Dreaming his dream Bradley Charbonneau

The Tim Heale Podcasts S3 E59 Bradley Charbonneau

In this episode I chat with Bradley Charbonneau who spent 9 years "dreaming" his dream until one day on November 1, 2012, when he finally took tiny, daily action towards his dream. 

Then he started living his dream.
He also told me how to wright my worse book ever and if asked how it's going to say it stinks.

https://repossible.com

Discover The Parallel Six series, Letters from Afghanistan and The Empty Return at https://timheale.uk.

Discover Tim Heale’s books—including The Parallel Six series, Letters from Afghanistan and The Empty Return—along with his films and broadcasts. Visit https://timheale.uk and join Tim’s Despatch to keep in touch.https://timheale.uk

Transcript

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0 (1s):
The Tim Heale podcasts, ordinary people's extraordinary stories.

2 (15s):
Welcome to series three, a good Tim Heale podcasts in the last two series I've told you about my life. I've met many interesting people along the way who have become my friends and what they all have in common is they have fascinating stories of their own. We are happy to share with you now. Thank you for listening. Welcome to the team heal podcast. In this episode, I'm going to have a chat with Bradley. Bradley's going to tell us where our money was born. He's going to describe what it's like, where we grew up and the schools you went to. And he had just cation that he received. So broadly, you're in the ER in the room.

2 (1m 2s):
Hey, drink yourself, drop a spice. Rum goes down a tree.

3 (1m 10s):
Great. Well, thanks for having me on, I really like what you're doing with the, the idea of leaving a legacy. It's it's important. And like you had just said off the era, I wish I had more from people who are no longer here who can't tell me their stories anymore.

2 (1m 25s):
Yeah. I mean, it's a great shame, really, but if we don't, if we don't tell our stories, they'll be lost like generations beforehand that didn't have the opportunity to use this form to leave that legacy. So where were you born and when were you born?

3 (1m 43s):
I was born in 1968 in it's called van Nuys, California. It's outside of suburb of Los Angeles, kind of funny because the name is technically Dutch name. And now I'm in the Netherlands all these years later. Yeah. Born outside of Los Angeles and a leafy suburb of a big city LA and had a really nice upbringing there with playing baseball on the, in the streets and painting bases on the corner. And yeah, looking back, I got to say it was, it was, it was good growing up

2 (2m 21s):
California then was like the summer of love. Was it?

3 (2m 26s):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was it really? Yeah. It was really a wonderful, loving place to grow up and yes. And then the seventies as well. I mean, I went to some preschool that was super lovey Debbie hippie and five years old. What do I know? But I know it was lovey Debbie, so Hey, that's all you really need at five years old. Anyway. So

2 (2m 48s):
Again, love at five years old. I'm sure As a cheeky little baby as well.

3 (2m 56s):
Well, you know, it's funny. I think I was, yes, but quite shy, especially up until like fourth grade. I think I cried every day, the first day of school until fourth grade in the states, which is what you're maybe seven years old or something and yeah, that's, I took a long time to get over it. Just, just resisting change, not wanting anything to change. I see that now in my own kids, how tough it is. So,

2 (3m 22s):
So you did, you started off in, in, in sorta the kindergarten type skull. And then what was your first memories of school? I mean, you, you cry in an awful lot. I'm telling you seven. Yeah.

3 (3m 36s):
You know, it's, it's interesting about memories and that's another reason I'm so happy you're doing these, these interviews, these, these recounts of your life to record them because I sometimes get, I'm not clear whether or not I'm remembering it or whether I'm remembering a photo from a photo album, but I do remember specifically in kindergarten learning how to square dance and it's, I don't know if square dancing is a thing outside of the United States, but

2 (4m 4s):
It's a hoedown. Was it? Yeah,

3 (4m 6s):
Exactly. Yeah. It's very sort of country style, simple, you know, going around sort of in circles or I guess squares and yeah. And, and, and just being okay with it and dancing and having no fear at that age. I guess once I got over crying the first day, I, then I, I adapted better. And just that, that joy of just dancing and together with your, with your friends and in the little school, it's really, really nice. It's one of the first,

2 (4m 38s):
That's funny first memory. So, so moving on slightly then going to your first, or I guess he's from kindergarten, you go to junior school, is it? And the second

3 (4m 50s):
Yeah. L L elementary or grammar school and then onto junior high school, although you're talking about the seventies, because back then there was in, especially in Los Angeles, there was, it was, they were going to change the busing since they were going to integrate schools and bus kids all over the place. And so that was going to be better or worse for you depending on where you were living. And my mom was quite the activist back then. And so if you were already busts somewhere, then you wouldn't have had to be forcibly bused. Cause they were just kind of forced bus you wherever they wanted. Right. Wherever they felt best.

3 (5m 30s):
And my mother,

2 (5m 31s):
It's a big yellow things that you see.

3 (5m 34s):
Exactly. Yes. The big yellow thing. Yes. I spent a lot of hours of my youth and it was big yellow thing because my, because my mom, she seeing that this was going to happen and not wanting her kids to go to some terrible school, which is definitely a possibility. She's like, I'm going to proactively jump on this and I'm going to, I'm going to force my kids this year to be bused. And so that next year they won't be chosen to be best because oh, those kids are already being biased, but this, if you do it now, then she chooses her school. And so she that's what she did. And she even gathered up a group of like 30 kids and said, Hey, this is the deal.

3 (6m 14s):
Let's get this bus. Let's let's force our kids to this good school for the next few years. And then we'll prevent them being chosen to go to some bad school. Right. So interesting. Also speaking of like proactive, how, how you can proactively change your future, if you take action and that's really what she did. So it was actually interesting. I went to a school, I was from the San Fernando valley and we, so again, my mom voluntarily sent us to this school in east Los Angeles and our bus. We were the only white kids in the whole school.

3 (6m 55s):
And so, but the school had this sort of it's called a magnet program. I don't even know what that means, but some sort of, it was a good school educationally academically. And, and it was, and it was a great school day. They, it was re it was a really interesting school. So my early years there were, I was, we were the only white kids in the whole school and it was Hispanic and black and a lot of Asian and all my friends were all Hispanic and black and Asian growing up and our little white school bus. And we got made fun of, we got beaten up and then we didn't want to win the basketball game after, cause we might get beaten up. And then we learned, we learned pretty quickly how to deal with it.

3 (7m 38s):
And it was, it was good. It was really good learning experience. I think I learned a lot from that Later on,

2 (7m 46s):
I guess, racism wasn't as prevalent in, in California as it would have been sort of in the deep south. But did you experience that? So,

3 (7m 57s):
I mean,

2 (7m 59s):
From your perspective,

3 (8m 1s):
Yeah, so I think that was a really interesting element of my youth because, because we were the minority in that, in that school. And so I got to learn what it was like to be in the minority. And that was a real learning experience. And, you know, as a, as a white male today, you know, I, I don't know. I don't know how to even talk about that because this is like the reverse, but I got a taste then. Right. And what it was like, and I, I, I learned a lot from it and I think it's helped me in my perspective for the rest of my life.

3 (8m 44s):
But there was racism, but not, not, not, I don't know. I don't remember it being so bad. It was just, we were just different kids, but we still played basketball together.

2 (8m 55s):
Can I call it racism if you're, if it's against white people or is it only racism if it's against black people?

3 (9m 2s):
Yeah. That's I don't know. And this is where also today, you know, I, I don't know the answer and there's such a fine line there and that's why I feel also as a white male, can I even say this? You know what I mean?

2 (9m 17s):
Yeah. You tend to say the white majority tend to be the victims nowadays and, and they are the ones that are the racists, but in effect is a minority that tend to be the racist that I found, particularly in the UK. I mean, it, you see it all the time on the television, it's the supposedly black minority that are calling the white majority, the racist when it's the boots on the other foot, I think, believe.

3 (9m 59s):
Yeah. But historically right. Then, then I, you know, from the bigger picture perspective, you know, if we go back to slavery and then it's clear the way it used to be. And so that's why, again, I mean, again, from the white male perspective, I have a hard time. I have a hard time even talking about this because where do I stand? Where am I supposed to stand? And so that's why it was interesting for me back then to be on that, on that white bus and be in the only, the only white kids in the whole school. So yeah, I think it, it gave me a different perspective, more open perspective on what it's like to be a minority.

3 (10m 44s):
And, and again, I don't know, you know, we're so politically correct sometimes. So I live in the Netherlands. Right. Which is, I think more, more direct and less sort of politically correct. Cause I I'm American. I used to live in the states and there, I feel like even talking about this right now, it's kind of uncomfortable. I'm kind of like, well, am I, am I saying the wrong thing? And sometimes I, you know what I mean? It's, it's hard sometimes. Like I don't want, I don't want to say the wrong thing. I don't want to offend the wrong people, but it's just my story. So I don't know how else to tell my story. No, that was it.

2 (11m 18s):
So let's, let's move off of that subject then

3 (11m 24s):
We're going to dig ourselves.

2 (11m 29s):
So what did you do after that school? So, so that first year you were bused across, across town to this predominantly black and Asian school. You're the only white kids in it. What I'm the following year? Or did you get a job?

3 (11m 50s):
I graduated elementary school from there, but so then things got even, even more interesting because suddenly went back to my neighborhood and went to the local high school or the local junior high school. But then my, I was apparently I was messing around too much in school, too much chitter chatter and having too much fun and goofing off. And so my mom was going again, my mom, the activist, right. She's like, okay, this isn't working out. You're, you're, you're a smart kid and you're goofing off too much. You know, you're going to screw it all up. And so she said, I want you to go to this different school. I said, oh, okay. Some private school. And back then private schools weren't super expensive. Like they are today, but it was, it was private Catholic, all boys.

3 (12m 36s):
And I was previously in a, non-private not Catholic, not all boys school, mom, mom, please. No. And but sure enough, she did. Right.

2 (12m 48s):
What did she tell you that it was all your own fault?

3 (12m 52s):
Probably who knows, you know, it's it's for your own good, but it's interesting. So looking back, right. We just talked about how I was that we were the only white kids on this bus, but, and we were talking about being different and mean to minority. Well, that elementary school experience with nothing compared to being at the, at the Catholic school because at the Catholic school. So now I'm coming in like ninth and 10th grade I'm whatever, 12, 13, 14 years old. And in Catholic schools in the states, most of the kids are Catholic for one and I was not Catholic. So I've already got, you know, a mark against me. And then they go to school together from like kindergarten all the way through 12th grade.

3 (13m 36s):
So they are 12, 13 years. They're all together that whole time. And then, so here comes public school boy from, you know, the outcast again, the outcast comes in and I, that was so much harder being in that I was such an outcast. It was terrible. It was, it was really hard. It was a really hard period for me to try to fit in. And I basically did not fit in. It was, I failed at fitting in. Sure. I made some, made some friends. And in fact, the friends I made, I, I kept for a long time maybe because we were sort of the outcast, I don't know. But that going into that private Catholic school man, that was, that was tougher than anything at that point.

2 (14m 18s):
Did you have to learn the old spectacles testicles while and watch job?

3 (14m 25s):
I was, yeah, I was that, well, there was another place where I felt inferior, you know, I didn't, I hadn't grown up in very religious, not religious at all, you know, church at Christmas maybe. And so here I am, again, you know, another mark against me, cause I don't know the religion. So it's funny even, you know, it's, it's, it's really interesting what you're doing, you know, talking about people's lives. And as I think back on that, wow, I survived.

2 (14m 53s):
What is this? This is the sort of thing I try to bring our people is their experiences as they grew up. Because if we don't highlight those experiences, it's lost, isn't it?

3 (15m 5s):
So

2 (15m 6s):
Yeah. So difficult.

3 (15m 9s):
Yeah. I mean my, my kids, I don't know, you know, I don't know if they know these stories, so this is, this is really fun to, to bring this stuff out. So I'm really thankful for you as well too, to bring this stuff out and be sharing this it's really great idea what you're doing.

2 (15m 22s):
So junior high, so he can pretty much have a hard time for junior high. Well, what happened to your high school? So they get a burst.

3 (15m 35s):
It finally got better. Aye. Aye. Aye, sir. After my mom said, you know, okay, one year at the private Catholic all boys school, like, okay, fine. One year after one year, just one more year, But I did it. And so it was two years at that school. And then finally I said, mom, I just, it's just not really working out. I just hate it. And it's tough and block. And so she let me go back to the public school where I thrived and I had a great time. And so I finished off at a Los Angeles public high school, graduated from there. And then

2 (16m 11s):
You obviously learn a lesson for, for your goofing around athletes go, did they, did they knocked out? Did you get an opportunity to lock about or, or was it resolved fairly straight from day one? And you thought what your neck and

3 (16m 28s):
Well, the Catholic school was definitely strict. It was, it was not no messing around there, but, but also I wasn't, I wasn't comfortable. I wasn't, my happy-go-lucky positive self anymore. I was sort of scared and such an outcast that I wasn't having fun. I had no, no reason to goof off in class. Cause I'm just, I'm trying to, I wasn't thriving. I was surviving. Yeah.

2 (16m 52s):
So you, you move to two years of that sort of harsh punishment. You move back to your original school where you were, did you carry on, did you revert back to type or less than a knuckled down?

3 (17m 11s):
Yeah, I think, you know, in the, in the grand, you know, mature age of 16 or whatever it is, I, yeah, I think I got that mostly out of me, most of the goofing around and, and had a good last two years at that high school and yeah, graduated. And, but then, so my parents were living in Los Angeles and my parents, we wanted to do that. The typical American Euro European summer trip and, and my sister and I really didn't want to go. I wanted to, I wanted to go to the beach with my friends and away the entire summer. That was my dream.

3 (17m 52s):
My parents, I know we are forcing you to go to Europe,

2 (17m 56s):
European vacation

3 (17m 58s):
And vacation, and we didn't want to go at all. And sure enough though, I, I really enjoyed it and it really opened my eyes. And then, so this is really interesting here, if this is the third chapter here. So we had the, the white, the white kid bus, then I had the non-Catholic cast in the church. And, and now I'm over in Europe where I'm also different, different again, right now I'm the American and I'm not at home, I'm in a foreign country. And I got to say, it was really intriguing to me. I thought, wow, this is cool.

3 (18m 40s):
And maybe in some weird way, and it's actually funny really talking about this in some weird way. Maybe I grew to be comfortable in that Outkast position. B B even, even to the point where I almost thought, Hey, maybe this could, I could flip this around and make it a positive thing. What if I'm no, the, the, the guy who I'm not like right now, I'm American living in the Netherlands. I'm not normal. I'm not from here. I'm not the local guy. I haven't lived in this neighborhood for my entire life.

2 (19m 13s):
And do you speak Dutch? And if you do speak Dutch, do you have an American accent? Speaking Dutch?

3 (19m 20s):
I, I do speak Dutch. I do have an American accent, but I hear that it's, it's not terrible. It's not the terrible American accent, but partly because then after my parents dragged us to Europe, I just, I just, I just thought that's where I want to go. And it was so clear to me that I needed to go live, you know, go back to Europe that after that summer, the very first day of university, I start university. I go to the career counseling center and I'd say, I need to go to Europe. How do I get to Europe? And they say, well, you got to learn a language. I said, well, I took a little French in high school. Great do that. Like great sign me up.

3 (20m 2s):
And so I was a mathematics major, but I said, but I need to go to Europe. So I did, I then studied some friends and university, which of course for American standard means that I don't know any friends.

2 (20m 18s):
Well, I have pretty poor schoolboy French and Years ago I was doing some Lowy drive in. And I used to, I was driving from, from Oslo down to Paris on a line truck most of the time. And we used to go out to, down to the mall, to a factory down there. And as I pulled up Glen and the truck and I'd see the child change coming across the yard and shout across the room, bone job, mature Chevelle <inaudible> or no, Wayne, Please, please, please speak English.

3 (21m 4s):
You're killing me

2 (21m 5s):
Well for me every time. But he did appreciate the fact that I tried to speak French. Yeah,

3 (21m 15s):
Yeah, exactly. That that's all that matters, really? Because if you go to a country where you're not going to learn the language, at least give it a shot, just let them know, giving it a try.

2 (21m 24s):
I've always found it. If I can learn the basics of saying hello, thank you. Please make the order a drink or some food, then you're pretty good. I mean, they will appreciate the fact that you're trying, he said the English is notoriously bad for learning other languages because I guess English is the international language of the world. So it's a lot harder for us to learn another language. But I tried, I mean, I would spend quite a few years in Germany when I was in the army. I used to be fairly, I could go get around in German when I was working up in Norway, I've got the Norwegian.

2 (22m 7s):
I was fairly fluent in Norwegian for a couple of years. But once you stop using it, you do tend to lose you a bit, but there you go.

3 (22m 15s):
Yeah, absolutely.

2 (22m 17s):
So choosing a college then,

3 (22m 23s):
So then I read

2 (22m 26s):
And you learn French

3 (22m 27s):
Doing learning math, but then I was, I was really focused on Europe. I ju I that's, I don't know. It's funny looking back. It was just really clear that I, I just, I needed to go there. So I worked towards that. I did all everything you needed to do to do the year abroad program. And then, however, so the school where I was in California, university of California school and their program to France was like a bubble of Americans who then go to France and live in a bubble of Americans in France.

3 (23m 7s):
And I thought, well, that kind of defeats the purpose, right? If you think back to, well, it wasn't like our white bus was just, wasn't integrated in the school. Not at all. We absolutely integrated in the school and back in the, the non-Catholic and the Catholic school. Well, I had to meet friends and I mean, I tried and I did my best and I did, and I made, made friends. And so now I didn't want my, I didn't want to be in the American bubble in France. And so I even, I am enrolled in my university of California program and I found a different program through Western Kentucky university.

3 (23m 48s):
And to this day, I don't even know where this place is, but I enrolled in Western Kentucky university, sorry, no offense, worsening, Kentucky university students. But I enrolled in their program because their program, I was going to be in, in classes, in France with French people. And I thought, oh, well, that's, that's the real deal. That's where I'm going to learn really something. Right. So I might have history class, but it's going to be in French. It's not just going to be a group of Americans, you know, learning French or something. So I'm like, oh, all right. I'm, I'm really going to integrate. And, and that's exactly what happened. So I did, and guess what? I really learned friends that year because I'm taking economics in French.

3 (24m 30s):
I mean, I'm failing miserably, but it was, but it was so such a hardcore crash course that I really learned France, like Matt

2 (24m 41s):
And I.

3 (24m 44s):
Yeah.

2 (24m 44s):
And I only speak in French in a class, and they're not making an exception for you

3 (24m 50s):
Exactly.

2 (24m 51s):
What if I learn French? It goes over your head. Yeah,

3 (24m 56s):
Exactly. And so, and I remember hearing, and I, I even saw people from the program that I did not join and they just didn't integrate as well. They didn't have the classes with the friends. They had their own little bubble world. And I S you know, I didn't, I just, that wasn't my choice. I really want it to be integrated

2 (25m 15s):
French people then.

3 (25m 18s):
Yeah. Although I made even more friends with international people. And so, because in the French class, there were also other people and not from Western Kentucky, I didn't, I mean, I could, I met some of them, but I met Germans and I met debts and I met other people from all Australians and Concannon Canadians who were also in that integrated element of the program. And so we were now all in the same boat that we were foreigners in France, but we, we were more serious about really integrating and meeting people and, and doing our best to, to not be in a bubble, just the foreigners in a bubble.

2 (26m 2s):
Brilliant. So that was a year long, but you did that. So when you came back to America, I guess you came back to America.

3 (26m 11s):
I did come back to, to America. And then the very first day back in the states, I said, how do I get back to Europe again? Because I was just smitten. I just, I just knew it, it was so clear for me that Europe was the place I want it to be. So this makes no sense at all. But when I got back to my school in California, so I had to re-enroll in my school in California and I, the first day back I started taking German. And maybe it's partly, maybe it's because I had a German girlfriend in France, but I had some something to do with it. A lot to do with it. Yes.

2 (26m 51s):
And can I just, just wander back just a fraction yeah. That holiday, that you were forced to Europe you're forced on a family vacation.

3 (27m 2s):
Yeah.

2 (27m 3s):
What countries did you visit or missed that inspired you to want to go back to Europe?

3 (27m 12s):
Well, I think one thing I really enjoyed was the train, the train travel, especially in the Western United States, we really don't have train travel. And so we had to hold the typical rail pass thing for a month. And we did the typical American way too many countries in way too few days. I think it was all the way from Greece to, to Amsterdam and everything in between. And I think it was six weeks or something. And I was just in love with train travel and all these different, I mean, typical American perspective on Europe. I thought, wow, all these countries are so accessible and relatively smaller. And wow, it's so different from one border to the next.

3 (27m 54s):
And I'm on a train and an hour later, I'm in a different country, different language, different food, different people. Like this is just fascinating for me. I just, I was just, I was so in love with Europe and I still am to this day. Yeah. So,

2 (28m 8s):
So I'm back forward now. We've got out of like,

3 (28m 13s):
So then I, I graduate, I learned German and now I'm just super focused. And by the way, while in France, I came back to my school and they said, well, you are math, maths degree, but you have so many units for French. You could graduate with a friend's degree easily and you, you know, what do you want to do? And I said, silly said like, well, what am I going to do with math? Well, that's a waste of time. I want to go back to Europe. So I'm like, I'll just do that French degree. And so I did, so I graduated with a friends degree also because all I wanted to do was go back to Europe.

3 (28m 57s):
So I said, oh, who cares about math? And sure enough, I, then I learned German for the, for the girlfriend, I guess. And, and then the day after I graduate, I know I didn't waste time that I remember this the day after graduation from university, I moved to Germany and I had set up a, a program, a work exchange program type thing in some massive giant company. They make, you know, the earth movers who knows what they did. But I had this, all I cared was that I was there and I had a program. I made a little bit of money. I had a housing and I was in, and it was sort of like the friend school.

3 (29m 40s):
Cause now I'm in a German job where I'm, I have to speak German all day. And my German was not that great, but guess who's German got great in three months. So then I was in Germany and now I'm just, I'm living the dream. I'm barely making enough money to survive, but I don't care at all because I'm in Europe. I'm just so happy that I'm here.

2 (30m 0s):
Whereabouts in Germany,

3 (30m 2s):
It was, it was awful place. It was called, sorry. Sorry for those people just Berg. It said it's really industrial

2 (30m 15s):
Israel on a Dutch, Dutch border. Tired as well. I'm going to do is Berg and yeah. And then onto cologne.

3 (30m 26s):
Yeah. Right.

2 (30m 27s):
For the, for the iPhone.

3 (30m 33s):
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then, And so, I mean this, you know, industrial town working for this giant industrial conglomerate, and I have no idea, you know, what's going on. I'm just happy to be there and happy to be legal and have a job and be working and planning my next move. And my move, all I cared about was how do I stay in Europe? How do I stay in Europe? And at that point, so I, then I had another cocktail come, another practical work experience thing. Then I went to a school. You can always go to school. Countries will have you, if you go to school because you're bringing money into the country.

3 (31m 13s):
So they'll let you go to school anywhere. So I went to the wall, had just come down the German, the Berlin wall.

2 (31m 20s):
I,

3 (31m 21s):
Yeah. And so I went to, I went in like 91. I went to a school in east Germany for one month in Chemnitz. It was, the talent was formerly called Karl Marx stopped And now called Chemnitz. And I chose for, I look back at this stuff and I think like, what was I thinking? Why would I put myself through this? But again, I do the odd ball move again. I'm the total outcast stranger weirdo. Who's the American who's in east Germany, learning German in the Berlin wall, came down, you know, half an hour ago.

3 (32m 2s):
And I go into east Germany to learn German for a month. I'm a total nutcase,

2 (32m 8s):
H German, German is a lot different to west German Dialects. Just for a start at different. Yeah. Yeah. My experience, I was, I was in Berlin from 1978 to 80 and wow. W when we went through a checkpoint Charlie to go into east Berlin to do flight tours and stuff like that, for us, it was just like going from a color film to a black and white film. And We used to draw it from, from Potsdam down to Brunswick, through east Germany is Germany was gray.

2 (32m 54s):
I don't know whether you felt the same when you were absolutely broke from, from west to gem nets or the coast. What's his face.

3 (33m 3s):
Karl Marx.

2 (33m 4s):
Yeah. And everything

3 (33m 9s):
Exactly how you describe it. It's perfect.

2 (33m 13s):
Yeah. The cultural in east Germany is, it looks as though it's bodged rather than made properly.

3 (33m 23s):
Yeah.

2 (33m 24s):
Yeah. So it looks cheaper. Nasty.

3 (33m 27s):
Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. That was, it was strange. It was strange times.

2 (33m 34s):
Yeah. So how did you get on in east Berlin or east Germany?

3 (33m 40s):
<inaudible> I think I wore, you know, gray, gray, overcoats, and tried to fit in with the gray overcast. It was pretty dreary and it was, it was November and it was all, you know, the sun goes down at 4:00 PM and it's cold and wet. And I loved it. I had, I was just so happy to be in Europe. And it was just that, in fact, that's just that, that clear focus of this is what I want to do. It just, it allowed me to achieve whatever I wanted to do, because my focus was so clear.

2 (34m 23s):
Okay. So move on. I say, what we're getting into, so you've done your month in Jemez. What what'd you do after that?

3 (34m 35s):
And so during this time, and remember, this is like 90, 91, 92, right. This is way pre-internet right. So no internet, and I've got to figure out a way to find internships or jobs or schools or something. And that often meant literally, I mean, I know my kids today would say you did what, you know, write a letter in an envelope with a stamp and mail it to our company to apply for a job or something. And so I, and I found another one, I found another internship and I did that. And then I said, okay, the internships are going to end at some point.

3 (35m 15s):
And how can I? And my fascination with Europe was still just growing. It wasn't dwindling. I just, I knew it. I just wanted to live here. And so I, I started asking, how, how can I, how can I stay here? How can I stay here longer term? How can I not just be this temporary student? How can I sort of live and work here? Do I make that happen? And there was sort of three options. There was because I only have an American passport. I could go work for a big us firm and hope they send me overseas someday, or I could apply to work at a European firm and see how that goes.

3 (35m 60s):
Or number three was earn a recognizable degree, educational academic degree. That's recognizing Europe then get hired by European firm. So the first one was going to take too long. The second one, I actually tried that it was really hard and I failed miserably to try to get a job there. And then the third one, I said, okay, well, I'm going to do that. And so not that I'm such a business guy, but I, based on schooling, I went, I didn't, I looked at MBA schools, masters of business administration in Europe. And I said, because that will then ideally lead me to a job in Europe, or then I can live and work in Europe.

3 (36m 41s):
And so that's what I did. And it was down to Manchester, England, Barcelona, Spain, and Rotterdam, the Netherlands. Those are my three top schools. And in the end it was, he brought her to that one out, partly because it was, I was pretty young to go to an MBA. I looking back, I should have had more work experience that would have been more beneficial, but the school was longer and a two year long two year program. And it was very international based. And because they also said, if I go to school in Manchester, I'm probably going to live and work in England. If I go to school in Barcelona, I'm probably going to live and work in Spain.

3 (37m 21s):
But the sort of the appeal of the Dutch one was that they were much more international. Like maybe I could go to any place after that. So I'm like, oh, I'm gonna do that one. And, and also back in, in France, this school abroad, I also had a desk girlfriend and I had been to Holland quite a bit. And I liked that. And so, yeah, so I went to, I applied and went back to the states and I applied for the MBA programs and I got in and I went to, yeah, I did a two year MBA program in Rotterdam, the Netherlands, which was, which was fantastic.

2 (37m 58s):
So who funded this thing? Because They will money.

3 (38m 5s):
Yep. Yep. So it's interesting. My nieces are my American nieces from my American sister are here right now. She just left last night and they were visiting. She was visiting in the Netherlands. They are doing this abroad program in Italy and they go to school in the states at, and we were even talking about tuition and tuition in the United States for university is astronomically insane. It's crazy. And the rest of the world, I mean, that's the world that says, like, what is that all about? And sometimes it's maybe worth it. I don't know. I'm a little, I'm, I'm pretty biased on this topic.

3 (38m 45s):
But school in Europe is a whole lot cheaper. So this program in the Netherlands was cheap. It was cheaper than my undergrad education in the states. I mean, by a long shot, it really wasn't that expensive. And so looking back, I had saved some money and I think my parents helped me out a bit, but honestly it wasn't very expensive. I mean, nothing like the prices today. So it wasn't a crazy by any means. And then of course the idea is that you're going to get a job that pays well afterwards. So, you know, investment and sure enough, I did.

3 (39m 25s):
I went to school there in Rotterdam for two years, and then I got a job as hoped as planned in Amsterdam. I was just outside of Amsterdam in the Netherlands. And I got a job, a good job afterwards and worked there for two years and lived in Amsterdam. And I was living a life and I was legally working. I was making an income. I wasn't a total outcast, just tourist visiting anymore. I was a real local and it was not, it was just, I did it. I did it. I, I achieved it.

2 (39m 58s):
So that's where you learn Dutch.

3 (40m 1s):
Yeah. Yeah. And similar to the France story. And as you said, because our native language is English. People want to learn English from us. And so, and the Dutch, their English is already excellent, but they said, oh cool. And American. And I was the first and only foreigner in this company. Are we seeing a trend here? That I'm always the outcast,

2 (40m 25s):
So,

3 (40m 29s):
Yeah. Yeah. So I'm the first and only foreigner in this company. And I told them, I said, Hey guys, I know you all want to, cause they would tell me, oh good. You were going to practice English with you. I said, no, if you practice English with me, I'm never going to learn Dutch. So I said, I'm really sorry, but I'm I'm I need to learn Dutch. So sorry. I'm not going to speak English with you. I need to learn Dutch. And so I did, and I learned as quickly because I was so stubborn that I only spoke Dutch and having lived in Germany and I spoke German and Dutch is similar enough to German. That death came pretty quickly to me.

2 (41m 4s):
So he's spending a lot of time spitting on the Florida.

3 (41m 11s):
Yeah. I don't speak, I don't speak Flemish, but I do get quite a bit of phlegm. Yeah.

2 (41m 22s):
This, this, this ferment. So you, you were there for two years.

3 (41m 27s):
Yeah. So two years of school and then two years of that, the whole corporate job suit and tie and everything, which was funny because that was very unlike me. I, and I knew it wasn't me, but again,

2 (41m 40s):
I mean, Dutch, the Dutch aren't really known for being smart, snazzy dressers. So you're wearing a certain toy and a Jew, the Dutch company.

3 (41m 49s):
Yeah. It's

2 (41m 50s):
Unusual. <inaudible> jeans. You're right. Casually. Right.

3 (41m 56s):
But this is, this was nine the nineties and it was a little less formal. I mean, I'm sorry. Less casual back then, I suppose at no, it was definitely a suit and tie, which it was not my cup of tea at the time, but I did it Then A couple of years there. Then I met a desk girl and I'm really seeing the trends here. I'm the outcast. And then I go, I can follow the love And it's not bad, not a bad plan actually.

2 (42m 36s):
So generally you're ruled by your heart rather than your head then

3 (42m 40s):
That's it.

2 (42m 41s):
You just go with your heart rather than your headset. You don't think these things through properly do yet.

3 (42m 48s):
No, it's, you're absolutely right. It's their heart based decisions. You know, I just wanted to live in Europe. I don't care where I was or what I was doing or how much money I had as long as I was in Europe. And then with her, I just wanted to be with her. And so, so for example, we then were talking about traveling and we wanted to always travel together and get to know each other better. We fed all, we'll go a weekend in Belgium. Oh, let's go a week to France. And we can't building up this travel plan. And it got completely out of hand. We were both real travelers and that's really where our heart was traveling. And we ended up both quitting our jobs, selling everything we had.

3 (43m 30s):
And we went around the world for a year together, the two of us and back to funding this, and this is again, this is like late nineties funding the trip around the world. And we're talking backpacks, super GB travel, right. That trip cost me our budget. Monthly was, it was a thousand dollars together. So over that 12 months, it was 12 months trips. So maybe 12,000, I mean, try to live on $12,000 in most countries in the world these days and Be faced. Yeah. And so it was cheaper for me. It sounds ridiculous, but it was cheaper for me to travel around the world than to stay and work at my corporate job.

3 (44m 20s):
Yeah. Yeah. And then on that trip, we, so now I had been in Europe, then I did the France. I did the Germany. I did the Netherlands for, I'd been in Europe for about seven years. And on that trip with my girlfriend, we thought, you know, I've been in Europe for seven years. You've lived in the Netherlands your whole life. We said, Hey, maybe we should go to the states for a year. Go check it out. And so, Yeah, yeah, yeah. 17 years later, we were still in the states and married careers, mortgages kids, the whole thing I'll in San Francisco, California where we, we went and then 17 years in the states.

3 (45m 5s):
And then just six years ago now we kind of had the reverse thing. We said, Hey, we've been here a long time. You're Dutch. By the way, we only speak that's with our kids. And that was again with language guy here, I was thought it was really important that my kids learned Dutch from birth. We only spoke Dutch at home. And my, my Dutch at that point, I was very good. My desk is very good today. And so we said, let's go to, let's go back to the Netherlands just for one year, just for like a sabbatical experiment year. Yeah. And that was six years ago and we're still here. So I'm, I'm done predicting who done predicting the future because apparently not very good at it.

2 (45m 47s):
So how are the kids? Did you bring the kids over here at a school? Adrian they're grown up.

3 (45m 54s):
Yeah. They were 10, 10 and 12, which was, which was a little bit too late. Probably need in 10 would have been better because like, especially the 12 year old, he had his, his roots a bit in the states pretty, pretty deeply at that point. And still to this day, he's 18 still to this day. He, he is, is hard as a lot in the states, a younger son, 16, his heart is making is digging the roots here now. So wouldn't be surprised if my 18 year old goes back to the states and the younger 16 year old he's really loving Europe. So

2 (46m 31s):
You could go back there to, to university or, or, or join the military and then the military will pay for his education.

3 (46m 40s):
Yeah. He could, yeah. He can go back there and I want to have it open for, for both of them. Yeah. So like me, I have, no, I don't dare say you have to stay in one place. I sure didn't In fact that's what I want them to do. I want them to go, go where they want to go. Yeah.

2 (46m 60s):
Yeah. Fantastic. Yeah. That's kind of brings you right up to date then.

3 (47m 5s):
So yeah.

2 (47m 5s):
Let's just want it back slightly. So, so that year you're going to spend in America that turned into 17. What did you do with that time? Did you, did you stay in a one company? Did you move out? Obviously you married at the kids.

3 (47m 22s):
Yeah. So at that point, and again, I think with the geographical moves, you then allow yourself like a, like a psychological move as well or a change. And so for me, especially moving countries or continents, I feel like, oh, good, I'm allowed to now almost become a different person. And so remember I'm in suit and tie working at the, you know, infer it consultancy back in Amsterdam where I'm not comfortable in my suit and tie. And I know this, I know this about myself and, but you know, I'm making money, I'm doing the corporate thing, but I know that's not really me. But then so after one year of traveling around the world, I, I say, Hey, you know what, I'm going to, I'm going to become my real self now.

3 (48m 9s):
And I'm going to be who I really want to be, which would sense that time in France, I always wanted to be a writer. And I said, I thought, okay, well, this is the time we're starting fresh in the states. And this is an opportunity for me to become who I, who I believe I should be. And that should as a writer. And so we, we arrive in San Francisco, which is, you know, one of the most expensive cities in the states. That was, that was a bit, a bit of an eye-opener and here I want to be a writer. Well, I should really have chosen. I wished my heart was in banking or something that actually made money, but there wasn't.

3 (48m 50s):
And so I'm, I actually do. I I'm right. I mean a writers group in San Francisco, I'm writing away. And I wrote, I even wrote a book and I was writing articles for magazines and newspapers and doing great, but it's a tough racket. The writing job to actually make money. And again, with like the heart decision and the like mind decision, it was again, I would go on by the heart, the hardest I want to be a writer, but the mind was like, Hey, you got to pay rent. And so I was not making the ramp with the writing. And back when, on our, on our world travels, I was in Hanoi in Vietnam and in some cafe and I'm reading a business week magazine.

3 (49m 38s):
And in this magazine, it talks about this, this new, this new business, where if you have a business, a bit of business savvy and you're good at languages, you can go work at this company and create names for companies and products. So it was a naming company sort of like branding, but naming, all they do is create names for companies. And they said, our ideal candidate is a linguist with an MBA. So I even, I even tear out this article from this business week magazine article, might've been years old. And I, I, and some of these companies happened to be in the San Francisco area.

3 (50m 22s):
So I go to this company and I say, here's this article I read, the person you're looking for is me. And I basically got the job with that story. I mean, it was true. Also, of course I was a linguist with an MBA and I got the job. And so I worked for a naming company for a, and that was how I pay the rent in San Francisco. And it was actually, it was fun work to the work that really was creative work. And we did, we created names for products and companies. And again, this is like the boom of the early two thousands with Silicon valley going crazy. And they're just, there's new companies popping up all the time and they needed new names.

3 (51m 2s):
So we were the creative team that created the new names. So, but at that point though, then my, my dream of writing was falling away. And because I'm getting into the reality of, you know, making money and paying rent and all that reality check stuff. So the writing was falling away in that. I was, I wasn't happy about that. And, but we have kids, we have house, we have all the reality stuff, right. So that was a real hard balance for me. And the balance was, was getting out of balance. I was doing too much of the work I didn't enjoy doing, and then not doing the work that I knew I might have more of my heart was.

3 (51m 43s):
Yeah. So 17 years later, we want to go back to Europe because I want the kids to have also, I want them to learn Dutch and I want them to have a different environment than only American, because that's all they had had. And I missed Europe. I said, Hey, we've been here at 17 years. It's it's time to move. And the kids were 10 and 12. So it was sort of then, or never. And, and then again with the idea of moving geographically and I can move psychologically or emotionally even, and allow myself to then do something different because I was done with the, I had my own company at this point, sort of like a design marketing agency thing was, it was okay.

3 (52m 30s):
But I was really just sick of it. Cause I knew my heart was with writing. So it didn't matter what I was doing or how much money I was making my heart wasn't in it. And it was, I wasn't going to last longer, I was going to burn out or freak out or, you know, have a heart attack or who knows this wasn't I wasn't happy. And so with that, move back to the Netherlands. I then allowed myself to change path again. And I, I finished that company from the states and I said, now I'm going to be a writer. And that's what I've been doing for the past six years. Well, what do you want? They allowed myself.

3 (53m 11s):
I started all over the map. I started writing just anything just because I felt like it had so much built up over the years that I was not writing. I just exploded with, I just, you couldn't stop me from writing at that point. And now I'm mostly focused on, it's very much what we're talking about. It's change in your life and how to achieve. If you think you're not being that person, you think you should be, how can you make it happen and what can be the actual steps and the action, and then daring that it takes because you know, there's sacrifice as well, right?

3 (53m 53s):
Yeah. I'm writing, but am I making the money? I was with my old company. Nope. Do I care? Nope. My happier. Yep. So there's that balance again, to what what's happier, you know, what do you want? Do you want, you know, money and frustration or do you want, you know, joy and maybe less money, but where are your priorities? Where are you? Where are you going to make the sacrifice? And so that, that's a lot. What I write about is how to like the, the subtitle of my main book is who will you be next? Who's your next chapter? Cause I don't believe that like I'm not, I'm not the corporate it guy in a suit and tie anymore.

3 (54m 36s):
That was a chapter of my life. And I'm done with that and I don't regret it. I did it. I didn't love it. That it was just a chapter of my life and that's okay. And I can change.

2 (54m 48s):
Absolutely. And, and a person like ruled by your heart and not your head.

3 (54m 55s):
Yeah.

2 (54m 57s):
And I guess it generally has all fallen into place for you.

3 (55m 2s):
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I'm, I'm so much happier now doing what I want to do. And, and now back when we talk about balance and finances and stuff, I do have a harder time. Let me put it this way. I wish I made more money from the heart. Yeah. Jobs and work and decisions. But the thing about them is that I'm going to do them anyway. Like the writing of the books. It's a heart action. I do it because it makes me happy. I do it because I love it. Do I don't do it for the money, so okay. If that's the case.

3 (55m 43s):
No, but do I, do I call it a hobby? And then I, you know, I work at the bank, the rest of my life. I'm like, well, I'm not going to go that far on the extreme. And so how can I kind of balance it out where I can still make a living and pay the rent, but then do my heart based actions enough to keep me happy. And the trick is the balance. Of course I ensure if I made loads of money in my, in my books and everything, then that'd be great to

2 (56m 12s):
Show it will come eventually.

3 (56m 14s):
Yeah. And it's it's there. But so, and now where I'm having the most fun is really, so there was a period back San Francisco where I was not writing and I was not happy about it. And I had big dreams in my head of what it was that how my life should be and how my, my dream future life. And yet I wasn't taking any action towards them. And it's partly, you know, perfectionism and analysis paralysis and imposter syndrome, who am I to think that I could do that stuff.

3 (56m 55s):
And so I thought about it and dreamed about it, but I didn't take action towards it. And a lot of it is, so what I hear so much is this idea of you want your first book or your first project or your first album that you record as a singer, as a band. You want that to be the greatest thing of all time and in my experience, yes, of course that's possible, but the probability is not great. And so what if, instead of working towards your, your best book ever, which is your first book ever, instead of working towards your best book ever, why don't we work on your worst book ever first and make it terrible and it's going to be awful and the cover is going to be horrendous and the story is going to be terrible.

3 (57m 50s):
Yeah. And just let's get that out of the way, because the process of going through the steps of writing this worst book ever is going to clean that out of your system. It's like, you're, you know, you're getting a carburetor, you know, let's go, go drive a hundred miles an hour for an hour in your car. And that's going to clean out the pipes. That's going to get the piston is working better because you get, you get, you get used to, right. Whereas if you D if your car is just parked in the garage, your pristine car, that you actually never drive because it's your dream car. Well, what good is that doing? Yeah, absolutely. So that's actually the program I'm doing right now, and it's called how to write your worst book ever.

3 (58m 34s):
And it's, it's a lot about getting over yourself, just taking action and, and sort of opening up and laughing with yourself, even, even at yourself and, and making that okay. And then to, yeah. Yeah. So that's, that's where I really, I really, and what's fun about it is that it's fun. Yeah. It's so fun working with people on their worst book, because all of the pressure has gone of the, of the society and, oh, you have, your, your book has to be award-winning and you have to make a million million euros in a weekend and blah, blah, blah.

3 (59m 16s):
All of these high expectations, they're just gone and all the societal pressures are gone. And I mean, I even have a joke that I tell the participants in the group, I say, okay, here's the conversation you're going to have you ready? Okay. Here we go. You're in it. You're in a pub. And somebody says, oh, I heard you're working on a book. How is it? How is it? And you say, it's terrible. And they say, excuse me, it's like, no, really it's so bad. Let me tell you about it. And if I think about this, I can't even say this without laughing. Right. Because it's, it's so silly, but it's so powerful because if you, especially, some people, some participants we've had, they're like, wow, thank you so much.

3 (1h 0m 4s):
Because I got over myself, I got over this big image of this fantastico, magnificent masterpiece. And, and me the Maestro of all literature ever

2 (1h 0m 20s):
The next J K Rowling. And you know,

3 (1h 0m 25s):
And you're not, and you probably never will be because there's not too many of her. And so why bother, why bother not taking action and only dreaming your dream? And let's take some silly action to break through, to like unclogged the carburetor, to unclog the drain and just get it out of you. And then I can almost guarantee you your second book or your second project or your second, whatever it is you're working on is going to be better. You've got that crap out of the way.

2 (1h 1m 3s):
Yeah.

3 (1h 1m 5s):
So that's what I'm really passionate about these days, because also I don't want people wasting. I mean, I think I counted like nine years in San Francisco when I was not doing, I wasn't doing the hard thing. I wasn't doing what I, what I believed in, what I really wanted to do. Yeah. And, and it sucks the life out of you.

2 (1h 1m 25s):
It does. Yeah. I, I believe in, you've got one life and you have to live it and you live everyday as I actually lost.

3 (1h 1m 35s):
And again,

2 (1h 1m 35s):
If you could, if when you die, you can say I've had a great life on one of my own choosing, Then you, you ain't going to be fall wrong.

3 (1h 1m 45s):
Yeah. And so what if on your deathbed, you say, oh, I sure wish I had written that perfect book, but I never actually wrote anything. Well, I think that's more painful than, Hey, I, I, even, if you only write your worst book ever, and you're on your death bed, you say, I, you know what, I did it, I wrote that book. It was so bad. It was, it was terrible. Know what I did it though. Did it? Yeah. And exactly what you're doing with your program here. Maybe your book is a fictional story of your life. Maybe your book is a self-help book for something you're good at it. Doesn't whatever. But it's going to be something of a legacy that you're leaving behind because you created something,

2 (1h 2m 31s):
That's it,

3 (1h 2m 31s):
You, it wasn't just, I watch Netflix or I listened to this or I learned that that's all intake and input. I mean, that's really easy to sit on the couch and watch Netflix. That's super easy.

2 (1h 2m 43s):
Yeah.

3 (1h 2m 44s):
Creating like what you're doing, you're creating, you gotta, you know, get out of bed, get out, get the camera, going, get the mic ready. And you're creating. That is so much more rewarding than anything you receive. So like, you know, you could have create your worst podcast ever. You know, this is not your first podcast. You've been doing this for how many seasons now? Right.

2 (1h 3m 11s):
Couple of years now.

3 (1h 3m 13s):
Yeah, couple of years now. And if you look back and if you, if you wanted that first episode to be the most perfect episode of all time, maybe you never would have even started.

2 (1h 3m 23s):
Yeah. But there you go. That's us. Thank you very much. Bradley. I have dashed been real fascinating. I love your story. It is. It is truly inspirational.

3 (1h 3m 35s):
Great, great. I'm happy to hear what yours is too. I think really what you're doing. Well, I think what we're both doing, it's this idea of this legacy and it's exactly like you said, if you don't tell it, then it's lost, It's lost and it could be lost forever. If you die with your own story. Yeah. It's gone. So thank you very much for doing this.

2 (1h 3m 58s):
It's a pleasure. Thanks For listening. I look

4 (1h 4m 1s):
Forward to the next one. Thank you for listening to my podcasts. If you have enjoyed them and your podcast app allows, please leave a comment and share it with your friends. The reason I got into this podcast, malarkey is solar could leave a legacy for my children and my grandchildren in the years to come. So they will know what I did with my life. I wish my grandparents had done the same for me. Unfortunately they didn't In my latest series on giving people the opportunity to leave their own legacy for their children and families for the future.

4 (1h 4m 44s):
If you have any criticism, positive or negative, and you wish to get in touch with me direct, you can email me at timheale@hotmail.com. That's timheale@hotmail.com. I thank you for your time and thank you for listening.