3 Conversations on Money that Empty Nesters Should Have, with Tricia Daniel, EP42

When you're in the second half of life -- which you definitely are as an empty nester -- it's time to have some important financial conversations.

In this episode, I talk about the 3 Money Conversations that empty nesters should have.

My guest is Tricia Daniel. Tricia has an MBA, 23 years experience in public accounting and as a corporate Financial Controller. She has a  passion for using her experience to help corporate executives and sole proprietors calm their overwhelm around money.

​As a single mom who has started over twice, Tricia has also learned how to use her professional financial experience to calm money overwhelm for herself and other single parents through implementing budgeting and forecasting cash methods.   

So what are the three money conversations that empty nesters should have?

The first is with your spouse. If it’s been a while since you’ve had a financial conversation, Tricia shares a great way to begin that conversation.

The second conversation to have is with your adult child. Tricia shares the importance of talking about budgeting with your kids, and how to get them excited about the potential of investing.

And the third conversation to have, is with yourself. We talk about how a simple weekly process can keep you accountable, and reduce the feeling of anxiety around finances.

Thanks for listening!

Free Discovery Call: discover.yourturntofly.com

More on Tricia Daniel
Website: TriciaDaniel.com
IG: @triciadanielmba

More on Thor
Twitter: @thorchallgren
IG: @thorchallgren
Website: www.yourturntofly.com

Transcript

Thor Challgren  
Thank you so much for listening. I'm excited for you to hear today's interview, the three conversations you should have around money. 

Thor Challgren  
My guest is Tricia Daniel. Tricia has an MBA 23 years experience in public accounting and work as a corporate financial controller. She has a passion for using her experience to help corporate executives and sole proprietors calm their overwhelm around money. As a single mom who started over twice, Tricia has also learned how to use her professional financial experience to come money overwhelmed for herself and other single parents through implementing budgeting and forecasting cash methods. 

Thor Challgren  
So what are the three conversations about money that empty nesters should have? The first is with your spouse. It's been a while since you've had a financial conversation, Tricia shares a great way to begin that talk. The second conversation to have is with your adult child, Tricia shares the importance of talking about budgeting with your kids and how to get them excited about the potential of investing. And the third conversation to have is with yourself. We talked about how a simple weekly process can keep you accountable and reduce the feeling of anxiety around finances. It's the beginning of a new year and I have a question for you. 

Thor Challgren  
Carl Jung said there is no burden greater for a child than the unlived life of the parent. Here's my question. Are you living your life? Do you have a purpose that excites you? What's the biggest thing you can imagine for yourself in 2022, I work with empty nester parents helping them to discover a new, greater purpose. If you're in that season of life. I'd love to talk with you about what's next for you in 2022. I reserve a few sessions each week for free discovery calls where we talk about you and get clear on your dream. And what's maybe stopping you from realizing it. Just go to discover.yourturntofly.com and schedule your free call. That's discover.yourturntofly.com. 

Thor Challgren  
Okay, here now is my interview with Tricia Daniel. 

Thor Challgren  
Tricia, welcome to the show. How are you today?

Tricia Daniel  
I'm doing well. How are you?

Thor Challgren  
I'm good. Hey, I am super excited to talk with you today. Because when parents send their kids off into the world, those parents are in essence starting over, they may be motivated to launch a new career, maybe reenter the job world. And their relationships may be changing to the relationship with their spouse with their kids. One of the threads that runs through these areas is a topic you are very familiar with. And that is money.

Tricia Daniel  
Yes. Love that topic. 

Thor Challgren  
Yes, if you're starting a business, money's important. And in your relationships, the money conversations, they're important, they're going to be new and different at this stage in life. So I thought we could talk today about three money conversations that we need to have one with our spouse or partner or family, one with your kids who are now adults. And then maybe most important, the conversation that you have with yourself around money. Does that sound good?

Tricia Daniel  
That sounds amazing. It's a very important conversation that so many of us need to have.

Thor Challgren  
Alright, well, we're going to have it today. Or at least a version of it. So I'm curious, you have an MBA, so you have a lot of educational experience, and you've got over 20 years working in the business world. But I understand that you also learned about money and business from a very personal source, which is your father. Tell. Tell me about that.

Tricia Daniel  
Yes, my father is a financial planner. So growing up, I thought everyone had conversations about money, like everyone should be talking about money at breakfast, talking about money at the dinner table. I didn't understand that. It was a very rare thing. When you grew up with a financial planner, father, and all the knowledge that I gained growing up, I did not realize how important it was. And so later on in life,

Thor Challgren  
it's interesting, because I think as you say, a lot of people that's not their experience. A lot of people probably have very negative associations with their family and their upbringing, but it sounds Like not only the knowledge you got, but the mindset that you got from your dad that was so foundational for you, huh?

Tricia Daniel  
Yes, absolutely. My parents divorced when I was three. And so as a young kid, I had a checking account that my father put money in, instead of child support. So I thought it was normal that every child should have a checking account, I thought it was normal, that when a parent taught a child about how to budget for activities for when he turned 16, for gasoline for insurance, I thought these conversations were very, very normal. And even to this day, I still have breakfast. My father, every single Saturday, well, we have business on a napkin where he teaches me some type of business topic that we go over. So it's been in my blood growing up just learning about money. And those conversations that we should be having generationally with not only ourselves, but with our kids, with our parents, because now I can talk and relate back to him after being in the business for 20 years. It's just such a neat conversation, but it's brings about the importance of communicating about money.

Thor Challgren  
Right? In those napkins. I'm curious, do you still have any of those that

Tricia Daniel  
I wish? I wish I did, because they're so invaluable? Now actually, I take pictures of them, you know, back in the old days when we did not have cell phones, but I wish I could have because I learned so much from him just pulling out a napkin real quick and just start to draw. But again, I thought everyone had these conversations with their parents at the dinner table, like, doesn't everyone talk about money. And so it has become very important topic and passion of mine, to be able to help other people start these money conversations with their children, with their spouse, with maybe their parents or grandparents because these open communications, these having these business topics on a napkin, or personal topics on napkin is just, it's such an invaluable thing to have.

Thor Challgren  
Yeah, in your work, you talk a lot about mindset, which is, you know, there's all the tactical things you need to know about money, the strategies, but the mindset is, where it starts, and how important that is, when it comes to money and finance. you in your work, use the term cash confidence. What are some of the common challenges you see in the people you're working with, when it comes to that mindset issue when dealing with money.

Tricia Daniel  
It's amazing to me that all of us, we want that money, like we want the money in our bank account. But when it comes to money in our bank account, we're free to look at it. We're afraid to open up our phones, we're afraid to dress it. Just the topic gives everyone anxiety, I guarantee you right now some of your listeners are just like, No, I don't want to open my phone. I don't want to do this, because it just gives us anxiety about managing our money. And I think a lot of it stems back from the fear of not knowing how to properly manage your money, Am I doing it right? The people that fear of am I going to have enough? Or someday Am I gonna run out, all those fears come up. And so being able to have more confidence in your cash is so important. And I always kind of talk about the analogy of when we're kids and we hear some we're in bed, and we hear a noise, like outside of our door, like we're in fear, we feel the boogie monsters gonna come out from underneath our bed. I mean, we just get so scared. But until we said, laying there in fear until we got up and turn on the light to see that it was nothing. We were okay, that call went away. And so I always tell people turn on that light. Once you turn the light around your money, it's not as scary. But everyone just walks around a lot with a lot of fear. We just again, we want it in our wallet. We want that big amount in our bank account. But we're too afraid to even start to learn how to manage it. It's just a scary topic for a lot of people. Yeah,

Thor Challgren  
I wonder if part of that comes from, you know, what you're describing is essentially some form of denial or sticking your head in the sand. Like if I don't look at it, I won't know it's there. You know that that fear of like the boogeyman, and if the lights are off, I won't see it. I wonder if that comes from when we're kids, someone else is managing all that stuff for us. Right? We don't have to think about that. And so we move into adulthood. And if no one ever really told us how to manage it. We're still taking that fear, denial mindset that we had as a kid and we're bringing that into adulthood.

Tricia Daniel  
Oh, absolutely. I mean, just think about when you go to college for any of us, I went to college and came all the credit card applications. You just started getting inundated with credit card applications. And even though I was taught a lot of things growing up, I still Whew, this will be fun. Let's go see how many credit cards I actually can get and what the limits are gonna be, this will be great until the bill started coming in. And I got one of my first life lessons about debt and the repercussions of that. And a lot of times, we don't have those conversations with our kids about, hey, you're going to get these applications for debt, you're going to get this, but hey, let me show you something really quick. Let's put this down on paper and having that conversation with, if you got a credit card for $1,000, and then showing them the interest, then, on another piece of paper go, Well, if you would have waited and bought it with cash, or bought it with money, you had that interest, you could go put an investment account and look what it would have grown to, by the time you got to college versus what you owed and had it paid out. By time you're out of college. And a lot of us, we just don't have those conversations with our kids before they leave. And so all of a sudden you're in adulthood. You've never had a budget, you don't know about debt, and you start out kind of a loss because you've never had conversations about those before.

Thor Challgren  
Yeah, I would you agree that part of that foundationally not only with ourselves, with our spouse with our kids, it's nobody wants to be uncomfortable, right? That we feel we believe that those conversations are going to be uncomfortable, so we just avoid them.

Tricia Daniel  
No, we completely avoid them. Because it's easier. It's so much easier in our world, to ignore things, and to look at our phones and just start scrolling to numb ourselves that it'll be fine. He'll learn about it one day, I learned by the school of hard knocks, they will too, you know, but when you're given the right tools, and you're just like in life, when you're given the right tools to build something, you can build something amazing. If you're having to wing it, which the product that you have turned out, it's like that cake show nailed it. He know where people are having to create these cakes. And they turn out just just horrible, because a lot of them don't have the tools they need to create it in a certain way. And so I feel like in life, a lot of us just don't have those tools. And we walk in with fear. Because we we don't know, until it's too late until we're in debt. Until all of a sudden you're in college and you realize you don't have enough money for food. And you're scrounging up pennies when you are having to borrow to go buy groceries. And so I feel like by having some certain tools in place that you learn, maybe that you teach your kids before they leave to college, you start to hone in and check in on with them while they're in college. And then prepare them for some of the baby like a top five things that you learned when you got out of college and you started your life to help your children start off on the right foot.

Thor Challgren  
Yeah, money can absolutely be an uncomfortable subject to consider when you're starting over because starting over can imply that you're in this very unique territory where you've never been, you know whether you're a single parent or an empty nester, I imagine in that setting it money which is already uncomfortable, it becomes even more uncomfortable because now you have the anxiety of everything associated with starting over is that is that oh, I know absolutely work with people starting over, right?

Tricia Daniel  
Yes, yes, I have not started over once, but twice. But I was very, very blessed with the fact that when I started over, I had the money background to be able to land on my own two feet. But so so many people have that fear when starting over. Because either the other spouse manage the money for them. Or all of a sudden they don't have two incomes coming in. Where do I start to budget? What am I going to pay for? How am I going to manage this while being a single parents fuel costs for running kids back and forth? The splitting of child for insurance and tax returns the dependency there's so many questions. But once you start to lay it out, things are not as fearful when you have a plan in place and being able to be because starting over is a scary time. But it starting somewhere just getting started and laying out okay. Alright, this is on the bills we got to start paying for. These are the girls and just tell you it's step by step and really starting to review your money every week where you feel more comfortable. Because it is a very, very, very uncomfortable time. As again, I've done it twice myself.

Thor Challgren  
Yeah, I so endorsed that idea of as uncomfortable as as it is his start to look at things on paper. I know there was a certain point where I made the decision I was going to every morning in my little planner I was going to open up my bank account app and write down and how much I had in there. And when I started doing that, it just was like, it was such a more calming way to start the day. Because whether the number was bigger than I thought less than I thought, at least I knew what it was, as opposed to going. I'm sure it's probably fine. But what if it's not? Well, it probably is. But what if it's not like, then you get in that loop of like you're describing? Yeah, fear? Oh, yeah.

Tricia Daniel  
I mean, how many times have you or maybe your listeners have lied in bed? Like, oh, my gosh, wait, did that bill go through? Oh, no, and you're afraid to open up your online baking. But yeah, like I tell everybody, just open it up and scroll to the last 60 days, you're gonna see a trend, you're going to see an essay, if you don't have a budget, if you've never had a budget, just start scrolling through your last 60 days. And you can easily start to be able to write down those things that normally come out the timing they come out, that's the easiest way just to start a budget, just a start being able to be familiar. And to stop or slow down that fear that you have around you, man, it's like we're just talking about the more familiar you come up with it. And the habit, I love that you do that, you know, and have a habit of luckier and I always tell people have a board meeting, have a board meeting with yourself every week. That's one of the best things I tell everybody have a board meeting with yourself, if you have a spouse or significant other, include them and have just a 30 minute board meeting where you go, Hey, this is where my money went last month. This is where it's gonna go, you know, this upcoming week, you really just becoming familiar with your money, just 30 minutes. That way, it's not overwhelming. But it starts conversations with your spouse, with your kids. And with yourself. Just by having your own board meeting.

Thor Challgren  
I would imagine one of the things that's important there is being intentional about what you're spending. Because if you don't look at your numbers, on that sort of frequent basis, you can discover all of a sudden, there are things that you're like, you know, three months ago, I signed up for this, and now don't even use it, but I'm still getting charged every month for it. So when you're when you're having that regular review session, those sorts of things are going to come up so that you can be intentional about what you're spending, right?

Tricia Daniel  
Oh, absolutely. It's just that constant reminder. Because yes, if we don't look at things as exactly like the back of our closet, there's clothes in the back or causes we haven't seen in years. But once you add go through it every so often, it's like oh my gosh, I don't need this, you know, you can go sell it, you can make it. But once we get familiar with those little charges, because those charges add up. But when we don't see it, we ignore it, we don't turn the light about it. But yes, just having some kind of weekly review makes you accountable for those things.

Thor Challgren  
I wonder too, if there's a corollary to that, because not only are there the things that we we don't realize we're spending, you know that we're leaking money out that we're not even enjoying. But then what happens is, there are also things that we'd like to spend money on that will actually wouldn't bring us value. But we deny ourselves that because we're like, oh, I can't afford that. So that thing might be like 20 bucks, but there's something else that you're spending 20 bucks on that you don't even use. So if you've got that out, now you could afford the thing that you are denying yourself.

Tricia Daniel  
Yeah, that's why I'm a big fan of zero budgeting, where every dollar you have has a purpose. So when you're going through your budget, being able to allocate every single dollar and given it assignments. It's like a game like you give your kid $20. And the end of the day, you're like, hey, where that $20 Go, you want to know where every dollar of that money went. Otherwise, you went that the change back, right? Same thing with yourself is knowing every dollar because once you give intention to every dollar you have, it creates a greater purpose. So now you can start putting money back for that vacation fun, for that investment home for that second vacation for just an investment portfolio for your retirement, when you really start to be intentional and give everything I purpose. It's amazing to how much more of a calm and less overwhelm you have over your money to so that's another thing I really love and believe in that zero budget.

Thor Challgren  
I love that. Well, let's talk about our three conversations now. And I want to start with talking about couples. And at the end of each one of these I'm going to ask let's we're going to settle on one actionable thing the listener can do today in this area. So starting with couples, you know, if someone's single, this might just be the relationship you have with your parents or your siblings. But let's say our listener has just sent their kids off into the world. What kind of money conversations in general should they be having with their spouse or with their extended family?

Tricia Daniel  
I think it's very, very important to have kind of that Estate planning future conversation because my as my father as a financial planner had many people come into his office 60 7080. And all of a sudden their spouse had suddenly passed away. They they didn't know what to do. Did we have enough money? Did we? Do we have retirement it? Do I have life insurance? Do I have enough money to live on what's gonna happen to the house? All these conversations? They were lost, they didn't know. And so much of that anxiety would have been calmed. If all of a sudden they would have had that conversation together. And no, yes. You know, what, if something happens to me, this is what's there. I had a woman recently, I went to a hotel, and she was waiting tables. And we started having a conversation about starting over. And that's where she talked about that the reason she was there at the hotel waiting tables is that her spouse suddenly passed away. She didn't realize that they were deep, deep, deep in debt, she had no idea and with no life insurance, and as a spouse, you are responsible for the other's debt. So here she was late in life, all of a sudden having to, you know, be able to pay back that debt, just to be able to live on. So I think having those money conversations of what's going on now. And the future, if something happened to either one of us, do, you know, what's the plan? And I just think that's an important conversation. It's a hard conversation. I know, there's a really hard one to come right off the bat with. But it is a very important conversation, just to create that piece and know that you're taking care of each other as you grow older.

Thor Challgren  
Mm hmm. So I'm going to ask you, I'm gonna play devil's advocate, I 100% agree with everything you said. But here's where I imagine some people will hear this. And they'll be like, Yeah, but how do I have that conversation with my spouse? Without it coming off as me judging them? Or being critical? Or, or questioning that? Do you know what I mean? Like, yes, say that spouse has been handling all of that stuff? If I go to them and go, Hey, you know, I'd really like to know what's going on with the money, they might hear it as, like, are you? Are you judging? Yeah, as a provider or questioning my knowledge? So how do you begin that conversation in a way that doesn't lead to world war three?

Tricia Daniel  
That is a good question. I would say, it's one of those where you sit down together, and maybe it's a slow conversation that comes about, like, hey, I'm interested, if something ever happened to you, I want to be able to make sure I can pay the bill. So I'm just kind of interested, so that I can take care of you all of a sudden, if you suddenly got sick, I can make sure that the children I are still saying in the house. Just be like I'm interested in helping. I'm interested in just helping with the finances and being a part in this. We are a partnership, I want to be a partnership with our money, too. How can I help and just start this conversation slowly? Because yeah, Nothing's worse than to convince your spouse and, you know, it's, you automatically get defensive. I mean, I would do so having those slow conversations, just showing that you're interested in knowing and being transparent with with him to like, Hey, I just wanna let you know, I have, you know, this credit card, I'm gonna pay off or, Hey, you know, I spent just having a, Hey, I had a goal of spending $100, the grocery store and went a little bit over just having conversations where you admit your own faults, and your own goals.

Thor Challgren  
I love that. And I think just saying, I'm interested, I'm curious, I want to know more. I want to be a partner in not only our relationship, but in our financial affairs. That's I think that would be so helpful to people as a way to get it started. So as we think about that, one of the other things I think you mentioned it is, this is a new point, if you're an empty nester, this is a kind of a mid point in life, you may be set up a trust a will, this might be a good time to revisit that as well. Right?

Tricia Daniel  
Absolutely. Because probably in your original will, or trust, you had someone a guardian of your children, where money was supposed to go different places to be able to revisit that and know Okay, wait a second. Sometimes who's the executor is going to be that may obviously may have changed, where you're going to have maybe your children be the executor, or grandchildren are now involved in these trust conversations. Because in each stage in life, things they change, and be able to review it and against another way of doing things together is hey, let's go over this together. And what amazing plan can we make for our future for our grandkids or maybe for our retirement like what can we do? It just really starts a conversation of being able to plan but yes, reviewing your will trust anything together to be able to make sure that if something happened tomorrow, that that money goes where it should, over you desire is very, very important because I just went through this where my stepfather and mother passed away suddenly within the same year. And my stepfather refuse to gotta have a will or trust. So then all of a sudden, on his deathbed, he's trying to scramble. And in there was five daughters involved in lots of grandkids. So being able to make sure that all the assets went to where he wanted to, it's really hard when you're, you're on your deathbed. And so being able to have these conversations beforehand is just so important.

Thor Challgren  
I imagine it's also important in that conversation to let those beneficiaries know that like, number one, hey, we have a will and trust, and here's where it is. So if anything ever happened, and you suddenly are on your own, this is where to go find it. So yes, even just identifying the location.

Tricia Daniel  
Yeah, having that safety deposit box, like I don't know of you, but you know, having that safety deposit, like, Hey, listen, I've got to say, deposit this bank, it has the will the trust, any important documents are always there with at least you know, a person you trust as a ability to get in there. So that way they know. So if there was, you know, a fire or tornado or you know, something that happened, they know exactly where to go. Because again, we never know what will happen tomorrow. So yeah.

Thor Challgren  
Finally, I think in relationships, and this goes back to that conversation of like, Hey, I I'm curious, I want to know more. I'm, I'm interested, I imagine to there's every possibility that your spouse may be relieved to hear this, like, what if up to that point, your spouse is like, it's all on me, like, this is all my responsibility to deal with all of these things. If your spouse comes to you and says, Hey, I'd I'd like to take on some of this area, I want to know more to find areas where I can help, you may find that your spouse actually appreciates that.

Tricia Daniel  
Absolutely. I mean, because a lot I think communication as again, as a person who started over twice, communication was something that I learned was a huge factor in both relationships, of being able to share more those, you know, a good in uplifting, and encouraging and constructive conversations about money like oh, hey, that would have been great to know, or you know, what I would love to help with that. I mean, like, I would have been relieved, they would have been relieved. And it would have been something to be more for building a stronger and in time, and it could have helped saved a lot of money, and investing and building and just having those conversations because yes, usually, there's always one spouse that takes the burden of it. And just knowing that, just like when you're washing dishes, no one wants to be the person who always washes the dishes. You know, it's got the same concept. So no one wants to be usually that person always has that burden and that stress, and the other spouse doesn't know. That's why they're so stressed out. That's why they're so quiet. That's why they be they're not happy because they're so worried about paying a bill tomorrow. But being able to have that conversation, it kind of relieves a little bit that burden off them. And it's another thing you get to really connect with and share together. As you know, husband and wife.

Thor Challgren  
Yeah, so you're becoming more of a team.

Tricia Daniel  
Yes. And I think that's so important, especially in a day and age where communication on our phones and YouTube. And here's everything so fast, fast, fast, and being able to sit down and just really connect with each other. On maybe a topic that's uncomfortable for both of you. It's amazing game changer is what I use in my relationship now being able to really have things that used to be so uncomfortable to talk about now is a real connecting points, because it's strengthening both of our being able to have those conversations together.

Thor Challgren  
Yeah. So let's round out this conversation with one actionable thing that someone could do today with their spouse or family regarding money.

Tricia Daniel  
Have that weekly meeting together to really just talk about one thing. Just a weekly just 30 minutes Yeah, just sit there together and schedule that. Yeah, just schedule for 30 minutes to sit down at time works best for you have a cup of coffee in the morning. Whether it's you know, after lunch or before badge, 30 minutes go, hey, you know, this is something I really love our money to go to, hey, this something I spent last week just make it simple. Make it simple, not stressful, and just get started.

Thor Challgren  
I like it. Alright, so now let's move on. On to our kids, whether they went off to college or they're in the working world, they're in their 20s. What sorts of things should we be talking about with them? What conversations around money should we have with our kids

Tricia Daniel  
Really hone in around budgeting being at the once the needs and the impact that they can make today? I mean, can you imagine if we started buying stocks back when we were 20? I mean, we would be multimillionaires now. And so just having those conversations with your kids about what are their wants? What are their needs, and being able to have their own budgets that they review with their own Weekly board meetings each week? And maybe depending on your relationship with your kids? Where once a month? Hey, you guys check in together? And hey, wow, how did it how did your budget go, oh, my gosh, you've got $100, leftover, hey, let's go invest that, let's start your investing account, let's go buy some stock, or some mutual funds, an annuity, some type of investment and they can see their money grow in it's a conversation where you as their parents start to teach them yes, the independence where their money, but then have maybe a monthly just constructive meeting of like, yeah, you know, that's what happens. But hey, let's, let's see what we can do differently. And that way, you can take your lifetime where the knowledge to give it a few tips, but you're also giving them their independence. And that way, too, when they leave out of college, they have got so many tools in their hands that y'all have been working together over those years.

Thor Challgren  
I imagine one of the challenges for them can be is transitioning from a role where they were taken care of by you to to what you just described, which is independence. And that's not an easy thing, because I can say like in my, in my daughter's case. So she's been in college, we're paying for college, she worked, but we pay for that. But she's going to be moving into living on her own, she's going to have a job. So she's going to have to make choices differently than maybe when mom and dad were paying it. So that's also another area, maybe like you said, I love that idea of a monthly meeting, where you check in and part of the conversation is talking about budgeting, talking about money talking about where they are so that they know that, that you're still there. Maybe not supporting them financially, but supporting them emotionally,

Tricia Daniel  
Right, and you're helping them with a good positive conversation. So they have a real positive, they have learned to communicate about money. And the more they communicate about it, the less fear they have around it. And so someday, when they meet a significant other, they feel very confidence and less fear of being able to have those comfortable conversations with somebody else, because they're used to talking about it. They're used to not having a condemning conversation, they're used to having a positive conversation. Right?

Thor Challgren  
Especially because if they, if they did grow up with any sort of lack mindset, you know, like, Oh, we don't have enough for this or that that's gonna be something they're gonna bring into their life, isn't it? It is.

Tricia Daniel  
And I really focus on what I have some conversations, especially with women starting over, is look at yourself as a child, what were the many habits you grew up with? Was it scarcity? Did you pinch pennies? Was it free? Or you just spent whatever, really being able to identify what were those money habits growing up? What were the money habits you have now? And what were the money habits you're going to want in the future. So really being able to be aware of your mindset around your money, it's reason why I talk about it so much. Because sometimes we don't know why we're pinching pennies, or why we are spending so freely and getting into debt, a lot of it has to go back to our childhood. And so having to help your children and to you know, to kind of change the conversation as being able to really talk with your kids. Be like, Hey, you know, this is an idea, guess what, if you have all this invested over here, cuz you've saved it over here, you're going to get out of college debt free, you're gonna get out of college and buy yourself your own house, use those really positive conversations of the things that you wish someone would have had with you, maybe back when you were in college.

Thor Challgren  
Okay, so we all know about the time value of money and compound interest and all of that. How do you for someone who's in their 20s? If I'm talking to my child, how do you convince them the value of maybe forgoing some things now so that they can save that money so that say, by the time they're 35, or 40, they have a lot more financial options than if they hadn't done that. How do you make investing sort of interesting to that?

Tricia Daniel  
And of course, for my father, it was on a napkin, like, Okay, how much do you want? Do you know? Do you want the million dollars? Or do you want the million dollars? I mean, like, it was just having that conversation of wow, look at all the things that you could buy. If you had this, if you hadn't, if you had taken that one $20, or you hadn't buy Starbucks coffee for the week, you took that $20 from not buying Starbucks coffee, you put it into a mutual fund, that average 12% per year earnings, and then show them in 20 years what I would have done, or just five years what it would done, just the basic, just very, very brief, basic conversation that piques your interest that Oh, wow, just by not going to Starbucks for the week, I could have that. Oh, wow, I can own my own home, you know, as a rent, you know, because a lot of those conversations No, they don't care about. But when you start putting it in basic terms, just very brief enough just to kind of plant a seed a little bit, just to Could I get in maybe the comeback. Okay, tell me a little bit more about that. How much could I earn if I had that? How much and just having those little conversations again, that's why I'm starting with my two boys, just having those little conversations of Oh, so now they do whenever their grandpa gives them my Hey, would you take my $20 and go put it my investment account? Like they get really excited, because they know down the road that's gonna buy them something big, of course, they think it's gonna buy them a big Xbox for right now. That's the terms that they live in, you know, but just having those matrices making it fun and exciting. And not too technical. Just getting started is the point.

Thor Challgren  
Yeah, I think to your point of the future value of current money, I remember hearing and I think someone, maybe this is Rory Vaden said this, he was talking about looking at something now, and then the multiple value of it later. So like to your point of like, let's say $10 at Starbucks. If you look at that, and go, What does that $10 If invested, what would that be 20 years from now? And it's some number like this, isn't it? But let's say it's $50. So in 10 or 15 years, that $10 becomes $50. Then he's like, now you look at that and go, is that coffee really worth $50? And most people that way, would be like, No, I'm not gonna No, I'd rather have the $50.15 years from now. Yeah, that's what at least one little tweak you could do to change.

Tricia Daniel  
No, I love I love that just being able to put it into terms that they understand. I think that's great.

Thor Challgren  
Yeah. And I would imagine, too, that a conversation you could have with them is that they can go out and start to invest. Like if they don't have an investment account, let them know, like go to Fidelity or if you know what a financial planner go to them and set something up so that they can have that vehicle to start saving money.

Tricia Daniel  
I think it's so simple to get started. I love to talk to a woman the other day that at five years old, her child took his allowance and bought a piece of stock. Of course, at five years old, he had no idea what he's doing. But now that boys in college, and he has that first piece of like stock certificate framed and on his college wall, enough now that it started conversations with his other guys in his dorm room, of what yeah, you can even start at five years old. Look what you can start, you can do anything. My dad started owning his own businesses when he was eight. You can do anything at any age. Yeah.

Thor Challgren  
Well, let's finally dial in to the person that in theory, we should know best, which is ourselves. I want to frame the question this way, when people are starting over, they may be in some emotional flux, there's a lot of change going on. So money can be something that they use, maybe to try and make them selves feel better, or maybe makes them feel worse. But when it comes to starting over, and certainly being an empty nester starting over how do we need to be talking to ourselves about money.

Tricia Daniel  
The biggest thing is being honest with yourself about your money habits. A lot of us just don't want to address it especially to there's no one around you to keep you accountable. So it's easy to feel like you're getting away with something of Oh, it doesn't matter how many Amazon packages come to the door. No one's gonna say anything. Right. And so a lot of us are just being honest. And that's where again, I go back to that weekly board meeting with yourself of oh, wait, I just spent this much last week and Amazon on stuff I didn't need. This is where I could have spent this money this upcoming week and having those honest conversations where again, you go back to that inner child Work of looking at your money habits as a child money habits during your either relationship or when your children were at home. And now you're starting over journey. What are these money have a snack like? What are you feeling? And where do you really want them to be? later on. So just having those honest conversations and accountability with yourself each week at least, is where I really think is the one of the most important things.

Thor Challgren  
It's interesting. We were talking earlier about, you know, going into your closet and pulling stuff out. One of the things I find fascinating is like, whenever I go through maybe end of the year in January, you're doing like a cleaning, you pull all these things out that you're like, I got this like 10 years ago, and I remember I must have paid like a lot of money for it. And now it's like sitting in my closet, like that's sort of illuminating that how much stuff we buy. Because maybe at some point in our life, we thought it would bring us pleasure or value. And now we're like, I don't even I didn't even know this was here. And I haven't known it was here for five years.

Tricia Daniel  
As fun. Exactly. That's what I was doing yesterday was going through and cleaning it out. Because too, I found in my first started over a journey, where I was self soothing with, you know, I started a shoe obsession with going out and buying heels that made me feel pretty. But now do I wear those heels ever? No. Yeah, we all walk around in tennis shoes now. And so one of the questions is that you just really having with yourself of Yeah. Wow, do I really need this? But wow, could that have money have gone here? And just having that that monthly clean outs? Whether it's your closet, or your bank account? Really looking at it and just being honest with yourself? Because a lot of us Yeah, we self soothe with buying and it it's so easy today with online everything.

Thor Challgren  
Yeah. How do you view the advice where sometimes people will say if you're going to buy something like hold off 24 hours and see if you still really want it 24 hours from now, do you think that works?

Tricia Daniel  
I do it all the time. I do it all the time, because I used to be this and if it was on sale, I was a sucker for the sale, if it's 70% off, you know, and so I even though I had been educated about money since the very young age, I still have to have checks systems in place for myself. Even today is we're all human. We all go through things we all emotionally buy. So having that 24 hours, yes, I have to leave in the cart back away, think about it, and then come back. I do it frequently. Because the impulse buying is where I know for myself, has gotten me into trouble. So I firmly believe yes, and just giving it just 24 hours just yeah. Do I need it? No, I don't.

Thor Challgren  
So I have one other sort of buying question, because I think we're probably all to some degree, very good at justifying purchases, like even if it's for business or something where we might go like, well, if I do that, that'll be so helpful to me, and I'll make money or it will help me in this or that. How do we look at those sort of decisions where maybe we kind of have this inner feeling like we're justifying a purchase, we don't need or we're making an investment we don't need How do you deal with that kind of situation while still working within a budget.

Tricia Daniel  
I like to sometimes especially to if you have the justification, because oh yeah, I can justify, I usually justify food all the time. Like, why a pizza is healthy. So we can do that all the time. But the same thing I bring up your why is a P O protein, dairy. Same thing, if I'm looking at something that I swear is going to help my business make money. I now write it down. So I visually see it. How was it gonna make me make money? And I'm gonna write it out on a piece of paper. So visually, I have to see I can't just justify it in my mind. I need to see it on paper. How is it going to make my business grow? I love to forecast. If I spent this much today, what can it truly bring? And so it just start a thought process by just even writing it down the word, the item on a piece of paper it really makes you start to really think okay, am I just justifying this because I really want the pizza? Or is this truly something I'm going to buy for my business? That's going to be a game changer.

Thor Challgren  
Have you ever found when you wrote something down that looking at it in black and white now you're like, oh, maybe I don't? Oh, all the time. Okay,

Tricia Daniel  
I get things I do. I mean, these are things I actually do. You know, because as my business I've been a financial controller for 23 years that in public accounting, and as my business has switch, and as now we're you know, I'm helping people more online with their money mindsets as they start their businesses as they start over. You know, there's been a shift. And so I used to have to sit and go, okay. Do I really need this? Do I really need this online tool? Do I? Do I need this VA? You have to sit there as are we all transition, whether it's starting over, after children move out whether it's starting a new business, really taking the time to look at it, because everything is always evolving.

Thor Challgren  
Yeah. Okay, so let's finalize with this last thing that that we can do. So if it's just me, what's one thing I can do today regarding money and my own relationship to it?

Tricia Daniel  
Just once a week, sit down with yourself. Perfect. Download yourself once a week, keep yourself accountable. Because you have to live with you.

Thor Challgren  
I love that. Well, Tricia, this been so amazing. I really loved our conversation for people who want to know more about you, and what you do, how can they best reach out to you?

Unknown Speaker  
You can reach me at Triciadaniel.com. That's triciadaniel.com. And there, you will find all the ways to work with me. I also have a podcast called starting overwhelmed for people starting over after divorce or passing of a spouse to be able to stand on their own two feet. So I'd love to connect with you answer any further of your questions.

Thor Challgren  
Awesome. Well, I'll make sure that we have your website and then also your podcast in the show notes. So thank you so much. I really appreciate you being on the show today.

Tricia Daniel  
Yeah, thank you so much, though I would greatly appreciate it and I loved it.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai