Everyday conversations regarding Mental Health in this show where we talk about these issues that affect everyone and we will also look at veterans and their issues.
You can include this email for listeners to contact myself or Carrie - prodigalsinfo@creeksideak.com
About Logan Hufford
I’m Logan, and I’m no longer in bondage to sexual addiction. Being able to say those words is the 2nd biggest blessing in my life, after salvation through Jesus Christ.
I spent years actively destroying my marriage, my life, and the lives of many others. I was an addict to pornography, affairs, and much more. I was, as Paul said, the chief of sinners. And I truly never envisioned a life where I wasn’t constantly mired in sexual depravity. It had become all I knew, in order to live on a daily basis.
In 2016, God began to change all that. My life & my marriage now is something I literally could not have fathomed, 8 years ago. And I sincerely believe my mission on this earth is to share with others, how that happened. Because it wasn’t easy, it wasn’t quick, and I didn’t do it on my own.
In this series we will be exploring all aspects of mental health looking at suicide, PTSD, wellbeing, cancer, bereavement, physical and mental wellbeing, care for the carer, self preservation, relationships and any other factors around the subject.
If you would like to come on the show to highlight and issue or just want us to cover and issue then get in touch, you can join in the conversation every week by watching the show and commenting in the comments box, subscribing to the channel doesn't cost a penny and if you click the bell icon you will get notified when we go live also click the like button as it will also help the channel and please share it with your friends.
Pre-Roll Post-Roll short version
Pre-Roll Post-Roll
Everyday conversations regarding Mental Health in this show where we talk about these issues that affect everyone and we will also look at veterans and their issues.
You can include this email for listeners to contact myself or Carrie - prodigalsinfo@creeksideak.com
About Logan Hufford
I’m Logan, and I’m no longer in bondage to sexual addiction. Being able to say those words is the 2nd biggest blessing in my life, after salvation through Jesus Christ.
I spent years actively destroying my marriage, my life, and the lives of many others. I was an addict to pornography, affairs, and much more. I was, as Paul said, the chief of sinners. And I truly never envisioned a life where I wasn’t constantly mired in sexual depravity. It had become all I knew, in order to live on a daily basis.
In 2016, God began to change all that. My life & my marriage now is something I literally could not have fathomed, 8 years ago. And I sincerely believe my mission on this earth is to share with others, how that happened. Because it wasn’t easy, it wasn’t quick, and I didn’t do it on my own.
In this series we will be exploring all aspects of mental health looking at suicide, PTSD, wellbeing, cancer, bereavement, physical and mental wellbeing, care for the carer, self preservation, relationships and any other factors around the subject.
If you would like to come on the show to highlight and issue or just want us to cover and issue then get in touch, you can join in the conversation every week by watching the show and commenting in the comments box, subscribing to the channel doesn't cost a penny and if you click the bell icon you will get notified when we go live also click the like button as it will also help the channel and please share it with your friends.
Pre-Roll Post-Roll short version
Pre-Roll Post-Roll
Speaker 0 (0s): Welcome to the Tim Heale Podcast. If you have the time, you cannot only listen to the episodes, but you can also watch all the shows, and you'll find the links in the description below. thank you.
Boom. I'm in the room. Good evening, good morning, good afternoon. Welcome. From wherever you are watching from now, you are here because there's probably nothing on the telly. And I'm coming to you live from the Old Heale Manor, well recorded from the Old Heale Manor.
And I'm your host, Lord Heale. Now You know what this show's all about. It's all about taking the stigma out of mental health, looking at people's wellbeing and getting the conversation going. Now, I'm always looking for guests to come on and tell their stories and talking of guests. I've got a guest coming on tonight. Now, this is a subject I haven't covered in the past, so I'm quite excited for that. So we deceived, we're gonna talk about sexual addiction.
So without too much further ado, what I'll do is I'll get my guest in and we can start that conversation. So here we go, Logan. Good evening, good afternoon. Good morning.
Speaker 2 (1m 26s): That's right. Still morning here in Alaska.
Speaker 0 (1m 28s): Good morning. Yeah. Coming all the way from Alaska. I mean, wow. You couldn't get any further away, I suppose, the other side of the world to Australia. But Alaska's a fair, fair, fair. Ike from, from good old Blighty. So Logan, welcome. Can you tell us a little bit about yourself and, and then we'll have that conversation about your journey. Sounds fascinating.
So the platforms, you,
Speaker 2 (2m 3s): I appreciate it, Tim. Well, I guess I'll, I'll, I'll start giving you just a little bit of background of, of who I am today rather than necessarily starting at the start of my life. So. yeah. Logan, er and I am no longer in bondage to sexual addiction. And that's something that for a lot of years, I never thought I could utter those words. I have been married now for almost 13 years, have an incredible marriage and friendship with my wife, Carrie.
We've got four awesome boys. Call my little monkeys. They're almost 12, almost 11, almost 10, and just turned eight right now. They're little stair steppers, 11, 10, 9, 8. and I have this wonderful life with, it's not perfect. It's not easy, but it's an incredible life. And it's, it's something that I absolutely should not have. I I, it's like I did everything in my power to throw all of that away and got myself trapped in a life, a cycle of sexual addiction.
Lots of other unhealthy behaviors as well. But I, I had built this terrible, awful life of hurting my wife and basically everyone around me and gotten to the point where I was, I, the way I word it is I was trapped in a cave, and I got myself in there. I made the choices to get in there. and I, I take ownership of that. But I had got myself so deep into that cave that I legitimately didn't think that there was a way out. I did not think there was anything I could do to not be trapped anymore. And so I just resigned myself to that fate.
I guess I'll never be a good dad. I'll never be a good husband. I'm just gonna continue to hurt people. And in 2016, God introduced me to a man, and then some, some men around him who showed me a different way. And I can dive into all that. But again, I, I cannot emphasize enough for me to be able to, you know, sit here today and, and talk about incredible marriage and family that I have is like, none of that should be there based on the choices that I made for, for so many years.
Speaker 0 (4m 23s): Wow. So, you got yourself into it. What was the, I mean, what was the catalyst that, that started you on that journey? What got you into sexual addiction in the first place?
Speaker 2 (4m 44s): That's something that's, that's kind of tricky because I, I can tell you what, what got me into it. And it's, it's incredibly boring. What I mean by that is, I, I've gotten to know so many men who have similar stories to mine of years of addiction, years of a double life, you know, years of hurting people around them, and most men that have that type of story. Now, I, I'm saying men because I literally, I work with men, obviously. There's, you know, anyone that's an addict oftentimes has trauma and abuse and And, you know, a rough early upbringing and, you know, no stable environment that I didn't have any of that.
I didn't need a tangible, concrete bit of trauma to push me. I had a very loving household. I never felt unsafe. I never felt unloved and I, don't say those words lightly at all. And yet, I was around nine years old. and I started looking at pictures in like JC Penny catalogs. I I was in a conservative ca conservative family where we didn't have dirty magazines. And, you know, I'm younger than some older than some.
This was dial up internet. This wasn't, you know, iPhones. And we didn't have stuff like that, right. So I started looking at JC Penny catalogs and women in lingerie, women in underwear. And, and, and I liked what that looked like. I, I liked how it made me feel. Didn't yet know what to do with those feelings. I just knew that I liked the feeling that I, that I got when I would see that. Well, that then progressed and progressed and progressed. It went from there to, you know, photos online to then hardcore videos of pornography, you know, mixing that with masturbation.
And then by the time I was in a relationship with my future wife, for the most part, most of this had been internal slash pornography. That was the manifestation of this sexual addiction. And of course, I didn't know that term sexual addiction when I met my wife, unfortunately, it, it went to a whole nother level because I was in a relationship with her. and I cheated on her for the first time before we even got married. And once I did that, the, the damn broke of what was not acceptable behavior, but behavior that I would tolerate from myself, I never thought I would do that.
And once I did that, and as terrible as I felt, and I did feel terrible, that gave me an even stronger high. That gave me an even stronger hit because of the risk taking, because of kinda the danger of it. And then I just started this whole double life of just constant affairs mixed with pornography. Eventually got to the point where I started hiring prostitutes. I mean, it was just a terrible, awful double life. And again, got myself into it a hundred percent, made my choices.
But I, I, it gotta the point where I, I, I don't know how to do anything else because I, my routines, my way of interacting with the world around me was, was as an addict who just, I'm just gonna keep chasing. 'cause I guess that's all I can do kind of thing.
Speaker 0 (7m 58s): And And that was that up in Alaska. I mean,
Speaker 2 (8m 1s): Yeah,
Speaker 0 (8m 3s): When you think of Alaska, it's, it is like a massive wilderness with like a Hamlet. Anchorage is like a small hamlet.
Speaker 2 (8m 15s): Right?
Speaker 0 (8m 16s): So, so were you able to find enough people, enough women to, to have affairs with and stuff like that at a time?
Speaker 2 (8m 25s): Yeah. And so, I mean, it's interesting. I, I actually just had this conversation with somebody the other day. This, this person was in Manhattan. He is like, you know, it's just two world, two different worlds, right? Manhattan versus Anchorage. Now Anchorage is, it's a small town compared to Manhattan for sure, but it is You know about quarter million people maybe, maybe more now. So there's definitely, you know, there's, there's people there. But yeah, I mean, where I live now is, is in Wasilla and there's, you know, 30, 40,000 people. But yeah, I mean, the short answer is yes, I was, I was a car salesman for, for most of the time that, that I, my sexual addiction was really, really getting bad for about six years.
And during that time, I mean, I basically prayed on any female that I came in contact with to get whatever I could get. If it was, you know, only flirting, then I would take that, if I could get to where we were, you know, texting and, and we could do some more, you know, I, I would take that. If it could become a full on sexual affair, I would take that. But I was a complete sociopath. I I, I just squeezed whatever I could get out of any woman kind of in my radius and I.
I'm, I'm saying that kind of nonchalantly almost clinically. And it's not to minimize it at all. What I definitely don't wanna do is glorify any of it. It, it's, it was a, I literally became someone that was a, it was a sociopathic, narcissistic, manipulative predator. And, and that's how I operated for years.
Speaker 0 (9m 56s): Mm. So I, I guess you got married in this time?
Speaker 2 (10m 3s): Yeah, I got married June 4th, 2011. And by that time, I'd already cheated on my wife multiple times. Mm. I confess. Did she
Speaker 0 (10m 14s): Suspect?
Speaker 2 (10m 16s): No, not at that time. I, I mean, that's another thing that's You know that, that's part of this too, is, I mean, I, I worked very hard to protect You know my diction. I worked very hard to not get caught and cover my tracks. And, and it was this, this, this dichotomy of like, this incredible risk taking and, and this incredible danger to everyone around me, even including myself. And yet I also was extremely risk adverse, which it almost sounds like those two things can't reconcile.
But I, it's almost like I, I'm going to, you know, throw myself in the fire, but I'm also gonna do whatever I can to, to try not to get burned. Meanwhile, of course, my family's getting burned. And, you know, all these women are getting burned. Yeah. But I'm gonna try not to get burned. Yeah. A year after we got married, almost exactly a year, I felt really bad. I mean, to put it lightly, And I was like, well, I, I, I'm never gonna do this again, even though that's ridiculous. I, I'd done it multiple times, and I wrote a letter and I confessed all these things.
I say all these things. I mean, it, I don't remember exactly what my verbiage was, but my, my intent was to come clean because in some silly way, I thought that I would just toggle that switch off and not do it anymore. And so I confessed to my wife. Of course, she's broken, she's completely heartbroken, crushed, doesn't know how to respond. And I, I don't remember exactly how many months it was, but I mean, had another affair and just, you know, just kept, unfortunately, just kept on that train.
and then she responded. You know, she would tell you now by trying to be a better wife, You know, trying to be sexier, And, you know, making sure that she wasn't gonna be nagging, making sure she's, you know, gotta stay in shape, And, you know, make herself more available sexually. And she was trying to, to do the right thing. She was trying to support me and love me. And, and she's, she didn't, I mean, you talk about stigma, You know that's, there's not, there aren't many, many issues I think, that are less talked about in the open, that are less understood than something like this.
How does a wife respond? you know? Yeah. If a man wants to change, how does he respond? And, and we just don't talk about it enough, which is what I'm, I'm trying to just You know, shout from the rooftops is like, Hey, I'm, I'm not the world's foremost expert, but I'm, I'm somebody who's been in the trenches, you know, and I and, and thank God I've come out the other side. Yeah.
Speaker 0 (12m 47s): So, I mean, most, most women would turn a back on you and walk away.
Speaker 2 (12m 52s): Oh,
Speaker 0 (12m 52s): Yeah. And never ever
Speaker 2 (12m 54s): Had every Right. Had every right.
Speaker 0 (12m 57s): And, and I guess it's the breakdown in trust as well. That's, that's probably one of the things that really hurts. So I guess you've managed to come through that together, but you, you carried on for a time. How long did you carry on? And, and, and how soon did the, the kids come along?
Speaker 2 (13m 23s): Yeah, so a couple pieces there. I guess I'll, I'll, I'll zoom in on. So as far as the kids, so we, we got married young, and we started having kids young. So, I mean, as I, as I know, I'm jumping around a little bit, but you know, as I've, by the time I wrote that letter, we'd already had our first kid, Elijah is our oldest. And we You know we had four boys inside of about five years. All of my boys were born before I got sober, before I got clean in 2015.
Though, jumping ahead toward close to the end of, of the addiction part of my story, in 2015, I had had yet another affair. And, and I, and by at this time, You know, my wife had, I, I'd con every time I would have an affair, I, I would confess to her again, in my head, I, I thought I was, you know, I mean, it sounds ridiculous to even hear myself say it, but I, I kept thinking like, I'm never gonna do this again. I feel so bad. I've never, and so she knew about these things, and each time I'm just stabbing her again and again and again.
That's not what I thought that I was doing. That's not what, maybe that's not even what she thought. But that's, that's what I was doing. And I mean the, the research shown Now, it, when a, when a woman is betrayed sexually, when she learns that her partner has been unfaithful, the the abuse that that is the, the trauma that is created in her from that ha has been completely marginalized. And that's something that, as I can share later, my wife, she got into recovery for that.
And she now gives back. She works with women for that. That's a whole other piece. But in 2015, I'd given her, or I, I'd confessed to her yet another affair. And she did something that she never had done before. And you, you know, you just mentioned earlier, like, she didn't walk away from me. She didn't turn her back on me, and she did something. Now, she didn't leave me, but she also didn't just continue to stay with me, status quo. She gave me an ultimatum.
And she said, Logan, if you do not get serious help, if you don't make real change, then I will be gone. and I will be taking the boys with me. And she was pregnant with her fourth boy at this time. 'cause again, I didn't, I didn't actually get clean and get into recovery until about a year later. So, you know, it still didn't toggle that switch off. But I did get, I started to, to dip my toes into recovery. Still didn't really get serious for several more months.
But I mean, that part of the story I always wanna emphasize. And, and for any woman listening that, that maybe has gone through something like this, or the incredible thing that my wife did was not staying with her husband. I, I'm thankful that she was willing to be gracious enough to give our marriage another chance once I made real changes. But the incredible thing she did was she stood up to her abuser and said, I can't control if you're gonna hurt me again, Logan, but if you do, I can control whether or not I leave and I will be leaving.
and I, I believe that she meant that. 'cause again, she is, she had never given me an ultimatum before. She does not just speak rashly. I, I, I absolutely knew that she meant that. And so, you know, started going to some meetings, started kind of dipping my toes. And, and I really would say, I, I started playing around with recovery. Didn't take it very seriously. The example of that is I met a man who would go on to become my mentor and I, incredibly pivotal man in my life.
I mean, literally, God used this guy to, to impact me, me in more ways than any other human on this earth, other than I suppose my wife and this man, incredible, loving, incredible gracious guy. I told him at one point, we, I, I'd been attending some meetings, still wasn't sober, still wasn't making any behavioral changes really. and I said, Hey, you know, could we get together for coffee every now and again? And, and in my mind, like I, that was really taking a step that would be seriously working on it, is like, besides a weekly meeting, like, I'm willing to even get coffee with him as if that was some big thing.
And he looked me dead in the eyes. He said, Logan, if you wanna get coffee every now and again, I don't have time for you. Mm. And that shook me. And that hurt me. Like that was offensive to me. And. then he quickly followed up and he said, if you want to seriously work on things, I will help you. I will walk with you and it will be hard work. And you might hate me sometimes. You're definitely gonna hate the work sometimes, but that's what I think you need. And so, I mean, nobody had ever given me an ultimatum like my wife did.
And nobody had ever talked to me like that man had talked to me. So those were two pivotal times where it was, you know, God kind of You know, splashing cold water on my face going, you're not, you're not gonna continue steamrolling everyone in your path that those days are done. 'cause that's what I'd gotten so used to. And so again, it was still a journey, but those were two huge pivotal moments in the, the summer of 2015. And then that would've been kind of that winter that I had that conversation with that man Rick And.
then he started mentoring me in May of 2016 and graduated from a, basically a voluntary house arrest program, may of 2018. And then, I mean, every recovery has, has never left our daily routines. Tonight my wife and I will be leading, I'll, I'll be leading a men's group for men struggling with sexual addiction. She'll be leading a group for women just like she attended for, for, or has attended for years. You know to heal from the Betrayal Trauma.
So this is, this is our life's work at this point.
Speaker 0 (19m 25s): Mm. So now you're in recovery, can, and, and you started going to these groups. Could you explain a bit about how these groups operate? What sort of conversations are had, what the process is of leading you through that part of recovery?
Speaker 2 (19m 48s): Absolutely. So there are different types of groups, and I'm a big believer in a group is only as strong as the people leading it and the people in it, you know, curriculum matters, And, you know, having resources and tools. Definitely those are, that those absolutely matter. But, you know, having men that have real healing, again, in this case, men ha having people in a group that have real healing.
I, i is such a big bonus because I went to some groups before and I and I guys are, you know, guys were, were trying to do what they could to lead it. But it's like, You know, this guy has a couple months of sobriety. This guy has six months of sobriety. And there just wasn't a lot of long-term healing, long-term change. and I, I, I mean, thank God that those people were even trying to, to, to put a meeting together. But it's just, it was, it was hard. you know, it was a hard infrastructure to really grow in. And so in these groups, it was called Prodigals.
The group that I went to with the man after that coffee conversation, you know, he took me to a group called Prodigals. And that's the group that I lead now is a branch out in Wasilla. One of the big things that we do differently. So number one, it is a Christ based recovery program. Now, God doesn't have to be a Christian to attend, but we do make it very clear. Like you're gonna hear about God, you're gonna hear about, you know, the change that has, has been made in my life because of Christ. But, you know, God doesn't have to share our faith to attend.
One of the huge differences in our groups versus any group that I've ever attended, SAA Celebrate Recovery, which are the, again, these are not bad groups, but they're, they're just, it's a big difference is most groups don't allow for feedback. They don't allow for what's called crosstalk. So if I show up to a meeting and I share how my day has gone, or how my week has gone, or you know, what the last bit of my life has looked like, I share, you want it to be a safe space, So you, nobody says anything, and then you share the next guy shares or whatever.
And it's meant to create a safe space. But what that allows for me to do, I'm an addict. I'm a narcissist, I'm a sociopath. I'm a manipulative master, you know, master trickster of other people. I've gotten really, really good at putting the wall over people's eyes, you know, And, that, that's how I got away with all this stuff. The last thing I need is a lack of feedback. I needed guys to poke me in the gut and be like, dude, what are you, what are you talking about? You said this last week, And, then he said, this This week. Like these do these, don't, these things don't match up.
Or Okay, Logan, you know, for the last four weeks you keep saying, You know I've struggled in this area, And, you know, but I'm gonna do better next week. Ha. What, what actual tangible behaviors have you changed since then? Like, what structures in your routine have you implemented or taken away? I mean, so they would get into the nitty gritty of like, what are the concrete things you're doing differently? Let's walk through that. And, and usually the answer early on was like, oh, I don't know. I'm just gonna try better. It's like, no, no, no. That's not how this works. I was not allowed to go camping without permission.
And a written safety plan that was like 3, 4, 5, 6 pages detailing what the trip would look like, detailing how I'm going to behave safely from a sexual addiction standpoint, but also from a life standpoint. Like, okay, I struggle with anger. I I'm gonna be camping with my four kids. How am I gonna behave in a way to not lash out in anger? you know, how, how am I gonna behave just in a safe, appropriate, healthy way in general? So, it absolutely, I mean, our program, our groups, they are a safe place for any guy to come and not receive judgment because he's done terrible things.
However, we do expect guys to take ownership. Like people did not, they, they gave me a safe place to come, but it's like, but we don't expect you to stay here. We expect you to work on things, to take ownership of things, and we are going to call you out. We are gonna ask you tough questions. We're gonna hold your feet to the fire. And if you, if you, you know, you act out, you break your sobriety. We we're gonna welcome you back with open arms, but we're not just gonna give you only grace and f warm and fuzzies.
It's like, we're also gonna get in your face in an appropriate way when you need it. And again, that's just like that. I'd never had that in my life. and I, certainly I would've bristled if anybody tried to give me that before.
Speaker 0 (24m 23s): Yeah. I mean, that's says, doesn't sound like overly a safe place when you've got blokes pointing out the areas of your ways and Right. And making sure that you know that you've done wrong and you need to do something to put it right. And they won't accept half-assed answers. They want to see tangible stuff. So. yeah, So.
it might be a safe place, but not a safe place. I'll get that
Speaker 2 (25m 1s): Would, so the way you said that, I, I've literally never, I, I never had this thought in my head before, but I, I love CS Lewis, I love the Chronicles. And in the books, there's actually, there's, there's, there is something I've shared before a about a different, a metaphor that I use for recovery that's in those. But you know, if anyone's familiar, Aslan, who the, basically the figure representing God in Chronicles of Narnia, somebody asks, is he, is he tame? Is he safe?
And the response is, no, he's not tame. Again, this is representing God, right? He's not tame, he's not safe, but he's good. He's loving. Mm. And that's kind of like, when, when you just said that, it's like that kind of is also that yeah, that would be true of these guys that have been a part of My life, You know, a lot of these guys have been a part of my life for eight, eight years now. It's not about them being nice, it's not about them being kind. Now have I experienced a lot of kindness and a lot of love?
Absolutely. I mean, these men have, have, have bent over backwards to help me and help my family in ways that went completely outside of just sexual addiction recovery. But it wasn't about that. Me having somebody just be nice to me and just be my buddy. Like Rick, my mentor, he has truly become my best friend outside of my wife. He didn't start out that way. That was not the point of the relationship. He has become a grandpa to my kids. He's become my dad, essentially.
And yet it's like that wasn't, you know, it wasn't that way for a while. It took time. And it started out as he's my accountability partner, he's my mentor. The rest of it, you know, by God's grace ha has come. But it didn't start out just as, as my, my nice friend.
Speaker 0 (26m 51s): So in all that last eight years then, have you ever fallen off the rails or thought about it?
Speaker 2 (27m 0s): A hundred percent. Ha thought about it, those thoughts have consistently gotten less and less intense, have gotten less and less kind of tangible and to say, fallen off the rails. I've stayed sober since May 19th, 2016, in the sense of, you know, so masturbation to pornography, sexual affairs, anything of that nature. I, those first two years, especially the first year, I put myself in very dangerous spots multiple times.
Absolutely did, did stuff where it's like, hold on, I'm, I'm like, you know, I'm doing what I'm, I'm putting myself in this area. What, like, by God's grace, I didn't break sobriety, but I mean, it, it, it was not a, even at that moment, I have a sobriety date and I get a coin every year, you know, celebrating the fact that fact, but it still wasn't a toggle switch off. We talk a lot about it's progressive victory, not perfection.
So I mean, it's, yeah, the You know the arrow is going up, but it, it's going up and down and up and it, but it You know it's absolutely something where three steps forward, one step back kind of a deal. But I mean, the, the, I would say it took about two years before I could actually like look myself in the mirror and confidently go, yeah, I don't have to cheat anymore. I don't have to, I don't need porn anymore. My right before, I graduated in March of, of 2018, so just a couple months before I graduated, I was just short of two years sober.
My wife and, and kids and I all went down to Arizona for and I. We were down there for a week vacation and is the, the first trip that I took all that during the entire program I was in, and again, had to do a big safety plan and all this make a, make two phone calls every single day, checking in with brothers. And she and the kids planned to stay down there for an extra period of time with family. And then I was gonna come back. And, I was home for three weeks. The fact that my wife was okay with me being home alone for three weeks, logically like, doesn't make any sense except there had been that much again, I mean trust between me and her, yes, that had been built, but almost more importantly, at that time in our lives, there was so much trust between her and the program between her and my mentor's wife who was mentoring her.
She knew that, yeah, it wasn't her job to fix me. It wasn't her job to hold me accountable. Other guys were doing that. And so during that three week period, I mean, again, I say voluntary house arrest, there was no legal structure to it. It, I didn't have to do it legally, but it, it was kind of like that when I would go to work, I would send a selfie to my mentor. When I would go to lunch, I would send a selfie to him, go back to work, send another selfie showing You know where I'm at and everything now, those kind of things, those aren't around anymore.
I, I, I, you know, I've, I definitely have weaned myself off of a lot of that stuff. and I don't think it would be healthy for anyone to try to live their life like that forever. But I needed to do it for a period of time. you know, I needed to relearn how to interact with the world around me and absolutely kind of crawl and then walk and then You know, then training wheels and then a bicycle. Whereas before I was just driving a Ferrari around like a 12-year-old kid, you know, driving a Ferrari around, banging into everything I needed to completely have my routines and my, the infrastructure of my life stripped away and then regrown organically.
Speaker 0 (30m 52s): So what would your advice be to anybody that's into this spiral of sexual addiction? How would you, what would you suggest to somebody if they are going down this route of getting deeper and deeper into it?
Speaker 2 (31m 16s): Yeah, I, I probably should think of like one really good answer. 'cause when I get, I, you know, a lot of times I've been asked this question, I don't have one specific thing. There's, there's a couple that I'll put out there. Number one, if a guy is struggling, admittedly struggling, but maybe in his mind it's only fill in the blank. Like, oh, it's only porn and I've never cheated on my wife, it's only porn. Or, okay, I cheated on my wife one time 10 years ago, but I, I, yeah, I would never do it again.
But like, nothing has actually changed for the better. He just has internalized everything to the guy that's minimizing, basically. Like, just recognize these things don't just go away on their own. Now, I might white knuckle, like maybe if I cheat on my wife once or twice and I I've not done it anymore. More than likely it's because, you know, I, I haven't been willing to like, take that risk necessarily, but I, if I haven't actually done any work to change my belief system to change the infrastructure of my decision making, there's probably other harms that I'm doing.
If it's only porn, I'm still putting something else and chasing after that. So I would just encourage that guy to know this doesn't just go away on its own. And it is progressive. I, I mean, be, it is an addiction. It is something where I, I have to chase more and more of a hit more and more of a harder version essentially. And then, you know, to a guy that has recognized, like, you know, for me in 2015, I had absolutely built up these terrible habits, but I definitely, I wanted a way out.
I just didn't think that there was a way out. So You know if there's a guy listening that has, you know, that recognizes like, yeah, I, I I can't get out of this life. I can't stop. Yeah, I would say what my mentor said, which is, it's not gonna be easy and it's gonna take some hard freaking work, but if really I
Speaker 0 (33m 16s): Do that, guess that's, that's the key to it all, isn't it? It's, it's recognizing that A, you've got a problem, right, and b then looking for a solution.
Speaker 2 (33m 28s): Yeah.
Speaker 0 (33m 28s): And I think that, and,
Speaker 2 (33m 30s): And real behavior change is not Yeah, yeah. And it's, it's gonna, it's not gonna come. I mean, I use the word tangible and concrete all the time because while this, there is a huge spiritual element, I believe to this, and there's a huge emotional component to this as well, but I need concrete and tangible behavior changes as well, not by themselves. Like those need to be coupled with mindset shifts. They need to be coupled with getting in touch with my emotions in a healthy way.
It's, it's, it's a mixture of those things. But you know, when I'm, when I'm working with a guy and I go, Hey, You know, so what did it look like when you, when you're in the situation? He's like, well, you know, I kind of struggled. Like, oh, what does that mean? I don't, that's fluffy, that's nebulous. That's what does that mean? Yeah. Like, well, I, I did this and then this happened, or, okay, so what are you gonna do differently? I, I'll, I'll try to be better. No, no, no, no. Not try to be better when this happens. Yeah. These are some specific correctives that you can work on, you know, implementing, but Yeah.
But you're absolutely right. A guy's gotta want to, to do things differently. He's gotta want a better life and recognize that it's an issue.
Speaker 0 (34m 41s): Yeah. and I guess that's, that's the key, is you've got to want it and you've gotta want it, really want it, and you really don't want to hurt anybody again. Right. Because that's what it does. Don't, it does hurt those that are closest to you.
Speaker 2 (35m 1s): Absolutely.
Speaker 0 (35m 3s): Well, Logan, I think that has been fascinating insight into an addiction I've not covered before on the show, so I just thank you so much for sharing that.
Speaker 2 (35m 16s): Thank you so much for the opportunity. Again, just to, to shout out for the rooftops a little bit.
Speaker 0 (35m 20s): Yeah. And is there anywhere that somebody is, that has recognized they've got a problem, where could they go?
Speaker 2 (35m 31s): So I, I am gonna, I'll make sure that you have my email, our recovery email. It goes to myself and it goes to my wife Carrie. So if a man or a woman again, 'cause obviously there's two different resources here. If a man or a woman is struggling, if they have questions, if they're, then they can reach out. Now, I'm not coming on here selling, you know, a coaching course or a book, right? I mean, this is, I'm just trying to shout from the rooftops. But if somebody wants to reach out, if they're like, Hey, I've Googled it and I can't find a group anywhere near me that deals with this.
I don't know of any counselor that deals with this, they can reach out. I don't know exactly what all that conversation will look like, but I'm willing to have the conversation. My wife is willing to have that conversation. But I will say there are, thankfully, the, the resources in this area have definitely grown a lot over the last couple decades. They're still very limited compared to how big of a problem it is. But they have grown a lot. I mean, so I can recommend books and, and things of that nature, but at the end of the day, I need humans in my life who are helping me.
I need humans who are holding me accountable. I need other people who care about me, ideally in person. But I, I also, you know, if somebody lives two hours from the nearest town, which again, I'm very familiar with up here, and there's no group within driving distance, you know, okay, we've, we've got Zoom nowadays. We all got Zoom. Yeah, we've all got FaceTime. you know, we've got options. So again, if somebody wants it, there's resources. And if, if you need help finding resources, absolutely you can reach out to me and I can, I can talk with you about what that would look like.
Speaker 0 (37m 13s): Fantastic. thank you so much for that insight.
Speaker 2 (37m 17s): Thanks again for the opportunity.
Speaker 0 (37m 22s): Wow, that has been fascinating. That's the first time that I've covered sexual addiction on the show. We've covered lots of other addictions, but that has really been insightful and I ho hopefully it's gonna be useful. So, it, anybody is out there that is overly sexually active and cheating and all the rest of it, and you recognize they've got a problem, then there's, there's always somewhere you can go.
And if not, the links to, to Logan is, will be in the description. So until next week, thank you for your time and I'll see you again. TTFN tartar for now.
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