#57 Horror Special with Jordaline Reads

We welcome Jordaline Reads to the podcast today to discuss all things horror. Jenny and Jordaline share horror recommendations all the way from low tolerance/entry level to hardcore. We don't discuss any horror elements in any particular detail, but naturally we do mention subjects that come with a content warning i.e. rape, suicide, violence, etc. The episode transcript should be accessible from within your podcasting app or directly from Buzzsprout.

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Books mentioned

Uzumaki by Junji Ito
Shuzo Oshimi
The Hole by Hye-Young Pyun
Beloved Poison by E. S. Davenport
The Good People by Hannah Kent
Burial Rites by Hannah Kent
The Yellow Wallpaper by Charlotte Perkins Gilman
Crossroads by Laurel Hightower
Carmilla by Joseph Sheridan Le Fanu
True Crime by Samantha Kolesnik
Things We Say in the Dark by Kirsty Logan
Things We Lost in the Fire by Mariana Enriquez
The Good House by Tananarive Due
Blindness by José Saramago
No One Gets Out Alive by Adam Neville
Off Season by Jack Ketchum
American Psycho by Bret Easton Ellis
The Amulet by Michael McDowell

We encourage you to support independent bookshops or libraries. You can find a list of independent bookshops to support on our website, many of which do home delivery.

Films mentioned:
Shaun of the Dead
Anna and the Apocolypse
Get Out
The Ring
The Shining
Midsommar
Hereditary
American Psycho

Where to find us
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Transcript

Transcript 

00:00:00 Jordaline 

Probably the... oh hello Bug. 

00:00:02 Jenny 

Oh I love your cat. 

00:00:05 Jordaline 

I know right? we need you Boo Boo. 

00:00:11 Jenny 

I'm so glad he said hello. I really hope we can hear purring in the recording. That'll be really cute. 

00:00:19 Jordaline 

I hope so. 

00:00:24 Jenny 

Bye bye. 

00:00:24 Jordaline 

There we go. 

00:00:24 Jordaline 

I think he's leaving. 

00:00:26 Jordaline 

Oh, are you going to leave? 

00:00:27 Jordaline 

Uhm, so off season is probably the goriest book I've ever read. It is….. 

00:00:37 Jordaline 

This is why we can't have nice things! 

00:00:55 Jenny 

Hello, welcome to our Halloween horror special episode. 

00:00:59 Jenny 

You've got me Jenny in this episode and I'm recording this bit of preamble just to flag - one that although we're not a PG rated podcast and we do use explicit language on the pod, there is more than the odd F bomb in this episode so perhaps not an episode to play around children, and the second reason not to play this around children is that we discuss some of the more difficult subjects that horror books tend to focus on. We don't discuss anything in any particular graphic detail, but we do mention the topics of rape, abuse, score, suicide, etc. Basically all the content warnings you would expect to see in horror fiction apply Jordaline and I are obviously recording remotely and with the time difference between the UK and Canada recording clashed with bedtime, so you will hear a screaming child at some point. I promise you she was fine. 

We hope you enjoy this episode we discuss how everyone can enjoy horror and we start off with Nice entry level recommendations. So there really is something for everyone. 

00:02:19 Jenny 

Hello and welcome to The Bookcast Club, a fortnightly podcast by four friends obsessed with talking books. 

00:02:26 Jenny 

Today you've got me Jenny and I'm very excited that the lovely Jordaline of Jordaline Reads has agreed to join me because in this episode we're talking horror and listeners. 

You know, regular listeners of the podcast will know that the rest of the girls won't discuss horror books with me. 

So here we are. 

00:02:45 Jenny 

Welcome Jordaline. 

00:02:47 Jordaline 

Hi thank you. 

00:02:49 Jenny 

No, thank you for agreeing to come on like I'm trying hard not to fangirl right now 'cause I've watched you on YouTube and I think you're great and I was really excited when you said yes to coming on. So thank you very much. 

00:03:02 Jordaline 

Hello, thank you so much. 

00:03:06 Jordaline 

I'm so excited. 

00:03:08 Jenny 

Good good, I'm glad. 

00:03:10 Jenny 

So we are going to do a horror episode today. Now I warn Jordaline sometimes I can't really gauge whether other people that listen to this podcast will appreciate a horror episode. 

00:03:23 Jenny 

So we're kind of going to ease our way in and climb our way up to start with like entry level horror. 

00:03:31 Jenny 

And then we'll. 

00:03:32 Jordaline 

Guys we’ll get more ******* up as we go. 

00:03:33 Jenny 

Slightly more ******** towards the end, huh? 

00:03:36 Jenny 

Yeah, so first of all though. 

00:03:41 Jenny 

Jordaline, how did you? How did you start your YouTube channel like what made you start and when? 

00:03:50 Jordaline 

So technically I had a YouTube channel I want to say like six years ago, maybe more than that, maybe was like 8 years ago. It was a long time ago and I was like a little baby. I was probably like 22. 

I'm just. I was I was just awful like. Just rambling to the camera. Couldn't edit for **** like. I my book tastes were not good I Like read YA, or just whatever the **** like was popular like I didn't make my own decisions of like what to read. I was just like oh, everybody likes this one, so I should probably like it too. 

It wasn't until. I want to say like two or three years ago that I just made like a random video just being Like my favorite horror books 'cause it was like one of the genres that I on my YouTube channel that I like didn't talk about. And if you like go back it's awful. My hair is awful like I didn't know how to do my eyebrows like it's I should probably private those videos but like also, it's kind of iconic 'cause it's like wow, she really glowed up. She really really came through. 

But yeah, I so I made one video. I'm talking about my favorite horror novels. And it did really well and I was like, uhm. Maybe you should like Just continue with this and literally just snowballed into horror taking over my entire life. 

00:05:18 Jordaline 

And yeah, that's where I am now. 

00:05:22 Jenny 

So you make, do you exclusively talk horror now you do like thriller as well, don't you? 

00:05:27 Jordaline 

Yes I do. 

00:05:28 Jordaline 

Horror and thriller, but then I've also in this year Become I would say like to an unhealthy extent obsessed with manga, yeah. 

I've I've I've spent a lot of money. Just like hoarding manga, but you know what? It brings me joy. 

So yeah, I'm into that. As well. 

00:05:54 Jenny 

You got me reading one manga. 

00:05:57 Jenny 

And then halfway through. 

00:05:58 Jenny 

Hold on, I'm just on my Goodreads. Uzumaki! 

00:06:02 Jordaline 

Oh yes, I can't. 

00:06:03 Jenny 

That one. 

00:06:04 Jenny 

So I bought that 'cause. I saw you talking about it. And it is great. 

00:06:06 Jordaline 

So it's so good. Junji Ito. He is the godfather of horror. Of like horror manga. 

00:06:17 Jordaline 

You also need to read shoes washimi though shouzou is Daddy, literally I. His manga, his art style, his stories, gorgeous, terrifying. It's all psychological, and it's all very like femme fatale. 

00:06:33 Jenny 

OK, I'm going to move onto that one next then that sounds great, but I have to say you're... I've never watched someone on YouTube that can describe a book that they haven't read as well as you can. 

00:06:48 Jenny 

You have just this ability to sell a book, but you haven't even read that. 

00:06:53 Jenny 

You're so good at it, it's great. 

00:06:56 Jordaline 

Thank you so much. 

00:06:58 Jordaline 

It's literally just. It's really just like. Me living in my fantasy. 

00:07:03 Jordaline 

But thank you so much. 

00:07:04 Jordaline 

That's so nice. 

00:07:05 Jenny 

Because I don't watch like haul videos or very popular videos for people to do. But I mean most the time it is just people kind of like. Going through, but I mean I was never very good at. Or like they're like holding up a book and. 

00:07:17 Jordaline 

They're like it's just about a… 

00:07:17 Jenny 

Yeah, how would I? 

00:07:18 Jordaline 

Girl and it's like yeah Oh my God that is like I hate doing that in videos because it's because like in my head I'm like. There everyone clicking off, nobody wants to watch somebody readable or blank. 

00:07:30 Jenny 

Yeah, no, and they don't. 

00:07:31 Jordaline 

That's not why people click on a video. 

00:07:33 Jordaline 

No they don't, so yeah. 

00:07:35 Jordaline 

Even if I might have to like read a blurb, or if I just can't figure out like what the synopsis is, I always just like internally die a little bit. So like they're all leaving. 

00:07:45 Jenny 

So I thought I would get you to share what either what you're currently or what you've recently read. 

00:07:51 Jenny 

Just a book that… you don't have to have enjoyed it. 

00:07:55 Jenny 

Would you like to go first? 

00:07:57 Jordaline 

Sure, so currently I'm reading The Hole by Hye-Young Pyun. 

00:08:04 Jordaline 

It's a Korean novel translated into English, obviously, 'cause I can't read Korean, but it's only about four hours long. 'cause listen to the audio book. 

I I like it. But I also don't know what to think Of it, it's basically about this dude who gets into this horrible car accident like him and his wife are like get into this like horrific brutal accident and then his wife is like dead because, You know the story. And he's all ******** like his face is all like grotesque and gross and he can't ******* speak. He can't even like move like he is just like a cucumber basically. 

And so. His mother in law takes him in. And the part I'm at now, she's like inviting all these like religious people to come in and be like we blessing you, look and then she's like giving them a **** ton of money and he's like in his head 'cause he can't talk. He's like how how the **** are you getting all this money? Like where are you getting it from? 'cause you don't have any money you're getting from the insurer. 

It's like what's going on. 

I don't know, from the synopsis that I read on the back of the book. It's very different to what I'm experiencing while I'm reading it now, so I don't know. 

00:09:22 Jordaline 

We'll see. 

00:09:23 Jenny 

Sarah K is one of the Co hosts on this podcast, she makes a point of she doesn't read blurbs, and she doesn't read like marketing gumph that kinda stuff, but it's very reason because yeah, I mean the author doesn't write the bit on the back and they write what will sell something. 

00:09:41 Jenny 

And that’s half the problem. 

00:09:43 Jenny 

Sometimes it's…. 

00:09:43 Jordaline 

I'm sorry the author doesn't write the back. 

00:09:47 Jenny 

No, I don't. 

00:09:47 Jordaline 

Are you serious? 

00:09:48 Jenny 

Think so. 

00:09:49 Jenny 

Yeah, no I don't think so. 

00:09:50 Jenny 

I think it’s their publishing team. 

00:09:51 Jenny 

Do you remember.. I'm in Jordaline’s Patreon book club. 

And oh God what was the book that's Terrible that we read. 

00:09:58 Jordaline 

All of them. 

00:09:59 Jenny 

We haven't had a good hit rate have we? 

00:10:04 Jenny 

What was the? 

00:10:05 Jenny 

Ooh, one that was sold as Midsommar slash Blair Witch Project. 

00:10:11 Jordaline 

The village? 

00:10:11 Jenny 

The village yes yes. 

00:10:13 Jordaline 

Was it the village? 

00:10:14 Jenny 

So the marketing in in this country? That book, that's what they described it as. 

00:10:19 Jordaline 

Yeah, it's ******** Yeah, complete ******** It's nothing like Midsommar. 

00:10:20 Jenny 

I'm like who wrote this? 

00:10:24 Jordaline 

It's nothing like Blair witch project like just be your own thing. 

00:10:28 Jordaline 

Why can't you just be your own thing? 

00:10:30 Jordaline 

Stop trying to force your suckage onto it. 

00:10:30 Jenny 

It's really frustrating. 

00:10:36 Jenny 

Yeah, that was a particularly interesting book. 

00:10:38 Jenny 

I think maybe one person enjoyed it. 

00:10:42 Jordaline 

Ah yeah, that's always what happens, though, like it's always like. 

00:10:47 Jenny 

Yeah, and then you feel bad 'cause like actually most of you are just laying into this book, knowing full well that the person that enjoyed is kind of slowly getting pushed out the conversation. 

00:11:00 Jenny 

So I have literally just finished last night a book called Beloved Poison by ES Thompson. 

00:11:10 Jenny 

And have you heard of this one? 

00:11:11 Jordaline 

No, it sounds fancy though. 

00:11:13 Jenny 

I don't know if it's, it's very British, so it may well have only been released in the UK. 

00:11:19 Jenny 

It's about about… Now. the amount of Googling I did before we started recording on this. 

00:11:26 Jenny 

It's it's. 

00:11:28 Jenny 

I'm sorry if you can hear a child screaming right now. 

00:11:30 Jenny 

She's going to bed. 

00:11:32 Jenny 

It's about an apothecary, now I had to Google whether… I thought an apothecary was the place that they work in. 

00:11:42 Jenny 

So I was like OK. 

00:11:43 Jenny 

So what do I call The profession, but apparently that's an apothecary as well. 

00:11:48 Jenny 

It's all very confusing. 

00:11:49 Jordaline 

Is it like a pharmacist? 

00:11:52 Jenny 

I can hear cuddle mummy, cuddle, mummy. 

00:11:54 Jenny 

Well I I thought a pharmacist but this book is set in like Victorian London so. 

00:11:59 Jenny 

I think they're also called an apothecary. 

00:12:01 Jenny 

Uh, Googled it, and Apothecary is a profession. Anyway, that's what this person is. 

They are called Jem Flockhart and they work in this Victorian hospital and the whole kind of mystery is that they discover these small, almost like miniature coffins. 

They're stuffed with herbs and wrapped in bloody rags, and that's kind of the mystery. 

They then go on to solve… Jem Flockhart and then her mate Will who's come to dig up a load of dead bodies outside the hospital, I don't really know. 

00:12:44 Jenny 

It sounded great. The story. 

00:12:45 Jenny 

The atmosphere is really good in it, and how she describes London like 'cause I think everybody kind of knows that Victorian London was really disgusting and her descriptions of London at the time are fantastic. 

I think maybe they are knocking the hospital down, which might be why he's coming to like remove all these dead bodies from presumably what is the graveyard outside this hospital, but there's lots of like imagery of them like floating to the surface and that kind of stuff so that side of it I really enjoyed. 

00:13:21 Jenny 

Jem is born female but was made to like present as male by her father because presumably she wouldn't get into the profession that she is in or they are in. 

00:13:37 Jenny 

I'm not massively clear How forced that situation is. That is my issue with this book is it is a debut novel and I think it was kind of quite obviously a debut novel, so some things are a little bit kind of Like hazy. 

The plots a little bit clunky, but it's like this series of books there is 6 of them or something you follow this character Jem Flockhart. And I thought it was fun and like I said, the Victorian London is gross and it's really macabre and really grotty. 

But like the motivations of the main character really unclear, so I don't it got really slow and I kind of like this book shouldn't be slow, but I think 'cause the plot was murky. 

It just kind of it dragged in the middle, which was a shame. 

00:14:24 Jenny 

Uhm, the other thing I didn't like about it was that Jem Flockhart is described as having a birthmark across their face. I would have been OK with that if that had been presented as a positive thing, but it's not. 

It's like used like this grotesque characteristic that they have that I kind of felt like… I think that's fine for the person to have issues with how they look, then that's fine, but you'd expect some sort of character progression through that then, but there's not, so I don't really know why it was used. 

00:15:01 Jenny 

I thought it was a really odd choice. 

00:15:04 Jordaline 

Does the author like frame it in a way of? Of like the narration almost sees it as like a bad thing rather than it being like a neutral thing. 

00:15:14 Jenny 

No, I felt like it felt to me like the author…. 

00:15:20 Jenny 

I don't know why. I don't know why. this is the problem with the book. 

The author used it because they didn't use it as some sort of like acceptance thing that the people they meet in their life bring them to a point where they accept what they look like. 

I think it was just there and was supposed to be just this grotesque thing that was wrong with them. 

00:15:41 Jenny 

And I was like there's nothing wrong with having facial Disfigurement. I don't like where this book has taken that. 

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00:15:56 Jenny 

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00:17:35 Jenny 

So we're going to move on to our main topic of today's episode, and that is horror. 

00:17:40 Jenny 

And I was going to ask you. 

Probably a really awkward question, but how do you define horror? 

I know it. It's hard, I know that's not a nice question to ask. 

One that I can't answer. 

So I'm throwing it at you. 

00:17:55 Jordaline 

I think. 

00:17:57 Jordaline 

Horror is so I said this to you earlier. Multifaceted, there's so many varying levels to it immediately My first thought was that horror could be defined as anything that disturbs you or frightens you. 

But I think even that is too Like Broad, I think horror is anything that subverts that, like subverts itself, if that makes sense. 

I don't know if that makes sense. 

Do I know what I'm talking about, no. 

00:18:28 Jenny 

Sounds like you do. 

00:18:30 Jordaline 

Really, I was Like I left, these are fancy words so far. 

I, I think, though I think horror At its core is something that's, I guess, kind of like a cult, like kind of like a like a counterculture. 

Do you know what I mean? 

It subverts the norm. 

It subverts your expectations of keeping everything within this clean, pretty box. 

It can. Horror can be not frightening, not scary. Or horror can be like unsettling. 

Or horror can even just like be almost like a grotesque reflection of the current society that we live in. 

That's the way I see it. 

I mean, there are some authors or some people who write horror. 

Just, you know, for the Mon T of the doll and that's ******* fine. 

But I think I think the core of it. It works to call attention to or Bring to attention the misfit, the misshapen, the, the disturbing, the oddity. 

Do you Know what I mean? 

That's the way I see it. 

I could be completely ******* wrong. 

What the **** do I know? 

00:19:44 Jenny 

I think it's such a wide genre that is really hard to define. I don't think anybody would be able to define it, and so when my fellow Co hosts say that they don't like horror. I'm like you do and you read it. I know you read it. 

00:19:58 Jordaline 

Everybody reads it, even if you don't think you're reading horror, you're reading horror, yeah? 

00:20:02 Jenny 

And it's really easy to think that horror is Stephen King, Joe Hill, you know, and that is horror. 

00:20:06 Jordaline 

Yikes. 

00:20:10 Jenny 

There's a very specific type of horror I think, and I kind of like your Way of thinking about it. It's like it's almost a way of it's very escapist. 

I think that it's a way of reflecting on. On these really mundane things in life or feelings in life or anxieties in life, that's just quite removed. 

00:20:30 Jordaline 

Especially with things that you don't, people don't want to think about or talk about which, like death, for example, like there's so many genres within horror that deals explicitly with like body horror and gore and death and brutality. 

And sometimes it's just like for ******* fun. 

If you read like Jack Ketchum like Off Season or something. 

But if you read, but it can also be for like I think explorations and empathy. 

Uhm, like for example also Jack Ketchum. The girl next door. 

You know? 

00:21:04 Jenny 

Yeah, I haven't read that one. 

I don't think I ever will. 

00:21:07 Jordaline 

Don't yeah if you if you don't, if you don't Think you can handle it? Don't do it. 

00:21:12 Jenny 

Just don't do it. 

00:21:14 Jenny 

I think it's kind of like you say, especially to do with things like death And grief and all these sins there. 

00:21:19 Jenny 

Grief and all these things that As a society, we really struggle to actually talk about. 

It's quite a good way to deal with that kind of darker side of human nature. 

My God, this episode is turning into something I was not expecting. 

00:21:34 Jordaline 

Welcome to our true crime podcast. 

00:21:37 Jenny 

But yeah, I watch loads of. you'll realize as we go through this episode, I don't read as much as I watch like I watch loads of horror films, but I also watch loads of romantic comedy. 

I’m a Girl of two halves. But I think they're both in the same way. An Escape from your real everyday life, and I think that's. 

00:21:58 Jordaline 

100%. 

00:21:59 Jenny 

Healthy, I think. Delving into that darker side of. Stops you murdering people, frankly, so you know, I think it's healthy. 

00:22:14 Jenny 

There's different levels and We'll go on to talk about that. 

Yeah, I have my threshold. We'll talk about it in a little while, but I think everybody really reads horror without necessarily realizing. They're reading horror. 

00:22:27 Jordaline 

100%, even if you're reading like fantasy within that fantasy genre within like a book specifically there are horror elements? 

00:22:38 Jenny 

So Alice, who's a Co host on his podcast, she really loves a little life, have you Read that one. 

00:22:45 Jordaline 

Oh, yeh yikes. 

Yeah I have yeah. 

00:22:47 Jenny 

Now, I would argue that that actually is horror. 

It's such a horrific. 

00:22:52 Jenny 

It's horror. 

00:22:52 Jordaline 

Oh, just like Psyche, destroying. 

00:22:57 Jenny 

Distressing horror, I'm never going to read again. 

00:22:58 Jordaline 

She loves it? 

00:23:00 Jenny 

It is honestly one of her favorite books and I recommended it to her 'cause I read it and I hated it. But I knew that she'd like it. But I always have this conversation with her that I'm like. 

I think I think that's horror. 

It's disturbing. 

It's graphic. 

00:23:14 Jordaline 

It's really disturbing. 

Especially considering that it seems as though the author is just taking these characters and.  

Doing the whatever the **** she wanted to do to them without any question. 

Oh my God. 

It's like it's like it's like watching a car wreck in slow motion. 

00:23:33 Jenny 

So yes, there you go Alice. 

We talked about A Little Life without even meaning to do so. 

00:23:41 Jenny 

I thought the way we could kind of structure this episode is to go… I found a blog post that they were doing it for horror films where they were basically like OK entry level horror. Low level like how much you can tolerate at medium level. 

So I thought we could do that, but with books. 

So the first kind of category I've got is low level tolerance. 

And I would say this is probably for those people that say, well, I don't like horror. I don't read horror, but actually they probably do But maybe on the more literary fiction side of stuff. Or the darker side of things. 

Uhm, so yeah, would you like to go first with your kind of low level recommendation? 

00:24:24 Jordaline 

Of course, thank you so much. 

00:24:26 Jordaline 

So for this one. I thought I can't recommend them a horror novel because it might be too much. 

Might be too spooky. 

So one of my favorite, more like disturbing books is The Good People by Hannah Kent. 

I love it so much. 

The moment I read it I fell in love with Hannah Kent and like everything about her and her writing and this book in particular is so ******** but so gorgeous at the same time. 

Basically it's about this woman in the beginning of the novel we learned that her husband has died. 

He's like dead. He like got into an accident or something and you know, maybe it was like a heart attack. 

I can't remember, but he's dead and so she's left alone to care for her grandson. 

Now her daughter died a few months earlier and her grandson basically Changed so when she first met him he was like totally normal baby like talking, babbling like you know, like tipsy, drunk walking or Whatever, and then when she met him again after her daughter died and they had to take care of him, he could no longer speak, and his limbs are described as being like gnarled or like I guess stiff, and he can't walk or move. 

Really, he's Severely different and this is set in like the I think 1700s. I can't remember and so they're like they don't know what modern medicine is. So basically she ends up going to this woman. And she's like she's like your grandson has been taken by a changeling and they've left one of one of them, like in his place and she's like whaaat that's crazy. 

And then so basically, the novel tells a story of her trying to cope with caring for her grandson alone. 

Because it's A lot of ******* work and then also with her sort of descent into trying to cure him of this like changeling or like trying to get back her original grandson because she starts to believe that her grandson was in fact taken by fairies and they left one of their like, you know, grotesque Gnarled ones in his place, and it's so ****** ** 

So, gorgeous, it's disturbing, but beautiful. 

00:26:51 Jenny 

I own it. 

00:26:52 Jordaline 

You have to read it dude. 

00:26:53 Jenny 

That’s why I was Looking behind me. 

I bought it. so Sarah K, who's another co-host on this podcast. She really likes Hannah Kent and I have read Burial Rites by her totally loved it. 

00:27:03 Jordaline 

Awesome, amazing. 

00:27:06 Jenny 

Yeah again, now that you said that is. I did not know what that's what that book was about, and now I immediately want to. 

00:27:12 Jordaline 

Pick it up. 

00:27:14 Jordaline 

It's so good, trust me, oh. I love it so much. 

00:27:17 Jenny 

Yeah, and you're making me think about burial rites. 'cause that one's about a… The lady is about to be executed isn't she? 

00:27:24 Jordaline 

The last woman executed. 

00:27:26 Jenny 

And she goes to live with this family and it It's just following that situation but Again, it is that kind of dark, haunting, beautiful book, yeah? 

Yeah, yeah, that's a really good recommendation. 

00:27:42 Jordaline 

Thank you so much. 

00:27:44 Jenny 

So my one Might be slightly scarier than that, so apologies. 

I don't think it is, but it's a short story called the Yellow Wallpaper by Charlotte Perkins Gilman. 

00:27:55 Jenny 

Have you read this one? 

00:27:56 Jordaline 

Yes, a while ago. 

00:27:57 Jenny 

Uhm, yes, so it's really short. 

It's oh God, I should have written the date. 

It was written a long time ago, which means it's out of copyright. 

So you can.You can just find it online to read. 

But it's about.A woman, a woman descent into madness essentially, and she's taken away by her husband to their summer home. 

And from a 21st century readers perspective, she's quite clearly suffering from post Natal depression. 

But she's prescribed bed rest by her husband, who I think is a doctor. 

00:28:32 Jenny 

He must be think it's her husband. 

And he’s like you need to go to bed and I'm gonna shut you in your room and you're gonna just rest. 

'cause that's what you Need, but really it's just a way of Him controlling her like she's not allowed to read, and she's not allowed to do her artwork. 

And I don't think she's allowed to write like she's not allowed to do anything. 

She's just allowed to rest, and funny enough This does not make her better. 

This makes her worse and It's a really good kind of portrayal into somebody slowly sort of losing their mind and The imagery in it is quite. 

It's not overly scary, but it is quite disturbing so it's like patterned wallpaper in her room that she starts seeing. 

Seeing like imagery in and it starts moving and she starts seeing these quite disturbing patterns in. 

It, but the very final scene in that short story. And I don't want to spoil it, and I think this is always a good sign like a good Horror Story or good horror novel is that that image has really lasted with me. 

And even if I hadn't remembered the rest of the story, the fact that This final scene, really I can still picture it really vividly. 

I think that's a really good, like a sign of a really good Horror Story, but it isn't terrifying, and I think if you can. Yeah, and its short, read it on a lunch break at daytime. 

Uhm, but yeah, like we were saying, it's a really kind Of clever way. Exploring… well post Natal depression in this in this particular one. 

Yeah so that's my one so we're going to go up a level a little bit and I've gone medium to low level tolerance. 

Now I kind of categorize this as. 

I really worry that my gauge of what is scary is just completely skewed, so I'm sorry. 

I kind of went with maybe someone can cope with a little bit of gore. 

Nothing too scary and they might be able to watch. 

Shaun of the dead, for example because it's. 

It's funny, but gross stuff happens in it. 

That's what I've gone with low to medium level. 

There's probably people that like - I can not watch Sean of The dead 'cause it's so disgusting. 

00:30:47 Jordaline 

Honestly, I hate zombies, so when I read like Shaun of the Dead I was like. 

Oh, that's that's a really scary movie. 

I'm terrified. 

00:30:57 Jenny 

The other example I'd written down was Anna and the Apocalypse, which is another zombie movie. 

Clearly I was just like.Clearly I think zombie movies are tame. 

You can go lower level than a zombie movie, that's fine. 

00:31:12 Jordaline 

So for this one I chose Crossroads by Laurel Hightower. 

I don't know if You've read it. 

00:31:20 Jenny 

I haven't read it, but like it's on my radar, I really want to get to it. 

00:31:27 Jordaline 

This, I thought would be good because it's similar. 

It's similar almost actually to what you were describing, where the ending is like this big shocking moment and then the rest of the book is like a very like slow, slow burn. 

Slow buildup to this like huge thing and it's almost like. 

It's almost like a car accident like you know what's coming. 

You know what's going to happen? 

You can just you. 

You know that this character is desperate. But you still can't not read it. You still can't look away. 

Basically, it's about this woman. 

Her son died a year. 

Everyone actually dies. 

00:32:08 Jenny 

They probably all die. 

00:32:12 Jordaline 

Uh, her son died like a year ago. 

And she has been completely bereft like she can't come to terms with her grief. 

She can't come to terms with his with his death, the loss, and so she finds. 

I think almost by mistake she basically finds out that she can communicate with him through this like crossroads. 

And so, as the book goes on, she gives more and more and more, and this thing or her son takes more and more and more. 

And the last page of the book. 

Had me so ****** ** 

Like it's the most. 

It's it's almost like shocking. 

It is shocking. 

But in like a really sad ******** way, the one that will leave your skin like tingling because it's so like 'cause it's almost. Gross, but also not gross. 

I don't know. 

It's so good it's not. It's not like super spooky. 

It's not even scary, but it is the last scene in the book is one that still haunts me today. 

00:33:22 Jenny 

Yeah, it does sound similar to the one I was talking about. 

I think even I don't know if it's technically been released in the UK, so I think it's still like really expensive. 

I think that's why I haven't bought it now 'cause it's a novella, isn't it? 

It's not long? 

00:33:37 Jordaline 

No, yeah it's like like 100 pages. 

Uhm, it's published by Off Limits Press, which is Samantha Kolesnik's Publishing house press. 

00:33:50 Jenny 

Right, so I think my gauge is off. 

I'm really sorry if this someone reads this now and is like Jenny - What did you recommend to me? 

So my next recommendation for medium to low level tolerance is Carmilla by J. Sheridan Le Fanu, if you read this one again, this is quite old and this is like Victorian vampire literature. 

So it's a Victorian vampire novella. 

Was written prior to Dracula coming out. 

There's a big inspiration for Dracula and it starts with a carriage crash, not a car crash or carriage crash that happens outside this home. 

I don't think it's a castle or I think im getting my stories mixed up I think. 

It's outside this stately home and they take in the Daughter, so it's a mother and a daughter. 

They're in this accident and they take the daughter in. 

I don't know in what scenario that would happen, but this is what happens and this girl is beautiful. 

She's called Carmilla and we follow the main protagonist who's called Laura and Laura used to have this dream when she was younger About a young girl crawling into bed with her and she actually realizes that's who that is. 

She doesn't understand why she's drawn to Camilla. 

Like emotionally and kind of sexually as well. 

And she she's starting to get weaker and weaker and she's having really vivid dreams. 

You know it's ultimately a vampire story, and I think All the sort of tropes of Lesbian vampires came from this book and it's really interesting to read something that predates Dracula because you can see how this influenced like vampire stories forever more. 

They come from this book. 

But there's bits in it. 

And now I think this is too scary For this level, I'm really sorry. 

Uhm, there's bits in it that I remember being really quite creepy, and I'm thinking hold on when Was this written? 

I mean, Dracula is quite scary in places from memory and let me just look at when this was written. 

1871 but there’s bits in it that are really quite scary, so that the scene where she crawls into bed with her. It's not like a sexy I'm going to crawl into bed with you. It's like up from underneath covers like towards her. 

I think at one point she's like leaning over her in bed and all those things that are quite scary and ultimately She's a vampire, so they find her coffin and they kill her. 

But the bit where they reveal her in her coffin again is just a scene that really stayed with me 'cause I think she's like in like submerged in blood and they can just see like a heart beating in there and then they drive a stake into her heart. 

So they kill her like you would kill a vampire. 

But it's really good. 

I just I brought the cover to show you. 

Can you see that? 

00:37:03 Jordaline 

Oh, that's so cute. 

00:37:04 Jenny 

It's like a black and then red cover with these amazing bat illustrations. 

00:37:10 Jenny 

But yeah it's not very long it's 130 pages or something. 

So, and it's really, really good, it's illustrated. 

00:37:18 Jordaline 

I need to read that. 

00:37:23 Jenny 

She's very naked in this picture. 

00:37:26 Jordaline 

Oh, OK, honestly, I would love to just bathe In blood. 

00:37:32 Jenny 

Be in a coffin of blood. 

00:37:35 Jenny 

Yeah, I mean the pictures in this book now I've opened it are a little bit Kind of salacious. 

I don't think it's as salacious as the illustrations in there are making it out to be. 

I say not as sexual as it's made out to be, but I think it's quite. 

It's not salacious. 

I think it it is quite like exploratory And sexy, so I thought it's fantastic and I'm not one. 

To like vampire stories, I find the trope of Finding the male vampire absolutely irresistible A little bit tiresome. 

00:38:10 Jordaline 

Honestly, let's just like abolish men who are vampires like, let's get rid of them. 

00:38:16 Jenny 

Yeah, let's get back to these. 

00:38:18 Jordaline 

Like let's just have lesbian vampires, that's all I've ever wanted. 

00:38:22 Jenny 

But not for the male gaze, 'cause that's what's happened is like the whole lesbian vampire thing is just become something that men. 

00:38:27 Jordaline 

No no. 

00:38:29 Jenny 

You know, find titillating. 

Read Carmilla is very very good. 

But now I worry it's A bit too scary so. 

00:38:42 Jenny 

So the next level we've got, is medium tolerance. 

So as an example, as of a film I wrote Get Out now, I don't find that film scary, but I've just got a feeling that some people might do so. 

00:38:53 Jordaline 

No, it's not. 

00:38:56 Jenny 

Uhm, that's what I kind of think. If someone was like, recommend me a horror film. 

I can't watch anything too scary. 

I think you'd cope with Get Out, so this is the level I was thinking for medium tolerance level. 

00:39:10 Jordaline 

So for this one I don't know a lot of people I was. 

Kind of I was a little bit. 

Unsure, choosing the medium one 'cause some people with this book think it's really ******** really gory, really like you know, horrific. 

But however, when I read it I thought it was pretty tame. 

So I think I might be in the Same camp as You where I like. I'm just like delusional and I don't understand like what's medium? 

But I've chosen True Crime by Samantha Kolesnick, so that's the thing some people call this, like splatterpunk. 

And I don't think it's splatterpunk. 

At least from my definition of splatterpunk. 

Which would be like very gratuitous Violence and body, horror and gore. 

But true crime is basically about this girl. 

OK, I'm about to describe this and it's literally going to be like. 

Obviously that's really ******** and should probably be higher up, but. 

Trust me, it's about this girl she's sexually and physically abused by her mother and one day her mother, you know, is like abusing her or whatever and she grabs like an ashtray and just bashes her ******* brains in basically. 

And then her brother comes home and he's like the **** happened, she's dead and she's like she's not dead You're going to have to finish the job though. 

Like ******* strangler dude, and so he's like, OK. 

So he finishes the job. 

He pops her ******* neck and then they run away together. 

Her and her brother. 

And the book is basically about what happens afterwards while they're on the run. 

I think for me, I think I think for me this book. 

Also reaches into like the literary sort of camp as well, because it's so mind boggling and like introspective like I read this, I think a few weeks after I read Dead Inside by Chandler **** your pants, Morrison and I. 

And this book to me Communicated and executed. 

I think what Chandler ******* wishes he could do *****. 

00:41:41 Jenny 

We won’t tag that book in the show notes. 

00:41:47 Jordaline 

Samantha Kolesnik has this commentary about the female body and the main character. 

I think her name Is Susie actually? 

Susie is so deeply uncomfortable with being female because. 

I think I mean obviously because her mother abuses her because she's a girl. 

Men abuse her because she's a girl. 

People look down on her because she's a girl and so she's deeply uncomfortable with the idea that she is inherently a sexual being, and so at multiple points in the book, she talks about like cutting off her ****. 

And like and like you know, presenting herself like less as a girl and like flattening out her existence so that she will no longer be subject or be subjected to abuse from other people because of her gender. 

And the way she executes it, and the way that Susie has these Like moments of her narration is just gorgeous and like the most like some of the most beautiful feminist thought in fiction I've ever ******* seen. 

And I think Literally everyone should read it. 

It's gorgeous. It's kind of. 

******** obviously, but I think it's also really like smart. 

Like a smart ***** book. 

00:43:05 Jenny 

I have seen this, Being talked about but not read it. 

00:43:08 Jordaline 

You have to read it. 

00:43:10 Jenny 

Yeah, you've definitely Sold that to me. 

00:43:14 Jordaline 

Literally, you're going to end this and like, just like add to cart, add to cart. 

00:43:19 Jenny 

Yes! 

Looking at my next recommendation, I wonder if I should have swapped the last one around, so let's just maybe take From me now, is that maybe read this one as your low medium tolerance and Carmilla for medium tolerance but the next one and I'm pretty sure I've talked about this one on the podcast before. 

Is Things We Say in the Dark by Kirsty Logan. 

So this is a short story collection Set in three parts, the first part. 

They're all stories about home, and the second part is all stories about motherhood and the third part is like experimental fiction that she's written. 

And it's a collection that won’t Be for everyone. It's quite different from Kirsty Logan's prior work. She writes sort of Literary fantasy slash horror I guess it's quite hard to define what genre she writes in 'cause it's it's quite a mix of stuff, really. 

Uhm, I guess she's marketed as like a literary fiction writer, but this collection talks about Pregnancy, labor, all those things that As women we're almost scared to talk about and not just as women. 

Actually, you know some of the stuff at home and not having a home not belonging somewhere. 

And it's kind of a universal thing, isn't it? 

She just has this really great way of tapping into those Secret fears or the fears that we don't like to vocalize and then make this incredible short story about them. 

So I just think it's a really really good collection and there's a few sort of. 

There's a few hit and miss. 

I guess that. I mean that's the same with any collection. 

I bet I can't recall every single story in it. 

I think is about 20 stories in it, but the ones I can remember. 

Are like so Good and so burned into my brain. 

I'm sure there's one about A pregnancy, but like the woman doesn't actually give birth, this baby is just kind of growing and growing and growing inside her. 

Yeah, that is kind of like I know it's an irrational fear, but it's a. 

It's a realistic one. 

Actually when you're kind of an anxious. 

Personally, I was certainly an anxious pregnant person. 

I didn't have that particular fear, but I understand the kind of irrational fears that pregnancy can manifest. 

00:45:59 Jordaline 

And what if it doesn't come out? 

00:46:01 Jenny 

And it does keep growing. 

I don't know. 

I mean, I know realistically that's not gonna happen, but… 

Robin, my daughter did not Fit out the normal way, so I mean back in the olden days, who knows what would have happened? 

But yeah, I think it's a really great collection and some of them are very scary, which is why I thought like medium level with a short story collection means you could skip some of them. 

Like if you find it too frightening, just move on to the next one, it's fine. 

There's one about a phone that keeps ringing, so I'm sure this is a fear that lots of people share about, like Answering a phone, or maybe that's what she's tapping into, is that fear of having phone conversations? 

But this short story is about, I think it's a man whose house phone is ringing and when he picks it up. 

It's just like this Horrible noise or this scary voice down the other end of the phone and it stems from the fact that when he was younger His little brother went missing and he was put in charge of making sure that the phone was answered in case it was the police, like phoning to give them an update and so naturally he just became terrified of answering the phone. 

I'm like, Oh yeah, it's really creepy. 

So yes, some of them are great, some of them are really scary, but I think it's a really clever collection that Yeah, reflecting on those things we’re Embarrassed maybe to vocalize. 

So our next level feel like maybe we're safe once we get past these ones, we can. 

Talk about some Slightly more messed up. 

Oh, and the other thing I wrote down for that one, and I definitely have talked about this on the podcast before is another short story collection called. 

Things we lost in the fire by Mariana Enriquez 'cause that one's like a. She's an Argentinian writer, very much reflects on. I think it's Buenos Aires. 

I think that's where it's set and it just reflects on society and those ones are quite scary and and quite gross. 

So that one is a little bit of a step up from the Kirsty Logan. 

00:48:17 Jenny 

Yes, we're going to move on to Medium high level now. 

I wrote likes The Shining question Mark or The Ring. 

I think those films are quite scary. 

I certainly wouldn't get somebody to watch the ring if they don't Like horror films. 

00:48:33 Jordaline 

When I read Uhm, shining the ring. 

I, my first thought was like those are not scary movies. 

00:48:44 Jenny 

I find it so hard to gauge what People will find scary, right? 

I don't think they are either. 

00:48:50 Jordaline 

But I think what it is though for me is I didn't watch the ring until like last year. 

I had never seen it as like a as like a teenager or kid. 

So I think that's why I'm not afraid of it. 

Is 'cause like I'm like, OK, cool like I've already seen it. 

00:49:05 Jenny 

By today's standards That probably isn't as scary. 

I can’t think of a modern day equivalent of like a scary film. 

I'm just numb to it. 

This is the problem. 

00:49:18 Jordaline 

I guess I I feel as though I think Midsommar is like a good medium, high 'cause it's not too spooky. 

But it's still pretty spooky. 

00:49:29 Jenny 

Or his other one. 

00:49:31 Jordaline 

Hereditary correct, so I would put as high scary 'cause that movie FCK me. 

00:49:34 Jenny 

Oh right? 

00:49:36 Jordaline 

I was terrified of that movie. 

00:49:41 Jenny 

Yeah, don't watch his films if you're Not keen on horror. 

00:49:44 Jordaline 

Yeah, if you don't like horror, don't watch those. 

00:49:46 Jenny 

Right you do your… where are we? 

Where are we medium to high? 

00:49:50 Jordaline 

Medium to high. 

So for this one I have The Good House by Tananarive Due honestly. 

This could even be like medium to be honest, but. 

Uh, it's basically A wonderful haunted house haunted town Kind of book. 

It's very. It feels reminiscent of Stephen King. But if Stephen King was dumb. Like not Stephen King like if it was better, kind of. 

No tea, no shade. 

A better version of Stephen King. 

Yeah, it Tananarive's writing is very similar to Stevens. 

And it kind of sets up the same like kind of vibe, but it feels as though there's like More depth to it. 

Basically, it's what this woman whose son commits suicide. 

Everyone dies. 

I'm seeing a pattern. 

Her son commits suicide, of course, as a mother, she's like completely inconsolable about this, but she moves away from her hometown. 

She goes to New York, she restarts her life basically. 

And then it's five years later, and she's brought back to her hometown. 

I think quite randomly to be honest, I don't think there's anything really important there, but she just goes back. 

And she begins to. Like weird **** starts happening. 

Uhm, and she begins to sort of unravel the mystery of like what exactly happened to her son. 

What led up to her son killing himself, and I guess, kind of like vanquishing whatever is still left in her house and in her town. 

What I love about this. 

Is that it like mixes the haunted house? 

The Gothic sort of feeling with Like witches. 

And I'm always. 

I'm always talking about how I want more witches in horror. 

00:51:52 Jenny 

Love a witchy book. 

00:51:53 Jordaline 

Love, which is I always want more so I love that tananarive due like combines them both because it has this sort of like witchy magic feeling along with like this really like malevolent and this like evil presence that's like in the town and it is spooky Dookie, dookie and 

Just go get it like one of the best haunted house books of all time like period. 

00:52:20 Jenny 

Oh, it sounds… it's on my like TBR and Goodreads But now I wanna like  

00:52:27 Jordaline 

you can move it to the Top of the list. 

It's so good. I love her. 

I love tananarive due so much. 

She is literally an icon. 

00:52:36 Jenny 

I didn't realize it was witchy this is what I mean. 

What are marketing people doing? 

I'm like right, witchen up your blurb and you had it sold to me straight away. 

00:52:46 Jordaline 

Literally literally like just hire me. 

I will sell your ******* book, please. 

Yeah, give me money. 

Give us money. We'll do it. 

00:52:57 Jenny 

We'll do it, yeah. 

My medium to high now I don't. 

This is one of those ones that. 

I don't think people would necessarily classify as horror, but I think it's horrifying, so I would classify as horror and I was looking back through my books today and I haven't read this for years, so I was like I don't know what I'm going to recommend for this category. 

I was literally looking. 

But I'm going to go with Blindness by Jose Saramago. 

I read this. Oh it could well have been like 10 years ago. It was written in 1995. My gosh. 

And it's about and it's making me think I should reread it now, 'cause it's about a mass epidemic that causes blindness and it afflicts like a whole city. 

And the book is kind of mainly about the social breakdown that that then causes and the government tried to contain the widespread panic and the social disorder that this caused by taking more and more drastic and extreme actions in order To like repress. 

I mean, they definitely end up in some kind of like prison. 

Prison Slash concentration style camp, type 

and we follow. I think a doctor and his wife who isn't blind but I think she pretends to be so like they know they're going to be sent to this prison. 

So she pretends to be blind, so she goes as well and the like social dynamic of how the Prison sort of works. It's really fascinating, like the kind of gang culture that's Materialized in there. 

I mean, all these books come with trigger warnings but like this  has a lot of Rape in it. 

'cause it's it's not a nice book by any measure. 

It's incredibly graphic and brutal but it's really sat with me and I really. 

I've reread my review from like 10 years ago I think I've like Grown up a lot since I wrote that 'cause. 

I was like, oh God, the rape is ****** awful, and of course it is, but I think it's necessary and he doesn't use punctuation and he doesn't use names. And I wrote in my review that that really annoys me. 

But I Think I've kind Of grown up and read a Lot more since then, and I understand that probably not using names just added to that chaotic feel to the book. 

And it's also a film which I do have, I have a feeling Mark Ruffalo is in it, and as with these things. 

The film is a lot tamer, so you could Just watch the film. 

But it is a great book, but it is Disturbing, so I think. 

Yes, I recommend it, but I also don't recommend it. 

00:55:47 Jordaline 

I didn't, I knew of it, I had no idea though, that it was about an epidemic or a pandemic. 

00:55:52 Jenny 

Umm, I think I kind of forgotten that bit. 

00:55:55 Jordaline 

Yeah, I though I don't like the fact that there's no grammar 'cause I think I bought his other book. 

I think it was like I think he published it after blindness was called like deathless or something. 

I can't remember. 

It was about like the grim Reaper or something and I tried reading it so many times. 

And I could not because there was no grammar. 

And it I mean, I I I drive it, drove me nuts. I think I'm still the same so I don't know if I could ever read it. 

It's I don't know. 

Maybe the Audiobook, actually, but yeah. 

00:56:24 Jenny 

Yeah, yeah, I did read another review today though. 

About the audiobook and I think it was even harder work. 

so yeah, it's it's one of those books that I do recommend, but I don't recommend 'cause It's not a nice book. 

00:56:39 Jordaline 

Doesn't seem easy to read either. 

00:56:41 Jenny 

No, then it yeah, it's hard. 

00:56:43 Jenny 

Work so yeah, but it's good. So yeah, hard one. 

OK, so our last level. 

Our highest level I've written high, and then I've written scariest book you've ever read. 

So maybe this ones. 

Mine isn't scary, so do what you will with it. 

00:57:04 Jordaline 

I've written down one book, but as I'm sitting here thinking about it pondering what's the scariest book? 

I'm like conflicted. 

I'm I'm going to have two answers. 

00:57:19 Jenny 

Do it. 

There is no rules today. 

00:57:21 Jordaline 

Even if there were, I'm going to break some. 

So what I have written down is No One Gets Out Alive by Adam Neville. 

No one gets out alive by Adam Neville is. 

A Seminole classic, and like a spooky, spooky scary book about a girl named Stephanie. 

She moves into this house and the landlord is like hey, yeah it's like totally cheap and You can have your own room. 

You know, there's like other girls. 

Here it's all like cool. 

You can just come here and Kiki or whatever. 

Everything is great and the rent is like dirt cheap so she's like **** yeah but she gets there. 

She realizes that. 

There are no other ******* people there except for the landlord, so it's just her and having this giant house her first night there, she hears somebody scratching under her bed, whispering, coming from within the walls. 

And feels like the room has lost all warmth and it's just completely I see and from there it's just this huge struggle of think and again like again, this is kind of like a smart ***** book or whatever, or like I'm making it a smart book, but like I feel as though it like perfectly. 

Illustrates the like. 

How difficult and how almost impossible it is to claw your way out of poverty. 

Like as a poor ***** like I get it like I could like relate to Stephanie because she is consistently trying to get out. 

Get out of this house so that she can, like you know, not be haunted, and then also not have to deal with her ****** like landlord. 

But she is consistently just like knocked down Again and again and again because she doesn't have the resources because she doesn't know the right people because she doesn't have the right job to to like leave and find A safer situation. 

Not only that, but it it deals explicitly with like sex work and how women specifically are like exploited. 

Within like sex work, yeah it's almost. 

I mean I don't know. 

It's kind of like a feminist book. 

But also I don't want to give Adam Neville too much credit because I don't know if that's what he was going for, but I read it as very like a bad ***** you know, girlboss gatekeep energy. 

But like in a good way. 

OK. 

Loved it, loved it so much. 

10 out of 10. 

So the second one that I want to talk about, one that I've. 

Been like sort. 

Of like brewing in the back of my mind is Off Season by get by Jack Ketchum. 

So I'm choosing this not because it's not because it's especially like scary like that. 

Something scary is subjective. 

I'm scared of the things like no one gets out of live where it's like spooky ghosts and like this feeling of like being trapped and claustrophobic. 

However, I'm not really that scared of like slasher cannibals. 

Try to eat me, you know? 

Don't have to worry about that Usually in my everyday life you know. 

However, men I do, I do kind of fear. 

So you know now we get to the light was kind of relatable In that way, but again, it's all perspective. 

I don't know, maybe some of you live out like in the you know middle **** nowhere and you're like cannibals are everywhere in the trees. 

01:00:44 Jenny 

They're a real threat. 

I always joke that out of all the hundreds of Horror films I've Watched…. have you seen the TV series Luther would you Get that in Canada? 

01:00:58 Jordaline 

Is that the one with some? 

01:01:00 Jenny 

God, just everything's out my head Idris Elba, Idris Elba. 

Is  the main guy in it. 

He's like a detective but the scariest thing I’ve ever Watched is season three of Luther, 'cause it's bloody terrifying because the killer that he's trying to catch like he hides and in women homes. 

And there's just this one. 

The first episode, I think starts and she's getting ready in her room and. 

But this woman is Suddenly you get the perspective from underneath her bed and you see her getting ready and she sits on the bed and she gets in bed. 

01:01:37 

Oh, Yikes. 

01:01:38 Jenny 

She's lying in bed and then from underneath the bed you just see someone like pull out and I was like this is The scariest thing I've ever watched in my entire life and it was Luther which is on the BBC. 

01:01:49 Jordaline 

Absolutely not. 

01:01:50 Jenny 

Fear is definitely different for everybody. 

01:01:54 Jordaline 

Home invasion. 

My worst nightmare. 

01:01:57 Jenny 

yeah no. I'm terrified  

Any home invasion then Can't deal. 

01:02:03 Jordaline 

Off Season is I think the goriest book I've ever read it does not hold back at all. 

It is graphic. 

And disturbing. 

And almost like by the end of the book, I almost felt numb to it like there was so much gore that by the end of the novel I literally felt like OK, and so she just got her ******* leg chopped off with like a dull axe. 

Who cares? 

Like let's go, oh they're they're literally murdering children. 

Great, that's what's next like. 

I like, it's one of those books that almost like desensitizes you. 

But it's so. 

What like the moments the moment. 

The book starts like when the cannibals show up, it is nothing but like fast paced like action, action, Action, Gore, Gore, Gore. 

You know eating human flesh. 

It's so ****** ** so fun. 

I don't think it's necessary like scary, but I think it's shocking without being like salacious or like too too much you know or like he's trying too hard. 

It's literally like a classic. 

01:03:22 Jenny 

I haven't tried any of his books. 

I think I've really heard of. 

Is it the girl next door? 

Because that was based on a true story. 

01:03:31 Jordaline 

Yeah, Wilkins is that her name? 

01:03:44 Jenny 

I think if you haven't really heard of him, then that ends up what you've heard of that he's written this kind of book based on a true crime, and he shouldn't have done that. 

I definitely won't read that one, but the one you're talking about. 

01:03:59 Jordaline 

Yeah, if you, especially if you're like wanting to try like ******** gore, but you're like afraid to go like off the deep end you know I feel like it's like a safe Gory book 'cause there are other books sort of like come The Resurrectionists where there are so many like elements that are added into it with like like rape and in like sexual assault and like this like kind of creepy ******** thing with like animal torture and stuff. 

Meanwhile Off Season is literally just like. 

A bunch of hillbilly cannibals looking to **** you up like there's no. 

They're not killing cats, no one getting raped. 

Or are they? 

I can't remember don't trust me On that one, actually look that up. 

So my one. 

01:04:48 Jenny 

It's also not scary and after everything Jordaline just said I'm just going to warn you all now that my one does have lots of rape in it and Again, it's it's not that I like reading things like that. 

I really, really don't. 

It's a very good book That I'm going to talk about. 

But I'm never going I. I haven't even finished It so this is. 

Totally so uhm. 

I am talking about American Psycho. 

By what's his name is Brett Easton Ellis. 

01:05:20 Jordaline 

Bret Easton Ellis 

01:05:25 Jenny 

So again, it's not scary. 

It is the most grotesque book I have ever read in my entire life and not that I've particularly read lots 'cause it's not something I seek out. 

Have you read it? 

01:05:38 Jordaline 

I tried. 

I tried reading it and I couldn't. 

The like the amount of, just like meandering, and I get it. 

It's like part of the experience and like consumer culture and you know capitalism. 

Too much. 

But like also like just ******* kill me dude. 

I don't wanna have to sit here in 15 minutes like, uh, I got I got **** to do. 

01:05:58 Jenny 

Yeah, so I haven't finished it. It's on my shelf of like 3/4 of the way through, which is the most annoying bit like I really should finish it. 

But but I think everybody kind of knows what it's about. 

It's about Patrick Bateman who works on Wall Street and he's this charming, Gorgeous, UM, what's? 

What's the guy who plays him in the film? 

Oh Christopher… Christian Bale. 

01:06:20 Jenny 

Christian Bale, who I don't find attractive, but in that film I'm like yeah I kind of get it now he's intelligent. 

He's also a complete psychopath and He seems… Or does he murder people in his spare time? 

Basically a satire of that whole kind of Wall Street, upper class misogynistic male UM that I guess people strove to be in like the 80s early 90s. 

There's probably still people who do put Patrick Bateman on a pedestal now, but It is like a satirical. 

Commentary on that and it is funny. 

It's the blackest humor you'll ever read in your entire life. 

But it is funny and. 

but I can see what you mean by actually some of it's a chore to get through, like there's an entire chapter dedicated to his love of a particular Phil Collins record. 

Yeah, it's that sort of thing like it's not. 

It's hard work. 

And then to break up chapters like that. 

You get these horrendous. Like really horrendous graphic murders, rapes that happen. 

It's not a pleasant book, and it's definitely one that I'm like. 

It's good, but I'm not recommending to you, but kind of am because I’m talking about it. 

We said the scariest Most gross books we've read and that is the most horrible one I've ever read. 

01:07:55 Jordaline 

Does he? 

Does he murder prostitutes? 

I haven't seen the movie in a while. 

01:07:59 Jenny 

Yeah he. 

01:07:59 Jordaline 

Yeah OK. 

01:08:00 Jordaline 

And then he rapes them. 

01:08:02 Jenny 

He does horrible things to them. 

Uhm, so yeah, don't read that one If you can't kind of cope with that level of violence. 

And I'd say it's almost the opposite to what you're saying with the like Jack Ketchum book. 

Well, almost. 

That's kind of like almost kind of fun Like extreme violence. 

01:08:22 Jordaline 

It's almost like an adventure. 

01:08:23 Jenny 

Yeah, whereas with this one it's kind of nothing fun about it. 

01:08:26 Jordaline 

I took a smart approach. 

01:08:27 Jenny 

I do worry about UM. 

01:08:32 Jordaline 

Bret Easton Ellis 

01:08:34 Jenny 

Yeah, like I'm glad you wrote this ‘cause God knows what you'd have done in real life if you didn't Have an outlet but I would say that the film is fantastic and the film almost. 

01:08:43 Jordaline 

Such a good movie. 

01:08:47 Jenny 

Because they could never have made that book into a film, it would have to be on the dark web somewhere for anyone to watch it. 

Uhm, they've taken like the best bits from that book. 

The funny bits, so there's a bit where they compare business cards and Patrick Bateman is getting really stressed out and like sweaty and anxious because all his colleagues have got these business cards and they're all like I don't know. 

Gold embossed and made out of like the finest paper. 

And when they compared them all, they're all exactly the same, so it's just. 

It is really funny and like the kills in that are just good fun like Jared Leto like gets with an axe. 

01:09:30 Jenny 

Yes, the film is fantastic. 

The book is. 

Yeah, I don't need to finish it. 

But it's baiting me HA! Bate from over there, so maybe I've only got like 100 pages to go, but I feel like the last scenes in it involves rats and someone like, yeah, it's the most gross bit of the book. I'm like, oh maybe I don't know. 

01:09:46 

You should Do it. 

01:09:58 Jenny 

Don't know that wasn't in the film, so that probably Says it all. 

But there we go. 

I think we've been through our lowest level to our highest level horror. 

01:10:11 Jordaline 

But honestly, like really great lists, I think. 

We both. 

I mean we both misunderstood but. 

01:10:20 Jenny 

Completely like this, ranking system was just nonsense. 

But I was going to ask you, 'cause I suspected we would both do this. 

What are your sort Of who are your favorite horror writers? 

'cause I know that I've talked about them before and I'm aware that I talk about them to death that I purposely didn't talk about them today, so I'm wondering like have you covered your favorite horror writers? 

Or if you've got some that you didn't mention? 

01:10:50 Jordaline 

One of my favorite people who's ever lived is Michael McDowell. 

He is our gay icon. 

He is no longer with us. 

Unfortunately, he died in the 90s. 

But his Southern Gothic fiction Is so beautiful, so gruesome and I think. 

I would say that some of his work is good for like entry level, sort of low level beginners. 

Some of his work, not so much like some of it's kind of ******** Pretty gruesome, but. 

He is such a beautiful writer was such a beautiful writer. 

His books are gorgeous. 

They're gory, they're compelling. 

They have this beautiful atmosphere where you feel as though you're truly in the South of America and it's just. 

He's just so gorgeous. 

I love him so much. 

We read The Amulet, didn't we for book club? 

That was one of the ones that we all enjoyed. 

01:11:46 Jordaline 

yeah, so good. 

Such a good book. 

01:11:49 Jenny 

Yeah, and actually some of his social commentary considering he was writing in. 

Yeah, well that one was like very late 70s, wasn't it? 

01:11:57 Jordaline 

Yeah, I think yeah. 

01:11:57 Jenny 

You couldn't think, yeah, you were Ahead of your time, so yeah. 

01:12:00 Jordaline 

He was, such an icon. 

01:12:04 Jenny 

I agree, I need to read more from him Now you've got me on to him. 

01:12:08 Jordaline 

You have to. 

01:12:09 Jenny 

The ones that I've kind of missed off 'cause I do talk about them a lot on here. 

Are, Shirley Jackson, who I love uhm. 

01:12:14 Jordaline 

Love her 

01:12:17 Jenny 

I think any Of her stuff is probably the entry level Scale of stuff and 

And Daphne Du Maurier, I think She really hits that kind of Gothic, spooky vibe without ever kind of venturing into anything too scary like their imagery is always great. 

01:12:31 Jordaline 

Can I confess something? 

I own Rebecca. 

I think I own actually like 2 copies of her book. 

And I've never read it. 

I've tried to read it and I literally I don't know what the **** It is something in Me just like it's just like OK at this Point we're going to stop and then that's it. 

I need to read it. 

01:12:59 Jenny 

Rebecca is not my favorite one of hers. 

I really Jamaica Inn. 

I think that one is more. 

It's got a darker kind of edge to it. 

I really like that one. 

She's definitely entry level. 

But don't even know she really verges on entry level. 

She's almost kind of like. 

01:13:16 Jordaline 

Like thriller mystery. 

01:13:21 Jenny 

And then there's kind of the really popular ones. 

Like we didn't talk about Stephen King, but I have read a lot Of his stuff. 

01:13:26 Jordaline 

Yeah, I mean his older stuff is really really good. 

I love It. 

01:13:32 Jenny 

Yes, I liked It and I like The Shining. 

You want to read his stuff when he was in a really bad place 'cause he wrote some really good. 

01:13:37 Jordaline 

Yeah, literally coked up Stephen King is the best Stephen King. 

01:13:37 Jenny 

when he was off his face on drugs. 

01:13:43 Jordaline 

Like good for him for being sober, but also his high shit Is so good. 

A Little bit ******** 'cause the end of It. 

Where they all **** As children is a little weird, but. 

01:13:52 Jenny 

Oh yeah, I could do without that. 

Yeah, I could definitely leave that bit and he did have a habit of doing stuff like that, but. 

01:13:56 Jordaline 

Besides that? 

01:14:00 Jenny 

Yeah, he's yeah he's good fun. 

Yeah, so I think we’ve come to the end. 

Thank you so much for joining me. 

And where can people find you online? 

01:14:15 Jordaline 

I mean, I've never done that, so should be so fine. 

I've never like shouted out Myself, whatever, so you're inviting. 

01:14:21 Jenny 

Can you remember your handles? 

01:14:23 Jordaline 

Yeah, like I like look at my hand. 

Like a full idiot. 

So you can find me at Jordaline Reads on YouTube. Or you can just find me on Instagram  @Jordaline that’s it. 

01:14:42 Jenny 

Amazing, you got that handle now. 

01:14:46 Jordaline 

Yeah, I mean 'cause I got it like like when it was just like my personal Instagram. 

Yeah, before anyone knew who I was. You know now I have 5 fans. 

01:14:59 Jenny 

No, that's amazing. 

Thank you so much. 

Yeah, and I hope you. I hope you'll join us again At some point, yeah, this is so fun. 

01:15:05 Jenny 

I mean, I might need you again next year, 'cause I still suspect no one is gonna talk to me about horror. 

01:15:10 Jordaline 

So honestly, let's just force it on them like it's just. 

01:15:14 Jenny 

Yeah, get them In next time. 

01:15:15 Jordaline 

You're like, no, we're not going to do anything spooky for Halloween and then just bombard them. 

Triggertrap, this is an intervention. 

01:15:25 Jenny 

I love it. 

01:15:26 Jenny 

So thanks for listening. As always, you can get in touch with us with any questions or ideas or feedback you can do that by email thebookcastclub@outlook.com on Twitter or Instagram we’re @bookcastclub 

01:15:43 Jenny 

You can leave us a voice note which we would like to use in the show. 

The link to do that is in the show notes. 

You can sign up to our newsletter where we write more reviews for you. 

We tell you all the new book releases for the coming month. 

We share more podcast recommendations and we give you updates on what's happening on the podcast and obviously, and finally, you can check us out on Patreon. 

01:16:10 Jenny 

So thank you everyone for listening. 

Thank you Again, Jordaline for joining me and We'll be back very soon.