ATE-Creating an Opportunity for Investors with Camilla Jeffs and Bernadeau Charles

How to approach interested investors with a deal and what lessons to take from your experiences with Camilla Jeffs and Bernadeau Charles.

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This episode originally aired on January 17th, 2022
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Your host, Brian Briscoe, has been a general partner in 655 units worth $50 million and has been lead sponsor, asset manager, capital raiser, and key principal on these properties. He has developed a multifamily education community called the Tribe of Titans that helps aspiring investors learn the game, network with other like-minded professionals, and get their apartment investing business to the next level. He is founder of Streamline Capital Group, which will continue to acquire multifamily assets well into the future. He retired as a Lieutenant Colonel in the United States Marine Corps in 2021.

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Camilla Jeffs

Camilla Jeffs is passionate about financial education, building wealth, and living a life by design.  She is the Founder and CEO of Steady Stream Investments, a company focused on providing  investment opportunities in large multifamily and senior housing communities. With 18 years of  experience investing in real estate, she has done everything from live-in flips, single-family  rentals, small multifamily, and now large multifamily and assisted living. She specializes in  teaching the first-time investor how to achieve passive income and diversify their portfolio.  Camilla believes in the investing trifecta, where one can achieve not only strong financial  returns, but create social and environmental impact by providing safe, clean, and affordable  housing to entire communities. Camilla is a triathlete, an outdoor enthusiast, and devoted  mother to her five amazing children.  

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Bernadeau Charles

Bernadeau lives in the Orlando area with his wife Laura and daughter amelia. He started investing in real estate in 2019 and in that short time frame has been involved in one syndication of two RV parks as a limited partner and also has acquired a few small multi-families. Bernadeau started a meetup locally in Orlando in 2017 that focuses on helping others achieve their real estate goals. His sole purpose for investing in multi-family real estate is to buy back his time so he can spend it with his family and also help others do the same.

Transcript

Stop Asking Start Presenting

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Hey, Bernardo, we got Camilla here.

SPEAKER_00 0:01

What do you want to ask her? So, Camilla, how do you train your mind to remember to kind of be in that space of not asking per se, but just you're presenting an opportunity to people. And if they want to invest with you, they can, but it's not, hey, I need your money or hey, I'm I don't want to seem desperate to the person per se.

SPEAKER_02 0:18

Yeah.

unknown 0:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 0:19

So I mean, I had this exact same experience. You what you said, Bernardo, is exactly what I learned. I learned that it was all, I had positioned it as all being all about me. Like, I need their money. I need to get in on this deal. It was everything was about me instead of being about them. So if you think critically about your process, what was it like for you? What did you need to know? What did you need to understand? So think really critically about the steps that you took, the things you needed to understand. And then you create massive educational value for other people to invest. And then you're simply presenting to them, you're presenting to them education on the topic, and then you combine that with an investment opportunity.

Show Kickoff And Sponsor Intro

SPEAKER_01 1:12

Welcome to the Diary of an Apartment Investor Podcast with your host, Brian Briscoe. In this podcast, we bring some of the top professionals in the apartment investing field to discuss various aspects of the apartment investing journey with the sole purpose of educating listeners to make wise investment decisions. The Diary of an Apartment Investor Podcast is sponsored by Fore Oaks Capital, bringing you high yield returns through apartment complex investing. Welcome to the Diary of an Apartment Investor Podcast. I'm your host, Brian Briscoe with Fore Oaks Capital. Super excited for excited for today's show. We got two great people on the line with us today. We got Camilla Jeffs and we got Bernardo Charles. So, Camilla, as tradition, you know, you're up first. So welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_02 1:55

Thanks so much, Brian. I'm excited to be here.

SPEAKER_01 1:58

Yeah, excited to have you. I mean, we we've been kind of running around the same circles for a long time now. So it's great to finally get you on the podcast.

SPEAKER_02 2:05

I know, I know. We should have done this earlier.

SPEAKER_01 2:08

We should have, you know, and I I don't I don't know. Uh, you know, I I have somebody running up the scheduling for me now. And

Group Investing Explained Simply

SPEAKER_01 2:15

uh she she gives me a spreadsheet of you know potential um podcast guests. And uh it took a while, it took a while, but uh um glad it's finally here. And uh, you know, let's just let's start talking about you. I mean, that's that's why we're here. So tell us a little bit about yourself.

SPEAKER_02 2:30

Yeah, so I'm Camilla Jeffs. I am founder and CEO of Steady Stream Investments, it's my real estate syndication company, and um and the company is I always say it's an education company. So I built Steady Stream Investments to be an educational company to focus on it and um educating passive investors and how to get involved in in large multifamily investment investments. I call them group investing. I don't like to use the term syndication so much because you know, group investing, it just helps you understand really what it is. It's just a group of people coming together to buy a big apartment complex. And instead of going out and buying your own and doing everything yourself, you just join a group of investors and you do a small piece of it and then you and we all share in the returns.

SPEAKER_01 3:14

I like that. It makes it a lot easier to explain to people as well when you when you phrase things like that. Um, you know, we talk about syndications and we're syndicators, a syndication firm, and you know, a lot of people you know kind of scratch their heads and they're like, What's a syndication? You know, that's probably a very common question. And you do a really good job, just hey, we're investing as a group in a project, and it's super easy for people to understand. So tell us uh tell us a little bit more where where you're from, where you're at right now, and uh where you're looking to invest.

SPEAKER_02 3:42

So where I'm from is a tricky question. I was a uh military baby, so I was born in Germany and we lived all over the place. And I know you know all about all about this, Brian. I do, I do, yeah. Right. Um but we landed in um when my dad got out of out of the military, we landed in northern Utah, and that's where I spent most of my uh teenage years. And then after I got married, we have lived in five states since then. We've lived in Indiana, in Georgia, Arizona, Texas, and we are currently in Texas. Um, and that was all because of W-2 jobs. So sometimes it was his job that moved us to a different state, sometimes it was my job. More more recently, it's been my W-2 job that's moved us to other states. But um I'm excited because I just left that. Uh I was able to exit that to be full-time in real estate about eight weeks ago. So I'm excited to.

SPEAKER_01 4:35

Yeah, and we I think we were we were like a couple days apart from going, you know, leaving our W-2. Um, what what date specifically did you leave?

SPEAKER_02 4:43

October 1st.

SPEAKER_01 4:45

October 1st. Okay, okay. I left November 1st. So we were we were a month apart, but uh um, and I mean we went to rival colleges, so you I I just have to ask this question as well. You say northern Utah, what high school did you go to?

SPEAKER_02 4:59

Uh I went to Box Elder High School in Brigham City.

SPEAKER_01 5:02

Okay, okay. We we we were not rivals with Box Elder. So um I went to Leighton High School, you know, down the you know, just down the freeway.

SPEAKER_02 5:09

So but we played them in soccer. I was uh city girls' soccer team, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:13

Yeah, I mean we we would we would uh drive up for football games and I I I swam and played water polo and and we were you know up at their the box elder pool a couple of times, but uh you were a swimmer?

SPEAKER_02 5:24

What did you do? I was a swimmer too.

SPEAKER_01 5:26

I did uh breaststroke and butterfly.

SPEAKER_02 5:30

I was a breaststroker, not butterfly. That's too hard.

SPEAKER_01 5:33

Yeah, yeah. It's you know, at first it it was difficult, but once once you get into it, um honestly, I think breaststroke is actually the harder stroke once you once you learn the fundamentals, once you you start practicing. Um anyway, I I was always uh more tired after you know 100 yard 100 yard breaststroke than 100 yard butterfly. But uh maybe that means I wasn't trying hard enough when I was doing butterfly. I don't know. But uh um well, really cool, really cool. So um awesome box elder. So Brigham City's growing right now. I mean, it's it's one of those uh yeah, it's crazy. It's not a little town anymore. It's uh got some more substance to it. But uh um so yeah, so W-2 jumped around a lot of different places, um, ended up in Texas. Where in Texas are you right now? North Dallas area, North Dallas, we're in North Dallas.

SPEAKER_02 6:25

Uh we live in a tiny town called Gunner, Texas, okay, and a population of like 1500 country. We have chickens and animals,

Markets And Where Camilla Invests

SPEAKER_02 6:35

and um our nearest grocery store is 25 minutes away.

SPEAKER_01 6:39

Okay, and we all right, so so north of Dallas, not north Dallas.

SPEAKER_02 6:45

Yeah, north of about an hour north of the airport.

SPEAKER_01 6:49

Okay, all right. Well, incidentally, I was actually in Dallas last weekend. So had had I known you were in that area, I probably would have texted you and said, Hey, look, I'm in Dallas, but uh um I was in Plano, Frisco, Prosper, and we looked at some some properties in that area.

SPEAKER_02 7:05

So um Prosper is very close to my house.

SPEAKER_01 7:08

Okay, nice, nice. So yeah, next next time I'm down there, well, we'll have to you know meet for lunch or something. But uh yeah, it'd be awesome. So Dallas is hot, it's a hot market. Um, is that where you're investing right now?

SPEAKER_02 7:21

Not yet. So I've only lived here for about a year. So I've spent the last year trying to get to know the market and trying to exit my W-2. Um, but currently I invest in Arizona, that's where we moved from, and most of my assets are in Arizona, but I also invest in Oklahoma. Um and I love the Oklahoma market. And so I'm just about three hours south of most of my investments in Oklahoma. So I consider myself boots on the ground for those ones. I can go up and visit them at any time.

SPEAKER_01 7:47

You know, and and three hours is close enough. Um, you know, it's it's close enough, it's it ends up being a long day, but you it's a day trip, is all it is, you know. So um, and I I realize I'm I'm about three hours from um, if we do a property in in North Dallas like we want to, um I'll be as close to boots on the ground as as Fore Oaks has. And I'm I'm three hours away too. So it's it's about a two and a half hour airplane ride and you know a 30-minute Uber. So about the same. Um yeah, I mean, for for our asset managers and our our acquisitions guys, they're they're all roughly you know, three to four hours from the properties we have in the southeast. I I think that's um that's definitely doable. So Oklahoma, are you talking Oklahoma City or you're talking Tulsa or something else?

SPEAKER_02 8:34

I have an asset in Tulsa and one in Oklahoma City.

SPEAKER_01 8:37

Awesome. And where in Arizona?

SPEAKER_02 8:40

Phoenix and Tucson.

SPEAKER_01 8:42

Okay, all right, nice. Yeah, Phoenix and Tucson both super hot markets right now. I mean, um, yeah, wow. I mean, they they they match the summer temperature in in Phoenix, how hot they are. So um yeah. Yeah, well, cool. Well, tell us about uh, you know, one of these deals that you've

A 100 Unit Tulsa Deal Win

SPEAKER_01 9:00

done. Pick your your first, your favorite, or more recent, and give us give us some details.

SPEAKER_02 9:05

Yeah, so um I'll talk about one of the Oklahoma ones. So the Oklahoma one, it's uh 100 units in the Tulsa area. So I it's actually technically it's prior, which is just outside of Tulsa. And um this is a this is a really great asset, and it's one that we got from a uh off market from another investor. So another investor was um looking to sell and had got to know my partners really well. And my partners um, you know, just put the put the deal together and said, Hey, let's let's, you know, you're ready to sell, we're ready to buy, let's do this. And so put the deal together and um we're able to purchase it. And the the cool thing about it is it the property manager that's there, it's it's Winfield Property Management, uh absolutely the best property management company I've ever worked with is been is is in from and she's from Tulsa. Her name's Amy Winfield, and she's from Tulsa. And um, they had already been managing it for this investor, and so they had already started working on it and and trying to get the property up because it had a bad reputation before the previous owner took it over. Well, once we took it over, we just continued the momentum and the trajectory, and we have been able to already hit our pro forma year three within six months, which has been crazy, right? Because we we weren't anticipating that to happen. And and the also the fun thing about it is that we're giving our investors a um a distribution this week, and they weren't expecting a distribution till March of next year, and so we're giving them like a Christmas bonus, and it's really exciting to be able to hit something and to do well with the property and um you know right away and just have it cash flowing really nicely.

SPEAKER_01 10:51

Now, now tough question for you. All right. Um, so you're you're hitting your year three numbers. Um you know, and I'll I'll make this multiple choice and D is you know, none of the above. And but you know, do you think it's because of your your extra conservative underwriting that you hit those numbers? Or has has the market just grown to the point, has the market grown faster than you guys expected, or none of the above?

SPEAKER_02 11:16

So it's a little bit of a combination. So we were uber conservative in our underwriting, and we wanted to we wanted to make sure that we didn't uh you know that we could just hit things, right? We we want to um underpromise over delivery. Almost said it backwards.

SPEAKER_01 11:33

Yeah, I I've said it backwards before too. Yeah, big big conference. I said it backwards, and people were making fun of me for it. So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:40

Yeah. Um, so because of the conservative underwriting, things have gone well. But the other thing is that um, you know, the market there in prior, it's not it's not an Arizona market, it's not one that's like heating up this 28% year over year rent growth. Um, but it is it is doing well, and the fundamentals are are good there in such that there's a strong demand for housing, so really strong demand for housing. So some of the units that we turned, we were able to achieve a little bit more in rent than we thought we could. And we asked the property manager, just try it, right? Add $15 and try it and see what happens. And turns out, no problem. They were able to rent it out, no problem. And so, so because of that, you know, growth there, then we were able to achieve it. It's not like skyrocketing growth, but it is a little bit of growth and a little bit more demand for the product. And and we made the product really nice. Like we we uh we've already had comments from current residents who've been there for a while about how much nicer the property is and how it feels the the feel of it is just better. And so it's really starting to attract really high quality tenants, and that's been important for our

Upgrades That Residents Actually Feel

SPEAKER_02 12:46

business plan too.

SPEAKER_01 12:47

You know, I want to talk about that a little bit more. What what things do you think you guys have done to uh make the tenants say that?

SPEAKER_02 12:55

Yeah, so some of the things are are making it safer, right? So addressing any crime issues right away. So any any challenges happening with crime, we want to address that right away. The other thing is is improving the um the visual appeal of the property. So things like handrails, the handrails in the on the properties were kind of old and bent and and run down. Well, we're going in and we're replacing them immediately, right? You know, the property manager suggested to us, and it was funny because she suggested it kind of tentatively, as in she didn't think an owner would really care about handrails. We're like, no, we care about that. We want to, we want them to, we want everything to look nice and we want the whole feel of the property to to feel different than it did before. Um, we've done other things, and this is an interesting strategy. I really like it. It's we have put in um reserved parking spots so you can pay to reserve a parking spot that is right next to your unit. And the tenants are so excited about that, they're falling all over themselves to get a premier parking spot so they don't have to walk very far away to get to their uh unit, right? And the way ours are set up is it's actually a lot. There's a couple of buildings that have 30 units in them, but then we have a whole bunch of fourplexes that are spread out across, across. And so you can imagine that you know parking spots would be important for them. Um, and so things like that, and then just paying attention to the residents, just being on top of their needs and whatever they need and addressing maintenance issues very quickly, that's been really important to us in in the professional and the professional way that we treat, we treat them. Um, and that I think that's made the difference. And then one other thing that we've been doing is we've started doing um community activities. So we'll have like a Halloween activity uh for the kids, and the kids come out and do some trigger treating. We have little fun little pumpkins, they can do paint the pumpkins, you know. So we're trying to make it feel more like a community rather than just an apartment complex.

SPEAKER_01 14:56

Nice, nice. Yeah, I think that those are all really, really good things there. And um, you know, a lot of people, I think when they go into complexes like this, they have like this inside out mentality where you renovate the interiors and if you have money left over, you do more of the exteriors. Um, you know, I think, you know, I think you guys are are paying attention to the exteriors too, which tenants will see. You know, none of the tenants see the other interiors that are getting renovated. Um, and then you went and established a sense of community, which, you know, it does there, there's there's obviously costs associated with that. You know, you've got to pay for the event to be put on and everything, but uh, I think the biggest payback you get is the tenants are stickier, you know. And when you have that sense of community, people are less likely to move. And, you know, obviously, obviously we're we're in this to make money and provide housing, good, safe, clean housing for people. But you know, when when you're doing incremental raises to the rent year over year, they're more likely to just say, yep, you know, that's that's definitely worth what I'm getting. So I think there's a lot, a lot, a lot of goodness there. But uh um now, one thing that I love to ask everybody, um, I have a lot of favorite things, but this is this is my you know favorite question on the podcast,

The Big Burning Why

SPEAKER_01 16:11

you know. So Camilla, what is your big burning why?

SPEAKER_02 16:14

My big burning why. Yes. Why do I even do this, right? Why do I get up every day and work hard in this business? So a lot of it is about family for me. Um, so I have five children and um I I work really hard every day for a couple of reasons. So, one would be of course to provide a financial um comfortable life for our family. So we have the ability to take all five of them on vacation. You know, when they were young and uh we were a one-income family, it was very hard. It was very hard to do any kind of vacation, right? Just looking at at airplane prices and to take a family of seven, like multiply that price by seven, and suddenly you're at you know thousands and thousands of dollars to go on just one trip.

SPEAKER_04 16:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:00

Well, I was frustrated by that, and I wanted to have the ability to take them on multiple trips and not just fun family trips, but I want to take them on humanitarian trips too. And I want to take them and have them experience the world in um in a really big way. So that was that's one of the reasons. Reason two um about family is that I wanted to be a good example to my kids of going after big dreams and big things and and working hard in a business and showing them what it takes to get there and showing them the good, the bad, and the ugly, right? They live with me, they'll see the days that I'm off, the days that I'm frustrated and and the failures that that that I have. And and I talk to them about that, and I'm very open about, you know, well, it didn't go well today. Like things are things are rough. Um, and and we'll and we'll do that. And and they're so funny because they my teenage, I have twin daughters who are 16, and um they're they were laughing the other night because we were having dinner, and they're like, Mom, I bet we're the only teenagers to talk about investing at the dinner table.

SPEAKER_01 18:08

What a great problem to have, you know. I mean, wow, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:13

Yeah. So so I'm passionate about helping my family, but then the really cool thing about my investing experience is that the first 15 years of my investing journey was all just us doing our own thing, right? Doing our own single family rentals. We'd go renovate the houses, we did a small multis, we launched property management, and it was and we never partnered with other people, we never did any type of group investing. So when I found the group investing concept, I was so enamored by it. I thought, this is amazing. It's amazing the impact that we can create for multiple families. So it's not just my own family in my own investing. Now I can put together a group of people to purchase something and we all share in the returns. And then, of course, the cool thing in passive if you're the passive investors, you you're not the one doing any of the work, right? You don't have to be the landlord anymore.

SPEAKER_01 19:06

You don't have to be the property manager, you don't have yeah, exactly. Awesome. Yeah, and uh, you know, I mean, five kids, um, my hat's off to you. You know, my we we have five kids as well, but I think my my wife's got the brunt of of that because um, so so interestingly, um, just retired, they gave me uh a my retirement statement, which detailed exactly how long I have been away from home. The answer was six years and six months. So um yeah, so my my wife knows a lot better what it's like to raise five kids than I do, but uh um six only six years and six months, no big deal. Wow, yeah, but uh it's a lot. But uh anyway, I love I love your why, love your your story, and I think uh that there's a there's a lot to learn from that. I love the the group idea, you know, take your take your tribe with you, you know, so to speak. So um that said, last question for you, and then uh we'll bring Bernardo on. So what's next for you?

SPEAKER_02 20:03

Yeah, so I think I've I spent 2021 really building my business, so really focusing on on me, on the business, building out the processes, procedures, and and all the things and trying to to get achieve a certain level of success. And I feel like I've achieved that. And I feel like I did, I you know, I achieved what I I set out to do in 2021. In fact, I probably went beyond what I thought I could do.

SPEAKER_03 20:27

Congratulations, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:29

But 2022 for me, I really want to flip the script. I want the focus to be more outward. I want it to be on bringing more, bringing this the group investing concept to more and more families and helping to create impact in their lives. I want to create more impact in the lives of the residents of all the the you know assets that I I bring up. And and and so that's the that's the main focus will be for 2022, is just how much more impact can I create, both financially and socially, environmentally for people through the means of real estate. Um, so that's really what's next for me.

SPEAKER_01 21:05

So increasing increasing your impact. I love it. I love it.

Bernardo’s Wake Up Call

SPEAKER_01 21:09

All right. Well, we're gonna shift gears a little bit here and bring on Bernardo. So, Bernardo, welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_00 21:16

Thank you, Brian. It's good to be here.

SPEAKER_01 21:18

Yeah, great to have you on. So uh do us a favor, tell us a little bit about yourself.

SPEAKER_00 21:23

Yeah, of course. So my name is Bernardo, originally from Haiti, born and raised, and I came to the States when I was nine years old. Uh growing up, I was told, hey, here's a pencil and a paper, you know, and go to school, get A's and B's, get a good job, and you'll be fine. So that's what I did. I went to the school, I went to UCF here in Orlando, Florida, became an engineer, and in my head, I was gonna be major. So I was excited. I got my first uh full-time job with the Air Force at an OKC. So Camilla, I had been there before for two years, and I was living it out. I um But I had made it and I did everything I did everything I was not supposed to do. And the first thing I did was buy a new brand new sports car. I was excited, got me a channel, take chef, you know, and I was just I was on a high, man. And a year later I got into an accident and the car was totaled. And that event kind of woke me up. I feel like I was in a matrix, and that event kind of just woke me up and I realized that I've been living, you know, paycheck to paycheck with a full-time salary, which made no sense to me. And so you know, the car was worth a lot less a year later than when I bought it. So that nothing was adding up. And so that event allowed me to shift focus. I dove into books, podcasts, uh meetups, and uh bought my first property a year after that. And then I've been investing ever since, currently at 50 units, 45 in a syndication as an LP, and then I myself own five dollars uh in Florida. So that's in a nutshell.

SPEAKER_01 23:03

Awesome, awesome. Yeah, I I think um it's funny, you know. I talked about my my military background, but you'd see, especially after deployments, you'd see like the the young enlisted come back, and there were more, I think, Mustangs per capita in a Marine Corps base parking lot than anywhere else in the United States, because that's that's what they all did. You know, they they they would be gone for six or seven months, not have to not have a paycheck to spend and come back. And, you know, I finally arrived, I got some money and V8 Mustang, V8 Camaro, you know, we had Chargers, we had, you know, um Harley Davidson's and you know, um funny, funny story, and then I'll I'll let kick the mic back to you. But uh I was driving a young Marine around, and he was probably 15 years younger than me. And he's like, sir, no offense, but you're driving a 15-year-old Honda. He's like, you're making twice as much of all of us. He's like, I drive a Mustang, and you know, all my friends drive really, really nice cars. Why do you drive a 15-year-old Honda? And my answer was well, because every available penny I have is going to buy houses, and I have a bunch of investment houses. But uh, yeah, it's just that philosophy that uh um, you know, I I learned it from Rich Dad Poor Dad. But uh anyway, you brought brought up something that just reminded me of of a lot of a lot of what I saw, you know, just just uh in the last 20 years in the military. But so so that said you got you got five single family homes, um invested as an LP in 45. Um what what made you want to transition or or switch from single family to multifamily?

Leaving The W2 Mindset Shift

SPEAKER_00 24:50

Well, so uh so right now I have yes, five units. Uh it's mostly you know duplexes and one single family. Okay. But I realized, you know, my goal is to leave my W 2 as Camilla did this year, by the way. That's awesome. Congrats on that. And it would take me a long time to buy single family homes to be able to have the cash flow to match my income and my W 2. So I realized for me to get there, I need to be able to have more units to be able to scale much more faster, right? So that's why I'm shifting from duplexes and tries to bigger units to get there in a year or two and walk away from there.

SPEAKER_01 25:27

So I love it. You know, and and it was one day that I had the same realization. I was I was doing the single family, you know, uh rentals and um eventually realized the exact same thing. You know, how long is it gonna take me? How many single families is it gonna take me to get the passive income that I want? And for me, the answer was too many, you know. And um, that's when I started uh trying to figure out different ways and I landed on multi-family, obviously. But uh well, that's awesome. So, Bernardo, what's what's your big burning why? I mean, you talked about replacing your income, but is there something deeper than that?

SPEAKER_00 26:01

Yeah, so so my why in the beginning was, you know, I my income, but now I realize it's much more than that, right? Because you have a daughter who is now about to be seven months old, and I'm missing certain things. I'm missing, you know, her babbling, her rolling over. And so I'm gonna buy back my time, right? It's not the money aspect, right? I just want to buy back my time to be able to spend with my family and go on trips and see her grow. And that's really my biggest desire is to be able to have my time back. Because right now, my mother's still working, she's in her 50s, which doesn't make sense. I don't think life should be this way to we have to work till you're 62 and so forth, and not really enjoy any of it. And so I barely get to see her because she's always working, right? So I'm realizing I need to get my time back to see her more often, see my wife more often, my kid more often. So it's like my time essentially is my biggest why is the time aspect.

SPEAKER_01 26:56

Nice, nice. Yeah, I love it. I love it. I mean, we're we're here, I don't think we're here on the earth to work at W-2, you know, for 40 years. I mean, that's that's not our purpose in life. And I think a lot of people end up doing that because you know they just fall into the same routine that they're they're taught. Like, like you, I was taught get a good job, you know, work for a good company, and your company will take care of you, you know. So is that true anymore? I don't know. Um maybe, probably not, but uh anyway. Well, that said, thanks, thanks for for sharing your story and your why with us. And and now another one of my favorites, not my favorite question, my favorite part of the show, um, where I get to say, hey Bernardo, we got Camilla here. What do you want to ask her?

SPEAKER_00 27:39

Of course. So my first question for you, Camilla, is you just left UW-2, and that's my goal. My next goal is to do the same thing. What was your biggest fear, you know, in doing so that you had by by walking away from that job?

SPEAKER_02 27:54

I had two big fears. One, money, of course, right? Because the uh steady paycheck it was a was comforting for me, right? It was comforting to me to know that the paycheck was coming in steady all the time. Real estate um has some steady steadiness to it and some not, right? And so so you have you have the um you have to keep that in mind and you have to factor that in. And and so for me, you know, in order for me to feel comfortable leaving my W-2, I wanted to know that I had already replaced 70, at least 70% of my income. Um, I'm I'm not one that could just burn the boats and just you know go for it, right? I need it, I need safety and security because you know, I got a big family. Um, so that was that was one thing that was um nerve-wracking to me. And then the second one that was that was caused me a lot of anxiety was just when you become an entrepreneur, now everything is on you. There's no, there's no more pull, right? Like nobody is like coming to you and saying, hey, Camilla, I need you to do this by this deadline. It's all myself pushing out in pushing myself out into the world, right? And so that is a very different mindset that you have to be prepared for when you leave a W-2, because your your W-2, they'll, you know, they'll come to you, they'll tell you what to do. Nobody's telling me what to do right now. Nobody's telling me that I should go this direction, that I should wake up on a Monday morning, I should be on a podcast with Brian Briscoe at this time, right? That I'm the one that has to be out there saying, okay, my my goal, I'm gonna set a goal in Q4 to be on 20 podcasts. And that's the goal I set for myself. And now I have to go out and I have to make it happen. So that was another thing that was scary to me because um it's just a complete shift in mindset. And to be honest, it was a bumpy transition when I first left that first, you know, day one, and my calendar's white, right? Because I I worked in HR for tech companies, my calendar was full all the time. I always had things bouncing from one to the next to the next, and then I I'm faced with complete white space. It was a little bit disconcerting. And I and and I was like, Oh, nobody needs me. You know, so it's very different, very different.

SPEAKER_01 30:09

Yeah, I I would echo what she said. My my biggest challenge is not having somebody say, I need this by that date. I mean, I I as a W-2 employee, I would prioritize things by due dates, you know, it's like I got this product due this time, I got this report due at this time, you know, and that that would run my schedule. But uh, you know, same as Camilla, you know, it's you know, I two weeks from now, my my entire calendar is completely blank, you know, and uh, you know, maybe maybe one or two hours here and there. But uh, you know, being being in being your own boss does have its certain challenges, it's got a lot of allure, but uh end of the day, you know, the buck stops with me. You know, it's I I'm the only person that that makes it so I make a little more money or make less money, and that's um scary but exciting at the same time.

SPEAKER_00 31:00

Right. And I can see how you know having a paycheck, it's just it's so comfortable. It's it's knowing that I have a security there and I can see people around me at my job who just feel that way. And I have to remind myself every day, hey, this is temporary, you have you're gonna be out of here in a year or two, leverage the time and get things done. So it's a very it's a constant reminder that this is not you know forever. Don't don't rely on a paycheck to just survive, right?

Underwriting Value On A GP Team

SPEAKER_00 31:25

So my next question for you, Camilla, is you know, I'm an engineer, so my main value that I add in the space uh is underwriting. And so as an underwriter, how much value is that position in a GP uh you know overall? Because I'm looking to either build my team or join a team as an underwriter. So how would you evaluate the value that is that I can provide to someone as an underwriter?

SPEAKER_02 31:50

Yeah, so your value as an underwriter can be very big. Um and uh and it kind of depends on your team. So I think of a GP team as four, there's four main roles. There's your acquisition specialist, your underwriter, your capital raiser, your asset manager. Of course, those roles can be blended and people can do multiple things in in there. But those are the four main roles. And um, and so really the underwriter is kind of the person in the background. They're the they're they're not the one that are out there trying to find the deals. But if you can align yourself, I think I I would align myself with a really great acquisitions person, someone who loves to go talk to brokers and find deals and talk to owners so that um you know when they get the deal flow come in, they can pass you the that deal flow. You spend the time doing the underwriting for them. And then and then you know, you come back to them, say, okay, here's the numbers on this one. I think we could offer this, and then they could be the ones putting in the LOIs, right? So I think those like that's that would be your main partner person that you would want to team up with is someone who really loves the acquisitions side of things.

SPEAKER_01 32:55

Yeah. I'd also say that your your skill set is probably well um well suited for part of the asset management as well, because I mean, as an underwriter, you know, you're looking over the numbers and the budgets and everything else. And that's a good portion of the asset management, is making sure that uh, you know, the the budgets are are in line. And, you know, occasionally you have to change your budgets. You have to, you know, reallocate money here, reallocate money there. Um, so I I think depending on how you market yourself, you know, you could also learn, you obviously, you know, you're you're learning, you've learned to underwrite, but you could also learn the the asset management portion as well, where you're um providing the same type of skill set to either the asset manager or your asset manager.

SPEAKER_00 33:40

Cool, yeah. So I definitely appreciate that, guys. My next um, I guess my next thing is, you know, so far I've been a

Capital Raising Through Education

SPEAKER_00 33:45

one-man show. I've been calling brokers, underwriting deal, raising money. As a capital raiser, I find myself, I just trying to raise money. I find myself almost asking for the money. And, you know, I failed miserably. So, and I I've been hearing podcasts, people saying you don't really ask for the money, but you present an opportunity for them to invest with you. So, so Camilla, how do you train your mind to remember to kind of be in that space of not asking per se, but just you're presenting an opportunity to people, and if they want to invest with you, they can, but it's not, hey, I need your money or hey, I'm I need to borrow, or you know, I don't want to seem desperate to the person per se.

SPEAKER_02 34:25

Yeah.

unknown 34:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:26

So I mean, I had this exact same experience. But the first time I I attempted to raise capital for a deal, I talked to a lead sponsor and I said, Hey, I'll come on and I think I can raise 500,000. And I already spent a bunch of time working with investors and I talked to a lot of people and they all said, Yeah, I'm interested. I'm interested, I'm interested. But there's a very big difference between someone being interested and someone actually investing in a deal because it's a lot of money, right? I mean, if they they're putting $50,000 to $100,000 into your deal, that's a that's a lot to chew, right? So I failed. I told them I'd raise $500K and I ended up raising $50,000. Like one investor invested $50,000 into that deal. And therefore I couldn't even get into the deal as a general partner, right? But I still put my investor into the deal because they were excited about it and it was the right thing to do. Um, so and I've and I pondered about that experience and I looked back at that, you know, after I'd hung my head for a little bit and been frustrated with myself and said, okay, what can I learn from that experience? And you what you said, Bernardo, is exactly what I learned. I learned that it was all I had positioned it as all being all about me. Like I need their money, I need to get in on this deal. It was everything was about me instead of being about them. And I think, Bernardo, you have a really big advantage because you have already positioned yourself as a passive investor. You are a passive investor in a in a thing. So if you think critically about this, and this is the way I did it too, I invested passively first into syndications before I ever stepped into being a general partner. So if you think critically about your process, what was it like for you? What did you need to know? What did you need to understand? How what how comfortable did you need to feel? Like, did you understand everything? Maybe you didn't. Maybe you there were some things you wished you had understood before you stepped into that. So think really critically about the steps that you took, the things you needed to understand. And then you take every one of those pieces and you write something about them, you create a video about it, whatever, right? You create massive educational value for other people to invest. And then you're simply presenting to them, you're presenting to them education on the topic, and then in comb and then you combine that with an investment opportunity. And yes, that's the way you got to talk about it, is this is an investment opportunity, you know, that you want to take a look at, you know, take a look at this. Do you want in on it or do you not want not want in on it? Create a little bit of scarcity around it, you know, saying, you know, it's only gonna be open because typically a deal we launched will is only available for a week, two weeks, right? Sometimes they go in a day. I've had ones that have in 24 hours, all the money, all the spots are gone. Um, and so as you do that, but I want to caution you, Bernardo, that don't get um something I got real discouraged in the beginning because I failed, right? And then and then it took some time for me to actually have success. But the really interesting thing about raising capital is that it's a momentum game. And you just got to keep putting one foot in front of you as you go every day. You got to continue, okay. How else can I educate people? Who else can I talk to about this and be excited about the opportunity? Like, I man, I just love this, it's so cool. Um, and uh if you just continue doing that, you will have massive success down the line. But don't be too anxious to have it now.

SPEAKER_01 37:50

Yeah. One one thing I like to to do is say, I I mean, and you have to be able to do this, obviously, but I also hey I'm investing in this deal. Do you want to invest with me? All right. I mean, if you come at it from that mindset, I'm investing in this deal, will you invest with me? You know, it's it creates it, it doesn't have this the same, I'm desperate. It's more of a there's something I have that I want to share with you. And that's really the mentality that gets people to want to invest, you know. And um, you know, recently we we're we're gonna be closing out a deal in the next uh you know week or two. And um that's the approach that I took. You know, I wasn't the main capital raiser, but I did send, I am putting $50,000 into the deal. Um, I did send an email to about 20 people just to just to help the capital raising portion out. And that's what the email said. And I had a very high response rate to that email. It was, I am investing in this deal for the following reasons. Um, do you want to also invest with us?

SPEAKER_00 38:55

And how do you keep

Staying Top Of Mind Between Deals

SPEAKER_00 38:57

your investors um interested in between deals, right? So if you have closed people who are investing with you and you have more deals coming, how do you keep their attention, so to speak, throughout the different deals that you have?

SPEAKER_02 39:09

Yeah, great question. Great question. I think this is where a lot of syndicators get it wrong uh because they think that once they get them on their list, that they're they will always be interested. And then when a deal comes, they will they will invest. But the but again, like I said, it's a very big difference between someone who's interested and someone who actually invests. So education is huge here. And so my process, I'll share with you my process, is I I hold webinars twice a month with for my investors, for those people who are on my list so they can learn about it. The one I did last week was the three biggest risks of passive investing. And they're just short little 20-minute things, and then I'll be live and then do a 10-minute Q ⁇ A after. So twice a month webinars. I email twice a month, I email educational material to to my list. Um, I'm constantly posting on social media and and being, you know, guest speaking at in podcasts and at meetups, etc., just to continue to constantly educate. And that does a couple of things, right? One educates the people on your on your list, two, keeps you top of mind, right? And so that they they know you and they're they're familiar seeing your seeing you. And so they're if they're thinking about, right, if they got a big inheritance all of a sudden, the first thing they're gonna think about is you. They're gonna be like, oh, I I should go talk to Bernard O because he has investment opportunities and maybe and I need I gotta put this money somewhere. I can't put it in a bank, that would be ridiculous. Um, and so that's what it does for you, right? And then it and then it educates them enough so that when a deal does come along, they'll be excited to invest in and actually invest in your deal.

SPEAKER_01 40:44

Yeah, the only the only thing that I'll add to that is uh, you know, pot, I mean, the podcast is part of that as well. You know, you you try to put as much material, much content out there. And Camilla nailed it on the head, you want to stay on top of mind, right? Because um, as you know, people who are looking to invest, they typically don't know, don't just know one sponsor. You know, a lot of people that know Camilla know me, and vice versa, you know. So, you know, you want to be on top of mind. And when you have an opportunity, you don't want them to think, who was that again? You know, you want them, oh hey, Brian's got an opportunity. Awesome. You know, that's that's the reaction you want from them is oh, hey, great, I love this guy, you know, and so all all the content that you put out, and I'm I'm big on LinkedIn, I've got Instagram running and the podcast running, but that's the the key, what Camila said, you know, I'll just like I said, dive deep on that one is you want to stay top of mind.

SPEAKER_00 41:39

Gotcha. Yeah, I've been doing some some reels and some lives on IG to kind of stay, you know, in the space and just be more active on Instagram and LinkedIn and so forth. I think that's how I met you, Brian. So I hope I hope it's working.

SPEAKER_01 41:52

Yeah, well, it got us to meet. So I mean, there you go. Gotcha.

Lowest Points And Learning Partnering

SPEAKER_00 41:57

Uh next question I have, Camilla. So you mentioned you did 15 years of investing in single family homes before you shipped it to multifamily. And right now I'm in I think year two or so. What was your lowest point in that time frame? And how did you overcome that, you know, as far as your mindset and mentally to say, hey, it's been 15 years, I know I want to get to this to X, right? And how did you overcome that lowest point of that time frame?

SPEAKER_02 42:26

Yeah, so I mean, I I I just hit burnout, right? Just the classic burnt-out landlord, right? That's been doing this for so long. And yeah, and I I wanted a better way. And I always had on my vision board to buy an apartment complex. And so I I knew that was the that that should be the next step in the journey, but the challenge was how was the how of it? How do you even buy an apartment complex? Because I'd never purchased none of my properties were over a million dollars, and all our all apartment complexes cost millions of dollars, right? So I'm trying to figure this out this out. And but really, I think my attitude always has been everything is figure out. Is that even a word? I don't think that's a word.

SPEAKER_01 43:10

It is now, yeah, figure out, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 43:14

Figure outable. Yeah, you can figure things out. And and I think the the hardest part for me was really figuring out partnering. That was that was really challenging because, like I said, just DIY up until up until then. Um, but apartment com apartment investing is more, you know, groups, right? So how do I figure out uh the right partners and who to who to find or whatever? Um uh but I've always had this burning desire, and sometimes it it pulls me. It's like it's it's deep inside of of of achievement, right? Like I've got to achieve to be full to feel fulfilled. Um, and and so I allowed that to pull me through the really tough moments because I know deep down. that I have really great potential and that I can get there. And I believe that everybody has that inside of them. Everybody has that inside of them. You just have to allow it to help you instead of stifling it.

SPEAKER_03 44:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:14

I was just gonna say I think this year and that was my biggest mistake was doing everything myself because up until this point, just me and my wife buying our duplex, our single family. And so it's been hard having a chef to hey, you need a team around you to be able to go to the to this next level. And so I'm still struggling here and there to kind of get to that level but I realized that's the path for me to be able to you know progress. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:40

I I said the low point on my journey um was the day I turned 40. And the reason why I mean it wasn't it wasn't just because of the of turning 40 you know it was when I was you know late 20s I read rich Rich Dad Poor Dad Cash Flow Quadrant and I made a lot of goals and all of my goals were by my 40th birthday by the time I'm 40. And it was my 40th birthday that made me realize that I didn't hit a single one of those goals right you know so I had passive income goals I had net worth goals I had you know um number of asset goals this is how many you know uh single family homes I want in my portfolio goals. I hit zero you know and so for me that was an incredibly low point. Um being 40 and on a deployment without my family kind of contributed to it. But uh um at the same time I turned and I used that as fuel. And a lot of times you know when when I'm having a bad day or when I'm when I need the motivation I close my eyes and I put myself back in that moment that exact moment right there I just say I never want to feel like that again. I never ever want to feel like that again. And that's what gets me going.

SPEAKER_00 45:55

I think I think one of my lowest points um that I remember was right before my accident that happened with the Camaro me and the wife got into an argument at the time my girlfriend about something and I as we were arguing she said you know you work in this nice job being engineering making this money but yet you have nothing to show for it. Nothing and I'm just like what are you talking about? I didn't have a Camaro outside brand spec and you like and but she was right I had nothing to show for it. I was struggling to to survive I was living barely making ends meet right and so that shifted my mindset to hey you need to kind of think bigger than just here and now right so I at that point I just shifted my mindset and just slowly I began to just do things differently you know so yeah now now you'll have something to show for it.

SPEAKER_01 46:46

So

Where To Find Them And Final CTA

SPEAKER_01 46:47

boom or you you do have something you got five five units and you know 45 you know uh passive investment and 45 more um well we we are about out of time actually we are out of time I didn't uh wasn't paying attention we are out of time so one question quickly for both of you and uh Camilla you get to go first uh how can listeners learn more about you you can uh find me at my website camillajeffs.com I have a lot of educational material like I said I have I run an education company so um you can connect with me there and uh happy to chat with anybody awesome perfect and we'll put a link to that in the show notes for anybody interested and Bernardo same question for you how can listeners learn more about you yeah so I'm very active on Instagram so you you can find me there at Bernardo underscore buys underscore multifamily all right and we'll put a link to your profile in there as well and uh uh anybody just for for the listeners um definitely reach out to people if something you've heard on this podcast resonated with you I mean definitely reach out to you know Camilla or Bernardo and uh you know get talking so that said thank you both of you once again for coming on the show I very much appreciate your time today thank you for listening to the Diary of an apartment investor podcast today brought to you by Forox Capital. If you'd like to know more about how to invest in apartment buildings or want to be a guest in our show visit our website at foroxcapital.com slash podcast or email us directly. If you're still listening you obviously like the show so pull out your phone, tap subscribe and leave us a five star rating on your favorite podcast app. And we'll see you again next week