of people who were into it, whereas you know Moffat and Gatiss just want everybody to think that they have.

Eli

The most Galaxy brains of all time.

Yeah, and they I I don't, I don't. I don't want to spoil anything for anybody but they they do not. They are dumb.

Eli

Don't they really don't?

Right?

Eli

Misogynist to be as well. Everybody should watch. Export more guys video about.

Lotti

It like I think for.

Lotti

For me, like an adaptation like a good at that patient.

Lotti

Like I said, it'll either a introduce my friends to a series that I've loved and I can talk to them about it or be like it's opening up. You know there are going to be changes from the book.

Lotti

To a film or TV show like that is absolutely given. Like you can't pack them all in. But then when it deviates so.

Lotti

Much, and it's also like if it deviates and it's good. You're like OK, this is like.

Yeah yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2

Well, go back.

Eli

To good omens, they added stuff in and they changed they. They they extended the ending.

Eli

And I mean partly, that's because it was Neil Gamon was doing it, and so you know he one of the the the living one of the.

Two or.

Eli

So you know, obviously understand has an innate understanding of the.

Eli

Source material it worked that.

Eli

Worked, but if they had done it it be.

Eli

Garbage or sucked?

I tell you, I tell you what as well the other way, that the good omens adaptation is a very strong like adaptation. If the book is that the stuff that's not about as raffle and Crowley, I don't give it.

About yes, like.

Speaker 2

The book.

It is very true to the original like the the week is this that's not as in Crowley and that is also true of the adaptation.

Lotti

I mean to be honest, like it's.

Lotti

Kind of when we talked about that like so, I watched the.

Lotti

Show and hadn't.

Lotti

Read the book and when I watched the show the thing I loved about it.

Lotti

Was Crowley and Aphorist Cecile, whose name I can't pronounce because it's not, that's that's arafel 'cause it's not written in front of me and it selected thing anyway and I love their like their banter like crowleys. You know he plays Queen joins or Bentley like that entire.

Lotti

Like a set up was brilliant, I couldn't, I I again I couldn't really care about the kids. I couldn't really give it about like I, I just want I just want like that's what I cared about.

Lotti

I will clean up and Bentley playing Queen I want. Yeah, as a Raphael in his book shop in London in Soho and and I think.

Lotti

In the adaptation, they leaned into it a bit more, because that is what people like.

I mean most of the new material was there's yeah, and I think that was, uh, yeah, that was the thing that I really liked about.

Eli

It yeah, and it shows an.

Eli

Understanding of the audience, essentially.

Also, I think the other thing I like about the good omens adaptation and we are going to, for now, leave out the word of God. Also, what's it about? Clear narrative and good omens because.

Then it.

Eli

Neil Gaiman.

Eli

Do better challenge 2022.

Yeah yeah yeah. Well just stop talking just.

Don't worry about it anyway.

One of the things I quite liked was the kind of I feel like the the book narrative, the the sort of it's a different queer narrative like the way aziraphale, specifically because they added more of the angels than as a raffles interactions with the angels. You've got a lot more of this.

Eli

Kind of get the homophobic family.

Yeah, yeah yeah. And it's kind of like.

You know?

You've been stuck trying to be good TM for so long and like this. Yeah, just it was a very and they're kind of like knowing him knowing maybe that Carla loves him and that they you know that he would be there for him and not still not being able to quite.

Be like.

Actually, yes, I can commit to this. I could, you know, the bandstand. Break up, you know, there was some really.

Good stuff in there.

Eli

He's got, he's got things to work through, yeah.

Yeah yeah yeah. And I think that's it's a very different yeah.

Eli

Look, we don't get that pain in the day.

Yeah yeah, and I think that I really appreciated that about it. That was something that I.

Really enjoyed.

But I think they sometimes they did a similar. I felt like some of the stuff that they did was a bit like the way that Sherlock.

Would be like yeah we're not gay you know the the sort of like it? Yeah, yeah.

Eli

Let's make lots and lots of jokes about the fact that these two men might be in love with each other and then.

Eli

Laugh at you for thinking that there might be something to that.

Yeah, it just felt it felt like.

A lot of those were badly placed in that.

Like because of just everything else that was going on. It felt more like the reason this is funny is because they're not dating that.

That's the joke that people think they're dating, and they're not. And for that to be like juxtaposed with the very queer as they are failing his terrible family narrative.

Lotti

I don't know.

I felt that was that was an odd. It was an.

Odd choice mean in a way. It felt mean and I didn't.

Lotti

It felt.

Eli

I didn't really enjoy it, but like I've seen people who did, you know, like I would have loved. Imagine if it was like a little side running joke that they keep trying to find time to like.

Eli

Go on a nice date.

Eli

Together when they just can't, because the.

Eli

World don't think you know that.

Yeah yeah, yeah.

Lotti

Will be a much funnier but yeah, yeah, yeah it annoys me as a token straights this person because everything is catered quote.

Lotti

For me in that sense, and like it's.

Eli

You know?

Lotti

It was one of the things I really appreciate about wheel of time adaptation is that they.

Lotti

Like they they were like.

Oh yeah, same same, same, same in.

Lotti

The books Marine, and so I'll have a relationship when they're younger.

Lotti

And then it's like man we were graduation now, so that's not a thing in the TV shows like, no, it's.

Lotti

Still the same and.

Lotti

I was like thank you, why the hell could they end like a 10 year long relationship? Because they've just graduated from magic uni like you know.

Lotti

Like what you know in the books, it is very yeah blatantly said that the.

Lotti

I said I have.

Lotti

Relationships with multiple of the waters, so why would the war does not have relationships?

Lotti

With each other, well, anyone.

Lotti

No, that and it's and it's just in the.

Lotti

Show it's there from the out.

Lotti

Set and like.

Eli

Yeah, and it's just not not sort of made a.

Lotti

No, it's just there and and it made me.

Eli

Big view of it is.

Lotti

Like yeah just very happy for like look it's representation, not hard.

Lotti

Also, please just make some of the main characters like queer so like yeah, but like you know it just it just made me happy as a media.

Yeah, I I really. I really actually one of the things I enjoyed about the adaptation was how character driven it.

Well, and I think a lot of that that wasn't sort of, but the yeah, the relationships that we got to see like yeah, the relationships between the borders and how tight knit the village group is.

And I felt like that was they. They were like what's the beating heart of this? Oh, it's the people. And then they really went for it and I really like that.

I thought that was a really good.

Eli

Choice yeah, which is, and I think that's where Game of Thrones really fell down.

Eli

Because because what happened was they caught up to the books right there. It's a it's a problem that anime has been dealing with since anime has been a thing adapting.

Eli

Ranger, and they had the opportunity to, you know, the world. They had to write their own material or get George RR Martin to try, and you know, contribute some material and it could have gone either way.

Eli

It could have been amazing and it really, really wasn't, and I think it's because for all, like for whether or not you'd like the Game of Thrones to.

Eli

The song by fire book.

Yeah, they.

Eli

Are very very character driven. Each character does have motivations that are consistent, but by and large, and you know obviously it falls. It's it's flaky in some parts, but.

Yeah, but it struck me as very much like need against need against need kind of setup. When I read it.

Eli

Yeah, exactly it does that and it completely.

Eli

The the The the show just completely threw that all out the window in favour of not even well structured plot.

Eli

Just flashy moments and cool lines and shock value and it just it just it doesn't. It doesn't stand up. You know you think about Lord of the.

Rings it's been 20 years. I still get shivers every every single. I know your face, yeah.

Eli

Yeah, every single time I get chills like those those movies will be good forever. Game of Thrones had it's like 15 minutes and it's there.

Eli

Want to forget about it as soon.

Eli

As it was over.

Lotti

And I was so frustrated like one of the reasons that I liked watching the show was I couldn't care about the politics. It was the actors and the characters.

Lotti

Like you know that they were so evil.

Lotti

Imperative or you know it was kind of bacterion great like political as a manipulator, but you know political player Charles Dance, his character, his name.

Lotti

I've gotten Tywin Lannister, that's the one like they're all. Just I couldn't give it yet. About like you know, any of the other crap that they flow in because.

Lotti

It's like, Oh yes, it's it's an 18 plus. So we need to have naked people like nobody cares about.

Lotti

Give us politics, no biggie about naked people like oh sorry.

Speaker 2

Yeah, tell you.

Eli

What the Witcher season 2 has absolutely done it does.

Eli

Does not have any of that in the second season and the first season they would say, oh, we gotta have some nudity because like you know, to show that we're in adult show.

Lotti

They they said they thought they had to be like Game of Thrones and it's like I think wheel of time had that in its first episode and like oh look, it's gory.

Lotti

Yes, people think everything got to be like Game of Thrones to be fantasy and it doesn't. It really doesn't like the one thing I love about.

Lotti

The wheel of time books is. It's all like cut to black so it you don't.

Lotti

You know, if you don't want to read that or.

Lotti

Any if it's not there.

Eli

And sometimes that could be creepier like that.

Eli

Could be really effective.

Yeah, like they're having to imagine it for yourself. It's so often worse, yeah, than anything. It also could specifically say to you, well, Speaking of.

The horror stuff, I guess not the sex.

Although bad sex writing is one of the things that will throw me out of books so.

Freaking fast and greed like.

Just if you. If you can't do it, don't do it. There's fade to Black is a noble and ancient tradition.

If you can't write.

Eli

Good sex, just don't write cheques. Your pics if you don't have anything nice to say. Don't say anything at all if you don't have any good sets to write. Don't wear any anyway. Not that that's.

Lotti

So did I will drop them.

The point of this episode.

Lotti

Moving on game.

Eli

Of Thrones and therefore Peter Dinklage, is the Serrano adaptation. Oh.

It's it's out. It came out in late February. I haven't seen it yet. I'm really excited. It's.

Eli

Have you seen it?

Eli

Ah, it's gonna always get asked you to to give your yeah, so that's that's that's out and I I would also like to see it. But also like going to uh.

On my list, yeah.

Eli

MDMA is still not like.

Oh yeah, I'm not even for Cyrano diversion rack. I'm a bit like.

Eli

We're still we are.

I maybe I won't.

Eli

Still in the middle of a global pandemic, whatever Matt Hancock has just been heard saying on.

The radio idiot any like? Oh, did you see that headline was like COVID experts baffled as to why numbers going up and the next line in the article was all restrictions were lifted.

Speaker 2

That's it, Jesus Christ.

Eli

Yeah, I mean these are just the lifting of all COVID related restrictions.

Lotti

Like I wonder if Illegit could tell you that like.

Eli

Oh my goodness.

Lotti

But it's fine, it's fine. We've got our laptop closed eyes now.

We are we are.

We've got the table where everything from fire.

Eli

We are we are.

Eli

So not staying on topic today.

Lotti

Sorry, I'm supposed to be wrangling the cats and I'm just letting you guys talk. 'cause I'm yeah, it's in the end through adaptations and you know the stuff we had to look to watch over the.

It's interesting.

Lotti

Pandemic 'cause there.

Lotti

Was nothing that was meant to do gaol locked.

Speaker 2

Down, you know?

Eli

Hey, the which is technically an adaptation we could?

Eli

Talk about eyes.

It is.

All, let's be fair, have any.

Of us read the.

Source material no.

No play games or yeah.

I'm probably not.

Going to but I did enjoy it a lot, so you know who knows.

Lotti

It is one of those things where it's like it's so similar to the six of Crows adaptation, whose name I've forgotten such as shadow and bone, like I do want to read six of crows because of the adaptation and it was like kind of the level of I don't have to engage my brain to watch this. It's happy and like.

Eli

Oh shadow bug.

Hey dad.

Lotti

I say happy like it. The show is obviously quite dark in places, but I.

It is. It's like why a?

Lotti

But not.

Dark, it's not like, yeah, see.

It it it it's?

Lotti

An adult dark. I don't have to engage my brain and I can.

There's a lot of pretty ********* doing crime. Yeah, and.

Lotti

I think I don't know, I was thinking.

What's not to love?

Lotti

About this feeling.

Lotti

About that in preparation for this episode and.

Lotti

You might have to hear me out because like I was trying to think before before.

Lotti

Like really realistically, before twilight, before boy Wizard books and really, actually before it actually proves more twilight than.

Lotti

Boy Wizard books. Because the boy Wizard books were global phenomena, I've grown with that in school. Everyone wanted went and watched the films and I think Twilight was.

Lotti

One of the first series where you had this fan base and the Internet, and also like catapulted young adult fiction aimed at like women at girls.

I'm glad.

Lotti

You know teenage girls into the limelight and off the back of that he had Hunger Games and that adaptation your divergent series and that adaptation.

Yeah, it's like they suddenly realise they could make money out of adapting these things and suddenly we have so many.

More of them.

Than we used to.

Lotti

Yeah, it's kind of like when I I was thinking about it because you know, I read Twilight whenever the score. I've got the whole back edition somewhere in a loft because for everybody, read.

Lotti

It and it yeah.

Speaker 2

What was it?

Lotti

Bash at so freaking lewdly. Was it good? No. However, did everyone read it? Yes, did everyone go watch the films?

Lotti

Yes, like you know.

Eli

What that reminds me of is one of the things that I've noticed that big fandoms, the source material, doesn't have to be good.

Hope yeah.

Eli

It just has to make your brain go broader.

You know, yeah, like I mean supernatural is a.

Prime example of that.

Eli

Exactly right, the potential is actually far more interesting than the thing itself. Being good like you don't have a huge like amount of fanfiction written for Avatar Last airbender, because the show it does.

Lotti

Need it no, but so is I tell you.

I have trawled through that and there is actually quite a fair.

There is a fair bit of it.

Eli

I mean, it's all like stuff that's like after the end. Like what do they do next and more so than it is like.

Yeah, or like modern day humans or yeah.

Eli

Fixing things.

Lotti

I'm fixing the plot.

I tell you what my favourite, my favourite.

Of all of them.

And I'm not as a role.

There's not. There's not much in the Avatar fandom that I'm super into, but like, I mean, I enjoy it when it comes around. But it's not one of my like big I will go.

Actively looking for it. I will put this link.

In the reference post, but.

I fix it where Zuko goes over the side at the end of season one and gets picked up by soccer and katara's dad and basically gets adopted and that changes the whole like that's really good.

Eli

Oh yeah, yeah.

Eli

Change something I love for like for want of a nail reimaginings thinking actually of fandoms that you really like me Oh yeah things that are actually also adaptations.

Right, yeah I wanted to talk about that because like so, one of the questions I was going to ask you is that is there anywhere where you where you've seen the adaptation and you've read the book and you actually.

Prefer the adaptation.

'cause I feel like my gut instinct is usually that I'm always going to prefer the book and the adaptation will be good or it'll be.

Bad, but.

Like that won't you know like it's it's?

The Adaptation's almost always kind of secondary to me, but the untamed is actually one of the places where I am.

Like these are different entities and they both deserve to exist and I kind of I enjoyed the adaptation more, but I think the book is actually a better piece of work.

So that's that's kind of, yeah.

Eli

Interesting, I'm struggling to think of an example because all of the adaptations I really like have solid source material.

Lotti

Umm yeah, and to be honest like I'm trying to think like really like realistically the only.

Eli

Home yes.

Lotti

The adaptation where I've been that invested in the source material has been wheel of time, like Harry, like Harry Potter Boy Wizard Books.

Lotti

I would see that I read them, but I want to be honest. If you talk to me. If you went time travel back to like 14 year old Lottie I I tell you they were trash books because they're not as good as word of time and everyone like Oh my God.

Lotti

Doesn't have written.

Lotti

Like that, no, it's not like it's not it you.

Know it's it's a thing, but it's not awful.

Hyper fixated.

Lotti

And then, like and then.

Lotti

Like even like said twilight adaptations, I didn't really give it apart from the fact that like I was just annoyed at those books in general because they had so much potential and it went away.

Lotti

For dumb ask like give me Rosaline back story give me Allison back story gimmick. Yeah Dad book, I tell you what they've got the DCTV problem right?

Give me that please.

Where like so? I don't know if any of you guys ever watched arrow but like they had this problem and like and that whole universe TV universe kinda had that problem for a while where they would set up they'd be like.

Oh, here's this male hero from the comics and then.

He would be.

The most milquetoast boring pieces you ever saw in your life and every single secondary character was more interesting and like.

Please just kill off Oliver, Queen or whoever and let me spend time with like Felicity Smoak and all of these other people. Yeah, and twilights very like that.

Eli

Didn't like everybody involved in the making of that show also.

Eli

Hate they made it quite.

Eli

Isn't that where that that that meme with the tombstone comes from possibly?

Like I heard a vicious.

Lotti

Rumour about that, but yeah.

Speaker 2

I'm like I, I think.

Lotti

That's kind of the thing with especially like fan fiction where.

Lotti

It all the time. It's people like writing. I mean I, I don't right? I'm I'm. It's it's. It's not my cup of tea.

Lotti

I'm not great at it, but like when I like when I you know you go and look at some of these things and you've like people who are fixing the pothole in XY, zed book or oh AU, or or whatever they're doing. And they've got hundreds of thousands of words.

Lotti

Of fixing your problem and that I mean, to be honest, that's what personal so much about Sherlock was. You had so much good fanfic.

Speaker 2

Yeah, you use none.

Of it, I mean, to be fair, they can't copyright wise, they can't.

Speaker 2

I mean.

You know they're not.

Lotti

Going to use it, but it's kind.

Lotti

Of like you had the disdain that.

Eli

They had for.

It it's just. It's like these most of these writers are.

Better than you.

Speaker 2

And also how can you?

Right?

Lotti

Disdain something, there's like. Let's be honest. Free advertising like the whole thing is, is free advertising. It's free.

Speaker 2

Gaming and it. Well, it's also like.

It's matter of your work. It is. It is a narrative way of people looking at your work and going.

What's this about really? When you get right down?

To it, you know.

Lotti

And I love that. I would love like.

Eli

In terms of like my job and the kind of work.

Eli

That I or like.

Eli

Imagine being able to understand your audience. Imagine your audience talking back to you like that. That's so valuable. That's so cool. That is some. I mean, some of the like the most interesting conversations I've had on the Internet.

And I don't have many, so like this is a low bar maybe, but like shush, I'm shy.

Uhm, like people commenting people who leave essay length. Comments on your fanfic and then you end up yelling with them back and forth about like why you did this thing or I didn't realise anybody was going to notice that. Or you know like just really like.

It's it, it helps you with.

The whole like 'cause.

The the work is smarter than.

You are so.

Yeah, and everybody who reads it bring something. It creates a new story in their brain. You know how is that?

Lotti

Not cool, and it's likely.

Lotti

That it's like if you are an aspiring author.

Lotti

I mean this. I know this is a bit of it. If you're an aspiring author and you're writing, you're writing stories, you're crafting your narrative.

Lotti

And you're probably factually practising with these characters already.

Speaker 2

No, it's just free feedback, like yeah, how how can anybody like a just that's that's.

Lotti

What boggles my mind like?

Lotti

You know, if you if you you took, you know like for example like oh what's a bond one.

OWQ yeah.

Lotti

Subcut that's not there. We go and love.

That eat it up with a spoon if you.

Lotti

If you've seen the most like the most recent film, I feel like somebody had gone OK. We need a coffee.

Lotti

Au figthing, we need queue at home like being holy and I feel like somebody gone. You know what? It's it's. It's not fanservice but it's kind of going.

Lotti

We see.

Lotti

You know, and it's kind of.

Lotti

I don't know it's.

Lotti

I I can't see how people like I can get it if it's like I find IRL fat that that that I find a bit too much.

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

Lotti

I think it's real people.

Lotti

I'm like, yeah, that bituin

Lotti

Yeah, but like yeah, if you're just taking characters from books.

Eli

It's not my cup of tea.

Lotti

Or films, or TV or whatever.

Lotti

And you're just transforming them into a new story.

Lotti

To read like it's suppose, I consider that an adaptation because it's just basically taking it forward like.

Lotti

There's so many.

Lotti

Yeah yeah, actual published books where it's oh, it's the estate of some writer has allowed them to take these characters forward.

Eli

Yeah, I have a facetious answer to the question of is there an adaptation that you like more than the original and?

Eli

I would like to take a minute to talk to you all about the masterpiece that is the 2000.

Eli

Four film Troy

Speaker 2

Oh boy OK yes.

Speaker 2

I would.

Eli

Always watch over reading the actual Iliad.

Ha ha ha ha ha.

Lotti

Yes, I don't think I.

Lotti

Mean I don't think I'm ever gonna.

Right?

Lotti

Feed the Iliad, although I.

Lotti

Have because I started listening to son.

Lotti

Of Achilles for a future episode.

Lotti

And I've I've been going down the Wikipedia rabbit hole on like what the hell is going on because I've played way too much Assassin's Creed Odyssey and so I'm like, oh, I really gotta tell him who is that person I met in the game and so.

Eli

Lucky you have got to watch Troy. It is. It's in with it.

Lotti

I have watched I I love I.

Lotti

I mean I haven't watched in ages. I have watched it, maybe I think because I had like a crush on Orlando Bloom at that point or whatever, but like.

Fair enough.

Lotti

Yeah, that's probably the reason I watched.

Fair enough.

Speaker 2

This we've all been there.

Lotti

Second, yeah, it's kind of yeah it. I'm never going to read.

Speaker 2

Hold on.

Eli

The Iliad, yeah. I I did. I read it in Greece.

Eli

As well while.

Eli

I was.

Eli

On holiday like God once, yeah, yeah it was.

My colleague.

Eli

The book I took with me to be fair, I've read it and did not put it down, but I would not be.

Eli

Done yeah fast yeah?

Lotti

You know it's a one and done job, but you know if I've done it once but bucket.

Lotti

List ticked off that does.

Eli

I kind of want to go and watch Troy now.

We have that big screen we can.

Eli

We do, we do, we do?

You know you.

Can make make your dreams happen it.

Lotti

Will just happen.

Lotti

Dream big, dream big.

He's thinking about.

The the untamed and the grandmaster of demonic cultivation, which it's based on. I think that's a really that's a really interesting one for me, 'cause I feel about it. Kind of similarly to how I feel about fanfic in the.

Both of them enrich my experience of the other in a way that means that I am just so grateful that they both exist.

You know, like if I'd read the book first, I don't think I would have watched the show because the book is because it's not censored because it's on the Internet and the gay, the gay Israel and there.

One of the things the book is talking about very explicitly is like how homophobic a society is that they live in, and it's really. It makes for really hard reading.

In that in that sense, because the internalised homophobia, like way wish, and internalised homophobia, is just.

And like the homophobia of the society so and you're just kind of, you're just breathing it constantly and it's really.

It's really hard. I think it's. I think it's really well written. I think the plot is hands down much, much better. The book is just so much better constructed than the TV show.

And like some of that is because you know ghosts are UN communist, so they had to change the.

Plot a bit.

And and like also also the.

Homosexuals are UN communists, so we've got to like take that out of it.

Eli

Also, Kuzui machine is more morally ambiguous. Yeah, the book is a lot more like where you wish and does something, but whereas the TV show is like he's my poor little man, he's not my pull it.

Eli

On the AMA he is like he is a precious being. You can't do anything wrong, Jim.

Eli

Hung out with the little meow meow.

But yeah, that's another bit we should do. Actually, who is bravo and who is your poor little meow meow?

Eli

Oh my gosh.

Anyway, yeah, if I'd read the book first, I wouldn't have watched the show because I found it really hard in a way that I think it's supposed to be, and I.

Eli

But you wouldn't go back for more, you know.

I wouldn't necessarily. I mean, now I know which bits to skip, because the yes, the sex is terrible. Speaking of as we were earlier with the terrible sex writing.

But then this.

Is another one where like I don't know how much of that is lost in translation. I don't know, I don't know.

But anyway, yeah, so that's a really interesting one. The other thing in that vein, I wanted to talk about was.

Heaven officials blessing.

Because that's when I read the book 1st and then I watched the animated and the animated series actually helped clear up for me like.

Lotti

What the hell was happening?

I really enjoy.

Heaven officials blessing. I think if you're gonna read any mix that is where I would suggest you start.

'cause I think it's the most polished. It doesn't have any of the really unpleasant bad sex dubcon kind of the stuff that's really difficult to kind of read about. You know it doesn't have any of that, really.

And the romance is just so soft. The romance is so soft and good. And like neither of the main characters are conflicted about.

It at all really.

They're just like I vibe with this. This is good. We're having a good soft time, so yeah, that was my recommendation.

Read that one for us, but yeah, it there's a lot going on and having the adaptation there to kind of like.

Rewatch and be like, oh that's who everybody is. Oh, that's how that plot plays out.

Eli

That's why I got into Game of Thrones, was I?

Eli

Yeah, I watched the first season of Game of Thrones in order to have faces to put to the names.

Eli

When I read the book then I went away and read all the books that were out and then went back to the show.

Eli

And then you know, regret, regret.

I use a bit like like what Lottie was saying earlier about the audio. Visual stuff is that like, yeah, I think sometimes with something complicated.

It's a lot easier to get your head around if you already know what everybody looks like and you kind of you get the broad strokes of. I mean, I think that's an advantage of adaptations actually, is that?

I don't think you can simplify without dumbing down because of the influence that the individual actors have and the way that the the world building can be embodied.

That's not really the word, but like the world building is literal. You have built it. Yeah, you have designed for high protein. If your daughter and.

And like you so you can make it easier to digest without losing. Like you know some nuance. You're going to lose and that will take me on to my next question. But like it makes it easier without necessarily.

Be yeah, making it stupid, which is yeah, I really appreciate for complicated things.

Yeah, I was going to say do you guys think there's anything you've ever you've read that you think is unadaptable like what makes an unadaptable work?

Eli

Honestly, maybe the simoleon because it's it's like a history and it's it's so broad in scope you're not really following specific characters necessary.

OK.

Eli

We're following like dynasties.

Eli

And so some of the like the like, the world building and the the greater scope, this this, this, this sort of broader scope, like epic narrative, that he's telling is like the history of this.

Eli

It would be really hard to bring some of that down to a personal level. I think that you would need in order to engage with it.

Visually, yeah, that makes sense.

Eli

You know you you.

Eli

Don't you don't want to watch something.

Eli

That basically looks like someone playing safe.

Eli

Yeah, but there are bits of it that you could do for sure and I.

Eli

Think that's why Amazon is going up?

Lotti

To be honest.

Lotti

I think like maybe wine sounds webkinz.

Lotti

Just because it's such a big, it's absolute beast of a book.

Lotti

I mean to be.

Lotti

Honest, before we left I was being adaptated I still think.

Lotti

That is a.

Lotti

A really difficult novel to adapt or series of books to adapt.

Lotti

Because there's so much in it and there's so much that for me, passing like how dare they miss this tiny little reference ship?

Yeah, yeah.

Lotti

You know they cut that outcry, but it is adaptable in the sense of it's very real. It doesn't need that much CGI, whereas wave claims it is not only huge scope.

Speaker 2

It you need.

Lotti

Tonnes of CGI and the only way you do it.

Lotti

Properly is if you had a TV show with a lot of money thrown at it. And to be honest, even.

Lotti

Then they probably.

Lotti

Pick it up.

Lotti

So like yeah, I think yeah, I think maybe wave cleans because it also probably wouldn't do justice in my mind. I mean maybe like 20-30 years down the line and I can have kids I can't.

Lotti

Into the professional version or whatever, or like you know, import it into your brain or where they've got when.

Lotti

I'm like 70, but like you know up to.

That it's me, boy. The adaptation of Real Kings talking to you from inside your brain.

Lotti

Like yourself in and watch it, you know however you want to see.

Lotti

It so this.

Is really interesting 'cause like my whenever I think about things being unadaptable, the thing that always brings to my mind is actually word play usually. And I mean that in the in the.

Widest possible sense of.

Books where you can tell how much the author loves language. OK, yeah Pratchett, I think is really hard to adapt.

For that reason, yes, yeah, I think, and I I'm nothing I've seen has convinced me that anybody done it properly. Yet even good omens. I don't think has has quite hit the spot for me. It doesn't.

Here, huh?

Eli

Like it doesn't preserve a lot of the practise of the book.

Eli

It preserves that.

Eli

Yeah, it it preserves the sort of the the humanism, definitely. But not the wit necessarily.

Yeah yeah yeah. And I think so. I think those are really hard to do because so much of it is.

It's in the word it over.

Its form in a way that, like I think, actually Douglas Adams, is another one.

Eli

That was the other one I was thinking of, like I do really enjoy both the TV I haven't listened to the radio adaptation, but the the movie with Martin Freeman.

Eli

Unfortunately, yeah, and but there's also a really good TV series and I do it. I enjoy both of those. I think they're really good, but they're not as good as.

The books, yeah, whereas I haven't.

I haven't been. I haven't spent that much time on Hitchhiker's Guide.

Made adaptations but I have tried most of the Dirk Gently's that are available.

Eli

Of course yes.

And I have to say, the Netflix one is the only one that comes close, even though it is not the same at all.

So like every time I've tried to watch like the BBC ones I've just got, I'm bored. I don't care about this. This isn't fun in the way that I was expecting it to be.

And I think the only the Netflix adaptation, while completely avoiding the plots and a lot of the set.

Up and like it's.

The premise is completely different.

But yeah, like I think it captures the sheared, the riotous Glee of Douglas Adams, in a way that.

I don't think any other adaptation that I've seen.

Lotti

See, I did. I didn't I I didn't like the Netflix adaptation for that reason that I I I like the the the bonkers plot of the book. Like I I but.

Speaker 2

I really.

No, I I.

Lotti

I tell you what I was thinking actually is a hitchhiker's guide to the Galaxy. The film adaptation from that from.

Lotti

Like 2004 I think.

Lotti

That did a good job of of, like yeah, translating that book to screen 'cause that book is bonkers. But it did.

Lotti

I don't know I remember.

What you know you like?

That's that's fair enough, but yeah, it's just one again where I'm like. I thought the film was fine. It's like I didn't get that same.

Feeling that, yeah, that feeling was right.

Eli

Yeah, it didn't capture one of the things I love most about.

The book yeah exactly, and I think that's that is the thing I think the Netflix did was that it.

Was chaotic and it was colourful.

Lotti

Really give another go.

And it was weird, and I had no idea what was going on for half of it, and we are going to just throw in some random time travel that we don't.

Explain until the very last minute.

Yeah, you know. And that that felt closer spiritually to me to what I loved about the books than any of the like.

Lotti

OK, yeah.

We're vaguely trying to follow the actual plot stuff.

Yeah, you know.

There's another, this is another one where I'm like.

Like the two, the two things are completely different, but I am so glad they both exist. Yeah yeah, you know. Even if the relationship between them is tenuous.

Lotti

So that that is fair. That is completely fair.

Eli

I'm wondering about which Austen is it that we did recently where it's like. Oh unfortunately, she couldn't be a Gothic heroine because her mother.

Eli

Was still alive.

Mosang, Abby.

Eli

Yeah, I wonder if adaptations find it really hard to do to capture that part of the book where Austin is so clearly stated saying something, but it's within like the meta, it's it's.

Lotti

Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah, between characters.

It's not, it's not how. How do you do the looks into camera like they're on the office without having the authors.

So that actually brings me to an adaptation that I never finished, but I actually think does justice to another thing that I would have said was an adapter.

Eli

I think I know what you're going to say.

Or is the series of unfortunate events the Netflix series of unfortunate events because the way they got round, that is by having Lemony Snicket walk in and out.

And the rate.

Lotti

Yeah, yeah, and that.

Means you get to keep so much of what made the books because the books were a revelation to me as a kid. Like you, you read something in years.

I feel like.

Most most things.

People have most writers have a style.

Yeah yeah, but like a lot of the time it's not enough like you kinda know, but it's like it's not a massive like ping on your radar.

Or this is definitely so, and so only so and so could have.

Written this yeah.

Or, you know, this is the specific.

So 'cause, like Daniel handlers written a bunch of other stuff that isn't, doesn't feel like a series of unfortunate events at all and.

And like it was the first time I'd read something where I went, somebody making a .0 like you can do that you know this this.

It was craft in a way that was like big and in your face and unique at the time. Like nobody wrote like that in my experience and it was, it was.

Yeah, it was a game changer and then to have that adapted and somebody managed to capture the sort of like the aspect of it. Also, the way it's almost yeah, the fact that it's like.

This weird compiled text, where the author is a character and that that character that the author doesn't exist. The author that's the character doesn't exist, but the there is somebody behind that, just the levels of metre and the way it's talking.

About perspective, you know, and I feel like the Netflix or the way the Netflix adaptation did it is maybe the only way you could even come close to getting that across in a visual medium.

Uhm, yeah.

I tell you what I think the Northanger Abbey has to be a sitcom. If you do it, you have to go bonkers to Yonkers, you have to go full.

Lotti

Haha yeah yeah.

On like like what's his face to Larmer in Emperor's new Groove. Like pausing things to scribble on the screen. You need that like.

Speaker 2

Oh my yes.

But you need at least a sarcastic.

Lotti

Voice over, you know what it needs to.

Date me.

Eli

It needs the Enola Holmes treatment.

Speaker 2

Yeah, Oh my God.

Yes, absolutely. Like I love. I love that film so much.

Lotti

That was such an enjoyable film, like again, Sonia.

Eli

Been out and you can't really call it a homes adaptation, it's it's entirely its own thing. Using the homes IP it.

Is an adaptation of a book, so it's just not.

Yeah, it's it's the. The books are a thing, but which I've never actually read.

Lotti

I think they're for like young children, though they're like for, right, so?

They're younger than I think. Even the film is, I think.

Lotti

Yeah, younger young adult why? Why?

Twins, teenagers, teenagers.

Lotti

We are young adults.

The accursed that's not a portmanteau, is it? But Kearsage age, like I was thinking of the word. But you're right, the age is also cursed.

Lotti

I mean, that's just me reflecting back on that time.

Yeah, I'm going to have a last question in there. I think we're going to need to wrap up for like so yeah, do you guys have any like unpopular adaptation opinions like opinions that would get you chucked out of the fandom or that would start massive discourse. Like anything that people love that you hate or.

Eli

Or vice versa, depends on the fandom, right?

Lotti

OK, I mean the only the the only thing I can think of that is of popular opinion right now. So written. Yes I enjoyed it up to about.

Lotti

Assiri episode, whichever it is where it.

Lotti

Was just basically like.

Lotti

Sexy and after sexy and I was like we don't I I didn't want this. I wanted diverse Regency coffee shop au fair, yeah, pretty dresses.

I tell you what thinking about unadaptable things I actually think.

****** fiction, and specifically fiction that has a lot like the point, is the point in square scare quotes is the sex.

I think actually that maybe doesn't adapt very well, and maybe this is just me being massively Demi about it, but like if if I don't already know what's going on in people heads like characterwise about that stuff.

I don't. I'm not that interested. You know it's just like if you. If you haven't invoked emotionally invested in me in it. If I'm not in somebody head for that, all I'm seeing is how inherently ridiculous sex is.

You know, like so, it's just like.

This I'm not getting anything out of this, it's.

Just awkward, you know.

Eli

Oh, I have an unpopular adaptation opinion and this is. This is kind of a stretch because I'm going to talk about the Pirates of Caribbean movies and there are an.

Eli

Adaptation there an adaptation of a theme park ride.

Yep, strictly speaking.

Lotti

Yeah exactly yeah.

Eli

My unpopular opinion is that I like the sad movie.

Actually I.

Lotti

Like the third movie, I said maybe.

Eli

Most people don't like the third movie. I like, not the full. There's no 4th movie Lottie, there's no.

Eli

They stopped at three.

Lotti

Anything past me? I like the fact.

Lotti

That the third member had a great.

Lotti

Soundtrack. It was a gorgeous xquisite soundtrack.

Lotti

Yeah, 'cause and we.

Lotti

Lost it like I.

Think once you get past how just just ignore the fact that everybody betraying each other two seconds. The actual culmination of the character stuff. Yeah, it's really good. I think the second film.

Eli

If anything, let's dance.

Is the weakest.

Eli

But yes, I think the second film is the biggest as well.

Yeah, well you.

You have to say which one because nothing happens like it's it's. It's very forget like it's fun.

Yeah, it's very forgettable in a way that.

Lotti

Yeah, it's 520.

I don't there's.

Eli

A lot of good Norrington content in.

Eli

It OK that is true size.

Goodnight, chase.

Eli

And I do.

Eli

I do love my boy, Norrington, but yeah, yeah, it's I. I think that's like a common thing with second movies, right?

Eli

Yeah, especially they know it's going to be a trilogy because you've got obviously the you know the your first act and your annual asked.

Eli

Have a lot of structure that is just built into the the fact that they are the first and last act and the 2nd it's like.

Eli

OK, well we kind of just had to get from A.

Eli

To B, how do you make that interesting, yeah.

No, I think what I think doesn't do that is original trilogy Star Wars. I think Empire Strikes Back is one of the strongest.

Actually, and I think that's a really interesting. But yeah, it's rare. You're right, I'd like to think I'm thinking about everything lyriel is maybe the only other place where I've I've read a second book and didn't just feel like it was filler for the finale.

Yeah, in a trilogy actually. Actually I'm saying that I think original Artemis fowl. The first three. That's also a very good trilogy. We gotta.

Yeah, yeah.

Eli

Do the second one of those sold.

We do, yeah, I think.

It's so much fun. It's like the that the original trilogy of those is like it's a perfect, complete what each book is a perfect discrete unit, and the three years a whole make for a really satisfying.

Sad, but you know I enjoyed some stuff that happened in the books afterwards. As much as I read of them, but it never again for me.

Had that sense of like this is a unit that has been perfectly constructed to be the thing that it is.

Eli

We're nearly at an hour on.

Eli

This episode let's wrap this.

Up, let's wrap this up. OK, so obviously we don't have anybody that we want to fight unless it's maybe the Game of Thrones guys.

Oh like oh man, we we're gonna we're gonna we're gonna garbage this this thing so that we can get on Star Wars quicker and then we garbaged it so hard that they didn't give U.S. star wars like yeah LOL.

Get sun Lord.

Eli

Couldn't happen to a more deserving.

Eli

Now dude, do you?

Think we have time to like.

Do what else are you guys reading? 'cause that's the thing I'm always interested to hear. What am I reading quick?

Consuming or what crafts have you completed in?

Lotti

So I've started watching.

Lotti

The Expanse, and that's a good book adaptation on Amazon Prime, which I'm very much enjoying.

Lotti

Yeah, and I am still continuing to listen to God's guards, which is like my pick me up when.

Lotti

I just need to pick me up, yeah?

Nice right? It's good for.

Lotti

That that's it, and I I started listening to some of.

Lotti

Achilles, but I already said that earlier.

Eli

I am I am beset by all of the things that are making my life extremely.

Eli

Busy over the next.

Eli

Uhm, so I have. I have been reading for the podcast and I have been watching YouTube to fall asleep too. That's nice.

As I've been splitting my time between so every now and again I fall back into my Star Wars hyperfixation and the Obi Wan trailer came out.

So I have been rewatching I watch bad batch. I've rewatched rebels. I am most of the way through a reread of reentry, which is this like Epic time travel? Semi fix it. Legends based Star Wars.

Fanfic series that is just like off the charts, amazing.

It's one of those ones where you're like you. They walk in there with a pairing and you're like you can't convince me to ship.

This and then they do, and you're like. Thank you for this actually and and I'm reading as a as a like get your brain off the screens.

Eli

And then they do.

And also maybe it consumes something that.

Isn't Star Wars?

Please God, I'm begging you. I am reading the.

The price of salt and fortune.

Which is extremely good it is.

It's hitting my kind of I guess I don't know if you could call it like 'cause the authors, Vietnamese American, I think.

And then the the set up of the book.

Is more Imperial China?

You know that that kind of like it's doing a lot of cool things with structure and storytelling.

And like I'm enjoying it a lot and it's got the thing the that how to lose the time. No, this is how you lose.

The time War had of being.

Like the chapters are so like self contained that you can just be like I will read one before bed and this will be my good good screen break and then I'll need the break between them to like fully absorb everything cool about that chapter. You know it's very cool anyway. Yes, I heartily recommend it.

Eli

Ah Yep.

All that's great.

Nice yeah.

Speaker 2

Yeah we are we.

Lotti

You have.

Lotti

To let it go.

Are over and now we have to.

Lotti

Really, we need to wrap up. We need to wrap it up, wrap it up, wrap it up. But yeah, thank you.

Wrap it up super fast.

Lotti

Thanks so much for listening. Remember to follow us on your podcast platform.

Lotti

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Lotti

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Lotti

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Lotti

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Lotti

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Lotti

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Lotti

See you next time, bye.