How to Become an Authority in Your Market with Michael Zipursky

Positioning yourself as an authority in your market doesn’t happen overnight — but it can be done. In this episode, Consulting Success CEO Michael Zipursky shares some insight on getting there. Known as one of the world’s top authorities on growing a consulting business, Michael is an entrepreneur-turned-consultant who now teaches other businesses everything they need to know about attracting their ideal clients, increasing their fees, and positioning themselves as a true authority in their market. 

Transcript

spk_0:   0:00
If you've ever wanted to run a successful consulting business, this conversation is for you. I talked to Michael's, a Persky who has helped hundreds of entrepreneurs developed successful consulting's agencies all around the world. We talk about learning from failures we talk about in perfect action and how it can create power, and we go through his principles toe how to build a successful consulting agency. I can't wait to share this conversation with you. There's all kinds of great powerful insight and nuggets throughout this conversation without any further ado. Here's my conversation with Michael. Hey, Michael, Thanks for being on the show. Great. Everything J So I'm really excited to have you because you have a lot of insights that are really gonna help people on their entrepreneurial journey. You talk a lot about consulting and successful strategies to grow and would love. To hear a little bit about this as we kick off is what kind of put you in that field that you're in now. You've been in this for quite a while. He helped a lot of other people grow their businesses and consulting practices successfully. What kind of put you in the place that you're in right now s.

spk_1:   1:11
So I've been building consulting business now for 19 years. The last 10 years, been working with consultants directly, Taliban to grow their businesses. And I really got to kind of got into consulting by building my first business with my cousin and business partner, Sam, who to this day it remains my my business partner and my cousin. We just We started ah Web design development company way back in the day, and he was really focus more on the design and kind of element side. My background was just more geared towards the communications and client facing and marketing, and that just kind of was like the entry point to the consulting world. I don't have any formal quote unquote training. I didn't work at a big consulting firm. I just studied a lot. I read a lot of books I consume as much information as I could and what I started to find out as I was kind of building. This initial business was that I knew a lot more a boat marketing and about strategy than a lot of the business owners that I was speaking with. I was not the top person in the world. But I had an edge over a lot of people that I was speaking with him. So that just taught me that. Okay, maybe I could help people here. Maybe I can contribute some value in some ideas. And so then, as we got into our next business, which was a branding and design consultancy, we started to apply more of what we had learned. And so, you know, we've now built up and sold five or six different companies over over the years, and one just kind of led to the next. But in terms of getting to where I am today really working with consultants, that happened as I was running, one of are consulting businesses. And Sam and I were talking a boat. How could we do something online together? We both love to travel. We wanted to be able to kind of run a business from anywhere. And so we thought, Well, let's just start putting ideas of our experiences like, what's it really like being the trenches of building a consulting business online? And so there was no monetization Plan J. It was just let's put up articles and content and see what happens with it. And the response was pretty dramatic. We had a lot of people reaching out. A lot of people saying Hey, this is really great Appreciate you sharing You know, the winds and the losses. You have something that can pick us into more detail on that, then kind of spawned the courses on on building, consulting business and the coaching program. Kind of everything else that we're now known for today really just got started by this idea of Let's share what we're actually doing in real life

spk_0:   3:23
that's great. So the content driven aspect is not really interested in because I think a lot of people struggle with this. I will hear people from time to time. When we talk about these ideas of just putting content ideas out there and helping people, they think 1st 1 how do I make money off of it? That's the first blast and second, I don't want to give away all my good ideas like I hear a lot of things and there's plenty of folks who have kind of countered that argument and you certainly have a CZ Well, so what would you say? to those people who are like, I don't want to give away all my good ideas by putting all this content out there. Yes,

spk_1:   3:54
I think what I've observed over the years of building businesses on having plenty of learning experiences a k failures but also some. Some wins here and there is that the person that struggles tends to have a scarcity mindset, and those who succeed tend to have an abundance mindset. The concern of you know, if I give all this away, then why will that? Why will someone even need me as a scarcity mindset? Look at the most successful just Lina. Look at the results. If you go to the Amazon or a bookstore and you'll see that the biggest names in any given industry right typically have books or a lot of their, their knowledge is, is out there like thing with a book itself. Rights packed with that person's knowledge. They're giving you hundreds of pages of deep, detailed information, yet they're still in demand, and the reality is because someone who takes your information and it kind of runs off with it and try to do it all themselves. They would never be a buyer of yours at that moment. Anyways, they're not ready to make an investment. But the person who picks up your book or goes through your course or whatever it is and then goes, Yeah, this is really interesting. I don't have time to apply all this myself. Maybe I can learn from this person are looking much free information this person has put out there. Imagine it would be like to actually work with them. That's the actual true buyer. And so that's why I would say, you know, the abundance mindset is really what helps people to to create greater results. Don't worry about what a small percent of people might do with your information that you give away for free. Recognize that the greatest people in really any industry are not concerned about that. They're putting on a much as they can as much value as they can, and that then brings attracts a lot more people to them.

spk_0:   5:23
I think that's great. You know, a lot of people I see stuck in that scarcity mindset, and but interestingly pretty much everybody I know who has been wildly successful, let's buy their own definition of what they wanted access to be, which can vary absolutely, which is based on the idea that there's plenty of fish in the sea minute. I always tell people with some of my best ideas, knowledge, resource and growth have come from being at events where there are other business owners like me who run the same kind of business I do, and we all to sit around the table and there's great speakers there and all that kind of stuff. But the most valuable times, or when you're sitting on a lunch table or a dinner table or in between breaks with coffee and you're sharing ideas and all those people are doing that because they have that mindset, they have the mindset of look, there's plenty of work out there. There's too much work out that way. We can have everything. We need other people to do these things. And if along the way I can help somebody else, I think that's gonna kind of come back to me. And I love that idea. You talked about failures, and you use the word learning experiences along the way. I always love to hear some real life difficulties that you've encountered because I think when people are running a business initially, it's easy for them to feel like I'm the only one that is experiencing these struggles, even if they know that's not true. And I think it's helpful to hear real stories from other people that have been through some difficult stuff and then figured out a way to work through them. You have an example of maybe something that you've had to go through the kind of resonates in that area.

spk_1:   6:49
Yeah, there's lots of examples, and I just want to point out in full transparency that the failures or I just don't call him feeling like called learning experiences, because I just I don't think it's a negative thing. It's it's part of improving. And what really matters is are you learning from that experience and then on then using that to increase your strengths. But I continue to have them to this day like that doesn't matter what level you're at and how successful you are. You will always continue to have challenges and things that might knock you down. But what's going to separate you from again from success and struggle is Are you gonna get back up, and the type of challenges that you have will differ depending on how big your company is in the complexity and all that. But you're still gonna have challenges that the moment you stop having challenges is the moment that you're essentially dead or you just have given up. So first recognized that is normal. Recognized that as an entrepreneur, being worried and being anxious and being concerned is also normal. I think Ray Dalio, you know, said he's become a lot more kind of popular mainstream recently. But he talks about this idea that you should. It's actually healthy to worry, because if you worry, you can plan. If you're not worried about anything that's actually dangerous, cause it means you're not preparing for anything. So having worry is a good thing. Now, back to your specific question around maybe some failures or experiences that I can share around that. And, you know, one that I go back to that continues to teach me lessons as I share it with our clients and those we work with. Our coaching program is one of the early kind of ventures that Sam and I had. We were building. At that time, I had this idea for a community of professionals. It was kind of like linked in, But it was around the same time, Islington. We wanted to sing a little bit different, and it was Morpher kind of media and marketing people. And so long story short, we invested over $20,000 a lot of development time with developers, a company that we work with to develop this awesome in our minds product. We we really kind of painstakingly went through, making sure that we had all the best features we want, like way We kind of want to squeeze all the juice that we could from this investment. The only problem is that we didn't ask the marketplaces. That's what they actually wanted. And so when we went to kind of launch this thing, we recognized and actually heard from the community, we had built up a CZ beta testers, but they only wanted 5% of what we had built. And so that's that was a lesson that continues to kind of ring in my mind in my ears that it's so important to validate. I think it doesn't matter what kind of business you're in whether you're selling a product, you're selling a service, Whether your consultants or you are whatever inventing some new food product, you need to take the hypothesis that you have and validated. And you can't do that to sitting behind a computer planning. You know you're working on your business plan or updating your website or thinking about all the ways you're gonna dominate the world. You need to get out there. Not necessarily physically could be virtually, but you need to get out there. Need to talk to the people that are your ultimate buyers and hear from them first hand what it is that they want. And that's how you can then validate your idea. So we didn't do that. We learn from it, were luckily able to to change that kind of business model around and reposition and cut a lot of things down and turn that company very probable and later it was acquired. But that was a really interesting experience because it just continues to kind of guide how we approach marketing and business development.

spk_0:   9:58
That's really good, and I think that the validation things really important because I hear a lot of people sometimes say things like, A lot of people have told me that they would buy this and they confused that sometimes with validation. There's some validation there. Yeah, I always say there's a lot more validation with somebody actually write you a check. Somebody, actually is you for something. Even if it's small, I think coming to your point. Sometimes you build the bigger thing by mistake, and you should just built a small thing first, see if somebody will buy a piece of it, and if they will, that's the best and a validation of people willing to put their money behind.

spk_1:   10:30
Yeah, I mean, we could have probably done started with what we actually needed that time with $1000 investment, not a $20,000 investment. So we weigh over invested. But, you know, looking back, that's just the nature of it. It would've been a lot worse if we didn't even take action on the idea, because we we were trying to wait for things to be just perfect. And I think that's another big mistake that a lot of people make in business is that they're waiting too long there, deliberating and kind of analyzing decisions and or lack of decision. They're actually making decision because they're just trying to think through it so much. And that's another key trait that I've kind of recognize and observe J. Of successful entrepreneurs is that they are the ones that don't wait for all the answers. They're not just throwing stuff out there and hoping that it sticks, but they are taking some risk on. They're making some assumptions, and then they're spending a lot more time kind, Of course, correcting. We're adjusting to the decisions that they have made. But the main thing that gives them the edge over the others is they have actually gotten out of the gate by taking action.

spk_0:   11:25
I think that's really good. You know, one thing that I'm thinking about right now as we're talking about consulting and consultant sees and all this kind of stuff is there might be some people listening who might say, I'm not even quite sure what a consultancy is. I'm not sure what a consultant is compared toe some other kind of business, so I don't kind of watering it down. But two things. One I'd love to hear you talk about what is a consultant? First of all, really basic. And number two. You talk about these six principles of running a very sixth chestful. Virtual consultants love you. Kind of transition. Eso number one. What is a consultant number two? What are those six principles that you like to talk about? Yeah,

spk_1:   12:01
sure. So I think at the core consultant is a person or a company that provides value to another person or a kn organization that helps someone to solve a problem that they have most often not by going in there and doing the actual work to fix it, but Maur providing strategic advice and recommendations and guidance, showing them what they need to do and the guiding them supporting through that. That's really what? What? I've you as a consultant, as as being and then in terms of the Six principles are trying to kind of go over his maze. We can here time wise, but this was a post in kind of a video that I put out a boat kind of how we run a, you know, a seven figure consulting business. Well, while traveling the world and the first principle there that I think is really important is a boat subtraction. Over addition, a lot of people in business I see thinking they're in this kind of false belief that you need to add more things more service is more products Maur this, that and the other in order to grow. But if you actually study the most successful businesses when they first launch, they retrieve kind of real acceleration in traction by having less by being minimal. And so you know, we've seen in our business and also with many clients, that you're able to achieve even seven figures very profitable, very lean rather quickly with just like two, maybe three different products or service is you don't need to have a 10 you don't need have a website that says that you can do everything under the sun. You just need to be focused. So the first thing that I would really recommend to people if they wanna be very folks on lifestyle and I'm not talking if you want to build a big company or with many employees, your folks might be different. But if lifestyle is really important to you and you want to able to travel while you're building a business and kind of run a virtual team, then thinkable. What complexity can you remove? What can you subtract rather than what you can, you can add. The next part of it really is about having the right team in place. And when I say team, sometimes you'll go like, Well, I don't really want a team. That's kind of why I got out of the corporate world. But these don't need to be full time people. They could be contractors. They could be part time. They can even be different resource is or service's or tools that you use, you know, with people you've never met. But look at what are all the low value task that you're currently involved in on the day to day. And how can you delegate this? How can you get them off to someone else so that you don't need to do all that work yourself so you can therefore be folks on high value tasks, and that allows you then to prioritize. That allows you to get back your life and spend it doing things that you enjoy, like being with your family and loved ones of traveling or whatever it might be another one is, is coming into systems and processes. And so for us, you know, we always look at anything that we need to do more than once. How do we build a system, our process around that to ensure that we don't need to do it ourselves. So it's very connected to team in terms of delegation. But as an example, we run a podcast called The Consulting Success Podcast, and we started actually many years ago, positive cause. It wasn't the priority at that time, but then we decided it more recently. Let's bring it back. And so one of my conditions in doing that is that I just wanted to show up in and interview the guests. I didn't want to touch anything else. And so between the team and different service is that we use essentially built in this the system in process. So the only thing that I need to do is show up like you and I are doing right now, have the conversation, and everything else is pretty much taking care of as part of that, so that can happen in many different aspects of your business. Whether it's your marketing, whether it's your on boarding of new clients or whether it's some other accounting or administrative component. Another one that I talk about is as prioritizing or kind of prioritization as being really critical that we all have right 24 hours in a day. Yet some people accomplish a lot more than others. And why is that? Well, it comes down to, you know, Are you starting your day going through email and kind of running through the weeds? Or are you think, starting your day, being very focused on the things that are gonna actually move the business forward and help you to achieve what you want? And so I see a lot of people spending a lot of time doing busy work. But it's not necessarily the most effective work and kind of kind of term this as the build syndrome right? People like to build its like It's fun and easy to build your website or to play with your website or not just the colors of your logo, or do your business plan or play on social media. But those aren't necessarily things. They're gonna actually move your business forward so often times of things that are gonna move your business for the ones that you feel uncomfortable around. It's like you gotta pick up the phone, you have to go meet someone you have to send that email you need. Thio do things that you may not necessarily be the most comfortable with. But if those are the ones that can actually help you to move the business Ford, then that's what you should prioritize around. Get those done first. And if you just do that, even one or two things each day like that, you're gonna make a lot more progress than if you tried to do a whole bunch of other busywork. So I don't know, four or five we got right now in terms of I'm supposed

spk_0:   16:42
to find in a video, right? You've got him online, Correct? Yes. So I think that all these really interesting. But the subtraction over addition addition is really interesting to maybe because it's something we're working within our own agency right now is looking at everything that we do. You do? Oh, all of these things when you do them the same way that we do that now, is there something we can take away a lot of times. That's around something that is maybe not as profitable as other areas. But it also could just be things that we really like to do are really good at or things I really want to be all with. And that's kind of my focus to is I love that idea that you talked about with regards to prioritizing and creating systems, too, because I think for me. When I when I first launched this podcast, for example, I was doing all the things and I was like, I can't do this every full time job, right pieces involved, done and produced well and then edit it and posted and all that stuff. And but now I literally will show up for an interview and have a conversation. And then that's it about the My team takes care of the rest. So I love those ideas, and I think people are there listening, really need to, like, do a self evaluation, take a day and sit down and write down all those things that are eating up all your time and start looking at some of these principles. What kind of take away what can I prioritize differently? What can I put a system or process around? And you do that it's gonna give you a life that you actually want to live versus day,

spk_1:   18:08
Yes or jump in there. But I think what you're hitting on right now is so important for people. Because many of us, I'd say, probably most business owners don't do what you just said, which is Take the time right tactic, actual time. And this even is like ramp it at higher levels and with very successful entrepreneurs like we're so busy building the business that we don't actually take the time to think yet again. If you study the most successful people, they will tell you that they create time to think, because that's when things happen. That's when breakthroughs are achieved. It's very hard to create a breakthrough or to see something in a strategic way or to gain in you in a kind of innovative insight when you're just doing your daily work. But when you book the week off or even I was gonna say like 1/2 day off or or a day off and you go somewhere, go to the Nature book a hotel, like even in your own city. But just change and go to a coffee shop, right? Just change your environment. All of a sudden, you start heading into these new ideas that you never would have seen if you were just in your office. And I think that's why I, like a few people, often talk about having great ideas when they're in the shower. It's like your mind is not thinking about the business specifically when those ideas pop in so changing the environment. I'm in our office right now, but I'd say my best thing. It doesn't actually happen in the office. It happens when I'm walking from the office, back to my helps, or it happens when I'm on the airplane or it happens when you know I'm reading a book. Maybe you're just just different times. Going for a walk in the nature or very common for me at the gym in the morning on my mind is not even awake enough necessarily to be thinking about business. But I'm on the treadmill or I'm doing some weights or whatever, and all of a sudden it's like, Oh, yeah, I need to write that down, and I think that's a big opportunity for a lot of people.

spk_0:   19:48
Yeah, I think that one thing that you said there about changing your environments really key because it's so easy toe, you're here. But you're just gonna sit in their office. We're just trying to get the next idea, and they're not putting themselves in the place where that's even possible. But I think, you know, and I love technology of a big technology guy, especially when it comes to automation and stuff. But when you think about that particular topic, especially now we have our phones in our pockets all the time, and that thing is ready to vibrate at any moment with somebody on demand requesting our time or attention. And I mean, the science is all out there behind. Once you lose focus on the task that your hand it's hard, takes a long time to get back to it. And I think business owners, especially if we don't intentionally pull ourselves out of the world wind, you're just going to always live in it like there's always something that has to be done, and also I think, especially for someone like me, it feels good to check the task list off. It feels good to like, Do those tasked based things but as an entrepreneur are really value. Our greatest value, I should say, is in that visionary work that can only happen if we were disconnected and in a different location. So I think that's really helpful. Gosh, we have so much stuff already. One thing I'm gonna circle back to is at the beginning. You talked about how you have built and sold five different businesses. Not

spk_1:   21:00
just to be clear, I haven't sold all sold to those businesses about Yep.

spk_0:   21:04
Good. Thanks for clarifying, but still a couple of business is right. And what people kind of wonder what that looks like, How that comes about, I love. Just hear a little bit about that. Once you get to a point, where you going? Maybe this isn't an asset that could be sold. How do you How did you come to those decisions? You know, how did that kind of come about

spk_1:   21:21
eso with one of them? It was actually company that I talk to you about. Where we built this, made a big investment, try to build this community eternal appeal didn't really want a community. What we found that they really wanted was, ah, platform to be able to find really great jobs or contracts and have great cos you know, be able to essentially tap into them. So what we ended up kind of building was essentially job board that was focused on on marketing and design jobs specifically in Canada. We got that up to a point where it was one of the leaders in that space, and so for us, it was growing a profitable company, something that we really, you know, we enjoyed doing. But at the same time, we're also running our consulting business. And what we just found is that our passion and also just where we saw greater potential, we're already spending a lot more time on the consulting business. And so this job or was kind of getting it wasn't getting what I deserve. Like I always felt it was like this child that had so much potential. But we're being really bad parents because we weren't giving it its all. And so we tried a few different things in terms of putting some different kind of people and rolls and all that kind of stuff in place. But I'll tell you what we got to was back This idea. It's his child. It has so much potential. We need to give it a better home. And it just so happened that someone that I knew knew someone else who was buying and now running a whole bunch of different job board. They're kind of putting together a big portfolio of them. And so we had a conversation and it was actually pretty straightforward in terms of, If we can figure some way to make this work for both parties, then let's do it. And so it was a very, I say, relatively easy and stress free transaction, not crazy. Like you might hear, you know, out there. It was really about finding a good partner, someone who could take it over and do in a way that made sense for us financially but also made sense for for them and gave them long term prospects. So that was a really good experience, taught us a lot of boat about building a company and what's like to sell the company. But it was also very natural transition in that we didn't want to just have something hanging around because it was making money for us. We wanted to focus on where we saw greater potential because even if I was only spending on our two per week on that business, that was it wasn't actually an hour or two, right? I'd be in bed thinking water in the shower at the gym, and so that was just mental energy that I want either divert back to my kids or divert back to the main business or just doing something else. And so it's It's all a matter of priorities, right? I think a lot of people spend just time single building a business and making money. But they don't necessarily ask themselves the question of, Well, why am I doing that? Like, ultimately, what's the actually the angle that I want to achieve here? And I have been much more focused over the last several years, years on kind of quality of life and memories and creating those types of of experiences because I think those are, at the end of the day, the most meaningful.

spk_0:   23:58
That's actually a great transition into what I always kind of like to wrap up the show with is, um wrap it with two things. One will talk about work, life balance and Theo kind of hearing parting thoughts on how you think that we could build a business that lasts. So speaking to that to that, I want a higher quality of life. That means something a little bit different. Everybody and I don't even really like the word work life balance. But that's the most commonly used phrase. What does that even mean to you? First of all, And how have you over time? I mean, you already already heard some of these things, but how have you over time, kind of work towards that place where you said, Hey, this is This is the kind of life I want to live? Yeah, So I

spk_1:   24:35
think, you know, going back one of the things that I had written out many years ago when I was kind of first started My entrepreneurial journey was I want to be in a position where, for me freedom, this means not having Thio to think about money very much to to be able. If I want to go on a trip, I want to go eat at a restaurant or what I enjoy doing is treating those that I love, taking them over for a meal or an experience or whatever that might be. And so I wanted to get to that place. And so when I reached that place, it was it felt great, right? But like most people, you think Okay, well, what's the next you know, level and so forth that I can now now build, too. But for me again, kind of coming back to what I value most. It's it's family. I have two kids and my wife and I. We enjoy traveling. And so, you know, last year we spent about five months in different countries around the world still around in the business, and we've I think we'll always that we just got back from a trip to to Australia in L. A. Next week, then in Mexico with with family as well, so that, like they have the ability to travel and still work at the same time. Because for me, I don't guess is a clear separation between family and business. But I'm also the kind of person like I don't see a big deal of doing a little work on Sunday morning. If it just puts me in a better place for the rest of the day, or if I needed to, you know, wake up a little bit of working earlier on or later on. I might do that. I don't do that the same way that I would or that I did when I was younger and when I was starting my business, because I do believe that there is value to quote unquote the hustle or just working a little harder early on. And that's just because if you accelerate what you're doing, then you're able to try more things. You're able to learn faster, what works and what doesn't work. And so I couldn't be in the position that I'm in when I just started the business. Therefore, I had to hustle and work a little bit harder earlier on, but after a while you start to learn what doesn't work, which allows you to focus more on what does and so the kind of the very intentional plan that I set out again. I think the big thing here maybe that just like an offer to people, is I had a plan. I had a clear vision of what I wanted, which was to be able to run a business while living and traveling anywhere and be able to spend a lot of time with family. And so I have my priorities straight. Or at least I like to think that I do, and I try to kind of stay to them. But I'm up in early in the morning. I go to the gym that's critical for me. I come back to spend some time with the family. Then you know, I'm totally at the office between 10 and four ish, and then I come back and spend time with the family. Then you might depend on the day meet a friend or a cousin or whatever it is, you know, for a drink or some food or something like that. But I'm very focused on again the priorities of those six principles that we talked about for that's key, because all those subtractions and all those kind of prioritization Sze is what allows me to be very focus on what matters the most. So I'm not trying to work nonstop hours. I'm not trying to get everything done because the realization that I had J is I'll never get everything done. There's no no way possible. And as an entrepreneur, my mind is always gonna think of new ideas and always think of new strategies and tactics and, you know, things we should be doing. But if I try to do them all, there's no way that that would happen. I always feel like I'm, you know, kind of unsatisfactory. So it's all about getting very clear on what's important. And so for me, it's doing the right thing of the business, helping our clients to get great results and then making sure that I'm creating memories with my family.

spk_0:   27:52
I love that, and I think one of the big things that I want to kind of right about what you just said. It was about having an intentional plan, and I think a lot of they think they have a plan. But it never even taken the time to write that plan down as much again. I love technology. There is some magic and like putting a pen to paper, you physically ripping down that future vision of yourself. And I also really appreciate that you kind of highlighted the idea that at times and seasons of life, and so when you're younger, you don't have many responsibilities. Maybe don't have kids yet. Maybe you're not married yet. Whatever the case may be, there is a season, especially if you wanna build ah, foundation where you gotta put in a little bit extra work just to get it jump started. I think that's been true for me as well. And then there does come a point in life where you go, Hey, how can I now get to where I wrote down on that plan where I want to go? I think that's really important because I think a lot of people can listen to a conversation like this between you and I, who have been doing business for decades, and they're brand new and business. They think, Oh, well, I just need to have all this extra free time and do these traveling things. That and I'm fuels overwhelming when they feel like I just need to work right now to get that done. That's okay too. Is a matter of having your own clan your insisted to get there?

spk_1:   28:59
Yeah. So when I was in in Sydney in Australia actually recorded video on this topic because I keep seeing people kind of in opposition of each other. So there's people like Gary V, right? Dana, check. We talked about the hustle and the people who hate what you do and say No, no, like, that's terrible. You should never hustle and sacrifice family and all that. But I think the line that people are missing is that both sides are actually right, that there's a place for the hustle and there's a place for the balance and the high value of little value. But the early days, if you're trying to optimize, there's nothing optimized. And so you gotta put in some of that work. You gotta hustle. You gotta know this is a time, as you call it, the seasons on. If you're in Melbourne will say there's actually four seasons in one day. I experienced that first time, but it's it's there's no right or wrong. I think that too often people are trying to use that from a marketing perspective, to kind of win you over or to get your attention. But I think the reality is that both sides are right. It just depends on your specific situation.

spk_0:   29:54
Yeah, I think what's really interesting about even someone like Gary V is is actually talked to him about this before In that kind of hustle all the time and his responsible. Basically, Billy, look, you, do you? If you're happy with where you are, that's OK for him. That's who he is and who he wants to be and where he is in life. And that's fine, too. But he's decided. But I think one of these, I always tell people, is ignore the system, but have a system. So, like, just because somebody else just because you say you should base it just doesn't necessarily mean they should. Just because I say they issue it doesn't mean they should. But they should take all that counsel in and go hear what works for where I'm at right now and where my plan is because your plan might be different than mine. I mean, if that's okay like but but have a plan, I think that's kind of a big takeaway from that. So we're running out of time here. If you were to give kind of parting thoughts to somebody who really wants to build a business that lasts makes them to that intentional plan. What's kind of one kind of parting idea? You might leave with our audience today? Yes,

spk_1:   30:51
so you know there's two words that I always share with our clients, especially coaching program, and it's in perfect action. Maybe if you have heard this idea before, but I do see so many people who are essentially kind of shackling themselves or delaying the progress that they could achieve by over thinking and not taking enough action by doubting themselves before they've even left the gate. And if you want a first, we'll build a business than just know there's. There's some risk involved, but you actually lower your risk. This is a counter and to depart jizz, you lower your risk by taking more action. Where some people think that you increase your risk by taking more action, right? Like if you don't have anything worked. Oh, you're increasing your ass, that's that's more risky. Well, no, it's not right. If you just go out, you'll learn what's correct and incorrect herbal. But the decision that you made, But if you're not actually been taking actually not gonna learn anything because you only have ideas and thoughts floating around in your mind. So that would be the first thing I would say is just for people to really take him perfect action and then, as you do filter of what's working for you, less of what's not working for you. And I think you and I are aligned on the technology side, like technology could be a great supporter and friend for you, but it can also delay a lot of your progress if you're spending so much of your time trying to learn the technology. And and instead of actually having real conversations with humans, you know that's an important thing. So I would put all those pieces together, and then I would say I make time to take care of yourself of your body of your mind and just to think, to think about what it is that you really want, because it's quite common for people to be so focused on doing what they're doing, that they end up in a place that they actually didn't want to get to you. So if you look at your plan, if you're gonna think about that on a daily or at least a weekly basis. You'll ensure the units You going off track a little bit, you'll be able to get back on pretty

spk_0:   32:40
quickly. It's really good counsel. I really appreciate the time that you've taken today to share ideas with me, and I've taken some things away that we really valuable in my own life. So I appreciate that and our audience will, too, if you want to learn more about you and kind of find out about all the work that you're doing. And maybe here's some more of your ideas. Where's the best place for him to go?

spk_1:   32:56
Yes, so at consulting success dot com, we do have actually a blueprint. So anyway, it's interesting kind of getting more involved in consulting or wanting to build a consulting business. We have a free guide that goes into the best practices around building a consulting business, and you can get that by going to consulting success dot com forward slash blueprint. All

spk_0:   33:14
right, consulting success dot com forward slash blueprint. I'm gonna go download that for myself and take a look at it. We'll put it in the show notes. Michael. Thank you. So much for being on the show today. Hey, J. A real pleasure. Thank you. I hope this episode has given you some ideas or inspiration that will help you grow your business if you found it helpful and you know somebody else who might benefit from it as well. I would greatly appreciate it if you would take the time to share this with him, maybe on Facebook or Twitter, or linked in, or even shoot an email over to a friend with a link to this podcast in it. And if you haven't already, make sure you sign up for email list at building a business that lasts dot com.