The Rochelle Christiane Podcast
Welcome to the Rochelle Christiane Podcast! This is the space where spirituality meets self-discovery and personal growth. I’m your host, Rochelle Christiane—your guide to holistic health, emotional regulation, embodiment and soulful alignment. This space is all about helping you reconnect with your body’s wisdom, master your emotions, and align with your unique energy using tools like astrology, Human Design, and holistic wellness practices. Each week, I’ll share transformative conversations and practical guidance to help you heal, embody your truth, and create deeper alignment in your life. This is your invitation to step into your power, trust yourself, and master your emotions. Let’s dive in!
Are you ready to connect deeply with your body, align with your energy, and unlock your fullest potential? Through my Wholistic Human Design Academy and one-on-one coaching, I help women like you embrace their intuition, understand their astrology and Human Design charts, and cultivate confidence in their unique energy. Together, we’ll create the alignment you’ve been seeking—whether it’s deconditioning limiting beliefs, attracting abundance, or finding peace within.
The Rochelle Christiane Podcast
259. Healing the Mind-Body Disconnect Through Sacred Practice
Kerri Hummingbird returns to the podcast to explore the profound journey of embodiment and spiritual integration. We explore the distinction between transcending human experience and fully embodying it with divine awareness.
In this episode, Kerry and I talk about:
• Embodiment requires feeling everything rather than bypassing difficult emotions
• True spiritual growth happens when we bring awareness into the body rather than trying to escape it
• Discerning between resistance (an invitation to explore) versus a sacred no (true boundary)
• Mental health challenges can be part of the spiritual journey toward greater embodiment
• The body serves as our navigation tool and database of wisdom for this incarnation
• Working with stone medicine and plant medicine as pathways to greater embodiment
• Evolution from personality-driven to soul-embodied living is a gradual, sacred process
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Wholistic Human Design Academy
Free 7 Day Challenge: Unapologetically You: Real. Raw. Authentic.
To learn more about Kerri's Inner Medicine Training or receive a free meditation pack, visit kerrihummingbird.com/innermedicine.
Where you can find Rochelle:
Instagram
Email: info@rochellechristiane.com
The Self Care Collective, created by Cassandra Juniphant and her company Ori Ara, is a space for real women, living real lives, and committed to real self-care. It’s not just another wellness group—it’s a community. A support system. A place where you can show up exactly as you are and evolve into who you want to be.
Where you can find Rochelle:
Instagram, TikTok, Website, YouTube
Welcome to the Rochelle Christiane podcast, formerly the Emotional Mastery podcast. I'm Rochelle, your host. I'm here to help you come back to your body, take charge of your emotions and live life on your terms. This podcast is a space for raw, real conversations about what it means to trust yourself, lean into your power and create a life that feels aligned and alive. We'll explore human design, astrology and other tools to help you understand your unique energy. More importantly, though, we're going to talk about what it means to actually live and embody these aspects. So each week, I'm going to share stories, lessons, guidance to help you navigate life's challenges and really own your magic. So if you're ready to step up, take control and show up as the most authentic version of you, let's begin. Welcome back to this week's episode on the podcast. This week, I have Keri Hummingbird on the podcast, and Keri was back on the podcast in. I believe it was 2020 or 2021, really, when I started, it must have been 2021. Then it was really when I started integrating guest episodes on the podcast, and it was just so interesting to see how our journeys have evolved where we're at currently. The conversation that we ended up on was a lot around embodiment, consciousness. We talk about the gene keys. Carrie integrates the gene keys in her practices and it's really so beautiful. It's beautiful the way that she speaks about embodiment and just reflections and mirrors and like the gene keys and all the things. So I'm really excited for you to listen to this podcast.
Speaker 1:I've been doing meditations, probably twice a day for about a month now and really just working on mental, emotional balance, you know, balancing my mind and my emotions and my body, and really embodying this practice and not just intellectualizing, which is part of my core pillar of my coaching and programs and everything like that. And so this morning I woke up and I was a little bit tired and in my head I was like, okay, I'm just, I can skip my morning meditation this morning. And I was like, no, I've been so good about meditating every single morning and every single night, sometimes midday as well, and so I did my meditation and I woke up and just like, the universe will always give you messages if you're open to receiving it and if you're looking for it. I, after I journaled and did everything and I hopped on and a friend had actually sent me this testimonial I guess the Joe Dispenza on his YouTube of this woman who cured, you know, her cancer, and she was talking about doing the meditations. But she said over and over and my friend had highlighted, I guess, the fact that so many times during this testimonial this woman said I kept doing the meditations twice a day, I kept doing the meditations every single day, I kept doing it and this was all you know.
Speaker 1:The meditations really started after reading Becoming Supernatural, Like I had meditated before and I had kind of like dipped in and out of it and I had just gotten to a point where I was like I'm just all in at this point, Like why not? And so it was interesting just the timing of that. And again, just like kind of highlighting and double, like zooming in on the fact that she was saying I did my meditations every day, twice a day. And then Joe was talking afterwards. He was like he again reiterated that of like her doing her meditations. He's like, and then you move from fear to neutrality and then neutrality to then this really expanded elevated emotion of love. And I've been finding myself kind of in that place of neutrality where I'm like, okay, I have moments of elevated emotions, but most of the time during these meditations now, because it's kind of become routine and I know the meditations. Maybe I need to switch it up and that's fine. But I am finding more a place of neutrality and I also want to just honor that, because when you're used to extremely elevated emotions and probably more low frequency elevated emotions, neutrality is actually really beautiful place to be at. And what I've noticed over the last month there hasn't been any super dramatic like oh my gosh, my world has turned upside down kind of change, but that neutrality is amazing.
Speaker 1:Actually, my mental health. I feel so much better in my mind and in my body. I'm not feeling anxious in places where I used to have felt anxious. I'm able to like slow down a little bit. As an MG, my energy moves so quickly but I'm able to sort of slow down a little bit. I'm able to really reflect and kind of take that pause in the moment. Like yesterday or the day before yesterday I had a moment where I noticed a pattern coming up and I was able to really witness it and be like okay, this feels really familiar and it feels like everything I'm air quoting everything in the moment. Like it felt like the thing that I needed to do, because I was like, oh, my mind was making all these reasons of like, oh, you know whatever it was, and I was able to witness that and be like, huh, I know this feeling, I know this pattern. I have repeated this many times and this is me being dismissive, this is me avoiding, this is me not taking responsibility and the act of catching that I was like, okay, what I'm going to do. Instead, I'm sitting here for just a minute and taking it in and instead I'm going to be honest. I'm going to be clear and honest with this person and you know it's a journey. I'm not perfect.
Speaker 1:There are still certain areas of my life where I know that I need to do some work and embody more of that, but it's allowed me to slow down and sort of just come in and be like, okay, what would my higher self do? Because the thing is, we have all of these looping narratives from childhood. Right, Whatever it is right. I made a reel today or a video talking about it. And, essentially, if you were told that you're bad, and essentially, if you were told that you're bad with money, if you were told that you're too quiet, if you were told that you're too loud, if you were told that you'll never achieve XYZ, like when you're told that over and over and over again, right, you're going to believe.
Speaker 1:It becomes a subconscious belief, especially when we're looking at that zero to seven age range. And so then what happens is you have the dream that you desire, right? You have the manifestation, you have the. You can tap into your higher self, Like I know, like my highest version of self. She's on stage and she's confident and she's curious and like all these beautiful qualities, and that's very different than the narrative I took on to believe who I was right. And so what happens is we have this limiting perception of self, because your perception of yourself is everything, but we have this perception of ourself and then the version of ourself that we want to call in, that we're stepping into that timeline that we're calling in. There is a disconnect and we self-sabotage, and we often self-sabotage in sneaky ways, because our body tells the story right. Our body holds on to the narrative, Our body holds on to the, whatever the limiting belief is. And so we have this moment where we want to call in this, let's say, an opportunity comes that that higher version of self has been calling in. We can sort of self-sabotage it.
Speaker 1:So creating awareness, being slow and in little ways like I was taking a walk today. Normally when I walk outside, like if I pass anybody, I kind of put my head down or I look at my phone, I just kind of like avoid it. But I always ask myself when I see someone coming at a distance and my initial reaction is to put my head down, then I, now I stop, I'm like huh, what would the highest expression of me do? She would hold her head up high and she would just smile and wave like right. And so now that's what I do. I just take a deep breath, I take a breath in and then I just smile, Right, and it's fine. And but it's just like it's in these little micro moments. But we have to create the awareness of the limiting pattern and we have to have these little ways.
Speaker 1:So for me, this morning and night, meditation, even though I'm in a neutral space, even though it's kind of like on autopilot at this point, the act of coming into myself for 40 plus minutes a day just coming in with myself and Carrie talks about meditation as well and the importance of it that is so powerful. It's keeping a promise with myself, it's honoring myself and my boundaries and how important these two times of the day are for me and my mental health. And then checking in, I do a little journaling practice at night, like what aligned action did I take? Where did I lose myself and my thoughts? What can I do better tomorrow? All these little practices. Then in the morning, after I journal, I take two minutes I created in the book Becoming Supernatural.
Speaker 1:He has this sort of like vision exercise. I don't know exactly what it's called, but you write down on one side the manifestations that you're calling in and then on the other side you write down the elevated emotion that you would feel. So for me it's like working for myself, freedom to travel, financial independence, like those things. And then on the other side it's like what would this feel? I would feel free, I would feel peace, I would feel joy, I would feel love, Right. And then I take two minutes and I just like sit with it. I look at this paper and I look at all those emotions and I breathe into my heart until I feel like the love or the excitement or the gratitude, Right, and I just sit with it for as long as I can withhold, for as long as I can sustain that elevated motion and then I move on with my day.
Speaker 1:But it's in these little micro moments that we really can make that shift and retrain our brain Because, again, we can't go from believing that I'm bad with money to believing that I am abundantly I'm so wealthy. It's, it's beyond belief, right, Like there's a disconnect there. We have to like, slowly take these little steps and it's like, don't give up. It's sort of like you know, when you go to the gym for like a couple weeks and you don't see any results and then a lot of people just stop. It's the exact same thing, Like it took you X amount of years to make these subconscious beliefs. We have to honor that and take the time to then create new patterns and new beliefs, but we have to continue to show up Repetition and emotion. That is what creates it. And so, like I said, I haven't manifested anything dramatic in the last month, but what I noticed is my mental and emotional health is so good right now. I feel so good in my mind and in my body, and that actually is everything is huge. So all that to say this episode is is really good.
Speaker 1:Let me know what you think after you listen to it, head over to instagram at rochellechristian or tiktok at rochellechristian um holistic human design academy. I actually moved it starting august 12th, and I specifically chose this date because this is the venus jupiter conjunction in cancer and I absolutely love that. So live round starts august 12th. It's going to be date because this is the Venus-Jupiter conjunction in Cancer and I absolutely love that. So live round starts August 12th. It's going to be so good. This is nine modules. We have live calls every single week, subconscious reprogramming, understanding our design, the gene keys, all the things to really embody and come into yourself and just do that nervous system work so that we can begin to reprogram and repattern ourselves and decondition right and remember who we are. Your Sacred Unraveling is a membership space for continued education if you have joined the programs or if you just want to jump in and join this membership where we're talking about human design. We're currently going through the gene keys, talking about being heart open and what that means. We're going through the Venus sequence with Leo season, astrologically based human design. Every link you need is down below, so enjoy the show.
Speaker 1:Today I have Carrie Hummingbird who is actually on. We were just talking about it. We were we. I had you on the podcast in 2020. We think it was. It was. It's been a while. I think you were one of the first like year of guest interviews that I had on here, so it's it's so nice to have you back on to talk about, I mean, different things but the same things, because I think this is still an extension of all the energetics that was happening back then. So it'll be really interesting to listen back to that first one and just see the shifts that we've had and where we've come. But I'll start with just letting you introduce yourself and refresh the audience. If you know, if if they don't follow you, if they don't know who you are, of course they can go back and listen to the first one. But we'll start there and then we'll dive in. Awesome.
Speaker 2:Well, I'm Carrie Hummingbird, hello everyone. I'm a, I am a messenger, I'm a mother, I'm a mentor and I'm a medicine woman, and so lots of Ms. I like alliteration and I've written a number of international bestselling books, starting with the Second Wave. We probably talked about the Second Wave transcending the human drama. That was around 2020. Around 2020.
Speaker 2:And then, after that, was Love is Fear, healing the Mother Wound, which was a two-year journey of healing my own mother wound and healing my relationship with my mom. And then it was Inner Medicine. So Inner Medicine is my latest book, inner Medicine, becoming One with Mother Earth for the Survival of Humanity, and it sounds like a really big title and it's really preciously true about the spiritual journey that I've experienced and that I've witnessed through my clients and my communities that I engage in, and so I'm really excited to talk to you today about that journey. But yeah, I didn't start off this way, you guys. I was in high tech for 20 years. I was a technical communicator, I worked in Silicon Valley, I was a really well-paid consultant. I also led open studio, so I'm an artist, I love art. So there's, you know things about me like that.
Speaker 2:And then in 2012, was my time of like, wait a second, something else is starting to happen and for me and a, a whole other chapter is opening up and I got to follow that thing and I have no idea what's going to happen and it's like if I don't do it I'm probably just going to die. So I have to go do it. So I left my marriage. I walked out of that. I walked out of psychotherapy, which I had been doing for 20 years weekly trying to fix myself. I eventually stopped taking the not feeling pills that they had been giving me for my diagnoses. I rewired myself from that diagnosis into like there was really actually never anything wrong with me, I just was ahead of the curve and yeah. So all these years later and the journey later, I am now much more conscious of what it means to be human and divine and on a planet that we are totally interconnected with everything and the indigenous wisdom that has been thankfully kept alive through this time of exploration of the mind.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I have so much to say about you know that I mean it. Just, I resonate a lot in your story and I feel like for me, actually this year I in early January, so not that far ago or not that long ago I quit my nine to five to go. It's like I feel so uncomfortable in this space, like I just it was something that I couldn't ignore. I was, it was exhausting me. I was coming home crying more than often, I couldn't really be present for my kids. Like the shift, just that alone. Like the shift of like now I get excited to hang out with my kids, whereas like for a while I just felt so drained that I was more frustrated than anything else, you know, and like that in itself was like worth it all.
Speaker 1:But like I know that part, it feels like to me that was my point of like something has to change. Like this is like a big it's. It just feels really big I don't know how else to describe it Right and like coming back to all of this and an opportunity, like a new chapter and you know. But the other thing is like now that I've been home, like I've been really productive. But I also feel like I just noticed today, like my energy feels a little funny and I'm like you know, I haven't been outside Like literally. It's talking about like connecting with mother nature, right, like I and I'm a Taurus sun too, so that's like so important, but like I haven't been outside that much and so I was just reflecting on that and this is like such a beautiful topic too. That's definitely reminding me I need to get out and put my feet on the soil, because that's literally like the most healing thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, when we reconnect with our mother nature, we reconnect with our bodies and you know, part of the the pathway that I traversed on my own journey, I think a lot of people are experiencing right now is that first we start off kind of filled up and kind of gunked up with the human experience and the emotions and we're overwhelmed and we don't know what to do with it and our mind is chattering away like a Siri gone rogue and we're like this human experience thing is so intense, you know, and so we just go, this has got to stop somehow, and we start looking for a solution for how to make the madness stop. And so then we find some path of spirituality and we go, oh okay, there's relief from the human experience. I can transcend this sucker and not feel it, and I like find my soul and connect with my higher power and get rid of these feelings or whatever you know is going on, and like clean myself out, and then I'll be good. I can just be neutral, completely neutral, and unattached to this human experience, and I can even do that so much that I just I don't even care about, I don't even think I'm connected to anything like government or, you know the earth or anything. I'm just like I'm a free floating spirit and eventually I won't be here anymore, so I'll just like bide my time and try to be as happy as I can during it. So there's like that stage and a lot of people are in that stage right now and I was in that stage too, right.
Speaker 2:So I used to tell people really insensitive things, like it's just part of the divine plan, so just get over it. You know, you'll just have to bide your time. Don't be so attached, don't be so emotional, don't be so connected to everything that's going on. Just ignore it, go about your life" Right? I used to say things like that to people when I was first on my path and I didn't realize how insensitive that was until I started getting embodied. And when I started getting embodied truly embodied that meant that my soul was no longer resisting being on this planet as a human being. Because, let's just remember, we've had many lifetimes on this planet with many different demises and many different experiences, many different traumas, many different ancestral experiences that we also inherit inside this physical vessel, and all of it's stored in here for us to uncover, reveal and heal, and until we get into every nook and cranny of this vessel and feel and heal it all. We are sort of floating around on the throat chakra upwards. We are sort of floating around on the throat chakra upwards. We're not actually experiencing being human, so it takes a little coaxing to get yourself into a space of like all right, I'm gonna slip myself down inside this vessel like a glove and put the whole thing on. I'm gonna feel everything. I'm going to experience my traumas from my past lives, you know.
Speaker 2:And so my first, my first really big experience reintegration of that was a life on the Trail of Tears, where I was a medicine person and I was there to be a guide for my people, and I became so overwhelmed by the pain of that experience of watching my people lose their entire way of life, walk a trudge across snow, you know, in the ice cold of winter, with little babies and elderly, like literally no care for people. It was such a shock to my system that I ended up thinking that the better course of action, the way I could support people, would be to leave my body and support people etherically, and that's a choice I tried on, you know, as a leader at that time, and so I took my own life so that I could be present in a spiritual sense and I could take a lot of suffering with me through the death portal. So it wasn't a bad choice. It was a choice. But now that I'm back in this incarnation, I had to feel all the things that I refused to feel the last time around. So I spent literally years in grief, years in grief in healing sessions and once that woke up inside me, I had to feel it to heal it. I got so many healings. I got so many past life regressions. I mean so many journals back and forth with that self of me from before healing that wound. And I will say I'm most of the way I can talk about it without bursting into tears. But there's still some pretty deep grief inside there. Especially seeing what's going on today and the further attack of Native American people triggers all of that inside of me again.
Speaker 2:So I think that what we have to realize is that there's no bypassing the human experience. We've got to feel it to heal it. And I know I just said a lot and I want to come back to you and give you a chance to respond, but before I do, there's one more thing on my mind. Know, I just said a lot and I want to come back to you and give you a chance to respond, but before I do, there's one more thing on my mind that I just want to say is that when we open up big spiritual energy, let's say we learn how to play with our yoni and get a lot of energy going and it feels really good, right, and then we do a lot of spiritual manifesting and then we've got an altar, we've got all these like deities and other energies that we're not even sure what they are on that altar and we're opening up all this big orgasmic energy and but we're still only operating from the throat up, we're not actually home. So it's like leaving your house with all the doors open for anybody, any energies, disembodied energies to come on inside and masquerade, as you and I also had that happen.
Speaker 2:Okay, because when my first spiritual awakening started by exploring my yoni and figuring out I could have these really big experiences, but I had no spiritual discipline, no protection, no understanding of myself, no guide, no mentor that was grounded to support me, and what happened was I started taking extremely heart-closed, cold, selfish actions that hurt my family deeply, and I knew I was doing it and I couldn't stop myself.
Speaker 2:It was like an addiction or like a compulsion.
Speaker 2:So I want to say, if anyone's having that experience right now of like you feel like you're not in control of yourself, or you feel like there's something moving through you that's not you or that's causing you to be a person you didn't think you were, that could be part of what's going on. Because until we're fully home inside of our vessels, until we've really gone through all the layers of the egoic protection system to support, to take command of this vessel as a soul, we, you know, we have to be mindful that there's disembodied energies that would really love to come in and take you over, because they didn't finish whatever it was they wanted to do on earth. So you know there's a lot to dump into this space, but it's I feel like it's really important with, especially with what I see going on in the collective. I feel like it's a lot to dump into this space, but it's I feel like it's really important with, especially with what I see going on in the collective. I feel like it's really important to get these messages out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so many questions. First, how did you like this feels like more than a memory that you had. It feels like you were like within, like carrying this past life with you. How did you experience that Like? Was it something that you've always like kind of held within you? Or how did you come to like witness this life or remember this life and really do the work from that life?
Speaker 2:That's a really good question. So from the time I was a little kid, when I was a little kid, they used to have this commercial on TV with the Native American crying because people were littering. You know, I don't know if you saw that commercial, but when I saw that it really touched me, like it spoke to my heart in a way that like I would start crying. And I remember as a little kid telling my mom you know, I went to go to the powwow and my mom's like why, what is going on with you? And it was later in my mom, in our life, when my mom started doing the genealogy, the family genealogy, that she could not. There was a family lore that we were Cherokee and we had an ancestor that was full-blooded Cherokee. That was my grandfather's mother, and we could not prove it because she had covered it up, because during that time she could pass for white and she knew that the safer thing to do would be to write W on her census column, pass for white and then ensure that our lineage went on. Because you know the Cherokee and indigenous people, they play the long game, you know, they know their souls in a body, they know they're part of an ancestral line and they know, if they can just keep the ancestral memory alive, eventually there'll be a time and a space for it to flourish again. And so they knew that this would be a time period on this continent where there would be a lot of ignorance perpetuated, and so they just needed to get through this long enough for it to pass to a point where people could become more conscious, right, and we're at that point right now, seven generations after the drill of tears. So what happened was I knew all that and that was happening in the background, and it was always frustrating to me that we couldn't find the proof of that.
Speaker 2:But I started my shamanic path. I got led to a shamanic teacher after I left my former life 2012. And I started studying with that teacher. And then I started with another teacher, because it was like this is home, like this makes sense, why didn't I have this? From the time I was like in third grade, you know, like I don't understand why I didn't know this. And so, as I studied that, as I started moving that direction and I started studying with the Four Winds Light Body School, what started happening for me was I know that these indigenous lineages from Peru are supporting me, but I also know I have indigenous in my own ancestry and so I want to tap into that. I want to open that up.
Speaker 2:So I took a journey to the Smoky Mountains and I went to the only place that a visitor knows where to go, which is what? Like the visitor center and the you know, the Native American replica village and all these things. And I just walked in like, hi, I'm Carrie and I, you know, I need to find a shaman that can help me, you know, to get reconnected. And the first time I did that they all just looked at me like, oh Lord, you know, like here's another white woman that wants to get reconnected. I don't want to deal with this, cause it's. You know, there's a point of agitation here. It's like stop trying to steal our culture, stop trying to be us. You know there's a lot going on in that conversation. So the first time I went they didn't really help me. But the next time I went, I actually got connected with a shaman. So he just happened to be there. He didn't normally work there anymore. He just happened to be there the day that I was there and when I went, crying and by now I'm desperate, you know.
Speaker 2:By now it's like two years later and I'm like I have to be reconnected. Meet up with this guy and he says I'll meet you in the parking lot as soon as I'm done with my shift, in 15 minutes. And so I turn around with my boys my boys were with me this time and I start walking out and all of a sudden, this giant, softball size energy just through the back of my head and I felt it come in, like somebody threw a softball at the back of my head, you know, and I felt the energy. I felt it come through my whole body. I got instantly dizzy. I had to sit down. The trees started breathing, you know, and I was like am I having an, you know, an emulism or something Like what's going on? This is crazy.
Speaker 2:And I started my consciousness. I could feel it spreading and just starting to expand me, you know, and I couldn't think. That was another thing I wasn't able to think. I was like where's the thoughts go? And these competing aspects of me are like not knowing what to do, right? And when I went out to the parking lot I could barely function. It was like I had taken some medicine and the guy looks at me and he's like too many thinking, you have too many thinking. And he didn't say anything about the soul retrieval. But I knew what had happened because I knew it inside of myself.
Speaker 2:The more it sank in, the more it came in. I realized that that part of me had stayed on the Trail of Tears, had stayed with the people and had never actually been recollected. So as I collected that part, I reconnected myself with my ancestral lineage and so this would have been my grandfather. You know, my grandfather, like seven generations ago, is the one I'm now embodied and reconnected with, and it was also me because I happened to be my own ancestor, you know.
Speaker 2:So this is the stuff where, um it's. There's not a rational way of uncovering this information. It's kind of like you have to go inside of yourself. You've got to work with some. I had to work with plant medicine. I had to work with meditation and parts work you know, doing some parts work inside myself to talk to this aspect, get information. It took me a while before it was fully integrated and before I could just go.
Speaker 2:Okay, I remember that life. I remember the pain, I felt all the pain and at some point I was able to let go of a lot of that grief and the underlying anger, really, and the other feelings I have, and some of it is still I'm working on. You know, when more stuff comes up in the collective, that hearkens back to those times. You know similar points of view that were expressed that caused the Trail of Tears. As I see those things rise up in the collective, another wave of that comes over me sometimes and so I do my work. I get a healing session and I work through it and bring it back into peace, resolving it back into peace, not by avoiding the conflict, but by going through it, feeling it, letting it saturate me and moving through it to a new decision.
Speaker 1:Was it that shaman that threw the energy at you?
Speaker 2:yeah, and every so often he calls me, oh yeah, yeah, and I think he watches me from afar. I once asked him if he wanted to be on my show and he's like you know I don't like being a spotlight, he's not. You know, this is not a spotlight person, this is a person that's like. No, I just do the work of spirit and you know, I'm really not interested in being called out or interviewed or anything like that. So that's not how he operates. He likes to be in the dark, you know, like in the shadows, kind of like just doing his thing as a regular human. Every so often, somebody needs help in spirit and the ancestors tell him, and he does it.
Speaker 1:For that first like interaction with him. Was it more than just that, like blast of energy, or was that kind of like what he did? And then you parted ways.
Speaker 2:Oh no, for a while he was able to be with me for a long time on my journey, like several years. I would get healing sessions and people would go. There's like this native American guy who was just like walking around in your field, like in and out and around you, and he's. He keeps saying he has his arms crossed and he's like too many thinking, too many thinking. I'm like I know exactly who that is. Okay, yeah, I know exactly who that is. He's staying with me to help support the integration of the energy until I can remember myself.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, that's so powerful, I think, right now especially, you know, like you said, kind of looking around and seeing what's happening, and history has a way of you learn from it or you repeat it, and I think that it's as cheesy or as cliche or whatever that saying is. It's so true and I think that we're definitely experiencing a time like that and the whole embodiment, whatever that modality is, I think that gets you in your body, whatever that modality is, I think that gets you in your body, you know, is it's really actually being in it and it's so easy to. Um, my daughter recently she was dealing with some mental health things and, long story short, I agreed to to put her on antidepressants and I I know it's not a solution and I keep thinking this idea of like. I feel like I'm just detaching her more from herself right In this process and also she's 14. I think that there's an amount of her own decision-making right and this is her path and what she's chosen.
Speaker 1:And you said something about embodiment and that was kind of where my mind went right, where there's so many ways that we are taken outside of ourselves. We are, like you said, given diagnoses of like. You know, I'll always tell her you are not, that you're experiencing that Like. Don't forget that because it's important.
Speaker 2:That actually is really. I'm so glad you say that to her.
Speaker 1:She kind of rolls her eyes, but like, I continue to say it because I want her to hear it, yeah, it's a distinction, and so I'll speak just a little bit to that.
Speaker 2:How we identify ourselves is extremely important, and it's part of the journey. So for a while, I identified myself as a diagnosis. So for a while, I identified myself as a diagnosis, and what that did for me is it helped me to avoid responsibility for the mess that I was creating. It gave me a way to deflect my own shadow because, look, I can't help myself, I've got this diagnosis. It's not my fault.
Speaker 2:So for a little while also, I took for 10 years, 12 years, 12 years I took the not feeling pills, and what that did for me was it helped me to be way less reactive, thereby create way less drama. That then would lead to way less karma. That then I would have to really deal with later, right? So in a way it did help to stabilize me and I think when I met you, I was doing, or I had just completed, the Skills, not Pills movement and I was all like no pills, you know, it's all just a scam. And I've since also had a child of mine who we tried everything spiritually, energetically, you know everything and really at the end of the day he needed medication and that was also his choice. Now, will he stay in it forever? That's his choice? I hope not.
Speaker 2:I feel like it's just a part of the journey for some of us that get really overwhelmed by as the emotion center is opening up and as the heart is opening up. You know cause we're opening up heart consciousness and body consciousness. That's a lot to open up all at once, so like it can be overwhelming, it can be really overwhelming and you can drown in it, you know. So if you're find yourself drowning in it and you feel in your higher guidance or what your heart or whatever, is telling you, this would be a good support for now. Fine, you know, let it be a support for now, let it be an experience.
Speaker 2:And for me, with my son, I just thought well, he just needs to understand this, he needs to go and experience it, because the only way we can learn is by embodying it, by experiencing it, by feeling it, by trying it out. That's the only way. We can't like learn from other people. We can try, but really, when we're learning from other people, it's only confirming what we already learned, like they're just putting into words what we already experienced and we're going.
Speaker 1:I experienced that you know, it's really what's happening.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and I think with her, you know, when I look at like her charts, astrology and human design, like she's just very open, very sensitive and you know especially the energetics of like what's happening right now for someone at her age to be taking it and having no idea what that even means or that it's separate from her or anything.
Speaker 1:That was ultimately what had me, you know, agreed to like put her on it, because I felt like if she could at least have that baseline, just like you said, of not not being so reactive and not being like so caught up in it.
Speaker 1:Right, I do think that, um, I'm finding a way to say this, but I do think that there are certain things where that just taking the edge off like does serve its purpose, you know, and so I hope that for her, she'll have that baseline and then be able to build up and do the work on that and like release that, you know, and be able to come into herself and understand, like, how powerful she actually is and like how much that emotion, that, that that feeling sense of hers is like her superpower.
Speaker 1:But it does take. I mean, I'm 38 and I, you know, for me it's even taken up into the last few years and I still get overwhelmed by it sometimes, where I have to really discern and distinguish, like is this mine or is this somebody else's, you know, and in the moment it's really hard to do that. But being able to like, separate it and be like, oh, this is, you know, the collective or this is whatever it is Right, and let alone being 14, like not knowing what's what, like not knowing what's what, yeah, and restraint is a tool that takes a lot of practice and muscle.
Speaker 2:You know it's like working out at the gym. You know restraint is like doing your leg lifts, like you have to be able to practice and build that muscle. And you know, as a teenager, your hormones are going wild. You know like and especially at this time on the planet where you're also at the same time as your hormones are going wild, there's mother earth is just waking us all up and she's waking up the feeling sense. Yeah, and sometimes that you know, sometimes in the collective or in our lives, we experience a big brick wall that kind of smashes us apart so that we feel a lot of pain, which is going on a lot right now. But that feeling of the pain is actually what we need so that we know we're alive and so we're not just having a mental construct about what it means to be alive, but we're having a full body experience of being alive.
Speaker 2:It's just very different things, especially with the technology and everybody all inside there, because the technology is basically just affirming that everybody is just their mind. You know, it's like, why do you need the body? We just plug you into a machine and then you just live in there, you know? I mean, there's actually sitcoms or whatever about that. Right now it's like that is just disconnecting us from the totality of our humanity.
Speaker 1:Yeah, why do you think that is?
Speaker 2:Because it's painful and people want to avoid pain.
Speaker 1:Yeah, why do you think that is Because it's painful and people want to avoid pain.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I think, like I mean like from the bigger picture of things, like I, you know, even astrologically, I know, I like bring astrology into it a lot, but like, right now we're in this, you, this, the North Node is in Pisces, right, so we're moving towards what could be escapism, right, and then we have all this Aquarius energy going on, so it speaks a lot to using this technology to avoid ourselves, right, and I think that's why it's so important this conversation being embodied in your system, so that you're not outsourcing it.
Speaker 1:And I think that even with what's happening you know politically, or it would be so easy to like turn on the news or turn on social media and you're just like bombarded with all this fear-based stuff, right, and so, of course, then we're going to lean into things that take us out of that, because it is painful, right, there is, there is an energy towards it or that held within it whether it's from this life or a past life, right that we all kind of like have inside. So then I guess, like the bigger question is, then how do we come into our body and, like, re-empower ourselves and connect with this in a way that doesn't. Is it possible to connect with it and not overwhelm ourselves?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I'll just I'll say it's a journey, it's a process, right, there's a process and a journey. Everyone is in a slightly different place of the process. So if I talk about the process in a nutshell, I think it'll help answer that question. Is that first we're human and we're saturated by the experience and it's like, oh my God, this is so overwhelming, right? So then we go, we seek a remedy to not feel quite so overwhelmed, whether it's meditation or breath work or running or pills or talking about it, you know, we find some way to alleviate the intensity of it, right. And then we start realizing through some kind of spiritual path that I can, I can, I can can remove some of this pain. Like if I do my breath work or I do my running, I'll get runner's high and then I'll feel better. Or if I take these pills, I won't feel so intense. And eventually that leads to a spiritual path where you start to learn how to transcend your human experience by recognizing who you are, eternally right. So you go into this journey where you go, oh, I'm an eternal soul, I'm like beyond all this, like this is just one lifetime out of many. So like the part of me that's timeless and eternal is never gonna be harmed. So then you go into that realization, and that sometimes takes years or decades or lifetimes to get to that realization. And then at some point in that realization you might try to bypass your human experience. But transcendence is another egoic trap, because the whole thing is to avoid pain. So the courageous thing to do, and actually the thing to do to really be a divine human, is that you bring your awareness of yourself as a timeless being all the way down into the human experience and you let that open you to feel all of it.
Speaker 2:That's the part that many shamanic traditions deal with people. Which is why it's called a shadow path is because we look at our shadows, we look inside of ourselves, we find the discomfort and we head into the middle of it. We go through initiations, and this is what the Essenes did with Jesus. You go through initiations to provoke the fear, to provoke the human reaction, to provoke the shadows of your human consciousness, so that you can witness them, and then you bring it all with love and acceptance back into yourself. So that's how you embody your spiritual path, yourself as a divine human in a human body, and along that journey you realize that you are one with all of life on the planet.
Speaker 2:So if you are in judgment of a human, in judgment or pain of what's going on, probably it's because there's an unhealed part of you that never got a chance like I said from my trail of tears that never got a chance to feel that because they died before they could feel it. And you can only do the transcendence work inside a body. I should say that out loud you can only do your healing work inside a body. You can't do it once you're disembodied, which is why a lot of these souls floating around the planet that got stuck in the bardo, they co-opt other people's vessels to carry out the things that they wanted to finish and that may or may not be alignment with you, but if you are not exploring your shadows, you're leaving all these little doorways open for that to happen, open for that to happen. So if it's happening, it's not like there's a problem. It's more like it's an opportunity to ask yourself how did I let that in? What unhealed part of me was a resonant match to that disembodied spirit that wanted to do this kind of thing that's causing harm. Spirit that wanted to do this kind of thing that's causing harm, what part of me also, as a shadow part, was also doing that and never healed from it or never learned from it. So it's like you're partnering with this disembodied spirit for both of your healing right, and it could be an ancestor, you know. So it could be in your DNA too. So, yeah, it takes a lot of discernment. That's why restraint is the muscle. The primary muscle is restraint If you can restrain yourself and open yourself at the same time and let it come through, let it permeate, let yourself feel it and breathe and restrain yourself from action, while opening to the feeling and then stopping the storytelling. With this and as much as possible with this, you can just simply feel and then that will eventually, very quickly, you get good at it. It'll dissolve itself within a matter of minutes. So, like, rather than explore what it is and whose it is and all that, because that's another bypass to the mind the mind wants to like, say who? Remember? I'm going to tell a story for this.
Speaker 2:My one of my teachers, heather Ashomari, used to say most people get shot by an arrow and the arrow's in their heart and they're like who did this? Why did they do it? What's going on. How come they shot me? I can't believe they did that. How dare they? And meanwhile they're dying because the arrow is still in their heart. Like dude, first pull the arrow out. Like just don't worry about all that, pull the arrow out, feel the pain of that, heal yourself. And then later, if you feel like investigating it, cool. But like don't, that's a mental, that's another egoic trap to get you caught up in the investigation of it rather than just the healing of it. The feeling of it.
Speaker 1:How do we know if we've invited something in that's not ours? Is it just, like you said, the inability to control our responses, or is it something more than that?
Speaker 2:Well, a really good sign is when I was saying that some little part of your spidey sense was going, that's a good sign. Is when I was saying that some little part of your spidey sense was going, that's a good sign. Yeah, you know, like some part of you went, got chills up your spine, or like you got God bumps or something happened and you went oh, kibbe, jeebies, you know. Then that's a good sign that you've got one of those things. And then, yeah, shamanic healing will identify that and resolve it. Resolving it means figuring out what was the matching picture. You know, like there's Velcro has two pieces Right, so that has a sticky part and it has the other part that sticks on it. So if you heal the piece of Velcro that was the matching picture in you, that let that thing in and you clear it and you rescind your invitation, it can slide around your field all day long and look at you, but it can't do anything because you're remembering your sovereignty and you're now identifying who you are, who you are.
Speaker 2:The problem is most people don't know that they have that kind of entity attachment because a lot of times those get in when you're really young, in your family system and for a long time they've been sort of farming down family lines. That's why there's repeating patterns of alcoholism or sexual abuse, molestation, all of these things down certain family lines is because there's actual energies that and conscious energies that are kind of provoking those patterns in people. And so it's the same conversation as you in a different light. You want to say that there's an ancestral pattern and you'd like to clear it. I'm just adding a little bit more information that there's an energetic associated with it too, mm hmm, yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think that's a lot of people that feel called to this work. Now, I mean, you talk about alcoholism. That's been in my family, for I mean, it's crazy and I feel like I'm the one that's. I go back and forth with it but essentially releasing alcohol out of my system and that in itself has brought up so much, right Like I was completely sober for a year and, oh my gosh, it was the most confronting year, because it's like you can't hide from those things anymore. It's like you have to look at it and you have to do the work and you have to dive into it, because there's nothing to like take the edge off.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's nothing to take the edge off and also, like, all the underlying reasons why you did it are up in your face. See, that's what I'm talking about. Embodiment, that's shadow work. That's when you make a decision to pursue a course of action, you make a choice, and then that choice starts to open up visibility into what needs healing for you to shift that pattern.
Speaker 2:You know, I actually had somebody ask me this question the other day. It was so interesting. She said what about you, know, because it was a post about you can set your dreams. And she said, well, if I'm just in the now, then like, why do I need to dream the now? Then, like, why do I need to dream? And so it's because you're, you know, you're on maybe the part of your journey where you're just learning how to be present, right, you're just learning how to go with the flow, see, like, there's parts to the journey, right? So you're learning how to be in the flow and how to stay in the now and how to interpret the signs and how to check in with your body and your intuition on, like, where to go next. And you're learning how to open all that up, right, and you're learning how to listen. So for a while that's like that's appropriate. And then at some point, by the way, with that you're kind of just going along the book of fate.
Speaker 2:So everybody has a book of fate. It's written already and you can float along that book of fate without changing anything right, and that's fine, it's a good life. There's something wrong with that life. But for those of you who suspect there's something more, there is. It's called the book of destiny. Okay, so the book of destiny is unwritten and the only one that can write that book is your soul. So the only way that that book can be written is if you embody, which means the personality has to surrender itself to the soul, and everything likes to be alive and everything has been given the gift of aliveness. So you're asking an aspect of you to surrender its aliveness so that a greater aspect of you can take control of the vessel and be more present here on Earth, embodied, which is a huge sacrifice.
Speaker 2:And so there's a process of honoring the personality self, which is the one you start off as truly honoring that personality self for taking on typically the roughest parts of the journey on behalf of the soul. That deserves tons of honor and tons of love and compassion and that takes time, you know. So there is no rushing that process. And as you move through that process, the personality part of you becomes more like a hollow bone. And the hollow bone is so that the multidimensional aspect of you can flow through you unimpeded and fill you up from head to toe and move you forward. And then it's integrating and upgrading. I'm getting this right now. It's integrating and upgrading the personality part of you to be expressed divinely.
Speaker 2:So a lot of people want to go kill their egos, and that is the wrong approach, I was going to say not a healthy approach. You can try it and then see what happens, but usually resistance is encountered. But there's a whole different, energetic, with honoring the part of you, honoring the part of you that did not know itself as divine, that was merely a personality right which is a construct created by the soul. So the creation of the soul is still alive and it still has agency and free will and we need to honor it as such, has agency and free will and we need to honor it as such At the same time as reincorporating it, integrating it with the multi dimensional, timeless self so that they're merged.
Speaker 2:But the creation can't lead the conversation. I mean it can, but then we see what happens. Giving the creation an opportunity to learn to be divine I mean it already is, because it was created as a divine being right, but it doesn't know itself as that. So like giving that aspect of you an opportunity to witness itself as divine and sacred, that is the collaboration that facilitates the book of destiny to be written the collaboration that facilitates the book of destiny to be written.
Speaker 1:Beautiful the way that you speak about it how do you like if you have any practices because I think the hardest part is having the mind kind of just like witness or step aside right, we have got so many narratives that we believe to be true and you know we get emotional and then we immediately cling to this like thought process, right, and so how do you kind of like allow that to make space for the rest of it to come through?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So there's a beautiful teaching from the Cairo people. They have rainbow ponchos. They came down off the mountain in 2012. So the Cairo people from the Andes Mountains in Peru, they had this beautiful teaching. They're a people of fire, so what they do is they turn to the fire. The fire has the three flames of creation. It has the electric blue light of truth, the rose-colored light of compassion and the golden light of energy. It's the three building blocks. So if you're an artist or you've ever done any artwork, you know there's like three basic colors.
Speaker 2:We turn and we give everything to the fire that we're not sure about, and then we pull the fire back like right thinking, and they call it hotam yachai in their language. Right thinking hotam yachai. Pull the flame back to your heart. Right love hotam munye. And then right action hotam yankai. That's what they do in their tradition. So that's what I do.
Speaker 2:I always offer everything to the fire, even if I'm really certain that I know what's what I do. I always offer everything to the fire, even if I'm really certain that I know what's what. I remind myself that if I'm in reaction or in anger, or in trigger, or even if I'm really confident in myself and blissful and I'm disconnected from my heart. I see a lot of people right now like, yay, we won and we're victorious, but they're like not having any compassion for the fallout on millions of people. That also is an issue, right Like. That teaches you, shows you, shows me that when I'm like that, I'm not in touch with my heart and my humanity and my compassion. So I will offer all of that certainty, everything to the fire, pull the fire back and sit and listen and feel, really feel deep in my body.
Speaker 2:Meditation is the process of turning off thought, and we want to turn off the thought so we can be in the timeless and hear it.
Speaker 2:But at some point, contemplation is the new game, because what you want to actually learn to do is to track those things through your body, because your body is a web that holds all of these pieces of information and past life, traumas and ancestral and all the things, and it's like energetics, and so you want to learn how to track that web and find the source and then transmute it, alchemize it, and when you do that, the reason I do it this way and I take so much time and effort to do all this is because I've.
Speaker 2:I've witnessed firsthand that when I take the time to transmute things like that, feel it, to heal it, track it down, where is it located in my body, fill that with love, what color is it, what texture is it? You know what shape is it, what's the emotion inside of it, and I take the time to really track that and then offer it to the fire and fill it with light, what happens is that my perception shifts and I have an insight or a realization that brings peace to the situation within myself and outside of myself. So the embodiment piece, your body, is your navigation tool for this life. It's literally your home for this incarnation and your database, your data bank, your teaching tool, your. Everything is right here in this body.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's been a lot of my work over the last couple of years, I would say is really more so just like getting in tune with what the body is saying when something isn't aligned. When it is aligned because it's so easy, I think again, to let the mind dictate what we're feeling or what we're sensing. But like the ability to, like you mentioned contemplation and like I got full body chills just in that, right it's, it's coming in and getting curious, right, and just like, and like you said, that web, like watching it all happen in your system and like knowing that, like as you were speaking about that, right, I can feel like the truth of it, right. And then there's other parts where, you know, I can feel not a non-truth but just a resistance within myself, right, and I think it's discerning, even in your own body, what those things mean and being able to listen to them. Because, again, it's sometimes we're just like everything's like so fast that we don't really listen to what the body is saying, and so I think it's so powerful.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you mentioned resistance and and like learning to discern the difference between a sacred no.
Speaker 2:A sacred no is actually quite neutral. Resistance is a yes. It's like, go in there and there's something there for you. It's not about being right or wrong or anything. It's just like if you feel resistance, ooh, what is that? It's like, get curious about it, Go in, feel it, track it. Where is it in your body? What color? You know all the things what color, what shape, what texture like, what is the emotion? Where is it? It could be so fruitful to explore the resistance and then to discern.
Speaker 2:At the end of that process you might still go, oh, it's a sacred no, but I needed all of this to understand why. And then you might also get through it and go oh, I see why I didn't want to go on that trip, or I didn't want to sign up for that class, or I didn't want to. Oh, oh, I see. Now I'm so glad I said yes anyways. See, that's another thing like is a lot of people think that if it's aligned, it's just supposed to feel good.
Speaker 2:I have in my own journey and I can only speak for myself I have never found that to be true. Every time that I have leaned into the discomfort and gone and done the thing that I was like hemming and hawing and debating over it was always like, oh, I needed that. That was a huge up level. You know that was massive and if I hadn't have gone I would have missed out on all that. And yes, it was uncomfortable and yes, it was painful and yes, I wanted to avoid it because it was going to hurt and I was going to have to do some deep work. And I'm so glad I said yes to it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that. You said that. I have a current example of my own that has to do with that. That really helped me understand like everything that you just talked about with. It was specifically a relationship, and this relationship, this person, like just kept poking this like pain part of me and it kept getting triggered Right and and it was like the rest of it was great. There were so many great aspects of it.
Speaker 1:But throughout the relationship, when I came back to myself, I had like that sacred no, like I knew the relationship itself was a no, because it was calm. It was just I knew it. It wasn't there was no franticness, there was no fear-based. It was just I knew. But I chose to stay in it because exactly that like I could have run away, but then I would have experienced that same pain in another shape, in another form, in another person, and it was poking me in a way that I knew I was safe to do that work, as uncomfortable as it was with with that person. And so I think I feel like for me that was like a huge, exactly what you just said. Right, that's exactly right, yeah.
Speaker 1:I could have walked away from it, but I would. I wouldn't have learned the lesson had I not stayed in and experienced that poke over, and over and over, you know, until I knew that I can move through it.
Speaker 2:I love that you did that and that you practice the art of joining. You know, I studied the gene keys as well G, e, n, en-e-k-e-y-s, which is connected with human design, and we do that in inner medicine training. And that is the art of joining, because what you did was you got through the Eden loop. He calls it the Eden loop. It's the triggering back and forth of your mental body with your emotional body, with the other person's mental body and emotional body, and it creates this feedback loop. And it's because we've got stuck trauma right, and so when we actually are able to practice joining, we can move through that, and then it's cleared for good, like it'll never happen with anybody else, because you cleared the energy right, and so isn't it worth it to dig a little deeper, you know, and stay a little longer and work it out. So congratulations.
Speaker 1:Yeah, awesome, thanks. I don't think that he's quite let go, but I know like, for my part of it, I feel completely at peace, you know. And so, yeah, it, it. It really was a beautiful experience, you know, regardless of what it is now, but yeah, perfect.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So how do we like if anybody's listening and feeling really called to this work, cause I think if they're listening to this podcast or if they're here like this is calling to them. You know how do we begin to do this? How do we begin to come inside in a way that is impactful and I mean, I don't even know if safe is the right word, but because it's overwhelming, I think right when you're in it or you're starting it.
Speaker 2:Well, it's kind of like you want to pick a good guide. I know a lot of people are doing at-home medicine journeys and having variable results, right. So if you've done that, you're kind of like yeah, I know what that's like, you can DIY anything right. I personally have always chosen to have mentorship because people who are further down the path than me have a lot to teach me and I'm noticed in my own journey. It's been a lightning path when I work with other people and for me, in the work that I do and I feel embodiment.
Speaker 2:Work is shamanic in nature, I feel for myself, I feel like it is. I feel like because it's connecting us with our bodies, which is connecting us to the truth of mother nature, is our teacher, and I feel like traditions that have held a really high integrity to be able to maintain their cultures through this whole wave that we've been in for the last several hundred years. Learning from them is powerful and an unbroken lineage of Mother Earth teachings is extremely potent to be a part of. It just helps us to be guided by people who this is just secondhand for them, like they just know how to embody you as a soul and human body. They do it with their kids. I've seen a Wixotica shaman from New Mexico actually bless a little baby, connect its soul to his body and connect him to the mama earth. Like they do this with their people, they know how to connect them in their bodies as a soul at birth, into their bodies Western people. We have not had anybody do that with us and so we're having to do it much later in life.
Speaker 2:And so working with a lineage or a Western teacher because a lot of times they don't, you know, the language barrier is difficult. Working with Western teachers who work with them to guide you, you know, because their lineages support us beyond the veil, helping you to get connected in your body, I feel like that's the strongest path. I've seen many other shamanic groups pulled together from Western people who just said I feel called to do this and there's nothing wrong with that. It's totally great. And I've noticed that my own path of studying with indigenous, unbroken lineages is extremely powerful. Like I have have. It really has been lightning. I mean, I only woke up like in 2012 and here I am, so like.
Speaker 2:I think that's good proof in the pudding right that it works so I I think, um, that's what I recommend, and I'm sure there's plenty of other paths, but I only know my own path and I know I witnessed my students and how they grow through this and they're not ending up in the mental hospital and they're able to. You know, they're able to traverse um a lot of really uncomfortable things and come out the other side shining Like when they step into their groove. It's just like damn. You know, it's really exciting. Keeps me going yeah.
Speaker 1:Do you feel like it's possible to do this without plant medicine? Yeah absolutely.
Speaker 2:Somebody was. One of my students was telling me yesterday. So I was asking them like what do you? You know, I always have to ask people like what does this training give you? Like what is it actually doing for you? I know what it does for me and I witness you, but I don't know what it's actually, from your perspective, doing for you unless you tell me.
Speaker 2:And one of my students said who's done a lot of plant medicine was like this path is actually like bringing you, like a medicine ceremony without the medicine, like without ingesting the medicine. But the medicine is there. So there's a way that I've embodied all these beautiful plants on my path, like ayahuasca and plenty of other healing plants, right that because I've embodied it and I'm holding the container and I'm facilitating that people feel the medicine, like they actually smell the tobacco, like if I blew tobacco right now they would smell it on the other side, but we're like on Zoom, you know. So there's a way that if you embody these medicines enough, they sort of reduce the illusion of separation and the illusion of time and space and bring you your timeless self forward bit more. And that's the whole point of the embodiment. So I I feel like anybody who's doing that. You know, as you ask around, is there some things to say? Um, that would be a way to do it without plant medicine, like without ingesting it.
Speaker 1:But it is part of the path in some shape or form.
Speaker 2:Well, the plants have tons of features. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean the plants first. It starts with the rocks and stones. So in the Karo tradition from the Andes, this is what we do with people. We start with them with stones and, if you notice, most people start with stones. They go to the stone shop and they want crystals, right I mean. So it's just like the path.
Speaker 2:You start with crystals, you start with stones, because stones are the heaviest, densest energy on the planet. They can handle heavy, hucha, heavy energy and they can help you transmute it. And in the Andes mountains they practice what they call animism. Animism is a recognition of sacred objects, right Like the stone. Medicine is just a sacred object and it's a way to, outside of yourself, have a physical representation of an aspect of your psychology. And so that's what they do.
Speaker 2:They put them inside a medicine bundle. They call a MESA or a MISHA, and so we help people build a MESA or a MISHA with stone medicine that represents their gene keys. So what that does is the gene keys, is your soul's curriculum. It's like your it's. This outlines like you're dealing with the shadow of judgment in this lifetime and opinion and force. And this is all my chart and you look at it, you go that's been my whole life journey so far when somebody gave me that map, like 10 years ago, and you put that inside your soul'sOLE, your SOLE curriculum, and you have stones that anchor those frequencies inside your mesa, then the stones in the mesa and the medicine path because it's the ancestors can support you in integrating and embodying and moving up the ladder, you know, into some higher frequencies. You know like embracing the shadow and receiving the gift in the city.
Speaker 2:So it starts with stone medicine and then once you get through stone medicine, I feel, and you clear a lot of that outer layer of gunk, then the plants can come in. They're more refined. The plants are more refined, they're more they're from around the whole galaxy, are more refined they're, they're more they're from around the whole galaxy. You know, this intelligence is concentrated here on this planet to support us because this is earth school. So all of those plants have amazing wisdom to share with us.
Speaker 2:And so I started doing dietas down in the jungle, working with the ship people. So I've I've integrated and embodied several plants and every time I go on one of those dietas for like a week or 10 days, I'm embodying this medicine. That's like teaching me on the inside out these how to move through my human lessons. It's amazing. So, yeah, the plants are next. But if you're not ready for plants, if you're kind of scared about plants I know a lot of people are like, well, I see other people doing it, but I don't really feel safe or I'm not sure I want to do that Start with the stones, start with the crystals. You know you don't have to go directly to plants. As a matter of fact, if you do, it can be really intense, you know. So sometimes you want to just start with the plant, with the stones. You know stones and crystals are your friends.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think we can still do the work even with like non-psychedelic plants just like teas, right, like I mean, there's so many ways that you can use it. I haven't had like a full experience. I've microdosed for a while and that has, like night and day, transformed my anxiety. It's incredible, like I'm but I haven't done like any huge trips just because I feel like I need to be prepared and I want it to be right, not just, like you said, I don't want to be out seeking it because I know that it can be super intense.
Speaker 2:And if you've done your work when I say do your work, you've done your shadow work, you've embodied to a degree and you are aware of yourself and you know how to navigate the mental tunnels in your brain, then at that point you can move into plant medicine with a good facilitator and get way deeper than where you've gotten so far.
Speaker 2:Like it's kind of like you can go out to the ocean instead of hanging out by the shore and when you do that you reclaim more of yourself, more of that multidimensional part of you that can embody the plants, facilitate that embodiment. So it's not required to ingest them, but you can, because I've found out it's not, you know, just by trial and experimentation I found out it's totally not necessary for others to imbibe it. The spirit, let's say the spirit of tobacco is now totally, thoroughly connected with me, because I've done dieta to integrate it with the help of the shamans, integrate it into my body, so that now there's like a handshake between the spirit of tobacco and my body and the matrix within me of tobacco. So when I do a tobacco clearing with somebody, that's probably why they smell it, because it's so embodied and it's the spirit of tobacco and I've embodied it here I'm helping the person through their permission and they're getting that tobacco clearing from a distance or whatever, but there is no time or space. It's all an illusion.
Speaker 1:What is the power behind tobacco? Because I know I've heard of, you know ayahuasca and all these other different ones. I haven't necessarily heard like a ton, other than like cigarettes, but that's not what you're talking about.
Speaker 2:Not the same thing. No, no, the tobacco is a very it's. It's really the first plant that a medicine person works with. It is extremely powerful plant teacher. It is an energy that protects us from invasive energies. It deep cleanses and purifies our consciousness of heavy, dense energies that don't serve us anymore. And it's a prayer mechanism. So it's a vehicle for prayer and for prayer to be spirit. So a lot of times we'll take, you know, a mapacho. We'll take a mapacho and we will sing or say prayers into it. Then, when we light it with the spirit of fire and then we blow the medicine, now we're working with the spirit of wind to carry the prayers into the person's body. And when we've embodied this medicine, it's our teacher and we work with it and we've been initiated to work with it that's important. Initiated to work with it. That's important. Initiated to work with it by a shaman. It's extremely powerful. It's a good healing tool.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, thank you so much for sharing it. Honestly, it's so beautiful to hear your story and your experiences and just the way that you speak to all of this work, because I think that it is. It can be overwhelming, um, but you just speak to it with just this beautiful like ease and and um I know it's not easy, but just like um, just sort of an empowering um energy. So, you know, thank you for sharing that with everyone. And if there's any sort of like last message or anything that you want to share with people, like as they kind of like embark on this, that you think would be helpful, yeah, that'd be great.
Speaker 2:I'm folks, I'm still recovering from that really nasty cough flu thing that went through, so thanks for your patience. Yeah, so I teach inner medicine training, which is, as I said, supported by our CARO lineage up in the mountains of the Andes, also by my teachers, the Weeshottukah and the Shipipo in the jungle. So we have three lineages that we work with, as well as I'm a student of Toltec teaching, so my teacher's teacher is Don Miguel Ruiz, so I combine all of this together into inner medicine training, building a maze that we talked about with the gene keys, and also learning how to work with the elements and the animal allies, to embody yourself and to clear the heaviness right so that you can be more of your spirit, your essence. So that's the main thing we do. It's 18 months training because it takes that long to move through it without sending you to the mental hospital. You know, we want everyone to have like a gentle experience of waking up and, um, embodying. That's our goal as a gentle, loving experience, uh, softening your heart and coming into presence, um, without a whole lot of dramatic stuff. That's my goal anyway, with people. So that's what we do.
Speaker 2:We take groups to Peru. We do short little series classes as a taste of what we do as well, and all that's on the website kerryhummingbirdcom. And if anybody wants to learn about being a medicine person, I have a new series, actually Medicine Woman, that is on New Reality TV. So they have a lot of really cool spiritual. You might want to check it out. Rochelle. Yeah.
Speaker 2:You might want to be on there too, but they have a bunch of really awesome high vibrational, high integrity shows over there on New Reality TV and Medicine Woman. I walk you through the agreements you'd need to make in order to become one. Self-awareness is step one. If you're not willing to be self-aware, please don't start the journey.
Speaker 1:That is the hardest part.
Speaker 2:It is. It's hard to make some of that stuff.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's what I feel like. Looking around we all. It's like we've made things so easy to like to be the victim and to be disconnected. And I think that is the hardest part. You know, even with my kids I watch them. I'm like you got to take responsibility for it. I mean, you know it's not easy, but it's the only way.
Speaker 2:Our kids teach us so much, don't they? Oh my gosh, they really do, I know they really are.
Speaker 1:Well, thank you so much for being here and yeah, if you want to let I know you mentioned how they can find you. If you want to just repeat, like your website, instagram, and of course, I'll have it in the show notes as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so it's kerryhummingbirdcom. K E R R I hummingbirdcom. And if you put a forward, slash inner medicine, you'll get a free meditation pack. Thank you so much, thank you.