Are you ready to master the art of selling commercial lines insurance? Join us as we dive into this complex sphere with guest, Jerry Thacker, Agency Growth Coach at AHA Insurance Network. In this episode, you will learn how agents can cater to the diverse needs of businesses, explore the profound differences between personal and commercial lines, and delve into the four types of liability exposure that underwriters consider when assessing risks. And that's just the beginning!
This episode also touches on the significance of niche markets, the essential role carrier partners play, and the power of networking and discuss the benefits of getting involved with professional associations. And, we unveil how to leverage insure tech and digital platforms to streamline the commercial lines selling process. So, tune in and get ready to elevate your commercial lines strategy!
Are you ready to master the art of selling commercial lines insurance? Join us as we dive into this complex sphere with guest, Jerry Thacker, Agency Growth Coach at AHA Insurance Network. In this episode, you will learn how agents can cater to the diverse needs of businesses, explore the profound differences between personal and commercial lines, and delve into the four types of liability exposure that underwriters consider when assessing risks. And that's just the beginning!
This episode also touches on the significance of niche markets, the essential role carrier partners play, and the power of networking and discuss the benefits of getting involved with professional associations. And, we unveil how to leverage insure tech and digital platforms to streamline the commercial lines selling process. So, tune in and get ready to elevate your commercial lines strategy!
Hello and welcome to Insurance Agents Talk Shop. I'm your host, Doug Coombs, Chief Marketing Officer at SIAA. Today's episode is Preparing to Sell Commercial Lines. I'd like to introduce my guest, Jerry Thacker, Agency Growth Coach at AHA Insurance Network in Louisville, Kentucky.
Speaker 2:Hey, thanks for having me. It's been looking forward to it.
Speaker 1:I'm glad to have you here, jerry. I'm looking forward to our discussion, because Commercial Lines is all the talk these days as we go through the incredible market that we're in. So we all know that this can be a complex product insurance itself and the complexity only gets more so when working in Commercial Lines and beyond just policy. Selling Commercial Lines means diving deep into business operations and pinpointing specific risks. Every business brings its own set of challenges and agents must be adept at navigating these to provide the best coverage. On today's episode of Insurance Agents Talk Shop, we dive into Commercial Lines and discuss strategies that can help agents effectively meet the distinct needs of businesses. Join us as we shed light on industry best practices, emerging trends and tools for success. So, jerry, let's talk a little bit about the fundamental differences between personal and commercial lines and why it's important for agents to understand the differences between the two in terms of their approach.
Speaker 2:Sure, you know. I mean obviously just the name itself, right? Personal, commercial. We're talking about home and auto versus business entities. So you know underwriters in Commercial Lines. They're looking for four types of liability exposure. You know premises, what's going on in operations, what type of products are they making and when they make those products, what are our liabilities on, possibly the completed operations? Well, you got personal lines and it's pretty much looking for what the premises exposure is, there at home, or obviously the driver and their auto. So much more complex on the commercial side, obviously, than the personal.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think that that historically I should say traditionally has been something that may have caused a number of agents to back away from entering in the commercial line space in terms of their sales. Sure, sure, have you found the same, or do you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, the one thing you know throughout Kelly Harris, the other agency growth coach there at AHA, and myself. Over the past six years she and I have developed a bootcamping and I know I'm we'll probably talk about that a little bit later but one thing that we have found out through talking with hundreds of agents over six years is commercial lines puts a fear in people right, puts a fear in these agents and they're paralyzed by it. They're paralyzed by the not knowing what to ask, having to go back a couple of times because they get used to personal lines, where you're when you need. You've got a home exposure. You've got to ask certain questions, the drivers, they know what to ask, they feel comfortable in that space.
Speaker 2:So getting them outside of that comfort zone, so to speak, and learning the same things just in a little different way, paralyzes them at times. So we really encourage them to. Best way to learn is to do get out and do it. Use us as mentors. Use insurance underwriter, your carrier underwriters, as mentors. Ask the questions. That's what we're here for. So we really try to tell them don't be paralyzed by fear, let's just get out there and do it that sounds like sound advice.
Speaker 1:I would ask you, then how can an agent effectively assess and understand the unique needs and risk associated with different businesses?
Speaker 2:In other words, as you look at the commercial lines, Sure, you know, and again we talk about do your homework, do your pre-work. We break it up into pre-game, in-game and post-game. And the reason we do that is, you know, I'm a coach, I've been a basketball coach for a long time and that's the way I see things. Right, I was an athlete throughout college and that's just the way I see things is in game mode. So the pre-game, you know, go to their Facebook, google, talk to your underwriter, that your carrier that wants that type of risk.
Speaker 2:Talk to me, talk to Kelly, other resources we have at AHA. Talk to us about. This is what I have. What questions do I ask? What market do I go to? What do I look for? That sort of thing. We can also provide them with a DAQ, a diagnostic questionnaire, and it is a very detailed questionnaire about a specific type of exposure. So if you have a plumbing contractor, it's going to give you all the questions asked for plumbing contractor, all the property things to look at. So it makes you look like an expert, to be honest, like you've done it a hundred times. So there are a lot of resources out there within AHA, within SIA, within just the commercial lines, I guess realm that we live in with the carrier. So there's a lot of stuff out there. You just have to do a little work, a little homework, to get to it.
Speaker 1:Well, that's interesting because you're teeing up. Actually, my next question, which, along the lines of commercial lines encompassing a broad range of coverages and obviously different industries, and then of course, considering general liability, commercial auto workers' compensation, are there specific ways means that the agent can keep up with the nuances of these various products and these risk types to ensure, with an E, that they offer the right coverage to their clients?
Speaker 2:Yeah, not to make this a complete infomercial for SIA and AHA, but really from Steve and the whole team at SIA getting information out to our agency partners. The TLC on our website is phenomenal. I think Jeff calls it a college campus and that's exactly what it is Talking with our marketing reps from our carriers or field underwriters. Talking to our underwriters, with the carriers to figure out, you know, hey, what's going on within whatever carrier that you all want to write, what's going on with that, what's the loss ratios? Just knowing what's going on in the industry. Like we're in a hard market right now. We've heard that over and over again. A lot of our agents don't know what that means. What that means to them is a little bit different. We have to do a better job educating our agents on what does this hard market mean? Where can we get the information, that sort of thing? That's what we're really focusing on on a day-to-day basis is getting that information out to our agents and being more proactive as opposed to reactive with it. Got it?
Speaker 1:I just want to clarify for those listeners who are not members of SIA. Steve is Steve Tamborelli, who heads up our business insurance advantage program. The TLC is our training and learning center and Jeff is Jeff Chittester, our director of training and development. All right.
Speaker 1:Thank you very much for that. No worries, I get it. Short hand happens, it's all good. It's interesting because you talk about essentially what I'm hearing is that you utilize all the resources and any and all resources that are available to you in order to keep your knowledge and your skills fine-tuned. Let's take this to a different point here, in terms of the relationships with clients. I'm wondering how does that compare commercial lines versus personal lines when we talk about relationships, because we talk a lot in the sales process about needing to establish that relationship. What works in the commercial lines area that maybe doesn't work or works better than it does in the personal lines area?
Speaker 2:Okay, the way I've always managed these relationships throughout my career is with the service schedule. I'm really big on that being very proactive in our service schedule with our commercial clients, whether they're a top 20% customer, bottom 80%, they really sort of stay on the same type of schedule. However, I personally I'm out in front of my top 20% of clients more than I am obviously the bottom 80%. My service schedule goes like this Month one policy delivery, make sure we've got everything right. I do that every quarter.
Speaker 2:Month one, four, seven, 10, I'm out in front of them. I'm going over, making sure payrolls are correct, I'm making sure revenues are correct so we don't get hit with some big audit. Then the rest of the months I'm touching them by an email, by a mailer, whatever that may be. Every month they're hearing from me, not just when they have an issue. I think being proactive on the commercial side really keeps the competition away. There's no other, there's no reason to let somebody else in. It's very important on the commercial side specifically to stay extremely proactive with your communication and networking with your client.
Speaker 1:That does make a lot of sense. I would suggest that, or I guess, maybe wonder if the same rule doesn't apply meaning of your personal lines clients that you would want the top 20% of those clients to get a more frequent touch from the agency as well.
Speaker 2:Oh, absolutely. My wife and I own a business as well. Obviously we have home and auto insurance. I like to hear from my agent, I like to hear what's going on with their carrier and know what to expect. You can't network enough, in my opinion. You can't touch your clients enough. That's not just through mass marketing, it's through that personal connection, with even an email. Hey, just thinking about you, everything going okay, that sort of thing, absolutely correct. There are a lot of similarities in the service schedule for commercial and personal Gotcha.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that's logical. I want to shift gears for a minute because you mentioned earlier in our conversation about the fact that you do hold a commercial lines boot camp for member agencies of AHA Insurance Network. By all accounts, it is well received and well attended. I'm wondering if you might bring some of your experiences from that boot camp or boot camps, because it's not just like you've had just one. As you mentioned, there have been hundreds over the last six years. What are one or two areas of selling commercial lines that your attendees seem to focus on as particular challenges?
Speaker 2:I go back to the knowledge base and, being paralyzed by fear they really have a hard time with that that they feel like they need to know everything. Between Kelly Harris, like I said, and myself we've got over 60 years experience in the commercial lines field we don't know everything. As you said earlier market trends, emerging type products, everything it's continually changing.
Speaker 1:So that leads to the fear, because there is so much change in that area.
Speaker 2:Well, not just that specifically, but also just the fear of not knowing. You know maybe. Hey, what am I supposed to ask for on workers' compensation insurance? What if they ask me about a claim scenario? I don't know, it's always something as I tell them you're not going to know everything the answer to the client with, or the prospect with the. You know, I'm not sure exactly 100% about that, but let me check in that and get back to you. That's important, but the more important part of that is actually following through with that right, actually finding out and getting back to that prospect.
Speaker 1:That's actually you know. You make a really good point here. Follow-through is so important for both prospective and existing clients that I would agree that you know. If you don't have the answer, that's okay. If you get the answer and provide it, that's even better Right?
Speaker 2:Yes, absolutely. And you know the second thing that we go over, that I see a lot of times in our boot camps with people just don't know what type of business to go after, because for the most part, I deal with generalists and I would say most people listening to this and their agents and within their agencies are generalists, meaning they're just going to write whatever they can write, as opposed to the specialist, the niche marketing, which is a key term you hear in the industry of these, are the five types of businesses I work on with these carriers. I know what to ask and I go, so just the scope it's it overwhelms them with how much business is out there. Who do I even go after? What do I go after? And then when I, if they do, let me take a look at it now what? And that's a lot of what we go over in boot camp. So we try to use those concerns for them over the two days.
Speaker 1:So am I hearing you say that if you can get into niche markets that's a good move?
Speaker 2:I think for exponential growth within an agency and within your personal book of business, that the only way for the exponential growth is within that niche marketing concept, meaning you know, work with your carriers to find out what they want to write. I could go say I went out and I found a dynamite manufacturer paid $2 million of insurance a year. They wanted to do business with me. Everything's perfect. However, I don't have a carrier partner that will partner with me on that. Well, I can do one of two things. I can move on to the next one or I can create my own insurance company, which is highly unlikely and sure myself.
Speaker 2:So you know, my thing is yes, niche marketing. A big part of that is getting to know, having a great relationship with your carrier partners, finding out what type of business they want and moving on from there, Got it.
Speaker 1:So okay, so I'm just I want to dig into this niche market a little bit, if we could. And I understand that and agree with the idea that, as you identify niche market, a critical component to that is to make sure you have carrier partners who want to write the business. What other considerations might an agent give to establishing a niche? You know a line of business, a niche line of business that they want to do business with?
Speaker 2:Sure, one of the things I always ask is we take about five minutes because I don't want it to be long, I want it to be top of your head. Get it on paper. This is what we're doing is, if money were no object, what four or five classes of business would you work on? And I ask that question, meaning you enjoy what they do, you can speak their language, you have a background in it. Maybe you grew up with it within your family or you had family members that worked in that type of industry. That's one of the things we talk about.
Speaker 2:Also, geography. Right, if you wrote I know how many agents are going to say I love golf, I want to work on golf courses, that's great. I want to work on golf courses in Jefferson County, which, louisville, kentucky, is a top 20 population city in the country. You write every golf course in Jefferson County. Now what? Now? What do you do? You've written them all and you're like well, I need to make more money because it's not nearly as much as I thought. So you need to make sure there is an adequate number of those types of businesses within your geographic area, whether that be 10 miles, 50 miles, 100 miles, 500 miles, whatever that be. For you. That's really important. Knowing those products that they need are available with a carrier that you have for that specific area is just major keys to again knowing what type of business to write and going after those specific types of business that you can make a career with you can maybe have a special program with in the future.
Speaker 1:I think that makes sense. You play to your likes to the extent that you can, because typically you have more knowledge in those areas.
Speaker 2:Right, you speak their language. You don't want to be a fake. You don't want to be the guy that is guy or gal that sells something, and every time somebody sees you in town they just turn around because you're going to push sales down their throat. That's not what we want to do.
Speaker 1:It's interesting. As I think about it, I guess I just want to acknowledge the risks associated with becoming too niche in your approach. By then. I mean, if all I'm writing is a particular line of business relative to commercial insurance, then what I guess I would want to be aware of if there are some dangers for that particular industry, if you will. I'm thinking of, for example, if I'm an insurance agent and I specialize in my niche, is restaurants. Something happens like COVID or something along those lines, or not quite along those lines, but still that all of a sudden business tanks for that particular industry, that I do have business with other lines of industry to carry me through that period.
Speaker 2:Sure, that's one of the reasons we go, you know, five deep If you get your five niches, and hopefully we never have to go through another worldwide pandemic where we're closing down businesses all over the country. Where you have restaurants, contractors are always big right. When we talk to our agents, we talk specifically about small commercial lines. Small commercial lines, though, is 50,000 and under, so we're plumbing contractors, any type of contractor, because there's always going to be construction in pretty much every town in the country, so construction is always good Again, that's why you go back to five lines of business, Five classes of business, rather so you're looking at restaurants, plumbing contractors, maybe HVAC, maybe golf courses, maybe something like that. Auto parts stores that's one I niched in for a while. Private colleges that was another one of my niches Things like that where it's a good spread of classes of business. That hopefully, would not be an issue upon some type of pandemic, or really strong loss ratios within a certain area where carriers want to pull out.
Speaker 1:Gotcha. That makes sense, right. So to give the consideration to that, okay. So let me switch gears just a little bit, if I may. As we think about selling policies, I'm wondering are there other ways in this place to the relationship component, I believe? Are there other ways that agents can provide value in terms of advising businesses on risk management strategies and loss control measures, that sort of thing?
Speaker 2:Sure, you know I'm a little bit unique that I'm a self-proclaimed insurance dork. I've got a degree in insurance and risk management from Eastern Kentucky University, go Kernels. But you know, with the loss control and risk management it's really utilizing our carrier partners. We can find some things in NRDAQ. It tells you what to look for right when it gives you an explanation of the account, what we're looking for in the property, and we can go in there and look around and make some of those proactive recommendations to the prospect. But it's really about partnering up with your carriers and their loss control team and all the online loss control mechanisms they already have in place. Our carriers that we work with at AHA are the best in the country. They're fantastic as far as loss control, risk management. The people they have on their team, the technology they have in place, the information they have easily accessible to us and to our agency partners is something that our agents we really push them to get very familiar with and utilize those resources that are there Very good.
Speaker 1:Okay, so our next question and actually that I had down here, I think we've pretty much addressed in terms of staying on top of changes and regulations and market trends, and you've talked about the resources that people or agents should avail themselves of. So my next question, then, would be with the rise of insuritack in digital platforms, how is the process of selling commercial lines changed with all this Meaning? What tools or technologies might you recommend for agents who are seeking to modernize their approach?
Speaker 2:Sure, and I go back to me being in this 25 years, so I'm kind of an old school insurance sales guy. I have been working towards that killing. I've been studying that and working on the technology piece so we can learn and send that information on to our insurers. I just want to earn to our agents, rather, I just want to back up one second.
Speaker 2:We talked about networking and keeping up with trends and laws and things like that emerging. I highly suggest people or highly recommend, rather, that people become involved with a professional association within their state city, whatever that may be. I was a member of the independent insurance agents of Kentucky and really the people there and the networking I had and the people I met, from carriers to other agents, changed my career and it changed my outlook on the insurance industry and made me realize how great of an industry it is and how professional we are. We're not just agents, we want to become advisors, right, and I highly suggest and highly recommend that people reach out to PIA, reach out to the big I within your state, whoever that may be, and become involved.
Speaker 1:So that actually. So that's a valid point and I guess I just want to clarify that you're indicating or you're suggesting that that kind of networking, that kind of contact with others within the industry, that alone will help you stay abreast of those changes to regulations and markets and that sort of thing.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. It's been, like I said, a game changer for me in my career and I couldn't be any more thankful to the people at IAK that were always there for me as mentors. Gotcha.
Speaker 1:That is one thing, and I guess this is completely off the scope of our questions, but that is one thing I've experienced in the insurance industry myself, and not being an insurance guy per se but that it's a friendly group, a group that's willing to share, a group that's willing to learn from each other. It's just, it's a pretty unique community, if you will.
Speaker 2:Yes, it is, and it goes back, in my opinion, to servant leadership. I have one particular agent that I work with at this time. That is in a networking group, right, and he does. That's the only place he gets leads and he's that's where he gets his commercialized business and he's doing an amazing job, growing at an extremely fast pace. I ask him because I've seen others not work. It didn't work for me. The networking groups just didn't work for me. I didn't do it properly. He's doing it right.
Speaker 2:And I asked him what that looked like and he said it was servant leadership. He goes in, he gives the referrals, not expecting anything back, and he does that out of genuine concern for the people. He is referring to these, whatever the need may be, to a roofer or whatever, and that comes back to him and it all boils down to wanting to help people and good things happen to you. So when you do good, good comes back to you and I think that's definitely within the insurance industry. There's enough for all of us, right? We don't have to fight for every account. Everybody can eat, and that's a big one of the reasons the insurance industry is such a phenomenal industry to be a part of.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's pretty unique and it makes it. It makes the whole profession, I guess, better just from that perspective. So let's go back, then, to the idea of insure tech and digital platforms and organizing one's approach to selling commercial lines. What do you have to say on that front?
Speaker 2:Sure, you know we highly encourage people to and I know this might not be as techy as everybody else but use Google Earth, right, use the internet to find out as much as you can about the company you're going to go see. Talk with your, your underwriters again. See what they have as far as maybe some material you can get to them. Also, the online rating systems with our carriers have been phenomenal. Reaching out part of our boot camp again is we have Hannah Davis from our, from our office that comes in and talks about multimedia. You know your website and your social media and how that interacts with each other. I think you had a guest on that said um, your website is who you see when you come in the store, right, and your social media is what it's, what, what they say when that you get in there. Yes, so it kind of tells who you are. Yep, um, and she's. She was from Kingsport, by the way, so we have a kinship.
Speaker 2:I'm from East Kentucky, she's from Eastern Tennessee, so I enjoyed that that episode, but that is has become critically important and I think, uh, as you mentioned COVID before, that did a lot to expedite that within the insurance industry and, um, utilizing those um type of technology has been um more important now than ever and I would imagine it gets just more as more as much important going forward as it has been, if not more. But I will say, uh, I come back to this Again, I'm old school in this way to me, from top to bottom, from carrier to client, it's a relationship business, and what can we do, from whether that's technology, whether that's just old school, hand to hand, you know, pressing palms, what's that? How can we further our relationship with our clients? And there's many different ways to do that and I technology, obviously, is one of those ways and, again, not an infomercial, but we do a great job helping you and putting you in places with other vendors that can help you, uh, with your online presence. Gotcha.
Speaker 1:It's good, it's good stuff, okay, um, so I'm I'm just got an eye to the time here and I'm wondering if we might spend a moment talking about, um, the fact that you know, commercial insurance insurance, excuse me can be a significant investment for businesses, right, that's a typically that premiums a little more hefty, let's say, than it is in a personal line. So what are some of the common objections encountered from business owners, and then how does one address them?
Speaker 2:You know, price is always going to be important, Right? Um, one of the things I've always done and I share with my uh agents that I work with is we asked what's important to you and your insurance program? Cause we need to know. We could word vomit all over you and tell you all these great things and just show you how much we know about insurance, but if it's not important to the client or the prospect, what does it matter? So price is always going to be a key uh component. But what we do is we take that and we're like other than price. We know price has to be competitive. What's that look like?
Speaker 2:So the objection is always going to, you know, is always going to be priced. A lot of times, especially in this market where we're seeing renewals of 20, 30, 40%. Um, but I ask, I've always asked hey, did you buy the cheapest car you can find? Do you live in the cheapest house you can find? Do you wear just? Do you go I don't know to the dollar store and buy T-shirts? Probably not, because you're buying things that you find worth in.
Speaker 2:And when it comes to commercialized insurance and your business and again, small business is what we focus on, so it's a family. Typically it's a family business. Um, if something happens and you get the cheapest price but you don't know what's in the policy and something happens and time of claim, it could ruin your, your business, maybe change your family tree forever. So that's one objection that we hear a lot as price and we we just reverse that right, put it right back to them. Very good, are you the cheapest? Always no, they're not. So why do people do business with you?
Speaker 2:And also, you know everybody's going to say, doug, service, our service is great. Okay, that's, that's fantastic. That's what everybody says. It can be great, but if it's not unique, if it's not something a little bit different, something unique about your service, then it's just the same as everybody else. And our service schedule and and having things like that to show when we get those objections uh, whether that be certificate management, auto ID cards, if it's in before three, we get it out same day and after three we get it to you about 10 o'clock the next morning. Whatever that is, we have an answer to those objections about my service. My service is stunk. Are you going to answer the phone? Yada, yada.
Speaker 1:Good, good insights, and I like the idea of always flipping things around to to let the other address the same issue that they're actually bringing up, right, yes, so, um, oh, before I move on, I just want to, uh, make sure I'll let you know that I'll tell Kara Shaw to spam code and color that you gave her a shout out.
Speaker 2:I appreciate that, please do.
Speaker 1:Um, so, as our final question today cause, we are running out of time. What, what resources or methods would you recommend for agents who are looking to deepen their expertise in commercial lines? I mean, other than some of the things we've talked about already, are there additional ways for an agent to deepen their expertise in commercial lines?
Speaker 2:Sure, commit yourself to education, be a life learner. This industry and everything we do is changing and it will be forever changing. And you can do what? One of two things when something change, you can either resist it and it runs over you, or you can accept it and move forward with it.
Speaker 2:Um, bury yourself? Uh, I wouldn't say bury, but give yourself certain times in your calendar a day to learn. Right, whether that's uh about people, about insurance products, about a specific carrier, about a certain business you're going to call on whatever that is. Put time in your calendar to learn. Be that life learner. That's a great thing about commercial insurance You're going to get so many different types of business that every day is going to be different. So controlling your calendar as far as putting some time in to learn every day is super important. Your carriers have great resources, great um CE courses, just knowledge based courses, small commercial lines. I actually set an agent up yesterday in a Hartford class and then another one today in a Liberty class. So take advantage of those opportunities to learn um and partner up with us, with your carrier, whoever that may be uh to learn every day, very good.
Speaker 1:That's good, solid, uh, salt of the earth, I think, kind of advice, um, and I appreciate that. Jerry, thanks for joining me today and I appreciate your time.
Speaker 1:Uh, thank you for having me, and uh, anybody uh want to learn, just reach out and let us know oh, excellent, Very good, so to let everybody, or remind everybody that our guest today has been Jerry Thacker of AHA Insurance Network, and to our listeners, I want to thank you for tuning in to our next episode of the Turning Into Insurance Agents Talk Shop. I'm Doug Coombs, chief Marketing Officer at SIAA. To learn more about SIAA, the agent alliance, the largest alliance of independent insurance agencies in the U S, please visit siaacom. Jerry. Thanks again, and you take care. Thanks, doug.