Where do you look for hope? Joe Mulhall, director of research at Hope not hate explores the leadership we need to leverage hope today.

Hope not hate is an antifascist organisation leveraging the power of hope in the face of hate. 

Dr Joe Mulhall joins Sarah to explore the kind of leadership we need to address deep ideological and political polarisation, the rise of far-right political party, Reform, the power of MAGA as a force for change, the expectations of a new government, the overwhelming importance of community and where we can all find hope. 

In an honest and uplifting conversation, Sarah and Joe explore why the UK has become so divisive over the last decade and beyond, the importance of perception versus reality in understanding the country's hearts and minds, and the opportunity we all have to effect change. 

In addition to his role at Hope not Hate, Joe is the author of numerous books on postwar fascism, including Drums in the Distance: Journeys into the Global Far Right and has written extensively for the Guardian. 

To find out more about Hope not hate 

To read their recent research on the rise of Reform 

Watch The Walk-in, an ITV drama featuring Stephen Graham on the infiltration of a far-right group. 

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