The Ultimate Sales Machine with Amanda Holmes

Getting the right sales strategy in place is more important than ever. On this episode, I talk to Amanda Holmes, CEO at Chet Holmes and daughter of the author of The Ultimate Sales Machine. A framework used by thousands of businesses around the world to double their business.    https://chetholmes.com/ch4/

Transcript

 We're most likely in a recession or potentially going into a recession, depending on who you ask or where you ask. And, sales become a little bit trickier. , business doesn't just flow in automatically. So we need better tools, we need better frameworks, we need better systems to help invite customers into a story that, ends with them buying from us.

Hopefully, if they're the right fit. On today's episode, I get to interview somebody who's gonna give us some strategies for that, specifically Amanda. Is, the co-author of the latest version of the Ultimate Sales Machine, originally written by her father, Chet Holmes, who, they have helped their organizations, helped thousands of companies all around the world double, their sales and more, some really, incredible tips and strategies that we're gonna go through.

And we're gonna talk about things that I. In relationship to that was not just how do we make money, but how do we do it while also, staying true to who we are, our values and our purpose. Without any further ado, here's my conversation with Amanda. Hey, Amanda. Welcome to the show. Thank you so much for having me, Jay.

So I'm super excited to have you because, , you come highly recommended from one of our team members here at the agency. She saw you speak at Inbound, this year in Boston, which is a beautiful city. And , she said you were amazing, super helpful, great ideas, and I thought she said, you have to have her on the show.

And I said, great. Wonderful. So thanks for. Absolutely happy to be. So you help a lot of people with all kinds of ideas, framework strategies around sales. And sales is a struggle for people. Many people start a business because they're a, a tact, a tactician, a, a a a, a, a doer of things, a maker, a creator, and then maybe haven't thought about how to sell well.

And then some people that are listening may actually be at larger companies where they have sales teams. And so, a lot of folks in the next. I don't know, six to 12 months are gonna probably encounter some, economic resistance, let's say. And so I'd love to just kick us right into what are some thoughts that you have that you share with people that help them improve their sales game?

Because it's gonna become extremely important for business owners and entrepreneurs. Well, let me ask you a question, Jay. What percentage of companies do you think make it to a million in annual sales? , it's very small. I forgot the percentage. I do know this answer, but I forgot it. It's small though. If you had to guess.

I think it's like 5%. Something like that. Ding, ding, ding. I wish I had a gift. I would  a prize. Yes. 95% of businesses never make it to a million in annual sales of that.  0.08% make it to 5 million. Mm-hmm.  of that 1.8%, or sorry, 1.5%, make it to 10 million and 0.004%. Make it to a hundred million and beyond.

Now I'll take you back to 1967. There were two companies that were started on the same block. One was a mom and pop, hamburger joint. They put all their love into their burgers, and another one was McDonald. . Now we go back, right? 50 years later, and one is the largest grossing revenue generating hamburger joint in the world, and the other one is still a mom and pop shop with one location.

And we look at entrepreneurs and we think, oh, it has to be about my product or service that's gonna make the difference between getting from a million to five, from five to 10, from 10 to a hundred million and beyond. But when we look at that example of McDonald's, do you think McDonald's has a superior burger?

Probably not , right? It's the mom and pop shop. The thing that's missing are the skills it takes to grow the business and skills can be developed. So my father was in, was famous for saying, mastery isn't about doing 4,000 different things. It's about doing 12 things 4,000 times. We have assisted now a quarter million businesses worldwide teaching them these 12 core competencies on how to double sales.

My father wrote, One of the most recommended sales books of all time. It's called The Ultimate Sales Machine, and every chapter is a different core competency on how to double sales. So the first thing I have to say for everybody that's listening is the good news is with this economic turn, it's not about shiny object syndrome.

You don't have to look for 50 million different ways. Let's just hone in. Key areas of where you need to grow. And many times out of the 12, it's really just one core competency that you need to master and that will make all the difference. I'm gonna pause here. Anything you wanna say about that? No, I think it's great.

I think that when you, I always say that there's four key areas of business, people, product, process, and, promotion. And it's, but it's the promotion side, it's the sales engine where I think a lot of people get stuck because they get obsessed with, we've got the best product that there is. . And I'm like, well, that's great, but if nobody knows about it or they're not sufficiently disturbed to buy it, I always say prospects are on a spectr.

They either don't know they have a problem, they know they have a problem, but they're not sufficiently disturbed to take action or they know they have a problem and they're sufficiently disturbed to take action. And I think, you know, that's the struggle that a lot of people have is we focus a lot on the messaging.

and not as much on the sales side. So I'd love to, I know we don't have time to unpack all 12, but maybe we could dig into a couple of those competencies. Absolutely. And to help people kind of get a glimpse of what's in the book. I love that. , we do a lot of messaging too. I would love to share notes. We should discuss that at another time or that,

So, when we think of. , on average it takes five to, I'm sorry, eight to 12 contacts before we actually get an appointment today, eight to 12. And yet, , only 50% of sales reps actually follow up after three f. Follow ups and 90% don't follow up after five. So a very small percentage are actually getting the results that you need to succeed in sales today.

, and it's all that fortune is in the follow up, right? But the problem is then, 91% of our prospects feel that salespeople are too pushy today. Mm-hmm. , they're just, and it's because of Amazon, right? Amazon has taught us to go on the internet to look at customer views, and that's how we decide to buy. So we've built up this strong hatred from sales reps and that traditional commission breast salesperson is just dead today.

So we have to ask ourselves. How can we come to a prospect with a way where we are the bright spot in their day, where we are providing so much value that they see, wow, I haven't even exchanged my credit card yet with this person and they have solved my issues. They've talked to me about the exact pains that I'm having.

Right? So it's critical to shift that tactical salesperson that's just, well, you buy my product. Here's my product, here's my product, here's my product. , I. , salespeople are converting seven times more prospects from social than in any other source. Mm-hmm. , because it's such a great place. I, I don't know how many of your, the people that watch your program or your podcast, do much social selling.

Do you think they do? , you know, I don't know, but I, I, my uncle always told me, , the best way to do the best way to grow business in nevermind of customers is just do a great job for somebody to ask 'em to tell somebody else. And so referrals have always worked, but people, here's what happens to us in the marketing side.

PE people come to us and they go, well, JR. Best referral or our best business comes from referrals. And I'm like, that's great, but how much. Else are you leaving on the table? , I love that you talked about the follow up thing because I always tell people that there's two primary reasons that salespeople don't close deals.

Nber one, they just don't ask for the sale. Mm-hmm. Like they have a nice lunch and we had a nice time and we made friends and it's all great, but never actually asked you to buy from me. And nber two is they don't follow up. And like that's, I just didn't have the nbers behind it. So now I can steal those nbers and I'll credit to you at some point.

You know, oh no, you're, there's, it's open market and, and Fortune is in the follow up. What a great line that is. Like, that's so true. But it's, but, but we're, I think that so many people are, so. Like failure averse, which is not good in sales cause there's more failure than there is success. , a lot of times you're gonna get a lot more nos than you do yeses.

, that they're just not willing to. Keep asking, but, but you talked about like this idea of social selling or you know, not, not selling in a way that's not making somebody be like, oh my gosh, they're just trying to like push their product down my throat. So what are some things that you teach people that are valuable in that space?

Yes, I can teach that. Let me tell a story first and then I'll tie it back to that. How about that? Sure. Love story. So , so my father got his big break working for a billionaire by the name of Charlie Munger. Are you familiar with him? I've heard the. Co-chairman of Berkshire Hathaway, so, business partners to Warren Buffet.

Okay? Yes. So he, so when he doubled the sales for Charlie for in nine different companies, all within 12 to 15 months, and several of them multiple years consecutively, he realized he had a system for doubling sales. And the way that it went is he was given a list of 2200 potential prospects. And they said, okay, go cold.

Call these 2200. And he looked at the list, he went, that's a lot of people. So when he analyzed the list, he realized that 95% of the market was purchased by only 167 of those 2200. Hmm. So he created a Dream a hundred. Well, we call it a Dream 100 now, but a Dream hundred and 67 campaign where every week he would do something that would provide value for these 167 at that time.

He was, this was pre the internet, so he was sending a direct mail piece, something that was educational, something that was clever and funny. Then he'd follow up with a phone call. Then he'd follow up with a fax, and then he'd do it again. And every single week, those 167 got either a phone call, a fax, a direct mail piece, or an email, and this kept going on.

So for four months, they got not one. So the office started to talk like, who is this sales expert? And he can't even close a barn door, right? , there's no sales coming in. But they were working on the biggest clients possible. In the sixth month, he closed the largest contract that the industry had ever seen.

He brought Xerox into the fold, and after that, double sales over and over and over again. So this concept of the Dream 100, my fa, have you ever heard of the dream one? I have actually, somebody mentioned it the other day at an event that I was at, and I was like, why don't we have that? And so like the idea, like finding a hundred new customers, just like your very best buyers, like yes.

That I, I had heard it before. We just haven't done it. And I, that's one of those things, I think when people listen to something like this, they, oh, that's a good idea. Go do it. Like it's on literally on my to-do list right now to do this. So it's ironic that we're talking. That is funny. So my father invented it and many people have shepherded it since like, Russell Brunson, are you familiar with Russell Brunson?

Yeah. Yeah. ClickFunnels. So Russell was a client of ours. He learned Dream 100 from my father, and that's what assisted him to grow to a hundred million in four years. Wow. He said one of the key strategies that he used was the Ultimate, was the Dream 100 and it, it's all throughout the book. Actually, I just did the new edition.

I don't know if you knew that. Yes, I saw it. I have it actually, so, oh, awesome. Okay. So what I added to it was how can Dream 100 be adapted for social? Now because my father didn't have the internet, that's why he did direct mail. That's why he did cold calling. So I use this example of, I had. A potential client that had reached out for our services before and I happened to sit next to him at a yacht party and I went, oh great.

This guy, he's gonna, I have to win his sale. And I'm sure like commission breath was just oozing out of my mouth because chin breath, that's so good. I wanted it so bad. I wanted it so bad. And he just cold shouldered me the whole entire evening and we're stuck on a boat. Like he couldn't go anywhere.

Right? So I was like, how do I win this guy's attention? Or how do I win his sail? So we ended up, I did, a thing that I called a signature selfie, which is anytime you've met somebody since 80% of leads have never followed up on, according to Salesforce, I do this fun thing where I say, oh, you know, it was so nice to meet you Jay.

Let's do something fun, shall we here? Look up and smile. H? Smile file. Okay. And I'll text it to you. So what I would do in person, oh my God, this is hysterical. , . Normally I would get your phone nber, but I don't have to do it on, in front of, everybody . , but normally I do it from stage and I do it one-on one in, in networking events.

And I did it with this dream client of mine. So I got his phone nber and then I asked, okay, where do you spend majority of your time online? Where do you spend it most? Is it LinkedIn? Is it Twitter? Is it Instagram? Right? Because we spend our time everywhere and each person has a little place that they like the most.

And he said, Instagram. I went, okay, great. Let me follow you there. What's your handle? We followed each other and then it began. Every day he would post on Instagram or do a story or something and every single day for three months, I would comment . He was, he showed, he made a bet with his sons that they wouldn't be able to not eat sugar for more than, Like for a week.

And they broke within the day and they, and he said it was for 25 bucks. And I'm like, ah, you should have charged him 50. That's hilarious. You know, he posts about his wife and how happy she is to see Christmas lights, and I looked at that and went, you should give your wife Christmas lights multiple times a year for how happy she was in that photo.

Right? So what am I doing? Every little piece I am. Being funny, I'm being entertaining. I'm showing my consistency that every single day he can rely that I will show that he is important, that I am listening, that I am acknowledging him. I am building the trust, respect, rapport, all through comments. So by the time the six month, so by the time the third month came where.

What am I creating? We should be with every piece of marketing we do, we're creating the whole point is to create top of mind awareness, right? Mm-hmm. , Toma. Mm-hmm. . So I don't have to tell you, you know, this, but for those that are listening, the first moment that they have the idea that they need someone, a product or service like yours, you were the first person that pops up and that's what happened Three months in, he said, Hey, Amanda, we'd like to buy 650 of the ultimate sales machine and send them to our best clients.

Is that okay? And I went, that'll be fine. Action. Right. And they just bought another thousand books, for the new launch of the book. So, and I've beared so much fruit from that. That was six years ago. We continue to work together because I put in the sweat equity of just being a valuable resource with every comment.

I'm adding value. I'm showing my expertise as well. I'm helping them. So this gentleman had a hundred. So I would've never been able to cold call my way. How would I talk to him every day? I had his cell phone, but what would I try to have a conversation to say on social? They're looking to get attention.

They're looking for likes, they're looking for comments. They want validation there, so why not? My father used to say, be a bright spot in their day. So they look forward to your calls, your interactions. We can do that with social. It's absurd. I don't know what my father would've done if he actually had social to do social selling.

Yes. So that's another way. It's super fascinating because I think that a lot where a lot of people come to us and they struggle is they'll say things like, well, we just can't figure out what to post about or what to create content about, and the strategy that you're talking about is the solution to this, which, which is on LinkedIn.

You don't have to be the one creating content. Just go do what Amanda's saying. Make a list of the people that you wanna follow and go be their best commenter every single day. I, I always tell people, if you just took 15 minutes in the morning or after, whenever you, whenever you best, you know, alert and just go through and look at those people's pages and comment on their latest posts.

Like, and you even just looking at their pages. Cause now you can see on LinkedIn whether somebody viewed your page.  and that top of mind stuff, it's hard to like, it's hard to measure it. I think it's hard to measure it directly sometimes with a lot of things that we do. Even like this podcast for me, like I do a podcast and there's social posts and I do have a lot of content that gets created and put out.

Mm-hmm. And all that kind of stuff. But a lot of times the most valuable stuff is exactly what you're talking about, which is, Just go be a nice person to somebody else. Add value to their day, make them smile, make them laugh on something that they're posting, that they want attention. They're literally begging for interaction.

So just give it to them and then all of a sudden you're like, I mean, I had a guy the other day who, came to an event that I talked at. I don't know, like three years ago. And this is a big deal, like a hundred thousand dollars deal. Mm-hmm. And he's like, Hey, you know, we're finally ready to redo our messaging.

And we know that, I know you're the expert on Story Brand and there's like 800 story brand guides around the country, but why does you remember me? So I've been talking at an event and since then he's. Seen a few webinars, seen a few things, and across time I've commented on a bunch of his stuff, so he just remembers me like, there's so much value there.

People that are listening go make your go. Make your list of top 100 s. Go be their best commenter on on LinkedIn especially, and you'd be surprised what it can turn into. I love that. I, I also would say, so some people get intimidated by the hundred. Sure. The whole purpose is to narrow and refine and get super focused on where you need to, give your energy.

Right. Because, so if it's a hundred. For an organization that he had, he had multiple people in marketing. He had multiple salespeople, he himself, so a hundred actually felt very small. For smaller organizations, it could be 12, it could be one. That's a good thing. , so I, I think the hundred has intimidated me, honestly, even when I think about it.

Oh, why haven't I done it? Well, cuz it's too many. Well, why don't you just start with five? I don't know. This seems obvious now that you're saying it. I'm just not doing. Well, and so I, when I first inherited the company, I was trying to rebuild the brand to let people know that we're here to stay, right? So it's been 10 years since my father passed.

Now I've been c e O for eight. But when I first inherited it, I was trying to find a way to just say, We're here, you know, instead of a tragedy. And sure. I went out to 12 of the biggest people in my industry and said, Hey, I'm putting on a virtual event that will be the best virtual event for entrepreneurs this entire year.

We'll, we'll easily reach a million entrepreneurs. I would love you to be a part of it. And I started from absolutely nothing going to the biggest and the best. I ended up bringing them just 12 together. It generated me 30,000 leads without costing me a freaking. . Wow. It's incredible. It was incredible. So, 12, right?

It took 12. It didn't take a hundred. So what are we doing to really hone in on who is most important? I, it's not sustainable to say, I'm gonna pick a hundred, and then I'm going to comment on every single thing they do every single day. Maybe for a va, maybe, but if you're a c e O, you don't have the time.

But I knew that that one, that I talked to you. They would make all the difference for me in my business. So I laser focused and I made sure that I was always commenting on them. So if we can. Really committed, and we say it's very e simple. If you just do it one hour a week, if even you just set aside.

Okay, so everybody that's listening right now, what day, what hour are you committed to spend that one hour a week?  to win over your better buyers. And then the purpose is to go from maybe I've never heard of you before, to Oh yes, I've heard of them to Oh, I know them to, oh yeah. We've met to, we're working together and we want to be everywhere to them where they just say, wow, you are everywhere.

Well, yeah. I'm, I'm actually only everywhere to about 20 people, but the, the 20 most influential people that I need to close business today. So I am in their, social media, I'm in their, social feed. I am, my ads are running just to those few, right? So the, the ad budget is much less, but I'm so hyper-focused, right?

I'm sending direct mail. Why not if there's only 20 of them, right? So we circle the dragon as my, head of sales, Ted Miller would say. , yeah. So one of the things that, it makes me think about is. , you know, we use this term, we'd say like account based marketing for people who are listening that the idea is basically like you'd have a list of accounts and you're gonna market to those accounts.

Yeah. You're talking about on the sales side. But there's, I don't know, whenever I talk about sales and marketing these days, I always feel like there's a lot of blend. Like I think marketing's kind of the wide cast net and sales is exactly what you're talking about, which is like the laser focus. , but I get that comment a lot.

People will say, Janice, feel like you're everywhere. And the interesting thing is, I'm actually almost nowhere. Because I have five kids at home and I have no interest in, breakfast meetings or evening events or going to talk at most things unless it's just a really good fit for me because I have five teenagers at home and I only get the.

Years, my oldest son turns, 18 in 26 days from the time that I'm recording this podcast. And that's completely overwhelming. And so, and yet at the same time, people will, will still ta say to me, Hey, I feel like I see you everywhere. It's because of like, things like this. I'm probably not as structured and organized as what you're talking about, but.

Man, for people that are not doing this, this is like the secret, the silver bullet for, and this is just one of the pieces, you know, of the 12 in the book that we're talking about. The other one that really struck my eye, cuz I'm curious, how you'll unpack this is the idea of, worktop workshop style meetings, ah,

So talk, unpack that a little bit. . Absolutely. So that's funny that you say that because we have the sexy things. We have like Dream 100 people love that and they come to, to us like help us deploy our Dream 100. Or we have education-based marketing, which I think you and I could really geek out on cuz that's more around the messaging side.

Sounds like you're very good at that as well. So, To do follow up. I love that. Yep. For that, but, but what really moves the needle the fastest? So much of the time, and I normally don't say this, is that, I mean, 52 million meetings are ineffectively run every single day in the United States. Just in the United States alone.

So organizations don't know how to run an effective. And a majority of the time it's the c e o or the C-suite that comes to the meeting and feel that they need to go out and have every idea and dictate to the rest of the team, this is what needs to get done. Okay, now go do it. But if you're perpetually coming up with every idea, how do you get buy-in from the whole team?

Majority of the time the answer is actually within the team. We just don't create a container or a productive container to allow them to give feedback in a way that can be constructive and create results from it. So we do a workshopping, methodology where, Let's say, so when we do consulting, we'll, we'll put up a question on the board and we'll say, what's the biggest thing holding you back from, what's the biggest thing holding your company back from growth?

And we'll give them, so this is key. So you'll need one person to moderate the process, and it'll be good to have somewhere to write. So if you're in person, you're writing on a whiteboard. If you're on a zoom, you're showing your screen and you're typing them up. So give every. Just about two minutes. You don't need a lot of time, but give them enough time to think through and write down all of the things that are holding them back from doubling their sales.

That's just the topic for this particular workshop. Okay, what are all the things that are holding me back from growing our sales? And then the moderator says, okay, after the two minutes have gone up, Now what are your answers? And go around to every person and get their answers of what are the things holding you back?

Then we, you know, get the duplicates and put them together and then say, where would you vote? That is the biggest thing holding this company back, and everybody will give a vote. And then based on that, we come up with what the true answer is. Then the next part of that workshop, which is critical, is how do we solve it?

What are the next steps to solve this? What and who can be held accountable for each step. Mm-hmm. , there you go. That way you have buy-in from the whole team because the whole team has determined that this is the problem, rather than the C e O or the C M O or the, you know, C-suite person coming in saying, this is our problem.

This is what needs to be solved. Now everybody has ownership. Well, I said that it was the problem and I said that this would be a solution, so I guess I do have to actually follow up and make sure that that happens. Does that make. Yeah. No, I love it. And I think what's interesting about that one to me is just this, I, I think when people open a sales book, they expect to see like just a bunch of sales tactics, you know, or like, I don't know, negotiation tips maybe.

And, and that one feels so far outside of that bucket. But it makes so much sense because it's about rallying people together. And if you can't rally people around the same idea and you, and there's not this like unified rallying cry of, of buy-in basically and support, then the, it's just the ship's not gonna sail very fast.

And it might still grow, it might still go, but it's not gonna do it very well and it's certainly not gonna double in any kind of reasonable amount of time. That's funny you should say that. So my father wrote the book and he wanted the title to be the Pig Head. The Pig-Headed Executive wins every.

That's what he wanted the title to be. And Penguin came back to him and said, we will not sell one book with that title . Our sales team doesn't even want to sell that book. He went, so then they said it should be the ultimate sales machine. And my father said, why would it be the ultimate sales machine? I talk about leadership, I talk about marketing, I talk about effective meetings, right?

Yeah. I, I talk about processes and procedures. And they said, no, this is the title. And he was so angry. , that was the title. And yet it's had great success. I mean, they were totally right about the title, but if you read through, well, publishers, I suppose, hopefully they know what they're talking about. Yeah.

But it is interesting because when I like glance through the 12, which I won't go through all of them cuz people should just go get the book themselves. But is that like the last one? You know what gets measured, gets managed and what's not measured is invisible. , like that doesn't feel like a sales thing.

It is though, because, you know, you gotta have a scoreboard. And if you're not, you know, if you're not keeping track, my son's gotta, I keep going back to my kids, but he's got a big football game tonight. You know, as of the day that we're recording this. And so if there's no scoreboard, a football game, it's just not nearly as exciting because, And, and the team that's playing doesn't have the same kind of drive.

If they've only got 30 seconds left and they got 50 yards to go and, and they need to score a touchdown, they're gonna make different decisions and they're gonna operate in a different way, then they would if that wasn't true. Yeah. And that, like, that feels like a, like I, like you said, it's a bigger, it's bigger than just sales, but at the end of the day, I always say, Businesses for sure, I believe are more about people than profits.

But if you don't have profits and you don't have sales, you can't take care of your people. And so it, it's kind of like, a little bit of everything. That's great. I love all of that. Yes, absolutely. So I said I was gonna flip this podcast upside down from what I normally do, which I, we've done, which I like.

And we can always come back to some of these tips too, but I want to circle around to what I really love to talk about, which is like the heart of the entrepreneur or business leader. And so you have been c e o now for eight years. , it's been 10 years since your dad passed, and that's a big transition because you've got, you know, you've got a brand that is essentially built on a personality.

It's like, you know, it's, it's like, you know, Zig Ziegler's son taking over his organization. Like, yep, he's still got the same last name, but man, zigs gone and, and there is no replacing Zig, you know, and there's no replacing your dad. It's more about moving forward. So I'd love to hear. I'm sure there's plenty of other people out there that are listening that are in family operated businesses and maybe, maybe they just took over or maybe at some point they're thinking they're gonna take over in the future.

, and, and maybe not. Maybe it won't come outta tragedy. Maybe it'll just be a planned transition. But talk about what you learned in some of those early years, cuz I imagine there were a lot of roadblocks along the way. Yeah, so for those that are unfamiliar with my story, so my, I was a singer. . I just released my fourth record.

I went to U USC Thornton School of Music, which is one of the top music schools in the nation, and my father got diagnosed with cancer. So I put that aside and I became a caregiver for him. And he never spent one night alone in the hospital. It was me, my brother, and my mother. We would rotate all nighters and he spent 382 nights there and Wow.

Never won alone. Right. So I spent easily a hundred nights in the hospital with him and never.  in any of that time, did he sit me down and say, Hey, Amanda, here are my companies. Hmm. Here's who runs them. Here's what I'd like to see from them. I mean, we just never had that dialogue. And the crazy part is there was time, right?

We, we could have had that conversation and we didn't. So when he passed and nobody knew what to do with me, I mean, there was no plan for that. , there was really not much of a succession plan. We had, every company had a CEO and all those CEOs reported to one CEO who then reported to my father. So it wasn't like my father was part of the day-to-day at all.

He was far surpassed that. It was like a body that didn't have a heart anymore because he was the brand. Right. It's Che Homes International. Sure. So it, yeah, that was devastating cuz me and my father were very close and, I. Thank goodness we were virtual company because I would be like sobbing while I was listening in on calls cuz I had no idea what, how to fathom or figure it out.

And if it weren't for, I have a, I have a spiritual teacher and I study under an Indian saint by the name of SVA Loma, her Holiness SHI 1008  But I just call her Guruji. Yeah. It's a long name. Yeah. It, it's, it, it's a very high honor. That's why it's so long. , So she told me that I could step in and continue to run the business and I kept looking at her like, that's crazy, never a million years.

You must be smoking something. I guess I just, I don't think you realize what you're saying, Gucci. , but. I, I, so I kept hiring and firing different C-suites to fill that void that my father left until eventually I did step in and she was a huge part of like releasing the limiting beliefs that I had, that I could do that cuz, you know, hundreds of staff.

It, it was not in a small undertaking, but then also recognizing that I had to. Create a company that I was proud of that was in alignment with. I know that you asked questions a lot on mission and core values, and my core values were different than my father's core values. Mm-hmm. , he was very much a fighter and I am very much a lover

So, like one of my core values is grace and beauty. To see beauty in everywhere I go and to leave it even more beautiful than when I leave. I had shared with my business coach cuz I practiced what we preach. You know, we also sell business coaching. , so I have my business coach and I came back to him with my core values and I went, I don't think I should be running, , a training company that around sales when these are my core values,

And he replied back to me. That's exactly why you should be doing what you're doing. You know, it's a, it's different and the world needs different today. So I think well interest cause when, say those things, I think that most, I, I would not say those things sound like things that align with sales. Like strategy, like it seem, it seems like that, sales would be more aligned with fighting.

But what I always tell people about sales is especially entrepreneurs who are uncomfortable with the idea of sales. Most people don't like salespeople because they've had a bad salesperson that has sold them something that they probably don't want, need or desire, but they got convinced into it. They were manipulated, and so they think per persuasion is somehow.

But what I always say is that good sales is just helping people accomplish something that they need, want or desire. And so if you believe that what you're doing is actually helping somebody else, which hopefully you do, otherwise you should sell something else. If you believe it's gonna help them, that I think you're morally obligated.

to convince them to buy it. And people are like morally obligated to sell to them. I'm like, yes, because it's gonna help them. And so it's interesting cuz that kind of like fits in more with that like lover thing. Cuz I'd, I'd say I'm probably more of a lover than a fighter. My wife's more of the fighter, but,  is, is that, I mean it's great.

We're a good combo, but I think that that's how I feel about sales. I don't, it doesn't bother me because like, I'm gonna help you and if you don't want to be. I'm gonna try and convince you, cuz I think persuasion can be good, but at the end of the day, it, it is an act. It is an act of love. Which is interesting cuz I've never thought of it until you said it that way.

And it's, it's interesting that you changed the values too. So how did the, how did the team handle that? Because you know, like for us, like our core values drawn up, drawn up on the wall behind me and that's who we say we. . I think our culture is the attitudes and behaviors that, that prove that to be true or not.

So how, how was that received internally? There's been a lot of changes in who's a part of the team and, it was hard, you know? Mm-hmm. Because my father had people for a decade or. Family members too, that just weren't really in alignment. And, I've, yeah, I've made, I've made a ton of changes internally to make it a place where I was really, I, I'm moving a lot more towards as well.

So the, the company was based around my father. Mm-hmm. . And I think that it can only get so far based around my father. I think we need a shift from father, or figurehead into more mission driven. , so we're, we're making th that transition now, and, and I think I speak for what is most inspiring for me, and I think it's also very indicative of what a millennial generation is looking for as well.

This, this idea of impact, like people don't just wanna do good by the world, you have to actually label yourself that you. You wanna help people? So now impact c e o is a thing. Yeah. , but, I, I am, I'm really pushing us in that direction because that's the kind of company that I wanna run. Like for instance, the new edition of the book.

, instead of writing a forward to the reader, I wrote a forward, dear Dad.  and it's this really vulnerable, honest letter to my father, about what happened. And, it's made a lot of grown men cry , which is not what you'd expect from the, the beginning of a sales book, like I said. And I wrote 94.

Versions of the final chapter, which, is based around a letter that I found. So the way that I learned my father's business was I would read his emails cuz I couldn't ask him things. That's great idea. Yeah. So I, when somebody would say, your father thought I was great, I'd go and find emails  about their names because they were totally making it up.

Like everybody said that my father thought they were great. , so that was a thing. But, I found this letter. Said that he had generated more wealth in the last six months than the prior eight years combined, and it was because of this thing. And I took that letter and I put it into the final chapter, and I called it the Encore.

He never got to give on how to live a rich and full life. So both of those things are talking more about both the forward and the final chapter are talking more around passion and purpose and vision and core value. , which. It's as if people don't, people wanna know why you're doing what you're doing because they're so desensitized by so much coming at them at all times.

All the content, all the, we went from having 40,000 commercial messages a day to today. We have 3.8 billion social media pages with every single person putting out content. So we're so adverse to wanting to be pitched. They wanna hear hanity. , right? Mm-hmm. . That's why the purpose driven and, and talking about what you're doing and why you're doing it resonates with people cuz we're just so bombarded by commercial messages.

Yeah, for sure. And you know, I think that, that, it's so interesting to like, just think about, I think I've just put mys, first of all, it wouldn't be hard to make me cry cause I'm a crier, but, maybe otherwise , but, but I think about. How hard that would've been. Like I think about how hard it must have been to have lost a dad that you're close to and then be faced with, you know, on, on one hand kind of carrying on his legacy, but also caring for yourself and for family and for the people that he cared for.

And then to have to go, Hey, some of these things aren't actually me. And if I'm gonna run a company,  like it. If you're not aligned, if you're not the closest aligned to the core values, then what the heck are they? You know, like, and I think that's something for people to think about as they listen to this and your story is if you're running a company or in leadership, you don't have to even be, you don't have to even own it or run it.

But if you're in leadership at a company and you're not just. Tied to those core values, like they're like written on your skin. They probably aren't right, or you're probably not right for that roller company, and that's a hard realization. Well, that's why 47 million Americans voluntarily left their jobs last year.

That's right. Even more this year. Yeah. Because people are, I always say people work for three primary reasons, and I think the third one is the one people realized actually mattered more than they thought. And people start businesses for this too. They, they want freedom. They want some level of autonomy to make decisions on their own or live the life that they wanna live.

However, they define that they want money because money allows you to do fun things and they want purpose. And that's the one that like if you're gonna wake up every day and. 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 12, 16 hours, however much you work in a day.  on something, it should matter, you know? And it should have some kind of impact.

And I think, you know, I always say I wanna run a business rich in people, not just pixels, you know, cause we build websites and do design stuff and all this kind of stuff, but if all we did, if our purpose was just to build websites, that's not very exciting. Like anybody can do that. Robots will be able to do that.

And like, I don't know, six months probably  and, and, and, but instead our, we help people grow their businesses and we have a help people grow their businesses. They get to achieve their dreams. When they achieve their dreams, they get to grow their teams. When they get to grow their teams, they get to care for their family and their other people get to care for their families.

Now they get to enjoy life. Like there's some real substance to that when we do our job well and so we should do it well. And so during the pandemic, I know a lot of other agency owners that lost.  tons of people and some of 'em are great folks, but, we were really blessed. We lost no one and wow. , we're a small team anyway, but at the same time, I think it's because our people like care deeply about the work that they get to do and care deeply about each other and hopefully get enough freedom and money to go along with it.

, that stuff really matters, but your story that, that. . That's, that was a hard transition. So where are you now? So that was then you made a lot of transitions. , you know, how do you feel about where you're at now and where you're going, with the company in the future? What does it look like for you?

It's a very exciting place. I mean, it took me four years to write the new edition of the book and we just hit nber one, seller last week, congrat, and we're thanks. And even more than that, we're up over 400. Wow. Over last year, which, you know, I wanted to be a product of the product, so we followed all of our own methodology.

We ate our own dog food all through the process. So I feel that we've achieved that, which is exciting. And moving forward, I, I've changed a bit of our. Belief system. So we talk about doubling sales and I think that that's critical. Obviously it's what many people want, but not at the expense of their family or their time.

For sure. And you know, I lost my father at 55. Mm-hmm.  and I. Would not want to help anybody double theirselves if that means that they have to work double the amount of time. So I've added to it that let's help you double yourselves while cutting your stress in half, because there's ways to work smarter with every day.

A billionaire makes the same amount of money and the same 24 hours as everyone else. It's just they're smarter about every move they're making. So, I want to help more entrepreneurs, and companies grow with without the expense of losing that time with their family or their health. , because I've been in that hospital rim when my father said he couldn't, he has so much wealth and yet nothing could buy his way out of that hospital.

Mm-hmm.  and, So that's part of my mission. And I also have a nonprofit that is run by my guru and. We're looking to procure a thousand acres. I've driven 10,000 miles around the United States looking for a little piece of heaven that people can come and reset because for me, so much of it was my mind that I just had to get clear, and once my mind was clear, The roadmap for doubling sales my father had already given.

So that was easy. It was more of the mind that needed to get the shifts. So I'd like to have that space where people can go and just get connected back to themselves where they can make positive decisions based on their own discernment rather than what you read on the internet and, how to, how to get healthy as well.

After watching my father through the medical system, I saw a lot that could be improved, and I've studied alternative medicine, more Eastern medicine, over the last decade under my guru. . So I'd like to bring that to more leaders of organizations, so that they can get their mind and their body, in balance and focused, and then, you know, to the moon and back, let's make some magic happen.

So that's, that's part of my mission. Well, it sounds like a lot of our heart is aligned because I always say like the title of my book is Building a Business that Lasts, but the subtitle is Without Sacrificing Family. , I have people all the time who come to me like, Hey Jay, if you just did this, you know you could do this and you could make this much more.

And I'm like, I don't care if it means I can't, if it means I can't be home for dinner. Then like, and that's why like I turned down a lot of stuff, you know, because right now, in this season of life where I'm at and everybody's season's different, you know, like yeah. Where you're at in life, where I'm at in life, those are different things.

And we also have different desires of what we want our days, weeks, years to look like now and ahead. And so, I really ha want people to build incredible businesses that make an incredible amount of money and have a huge impact. And I believe that they can do that without destroying the rest of their life.

, so that actually leads me to my last question. I always ask this cuz it's different for everybody and I'm, it matters a lot to me. , the topic in the business world of work-life balance comes up a. Came up a lot during Covid, people started to rethink what they think about what that even means. And so, two questions out of the, out of the root, which is nber one, what does work-life balance even mean to you and how has that changed?

How has your perspective on the idea or the thought around it, changed over different seasons of life? So what does it mean to you and how has it changed over different seasons of life?

It's an interesting, I think it's a.

So the different seasons of my last tenure, let's say. Mm-hmm. . So in the first two years, four years was really just like my hair's on fire. How do I get things into balance? So there was no balance. It was mostly, just fires and trying to right the ship. , then. The LA then for about a four year period, I was, I had gotten things into a balanced place with the business.

So I was spending more time in the nonprofit. , I was working couple hours a week, doing my business that way and spending six days a week, serving the community. , and then in the last two years I went back more into my business and, reimagined it cuz a lot of my father's techniques while can be applied to things on the internet.

It wasn't explicitly said in my father's training because the internet hadn't evolved to that place yet. So I came back in to, explain. How all of them apply it. I mean, people got it from it. That's why it kept selling books, but it needed that explanation. So I came back in and. Really got focused. So I find that I'm a very intensely focused han being.

And when I want to accomplish something I like, nothing stops me. So I just get tunnel vision intensely. So instead of saying, oh, I need more balance, maybe I'll take some yoga classes, I found a guru. I lived in a healing center. I shaved my head for four years. War. Only white pictures. Yes. I was a minimalist.

In through. Through. So,

My answer is that I'm still trying to figure it out, to be totally honest with you, and I've gone, when I've gone for balance, it's just been hyper where all I'm doing is Yeah, yeah. Is, I love looking for enlightenment. I love the idea of, I'm still trying to figure it out because I don't think there's an answer to, I don't think there's a right answer to the question.

Like, I think it's just that, that's why I always ask it the way that I do, because I think there's two things at play. Nber one, there's seasons of life. Like, am I single or am I married or do I have a significant other, or do I have children or do I not? Am I taking care of parents or not? Do I, you know, there there's, there's those kinds of things and then there's seasons of business.

So like, to your point when you first started and, and the whole thing feels like it's on fire.  or even somebody who's just starting a brand new business, there are many times where that needs to be the, just about the only thing for a pretty good season, if you're gonna kickstart it, just like you gotta tend the fire really carefully at the beginning.

But, but, but if you don't have any embers or coals that are keeping that fire warm and lit, you really gotta stay with her. That thing's not gonna light. That's what business is like. And I think, there's seasons of business and there's seasons. And I don't think anybody's got it figured out. I think we're all just on a journey continually figuring it out.

But it's worth asking the question, and it's worth stopping and going. Yeah, business matters and money matters, and sales matter and profits matter. Those are all can be good things and they can destroy you. And so at the end of the day when somebody wants to build a business that lasts, I love bringing people like you on, which is probably why Megan suggest.

, we try and connect, who have great ideas of how we can sell things and make money for sure, and care deeply about what does life look like and, and, and what, what's our purpose and why are we here? So, what I'd love to leave people with is two final things from you. Nber one. Is, where can they find you on the internet?

Where, where can they find the book? What's the best place for that? And nber two, any parting advice for people as you are, you know, now a decade in, you know, any parting advice for people who wanna build a business that lasts? Oh, okay. , find the book@ultimatesalesmachine.com. It's the name ultimate sales machine.com.

, find me specifically. I spend more of my time, well, I'm everywhere. Amanda Holmes, but specifically on Instagram and Amanda Holmes is taken by some woman that doesn't. Oh, I'm still trying to get her account, but , I had to go by my salsa name, which is a Manita Holmes. Oh, that's even more fun anyway, you know?

Yeah. . Oh, I dunno. And then, how to run a successful business that lasts. , like you're saying, there's phases, right? So the company that I had 10 years ago, the company that I had two years ago, Is different based around my life. And I think it's like, it's as if somebody needs permission to say, Hey, it's okay to do what, what you'd like to do.

You know, I, I'm very big about breaking barriers and breaking boxes. Like if I see a limit, I wanna break it  I, it's. Sometimes constructive, sometimes not. , . , so I, I, I push others to say yes. If, if, if you wanna live half of your life in Europe in a villa, Why not? Like the world made it so that we can do that today.

If I wanted to spend six days out of seven in a, a healing center and communal garden and only eat what I grew in the garden and teach kids how to connect to the earth, like why not I could do it. Why? Because I'm the boss of my own life and I can choose. We get to write our own lives so that. That would be, and, and the business can flow, flow and follow just based on you and knowing you and knowing what lights your fire.

I love that you said we, we can write our own story. That's why people start businesses. , and it's easy to forget it though. , I, I've gotta spend a lot of time with Donald Miller and one of the things he says is that fate is a horrible author, and so we should write our own stories and, and, and business to some extent.

Many times can end up becoming a prison, but we're, what it really should be is a playground. And so, as people are kind of wrapping up today, thinking about the things we've talked about, that's a good question to ask. How, how could my business be more of a playground than a prison? And, and use Amanda's story as permission for you to do what you want to do with your business.

Because it's yours. It's one of the beauties of having that opportunity. Amanda, thank you so much. Or Manita, whichever one we want to go with  for being on this show today. , I'm gonna follow you online and I'm gonna encourage other people too. We'll share the link and the podcast notes to the book, the Ultimate Sales Machine.

It's been a true pleasure. I hope this episode has given you some ideas or inspiration. That will help you grow your business. If you found it helpful and you know somebody else who might benefit from it as well, I would greatly appreciate it if you would take the time to share this with them, maybe on Facebook or Twitter or LinkedIn, or even shoot an email over to a friend, with a link to this podcast in it.

And if you haven't already, make sure you sign up for our email list at building a business that lasts.com.