133. Stacy Cluff; Utility Technology Leader

After almost a year away, Ordinarily Extraordinary: Conversations with Women in STEM is back — and we’re relaunching with something new: a co-host!

In this episode, Kathy is joined by her longtime friend and new co-host, Linda LaTourelle, to talk with Stacy Cluff, IT and Broadband Manager at Mille Lacs Energy Cooperative. Stacy has worked at Mille Lacs for 28 years, wearing many hats in technology, IT, and now leading the co-op’s broadband program — bringing critical fiber broadband service to rural Minnesota communities.

What We Talk About

• Why Kathy took a break from the podcast and what’s new in the relaunch
• Linda’s background in utility technology and excitement for co-hosting
• Stacy’s career journey from paralegal studies to becoming a leader in IT and broadband
• What it’s like to manage fiber projects, grant funding, and IT at a small electric co-op
• Balancing career, education, and raising a family — and advice for women considering going back to school
• The importance of broadband in rural areas and the impact it has on communities
• The challenges of stepping out of your comfort zone to speak up, network, and lead
• Reflections on empty nesting, staying busy, and what’s next (including Stacy’s exciting news about becoming a grandma!)

New Segment: Ask (Not) an Expert

As part of the relaunch, we’re introducing a new advice section where listeners can send in questions. In this episode, Kathy, Linda, and Stacy weigh in on:

• How to handle being excluded from after-work socializing with male colleagues
• Deciding when to go back to school vs. starting a family, and how to manage both

Rapid Fire with Stacy

• Favorite STEM inspirations
• One word to describe her career journey
• The most unexpected skills she’s had to learn on the job

About Our Guest

Stacy Cluff is the IT and Broadband Manager at Mille Lacs Energy Cooperative. She manages the cooperative’s broadband deployment, including grant funding, contractors, and customer engagement, while also overseeing IT operations. Stacy is passionate about bringing affordable, reliable internet to rural communities and supporting her co-op’s mission to serve its members.

Want to ask a question for our new advice segment?

• Leave us a voicemail through our website www.ordinarily-extraordinary.com
• Or email: ordinarilyextraordinarypod@gmail.com

Music by Kay Paulus

 Follow Kay on Instagram @kaypaulus8 

Transcript

133. Stacy Cluff

[00:00:00]

Kathy: Hi, and welcome back to ordinarily Extraordinary Conversations with Women in stem. In case you haven't noticed. We have not been around for almost a year. And I wanted to talk about that, about why I've been gone. but I'm also really excited because I get to have a co-host as we relaunch. I'm really excited about that.

But one of the reasons that I wanna take a break from the podcast is one of the things that came up as I had been having conversations with women over the last, the four and a half years of doing the podcast, was the importance of normalizing womenin stem. So I have spent some time starting to write manuscripts for children's books to inspire girls to go into stem or think about stem, or be curious about stem.

[00:01:00] And so I wanted to have some time to focus on that. So that's what I've been doing and I am really excited to be back and to have. Guest on and to have a co-host. I do want to introduce Linda LaTourelle.

She was a guest on my podcast way back in the beginning. I've known her for many years and, we've spent most of our careers in the electric cooperative space, which is how I met her.

Um, and while I came from the engineering side of stem, linda comes from the technology side of stem, and I'm really excited and happy to have her on the podcast with me. and linda, do you wanna introduce yourself and tell folks a little bit about yourself?

Linda: Sure. Thanks so much for inviting me to join you, Kathy, on this podcast. It's, um, pretty exciting. I am, uh, looking forward to connecting with other women in STEM

and uh, have a passion for technology. One of the reasons I'm here, of course, there's many reasons if we pick that apart and

I'm sure over time we can.

Um, like you said, I've been in the [00:02:00] technology utility technology industry for over 30 years and that's when we first met years ago. And, just en enjoy working in that space and really enjoy the people that I've met in that space. I retired a few years ago and now I miss those people, so I am very excited to get going and talking to some of them.

Um, if you're listening, uh, you might get a call for me or an invitation to collaborate. That's how we started talking to Stacy here today too. We go way back with Stacy, both of us, and I'm really excited to have you on the podcast today, Stacy, and talk about some things we probably never got a chance to talk about over the years because you just don't think of these questions.

You kind of talk about things in passing, but, uh, we won't grill you too hard. We're just really interested in how you got here and and what some of your challenges. Have been and any stories you want to share with our audience.

Kathy: I'm excited to [00:03:00] introduce our guest. Stacy Cluff is the IT and Broadband Manager at

Mille Lacs Energy Cooperative. She's held various functions in technology at Mille Lacs for 28 years, and she now runs Mille Lac’s IT and Broadband program, which we'll talk a little bit about during the podcast because she's doing really important work bringing broadband servicesto rural areas of Minnesota that don't have access, and it's another area that I'm also passionate about.

So I am. We'll probably talk a little bit about that. We don't talk like too much about like worky work stuff on the podcast, but I'll probably ask you a little bit about that.

Stacy has a bachelor's of Science degree in business management and leadership, and we'll talk about how she got started down her path in STEM.

So welcome to the podcast, Stacy.

Stacy: Thank you, Glad to be here. 

Kathy: So I wanna start with, tell us a little bit about what you do for a job currently.

Stacy: So most of my job is really fiber. I'm, I manage our daily products. I'm writing our [00:04:00] grants. Um, we're very. Heavily dependent on grant funding. So that is a majority of my job, um, researching what's available for grant funding figuring out what project area is qualify for funding. And then once we are funded then I, it's just dealing with contractors, um, from anywhere from the engineering, the construction installation, and just daily. Who's doing what and how that all happens. And then also I oversee how making sure you know the customers are contacted. So working with our marketing and. I just kind of do, I do a little bit of everything.

That's my daily routine. Um, I also then I guess I more oversee our, it, we, uh, have a. A managed IT provider now at the co-op. So I don't have to do so much to the daily things, but I have to know, look, when are we upgrading servers, when are we upgrading our phones and keeping, um, just the daily things running and then working with that managed provider to help [00:05:00] us you know, with everything that goes wrong in creating tickets for everybody.

So, my job consists of a lot. And I'm pulled away a lot, and so I was kind circling back around to things and it's busy, but it's different every day, so I like that. 

Kathy: Well, and for folks who don't know about, um, electric co-op space, and especially small electric co-ops, so you're at a small electric co-op. So just like give people an example of like, like how many people are there at your company?

Stacy: Um, I think we're currently at 48 and that includes, you know, half the workforce probably is linemen and outside sort, you know, people that are tree trimming and whatnot. Yeah. 

Kathy: Yeah. And one of the things that that we, that I've always heard talked about, especially at like smaller cooperatives, is you wear a lot of different hats. So you're probably doing like a bunch of different things and troubleshooting a bunch of different things and getting called to different things because there's just not necessarily that many people.

To do that, right? So you have to [00:06:00] wear different hats.

Stacy: That's correct. Uh, yeah, so that's where my IT and Fiber and my title. So it just encompasses it all. So, um, and, and also as a manager here, we're also then part of the management team, so I. You kinda get thrown into other things too. Making decisions and strategic planning about the electric and what we need for that.

And substations, communications. I mean, it just, it keeps, it goes on and on I think. And other duties that is assigned is a huge thing in my job description. 

Kathy: I. always hated that part of the job description. It kind of means that you, like you have to do anything that someone asks you to do, which who knows what that might be. So you started out with a degree in criminal justice and then a degree as a paralegal. How did you end up going down the path of getting into technology at the electric co-op space?

So like, tell us a little bit about, about that journey. 'cause it sounds really interesting.

Stacy: Yeah, it's, it's [00:07:00] 'cause I got married and came back to Aiken and um, as a para had my paralegal degree. I actually never, um, used it professionally. But I think it also helped me, um, learned things better. Just the research aspect of it. When Google came along, I was really good at it. Doing that. And That's, kind of what led me into when I was first came to lacs I was kind of good with computers and then there wasn't many of those at the time, but they said here Take these and set 'em up. And so I just kind of figured it out. And then we started our dial up business probably about two to three months after I started and, they said, okay, you seem kind of good with this stuff here. Figure that out too while you're at it. And that's how I grew into my role.

And and Google, I always say it's my best friend because that's how I taught myself. A lot and, um, you know, classes over time too, and then it's just figuring things out. So reaching out to people and yeah, that's [00:08:00] kind of what grew into my role really. 

Linda: I'm thinking that that experience in paralegal, and I don't know if you did some contract work or studied how to do contracts, but I think one of the most surprising things to me in the technology field, and especially when you get into, you get pulled into management decisions on a lot of things, but the number of contracts I ran across was.

Astounding and especially in today's world, and you talk about your bead work and all of the contract work that you do I was always admired you, Stacy for your ability with contracts. Is, has that been helpful?

Stacy: I, you know, I guess I never thought about that, but it probably was because of maybe the classes and the researching and the writing and what we did in for that paralegal degree. But I guess, you know, you just kind of do it and just kind of figured it out and maybe I did have that little bit of help with that and you just, yeah.

You don't think about it. Yeah. 

Kathy: I, could actually maybe use that background now because [00:09:00] I have to review a lot of contracts. I don't have a legal department. I don't have an IT department. I do actually, those are probably two of the big things that I have to do that I've like, like as a sole business owner, they're really hard. I like, I really miss those departments in my companies that I used to work at.

So yeah, I think that's a, that would be a great skill or knowledge or background to have. Um, when did you decide to go back to school and what made you decide to go down that path? And I know you, like, you've got two kids. Did you have kids at the time you went back to school or how was like, how did all that come about?

Stacy: Oh boy. Yes. I had two kids and they were eight and 11 at the time, and I'd always wanted to and, and I'm gonna give credit to Linda because I know at the time she was just finishing up, I believe. Her degree. Going back, I don't know, if you got your Master's or bachelor's, I'm not sure what you were doing, but I know talking to you and saying, well, hey, there's this online one before online was cool like it is [00:10:00] today. And so I looked into it and I just did, it I came home one day and told my husband, I'm, I'm going back to school. I signed up already. And so yeah, we had two kids. Very active in sports. All three sports all year round. I was also at that time, running half marathons. I don't know when I found time to do any of it, but somehow I managed it and I took like classes just one a semester for over and it took me five years to finish it, even though I had two years of credits already. and it just, it's something I wanted to, um, doI felt it helped me in my career here at Mille Lacs. Just having that bachelor's and just the experience of the classes that I had and dealing with management and dealing with people, it um, just broadened my skills a little bit more. yeah. 

Linda: Yeah, I found the same thing. I can picture you going to sports for your, for your kids, and sitting, sitting in the bleachers doing homework or reading a book. Thing I remember those days, but [00:11:00] finishing it was pretty satisfying. I'm so happy that you did that.

Stacy: Thanks. 

Kathy: And okay, So I, I did not go back. Well, no, I've never gone back to school after I had kids. I try, I started working on like a master's in electrical engineering before I had kids, and, then I thought about doing an MBA.

It's hard.

Maybe just let me say that it's hard. And I have so much respect for people who

go back to school with having kids. 'cause like you said, trying to juggle all of

that. And I'm gonna go with, used to be a runner too,and so I don't know.

I don't know how, like how, did you find time to do that? All like that?

Just that it just, sounds, it sounds exhausting and it is exhausting, and yet I I also know that that's something that like a lot of people do, a lot of women do. Did you have any, like, good, like, do you have any like, advice for women thinking about that and like any, any advice on how to like, cope with that and how to get through it and?

Stacy: Well, I had a really supportive husband And  that [00:12:00] was truly helpful. And um, so he cooks, he cleans, he takes, took care of the kids and, you know, I'd plan my mornings, I'd get up early, go for a run, come back and do homework. This is weekends, and do homework for like four or five hours, you know, writing papers.

There was a lot of writing papers and research. And he would, you know, do the things with the kids. He was also a coach, so then he would take the kids, to practice. So that helped. And then he never missed a game though. So I always, you know, just as Linda said, was doing my reading potentially between innings at the baseball games or at the court, wherever they were.

And it's just make sure you have that support too. We also had like parents around, so I had grandparents that helped watch the kids as needed too. and it's just managing your time. You really have to have like, okay, today I'm, I'm studying for two hours after work. and then, then it's free time, and then it's just are the, after the kids go to bed, then I'll have two more hours of reading tonight.

[00:13:00] And I just remember that I had to. have, each day was like pretty scheduled. And now, now nowadays, I when I get home from work, I'm like. Huh? What am I doing? I don't even know. So it's like how I did it back then. It just, we figured it out and it works. And, and as you get older and you don't have all those responsibilities, it's, it's kind of funny, like, how did I do that? Yeah.

Kathy: Do you kind of miss that? Like, I mean, so like, I know we talked about this and all, all three of us have empty nested. I kind of have one that's still at home, but do you ki I kind of miss the chaos of little kids and running kids everywhere and being busy. Do you miss, do you miss that at all?

Stacy: I think so but then I, 'cause I'm also bored sometimes at night, you know, I wander around the house, what can I, what project can I start? I've done a lot of home projects because I have, I need to be busy, so I, I do, I do miss the busyness. Yeah. 

Kathy: about you, Linda? Like, I mean, you're like a few years older, you've got grandkids now. How is it [00:14:00] for you, like empty nesting and then like moving into like Grand Parenthood? 

Linda: Yeah, it, it, uh, it sure is a change  and, uh, work. Work was there for a while. Full-time work was there for a while, so I kept bus busy with that. And there was a little bit of travel, so you know how that goes. You can't join leagues or. It's hard to make golf when you're traveling like that.

So I think for the downtime for me, I got into more hobbies, but I am definitely a person that needs to stay busy. So I will find things to do just to keep me busy and probably connected with the industry too, even though I'm, I'm retired. I do miss that chaos, but for me, it's been so long now, and now that I'm a grandma, I know I can get that chaos anytime I want, just down the street.

I'm just, I'm pretty blessed with that. So, um, every once in a while I do feel that emptiness, like you do Stacy, the emptiness of the home, and I think, oh, I should have the grandkids over and love, love [00:15:00] when they're here and I can get some of that.

Stacy: Nice. 

Kathy: Yeah, I think, I never thought about like the things that I do as like filling in that space, but I'm also thinking like, now that we're talking about that, like maybe like my empty nesting was I started podcast, I started writing, I started a business. I'm like, maybe that's my filling up my plate without necessarily like realizing it.

I don't 

Linda: You think?

Stacy: Sounds like a lot to me. 

Linda: You, think.

Kathy: Yeah, for sure. Stacy, I do wanna talk a little bit about, because the work that you do, I think is so important. And I don't know like how many people like realize how important it is. Like we're all using broadband services right now to do this call and this recording where this is all done remotely.

I moved to a small town or small, like rural area, probably about, uh, probably like 17 years ago. 90% of the houses didn't have broadband services. I couldn't like even put an offer on them. 'cause I needed to [00:16:00] have, I was working remotely at the time. I have been basically ever since then. Does the work that you do, like, do you realize how important it is? Do other people realize how important it is? Like how much it, it matters to the community? What is your perspective on that and like, do you ever like, think about it from like, the big picture of like. The changes that are being made in like your community. And I I also wanna talk about the community that you're in is like, it's one of the, it's one of the poorest areas of Minnesota.

And there are not nec, there's a lot of areas that don't have broadband services of any sort whatsoever. How do you feel from just like the, the. I guess the vastness and the importance of like, the work that you're doing, or do you, like, I I also, you do the day to day stuff, so I'm just curious if you, like, ever think about like how important that is. 

Stacy: No. I think about how important it's every day. I mean, I've [00:17:00] had people, you know, call in and just how it changed their lives and it's life changing when they finally get broadband. It's kind of almost like, you know, back with the electric back in the day. And, you know, it's very comparable. And I, it is a passion of mine and I, I'm finally getting broadband at my house this year. I can't wait. You know, we're finally have a project there, so just, 

Kathy: you putting fiber to your house? 'cause I still don't have fiber. I'll probably never have fiber 'cause I'm on a peninsula. So, but are you, are you getting fiber. 

Stacy: we are getting fiber, so Mille Lacs fiber. Yep. Yeah, but I mean, it's just, yeah, there's just so much good it's bringing, I know that. We've been trying to track, you know, we've, it's not been quite 10 years that we've been offering it and just seeing how it works with our economy. If it's helping bring more people here and because yes, like you said, we are one of the poorest and that's another thing I try to work with is keeping our, our prices affordable and I think we are, compared to all of our competitors, [00:18:00] we've got. Prices that people can afford to pay for that monthly service and still get amazing connections. So it's, it's super important for this area. It'll be interesting in another like 10 years, has the economy changed where more people are working from home and moving up to their cabins full-time?

'cause we do have, we've seen some of that, but how much more will we see of that? And that means if more people around here, more people are spending money in our stores and everything. 

Kathy: you know, actually that's one interesting thing about the three of us. We're all in like really like pretty rural  areas of Minnesota. all three of us are 

Linda also,

Linda: Yes.

Kathy: Okay.

What has been your greatest success in your career so far? 

Stacy: I mean, I have to go back to the fiber. It's just that's, I, we kind of pushed for that and how we started into it, we just kind of dove in and I wasn't sure if it would, nobody knew if it would be successful. And we [00:19:00] actually we're in the black after eight years, so, um, last year. So when we first did it, we thought it was a 20 year. 20 years before we would get in there. So it's, I just feel that's probably been my, as for career wise. Yeah.

Linda: What's been your greatest challenge? So far.

Stacy: I guess for me, I'm more reserved and it was hard for me to talk in front of people for a long time in front of groups. And I guess I was more shy and, just coming outta my shell and even, um, introducing myself to new people at meetings and just, and that has been my biggest challenge.

Um, and talking out loud and talking about things in front of people just even asking a question, I was, like, oh, all shaky and scared. and, so, that has been my challenge personally. It just, and just learning how to do that. But I think, um, I don't know, you just figure it out.

You have to talk and you have to speak and to move ahead and that is just something I've, grown with too, I.

Kathy: Let me, let me ask about that [00:20:00] because I think that that, I mean, that's a challenge that I think a lot of people who are in stem, like a lot of us are introverts, right? Like I think it's hard, like, and I like. I have a really big challenge with that as well. I feel like I kind of got over it maybe when I was like 35.

I like to say I found my voice and then I like never stopped talking after that. But I think like was there anything that you purposefully did to try to get over that or get through it? Do you still need, like, are you still like, I like to say that I'm kind of like a recovering introvert. Like I can talk to people, but I, will get exhausted. Like if I'm at a conference like the year that I chaired UTC, I don't, like, I had to do two conferences, two weeks in a row, and I was so exhausted after those two weeks because of like all the, social interaction and there was like, not really downtime, but is there anything that you did to kind of like, help yourself with that. 

Stacy: I, just had to realize that like no question is [00:21:00] a dumb question type thing, you know? And just. Put myself out there and, and if I had a answer for something, just answer it, even if it might've been wrong and be okay with that. And it's, just, it's really just pushing myself harder. Um, I don't know.

And just, and maybe at some of these events too, when I would go by myself, I would, if I wanted to just sit in my room all the time and be lonely, I could do that. But no, I, I had to go out there and meet people and, and talk about things one of, one of my friends, well, and actually you guys would probably know

Kathy: her she used to be the vice President of HR at Great River. She's a good friend of mine. I've, I've ran many of my marathons with her. And it would be interesting when I would talk to her, 'cause I remember, like I said something about, oh my gosh, I have to go to this conference and I have to like, go talk to people that I don't know, and the what she said to me was  she's like, oh, well when I go to a conference, she's like, I think about it as, oh, I, there's all these people that I get to meet and I get to like talk to all these people. I don't know. And it totally changed how I viewed.

[00:22:00] Um, conferences and meeting new people because to start viewing it as like an opportunity as opposed to like, oh my gosh, this like chore that I have to do that's gonna like exhaust me and like that I don't want to do. But I thought her perspective was so interesting. And like for me that was very much like an aha moment of there's like a way that of reframing it that I thought was really interesting. 

Stacy: I like that. I like that attitude. Going in with that, I'll have to remember that, we always need good reminders of things.

Kathy: Yeah, she's very much like in, in a lot of ways, my, I don't dunno wanna say by like my alter ego, but like an alter ego, at least in some aspects. She always had like really good advice for me that were like, things that I wouldn't necessarily think of. And she came from a very different place than, than what I did, like career-wise.

Linda: I'm probably a lot like her. I, I, I look forward to who I'm gonna see and who I get to talk to and who I'm gonna meet at a conference. And then I also get exhausted at the end, Kathy, 'cause I [00:23:00] talk to so many people. 

I think it helps though over the years when you get to know people a little bit more, I think in the beginning when you go to places you don't know what other people knew or if your information was gonna help them or not.

Or was it repetitive? I I the fear of being repetitive, I, I didn't like that either. and then once you got to know people and kind of what they were looking for, I thought, oh, I can help with that. And I think that helped me and just the more experience and the more people that I knew. It was really helpful. 

Kathy: Now most of the conferences I go to, I've, you know, they're people that I've known for 15, 20, 30 years. Like, it's usually like, it feels like going to a family reunion. But I think, you know, when you're young, and I think like this, I think is, it's hard when, especially when you're by yourself and you're, you know, most of us are going conferences where we are one of very few women.

It's hard, like, it, like you feel, it can feel very lonely. It can feel very intimidating. You [00:24:00] don't necessarily know what to ask. You don't necessarily know who to talk to. and I know, I, I'm very involved in a trade association that has a conference in a large conference and you know, we talk about trying to pair people, more experienced people with newcomers so that they can feel welcome and trying to like help.

Just navigate how to like get through that. But I think, you know, to your point, Stacy, like it can be, it can be really hard and like really intimidating and it's not very much fun. I mean, sometimes it's nice to sit in your room and watch Netflix, but if everybody else is going out and like you have like, well, I wanna go out, you know, like, I think that can be I don't know, like, I, I think that it can feel

lonely if, if you aren't outgoing and. Or you can be even outgoing and maybe people like they have like the cl it feels cliquey. Don't, don't you think like conferences feel a little bit cliquey when you go, you know, everyone has their people and like, how do you, do you like invite yourself to like tag along when people [00:25:00] are out, going out to dinner, to the bars? Maybe. I don't know. So what's next for you? 

Stacy: well I am, my plan is to hopefully retire in five years. I. That's, I just, I don't wanna work forever, I might be bored, I'm hoping to maybe do maybe part-time here or maybe something else. But I do, um, have a son and a grand baby coming that are down in Florida. 

Linda: Congratulations. 

Stacy: it was, it's a it's a new development I would love to be able to spend more time down there, So we'll see where, if he stays down there with, if, you know, if they do, and I'll be going down there a lot, so potentially, you know, maybe retirement a little earlier and then just completely retired. Maybe I'll be a babysitting grandma in Florida. I don't know. 

Kathy: sounds like a really nice place to babysit, especially in January.

Maybe they could, will they make you a grandma apartment or something so that you can, so that you could just like move in for like the winter [00:26:00] months.

Stacy: hopefully they're just getting their feet on the ground and getting started. So, uh, maybe in a couple years they'll have that little mother-in-law suite, whatever grandma suite they need to. 

Linda: I can just float into.

Stacy: Yeah. 

Kathy: Oh, that sounds lovely. It's so exciting. 

Stacy: Yeah. 

Linda: Yeah. 

Kathy: That's really, really cool. 

Linda: I have a couple questions and I don't know if I should put them together or not, but I'm going to, so, you know, I wanted to know, you've talked a little bit about how your career has evolved and I'm just gonna put a little background story in there. I, I had met with you, Stacy, and you gave me a tour of your office, which I absolutely loved, and I come away thinking, came away from that meeting with you, thinking so many things that you had done over the years and how you had progressed.

Um, one of the things that sticks out is how you, you used the IT responsibility used to fall solely on your shoulders and how you've done some contracting with that work and um, made some really smart decisions on how to keep that going forward and what's most efficient for the co-op. And as so you can evolve [00:27:00] more in the fiber.

So my question is, how has your job evolved over all the years and what are you most thankful for? And I dunno if they go to together or not. You could probably, you could probably answer them separate if you want to. 

Stacy: We'll go with the evolved over the years. That one first back when I, started in 1997, seems like forever ago I was hired as an engineering aid. And so I worked, I guess in what you would call in more of the operations world today. And then, our IT stuff happened and then dial up happened and the internet happened and this and that, and then, so it's just, it did, it moved fairly fast away from that engineering world, but I was still always um, there with it, with our engineering manager, with John Pearson back in the day. he was the one that kinda gave all this work to me and he. Thought I could do it. so at the time I didn't appreciate it, but today I do. And so, and he brought, met, introduced me to you Kathy, and brought [00:28:00] me to all those meetings at GRE that I had no idea what anybody was talking about.

And, but I sat there and, and listened and, and took in a few things over time and, and, you know, and that's, it's just, you know, I think about it and it helped me. I, didn't appreciate it as much as I do today. How it helped me evolve into. What I know today and how I think back and how I apply it all today.

And was that a strategic decision when you outsourced IT Was that like, you know, our plates get so full over the years because we do so many things at small co-ops and um, was that a strategic decision that you made? 

It was something that it kind of came up at the right time. So we were struggling because I was getting so much put up with the fiber business on me, and I would, I just couldn't. Keep up with the, IT changes. They're just it's so constant and, and, um, the time that you need to understand and learn everything.

It just, they had reached out to us and offered the service and [00:29:00] I looked at it and I'm like, well, it's cheaper than hiring somebody. We're way cheaper than hiring like another IT person and without wages and all that stuff. And then plus we get on top of all of our security and everything else, which is so important nowadays.

So it's, it just, yeah, it just really made sense. Um, we've been doing it now for like, I think three, four years and it's been one of the best decisions I think we've made. Yeah. And so timing was just, just good. Yeah. 

Linda: I hadn't known about that extensive services in your area, and I think that was just really a good strategic decision and enabling you to focus on your passion for 

Stacy: Yeah. 

Linda: and people in the community. 

Stacy: Yeah. No, for sure. that was a really good choice. Yeah. Yeah.

Linda: you said you're grateful for John Pearson and I remember those days I worked, I worked with John too. 

And I loved when John would push us to do something outside of our comfort zone. He was always an idea person and he made it sound [00:30:00] attractive and fun and and maddening at the same time. Like you, you look back and think. 

Yeah, that was pretty good, John. But is there anyone else that you're thankful for or that helped you along the way? Oh. 

Stacy: Well, I looked up a lot to you, Linda. Um, I really did because as one of the few people in it back then, and you were one of the few women in it, in our circle that we probably were in, and, and you were just always a friendly face. I could always call you and ask for your advice or see you at meetings and talk to you, and you just, I don't know, you just made me feel more comfortable, I 

Linda: Okay. Don't make me cry. 

Stacy: And I miss you.

Linda: Oh, I miss you too. No, I'm so happy to hear that you don't realize the impact that you have on other people. You know, and I'm just, it's really makes me happy. 

Stacy: Yeah. 

Linda: Love, love that.

Stacy: We have a couple new things that we want to do on the podcast since we're relaunching. So one of the things is we are adding an advice section.

Kathy: So we've been toying with what to call it. We're [00:31:00] thinking ask and I'm using air quotes, not expert or I'm not really sure, maybe like asking for a friend or something like that. Anyway so if you would like to call in or email us looking for advice. On our newly launched website, you can actually call in with a question. So you can actually leave us a voicemail, so that's pretty cool. Or you can email us at ordinarilyextraordinarypod@gmail.com with your questions. So, we'll only use first names on the air, or if you prefer to be anonymous, let us know that too. So we have a couple questions, and I did not give these to Stacy ahead of time, but I thought it might be fun to have, like our guests also answer this with us. So our first question comes from Amy. Amy writes, and this actually kindarelates to what we were talking about. I recently went on a work trip with my male boss and some of my male colleagues.I was the only female. They all went to out to the bar after dinner and did not invite me. I'm not so upset about not being invited to go out to the [00:32:00] bar, but I will, but I worry that I'll not have the same opportunities for advancement if my colleagues are hanging out with my boss and I'm not. And also what's with not being invited. All right. Thoughts.

Linda: That's a tough one.

Stacy: I'm gonna say just 'cause I, I feel like I've been in some situations, not so boss, but like, say groups and you almost have to invite yourself. Say, Hey, what are you doing? Can I, do you mind if I. Come with type? Yeah. 

Kathy: it sounds to me like she didn't know till after the fact.

Stacy: Okay. 

Kathy: Because I would agree with you on the inviting inviting yourself. I do think that sometimes you have to do that because, and not even necessarily that your colleagues or boss might not want you to come. I think that in some cases, some people are still like trying to figure out which this sounds like really dumb. 'cause I feel like we should have evolved in like the 30 years since we all started. What to [00:33:00] do with women when they're like all going out together and like. So maybe it's not intentional. Maybe it is intentional. I don't know. So I do think like the inviting yourself, I think that's good advice. But do you think that you say something like, if like after the fact, what would, I don't, what do you guys think?

Linda: I think I would say something, I'm not sure what yet, but I would find a moment to say something and um, you know, maybe it's just words of suggestion like, I would love to join you on a, you know, if you do anything after, after work, if you're wondering, I know, you know, I know I'm probably the only female here, but heck, I was raised with four brothers. I could handle it, you know and I don't even know if you need to be that direct, because then you're assuming that they made the decision. You know, they're probably just not thinking of it. And maybe it's just something casual like, hey you know, if you're going out again, I'd love to join you. But I I think I'd say something. 

Stacy: [00:34:00] I agree with that. I would, everything you said, I would definitely say something too, just so the next time that they know the fear in that situation. That you at least throw an invite out there and you may or may not wanna go. 

Yeah. 

Kathy: Okay, so another question. This will time from Jenna. Jenna writes, I have been thinking about going back to school to get an MBA. I also want to start a family. How do I know when to go back to school and how do I juggle and, prioritize school versus family? Which also seems like something we talked about.

Stacy: I can jump in on that one since I kind of talked about. It. Just make sure you just have a schedule give yourself the time, give yourself grace for not doing everything also. But scheduling your probably almost every hour of your day is super important.

And then just knowing that. You know, you might fail at some things, but it's okay. You're, you've got a lot going on and [00:35:00] some classes are gonna be hard and you're gonna, maybe not gonna do as good as you'd hoped, but, and then you might have to miss some kids' events too. But it's, it's worth it in the long run. 

Yeah. Yeah. 

Linda: And something you had um said earlier. Stacy, I wanted to echo 'cause I could really relate when you said you had that support structure and your husband was really helpful with some of the things that you couldn't get done. And I remember my husband being very helpful for the time I was going to school. And he, it got to the point when you talk about the schedule, he got to the point where he knew that I needed to be on discussion group on Wednesday night. And, um, you know, it got part of our lives and say, well, we're gonna do this that night, and I know you got discussion group on Wednesday, and, you know, it got to be just, we fell into that rhythm of, of doing that. So I guess my advice would be just do it. You know, talk about the support structure, but if you know, worried about the time it takes, it does fall into place if you've got that structure there. 

Kathy: What about, so it sounds like she is like [00:36:00] thinking about starting a family. So doesn't have kids yet. So And I, like I said, I have, I did not go back to school. I went to school. went to work, had my kids, tried to go back to school. It was hard. Well, to be fair, there was not online school at the time. I was like, honestly, like driving to the u from Elk River. And then I had to make up my time and there was only like the 50. Anyway, it was, it just didn't work well. But 

Linda: very

Kathy: a standpoint of do you think that, like, do you have the babies first? Do you start the family then go to school and kind of like do both, do you go to school, do you put off the, having the kids? Like, what do you guys, what do you guys think from that standpoint? If you're trying to decide like what to do first, 

Stacy: I mean, babies. 

Kathy: if you have, the capability of like all of those things falling into place on your schedule. 

Stacy: I, mean, it's, a little different with the baby too. They're a lot more time consuming and you really hate to miss out on baby things. I, that's a tough one. I don't, you know, my kids were older when I went, [00:37:00] so.

I mean, if you have, if you're able to do it all and work and go to school and raise a baby, go for it. If you have like a husband that will be there for you, or a significant other, will be there for you. You know that to take? I don't know. That's tough. 

Linda: Yeah, that is tough. Babies, you know, babies are in demand and it's a stressful time, especially for your first baby. I don't know. I I did try to go back to school. I, took a couple of, uh, math classes. we talked about our love for math. So what do I do? You know, my technology brain. Let's see. I wanna go to school. I wanna try it. I think I'll pick math 'cause I love math the most. So I did take a math class and I remember, I hope my son doesn't listen to this. 'cause I remember when he was little and he said, mama, don't do homework anymore. 

So those, those are the things that tug at you when they're little. [00:38:00] And it is hard. I will say from that experience it was a lot easier when they were in sports and kind of doing their own thing and driving themselves. But that's a long time to wait. So what do you 

Kathy: Or do you start back to school and then get the degree And then start the family? 

Stacy: Yeah. Yeah. 

Linda: I guess it depends on your priorities,

Kathy: yeah.

Linda: 'Cause I don't know. Family is, family's everything to us, so I don't know. 

Kathy: Yeah. And I also think, like Linda, to what you said about like the, they pull out your heartstrings. I don't know that gets easier, like when my kids would complain about me not being there for certain things and mine wasn't school, mine was travel. Like I started traveling quite a bit for work. It would still pull on my heartstrings.Like I, that whole mom guilt thing, just, 

Linda: That's hard.

Kathy: It's a thing for sure.

Stacy: It is. 

Kathy: Yeah.I don't think we, any of us have solutions for mom guilt. 

Stacy: No. 

Linda: That's a whole other podcast.

Stacy: Yes. 

Yeah. 

Kathy: for sure. [00:39:00] Okay. All right. So, rapid fire questions. So, Stacy, these are for you. All right? 

Stacy: Favorite STEM book or movie? Oh my gosh. Okay. I'm not good with

this. 

Kathy: Okay. We, we'll circle 

Stacy: I wasn't, I was gonna do homework and I didn't. 

Linda: You're over that.

Kathy: okay. That's okay. And I mean, to be fair, Finding STEM heroes and STEM books and STEM movies is hard, which is like one of the reasons that I wanted to like start writing them is 'cause 

Stacy: There isn't many. 

Kathy: when it doesn't have to be women in stem, it doesn't have to be women in stem. It could just be like.

Linda: So Kathy, can you know I'm getting stumped like Stacey is. So what STEM movie comes to your mind? You've been in this a long

Kathy: Well, okay. So like, I would say a couple things and they're gonna be very, like drastically different. Okay. So Hidden Figures. I love that movie. Like, that I think is, it's just super inspirational movie and, and I think it's based on a book and it's a true story. Um, the other one, Dilbert cartoons, which do you [00:40:00] guys remember the cartoons?

Stacy: Yeah. 

Linda: Didn't they take those out of the paper?

Kathy: Oh, I think so. Like there's, I think there's a whole, there was a whole like situation with the, with the guy who like wrote them or something. I don't totally remember, like exactly, but I think, I think I had totally forgotten about that. But those, but okay, so, but you could also think is it CSI that Sully was in, like the Sully effect has like um, And, I can't think of her, I can't think of her first name, but apparent, like there have been like a lot of women. Maybe some women, we won't go with a lot of women. But there's like an actual like effect from like women watching like CSI of going into going into STEM careers because of it. So those are some, um, lessons in chemistry. Have you guys heard about that book? So that book and then it became like a little like mini series that came out recently. So there, there are some. more like, there's becoming like more things. Okay. Hard questions. All right. We'll see if this gets any easier.

Stacy: I hope. 

Kathy: what's [00:41:00] a skill that you use in your job that no one warned you that you would need?

Stacy: I don't think anybody warned me about anything. So everything, um, um, I'm trying to think here off the top of my head, like something that I do, I probably, I mean understanding like routers in Cisco and firewalls and. All that stuff. It's like I didn't know I was gonna need? To do it because I, as I said, grew into my job.

I find that the hardest thing ever in understanding that stuff and making firewalls work and talk to each other. 'cause I do manage our like, substation firewalls and, and, um, I don't know, I just find it hard and I always have to like retrain myself, okay, this is doing this, this is talking to this, and you have to, this port goes that and it's, yeah. So things like that probably. For me, just because I have such a weird transition into the my world. 

Yeah. 

Kathy: I'm in telecom and somehow we get grouped into IT in a lot of [00:42:00] companies and I think network. I think that. stuff is, hard too. 

Kathy: that's not stuff that I, grew up knowing. I didn't grow up, but I studied substations and transformers and. Equipment like that, and then went into the wireless world, and, but networking and wireless ends up becoming merged together. So I'm with you on that. 

Stacy: Okay. 

Kathy: All right. Coffee, tea, or a different drink when you're working, what's your beverage of choice? 

Stacy: Coffee in the morning and then just water all day. 

Kathy: Okay. All right. What one word describes your career journey so far? 

Stacy: Change, I guess just constant change. Yeah. 

Kathy: Okay. All right. Do you wanna circle back to any of the Stem Hero or favorite STEM book or 

Stacy: I'm gonna say when I get thought about that as a, as a hero, and I don't know if it's a hero, but just some, another person I'd probably admire a lot is, uh, Kristie Westbrock with CTC, and she's [00:43:00] their CEO and she's the, that's a company we partner with for our fiber, and she's just out there with ideas and she's very, um, outspoken. She goes to Washington and all this other, she's just in all sorts of committees and yeah, she's just someone I kind, when we first met them and started our partnership, I was just kind of just in awe of her, 'cause all the ideas and think she, you like, she's like a fixer.

It's like something's not working. She comes up with a solution and, and it just works. I like 

Kathy: Oh, I love that. 'cause she is, she's in my area and I, she's been on my list. Like I want to meet her. I haven't met her yet. I've had, I think I may have reached out to her. I don't totally remember, but I've heard 

Stacy: I think we talked about that. We'll have to, yeah. Trying to get something. I haven't seen her. Now for a while 'cause I, she's so busy. She's traveling All over. Yeah. Yeah. 

Kathy: Stacy, it's just been a pleasure to see you again and talk with you, 

Linda: It's just been really enjoyable.

Stacy: Oh, thank you. 

Kathy: we just got off of our podcast with Stacy, and I'm curious, Linda, how are you feeling after your first podcast conversation? I don't like calling 'em interviews. I like to call 'em a conversation. So how are you feeling after, after that?

Linda: I felt like it took a little while to settle in. Um, I've been listening to podcasts about podcasts and they say that it takes about 50 episodes to settle in and, um, I don't know if it'll take that long. I've done a little bit of recording before and, um, video recording, but I, I did feel in the beginning I felt a lot better in the end than I did in the beginning.

But I love the style of this podcast where it's conversations and casual and we can laugh a little and share stories and, um. I think it was a good experience with Stacy, especially since both of us know her so well, [00:45:00] and I think she was comfortable too, so I think it went really well.

Kathy: I had no idea that she thought of herself as shy and didn't like speaking, and didn't like asking questions. I, I've known her for probably close to, well, probably like, maybe 25 years. I never got that impression from her at all. I don't, I don't, I don't know if you did, 'cause you've known her probably a little bit longer.

Linda: Um, yeah, I have known her longer and I, I do remember her being a little more quiet, um, in those early. Early days, but you know, I probably was too, you know, and, um, she, I think she's grown tremendously. I think, um, you know, recently I've seen her at different things and, and, um, just the more she knows and the more knowledge she can, she can share.

I've really seen her evolve in her, in her career. And as far as knowing that fiber industry, um, you know, she does a lot more than she gives [00:46:00] herself credit for. She's very smart.

Kathy: Well, and it's a lot, right? Like building fiber to to areas that don't have it and don't have access like that, it, it is not a small project or a small deal at all. Like, this is not, we're not talking buildings, we're talking like miles and miles of like outdoor fiber and permitting and construction and, you know, like that's, it's a lot.

And the whole, you know, just the, the grants and trying to navigate that grant space is really hard. I mean, that's a space that I have, I would say like more recently got involved in and it's a lot so.

Linda: it's costly and any mistakes can be really costly. So it's in, you know, it's a lot of stress to make sure you do it right.

Kathy: Yeah. Yeah. Is there anything, um, that surprised you either in, you know, the conversation that we had with Stacy or in doing the podcast? 

Linda: Um, I can't think of too many surprises.

Kathy: Oh, other [00:47:00] than she's gonna be a grandma. Like that

Linda: oh

Kathy: that,

Linda: That was a huge surprise. Yeah. Can always know.

Kathy: I feel, I feel like we got to like be like on air, on air sharing of like life breaking events.

Linda: I know when she mentioned it, I'm like, that sounds like we should know that. It was just kind of a casual mention. It's like, what you gonna be grandma? Did I know this? No. And then she said it was, it was new and I'm like, oh yeah, that's, I thought so. That was exciting. Oh my gosh. She's in store for a lot of fun.

Kathy: Both you guys, grandma's. Yeah, I don't think we talked about the fact, like when we were talking about the advice, um, I think we, and we talked about this on our, on our prep call, but I think between the three of us, we have almost a hundred years of experience for answering or at least providing advice.

Like, I don't know that I would say like answering questions. 'cause sometimes they just have, like, sometimes it just brings up more [00:48:00] questions. But a hundred years of career to. Provide perspective on, which is crazy.

Linda: Right, right. And if you think of things to be grateful for, I, I've always been grateful in the co-op space that there's people like you and Stacy that just this network of, you know. Other people that are doing what you're doing and have, can share advice or give advice or, and, and most importantly, get advice on something that you haven't done before. I, I'm just really grateful for the whole, that co-op industry of sharing. You know, in the early years, I really didn't know that other businesses didn't do that.

Kathy: I know. Right, right. Like, okay. So when you left your, when you left your co-op and went to like the other company, were you in for like a rude awakening of like, oh, there's like this competition and you have to like watch the other vendors and stuff, like they're not talking like you might be at like a booth next to 'em.

They're like, they're not talking to [00:49:00] you like they might've been your best friend when you worked at your utility, but now they're like, Ooh, you work for the enemy. Like I would, same thing, like I was, I had no idea. Like, because I mean, I started, I started at my utility at 22, right?

Like right out of college. Like I didn't have another job. I didn't have any other perspective. Um, I've always said that it's been a great place to grow up. I spent 25 years there. It was a great place to grow up and to like learn things. And I also, and this I think you'll probably, 'cause we both went to vendors after we left our utility.

Um, I had no idea that utilities operate so slowly on things like purchasing and you have to like, have like very established relationships. I also thought that was normal. And so when you go someplace and they're like. I wasn't in sales, but I would, you know, overhear people talking about sales. Like, oh, you need to go turn that meeting into a sale within three months.

And I'm like, what do you mean three months? I'm like, that's a first [00:50:00] date. You've gotta woo that company for like a good like three years before they're gonna even consider bike something from you. I'm like, this is not normal. Like, what do you mean? So it was like, but I think having that perspective and being able to bring that perspective to like another company that's not used to that industry, 'cause apparently not all industries are like that.

Um, was, is is really helpful. And, and also I know it's like very frustrating when you're on the other side of it, um, for things to like move that slowly. But also we like to have our. Things that you buy and put onto our electric systems or gas systems or water systems or whatever utility you're in, they need to be very, very stable.

So there's, there's good reasons for it. Um, but yeah, I, I, I love, I love having been in the utility industry or still, I mean, I still am just not

Linda: Yeah, I do too.

Kathy: but.

Linda: I do too. I just find there's, there's so many fascinating things that you get drawn into that you, you know, I feel like I do know a little bit about how the, [00:51:00] the whole, um, operations system operates and the technology behind all, all the feeders and line design and, um, I, like you say no expert, but you learn a lot just by supporting all of those different areas.

Kathy: Yeah. And um. You know, one of the things that I think is like really important and also and critical and, and my husband also, he's a system operator at a utility. He has a lot of friends that are alignment, like those guys put their lives are like literally on the line and making sure that they are supported and taken care of and you know, that they have things that they need to be safe and stuff like that is like really important.

But they're the ones that are out in the storms and at night. Making sure that our power gets restored. And I don't know that they always get enough credit for the hard work that they do. So,

Linda: right.

Kathy: anything else that we wanna chit chat about?

Linda: I don't, I don't think so. [00:52:00] I'm thinking more and more about Stacy and, um, you know, the, just having the interview with her and we could go on for an hour or two just talking about all the things, the things that she does and her job and getting the tour up there was really interesting.

Kathy: Yeah, I love Stacy. She's great.

Linda: She really

Kathy: She's been an absolutely like wonderful person to have had in, at least in my network for,

Linda: Mm-hmm.

Kathy: many years. So, yeah, we've got a lot of like, appreciate having, having a great network of people

Linda: Mm-hmm.

Kathy: in our industry. So.

Linda: Mm-hmm.

Kathy: All right. Well, I think that we can close out. I,

I'd like to say go enjoy our, like, nice day on a lake, but it's a rainy day. In Minnesota on the lake. So it's a good day to watch a movie and, oh, actually, you know what's coming out tonight? I dunno if you watch this. The summer I turned pretty, apparently the last season is coming out, so my daughter's super excited and she's like, [00:53:00] mom, we need to watch this today. So that's what we're going to do like later on

Linda: I don't know this one. I'll have to put that on the list.

Kathy: It's um, it's not all that good.

Linda: Well, thanks for the warning.

Kathy: Isabel will say, like, she, I think it's okay, but she's like, it's, it kind of like draws you in. But she will say, it's like, what did she say? It's like her favorite cringe watch or something. I don't know. Something like that.

Linda: Oh, funny.

All right. Well, thank you. That was a, that was an awesome first experience. I'm, I'm just gonna love this. I'll just say, I'm gonna love it. It was just, just wonderful. I'm so excited.

Kathy: It's very casual.

Linda: very casual. No, I'm

Kathy: Yeah. I'm excited too. I am super. I'm super happy to

have you co-hosting with me, so thank you.

Linda: Thank you. You too. Bye.

[00:54:00]

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