Here’s How She Does It (One Sweet Episode) - Betsy Hamm, CEO of Duck Donuts

Today's female CEO super-star, Betsy Hamm, joins Restaurants Reinvented to talk about franchise marketing, branding, community involvement, empathetic leadership, & so much more! 

Betsy is the new CEO of Duck Donuts, a successful donut shop franchise with 100+ stores worldwide. She entered the restaurant industry after working at Hershey Foods for 14 years. After that, Betsy started the formal marketing function at Duck Donuts, moved into operations, and is now the chief executive officer. From the time she joined the company five years ago, Duck Donuts has achieved 5x growth and continues to expand across the globe.

We're so excited to have a smart, strong, and courageous female marketer turned CEO on our show today!

Show Highlights
• The beauty of a franchisee brand 
Betsy & Duck Donuts stresses the importance of community involvement and their franchisees excel at being extending the brand locally, anything from donating donuts to schools to dropping some off at the local fire station.  The marketing "...really has to be from the franchisee's perspective ... getting them to really own the brand and elevate their game to help grow the brand and their store sales..." is the focus on Duck Donut's branding.

• What does a well-thought-out franchising model look like?
Hear how Betsy uses the predictive index assessment to find the right 'marriage' with franchisees that fit their culture and model.

• Why even small restaurant chains need marketing.
Betsy does a great job explaining how marketing and brand building helps even small restaurants build a bigger-than-life brand. She details the "free" marketing channels available, such as social media and others.

• Use social media to engage with your customers.
If you already receive lots of user-generated content on social media, why not use it to your benefit! That's exactly what marketers at Duck Donuts focus on, their customers' love. "We don't have millions of dollars in our marketing budgets. So we do have to be very strategic and also very engaged with our customers to maximize their love for us."

• Empathetic Leadership
The importance of being empathetic, realistic, and positive. As humans, leaders, and workers. Betsy focuses on constant communication with franchisees to help them get through uncertain times.

• From junior Marketer to CMO to COO to CEO! 
Not only is Betsy an experienced and talented marketer, but she also thrives in connecting the dots and uniting marketing and operations. Combining these skills turned out to be the key reason why the CEO asked her to replace him. She's now 4 months into her new role and we know she's going to do GREAT THINGS!

Tune in to hear her sweet & exciting story.

Resources
• Connect with Betsy Hamm on LinkedIn
• Duck Donuts
• The Biggest Challenges and Opportunities for Restaurant Marketers in 2021
• Refresh Your Brand (Now!) - (RR Podcast Episode)

Check out Qu's Annual State of Digital for Enterprise QSR & Fast Casual Brands

Transcript

Qu - Restaurants Reinvented - Betsy Hamm - Transcript

[00:00:00] Jen Kern: Good morning, everyone. And welcome back to Restaurants Reinvented. This is Jen Kern and I am your hostess for the show. And today we have a very delicious and sweet episode. My guest is Betsy Hamm, she is the CEO from Duck Donuts. And Betsy got into the restaurant industry through working at Hershey Foods for 14 years,

[00:00:23] in my, very close to my hometown, so really excited about that. And after that started working in marketing at Duck Donuts, then moved into operations. Now, three months in, she's now the CEO of the company. So this is just beautiful. I'm so excited to have you here today. As you know, I'm focusing on women, particularly marketers who have risen through the ranks and become CEOs.

[00:00:46] So Betsy, welcome to the show.

[00:00:48] Betsy Hamm: Yeah. Thank you so much. And I love that you're focusing on that. That's such a great, great topic for sure. 

[00:00:52] Jen Kern: Right. Well, we're going to talk about that a little bit. So, before we get started, I do, I actually do have a quick question for you about,... I mean, I'll have a lot of quick question. 

[00:01:01] My first question is really about marketing. I'm very intrigued around the fact that you joined Duck Donuts at a time when you were the first official, like marketing person at the company.

[00:01:13] Is that right? And that was five years ago?

[00:01:16] Betsy Hamm: Yes. Yeah. Five years ago. 

[00:01:18] Jen Kern: And it was a small, small, and growing brand at the time. It was, I think, 22 locations. And so I do talk to operators every once in a while who in this hyper-growth mode or maybe, you know, iterative growth mode. And someone said to me the other day, like, "I don't need marketing."

[00:01:36] Now, this is an operator. Yeah. It is one, one point of view, right? This is an operator that has 25 locations, fast casual, healthy food. I'm not going to give it away, but,... And, and he believes that the quality of the food and the experience of the food will bring people and the rest will follow and then word of mouth will get out.

[00:01:59] So, I'm curious what your thoughts are on that. Do you need marketing as a restaurant chain with 20 ish locations?

[00:02:06] Betsy Hamm: I mean a hundred percent. And while I agree with that person that those things are very important. You have to have a great product. You have to have a great experience because if you don't have those things, you probably shouldn't even be doing marketing because you shouldn't want it to drive anyone to your business.

[00:02:19] But, I think to me, that's the foundation that's table stakes. But then once you do have those things established, marketing means a lot of different things to different people. And I think the first piece of that is just identifying what your brand, what it looks like, what it sounds like, who you're talking to.

[00:02:32] And I think that's so basics and foundation that you have to get that stuff right before you're even doing things like advertising or going out into the community. But I can't imagine having any brand or any business for there wasn't some form of marketing. So I think identifying the brand, establishing the brand and then doing marketing is very important.

[00:02:52] And that could mean sure, spending money on social media or digital advertising, but that could also mean being involved in the community and sponsoring events and, you know, donating product and, you know, being involved for schools. To me, that's all pieces of marketing. Especially in food, I think that's really important for them to be involved in their local community.

[00:03:09] That's something we stress a Duck Donuts for sure. So yeah, so there's a lot of different elements, I think to marketing, but all very important, I think in order to grow and to be successful as any, at any brand. 

[00:03:20] Jen Kern: Right. So how do you think this particular operator should start? So, help us understand when you got to Duck Donuts, and I assume they were doing some sort of like local or guerrilla marketing before you got there, but I do remember you saying you were the first marketer there. You had this awesome background working for a global company that was not squarely in,

[00:03:41] you know, a, a restaurant industry, but obviously serving the food and beverage industry. That's a long track record, first of all. Kudos to you for staying there, it says a lot about Hershey company. And then you go to a restaurant and they have nothing, they have no like formal structured marketing. Where did...?

[00:04:00] Betsy Hamm: Yes. So it was a little bit overwhelming, but I think also a marketer's dream to have this brand I had been around at that time, the first locations opened in the Outer Banks in 2007. So, it had a few years to grow into somewhat of a brand and people who knew Duck Donuts loved it. But what really that company was trying to do was to take it

[00:04:18] across the, across the country and establish that brand presence. So, when I came in, it was kind of just taking a step back and realizing what they had, what did the logos look like, you know, what did the website look like, what were our brand colors, you know, what does the photography style look like,

[00:04:32] the brand voice... It really was kind of a mismatch. So it was really taking a step back and saying, "Okay, let's figure out, like, who are we? Like, what is Duck Donuts? What are we trying to convey? You know, what's our brand, personality, what are those characteristics? And how do we convey that to the customers,

[00:04:46] and of course, who are our customers? Who are we even talking to who's coming to Duck Donuts?" So, you know, that definitely took some research, of course we worked with an agency to help us get through that. And getting feedback from our customers and our franchisees. I think that was really important to understand, you know, what did make Duck Donuts special and why did they love the brand so much.

[00:05:03] And then taking all of those pieces and putting together really a structure and a strategy to the brands. That touched everything from, you know, launching a new website, new packaging for the donut boxes, establishing a voice on social media and making sure we had social media accounts. Even photography, you know, they're just obviously as a small brand, you don't have a lot of money to collect content.

[00:05:24] So a lot of the photography that we would see on like a flyer or like a little menu, the duck, the character, Ollie, who is our duck, which of course is a cartoon character. But then there was a lot of like cartoon donuts. And I'm like, "Oh my goodness, our donuts are so beautiful. We have to make sure that we're showing these beautiful donuts." Not like these cartoon looking donuts that obviously was not just telling the story of Duck Donuts and showing how delicious the product was.

[00:05:49] So, certainly identifying all of those things, working with the right agencies and then bringing in the right team members. I came from a really big team. And so when I started, there was, there was one person in marketing who didn't have any previous marketing experience actually. And she was doing the best that she could, of course, but certainly needed more structure and more guidance.

[00:06:05] So, you know, as we build out the brand, figured out who our partners and then hire the right team members. 'Cause I, I sat back after like 30 days, I had all these really great ideas and identified all these things and I'm like, "Oh my gosh, who's going to do all this stuff? Like, you know, I'm not a designer, you know, I, I know like what I like when I see stuff, but I certainly cannot design anything.

[00:06:23] You know, I'm not a social media expert." So, then it was really taking the time to build out the team to support the vision of where we really want to Duck Donuts to go. 

[00:06:32] Jen Kern: Wow. Wow. That's a lot.

[00:06:36] Betsy Hamm: Sometimes I realize how much we actually have accomplished. I mean, we have so far to go, but then I'm like, "Wow, in five years we've done so much."

[00:06:43] And we've grown significantly just from a sophistication standpoint of, of our marketing efforts and of our brand efforts. 

[00:06:50] Jen Kern: Right. Right. So what I, what I heard you saying where you started was really with the brand and teasing out, it sounds like the brand essence. Like really teasing out who, who they are, like I always say when I go to a new company that they have it. It's there. Just matter of fact that like teasing it out and getting really to the essence of who they are

[00:07:10] and why people should love this place. 

[00:07:12] Betsy Hamm: Absolutely. 

[00:07:13] Jen Kern: Right. So you started with the brand and you did a lot of inventorying of assets that they had and things that they had that you could use or change. And then obviously started building like around the team, around your vision and what you wanted to do.

[00:07:27] So how quickly or slowly did you move in terms of building the team? Was it like one a year, was it two a year? And then also part two of that question is budget. How were they with giving you budget? So I'm sure as smaller company not having a marketing team before paying a lot. I mean, we know margins are thin.

[00:07:46] How were they about that, like the budget side?

[00:07:48] Betsy Hamm: Yes.

[00:07:48] And that was one of my fears coming in was, you know, is there going to be the dollars to hire the team and, and to do the things that need to be done and luckily there was. And that's the beauty of a franchise brand is if you're doing well franchising, then you're going to continue to grow your revenues.

[00:08:01] You know, every month, every year we were opening new stores. So that certainly helps that to happen pretty quickly. The first year I was here, we hired three people. So we hired an in-house designer, a marketing manager and then shortly after that, we hired a PR person. So we did build out the team pretty quickly.

[00:08:17] I think it was another year later we hired a woman who was our intern. She ended up doing like our digital social content piece. And it's funny because then as I took on more responsibilities and, you know, we need someone to oversee marketing and, and so we hired a VP of marketing which I know is exactly three years ago because today's her three-year anniversary.

[00:08:35] So it took us, you know, up until... so that was what, three years into it then to hire a VP of marketing. So now we have an, you know, more of a build out team, more structure and of course we still rely on our agency partners as well for, from creative and branding as well as digital and social as well. 

[00:08:49] Jen Kern: Okay. So it sounds like the marketing team is about five people right now? 

[00:08:53] Betsy Hamm: Yes. 

[00:08:53] Jen Kern: Okay. Okay. And then let's hit on that budget question. How did you handle budgets? So that was a fear of yours coming in, like smaller company, "Will I have the resources as obviously a Hershey had or more limited?" How were they with you about that?

[00:09:07] Did you need to negotiate or ask or was it kind of built in there?

[00:09:11] Betsy Hamm: So with the staffing piece that was just helpful because of the growth of the company and continuing to open new locations. And then with the actual dollars that we use for, you know, building the brand, from advertising, that actually comes from the franchisee. So it sort of plays along the same lines.

[00:09:26] So they contribute 2% of their sales into add fund, brand fund. I think it's probably fair to call it a brand fund and that does not pay anybody salaries, but that's helping to pay for, you know, some of the tools that we're using, the social media campaigns, all the POP that gets shipped to them for every seasonal promotion.

[00:09:42] So again, as the company was growing, it just kind of helped to fill in and feel that from a support standpoint which has been, has been awesome. 

[00:09:49] Jen Kern: That's, it's such a great model that franchisee model. 

[00:09:52] Betsy Hamm: Yes. 

[00:09:52] Jen Kern: Well. Right. And I assume that's helping to keep the marketing team incentivized as well. 

[00:09:58] Betsy Hamm: Absolutely. 

[00:09:59] Jen Kern: The bigger the campaigns perform, the more budget you're going to have. 

[00:10:02] Betsy Hamm: Absolutely. Yep. And so, you know, our team is responsible from the brand from a national perspective. So, you know, I go kind of going back to Yes,

[00:10:09] even though we've identified who was Duck Donuts, what do we look like, who are we talking to. I mean, that's ongoing. So, you know, continuing to evolve and elevate, you know, we handle the social media presence.

[00:10:19] So again, going back to that brand voice and how we're talking, how we're engaging with consumers, so our team handles everything from a national perspective and then everything local really falls to the franchisee. So we provide them tools and resources, there's a website they can go to, they can download coupons, they can download flyers.

[00:10:34] We give them a ton of ideas on a weekly, monthly basis for local marketing, but it's really on the franchisee to be able to execute. And again, that kind of goes back to, that can mean a lot different things. Some of them may be spending money on some local advertising, but what we really stress is that whole being involved in the community. Having a presents, you know, donating donuts when the schools call and ask and drop your donuts off at the police or fire stations, but just doing things to support their local community.

[00:10:59] 'Cause we can't do that from our office. It really has to be from the franchisee perspective and, and they're locally owned and operated. You know, they're small business owners. So getting them to really own that and elevate their game to help grow their, the brand, but also their store sales of course. 

[00:11:13] Jen Kern: Right. And from what I understand, you're a hundred percent franchise. Is that right? Okay. So, so franch, let's, let's talk about the franchisee model a little bit, 'cause it sounds like you have a pretty successful one and it is really important, you know, in terms of marketing and, and obviously revenue for the company.

[00:11:31] I've heard a lot that, so franchisees can be very diverse, right? 

[00:11:35] Betsy Hamm: Yes. Definitely. 

[00:11:36] Jen Kern: So, how do you manage that? How did you have like a franchisee qualification program? Like how do you sort of like get the right franchise franchisees for your business that will buy into your model and be successful? Because this was one of the other things that I've heard pushback from operators with marketing is, "Well, we don't trust them to do the marketing."

[00:11:57] Right? And so it's like, "Okay, well then, you know, corporate can do, but if you don't want to pay it that..." 

[00:12:02] Betsy Hamm: Right. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. The franchisee model is so interesting because it does obviously help a company to grow much quicker, but you do lose a bit of control. Well, you know, it's just human nature, of course. So we are really focused on making sure it's there's consistency across the 105 plus locations that are in the US and now of course we even have international locations that are thousands of miles away, that you have to worry about as well.

[00:12:25] So, you know, having the right franchise partners is so important and I think we've certainly learned a lot through the years of, you know, what works, what doesn't. So when someone goes through that process, a lot of our leads come from somebody going to a shop and having an experience and being like, "Oh my gosh. Duck Donuts is amazing. I want to bring this to my hometown." So that really is still how we get most of our leads, like it comes organically because they had an experience with the brand. So, when they go through the franchising interview process, as you could say, of course, there's, you know, certain credit criteria that you need to hit hit from a financial standpoint, of course.

[00:12:56] But then having those conversations of making sure they understand what the model is and, you know, being a franchisee is really hard work.

[00:13:02] You know, you might not be making donuts every day and we certainly don't even suggest that, but you're going to be involved. You're going to be hands-on if your team doesn't show up at 6:00 AM, guess who has to go in and open the shop?

[00:13:12] So making sure they understand that having them put together a business plan to understand their thought process, how do they see this playing out you know, what are their goals and aspirations, do they want one store, do they want three, five and, and knowing what kind of team and structure and resources we're going to put behind that.

[00:13:26] So it's, it's an interview process essentially. And the interview goes both ways, you know, of course making sure that we're a good fit for them, but they're also a good fit for us. And we do even use The Predictive Index assessment, which is behavioral, which is very interesting. So just to make sure somebody will have the right approach. You know, we have a profile of what makes a good franchisee based off of our current successful franchisee.

[00:13:47] So, it's a process. And then they'll come in for discovery day and then usually after that, so we both decide, "Hey, do we want to, do want to get married?" Is basically how the relationship works 'cause it's, it's a long-term commitment and you know... 

[00:13:58] Jen Kern: Yep.

[00:13:59] Betsy Hamm: It's a commitment. It's long-term. So, so yeah, so it's a fun process for sure.

[00:14:03] But you know, that is one of the challenges is, is just making sure that we are giving them the tools and the guidance and the resources. One, for them to be successful, of course. But two, that it's a consistent experience. Because, you know, as like, as a consumer, if you walk into a Duck Donuts in New York or Florida or California, you expect the exact same experience.

[00:14:22] Expect the same product, you expect the store to look the same. I mean, that's the beauty of franchising and, and even just bigger, you know, QSR brands. So people love to know what to expect and the consistency piece. So, we do sometimes have to say, "Okay, well, you know, this isn't Jenny's donuts. You know, this is Duck Donuts and we have to follow these rules. And this is how we're going to work."

[00:14:41] And that's all part of, of what our team does in order to support the brand and, and help it grow and help our franchisees to be successful.

[00:14:48] Jen Kern: That's fantastic. I absolutely love The Predictive Index, which I'm familiar with. 

[00:14:52] Betsy Hamm: Oh, nice. Okay. 

[00:14:54] Jen Kern: Yeah. I love that because it's sort of like, that's almost like a personality test, you know? And it's like, "What's really your true DNA and how you operate as a a human?" 

[00:15:03] Betsy Hamm: Absolutely. Right. Look for drivers. What are, how are you going to approach things and what do you, what do you need out of life, essentially? What makes you satisfied? So it is, it's a really great tool for sure. 

[00:15:13] Jen Kern: That's brilliant. That's brilliant. That's absolutely fantastic. So, okay. So started with 22 locations five years ago. I just heard you say 105. Wow. Because last time we talked or maybe when I listened to you on Joseph's podcast Forktales, you know, small, you said 102, so you're continuing to grow, but even just,... You know, and we'll get to talking about you as a CEO, but don't don't gigging out on marketing here.

[00:15:39] So, 5 x growth in five years. Really? 

[00:15:43] Betsy Hamm: Yeah. 

[00:15:44] Jen Kern: I want to know how did you do that? What were the marketing programs there? If you had to say, "Here are the top three things that drove that success from a marketing standpoint." Obviously there's other factors involved, but you know, we're, we're marketers here, so we talk...

[00:15:59] What were the, what were the top three things that you did to help drive that growth??

[00:16:05] Betsy Hamm: I think the biggest thing was what we had just talked about where it was really establishing that brand and what the brand strategy was going to be and the brand essence. I think that was huge because it was a little different depending on where you saw the brand. So I think just from the foundation of establishing the brand and identifying who we wanted to be as we were growing up, but not forgetting where we came from essentially, was really important.

[00:16:26] And then I think it was probably the next piece would be a social media strategy and engaging with customers. People love Duck Donuts. They're very passionate. They're very loyal. And, you know, we're part of special occasions, you know, we're not... Of course people come and grab donuts on their way to the office or on the way to work,

[00:16:42] but, you know, we get to be part of birthdays and anniversaries and gender reveal parties people celebrate with Duck Donuts. And I think us really embracing that and capitalizing on that is one of our USP's is the fact that we are, we have a special place, I think, in, in customers' heart. So I think once we realized that through some research, it was really owning that and taking that to the next level and, and trying to identify what does make us different.

[00:17:07] You know, there's obviously there's a lot of sweets. There's a lot of donut, other donut concepts out but, really embracing our USP's of, you know, what for me to order when you come in, you're not going to see donuts sitting there.

[00:17:17] You get to pick exactly what you want. You get to watch the entire process and capitalizing on the duck piece of it as well.

[00:17:24] So that's kind of our purple cow, the whole Seth Godin, you know, what's going to make you different. We don't have huge marketing budgets and we probably won't for a long time. So just being really strategic about owning the brand and just capitalizing on that, I guess, and really engaging with our customers has been huge because, you know, we don't have millions of dollars in our marketing budgets.

[00:17:44] So we do have to be very strategic and also very engaged with our customers to maximize their love, their love for us. 

[00:17:53] Jen Kern: Okay. So brand I heard brand, I heard USP's what for any people that aren't marketers listening, unique selling points or unique selling points, essentially your differentiators. And then I heard social media. Are there... Okay. So social media, and I love how you're talking about social media, because you're not just saying, "We do social media." We do social media for engagement. 

[00:18:13] Betsy Hamm: Yes. 

[00:18:14] Jen Kern: Right?

[00:18:15] Betsy Hamm: Yup. 

[00:18:15] Jen Kern: If you're having an authentic conversation via social, great, and I can only imagine, like, when you're talking about social media,...I mean I've seen your donuts like, "Wow. They are the most probably photographic..." 

[00:18:28] Betsy Hamm: They're so beautiful. 

[00:18:29] Jen Kern: You can find, right. It's so... Yeah. What do people do now, today? All, all of us. We whip out our phone.

[00:18:35] Betsy Hamm: Yeah,

[00:18:36] absolutely. People love to take pictures of food, especially, and, you know, and especially in Instagram, I follow the Duck Donuts hashtag. So it's so fun to see people enjoying donuts and how they, you know, prop up the box or what they're doing with their photo or their little kids or people even use it on. It's like little sweet things like that I've seen a couple of times where, you know, everyone takes those baby pictures of every month of their baby as they're growing. And I saw one the other day where the baby was nine months and there was nine donuts in the box. And so every month they're doing, you know, a donut with the baby and it just cute, you know?

[00:19:07] So to be part of that, like to be part of people's pictures of their baby every month growing up, like that's fun, but every brand doesn't have that opportunity to really be in those special moments with their customer.

[00:19:19] Jen Kern: That is so fun. That is really sweet. Oh my gosh. And talk about user-generated content. 

[00:19:24] Betsy Hamm: Yes. Yes. 

[00:19:25] Jen Kern: People making their own occasions. I mean, you talked about birthdays and special occasions, but they're making their own occasions, they're talking to their friends about it on social, you know? Tagging you or not, who knows, but you know, if you got the right social listening tool, you can find it.

[00:19:39] Right? And then you get to amplify that for them. 

[00:19:44] Betsy Hamm: Right. Absolutely. 

[00:19:46] Jen Kern: And there's no, there's no better for me, like there's no better, I think, like honor than when I'm like engaging on social and then the brand recognizes me. 

[00:19:54] Betsy Hamm: Oh, yes. 

[00:19:55] Jen Kern: You know, and like acknowledges that they saw me, like loving their brand, because if I'm going to take the effort to do that and post pictures and I tag you, and then I hear nothing back I'm sorta like,... 

[00:20:05] Betsy Hamm: Yeah.

[00:20:06] Yeah. 

[00:20:07] Jen Kern: Right?

[00:20:08] Betsy Hamm: No, it's good to be engaged with your, with your fan base, for sure. It does. It does go a long way. People love that. And I have, I have a 13 year old daughter, so I know how much people love that. 'Cause she's very excited that or, you know, tagging whatever, you know, it's just, it's funny to see

[00:20:22] if someone does respond how happy it makes her. And probably strengthens her love for that brand too which is easy marketing. That's, and that's free. You know, it's just someone's time to do those kinds of thing. 

[00:20:33] Jen Kern: Right. Right. Well, I love the way you're talking about, you know, when I asked you sort of top three and it's always a hard question because it's always hard to find, like, what are the, you know, like the three things, but the way you talked about it was very strategic and thoughtful. You didn't go right to tactics.

[00:20:48] Betsy Hamm: Yeah. 

[00:20:49] Jen Kern: Which is, you know, I've been in marketing a long time. So that's a little bit my pet peeve these days is that I feel like a lot of CEOs and like business owners think of marketing as tactics. And my big, my purple cow is if you don't have the strategy and the brand and play like in place and strongly, you know, built with the USP's and the your differentiators, you're going to run cycles

[00:21:16] of tactics and spend a lot of... 

[00:21:18] Betsy Hamm: A lot of money. Yep. 

[00:21:19] Jen Kern: A not lot of ROI. And so if you get nothing else from this episode folks, pay attention to the focus on strategy versus tactics, because you wouldn't write to the strategy and like thoughtfulness of the true essence of the 

[00:21:33] brand. And that's leading you and that's, that's beautiful.

[00:21:36] That's a beautiful thing to see, so awesome. Okay.

[00:21:38] Betsy Hamm: That's a great point. And especially, I mean, we're, we're all just,... Good Lord, I can't talk. We're all overwhelmed with advertising and marketing messages and especially on social. And so, you know, I think everyone starts sort of starts to tune things out, so you have to have that really strong

[00:21:52] brand and that really strong message and make sure you're even talking to the right people. So it does resonate 'cause it's just easy to get lost. It's really easy to get lost. And again, going back to like, "Well, we don't have millions and millions of dollars in a marketing budget, so we have to be super smart about how we're even approaching what we are doing."

[00:22:06] And again, just trying to stick out and make connections with the right people that have the, have the one in the desire to, you know, go grab donuts at Duck Donuts. 

[00:22:14] Jen Kern: Yeah, earn the right, earn the right to be seen and heard and engaged by your, by your people, you know, your target audience. Like, like you're saying, you just can't take for granted the amount of messages we're all inundated with. 

[00:22:27] Betsy Hamm: Right. 

[00:22:27] Jen Kern: A hundred percent. Like, just pick up your phone and you've got 20 reminders right at the top from 20 different apps, you know. And if I'm going to spend the time again on social media, it better be awesome.

[00:22:39] Or you want to catch my attention. I'll just keep scrolling, scrolling. And again, then you're wasting money. So, awesome tidbits there and thanks, thanks for that. I would love to know too, so the 15 years that you were at Hershey, how did that obviously formative part of your marketing critics. I know you started, I think in promotions? 

[00:23:00] Betsy Hamm: Yes. 

[00:23:00] Jen Kern: Okay. Started in promotions, worked your way more sadly into corporate marketing and brand. How did your experience there, how's it helping you today as the CEO?

[00:23:11] Betsy Hamm: Yeah. So that's a great question. And it's funny 'cause I think back through those 15 years, how much marketing changed while I was there, you know? 15 years ago, it was very brand heavy, very TV commercials and, you know, that was like the big focus of our marketing campaigns is what's the TV commercial look like.

[00:23:26] And, and, you know, what's the focus of that. So I think back to those early days where that's just generally the approach for marketing was just creative. It was really focused on the creative piece of it. And, you know, through the years marketing as a whole, not just at Hershey, I think was getting so much smarter and analytical and we had more data. And, you know, of course TV still important, but maybe, you know, not as important as digital now and the engagement piece.

[00:23:49] And so it, it definitely had evolved, I think, so much in the last or the 15 years that I was there. And, you know, I think the great thing about Hershey, the way we were structured is we worked very closely with the operations team. So, you know, when it came to what's the focus of our messaging for this year, what's new at Hershey park,

[00:24:05] do we have a new attraction, who retargeting. We worked closely with the operations team which was awesome because otherwise I think sometimes marketing gets a bad rap for kind of being in their own bubble. Maybe not always being like, you know, like reality doesn't always strike the marketing team, I think. You know, when they're being creative and brainstorming, we get, we get that rap.

[00:24:23] That's just, you know, the way it has been through the years. But I think if you have the right structure in place, you have the right people on the team who can work collaboratively together that, "Hey, yeah, let's be creative, let's be strategic." And then what's the reality of this from an actual execution standpoint.

[00:24:38] So certainly learned how people think differently, of course, you know, so I think that was really good and certainly helps me now. And even helped me to get into that CEO role a few years ago is, "Look, I get how the operations team thinks and I can think that way too. I can be strategic, but I'm also really good at connecting the dots which sometimes I think is hard for some people."

[00:24:56] So, it's, it was definitely good to get that experience of, you know, starting from scratch, but then also being collaborative and understanding the big picture and what may work for marketing, why it doesn't always work for operations or of course the finance people. Or you know, making sure we could justify what we were doing from a marketing standpoint,

[00:25:12] like what does that ROI look like. So yeah.

[00:25:14] So it was very, very educational for sure. And I learned so much at Hershey during that time, on so many levels. But it really was to understand that big, the big picture and what the impact is or was of what we were doing. 

[00:25:26] Jen Kern: Oh, that's great. That is really great. Yeah. So it's clear, I mean, understanding that operations, I mean, marketing, the data of marketing operating in a silo. Way, God. 

[00:25:35] Betsy Hamm: Yeah. That happened. 

[00:25:36] Jen Kern: Way, God, and this has been a theme that's come up with a lot of the marketers that I've had on, on this show is really that tie in between, not just marketing and operations, but then also tech now.

[00:25:47] Betsy Hamm: Yes. Oh yes. 

[00:25:48] Jen Kern: If it's a bigger brand and they have three like heads of mark, you know, head of marketing, head of ops and head of IT, getting those three organizations and people aligned is what I see the most successful stowing. 

[00:26:01] Betsy Hamm: Yeah.

[00:26:01] And it's funny. I can't believe I didn't mention IT 'cause that is something that's certainly changed in those 15 years at Hershey too. I don't think I even knew anybody except the help desk, you know. And the first couple years at Hershey and by the end I worked with some of the IT team members more than I did marketing members or operations.

[00:26:16] I mean, we were working so closely together even, even during that time. So, and that's only continued to be important, you know, that, that we see here as well as our IT team and our marketing team having to work closely together. And there's a lot of gray. You know, sometimes it's like, "Well, does this fall to the marketing team?

[00:26:31] Is this the IT team?" You know, just, there's a lot of gray with the actual execution from a digital standpoint even, you know, menu and all that fun stuff. It's not like everybody can have these little silos and, and stay in their lanes, everyone does have to be super collaborative to be successful. 

[00:26:45] Jen Kern: Right. Now, did you have restaurant experience before coming to Duck Donuts? It's like, had you ever worked in restaurant? 

[00:26:50] Betsy Hamm: So I definitely worked in restaurants since I was 16. You know, as soon as I could get a job, I worked at Friendly's ice cream for, you know, high school and then worked at like a restaurant and bar throughout college and a couple of years after that. So it definitely had the restaurant

[00:27:02] experience from an actual worker employee.

[00:27:04] So I had never made donuts prior to coming to Duck Donuts, but I've learned how to do that. I'm, I'm a pretty decent topper. I'm not really fast, but I can make them look pretty. 

[00:27:13] Jen Kern: I'm sure. And so, so you see, you get to Duck Donuts and you're in marketing and you're building out the team and helping to drive the growth. Help our listeners understand, like, what was your progression? So, so you did a little spoiler alert, so you did run operations too, but, but talk about your progression through the organization, up to being the top dog with... 

[00:27:35] Betsy Hamm: Sure. 

[00:27:36] Jen Kern: Love that, you know, from marketing ops to CEO, what, what, what did that look like? 

[00:27:40] Betsy Hamm: Yes. Yeah. So it's, it's kind of crazy. And it's funny 'cause I, I think back to like, if somebody would have told me like six or seven years ago that I would be a CEO of an international donut franchise, I'd be like, "Hmm, that's a little crazy. I don't, I don't see how that would happen." So, you know, coming here and marketing was obviously a natural step for me.

[00:27:57] And then it was about a year and a half into the position. I was getting a good team around. And obviously the company was continuing to grow. And Russ, who was the former CEO and founder of Duck Donuts, had a great relationship with him. And he's like, "You know what? I think you need to be the COO." He's like, "You need to be over operations." I was

[00:28:13] like, "Really? You gonna let marketing person to be over operations? Like I'm going to tell people this, like?" He's like, "No." He's like, "You know, they work so hand in hand, they need to be more collaborative. We can't have silos." He had come from companies like many of us where maybe operations and marketing didn't always see eye to eye,

[00:28:27] of course. So I was like, "Okay." And you know, wasn't sure how that was going to play out, you know, but I'm like, "Okay, I'm big picture. I ask a lot of questions. I can connect the dots." So I, I'm sure, when I think I know I definitely can make operations people push a little bit, you know, because I am asking, "Well, why can't we do that?"

[00:28:43] You know, "Why, why can't that happen?" So, you know, but it worked out well and, and it goes back to having a strong team, you know, because the people around me were strong. It made my job a lot easier. And, you know, I didn't have to know the tactics of, of some of the in store execution, you know, that wasn't my role.

[00:28:59] But my role was to help to make sure we were focused on the right things and growing the right ways and, you know, asking the right question. So, was in that role for a few years and in marketing ops do work really close together. So, it did work. So for the most part... it did work, I think. Hopefully I was gonna say that.

[00:29:13] And then about a year or so ago, Russ decided that he's like, "You know what? I think I've taken this company as far as we can go by myself." You know, he, he did not have franchising experience of food. He had healthcare experience and really started this on a whim which obviously he was also very smart about bringing people in that have

[00:29:30] the right strengths and the right roles. So he started talking to bringing in some private equity and, you know, looking for capital of course, and just that expertise of, we only know what we know type of thing. So, went through the interview process for that over the last really year. I thought COVID would maybe slow that down, but we kind of continued.

[00:29:49] So then on April, just a four months ago is when we did get acquired by NewSpring Capital, which is out of Radnor and Philly or Philadelphia area. And part of that transaction was Russ wanted to step down from the CEO role. So, and I knew this going into this and he's like, "So do you, do you want to be CEO?"

[00:30:08] And I was like, "Oh my God. Yeah, I do. I do want to be CEO." And like, oh my gosh. If somebody else would come in here, like that would be really hard because you know, it was, was really managing so much. So, of course he supported that. And then, you know, having the conversation, the interviews essentially with NewSpring, they're like,

[00:30:25] "Yeah.

[00:30:25] You're the right person to do this."

[00:30:26] So, Yeah.

[00:30:27] So it's been four months and, you know, it's funny because obviously that's I've been here for five years. So, that wasn't new, but just tying to have a different perspective on Duck Donuts and knowing that we're in rapid growth mode. So we're really trying to accelerate our growth. So just being really focused on, "Okay, look, I know the day-to-day

[00:30:43] I know what we're doing, but how do I stay focused on helping the team accelerate our growth through the next 3, 5, 10 years essentially?". 

[00:30:51] Jen Kern: Oh, wow. You kind of gave me a little goosies. 

[00:30:53] Betsy Hamm: Oh 

[00:30:54] Jen Kern: Story. That's I mean, it's a cool story. Like, "Do you want to be CEO?" Yeah. I mean, "Can you imagine?"

[00:31:00] Betsy Hamm: Right. Yeah. Okay. 

[00:31:03] Jen Kern: Let's do this. 

[00:31:07] Betsy Hamm: Right. 

[00:31:08] Jen Kern: I love like, as you're talking, I'm reflecting on like that curiosity you're talking about. Like, you clearly have this innate curiosity, they, you mentioned connecting the dots, they... Those are all such important foundational things for, you know, being as successful. And it sounds like you're a successful entrepreneur, right?

[00:31:23] And those, those things just really all go together to make, not just a great marketer, but a great business leader. 

[00:31:29] Betsy Hamm: Oh. 

[00:31:31] Jen Kern: And yeah. No, that's, that's, it's, it's really a lovely story, so.

[00:31:36] Betsy Hamm: Yes. I feel like I defied the odds, you know, small town and marketing person and yeah. 

[00:31:41] Jen Kern: Yeah. Yeah. But you got that Pennsylvania DNA. 

[00:31:45] Betsy Hamm: Right. Yes. 

[00:31:46] Jen Kern: Which we all... yeah.

[00:31:47] Betsy Hamm: Hard workers. Yes, definitely. 

[00:31:50] Jen Kern: Giving a shout out yet for Pennsylvania.

[00:31:55] Betsy Hamm: In Central Pennsylvania on the last night, you know, big Philly or big Pittsburgh where, you know, Central Pennsylvania ladies who have, have done great things. So. 

[00:32:03] Jen Kern: So, so fun. I'm so proud of our roots. I really am. Okay, so, so we heard your progression. What are you focused on today, now? What's a day in the life of a CEO of marketer turn CEO?

[00:32:15] Betsy Hamm: So I'm focused on growth and that means a lot of things. And really what I did the last, I'd say four months is listen a lot. So, again, I wasn't new, but just trying to have a different perspective. So, listening to our team, I have one-on-ones with everyone on our team, especially at COVID, not being in the office.

[00:32:30] Just felt like I was maybe disconnected from how everybody was feeling the day-to-day. Listening to our franchisees. We do a franchisee satisfaction survey, got lots of great data from that. As well as just now being back out on the road finally, finally getting to sit down with franchisees in person which we def, I definitely missed over the last year.

[00:32:46] So I'm really just collecting all of that to figure it out like, what are our pain points? You know, what are we doing? Well, what can we do better? Like, what are, what are our obstacles to growth? 'Cause when I say about accelerating growth, of course, part of that is opening more locations a year. So, this year we'll open around 30, 20, 30 locations by the end of the year.

[00:33:05] Next year, I want to open 40. And then I want to open 45 and then I want to open 50. So, and maybe that'll happen quicker, but you know, really want to accelerate those openings. But the other piece of that is even our support and the success of our existing locations. So, you know, raising AUV is helping our franchisees be more profitable.

[00:33:20] That's all the part of this growth conversation. So, what do we need to do to do that is really what I have been focused on. And we have a lot of great things going, but also what got us to a hundred locations isn't going to get us to 200 locations. So, identifying those areas of opportunity and doing what we need to do to, to be a stronger team. That's my focus.

[00:33:40] Jen Kern: That's very exciting. Just a little bit of, just a few things to focus on. 

[00:33:42] Betsy Hamm: Just a few things. And of course, you know, hitting budget and goals and you know, all that stuff's happening. And supporting the team, making sure our team's growing, you know, just like,... Oh, there's other little things too. 

[00:33:51] Jen Kern: Gosh, we'll talk about balance. I always like to talk about balance for a minute. 

[00:33:56] No, But okay. Well, all joking aside, that is a lot. And gosh, I was just meeting with an operator yesterday who was just lamenting with me like labor. "Gosh, this is so hard. Finding people to work and not just finding people, but you know, we gotta raise the, the, the wages we're giving now.

[00:34:17] And we've got to consider benefits. And we got to go find them. They're not coming and knocking on our door anymore." You know, and it, depending on what state you're in, they may still be in unemployment and it's it's, there are so many challenges with labor. And then you add on top of that supply chain. 

[00:34:32] Betsy Hamm: Right, right. 

[00:34:34] Jen Kern: Supply chain, but then there's supply chain things going on.

[00:34:36] Like one of his locations couldn't open because they didn't have a freezer. 

[00:34:40] The freezer hadn't arrived, they've been waiting for weeks. And then on top of that, you've got weird stuff popping up in different states around the Delta variant which everyone's like, "Wow." Depending on the day that you catch me, like some days I'm like trying to stick cotton in my ears. 

[00:34:56] Betsy Hamm: Yeah. We can't talk about that anymore. 

[00:35:03] Jen Kern: Okay. So yeah, I just, I just... 

[00:35:07] Betsy Hamm: It's a lot and that's absolutely what we're seeing. 

[00:35:10] Jen Kern: What are you doing to ensure that growth, to move the needle to really, you know, stay, stay same? 

[00:35:18] Betsy Hamm: Yeah, it's tough, and especially on our franchisees. I mean, they're obviously the front lines of that. So, you know, I think it doesn't depend, I think every state basically we're seeing whether is the shortage and especially now as kids go back to college. I know a lot of our franchisees were like, "Oh, gosh, I'm losing, you know, five people next week."

[00:35:34] You know, college is going back into session. So, it's tough. So we have people, you know, shortening hours, maybe not opening every day or maybe the franchisee themselves have to work in the store more often or just working with less people. So, and of course, yep. Supply chain challenges there, our prices have gone up significantly on some of our products.

[00:35:49] So it's just been tough. So I think everyone has seemed to be trying to keep an optimistic outlook and hope that like we can see the light at the end of the tunnel and I don't, I don't know where that light is. I mean, sometimes at least in Pennsylvania, I hear September, that's when some of the benefits run out.

[00:36:05] So, you know, that all remains to be seen. And then to your point with the background noise of of the Delta variant just really complicating everything. So, you know, I think right

[00:36:13] now, all we're trying to do is buckle down and get through it and to keep the team and the franchisees optimistic because there's just so much that's out of our control.

[00:36:21] You know, there isn't like a quick fix and there isn't like a great idea we can send out that's going to help them overcome the labor issues tomorrow. So yes, I think it's just trying to really buckle down and, and keep people optimistic and hope that like, you know, there is a light at the end of the tunnel, that soon, like next month would be great if we could make that happen. 

[00:36:39] Jen Kern: Please. How do you do it? How do you keep as a leader? How do you keep your teams, your people, your franchise optimistic, positive, not down in the dumps?

[00:36:51] Betsy Hamm: So especially obviously over the last year and a half I think that has been more challenging than ever. And I think back to, you know, the very beginning of COVID last year, where it was like, "Okay, how do we, how do we keep people feeling that there's hope, you know, or that, that, that we're gonna get through this?"

[00:37:05] So, I mean, I tend to be an optimistic, energetic person. So I hope that that sometimes is being able to be emulated through the team or through our franchisee. So I think the biggest thing is communication and, and keeping that positive tone, that positive vibe, but also being realistic. And I, I, you know, I didn't want our franchisees last year to think that we weren't being empathetic.

[00:37:25] We didn't want to come across that everything was sunshine and roses. We knew it wasn't. I knew it sucked. That was just how it was. So, but I think being empathetic and, and real about it, but, you know, trying to have that positive tone and just constant communication. I mean, I think that's what really got us through last year, especially with our franchisees was just constantly communicating with them.

[00:37:43] We were sending, I mean, I think at one point it was probably daily and then it was weekly emails, just that, "Here's what's going on." Or, you know, "Please look at this." Or, "How about that?" And, you know, just trying to do anything to keep them engaged and making sure that they were, they were okay and just checking in with

[00:37:57] people, you know, picking up the phone and saying like, "Hey, how are you? How's it going?" I think was really, really huge. 

[00:38:02] Jen Kern: Yeah, communicate and over-communicate, that's a big one for me too. And it's, you know, as you see these new generations of workers coming into the workforce, there's different styles of communication. That's what I've found a little bit disarming, right? Like, like the millennials don't really use their phone to talk.

[00:38:22] Betsy Hamm: Right. 

[00:38:24] Jen Kern: If it's a Tax maybe or Snap. 

[00:38:26] Betsy Hamm: Yep. 

[00:38:27] Jen Kern: But I like really reinforcing, it sounds like you do this too. Correct me if I'm wrong, but all the modes of communication that we have available, share you're going to gravitate first towards what's most comfortable for you. But let's not forget, like, the actual live conversation. going right now whether it's, you know, on a Zoom type of screen like this, or whether it's with a, in a phone or in person, but those live conversations you can't replace that. 

[00:38:54] Betsy Hamm: Can't replace that.

[00:38:55] Jen Kern: So.

[00:38:56] Betsy Hamm: I think that's so that's so important. Yeah. And just picking up the phone or the video or whatever I think is so important. And we forget that and I, I even catch myself now that I think I've been more aware of that in a work environment. I've caught myself not like actually picking up the phone and calling my friends sometimes.

[00:39:10] Like, if I know something's going on. We all just so quickly text, you know, it's easier, everyone's busy. And I did that twice recently, I'm like, "Why am I texting about this? I need to pick up the phone and talk to my friend." Like, "She needs support. She needs, you know, she needs to talk to somebody, not just sit here and text."

[00:39:23] So, I have been more like cognizant of that, even in my personal life of picking up the phone and actually calling a friend when you know that they need someone to talk to versus, you know, going back and forth and text. And I do think it means a lot. And I do think it helps people for sure, to talk versus text. 

[00:39:37] Jen Kern: Yeah. And what I'm hearing from you too, is just like a genuine, authentic style of leadership, which obviously, I mean, when hospitality, we're about people. Let's be authentic as leaders, right? Let's use the word empathetic. Let's understand like what's going on in the world today and let's be real about it.

[00:39:54] As much as I made fun of myself, I don't want to put my head in the sand and "I don't hear it." Like, let's be real. Like, I like to be super optimistic and positive too, but it's not always the right time for that. That doesn't mean we need to like drag her head around and be like dismal. But just knowing that, like having that EI that's social intelligence, understanding like where the world is, where people might be, because they have lives too outside of, waiting donuts.

[00:40:20] Yeah. And, and, and showing up authentically in, in those moments, 

[00:40:26] Betsy Hamm: Absolutely so important. 

[00:40:28] Jen Kern: Sounds like you're doing that. 

[00:40:29] Betsy Hamm: I think so. Yeah. 

[00:40:33] Jen Kern: Awesome stuff. Like that is really that's... I can see why they were like, "Do you want to be CEO?"

[00:40:42] Okay. So sounds like massive growth. I didn't know you guys were international, so that's exciting. So tell me, like, if you look out like a year or two or three, and you look at that like we're looking to open 50 locations or 60 locations in the next couple of, you know, year over year. What are some of the things that you think have to happen that aren't there now ?

[00:41:03] Betsy Hamm: Ooh. That's a great question. I think part of it is the team, right? So what positions do we need that we don't have. And it kind of goes back to that basic of making sure you have all the right people on the bus in the right seats. And so obviously as we've grow, we just continue to get more sophisticated and we'll need to continue to bring in talent, I think, to help us get there.

[00:41:21] And then I think it's just the general approach, you know, looking at things of, you know, how do we increase frequency and how do we increase what will pick us to customers, but how do we increase frequency and how do we get people having Duck Donuts top of mind, or like the two big things that are really going to help us grow?

[00:41:36] And I don't think we have them figured out completely yet. So, you know, we introduced a loyalty program. We introduced milkshakes for new products. So we have these things that were sort of, you know, spinning on and, and are doing okay. But, you know, we haven't figured out is, is how do we increase frequency to the, to the existing shops. I think will be one of the big things to figure out that will help impact our growth.

[00:41:57] Jen Kern: Okay. Okay. And what role do you see technology playing?

[00:42:00] Betsy Hamm: So I think, you know, I mentioned the app I think that'll play into it. And I think, convenience is a big piece of it. So, and how that works for us, I think we'll figure out. We're testing kiosks in some locations that you can go in and in order, you know, on a kiosk versus having to talk to an employee and also by the way of staffing is tough. It might be great to have kiosks in the future.

[00:42:20] So from a kiosk standpoint just ease of ordering, you know, doing made to order donuts isn't like a super quick orders, if you're building your own donuts. So how do we make that experience, the whole user experience that are more convenient and get people their donuts faster. So, that technology piece will certainly play into it.

[00:42:36] And I think it'll be interesting too, is as we continue to see labor challenges, like how does, how does it play into like helping the staffing too. So even from a robotic standpoint, is there anything that we can use some form of technology on to help reduce the number of people we need to work in a store.

[00:42:52] So I think those things will be really important and technology from our online ordering, third party delivery, the app, collecting customer data, understanding who our customers are more and better. We'll all certainly be key to our growth from a technology standpoint. 

[00:43:07] Jen Kern: Yeah, I was going to ask you next about the data. Like how important is that for you to have like, is personalization like personalized outreach, is that a thing for you guys? Or do you not think that'll really move the needle?

[00:43:19] Betsy Hamm: I don't know if we have that figured out yet. That's a great question. I mean, right, now, like, especially with the loyalty program, like eventually obviously we'll have the best data on like our local team members will be able to know what they bought when they bought, how many times they went in month, that kind of things.

[00:43:30] So I think in the future, it would be great to know that, you know, if this is your favorite donut or if this is your favorite espresso drink, if we can give you an offer specific to you, I think that would be awesome, especially because our whole business is about personalization. So when you come in, you get to choose or design your donut exactly how you want it.

[00:43:46] So, we know the value of personalization, so I think it will be interesting to see how to utilize that from, from a marketing standpoint as well in the future. 

[00:43:55] Jen Kern: Right. Gosh, I've almost lost track of time here. I see we we're going to have to start wrapping up, unfortunately, because clearly we could talk for much longer. But I do want to, you know, for the benefit of our listeners and, you know, talking about like female leaders, female CEOs which obviously you are, a couple of questions there around like, you know, the importance of like, first of all, you know, we talked about balance

[00:44:17] I saw your background story that you had,... Do you have an MBA or you? 

[00:44:21] Betsy Hamm: I do. Yeah, I have an MBA. 

[00:44:23] Jen Kern: Okay. How much do you think having the MBA is helping you today with, with being a CEO? Because there's two schools of thought, like 'you need it, you don't need it.'

[00:44:32] Betsy Hamm: Yeah.

[00:44:32] So I think the reason I got maybe a couple of years after I was working, which I think is important to have some real business experience before you go to get a masters in business. I think I did it to build my credibility at the time. You know, again, thinking about marketing roles, you know, what was that,

[00:44:50] 13, 14 now it's like 15 years ago probably. You know, more than that, but you know, building credibility as a marketing person, I did it to be like, "Well, yeah, I understand business. I understand accounting and finance. Like I got my MBA." You know, it was sort of like this credibility thing. I think that's what drove me to, to do it.

[00:45:08] So, I mean, it was great and I love learning. So I think from that standpoint, I think it's so important to learn and, and that means something different to everyone. And even now, like, you know, I read all the, all the articles that come out from like all the trade publications and always talking to other franchise or so I just, I love learning.

[00:45:23] So I think that's just part of my DNA and that just helped me to grow. Do I think the actual learnings impact my role or did, I don't think so. I mean, I think it's just the whole fact of like understanding and getting you to think about things that maybe you didn't have experience or know about or that you avoided as an undergrad. You know, but, I think, I think just the way you think and the concept of it's certainly helps influence your career for sure, but I don't think the actual classes probably play into your, your knowledge as you grow into your various roles.

[00:45:54] Jen Kern: So interesting. I love how you said it. Like, so you did it mostly to prove... 

[00:45:58] Betsy Hamm: Yes. Yeah. 

[00:46:00] Jen Kern: I get business. Okay. So leave me alone. Because it's huge street cred when you can say you have an MBA, particularly from Kellogg, I mean, that's a very well-known school. So. 

[00:46:10] Betsy Hamm: That's important. 

[00:46:11] Jen Kern: Yeah, that's so cool. Awesome. You're a mom. 

[00:46:14] Betsy Hamm: Yes. I have a... What's that? Two girls.

[00:46:18] Yes, a teenager and a 10 year old. I have a 13 and 10-year-old girls. 

[00:46:21] Cool. 

[00:46:22] Jen Kern: Okay. Let's talk about lifestyle balance. How do you, how do you do it all? 

[00:46:26] Betsy Hamm: So I definitely think balance is a terrible word that we should not even pretend to use. 

[00:46:31] Jen Kern: Strike it.

[00:46:33] Betsy Hamm: I call it juggling, because it really is juggling. You know, I think sometimes I'm a great mom and sometimes I drop the ball on things that I was supposed to do or snacks I was supposed to buy or, you know, whatever it is.

[00:46:43] But yeah, it, it definitely can be overwhelming. And I, I think we all women have this expectation that we have to do everything perfectly and we have to do it by ourselves and that's totally not the case. And it's totally not how I try to even pretend to survive. It is, it is juggling and some days you're going to be great at work and some days you're going to have to roll because somebody's sick at home and you have to go handle that.

[00:47:03] So, I think just acknowledging that, that you're to, you're going to suck at one or the other sometimes. And it's okay,

[00:47:10] we're human. But then the other thing is, is having a support system and I realized that's different for everyone. You know, some people maybe have grandparents who were able to help out when their kids are younger or, you know, you have a great daycare or whatever it is, or obviously you need a supportive husband.

[00:47:24] And I realized those things in those situations vary for everyone. It's not being afraid to ask for help, however that plays out. And, and I think maximizing convenience when you can, you know, I think back to like online shopping, like, "I would never have time to go to the grocery store, I order my groceries, and pick them up."

[00:47:39] So, you know, it's just taking those little shortcuts when you can. But, I think it is really important to have a support system and that means something different to everyone, but not being afraid to ask for help and looking for some of those outside resources does make life somewhat easier, but you know, I certainly miss things and sometimes, you know, drop the ball on things.

[00:47:59] And, you know, I've learned to maybe, especially during COVID with working from home, like, "Okay.

[00:48:03] If I'm picking up my daughter from school, I can not be on the phone because then I'm not talking to her." And she said, "All you do is you're on the phone all the time." And you know, so you do have to be aware

[00:48:12] and I think when you are with your kids is to make sure that you're present. I think we can all get very distracted because of technology and being able to work at any time from anywhere. And sometimes we may be over a multitask in that instance. So, just making sure that you do have that ability to sort of separate and, and to be present with your kids so that when, when you're there, you're there and you're focused on them.

[00:48:33] I think that's really important. 

[00:48:35] Jen Kern: Well, that is important. The presence that you're talking about is so important and you know, you say it, "Strike the word balance." And I hate the word multitasking. I think multitasking is a myth. Like,.. 

[00:48:45] Betsy Hamm: That's fair. Yes. 

[00:48:47] Jen Kern: May 'cause I am terrible at it, but I don't really believe I can do two things at or either one halfway.

[00:48:54] Betsy Hamm: Yeah, exactly. 

[00:48:55] Jen Kern: And so like you're saying like your daughter's in the car, try not to be on the phone. 

[00:48:58] Betsy Hamm: Right. 

[00:48:59] Jen Kern: What's it like...'Cause you're not really then being present. 

[00:49:02] 

[00:49:02] But the same thing, like kids or no kids, like whatever you're doing like that, that in the moment, if you're not, if you're trying to do three other things at the exact same time something's going to give.

[00:49:13] Betsy Hamm: Absolutely. I mean, I get busted for coming home from work and maybe still decide to answer an email and my husband's talking to me and then he'll ask like, "So is that cool?" And I'm like, "I have no idea what he just said." You know, he's just like, "Okay,"

[00:49:24] "So I was busted that I was not listening to you. I thought it was until you asked me a question and then I realized, I don't know what you asked me."

[00:49:30] So. 

[00:49:30] Jen Kern: That's sort of why I brought it up, 'cause we're all guilty of that.

[00:49:32] Betsy Hamm: Yes. Yes, 

[00:49:34] Jen Kern: For me, I have to be very intentional and try really hard. 

[00:49:38] Betsy Hamm: Yeah. 

[00:49:38] Jen Kern: And practice.

[00:49:39] Betsy Hamm: I catch myself doing it, especially when we had all these meetings on Teams and Zoom. You know, if you're like half listening to a meeting because it's not completely something you need to listen, then I start checking email or, you know, looking at your phone and I'm like, "Oh my gosh, I'm not even paying attention.

[00:49:51] I would never do that in a conference room. Why am I doing it, you know, on, on Teams?" So it's just really being aware of that, I think is important. 

[00:49:59] Jen Kern: Absolutely. Okay. We have not talked about your delicious donuts. It's summer, that those things are amazing. I hadn't even heard of Duck Donuts until like two or three years ago and as you had started growing. What's coming down the pike in terms of like fun seasonal offers or what do you know what... tell us about like the most

[00:50:21] amazing thing about the food that you can think of. 

[00:50:23] Betsy Hamm: Sure. So, you know, we do always have limited time offers and they, they change up by season. So right now we have a Peach topping, which is amazing. But you know, summer's coming to an end. So, you know, looking towards fall is actually some of my favorite flavors that start here in the fall short shortly

[00:50:38] and that is, we have a Pumpkin Donut and we also have an Apple Pie donut as well as a streusel. So the Apple Pie Donut is probably my favorite. It's literally like apple pie filling that they just sit in the middle of the donut. Can throw some streusel, vanilla, whatever you want on top of it.

[00:50:52] It's amazing. And if you really want it to be amazing, you put it on a Donut Sunday. So we take that and then throw a top of

[00:50:59] vanilla ice cream, let's just say, on top of that. And it's, it's pretty good, that's really good. Yeah. So I'm very excited. I mean, Summer and Peach has been great, but I am excited for the fall flavors because the Apple and the Pumpkin are some of my favorites that come back every year. 

[00:51:15] Jen Kern: What's your number one selling donut? 

[00:51:17] Betsy Hamm: The Maple Bacon Donut. 

[00:51:19] Jen Kern: Oh. 

[00:51:20] Betsy Hamm: Yes. Yeah. So the Maple Icing and then Bacon Crumbles on top is our number one donut. 

[00:51:25] Jen Kern: Number two?

[00:51:25] Betsy Hamm: I think it's chocolate. Just Chocolate Donut, and usually with sprinkles. Oreo, we sell a lot of Oreo as a topping on whether it's chocolate, peanut butter, vanilla. And we have some named donuts. So like the S'mores donut is, is popular.

[00:51:38] And obviously you can imagine what's on that. So some of the donuts with like S'mores or even the Powdered Sugar Donut which is just very classic, you know? Powdered Sugar, Cinnamon Sugar with a vanilla drizzle. You know, some people like the, the simple donuts as well. So they, they all do really well. 

[00:51:55] Jen Kern: Yeah, it's nice that you have that variety. Like if you have people like me that when I eat sugar, I'm going to go all in and put like a lot of stuff on. But then my husband's, like you're saying, like he just likes a Cruller or a Glazed, or, you know, every once in a while just something like simple and,

[00:52:11] and delicious tasting that delicious like donut which at the core of your ingredients. So, well, gosh, Betsy, thank you so much for your time here today. This has just been so fun for me. 

[00:52:21] Betsy Hamm: Oh. Oh, thank you. 

[00:52:22] Jen Kern: Pennsylvania, CEO, you know, former marketer and so you you've got it all going on for sure. Are there any last, like I'd like to give my guests, you know, infomercials at the end or I don't know if there's non-profits you support in the area like any shout-outs you want to get for your brand.

[00:52:38] Betsy Hamm: Sure. I actually, since you mentioned nonprofits, September is coming up. So we sponsored games, Chemo Duck which is a nonprofit organization that provides huggable hope for kids. So there are stuffed ducks that are used as learning devices for children who are going through chemotherapy. And during the month of September, we raise funds at our locations.

[00:52:56] And what's really awesome is, all the funds that are raised at a specific location go to support their local children's pediatric oncology hospital. So it's awesome that that those moneys can stay local and we're able to provide children with this resource, to help them during a really terrible time,

[00:53:11] of course, in their life. So, definitely check out Duck Donuts, especially during the month of September and, and donate to the games Chemo Duck program. 

[00:53:18] Jen Kern: Games Chemo Duck. I love it. That's so great. Okay. Well, thank you so much for coming on Restaurants Reinvented. You are definitely doing amazing re-invention there at Duck Donuts. I can see it. 

[00:53:31] Betsy Hamm: Thank you so much. 

[00:53:33] Jen Kern: And I really appreciate you sharing with us. So have a great day and... 

[00:53:37] Betsy Hamm: Thank you.