E53: Mike Johnson

This episode features a deep dive with TSN Hockey analyst Mike Johnson on the upcoming 2026 IIHF U20 World Hockey Championship aka The World Juniors, (1:32) Steve & Paul debate the most notable number 53s in pro sports, (7:41) Steve shares an bizarre story tied to E52, (12:42) Mike Johnson intro, (14:34) his tournament preparations, (16:00) shifting gears from mid-season NHL to analyzing the top under-20 players in the world, (18:37) the amount of resources TSN invests in these broadcasts, (19:20) TSN’s philosophy of celebrating the greatness of the game & skill of best under-20 players in the world, (22:17) focus level of Team Canada versus their opponents, (23:50) Canada’s emotional investment in this annual event, (28:50) the competitive balance of the under-20 landscape, (32:12) the TSN-IIHF partnership, (35:00) a holiday season staple for Canadians, (35:40) TSN Play-by-Play announcer Gord Miller, an integral part of TSN’s coverage for 30+ years, (39:30) favorite moments from tournaments past, (42:07) thoughts & predictions on this year’s tournament in Minnesota, (43:45) supplemental programming & how TSN stick-handles 80+ hours of television over the two weeks, (47:55) the boys talk about their World Juniors experience with a peak behind the curtain of Paul’s 16-year run at this tournament, (52:55) the episode wraps up with social media promotion and a shout-out to our newest Truckers in Sydney Australia, Abilene Texas & Yorkton Saskatchewan.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:37

I've produced HockeyNet in Canada, the Great Cup on CBC, SportsNet Hockey Studio at the Olympic Winter Games, and about all 15 other sports. On total, I'm at Big Mouth Sports.

SPEAKER_03 0:50

I'm Paul Hemming. I've been a live sports TV director for over 25 years. At the best seat in the house for some of the biggest moments in sports, including the Great Cup, the Winter Olympics, 16 consecutive World Junior Championships, and a Stanley Cup final. Currently I'm the director for the NHL's Utah Mammoth. You can find me on social media at Paul Hemming underscore.

SPEAKER_02 1:14

Episode 53, or as I like to call it, the World Junior Championship episode.

SPEAKER_03 1:20

Right, buddy? Yeah. All world juniors all the time today with Mike Johnson. That's gonna be awesome. One of my favorite times of the year, I'm not gonna lie. Yeah, me too.

SPEAKER_02 1:31

Uh notable number 53s in professional sports. Last episode we were four for four. I feel like that's not gonna happen today, but you started off. Yeah, you never know, right?

SPEAKER_03 1:42

No. Somebody call hell because I think it froze over in 52. Um let's start where we always start with the NHL. Partner, I'm torn on this one. Statistically, it's Jeff Skinner. Just played his 1100th game. He's got over 700 points. Right. But my winged wheeled heart says Mo Cider. Uh, but I think the real candidate has to be in Dallas, Wyatt Johnson. That guy is incredibly skilled. And I think when we get to episode 153, I think it's gonna be Wyatt Johnson again. So my vote goes for Wyatt Johnson.

SPEAKER_02 2:21

Yeah, it could be. Um, I had Jeff Skinner. Uh, did you not have Derek Morris? No, no, I didn't have Derek Morris. No. That's a that's a that's a good one, though. Well, every once in a while I fluke one off. I also have only because he played for my Mississauga St. Michael's majors in the Ontario Hockey League, and it is a kind of a CHL show, uh, Casey Sizekis.

SPEAKER_03 2:46

Oh, yes. Right. That's right. The uh the uh energy guy on the fourth line on the island. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know. I'm not sure if he if he falls in the notable category, but you know what? Um given your love of junior hockey, Steve, we'll we'll let you have that one. Thank you. All right, um, I think we're definitely gonna agree on MLB. Okay. Uh I think we'll be one for two after. It has to be, it's only can be one guy, Don Drysdale. It only can be Don Drysdale. Right? Uh Hall of Famer 1984, eight-time All-Star, three-time World Series champion, and then 1962. I remember it well, Steve. I was 10 years old, so I young award winner. No, you don't.

SPEAKER_02 3:30

You know, it's funny. I don't remember Don Drysdale pitching because he was before my time as a pitcher, but he was a Montreal Expos broadcaster with Dave Van Horn forever. And then of course, I always always go like, didn't he? He collapsed in his hotel room in Montreal or something and died, right? Well, six degrees of separation, Steve.

SPEAKER_03 3:51

Uh oh, oh no. You were don't tell me you were in Montreal. I was not only in Montreal, I was in the hotel. Oh, the same hotel, the Sheraton in Montreal. That's where the Dodgers stayed, and that's where we stayed as part of the TSN production team. And that was I was working the expos season that year, and uh yeah, it was really bizarre. We didn't uh nobody knew what was going on with Don, and there was panic right into late in the afternoon before they actually revealed what happened. So yeah, um Don Drysdale. Um that name will always ring a bell for me because of that.

SPEAKER_02 4:25

Yeah, great picture, but I'm with you. That's that's what kind of sticks in my mind, unfortunately.

SPEAKER_03 4:32

Let's what let's land on a on a happy note. Okay. Um for those for our listeners that are old enough to remember the Brady Bunch, he had a a cameo on the Brady Bunch. Yeah, he did. Remember when he pitched in the backyard with Greg Brady? You know I did on the Astro Turf right there in the studio. Oh yeah. So I I want to choose to end it on that memory, which is a happy one. What a great day that was for Greg Brady. It is. I wish he just fired a bullet right through Greg's glove. That would have been cool. Right. Or through the neighbor's window. Right? All right, on to the NFL. Um there's uh three candidates here, all from sort of different eras. Um we'll start uh back in the black and white days. Mick Tinglehoff, Iron Man Center for the Vikings, who started 240 consecutive games, six-time Pro Bowler, Hall of Fame in 2015. Yes, partner.

unknown 5:28

What do you mean? What do you mean?

SPEAKER_02 5:29

Black and white, the the Minnesota Vikings at Metropolitan Stadium. That there was some there was we were in color by then.

SPEAKER_03 5:36

Were we? Are you sure? Moving moving more towards the 20th century, uh Randy Gratishar from the Broncos, seven-time Pro Bowler, 78 defensive player of the year, and a football hall of famer in 2024. Yeah, but my vote goes to somebody as a kid growing up in London, Ontario, we would get their games as the game of the week almost every week. The New York Football Giants, Harry Carson, nine-time Pro Bowler and a Super Bowl champion. Harry Carson gets my vote. I bet Harry Carson did it really quietly.

SPEAKER_02 6:10

Like just you didn't stand up, didn't beat his chest. Next thing you knew, Harry Carson was wrapped around you and you were looking up at the sky. Yeah. He was number one on my list. He's pretty good.

SPEAKER_03 6:21

All right, two for three, not bad, partner. Yeah. Uh this one probably is we're gonna end up two for four, I think. Uh NBA. Uh again, uh, I had I came up with three three legitimate candidates. Um, and I'll work backwards. Okay. Uh first one was Daryl Dawkins, Chocolate Thunder. Right. Famous for littering NBA courts with shattered backboards. Correct. You know, uh with the Sixers and the Nets. Um, I have to give this one just because of doing this podcast from Salt Lake City, Utah, literally across the street from where the Jazz play. Right. So I would be remiss if I didn't say Mark Eaton, two-time player of the year, holds the NBA record for blocks per game in a season, and had his number retired by the hometown jazz. So he's got to make he has to make my list. But I'm going to give my vote for uh number 53 in the NBA to Artist Gilmore, 11-time NBA All-Star, ABA MVP, rookie of the year. This guy was an absolute stud for the Bulls, Spurs, and Celtics.

SPEAKER_02 7:21

Artis Gilmore was the Bulls before the Bulls were the Bulls. He was like they had not much going when Artis Gilmore was the center, you know, hauling it up and down the court. He was number one on my list.

SPEAKER_03 7:34

All right. Well, there you go. Three for four, 75%, Steve. Solid. I did not get that in school, so I will take that.

SPEAKER_02 7:41

Okay, before we get to Mike Johnson, I have what I would only call something bizarre that happened to me in the last week, and it has to do with the podcast. So you remember episode 52, we interviewed Alex Faust, and he told a story about not being too up on the history of the LA Kings when he was in Los Angeles, and he was at a function and somebody put him in a headlock, right?

SPEAKER_03 8:09

Yeah, Tiger Williams.

SPEAKER_02 8:11

Right. Dave Tiger Williams, who we all know. I don't even I haven't even looked it up. Is he still the all-time penalty minutes leader in the NHL? Oh, I'd be surprised if he wasn't. Yeah, me too. So let's let's assume he is. And if not, there'll be a gong right here to correct me. No, I hear no gong. Um, so two days ago, we've done this podcast, you dropped it. Two days ago, I'm at Canada Post in Calgary on Kensington, Kensington and 14th, as a matter of fact. And I'm standing there and I'm waiting to buy one of those prepaid boxes so we can send a bunch of Christmas stuff to our son. And I'm just standing there, and you know, I don't know, you've been with me enough times to know that I'm standing there, but I'm thinking about 10,000 different things. And I look over to my right, and there's a guy, and I can only see him in profile. I can't see his face full on. Yeah, and I'm like, hmm, that guy looks familiar. And then I just look back and then I look back again, and then he kind of looks at me, and now he I know he's looking at me. I'm in Calgary, okay? He's looking at me, right? Yeah, and and I look back and I'm like, damn, that guy looks like Tiger Williams, but there's no way that's why would Tiger Williams be standing at Canada Post in Calgary? Not a chance. No, so I'm next, and okay, I'm about to step up, and the lady behind the counter looks over at Tiger. I guess I kind of gave that away, didn't I? The lady looks over at this guy who looks uncannily like Tiger Williams and says, You're next, sir. What did you need? And he says, Oh, I just need to mail this. And then, of course, as soon as he talks, right? It's Tiger Williams, right? Dude, what the hell? A, is he doing a Canada post in Calgary? And what are the odds that we had just talked about him?

SPEAKER_03 10:07

I know, right? I I I would have gone right to the convenience store and bought a lottery ticket. Should have. Because that would be like one in a million.

SPEAKER_02 10:15

Should have not that smart. So he just quickly hands the envelope, and I'm like, Well, this isn't going by. So I said, Dave, and he turns and I said, I can't believe that's you. I said, My partner in the podcast, Paul Hemming, and I talked about you this week on the podcast. And he said, Oh, yeah, you got a podcast? I said, Yeah. I said, We talked about the time you put Alex Faust in the headlock. And he said, Alex, I said, Yeah, he was a play-by-play guy for the Kings. And one time you were at a function and I didn't get to finish. And he goes, Oh, yeah, I remember that. Yeah, that's awesome. And I said, I said, What are you up to? Where are you going? What are you doing? And he said, I'm on my way to Toronto, actually. I'm gonna see George Shivalo, and you know George Shivalo, the heavyweight fighter. Yeah, yeah. And he said, Uh, he's not doing too well, and I said, He's not, and he said, No, and then he took his hat off, and his hat had like you know, Chevallo 88 or something on the front of it. Might have been a birthday for him, uh for Shivalo, I don't know, but he kind of pointed at it and he said, He's 88 now, and he's kind he kind of can't get out of bed, and so I'm going to Toronto and I really hope I make it. And I said, uh, I said, George will hang in there for you, Tiger. And I said, have a great day. And I said, Oh, before you go, can we take a selfie? So I'm gonna post the selfie. And he said, sure. So I took it and he said, Make sure you tell everybody who that good looking guy is with you. Right? So now we know it's Tiger Williams, and he said, and I said, You got it. Have a great day, buddy. Goes, you too, and he walked away. So that was my encounter with 80-year-old Tiger Williams, like out of nowhere.

SPEAKER_03 11:58

Well, that is so so bizarre, so bizarre. What a great story! Two two Canadian heavyweight champions right there. That's right. Yeah, and he tiger is the all-time NHL penalty minute leader with 3,971, uh, still 400 plus over Dale Hunter, Ty Domey, and Marty McSorley round out the top four. So, yeah. What a what a day at Canada Post and Kensington Calgary. Who would have thunk it?

SPEAKER_02 12:27

Absolutely bizarre. And then I I you know I asked a bunch of people, like just based on the craziest coincidence you can think of, and it's people who had heard the podcast. Who do you think I ran into today? And nobody got it. Duh. Yeah. Well, our guest today, Paul, doesn't have nearly as many penalty minutes as Dave Tiger Williams. But Mike Johnson played 12 years in the NHL for Toronto, Tampa, Phoenix, Montreal, and St. Louis. His broadcasting career began in 2011 with TSN's Winnipeg Jets package. Johnny, as he's known in NHL circles, is also on the NHL network. But right now, this very moment, he's gearing up for his fifth double IHF U-20 World Junior Championship, better known as just the World Juniors. And that's this year in Minnesota, starting on Boxing Day. And Mike takes some time away from his prep to talk to us about nothing but the world juniors.

SPEAKER_03 13:22

Mike, welcome back to Inside the Truck. Uh, first off, we have a little bit of housekeeping to take care of. We have to congratulate you, my friend. Uh, you are only the second ever repeat guest on Inside the Truck. And it only took us 32 episodes to have you back. That's our bad. But congratulations for being a repeat uh offender, or I guess, or guest, whatever you want to call it.

SPEAKER_01 13:43

I looked the congratulations going your way that you've been around long enough to warrant a recycling of me. That's clearly you've had a nice run here. So yeah, happy to be talking to both of you guys. You know, I love you both and uh working with you and chatting with you. So all good, my pleasure.

SPEAKER_02 13:58

Recycling.

SPEAKER_03 14:01

Thanks for taking time out of your extremely busy hectic hockey schedule. Um, your life is busy enough with all your NHL commitments. But uh, as we ramp up to World Juniors, we wanted to have you back and just talk about uh what is um, you know, uh, with the exception of maybe arguably Grey Cup, the greatest day in TSN and uh and I would say argue not only hockey broadcasting, but broadcasting tradition in Canada. So uh first of all, have you had your chance to get your head around? I know you've done an exhibition game, had a chance to get your head around the tournament coming up in Minnesota starting Boxing Day.

SPEAKER_01 14:33

It sneaks up on you, Chop. You know this so well. Um, you know, because every year it's basically a new crop of kids, right? Like there might be two, three, four, five attorneys, but that means there's 20 new guys every year and jump into the world championship. I could do that in my sleep. NHL games, no problem at all. But you know, you have to learn not just the nuts and bolts of their names and where they're from and where they play. But to me, when I do my job, I like to know something about the player, not like, oh, what he did in grade school, but like what he plays like. And I need to see him play to get a feel of what they play like. What does this guy do when he's doing playing well? What does he look like when he's not playing well? And it takes me about a game, game and a half to at least get some semblance of an idea. So that's the hard part. Like I did an exhibition game the other night, Canada and Sweden. And um, you know, I've heard of all the players or most of them, but I haven't seen them, my my own eyes. So that part is the challenging part. And that's where the first like four days of the tournament, you're sort of drinking from a fire hose. You're trying to absorb all these different things, remember what you thought and what you felt. So um, I'll get there. We always do. It always seems daunting, and you're not gonna be able to, but we'll always get there.

SPEAKER_02 15:45

It's funny because uh as you're talking, I'm thinking of my next question. I'm thinking, oh, does he use a different brain when he's watching this and having to learn at the same time? Because in the NHL, you've probably got most of it learned, but it's a different brain, right?

SPEAKER_01 15:59

It's a different process. Like during the game, Steve, like I don't I'm between the benches in the NHL or even on the booth. I never look at notes, I just watch the game. I make copious amounts of notes. Chop would know this, but I don't ever reference them. I guess making them makes me remember them, but I don't ever look at them. Whereas in these games, like I am like I got my fingers on the lines because I find it easiest to memorize who's playing with who by their lines. And I kind of put trios together and I get recollection that way. And um, you know, remembering where guys played and what their stats were, it's not all so instinctive like it would be the NHL. So absolutely, I don't know if it's a different part of my brain, but it's definitely like mechanically a different process going through early. But the whole goal is by the time I get three days into the tournament, I don't look at my notes anymore. I'm just calling the game, I sort of have a feel for what's going on, and it becomes more instinctive. But you the other part is you absolutely have to remind yourself, and I did it again last night. Every time I go into the junior tournament, because they are so great, these are incredible young athletes, but they're not NHL players. And they're not as good as NHL players, and you have to drop your level of comparison from oh, I was watching, you know, Carnival Dard and Austin Matthews the night before, and now I'm watching Gavin McKenna and and Ivar Stenberg, who might be first and second in the draft, but they're not nearly as good as the as the third line players last night. And you gotta remember that they are just teenagers and they're not as good. So you gotta like lower your expectations or your the way you analyze the game, understanding it's not the NHL, they're not as good as the NHL players.

SPEAKER_03 17:41

I will say uh that was Steve, you you you took and Johnny you segued right out of my question. I was just like, do you have to gear it down at all? Right, but you kind of have to do, but you also have to package it up as again, these are the greatest players in the world at at the under under 20 age. Um, one thing that uh you don't have to gear down is the uh embarrassment of riches that TSN puts out for this broadcast. With the exception of Grey Cup, uh, I would say this is the most heavily resourced show on the planet. There's nothing that you guys want for in that, which allows you to execute arguably the best hockey broadcast of the year, really at any level. Um, how does that uh affect your uh judgment on that? I know a lot of it has will have to do with the producer and the director with what they provide you, but like, do you want all kinds of looks from every different angle? You want guys in ISO, you want to really break it down forensically, or do you just kind of sit back, enjoy all the toys, and and let the game unfold and give you the show?

SPEAKER_01 18:36

Yeah, you're exactly right, though. It is amazing how like the cameras and the angles. And first off, full credit. Like, I like to muck around on the cameras, like the camera people are incredible, like like they they do stuff and following the puck and finding shots that like why would you be doing that? But they just sort of know what to do, and then of course, you know, tape and like you know, an NHL game, we might have three tape, four tapes, maybe not really five. We got like you know, rows, six, seven people cutting tapes. It is there's so much there. Um then it's like almost beyond me. Like, I don't know, like the exmo reverse robocam. Like I might say the term, but I'm not quite sure what it is. But I know it looks cool. I I think what TSN does a such a great job of, and I'm a very small part of it, is celebrating the game and celebrating the excellence. Whereas, you know, when I'm calling a game the NHL, it might be like celebrate the goal, why it happened, that was a good play, but also like this was the mistake and this is where it broke down, and these are the things that happened that could have prevented it. And maybe instinctively we try to remember that it's these kids are doing their best they can. Celebrate the greatness, as opposed to like maybe point out the shortcomings as quickly. You do, I always do, I can't help it, but maybe that'd be one other element of it. And as far as like how I put the replay together, um, probably standard issue NHL stuff. Like, you know, you look at the goal, you look at the lead up to the goal, how it kind of developed. But then maybe the second time through, like you get such great. Like, I think the Connor Bedard, where I was spoiled, like my first sort of in-person attendant World Jr. was Connor Bedard's, what it's called that one in Halifax. And how many great, super slow-mo, I don't know what the term is, X Mo of him shooting a puck with his eyes closed, like and just visually bringing you right into that experience. That's the stuff that all the bells and whistles get you that take you inside the good and the bad and the joy and the heartache and all of it. And like that's where the production, uh, producer, director, all those guys feed that to me because it it even I get like that's great. Like, I get into it and you kind of feel the game more than just explaining the game.

SPEAKER_03 20:50

Yeah, the technology is overwhelming. You're right. I mean, on any goal, you could have easily a five, six, seven, eight look replay sequence, right? So then it's on the producer and yourself working in tandem in real time to go, okay, like, okay, we have to break this down. What how did this play happen? Good and bad. And then you go from the X's and O's, and you end up by the end of it, you're looking at like what we call eye candy, right? It's the pretty features on the way out.

SPEAKER_01 21:14

So but sometimes, Chop, like, like in the biggest, like in the big moments, if it's a late goal, it's almost like, let's go eye candy first. Like, let's let's let the euphoria or the disappointment, a heartbreak of the moment, like, let's just let that marinate. Let people just wash over the moment, the feeling, and then like, yeah, I gotta explain why that goal went in or whatever. But like in those big moments, like I think over times and late games, and like you just want to just feel it as opposed to maybe even understand it.

SPEAKER_03 21:47

Yeah, our jobs uh in broadcast is to put the viewer in the best seat in the house at the at the event. And if that, like you say, an emotional moment like that, it's just like you know, you're just soaking it all in, the awe of it, right? Okay, let me ask you this how much emphasis, if you can break it down like out of 100, like what what how much emphasis do you put on Canada only? You know, is it 75, 25 the opponent? Does it depend depend on who's playing for the other team? Uh, how much of a Canadian night show are you doing each night?

SPEAKER_01 22:17

Well, I mean, I think the focus is probably 60 to 70 percent Canada, and that means, you know, and and depends on their opponent and the American team has great stars, or Swedish team might have great stars, and you focus on them as well. But that doesn't mean like I'm cheerleading for Canada. It just means I'm explaining largely what's happening with Canada more than I am with Sweden. So if Canada is not playing well, you sort of explain why that's happening while you know, celebrating Sweden for what they're doing right. Um, yeah, it's kind of like two-thirds, one-third, something like that, where you know, focused on the Canadian team, the Canadian athletes, their stories, and what's going on in relation to their team, uh, but not get so caught up for it. Like it's a competition, there's other teams playing, and when those teams do something well, you you know, I'm not gonna ignore it. I wouldn't want to. I would feel foolish to do so. But it's a Canadian show about Canadian players and a Canadian team. And what we're lucky with, Chop, is generally speaking, they give you something good to work with. Like year after year, you think, you know, it's gonna be different, maybe you'll be flat, it won't feel the same, but there's always something, always something to latch on to. Uh, but yeah, it's it's a Canadian-centric broadcast we do for TSM, but not um necessarily a pro-Canadian team broadcast.

SPEAKER_02 23:32

I would say this is right up there with the Olympics and the Four Nations, which we just experienced last winter. Um, not so much television, but does Canada take it too hard when we lose? And do we get too euphoric when we win? Like, is this overblown in our Canadian minds this tournament?

SPEAKER_01 23:50

Yeah, well, Steve, like I think Canada likes stuff we're good at. Like, I mean, whatever it is, like if it's on a global stage and we got a great singer, a great actor, a great hurler, whatever, like we really lean into what we're good at because we know we don't have maybe the volume that some of the bigger countries have. I do think so, and it's hockey, right? And so we we and when when Russia was in the tournament, like there's a lot of different elements that go to why Canada um celebrates this so much. So I don't necessarily feel bad about the upside of like really getting behind a team or the athletes and you know, maybe sticking your chest out, feeling good that Canada does well. Where it can get strong is when they don't do well. And whether they just don't play well, or sometimes it's a bad break. Was I don't know, was it two years ago? I think a puck went in off Oliver Bonk skate and ended their tournament with a couple minutes left. I play with Oliver's dad, Raddock, and Oliver has been through some stuff with people he knows and mental health, and you know, the bombardment of stuff that he would hear and through social media that people think it's okay to say that to a 19-year-old who had a tough break in an athletic competition. Yeah, totally over the top, inappropriate, not right, and not any sort of perspective on the importance of this tournament. But I think that you know, the upside, yes, the downside can be a bit much when clearly they're doing their best, whatever country we're talking about. And if it doesn't go well, if you're Canada, nobody's more disappointed than the players. No one wants it better than them. And so, in that sense, you got to like you know, pump the brakes a little bit on how much criticism you offer up.

SPEAKER_02 25:28

And that's where it's borderline cruel, because you said 19 years old, and earlier you mentioned these guys aren't NHL players, but I think that gets lost in the wash sometimes.

SPEAKER_01 25:38

Well, and we're you know, we're part of that because we build them up, they become superhuman, they become adults, they become celebrities, they become, you know, big, larger than life players. When like I have daughters that are 21 and 19. Like I can't imagine them, and my daughters are relatively well, you know, organized young women, but like dealing with the pressure and then the fallout of when things don't go well. Like, it's a lot, it's a lot that these kids are are going through. And yes, the rewards are great and they're gonna be great in the going forward, but they're not there yet. These kids are barely out of high school, barely out of high school. So, yeah, it's it's it's a good reminder of everyone um when you just sort of you know enjoy the tournament, but not take it to that level of of personal affront if it doesn't go the way you want as a viewer.

SPEAKER_03 26:30

Yeah, you talk we talk about the pressure put on by you know on social media, people watching, but et cetera, et cetera. But nobody puts as much pressure on themselves as the kids do. Uh, I'll never forget coming back from 2002 World Juniors in Finland, they lost uh in the gold medal game on when Steve Ott threw the puck over the glass, and it was the first time they had kind of been this as a delay of game penalty. And so uh they lost to uh Russia in in uh in in that gold medal game. And I'll never forget at the airport going home, we were all in the same flight. The kids all had their medals folded up in their pockets, and Stan Butler, the head coach, went around to every kid at the gate and said, Get your medal out, put it on, wear it proudly. You know, in there up until then, there was like this thought of like you win a gold, you lose a silver or a bronze, right? No, right, never forget that. And all the kids, too, man, pulled them all out, put them on, wore them. And when you know, you they come through the doors at Pearson and everybody's there in the media and all that, and they were welcome home. They all proudly were displaying their silver medals. And I thought, you know, good on stand for that. Those boys, they worked their butts off and they deserved every second and every ounce of that silver medal.

SPEAKER_01 27:37

Doesn't feel that way in the moment, though. And I get it, as an athlete and as a Canadian athlete with hockey, that's not sort of how you're wired. It's we win gold or we have failed. That's sort of a normal experience. But uh, I I think it was it, Leis Anderson, too, the the the Swedish player who threw his silver into the stands, like he chucked it or gave it to a family member or something. He was heavily criticized of like, you know, again, they are just kids, uh, or the way the bronze medal winner celebrates wildly, and then the silver medal loot team that wins a silver medal, they're devastated, even though they did better than the team celebrating. It's all the psychology behind it, it's all very normal. But yeah, I mean, if you were to ask a team, if you're asked the Americans or the Swedes or the Czechs or Canada or Finland, if they lose the gold medal game, they will not be happy. And I get it as an athlete, I get that.

SPEAKER_02 28:28

So you just named all those other teams that, not sake of argument, 40 years ago, 30 years ago, weren't really part of the championship swirl at the at the world junior, but now they kind of are. Um, how has that tournament morphed over the years? Like USA and to me and Canada are just kind of right there.

SPEAKER_01 28:49

Well, I mean, I think it's really the US has changed like the entire paradigm of hockey that they have so many great players that U.S. development program that they started, whatever it was 20 years ago, has done exactly what it set out to do. Turn out great American talent.

SPEAKER_00 29:09

The U.S. National Team Development Program was launched in 1996. It provides a way to identify elite hockey players under the age of 18 and centralize their training. To date, 408 NTDP players have been drafted by NHL teams. And Rick DiPietro, Eric Johnson, Patrick Kane, Austin Matthews, and Jack Hughes each went first overall.

SPEAKER_01 29:33

It's top, Heavy Lee. They take the best 30 kids in the country and put them on the same team and have them compete. But they turn out great players, star players. So, you know, the last two years, the Americans have won. Canada didn't even get to the final. But you went into those tournaments saying the Americans are clearly the best team. And they should win. Not they can win, but they should win. And that's new-ish, like not new the last two years, but in 1999, that wasn't the case. Like that sort of was a mid-2000s development. And then, you know, Sweden's always been around it. Um, occasionally they have a group of great players that you know really push the limits. And then Russia, it's almost on the other way. Now they're not in the tournament anymore for the last few years, but even prior to that, they used to also have these great teams that would stare down Canada and they'd be like, Yeah, we're every bit as Canada, every bit as good as Canada. That's not necessarily been the case either. They have great players and great moments and great talents, but they haven't had the depth of players that Canada and the US can churn out. And that's why, whether you're talking about the Olympics, Canada and the US are clearly ahead of everybody else at the world juniors, Canada, US clearly ahead of everyone else. And it's really been the growth of the Americans that that has changed everything. And what is fascinating, because I kind of within the NHL, when there was still the sense, I think, even though the US won what the 96 World Cup, I was in college then, that Canada was always better. Canada would always win. Like when push comes to shove, Canada just figures it out. And these the group of American players that are gonna play in Milan, the ones who play next week in Minnesota, they don't think that anymore. The fact that the American players have zero fear, zero intimidation, zero sort of scar tissue of Canada being, you know, the unbeatable team in the big moments. That's great for hockey. I mean, that's not great for Canada results all the time, but that's great for hockey. And that has definitely changed the last 15 years, let's say.

SPEAKER_03 31:36

We make no bones about the fact that this is a TSN double IHF partnership, um, the rights to these broadcasts. Um, so therefore, we you, you know, TSN and and you and and the front bench and everybody else that's involved. Um, I know that back on my run from 99 to 2014, that was a very tight connection. And basically, I wouldn't say the broadcasts were shills for Hockey Canada, but uh it was you know heavily, heavily influenced. Has that changed at all? I haven't been around the tournament like on site since 2015. How how is that relationship and uh and does that affect you at all in the booth?

SPEAKER_01 32:12

I'd say almost above my pay grade shop, right? Like I don't sort of that doesn't come down to touch me. We know Hockey Canada has been through um some significant changes and and maybe some important ones, probably still going on there. And I think that TSN is mindful of being appropriate with what's going on in the world. And and we want to celebrate Canadian young hockey players, you want to celebrate Hockey Canada and all the good it can do without being, you know, ignorant of the fact that there is stuff else happening around. But again, like that was always, you know, Paul Graham, who's just recently retired, was there our boss at TSN and ran the live events. Um, he's not there anymore. He he just stepped down. So Arden, our new boss, is wonderful and brilliant and an amazing lady. She's kind of going through it. But um, you know, there might be Hockey Canada ads, but I've never chopped. I've never, and like I'm a little bit different because I went to college, right? I didn't play junior. And so this, you know, the Canadian call, like college versus the CHL was always a bit of a, you know, a sensitive topic for you know, Hockey Canada because, you know, their premier development path is through the CHL. So I was always like kind of cognizant of that, you know, not taught, you know, not being overly bullish on college relative to the CHL, but now that's out the window too. Because like how there's like seven college players, all the best players, whether it's Verhoff or McKenna or Hage or whoever, they're all playing down in college anyway. So that's also out the window. Um, yeah, so that partnership is super important. TFN, IHF, we have the world championship, we have the women's stuff. Um, but it doesn't really get to me. Yeah, that's sort of production side. Um, but I do think it has evolved over the last 10 years, maybe since you've been gone.

SPEAKER_03 33:54

Yeah, I mean, the the one moment that comes to my mind is uh the world juniors in 2006, I want to say, was in Vancouver. Uh Canada was playing Russia, it was a metal round game. And uh there was a goal scored by Evgeny Malkin that was in and out around the padding very quickly. And uh we'll just leave it at the last look. Was the was the net cam, which was after they started playing again. So I'll just leave it. I'll just leave it at that.

SPEAKER_01 34:20

I would be weirded out. Like, I I think I I think as much as I love Canada, and I do, uh like the principal person to me, like like we can't do that. Like we have to show that. So yeah, and we did we did, we just made sure they dropped the fucking after the puck was dropped. Yeah, my parents were at that. That's how big this tournament is. Like, I was in the NHL, I was 31 years old, 32 years old. My parents at Christmas, they're not coming to see me in Arizona, they went to Vancouver to go watch the World Juniors um as guest of uh Enchanawis. So yeah, it was uh it's it's it's a Canadian thing. Like if you're involved in hockey at all, yeah. This tournament, like I was never a contender to play on it. But when I was in high school, when I was at university, my parents would used to bring me VCR tapes. Kids Google it if you want to see what that is, like a DVD of the games where I would watch in university, we would kind of watch them back. So it's sort of uh a holiday season staple, no matter whether you're you know how close you're all involved in the team. If you're Canadian, you like hockey, you can't help but sort of get swept up in it.

SPEAKER_03 35:22

Yeah, well, we talk about the music. The Canadian international hockey music is really the official Christmas music of Canada, right? When you hear that, you know, when you hear the big time here. Yeah, it's Christmas music. Okay, I want to switch gears and move to the your partner in the booth, Gord Miller, uh, who's been the voice of this tournament for decades.

SPEAKER_01 35:42

30. I asked him yesterday. I think he said 33rd year doing the tournament, and he might have done seven or eight or nine years hosting it as like studio host, and then 20 odd. Like it's just wow, he is the voice. Here's my Gordon Miller story, real quick. We were in Edmonton, my first tournament as the lead analyst. It was like the summer Edmonton tournament, it was post-COVID, it was just kind of trickling out.

SPEAKER_02 36:06

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:06

And Brennan Offman, he's the young fleet ranger at draft pick, whose uncle played with me somehow in junior. He we saw him and his family in the street, and Brennan's parents and Brennan came up and said, Mike, hey, gave me the phone, said, Can you take a picture of us off of us with Gord? I'm like, Oh God, here we go. But and then they did it and they said thanks. And and they and Brink Brennan had scored the game before. And Brennan said, One of my goals in life was to have you call a goal of mine in this tournament. Wow. I'm like, that is I mean, Gord, you're old, but also that is that's beautiful, right? Like that that's like that's what he is to young hockey players when it comes to this tournament.

SPEAKER_03 36:46

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, he's IHF royalty, right? In 2013, he was acknowledged for his contributions to international ice hockey and you know, at a ceremony over in Europe. And I mean, let's face it, in those 30 years, he's forgotten more about this tournament than most people will ever know or live or have a chance to witness, right? So, given that, um, how does the conversational storytelling kind of flow work between you and him in the booth? Because he does a great job of being able to shift gears from you know letting the viewer know exactly who he needs to know, what he needs to know in that moment, but he's also got one hell of a mind full of stories uh from the tournament.

SPEAKER_01 37:23

Yeah, there's a reason why he's the best. Like he's he's unreal at this, and it makes my job so much easier. So I want to I don't want to pump him up too much because I gotta work with him the next two weeks. But like it's you know, like he the the storytelling and the historical context to this tournament and moments and his memory. Like, honestly, I've done four of these. I'm like, I don't really who beat who in what tournament. He remembers oh, yeah, Ostrava in '96. I got it. This this I'm like, how?

SPEAKER_03 37:51

And you want to call you call him on it and say, there's no way there's no way that's right. Totally lying. But then you Google it and it's like, no, he's right.

SPEAKER_01 37:59

So so he's obviously he's a master at calling the game straight up. We see a DNHL, like he, you know, he does that flawlessly, but um, you know, he's so good at sort of weaving in stories about the kids and their parents and their journey, uh, and along with me. But and then, you know, the historical idea as well that he's you know he never forgets to kind of bring it back. So um, yeah, he makes my job easier because he knows everything about everyone that's playing in this tournament, but also like literally for 25 years, he knows everything about everyone who played in the tournament. And I I can't, I can't, my mind is that can't absorb that much stuff. So um he carries a lot of that weight, but he does it so effortlessly. And you know, we get games where it's Canada, Denmark, maybe, maybe this year. And maybe that game's gonna be 9-1 in the second period, and so you know, you have time to flesh some of those things out, and that's where he just, you know, I can just leave. You know, he and he would just do it on his own because he's so good at it. But I think that's he he adds to like the the context and like the the flavor of the whole experience is his voice, his experience, uh calling the games, and then his ability to relay that to the viewers. He thought he's it's outrageous how he does it year after year after year. Like, I gotta I gotta learn 20 new players. You know, he's gotta learn 20 new players, stories, parents, right? Tie them all into like the last three decades.

SPEAKER_03 39:21

Well, he truly does eat, sleep, and breathe it, that's for sure. Um, and I saw that being with him for 16 years on that tour. So this is truly a tournament of moments, Johnny. Um, as evidenced uh yearly by the Sports Center's top 10, right? There's there's always there's always a few or a handful or a couple from the tournament. Um, some that come to mind for my run of the 16 years was like Mark Mark Andre Fleury's own goal against USA in Finland, uh the Carrie Price uh semifinal shootout versus USA in Sweden, and then of course the Jordan Eberley goal versus Russia in Ottawa. Do you what are you what are some of your you've been that this is your fifth, I s uh I think so what what are You must have two or three that come to your mind like that.

SPEAKER_01 40:02

So I was totally spoiled, right? My first lead analyst one, I was in Edmonton, even though it was a weird one without a full stands. That was the Mason McTavish pull it off the goal line in the air. Like I know Ken Johnson scored the game winner like two minutes later, but the fact that this puck was going in and like he like he pulled it out of the air. Like, who does that in that moment? It was, you know, a fraction of an inch from being over and double swiped it. Didn't anyway. So like I think about that and the likelihood of him doing that again, the poise and sort of wherewithal to pull it off in the moment. Um, so that stands out for sure. And then my second year was the Bedard tournament. And you know, I think Bedard's performance went a long way to sort of you know getting this tournament back on its on a good path. And I just think about I guess it was the quarterfinal goal in overtime when he deked out the entire team uh and he went through like four guys while setting records left and right, and just the way that building like we've all been fortunate to be in a lot of neat places, right? Watch great games, work in great games, and you know, when the games are that good, it's you can feel the moment. But of all the games I've been to in my life, I've been to Stanley Cup Finals, I was at the Four Nations, like of all the games. I don't know if I've ever had a visceral reaction to a goal that like oozed out of my body like I did for him on that, like just hair on the on its edge and boost pumps everywhere. And I didn't say anything for probably 30 seconds, but I was like freaking out. I was like out of my mind that he pulled this off. So that whole Bedard tournament, but that one overtime goal specifically, um, that one to me stands out as like the single greatest thing I've ever seen for sure. So um, and maybe, and then they're both Canadian. The last two years Canada's lost early, but um, you know, other great moments. But those two stand out as sort of singular events where I was wowed and will never forget what it was like.

SPEAKER_02 42:05

What do you see happening in this year's tournament? Anything, any team you think might surprise you? Some anything like that?

SPEAKER_01 42:13

So what's interesting is you know, this tournament is sort of seeded based on last year's finish. Right. So starters Canada, because they finished fifth, they they start off, they get a crappy dressing room. Like they were kind of talking about it in Minnesota, they're in like the third dressing room of their of their side, which is like the practice rank 200 yards away, which usually they would get the University of Minnesota's home team because they're the first seed. So, you know, little things like that. But the one country I would say watch out for, I think obviously Canada should be good. They're probably the favorite, USA second, Sweden third. Checkia. Chechia is an is a different kind of country because they were the best team in the world 25 years ago, right? Turn of the century, 98 Olympics, 99 world championships, whatever. And then they went on a real downward trend where they were not what they were then. They're sort of back. Like I think they they are not just oh, could they upset a team? They could upset the tournament, like they could win the tournament. I think they have 17 skaters who play in the CHL. Talk about a CHL promo, but like a whole bunch of Czech guys who play in the CHL, they're top guys, and so that's Canada's first game, Boxing Day. The team that's knocked him out two years in a row, uh in the you know, in the quarterfinals, and it's not some sort of layup cupcake game. I think Czeching would be the one team that you'd be like, I didn't know they were that good. They might be that good.

SPEAKER_03 43:42

Last year in Ottawa, TSN produced over 80 hours. So I want to say probably closer to 90 hours of coverage. Uh so uh it is truly an international hockey telethon. Other than doing the games, what other what other side stuff do does TSN have you doing around that? Or do they just let you focus on doing the games?

SPEAKER_01 43:58

Yeah, largely doing the games. I mean, I think the way they do it now, Chop is they stagger the games, right? So there's basically 10 hours straight of games, like it's a noon 2:35, 8 kind of thing where it's just one after another. That makes long days for Duffy, uh, Jimmy and on the set. Um, this is gonna be our first year without Bob McKenzie, which is gonna be very different. You know, the Bob Father, who is you know, as synonymous with this tournament as Gord, really. He's the studio version of Gord. Um, he's not there, so that's it's gonna be Frankie Carrado, who's a really talented uh younger broadcaster, Cheryl Pounder and Jeff O'Neill and James. But uh, I don't have to do too much else. We focus on the games. We call every game, though. We call every game in our in our pool, and then they call every game on the other side as well. Um, you know, there might be some studio contributions. I think you know, we always find a way to, I think the Olympic team is getting announced while we're out there, right? Around New Year's.

SPEAKER_02 44:54

Right on New Year's Eve.

SPEAKER_01 44:55

So we have to do a show with related to the to the Olympic team, which will be a lot of fun. Uh, but largely I think they are sympathetic to our schedule and to my voice. And I don't get how Gord again does this because his job, he talks 70% of the game. I might talk 30. And honestly, it's like it's like my third night in spin-a road at the bar after two days. I'm like, oh, feeling a little hoarse, a little gravelly. So I think, and I try to be very mindful of like not even really talking. I don't go out ever at the World Juniors. I basically just you know sleep, herbal teas and and work when I work, but um, so not too much else for me. There is a ton of studio support, like it is all like it is a massive undertaking. Um, that people on site in Minnesota, back home in Toronto as well, it's uh that put this stuff. But we just basically have to worry about the games, which is enough.

SPEAKER_03 45:45

Yeah, no, exactly. I it we we joked uh on site during my the towards the end of my run, it was like doing the Olympics. You know, you go to the you'd go to the rink at like eight o'clock in the morning, you'd be there till 11 o'clock at night, right?

SPEAKER_01 45:56

Yeah. And you're and you're hopeful what you can sneak 30 minutes to get a bite, yeah, and get a breath of fresh air when you get immediately gonna turn the page. But they're also mixed in chopper. You can appreciate this in the truck. They mix in younger producers occasionally, and depending on the game, if it's maybe not a high profile game, not a Canada game, obviously, but um, you know, to get, as you call them, the front row guys uh a day, uh, a game off so they can take a breath or sleep in or whatever it might be, and get some other people experience. Like, I would imagine doing your guys' job at this tournament is unlike anything else. Like, there's just so much going on, which is both great, but also daunting. So they they do work in other younger producers, directors, TDs to try to get them a little bit of experience of something of this magnitude.

SPEAKER_03 46:45

Kids today, Johnny, they're getting soft, I'm telling you right now, huh? They're killing you. Back in my day, Johnny, we walked to the rink in bare feet through snow banks and we'd sit there and do six games, and then we do the post-game shows, and yeah, yeah, yeah, kids get off my lawn.

SPEAKER_02 46:59

All right, grandpa.

SPEAKER_03 47:00

We're gonna on that, we're gonna end it on that note. Hey, Johnny, thank you so much for joining us. Uh, this is a great uh warm-up uh for our listeners. If uh you haven't watched the tournament, be sure to tune it in. It's unbelievable. It's the best hockey you'll see over the Christmas break. And I'm yes, I'm including the NHL. And as always, Johnny, I know you'll hit a home run as you always do. Say hi to Gord for me and uh wish the boys good luck in Minnesota. Um, I will definitely be watching. First, I have to get the NHL Network package here in Utah, but I I definitely will get that and I will be watching.

SPEAKER_01 47:29

Yeah, listen, I think it's NHL Network carries every game as well, so it should be available to you. Great to talk to you both. Uh always love catching up with both of you guys. And uh happy holidays to you guys and your families. Hope you have a good time, and uh we'll do it again. Maybe I'll be the first ever free-time attendee of your pod.

SPEAKER_03 47:48

Sounds good to me. I think there's a good chance of that, Johnny. Yeah, happy holidays, Johnny.

SPEAKER_02 47:52

All right, thanks, guys. So, how many world juniors did you work on, Paul?

SPEAKER_03 47:58

Uh 16 straight. Uh so my first one was 1999 in Winnipeg at the old arena, and I finished uh in Malmo, Sweden, uh, in 2014. Wow.

SPEAKER_02 48:09

I don't so I I started strangely right after you uh doing the research package every year. I don't I think I did seven world juniors, uh, and every tournament I produced about 720, 730 pages, unique pages, not a typo, 730 unique pages for every broadcaster in that tournament. But one of the things that resonated with me that that Johnny said was when he talked about, you know, sometimes for a for a game that's not a Canada game, obviously, they'll bring in a different uh front deck production team just to give the main group a break. And I I was trying to think, have I done a tournament that that was like that, and I haven't. The closest I came was a couple of years at Sportsnet. We had to do uh in the studio uh 16, probably 20 20 games in 14 days, because some days we had double headers, and by the end of the 14th day, I mean, you don't know which way is frickin' up. Thank God we're not landing planes or fighting fires because it would be a disaster.

SPEAKER_03 49:19

Yeah, anything like that, um, that's kind of marathon telethon TV as I like to call it. Yeah, it is a mental and emotional and physical grind. Uh you have to be prepared for it. Um, not only do you have to prepare for the games, but you have to prepare for how you're gonna manage your day. Uh because it's not just sitting in the truck either and directing the games, it's meetings. It's meeting with the organizing committee, it's meeting game day production meetings, it's meetings, it's meetings, it's meetings, it's Zoom calls, it's like everything. There's not enough seconds in the day for it. So you have to manage all that. Uh, and you have to be able you have to be sure that in the third period of your second or third game of that day that you're just as good as you were in the first period of your first game. Isn't that impossible though? Well, um you know, typically like with the experience that I had on my run, uh the Canadian games were kind of always sort of the last game or the prime time game. So I wouldn't say that I used the first game or two to warm up, but uh, you know, uh it wasn't um game seven of the cup final uh energy out of the gate. You kind of had to pace yourself um and just be ready for it. So I won't lie, when I first started it, it was a lot of Red Bulls until my doctor said you gotta stop taking those because your heart's gonna explode. Um because I would literally have a Red Bull out on the deck getting cold outside, and I would have one per period to the point where the production crew, the technical crew, sorry, would start hiding them on me because they're like, No, you're not having any more Red Bull. So uh yeah, so I I I learned that you had to find other ways to get through it. But yeah, you you had to be sharp as attack right through till the final buzzer of your last game, dude.

SPEAKER_02 51:04

I think it says, doesn't it say right on the can, like no no more than two a day? Yeah, but it's in brackets, is it unless you're doing the world juniors, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 51:13

And like so I got addicted to that literally in Europe, where it was actually the real Taurin or Taurine or however you pronounce it. And literally I could feel my heart beating in the bottom of my throat. Oh my god. Yeah, it was not good. But I'll tell you what, I I didn't, I did I nailed every cut. I bet you did.

SPEAKER_02 51:32

That was that was way more of a peek behind the curtain than I thought we were gonna get there, but I I'm not against it. I'm just saying it's way more than I thought we were gonna get.

SPEAKER_03 51:40

Yeah, I didn't get the luxury of having being relieved. And to be honest, I don't know if I would have wanted that because you want to know everything that happened in every game with every team. You want to know who the studs are on like the lesser teams that you may see, you know, you're gonna see maybe in your quarterfinal uh games. And uh sitting sitting on the sidelines watching, I was never a fan of, and still to this day I'm never a fan of. But uh yeah, but I it is great. It's a great opportunity uh to give some younger junior people production reps uh on the front bench in a big in a big tournament and a big show with lots of resources. So well done. Kudos to TSN for that. Um that'll definitely help them with their next crop of uh producers and directors.

SPEAKER_02 52:26

Would you have gone and sat inside the rink for that game off? Or you would have gone set, you would have you would have said you're going into the rank, then you would have gone and sat back and taped, right?

SPEAKER_03 52:35

Uh yeah, no chance. I would have gone to the media room to get a coffee, and if I could get some food or a hot dog or whatever, and then I'd probably go stand in the booth and I'd harass the commentator calling the game, and they would probably say, Why don't you just get back down in the truck and do this, okay? That does sound about right. So that'll do it for episode 53. Remember, if you haven't already done so, hit the subscribe button wherever you get your favorite podcast. Don't forget to follow inside the truck on x, inside the truck podcast on Instagram and thread, and inside the truck TV on YouTube. Wherever you are on social media, we'll be right there waiting for you.

SPEAKER_02 53:13

If you know someone who might like this episode of Inside the Truck, please let them know. And there are 52 more episodes just like this one. So have a list of them. I'm Steve Lansky, he's called him. That's it for today. You keep listening in oh, special to three places. Sydney, New South Wales. Wow, that's a long way away. I've been there. Abilene, Texas, haven't been there. Yorkton, Saskatchewan, I've been there. Are the Yorkton Terriers still around, Paul? Well, I hope so. Third Dynasty and it's where our good friend Chris Cutford got into start. Correct. Hello to everyone watching the Yorkton Terriers. You keep listening, and we'll keep bringing you inside the truck.