No Need To Ask with Amani Duncan
No Need To Ask with Amani Duncan
No Need to Ask with author Erin Geiger-Smith "Thank You For Voting"
Welcome to Episode 7 of No Need to Ask podcast. My name is Amani Duncan and I will be your host on this journey.
Erin Geiger-Smith is a journalist who has written for the Wall Street Journal and the New York Times among other leading publications, and has worked at Reuters covering legal news. She graduated from Columbia's Graduate School of Journalism, the University of Texas School of Law, and the University of Texas at Austin.
"Thank You for Voting" is straightforward about how long Black Americans, women, and Native Americans, among others, had to fight for the right to vote, and about our current problems with low voter participation and voting inequality.
But it also highlights how we can do better, and features a fascinating group of people -- some well known, some who just saw a problem and decided to do their part to fix it -- already doing the work to increase voter turnout. The young reader edition has most of the same information, just in an age-appropriate way.
Thank You for Voting: the Maddening, Enlightening, Inspiring Truth about Voting in America
Praise for Thank You for Voting
"If you want to celebrate your essential right as a citizen and encourage others to do the same, Thank You for Voting provides an engaging and concise tutorial of what it means to cast your ballot -- past, present, and future. Read this book! (And be sure to vote.)"
-- Ann Patchett
Geiger Smith's "handy owner’s manual to the democratic process removes any excuse for not showing up at the ballot box. ... Intelligent, spirited, and especially valuable to budding activists and first-time voters."
-- Kirkus Reviews
"Illuminating and accessible"
-- Publisher's Weekly
"Thank You for Voting serves up the context and concrete action items every registered and to-be registered voter needs to be part of ensuring … increased voter turnout."
-- Denver Public Library Friday 5 at 5
Welcome to another edition of no need to ask podcast. My name is Amani Duncan, and I will be your host on this journey. For this episode. I have the pleasure of speaking with Aaron Geiger Smith, who is a journalist turned author. The book that we will discuss that Aaron wrote is one that I feel is so timely and so important. It's entitled. Thank you for voting. So without further ado, let's welcome Erin to no need to as podcasts. Hi Erin.
Speaker 2:Hi, thanks so much for having me. I'm excited to talk to you.
Speaker 1:Thank you for making yourself available, you know, with everything going on. Um, boy, there's a lot going on between this novel pandemic, you know, and all of the civil unrest that we're dealing with with black lives matters, and then we can't forget voting,
Speaker 2:Right? And that all goes together. It turns out things come together.
Speaker 1:It's time for change across the board. It's, you know, we are forced to look at the way we interact with each other and, and the way we live, we're forced to look at, um, our political environment and most importantly, who will be voted into lead this country of ours. Um, so thank you for voting. Um, it's received tremendous reviews and everyone it is currently available. Um, online, you could go to Amazon and as always, I will make sure there is a link, a direct link in the episode description. Um, but Aaron, I read that the overall goal of the book is to increase voter turnout by helping voters feel more educated, empowered, and inspired. Yes. I have a new voter first time voter
Speaker 2:[inaudible]
Speaker 1:We were talking and, you know, kind of just going through the importance of voting with him and you know, how the process works and pretty much addressing any questions that he had. And funny enough, the one question he had was, well, you actually had two questions. The first one was, where do I go?
Speaker 2:Right? Absolutely. Last question. Always. What do I wear? Oh, I like that. Listen. I think, you know, you want to consider when you're doing something important, you'd like to look your best, whatever
Speaker 1:Was, he was a little tentative about the whole process.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. You know, I learned so much writing this book, but one of the things was that can be intimidating. And of course it can, anytime anything you're doing for the first time, it's intimidating. Um, I also realized, you know, as we all explore, um, the different ways that privilege has infected, affected our lives and different privileges. One of the things that I realized was that my mom took me to vote as I was growing up. And not only did she do that, I'm from a tiny town. And so voting was you drive two minutes in front of our little library, walk in, you know, the poll workers. I mean, one of the things I say in the children's edition of this book is I enjoyed it because I'm a nosy person, which is why I'm a reporter. And so you walked in, I heard my mom chat with the poll workers. I listened for any good gossip. She would vote. And it took 10 minutes. So voting to me was this age of say you did and be a pretty easy thing to do in writing this book. I learned because there are hurdles in places like voter ID and just all these different things that you need to know depending on which state you live in. And if you've never done it before, it's strange and unusual. And, and you know, here, when I go to vote New York city, I don't know any of the poll workers obviously. And if you're a young person, you go in the poll workers may not look like you. They may are likely to be much older than you, right? So it's just a thing that we need to do so much better about educating and normalizing. And I think discussing what you do or don't need to wear is a great conversation to come as you are, is the answer. But, you know, it's all these, these little and big things we need to do so much better about talking about and starting to talk about to would be voters. You know, when they're younger,
Speaker 1:I completely agree. Yeah. It was just, it was so insightful because we, you know, my husband and I, we just didn't think he would ask these types of questions and then really, you know, through continuous conversation really nailed down that he was, he was, I wouldn't say scared, just extremely tentative of the unknown, which could sway a young person to avoid it completely. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah. That was, I grew to appreciate that as an issue so much, um, what 18 year old loves to go do something they've never done before that they don't know enough about what 40 year old likes to go do something that they've never done before that they know nothing about. Um, so that's why in the book, I focus so much on process. I mean, it starts with the history of how different groups got the vote. And I think that's so important to know. And then the middle section is, um, what gets people to vote, how you can help your friends. Um, and then I have explainers of voting topics that everyone finds confusing, like gerrymandering and polling media and, um, you know, so those things that we all have questions on. Um, but I made sure to end the book with a checklist of what you can do today, what you need to do 40 days out, 30 days out, 10 days out, and then on election day to make things easier for you. And to make sure you can convince all your friends to join you too. So practical was so important to me because the more I learned, the more I realized that's where we're not doing well enough for, for our kids and our friends and our colleagues. So
Speaker 1:Exactly. I love how you format it. The book I love that it is in three sections, you know, how we got the vote, how to get people to vote and no, before you vote, um, it makes it just really concise and less intimidating. I also, I, it really does. I also appreciate how, um, straightforward it is and how you, you know, discuss the history of voting, um, the long, you know, battle black Americans, women, and native Americans among, uh, many had to, you know, fight for the right to vote. Um, and then you, you know, you even touch on our current problems about low voter participation and voting inequality. We can literally turn to
Speaker 2:It's cotton was kind of our first eye-opener during[inaudible] and then, yeah. And then Georgia had extremely long lines. Um, you know, I think long lines are something that we're learning to look at in a better way, which is everyone can vote. And that's one of the best things about us, and that's true, but what's not true is it's not easy for everyone to vote. And, you know, long lines are voter suppression. You can't exactly one. Anytime we're expecting anyone to wait an hour, much less seven hours means something has gone wrong. It may be, it may have been a purposeful thing to try to keep people not from voting, or it might have been poor planning and under-staffing, or a mechanical problem with the machines, but whatever it is it has to be addressed. Um, and I think we're starting to all as voters and, um, citizens focus so much more on those issues. And I think that that's such an important thing, just understanding voter suppression and what it is and where it comes from is obviously the first step of making improvements. Um, and so that's why I wanted to highlight both the history of look, how long those fights to vote were and how specific and strategic people had to be, um, you know, with seeing the black lives matter protest. It's so easy to immediately think about the civil rights protest. Um, the violence at Selma that, you know, finally led nearly directly to the voting rights act and then even the women's suffrage, which I think so many of us look at as we see the parades and the pictures of women in these white dresses. And it's almost thought of as a great thing that happened, and it is small and we're nearing the hundredth year anniversary of the 19th amendment. And that is a thing to celebrate, but you have to also look at that. It was a 70 plus year fight, a full generation, multiple generations of women fighting for the vote. And, um, that movement was not without its racial difficulties at all. And, you know, as we celebrate the hundredth anniversary, it's so important that every time we talk about it, we note the giant asterisk that it has, which is it gave women all right to vote, but it didn't mean all women were able to vote. So it would be, you know, from 1920, until 1965 with the voting rights act were so many groups, including black Americans, obviously Asian Americans, native Americans, we're continue to not be able to easily vote and so many parts of the country. So it's just part of the book. I don't want to talk about the history when I talk about the history is wanting to celebrate and note those milestones, but point out how hard it was to get there. And then the things that came after that made it a continuous struggle, you know, episode this very second.
Speaker 1:I really appreciate that point of view because, you know, whatever movement, I mean, the black lives matter black lives matters movement is turning out to be the biggest movement in American history. And I always caution people, or I should say, remind people that you do have a right to know the history behind the history.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I respond really. I mean, yeah,
Speaker 1:Exactly. Because if you want to be an activist or if you want to do your part big or small, you need to, you know, be, come from a place of facts and knowledge. Um, so that you're able to speak confidently on any issue. Right. But I want to go back to voter suppression and just ask your, your point of view on it. Voter suppression is not new. It's, it's been a part of the fabric of America, um, in some shape or form. Okay. And so the fact that it's still going on now, I, I have to think, you know, is it just systemic?
Speaker 2:Yes. I think that's the short answer. Yes. Um, yeah. You know, from the beginning of the country, you know, even at the start, when they're considering who all should have the vote, it wasn't as if the idea to give women and black Americans, the vote didn't exist even at the start of the country, in some cases, women and free black men. Um, and then it was, you know, taking in a way as time went on. But the point is that the idea was there. I think in all of these situations, someone knows the right thing to do from the start. It's just not always done. It's like the someone knows the right thing to do, and it's getting to the point of where enough people decide to do the right thing. Um, and that is that ebbs and flow of our voting rights history. And any time that the vote was expanded almost immediately, some people gotten back rooms or at the very front of the room and decided how to narrow it. I mean, that happened after the 15th amendment, which gave, um, black men the right to vote. And, you know, that's was sort of the start of Jim Crow laws that lasted until 1965. Um, and still today, when we have voter suppression laws, they're often referred to as Jim Crow like laws. Um, and I think that's an accurate description. Um, so it is just unfortunately part of our voting history and, you know, for the basic reason that people who have power like to keep it. And I mean, it just is, is, is the way it is, which is why it's important. Anytime you vote to think about that elective elected official is going to do and how they think about voting rights. I really hope that part of the book is having people think about voting rights as part of a qualification for their elected officials. Um, you know, I very much stress that I I'm a democracy true believer in that I really want every single person to vote everyone. And so I almost, you know, any of these laws make barriers for young people or black Americans or Latino Americans or native Americans. I just, I like still, even after all these years at a cellular level, don't understand the idea of being American and then trying to take away someone's vote. Um, but I wish we could all come in and have that and then understand all the issues researching the history. It was, it's hard. It is a hard thing too. Of course you love your country. And then you realize, you thought you knew all of its flaws. And then you look at the timeline and it hits you like a ton of bricks, honestly. Um, but then the next side of that is I covered the history and then I went and to conferences with young people, getting people out to vote. Yeah. I mean, I went from truly kind of wrapping up the history, um, to really starting the full reporting of the book. And the first thing I did was go to, um, Yara Shahidi, the young actress and activist has an amazing organization called 18 by 18. That for both what was hoped to be a story that didn't work out, the luckily was able to use all of it in the book. And I just went from the dark history to this, you know, also it helped that it was in sunny LA and the grass was green literally. And with all these young people, more than a hundred young people from all 50 States, therefore the sole purpose of learning how to get their peers to vote and get them more civically involved. And it was just amazing. I mean, that is the true word for it. And so as dark as our history sometimes is when you look at these people, these young people, especially who are just doing their part to make things better. Um, and you know, one of the things that URS said at that conference is they just want to make it a little easier for young people to vote. And that's all that we all should be doing. And it is, there are very difficult things, you know, you need systemic change, you need changes in laws, all of these things, but if all adults and young people choose five friends or colleagues that they're going to make sure and vote, that's a game changer.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. Sometimes when we look at the stains that are on the fabric of America and decide that we need to say no more, right? The task at hand could feel so big that it may turn people off. Like, Oh my gosh, where do we even start? This is insurmountable. This is hundreds and hundreds of years of suppression. And the list goes on and on. So I always recommend to people start small, start small. Like it's almost like the pebble that you're throwing into the ocean. And at first it just makes this little, this little ripple, but then you continue to throw more and more pebbles, bigger rocks. And eventually you have the momentum to create a wave. Um, so what Yara said is so important, you know, it may seem like, well, that's it, right? Of course that's not, it it's just a starting point.
Speaker 2:Well, the other thing that if you do have someone who says, that's not it there's data to back up that it's in a huge way that any voting experts, you talk to says the biggest influence on getting people to vote is you it's you on your friends and your family and your colleagues because getting someone to vote, especially they're more likely to vote if it's a personal connection, which is why one of the only things that really makes a difference that candidates can do is having big canvassing, Kings knocking on doors. That's a little different the coronavirus era, but that's one of the things that everyone agrees works is the candidate or a representative or representative of the cause or whatever it is. You're trying to get past knocking on doors and talking to people and answering questions in a genuine way. And that flows down to you talking to your friends and family. And I made sure to say in the book, your online friends counts here. I mean, that's using social media is hugely important. And so that number one, the experts say that's works. So it's not a small thing. And then the other data point that I was most almost of all the, of all the data in the book, and there's a lot moved by, was that in 2014. So comparing midterm election, the midterm election, because presidential elections always have higher turnout across the board. So when you're, when you're looking at midterm, you compare midterm to midterm. So for 2014, 18 to 29 year olds, our youngest voter voted at 20% like terrible. Some statistics say 19 someday 21, but we'll say 20% in 2018 after the March for our lives movement, which was huge for young people in B building up the 2018 midterms. And, you know, climate change is a huge issue for young people. There was so much more people speaking out about that, just all the activism that happened leading up to the 2018 midterms that jumped from that about 20% to 36%. Wow. 16%. Wow. Turnout leap is massive. I mean, massive. So all of these young people that are doing all of this work just wanted to build on it. So the hope for 2020 is that that young people voter turnout, which is the lowest of any group has been for a long time. They're a hard group to get to vote. And again, I don't think it's because of apathy. I think it's because we as grown up fully grown up, don't do a good job of educating them. I don't think it's on them. I think it's on us. And I think everyone should, if you're going to complain about young people not voting and you're outside of that age group or at the top of that age group, by the time you're going to stop, it's time to do your part as well. Let's think of it as, as on you, but they are doing a ton of work in their own with their own peers. And so I have hope for 2020. I really, I really do. And I do.
Speaker 1:I do too. You know, it's, the youth will lead the way every generation, the youth stand up. And I am so proud of today's youth. Um, they are so bold, so vocal, they are staring racism and inequality squarely in the eyes. And I'm not saying that it's only the youth with these, uh, civil unrest movements, but they are the majority. And so therefore I feel encouraged that if this black light, just for example, the black lives matters movement is the biggest movement in American history led by the youth. There's nothing that can't be, as far as I'm concerned, there's nothing that can't, that can stand in their way,
Speaker 2:Still moving. How, um, that, that, that movement, the black lives matter movement, the participants span all races. And that obviously is going to be the difference maker. I'm a white woman and I have nieces who are also white and they're 16 and 18. And the brilliance that comes from their Instagram and the way that they speak about speaking out in the way that they do speak out, um, is something that I would have neither know nor thought. And I mean, I certainly have considered myself then and would now as someone who wanted the world to be a better place and hoped for quality and all of those things, but I was nowhere near where they are as far as expressing it and talking about being an ally and all of those things that it is clear to all of us now, the importance of those steps. I mean, it is, it is this really impressive.
Speaker 1:It is. Um, you know, and that's why, you know, I always say I'm cautiously optimistic because you know, like I stated earlier, we've been here before,
Speaker 2:Right. And there's so much work to do.
Speaker 1:There's so much work to do. And I've seen the stop start, stop, start. So I'm cautiously optimistic, but that's beginning to dissipate because of the consistency and the, and the fervor that is continuing. I'm just very encouraged. And I think the importance is to not separate the issues. Again, it could feel daunting, but voters voting rights is a part of, like you mentioned earlier, civil rights, it's not separate, it's not separate. So if we want equality across the board, if we want all lives to matter, voting goes right hand in hand. So I just feel like right now with everything going on, it can feel exhausting, but I actually feel, I I'm excited because I feel like we're at the precipice of change, real change. Um, not just, you know, ticking a box that we've seen so many times before people are, are realizing that their voices together is so powerful
Speaker 2:In both the adult book and the young readers version, which is eight to 12. I talk about taking your kids to vote, but not just taking them along, but questions that the kids can ask the parents and what the parents should tell the children. So, um, you know, if you're, you're a kid, I have to say, you know, the night before help look up where you're polling places, um, if you're the parent show them that you are, you know, go to vote.org or any of those to show that you are registered, tell them that you had to register 30 days in advance, or if you're at a state where you could register tomorrow, you know, state specific answers. Um, but also to tell your child when you would have first been able to vote, you know, as a, I'm a white woman in Texas, I would have been able to vote in the primary, um, just before the 1920 amendment. So you could vote in Texas as a white woman a little earlier. Um, and, but, you know, if you are a black woman in Georgia, we'll go back to there, say you two could have voted in 1920, but there were all these reasons. And, you know, if you can, as a parent, find out when your grandmother or grandfather voted, so you can kind of share that story. Um, when I was writing the book, my mom pointed out to me that my great grandmother was born in 1900. So she would have been among the first women who were able to vote, um, when she turned 21, you know, he was like on that. And I know I loved, I loved incredible. Um, so, you know, talk about things like that, talk about who you're voting for and not just president, but that you also vote for mayor. If you're voting for school board, that's something kids can really understand, um, you know, school board members make decisions on extracurricular activities and, you know, whatever it is that your kid is into that next, what you're voting for to thinks they understand city council members decide on, you know, if it's a stoplight or, you know, whether it's a new restaurant can have sidewalk seating, if you're in New York, you know, whatever it is, um, that's a little lower than the city council level. And you have just connect those things to things that the kids can understand and bring in both the history and current procedures. If you're in a state where you have to have an ID, tell them, you know, I have to bring this ID and this, this kind of ID works. Um, normalizing the process is very much. And then another thing that I forced my own son to do is to ask the poll worker a question, whatever it is, you know, can he feed the thing into the machine when he was three, he wants to ask a very important, relevant question about Batman, you know, whatever it doesn't matter. The point is that those people are there to help you and they're not scary. Um, and so, yeah, it's all it's about normalizing.
Speaker 3:And then, you know, you can kind of
Speaker 2:Make it a little fun by asking all these questions and then, you know, the next day to make sure and say, who won, who didn't, this is why, um, I think it's important for parents to tell their children who they're voting for, because I think that that helps understand, not just understand family values, but also what sort of decisions that those officials are going to make. Um, but you know, where possible I do urge to say, this is why someone might vote for the other side, you know, there are there issues like that they could understand, but it just helps them know why politics actually is important to their lives because it isn't politics, it's education, it's healthcare it's, um, it's, it's all of those things. And it is easy to be super annoyed with all of these politicians by the time phoning day comes, if you are seeing commercials constantly and science constantly, the news is overwhelming. So it's important to like take away that the politics of it and make the actual impact important. So I, I think there's ways to sort of make it fun for, for your kids and just something you do, you know, make sure you bring them to that primary race and the city council runoff and all of those things. So they also know that voting isn't every four years, it's really often in America. Um, and so keeping keeping that in mind is something I think is, is good for kids and will help them be voters, you know, start raising that 18 to 29 turnout rate. That's right. When you have an eight year old
Speaker 1:That's right. Make it matter while they're young. So I have two questions. So you mentioned, you know, you did, obviously you did so much research for this book and you spoke to so many, uh, young activists. Um, did you come across anyone that, or a group of, of young adults that were like, I have no interest in voting,
Speaker 2:You know, you would get that, you know, it do two answers. Number one, I was for reporting the book and figuring out what people are trying to do. Right. I was often at places where people were engaged, but certainly in, you know, I attended and really great event that, um, endeavor that talent media agency, Nashville called party at the polls, where they had, um, seeing in the morning, and then there was a walk so early boat, which was just such a great
Speaker 1:In Chicago with a chance, the rapper, they did a party to the polls as well.
Speaker 2:It's so it's such a great idea and something that people can be more of. I mean, I think we've also gotten so much better at using, um, or celebrities have gotten better at using their outreach and more specific ways. So not just showing up at a rally and saying vote, but turning it into action items, which is the most important thing I think. Um, but you know, certainly in the crowd at that, for instance, there were people who had been brought by friends to come see the free morning concert, you know, Sheryl Crow and Jason Isbell and all these wonderful artists, um, who were a little like, why am I here again? But I think, you know, the answer that I try to give to people, especially, you know, that that question comes up even from active of why should I vote if I live in it's all red or blue because of the electoral college. And people feel like their vote doesn't matter, but there's a few things that seem to help people get over that hump, which number one is pointing out something like, like you do as you're teaching your kids, pointing out something that matters to them on a local level and saying, you know, this is what we're voting for. The coronavirus has given us a very stark example of how important our mayors are, how important our governors are and not just this, but how much power they have, you know, Hey, make decisions that affect your lives. Usually, you know, all the time. That's true. It is true on a moment to moment basis right now. So is pointing that out to people that this is something that actually impacts you and that you can and should make a choice about. It's usually helpful. Also just helping people make a plan, you know, doing the, alright, let's look up right now. Are you registered? If you're not to register right now and then helping, if it's really close to the election, say, all right, let's look up your polling place. Let me help you do that. Um, do you have a job where you work a shift from 4:00 PM to 10:00 PM? Okay. Well, let's put on your calendar that you're going to vote directly after lunch that day, you know, really people who are uncertain about voting or think it doesn't matter. If you can just get past that first hump of this is why it matters. Then helping make a plan is really important. Um, and then the last thing for like the sort of bigger, why my vote, isn't gonna change the presidential election type argument, which, I mean, I think it helps to concede that. Yes, you're probably right. You're right vote. Isn't a presidential election. True. But when you go vote for president, all of those other things are on the ballot too. So while you're there, you might as well choose a president. Yeah. It's the top of the ticket. Isn't so important. Number two, to argue that your vote does matter is even if you're in a state that's all red or all blue and say you live in a blue state, but you're a red voter. Well, the elected officials should still know how many people feel that way because they don't just serve elected officials. It should not just serve those that voted for them. Their jobs is to serve everybody and they should know. So how people feel the only way if you live in a state, you know, opposite. If you live in a state that's mostly red and you'd like to turn it blue. Well, how was it ever going to turn blue if you don't show up and vote? And so the people who make decisions about how much money to put into races, how much dollars to give if they don't, that there are a significant number of people or a growing number of people or a tiny number of people they would like to get, you know, make a bigger number, a larger number of people would just, you're giving a way. I have Hamilton too in my head currently for my six year old, but I'm just like, phoning is your shot or shot to tell people how you feel and you gotta do it, you know, your phone does. It just does matter. Um, and I, I do, I am sympathetic to the electoral college arguments, but I just, you still got to show up, um, and represent your ideals and the ideals you would like your leaders to have. And the more people who think like you, the closer you get to those ideals being put into laws,
Speaker 1:I agree that this is such a great conversation. You know, I was a part and really helping out with the New York chapter of I am a voter. I love them. And I was so pleased when you shared that there's a chapter I'm talking about. I am a voter in what they're doing and using the members, uh, influence, uh, like you mentioned earlier with endeavor and their, a party at the polls in Nashville to really bring people together and, and possibly give them that reason why they should be, uh, participating, um, in all elections. Right? So,
Speaker 2:Sorry, I didn't mean to rap, but I, to talk brag, however you want to call it about, I am a voter a minute. What I love so much about that is, um, you know, one of the cofounders, Madonna, Dioni her, she wanted to normalize, voting in a way that it's just part of who you are and it's something you do every time. And I do think, I think that that language is powerful. Um, and so seeing that everywhere and having people that you idolize or respect or whatever you do, them saying it, and then for them putting it directly into action of registering to vote. And let me tell you, who's voting today. Let me tell you deadlines. And all of those things are just so important. I mean, you know, if everyone could say I am a voter, it would change the world.
Speaker 1:And even I am a future voter. I love that. And it just hearkens to what you were saying, like start them young, start normalizing this process at a very young age. And then it just becomes a, you know, a part of the fabric of their lives.
Speaker 2:It really is. And if you, you know, another thing that people who work with young voters, um, all say is that, you know, if you get someone to vote in the first election, they're probably gonna vote in the second. If they vote in the third, you're very likely to have a lifetime voter. You know, it's a, it's a habit, absolutely habit, um, you know, good, a good habit.
Speaker 1:We can, all we can all pick up. We all need to have this good habit. Well, Aaron, I just want to thank you again for taking the time out of your day to be on no need to ask podcasts. This book is so important. Friends. I will link it in the description. I encourage you to not only get the adult version, but also get the children's version for ages eight to 12 years old, we need to start normalizing the voting process. De-stigmatize it, make sure everyone feels comfortable. And if we get them at a young age and make it a part of their habit, then we'll have consistent future voters. And that is something that obviously we all need. So thank you for boating. Thank you, Aaron, for making this book available until we meet again, be safe, be well and go vote.
Speaker 4:[inaudible].