The Charm Sales System: Closing Deals That Stick

On this episode of Unlocked With Tracy Wilson, Tracy delves into the world of sales and how to close deals without resorting to slimy tactics. 

Joined by special guest Dustin Bogle, founder of the Charm Sales System, Tracy and Dustin discuss how to create warm and welcoming environments where customers feel safe to open up and discuss their problems, how to create emotional connections with customers, and the importance of establishing trust through things like customer success stories, positive reviews, and valuable content. 

Listeners are encouraged to connect with the podcast host for further insight and discussion on improving their sales skills, and a combination of paid and organic marketing is recommended, along with targeted lead magnets and using the Charm Sales Process. 

Tune in to this episode for valuable tips and strategies on how to improve your sales and build lasting relationships with potential customers.

Transcript

Speaker A [00:00:10]:

Hey, good morning everybody and welcome to another episode of The Unlocked Show. I'm your host, Tracy Wilson. My absolute pleasure to be here with you guys today. I've got a real question for you this morning. For some of you, you are going to say you absolutely love sales, but for most people that I talk to, they go eck. Don't really like this whole sales process. I don't want to be pushy, don't want to be slimy or sound like a used car salesman. So if that's you, if you struggle with sales or maybe you struggle in closing deals with your business, today's episode is absolutely for you. You are in absolute luck because on today's episode of The Unlock Show, we've got a really special guest all the way from Texas and his name is Dustin Bogle. And what I want to say about Dustin is that he's a sales expert. He's the founder of the Charm Sales System, which we're going to be talking a lot about. We're going to be delving into that. And this sales system has actually helped businesses close up to 92% of their deals without having to resort to that slimy used car salesman tactics or using high pressure sales or anything like that or even compromising your values. So if you're going to tune into today's show, you are going to walk away with a way in being able to convert sales and being able to do it that's in absolute alignment with who you are and in alignment with your own values. So Dustin has been an entrepreneur. He's been in business for over 15 years and he's actually helped numerous businesses really harvest more sales from their leads using both the sales systems, the Charm sales system and also the Fortune follow up system. So like I said, hang about because we're going to delve into both of those. Welcome to the show, Dustin. I know we're going to delve a little bit into your background too because you've got quite an interesting background as to how this kind of all started. So we'll kind of go there and you could tell us a little bit more about that and then we're going to get stuck into kind of what this Charm Sales system is, what the Fortune Follow up system is and how this actually applies to all businesses, all entrepreneurs. No matter what style of business you have, you really grew up in the space of gyms and you've created an empire in the gym space. But this system that you've created really is something that is transferable no matter what kind of business you are. Anyway, welcome to the show. Great to have you here.

Speaker B [00:02:38]:

Thank you. Excited to be here. What an introduction. You have me on cloud nine and that's good for the audience because that means I'm going to bring my best stuff and help them grow their business. So let's make some magic happen.

Speaker A [00:02:48]:

Tracy, we totally love that. So dustin, tell us a little bit about how did you 15 years in the game, but it started well before that, didn't it? You kind of tell us a little bit about your history and how you came to really love sales and why you've gone down this path of actually helping other people really love sales too.

Speaker B [00:03:12]:

Great question. So I think the way that I kind of reframed sales for myself is when I had the realization that everything around us was at one point sold to us and you might just not know it this shirt, right? It serves a purpose. It's here to make me feel warm. It's here to be nice and snug on my arms so I look nice and jacked. I need this computer, I need my car. All these things were sold to me and they make my life better. And so a lot of times when business owners are feeling icky about selling their product, it's because they're coming from a place of selfishness. I want to close this deal. I want to make a sale. I want the commission. I want to close them. And all those statements are selfish because they start with I. And so where you kind of first want to change your framework is put on your service hat and say it's about them. I want to make their life better. I want to solve their problems. I want to give them an amazing product for a great value. And so when you change it to them, immediately, it relieves your issues. And if you got clammy hands, you will get sweaty and clammy and nervous about sales. But I say, hey, here's a perfect example. Last time you went to the movies, you saw awesome movie and you went and told your friend to go see it. Did you get all weird and clammy and feel like you're a salesman? It's like, no, because you were just trying to tell your friend, I love this, I want you to go and see it too, because you believed in it. And the same goes if you go to an awesome restaurant or you stay at a great hotel. You just tell your friends because you want them to experience what you experienced. But the minute somebody's being paid to sell people, they have this mental shift where the company is depending on it and I need to really persuade them otherwise I'm not doing a good job. But I just say, hey, remove that, be that friend that's just trying to help them get a better way of life by connecting them with this service or product. And if it's authentically, a need they have, there is no pressure. You're helping them. They raise their hand. They're the one that said, I'm interested in your product or service, probably not cold calling people in the yellow pages. So don't feel bad about it and make their life better and get your product or service in their hands.

Speaker A [00:05:19]:

I'm kind of glad that you've gone down this path right from the get go. And it's this concept of kind of our mindset, right, is that reframing things because often we get inside our own heads and like you said, we put that sales hat on and we think, gosh, I I have to sell this. I have to do this because the company's relying on it, et cetera, et cetera. When we make that switch and we go, actually, let's just reframe this. To think about the person whom I'm trying to help here, like the product and the service that I have, is it something that is of great value to somebody else? And if it is, is that really selling something to someone? You could say, well, it's actually helping them, giving them the opportunity to enjoy that movie, to get fit, to enjoy this t shirt that they're going to be wearing, et cetera, et cetera. So it's really interesting that you would make that kind of point right off the bat. Where do you see in terms of mindset shift, how big of an impact have you seen that have on the success of either an individual or on a business itself? Like, how important is that?

Speaker B [00:06:38]:

It's huge. And I think the place where you want to dig into the roots is objectively looking at your money mindset. So first ask yourself, we are as adults, nothing more than grown up versions of us as kids. So let's rewind back to that. As a kid, what kind of programming were you receiving in your household? Were they saying things like, money doesn't grow on trees? What do you think I'm made of money? Don't you know how much that costs? The rich get richer, the poor get poor. All these snarky, negative remarks. Guess what? If you hear that for years and years, that's programming you to believe money is a bad thing. And again, I love my mom to death, but something she would often say is, it's disgusting how much these politicians make. It's disgusting how much these movie stars get paid for a movie. It's disgusting how much these CEOs pay themselves. And so when somebody's hearing something like that, I had to go and do self work and say, hey, I don't believe that. I'm not going to adopt these because somebody else believes it. I need to have my own beliefs. And I quickly changed it to, hey, good for them. If they added that much value, then they deserve it. They earned it. And so there's things we want to say out loud that are good for us to say to program our households. I have two kids. I say often, I love being sold, man, that guy did a great job of selling me. I want them to hear sales is a good thing. And I want to root. When a CEO makes a lot of money or someone gets out of the slums and they make it into the gated community and you can't get in your life. That what you hate. So if you're hating on rich people and you're hating on wealthy people and you're hating on CEOs that are getting great incomes, how are you ever going to get it? You have a negative connotation with it. So don't hate on it. Root it on. Cheer it. Like buy your friends products, buy your friend's services. When somebody's making great money, cheer them on. Don't you know? They say everybody wants you to make it and get rich until you get it before them, right? And they're like, no, but I want it. And so change that and make sure the people around you see it do it publicly, right? That's what we need to change. Just the way we talk about money, it's become a very negative thing. So that's the first place the roots that are inside of you is the programming that you got growing up and the way you act when you talk about money.

Speaker A [00:09:04]:

This is an interesting thing, right? This whole programming of when we were children, when we're growing up, and the things that you heard, where do you think that comes from? Like you and I would have had products of the baby boomers, I would say. And the things that you're saying, I have heard myself, and I'm sure that anybody else listening would have heard those words somewhere in their life. Unless, of course, they come from a household like yours and I's where we've kind of woken up to the fact that what we put into our brain and what we say out loud becomes imprinted onto ourselves and those around us and our children. And they become the beliefs that we kind of grab onto and hang on to. And they go with us into adulthood. Where do you think all of that came from? And how do we recognize that we're doing these sorts of things? Because if that's one of the biggest reasons that people not just have trouble with sales but actually have trouble in life financially, is to do with this whole mindset and our belief system around money. Where do you think that actually came from and why do people speak about it in that manner?

Speaker B [00:10:25]:

I think you're spot on. It's generational. We talk about generational wealth and when you can build something and pass it down to the next generation and create legacy and it keeps getting passed down, but also could be negative generational wealth, which means negative remarks around business, negative beliefs around business. And then you pass it down to their kids, and now you raise kids to pass it down. So someone has to be the one to come in and break the cycle. And that's how I see it at my family. I'm sure you and many of the listeners and viewers are feeling they're the same way. Like I'm the person that interrupted it. Again, I come from the fitness world. So we even talk about generational health. Hey, my grandma's obese, my mom's obese, but I got healthy. I'm breaking the generational cycle of unhealthy lifestyle in my family. So someone has to be the one. There's the movie The Matrix. Neo is the one. He comes in, he saves the day, and he's the one. So who's the one in your family that's going to say, we will no longer struggle with money, we will no longer say these negative remarks. I will say out loud, what a great investment, that guy, I love how he sold me. I love being sold, man. Money allows me to do these amazing things. These are things to say out loud to change that for your family and for theirs and to literally break the cycle and create a new one. So I think you're spot on. It's generational passed on.

Speaker A [00:11:46]:

I love this, Justin, because especially around that, who's going to be the neo in your family? Is it you? So today, if you're listening and this sort of stuff has gone on in your family, my question to you is, have you already stepped up and become the neo to break that generational cycle for your family? I just want you guys to ponder on that a little bit. And if you haven't, are you willing to are you willing to actually step up and start to reprogram, reframe the conversations that you're either having with yourself or with other people around money and success and what that's going to look like for you? Because I guarantee you the moment you start doing that, things will start to change. And maybe Justin could talk a little bit more about this too. And I think even though it's not, I mean, it is directly related to sales. Because if you've got that negative connotations going around in your head, then it's going to be very difficult for you to start making sales because you'll constantly be thinking, should I be doing this? Can that person really afford it? And you're putting all of your own beliefs, you're lacing what you're doing in life and in business and through your talk with your negative self beliefs and you might not even realize that you're doing that. It's quite a fascinating thing, isn't it?

Speaker B [00:13:11]:

It is. And there's funny something people do that kind of connects to money mindset when they're selling. And that is they sell with their own wallet. And so there's things we all value and there's things that the buyer, purchaser or customer is looking for. And we can sometimes project what we value as what they value. And that doesn't always match. So, for example, some people might value convenience and they want Amazon bringing it to their door in 24 hours. They want DoorDash, they want Netflix. I could press a button, it's right there at the tip of my fingers. This is often the case with CEOs busy moms. People are like, I just need speed, fast food, and then you got value. I need the bargain. I need a coupon clip. I never pay retail. I want the secret menu. I want the hookup. Give me a deal. I never pay full price. And so that person values the price and the bargain. And then another person might value the best in class. They're like, money is no object. I want the best quality product. I want this to be done the right way the first time. I don't want to cut costs. And then I have to hire two people to do it after. And so these are just a few. There's many more. But what do you do if somebody is selling because they as the salesperson value price and trying to find a deal and save money to a person who values the best in class, right? That is like a mismatch from hell. And so the business will they will literally scare them away because the words they say, hey, we're running a great deal. We actually just were running the sale. And then the best in class person is like, are you even listening? I said money is not an object. I want the best. I'll pay full price. It's not a problem. And then they're like, well, we'll hurry up and buy today because I can actually get you this 20% off. And they're just going to walk out on you, right? Because they can see that what value is not what they value. Forget the product or service. Listen to the vocabulary. Listen for the words of what they're saying they value. Is it speed, is it the price, is it the quality? And then that's how your pitch should just literally be what they're saying. So that's why, again, the intake and the asking questions is so important. Not because we're trying to play Jedi mind tricks, but we're trying to actually listen to what the customer values and then find how that connects to our product or service. And then we, as the salespeople, bridge those gaps. That's something, again, AI will never be able to do.

Speaker A [00:15:38]:

Totally. I mean, you're making a really good point here about the fact that often we're selling with our own wallet. And like you said, we're overlaying our own beliefs to that person. And if you value price or you value getting a deal, then you're selling from that point of view with the system. Let's talk a little bit about the charm sales process because I know that based on what you're talking about here, we want to connect with the person and start to understand what is it that is important to them, not important to us, not what makes us take what's important to that. We love a great deal. So let's just throw that on to the customer. How do we find out? How do we use the charm sales process to really start to understand what a customer wants and needs and how do we transition that into it being a value added transaction connection that doesn't feel salesy or icky?

Speaker B [00:16:49]:

Yeah, I'm a big believer in sales. Like, you'll find so many sales experts are saying it's all about the script. You got to memorize the script. And I just find that that doesn't work for the most part. People don't want to feel like an actor memorizing a script. They just need a framework. They need guidance on how to navigate the conversation. And then their job is actually to listen and to use intuition and just kind of see where the conversation is. Because if the script tells me to say this, but somebody's crying in front of me, I felt will feel like a robot. Right? So there's things that you need to know, a framework to just know how to move through a sales process and make it so that it's customer centric. Because, again, a lot of salespeople or just companies set up their processes to be company centric. We get the win. How can we make the payment as quickly as possible? How can we do a one call close? Nobody's asking, how do we make this best for the customer? And so when you shift to that, that's where a salesperson, again, really starts to stack up, wins and close more deals is when they're being customer centric, not company centric. So the charm sales process is, funny enough, came to me from a team member that would listen to me closing people at a very high percentage, and she would just lean in and say, dustin, I think you just close people off of charm alone. Like, you just get them in, you disarm them, and your charm makes them sign the dotted line. And so although I feel like that is a natural skill of mine, I was also challenging her, saying, well, I trained other people who you would argue are not, quote, unquote, charming, and they were able to do it. And so I just put it into just because I like that word, I was like, I got to make that work. I got to make it the charm sales process. And so I did. And so I'll give you guys what it is exactly. So the C, it is an acronym. C is crack a smile. And so the first thing you want to do is disarm somebody, because if they know they're going to an appointment to be sold, they're already puckering their butt and they're already stiff, and they're not wanting to really open up. And so the first thing I got to do is I got to get them to crack a smile. So I'll crack a joke. I'll make fun of myself. Maybe I'll make a bald joke. I will make fun of something my kids do or something that's in the office or just something that happened to me today. But the first thing I want them to do is I cannot move forward until they're smiling. And so I tell this to the salesperson like, you cannot go past go collect $200 until they're smiling. So C is get them to smile. Let's immediately feel like some sort of joy and happiness. Crack a smile. Right? H is. Now let's get into the topic of how can I help? And that's the H. So what's the problem? What made you reach out? Why are you here today? These are the great questions to kind of leave it open ended and don't immediately plug in your service, because that's what people do. Like, why are you here with me? To look at our cars on our car lot? Why are you here? To talk to me about redoing your sales process. Just make it as open ended so that they have a broad stroke to tell you about everything going on. So, again, those questions would be more like, why are you here today? How can I help? Why did you decide to reach out? Those are good questions. To leave it to allow them to guide the conversation. So that's H. Next we go to A, which is ask for the pain. Because sometimes with that H, how can I help? You get a really vague answer. Somebody says, I was just reaching out to figure out how this works or to learn more about your pricing. Or I'm in the fitness space, so I'm just looking to lose some weight. And so, just very general, I want to get healthy. It's like, okay, this is not enough pain. And so something to remind all salespeople. Sales only happens out of pain. People are either trying to get out of pain or move towards pleasure. But the current statistics is that it's about 84% of people I would identify with. They're trying to get out of some sort of pain. And so double down on digging into the pain. Make them say sentences that have the word feel in it. So how does that feel? How does that make you feel? How long have you been feeling this way? We are feeling based. Emotion based beings do not try to go for logic. That's the number one problem salespeople make. Well, hey, this is how much you're paying there. This is how much it is here. Look at we're a lower price. Or our process is better, our community is better, or we're more positive. We have better support. None of that makes me feel emotionally moved. And think of the movies that literally make you cry. Are the most emotional, right? Or the songs that make you feel emotional. All the stuff we move towards is emotion based. So if you're very robotic and logic, that's probably why you're not closing as many people. I would literally have a tissue box on my desk, and I expected the whole box to be gone by the end of the week because people would be I would get them emotional and so it's like, again, in my industry, here's a silly example. He kind of gets poked at. And that's Richard Simmons. He's not certified. He doesn't know the first thing about nutrition. What does he know about fitness? He's got this crazy hair and he's doing side to side grapevines. But the man would get women emotional and he would get them breaking down. And so he has a personal training studio in Beverly Hills that has a six month waiting list. No certification, no degree, but he can connect with people. Oprah is the same way. There's many famous business people that were able to move people emotionally, and that's what drew them towards them. So this is where, again, you get the pain. If you feel no emotion, if there's no vibration in your body about the emotion, do not move to the next letter. Like, keep staying right here until you get some pain, until you get some emotion, until things are a little uncomfortable, honestly. Because what needs to happen is they're like, I need to get out of this pain. I need to be at ten out of ten pain. Help me. And that's where we go to R and R's. Reveal your solution. But there's no point in revealing a solution if there's no pain. And so this even happens later on in the sales cycle, is when people buy your initial product and you're trying to upsell them. A lot of times you'll come at them and just say, hey, I got this other product, this dollars. But what they forgot to do is dig up some pain, which is like, hey, now that you're in our first product, we solve this problem. But you're probably experiencing this pain now, right? Are you feeling that? And again, I want to hear it from them. Are you feeling that pain? Because we have the second tier product and it's going to get you out of that pain. But sometimes we just go straight for the price or the easy upsell. But people who are not in pain don't buy. So you got to really hit that. And then you review solution. And here's where the ninja tactics of sales comes in. You have to connect what they said specifically about their pain and how your product or service is going to solve it. Again, connect those dots. You said X, this is how this is going to help you with that. You said Y, this is how this is going to connect you with that. And so if you've done the right good job of building out your product and making this perfect product or service, it should match up very nicely with their pain. And again, an example I'll give you from fitness is if I have an 80 year old lady and she tells me, Dustin, I need my bones to be more dense, and I need more core strength, and I need more stability so I don't fall over. And the whole time she's telling me about her problems, I should be freaking out, thinking, how did this woman get into my office? My product is not right for her. And then if I have a middle aged woman, she's like, Dustin, I'm stressed out. I'm packing on pounds since I got married, two kids, I'm taking care of everybody else and not me, and I don't know what to eat to get this weight off. The whole time she's talking about her pain, I'm like, oh my God, she's at the right place. My product is completely for her. I can't wait to tell her all about it. So, as they're explaining pain, you should be either really excited or really freaking out, but you should not feel anywhere in the middle. They should either be a perfect fit or not a fit. And again, connect them to another specialist if they're not right for you right? Or another person. And then finally we go to the M and Charm and that is make the sale. And so many sales are lost because people just don't know how to ask a direct question to get closed, which is, so which one do you want? A or B? Do you want to put it on card paid in full or do you want to go on a monthly payment plan? But just close it and a lot of people will finish a presentation or a talk on the product with, so let me know when you're ready to get started or reach out when you want to get going. And you're basically showing them to the door verbally and you need to just stop and get them to make the decision. You've done all this work, now just make the sale. So that is the Charm sales process and a very quick brief overview. Again, I spent a whole day workshop diving into this in more detail, but that is the general overview.

Speaker A [00:25:41]:

Well, let me say the team member that had been watching you diligently was very smart and being able to obviously she used this process herself to watch and understand and decipher what it was that you were actually doing and then being able to take that away and put it into a system. I absolutely love it. It's quite interesting in terms of first off the bat is getting somebody to change their state, getting them to get into a state of mind that actually creates the platform or the foundation for a sale to actually take. Place, getting them to smile, getting them to connect with you and creating that kind of that warm and welcoming environment where they feel safe to then move to that next step where you can start talking to them about how come that? Can you actually help asking? In some cases in sales, we're asking quite intimate questions and the more detailed we can get about those questions. I heard something a while back in my career and being. In sales. And it was this concept of if you can explain to the person their problem better than they can, nine times out of ten they are going to, you then become the person who has the solution. So that piece around asking questions and really taking the time to listen to what they're saying, so that down the track, when you get to the point where you're going to be revealing the solution, you can reiterate back to them their problems better than they could even describe them themselves. You are going to be I mean, you talk about 93% of the time you're going to close a sale. I would agree with you because in this case, where you're able to explain to them better than they can, they are going to say you are the person who's got the solution for me. So I absolutely love that. And this whole piece around emotion, when we create emotion inside of somebody, that then creates or gives the motivation, creates the emotion for them to want to do something about it. And more often than not, that won't be the first time that there's been emotion created around this. If they are having back problems, we talk from the gym point of view or they are putting on weight, they've already had this emotion themselves, really in private. And what you're now doing is bringing that emotion out of them at that time so that you now can connect the solution to the big problem that they have. I love that. So this whole system that you've now created around charm, I mean, there's nothing salesy sleazy uncomfortable about that at all. It's quite charming on the flip side of that. Right? It's to be charming and for it to feel like it's a very natural process.

Speaker B [00:28:47]:

Yes. And that's the thing, is that I know there's no script, but if you check these boxes, I guarantee you'll make a sale if you get them to be disarmed. Again, let's go through the roller coaster of emotions immediately. Joy, smile, happiness. You're disarming me. Then you're listening to me. Most salespeople want to start by talking. So the first thing you're saying is, how can I help? Now you're listening. Oh, cool, you're a good listener. Then you're digging into the pain, so you want to know more. Again, you're just prompting me questions and you're asking me more and you're letting me talk more. This is a great way to make a sale. Then you're finally going to reveal your solution. Keep it simple, connect the dots, tell me how my pain will be solved with what you offer. And then you're asking for commitment. And so a lot of people are afraid of that. They feel like it's confrontational. But if you've done a good job with pain, this happens every single time. And so again, the person probably not experienced this type of service from another salesperson. They probably said, we have XYZ product for this price, are you in or you out? People just don't listen. And so the fact that, again, you go through this regardless of what you sell, what industry you're in, I promise you, you will close people. But the big one I just want to hit is the A. Ask for the pain. Ask for a lot of pain. Make sure it's an uncomfortable amount of pain, more pain, more sales.

Speaker A [00:30:06]:

And I would say that if you don't do this particular process too, the likelihood the person might sign on the dotted line there and then, but the likelihood of them sticking at it and being there for the long term to solve the actual problem that they have is pretty slim. If you don't make that connection early on in the piece, what do you see is after doing this for many, many years and obviously training a lot of people around how to use the system, what do you see are the top problems that people have? Like, what do the top salespeople experience the biggest problems around?

Speaker B [00:30:49]:

I would say the first thing is objections that they think they're surprised when an objection comes up, like, oh my God, they said they can't afford it. Or they got to talk to their spouse, like, what am I going to do? And it's like, if you're a highly trained, highly REPT salesperson, this should not surprise you. And in fact, it's my opinion that the sale begins at the objection. Because everything into that point was exchange information. The person told you about the problem, you told the solution. If the person would just buy right then and there, that's called a menu. That means they just need to know what do you have and what are the prices? And let me pick from the menu. There's no salesperson at the fast food restaurant or the movie theaters you go in. And I want this from the menu. Buy from me. So every business that doesn't need salespeople just has menus. And so salespeople need to kind of come to terms with like, the sale begins at the objection. Now your sales skills are being put to the test. That's why we need a human here. If we didn't need one, we would just have a menu. And so don't get caught off guard. You should be calm and you should have your rebuttal for every single one of them. And if you don't, you need to do role play, as silly as that sounds, as one of the old school things, I do agree. Get your ugly reps out with your team members and your fellow staff mates. You don't want to waste a good lead because that's one rep that you are working out your rebuttal. Get it dialed in, talk to other reps. What do you say when they say they got to talk to their spouse? What do you say when they talk about the time? And maybe we need to create like a document where we all share our best responses, but that is where the sale or the objection sale begins. Is that the objection? And so that is one big mistake, is salespeople being surprised by objections? That's why you're here. It's to overcome these. Yeah. The second would be conviction. A lot of people do things because they want to say yes to the paycheck and not because of the passion. And so they hear you can make a lot of money selling cars, selling whatever. And I consider myself to be a good salespeople person, but if you give me something I don't really care about or I'm not passionate about, I'm probably not going to be on the leaderboard. For example, for golf. Like, I don't play golf. I don't care about golf. Tell me to sell golf clubs, I'll probably be like a mid level person. I'm not going to be at the top because those people you're going to find are good at sales and they love the product or service. That's why MLM works so great, because in an MLM, it's basically all their best customers. They've now flipped into salespeople, and now they're out telling everybody how awesome the product is. And so it's genius for that reason. But definitely salespeople got to check their conviction, say, do I really love this product? Do I really believe in this service? Do I think it's going to be life changing when the customer buys it? If not, I probably need to either, a, dive into the customer success, I need to read the reviews, I need to hear how this is really changing people's life, and I need to be sold before I can sell it, or b maybe I go through all that and I find out I'm still not jazzed up. I need to go find something else to sell. I need to move on into another industry. And that's okay. But I would say that that's the next thing that holds salespeople back is they're just going through the motion. They took the job because they heard you can make a lot in sales, but they don't really believe in the product or service. So that would be the second big mistake. It's just saying yes to the paycheck and not to the passion.

Speaker A [00:34:16]:

Yeah. I mean, quite interesting, even that whole concept around the objections and just spending time thinking through what are all the things that people would say to rebut my offer? What are all the objections that they would come up with? And quite often I don't see salespeople or businesses really taking the time to sit down and think through these things. Because when you sit down and you brainstorm all of the things that will be challenges, the objections that will be thrown at you, then you can start thinking about, well, what would I actually say in this situation? Is that a legitimate objection? And what do I say now to start moving forward. Because, as you say, if the case is that the sale starts at the objection, you best be prepared to understand what are those objections that might come up? What are some of the things that people are going to throw at you so that you've got time to be able to think through how you would navigate through those? And then of course, if you don't have conviction and you don't really love and are passionate about what it is that you do or what the product or services that you're selling, then that shines through. You can see that a mile away when somebody's passionate about it. You can also feel that passion and that emotion that that salesperson has also has an opportunity to be able to create the motion to be able to move the sales forward. So there's also if there were one other in this mix, what would you say would be a third that really does kind of have salespeople come unstuck?

Speaker B [00:35:57]:

Yeah, I think it's when I hear the term the leads are no good. The leads are low quality, nobody's responding, nobody's buying. And so ask yourself, like, put yourself in their shoes. Why would they opt? Why would they reach out? Sure, there's going to be window shoppers and tire kickers and people that are just looking around, but if most people don't know this, where did the term tire kicker even come in? In sales, it was a person who was inspecting the car and they were kicking the tire, making sure there's actually air in it, because there was a lot of cars being sold with flat tires. So it's not that they're bad buyers. They're just doing their due diligence. They don't want to get ripped off. Maybe they've been burned. I know I've seen that in the gym space. People said, hey, just so you know, I'm skeptical. I was at this other gym and they double drafted me two months in a row. My dues came out twice in a month instead of once a month. And so they're like, how do I know you're secure? How do I know my credit card safe with you? And so they're doing their due diligence. They have a right to be upset that some other person took advantage of them and have a guard up. So your job again, charm, crack a smile, disarm them, say, and this is where you want to point. How long you been in business? How many five star reviews you have? I could connect you with another customer and then that way it'll ease you. And so find ways to disarm them when they're showing up with their fist of wanting to fight. Right. Because they probably want your product. They did opt in. But also understand, this is a phrase I say actually in my book, trust equals transactions. And so the reason the leads quote, are no good is not because your product or service sucks. It's because they simply don't trust you. And you're not establishing yourself as an authority. Your positioning is off. So why are you unique? Why do I go with your competitors? What makes you different? So, like, trust me, I am unique. I have a different way of doing things and it works. Testimonials, show me some of your customer success. Show me some of your five star reviews. Interview a client and let them tell me you're awesome, because I'm only hearing you say you're awesome and then finally give me value. So many people are going for the sale right out of the gate. Give them a piece of valuable content. Do you have a PDF with some free tips that they can immediately get results in advance before they hire you? And immediately now they're like, wow, these guys are awesome. Like, I took action on this five step checklist and my business grew or I lost weight or I improved my sales. What kind of valuable content are you spitting out? Because a lot of times the only marketing a company is putting out is offers. We'll stop and put out what I call like a value hook, something that has got a cool title to it and it's valuable to your audience and it's free. So it could be a podcast, it could be a PDF, it could be a free mini. Course they get access to but give value. And that is going to put goodwill in the goodwill bank accounts of all those leads. And then when you ask, you're going to get a higher response rate. So those would be some others, like, just not building trust.

Speaker A [00:38:58]:

Awesome. I'm glad you've gone down this path. You're speaking my language now. So we're talking about building authority. And one of the things that you talked about was that a big problem people had is that they would say, the leads that I'm getting are poor quality. They're rubbish the people that are being sent to me with tire kickers. So what sort of things do you do to be able to ensure that you get a good all round, constant flow of nonstop leads that are good quality? What sort of things can you do?

Speaker B [00:39:37]:

Well, first of all, I love that you use the word rubbish and I need to use that word more often, so thank you for putting that in my mind. But yes, in terms of getting you more leads, first of all, understand you're going to have probably two main categories. You're going to have what I call microwave sales, which are like 30 seconds to 60 seconds. You put some in the microwave, it's ready to go. Those are the people who have heard about your brand, probably referrals, like they've been referred by a customer. They already know about your brand, they've been watching you and they're just basically calling and saying, take my order, I'm ready to buy. And that was why it was a microwave sales like opt in and buy the next day. But that warps the business owner to thinking everybody's going to buy like that. And so what they got to do is they got to understand there's going to be different buying behaviors. Those people are already trusting you for whatever reason. They consumed your content. They were referred by a friend, they were just a lay down and that's not normal. That's great to have but almost pretend that those are just gravy. That's not how you're normally going to do business. All your other leads are what I call boiling water sales. So it's the slow. You're putting on number two or three and you're slowly boiling water. And so some of these people, they're going to hit that boiling point at month three. Some it's going to be month six. I've had people be on my email list for two years and tell me they've been reading my content. Now they're finally ready to buy. So understand that's how you're going to be winning is having the long term mindset and you're going to get the short wins as well. And you got to play both games. So if you want to automate emails that go out and trickle out over a period of time, a nurture sequence, if you just write emails weekly to your list and to kind of update them on what's going on in your life and in your company and also add value. But basically that's the boiler. They just don't trust you. And so your job is to cycle through those three things I mentioned, like show them testimonials, maybe you can do this once a week, give them free value content and then finally start conversations with them. One of the best emails I'll share with you guys that works for me like a charm is the subject line is hey there. And the body is are you still interested in plug in the name of your product or service? One liner and out to email us and watch the flood of responses because it just looks more like a friend writing it than a company logo and header. And there's a professional sign off with our social media links. Don't always send those, those can go out. But mix it up with like a black and white text email and you'll be shocked at how many replies you get. But basically you're asking, are you still interested in what problems you're having? You're coming in asking them for their problems. So then you can turn around and make free content that's going to solve it and you can also infuse it into your paid services. So if you're circling through those three things you're nurturing, then you'll get the leads to eventually become sales for you.

Speaker A [00:42:27]:

So in terms of building out this whole sales, I'm going to call it an ecosystem of the things that we need to do to obviously attract a lead into the business. Nurture that person be able to have start a conversation and then be able to transition that into a sale and then continue to nurture the person to be able to continue to do business with them over a long period of time. If we start like right at the beginning with your lead generation strategies, what sort of things we talked a little bit about this in terms of the content that you'll create, what do you find is the best type of content to create and what do you see? Most people that are interested in your business, what sort of things are they interested in? What types of content have you seen to be the most effective?

Speaker B [00:43:23]:

Yeah, so this is going to be a combination of paid marketing and organic marketing, which is probably no surprise to people. But I would say what you are doing in terms of strategy is probably going to not be what you're doing right now. So most people are running paid ads on digital marketing to buy an offer or to book a call. And so I would say here's a crazy idea. What if you built a PDF that solves your audience's problems and you spent money to push it out to them? Crazy, right? Like most people would not think to do this. So, for example, with me, I gym owners, I literally push out a PDF called five Ways to Get More Sales in Your Gym. And I'm spending money pushing this out to them. I get low cost per lead because this is not me trying to pitch them. There is a pitch in the PDF, but I first give value, which is they need relief. They need sales in their gym and they need it now. And this free PDF will literally show them five ways they can increase sales immediately. And so that's what I spend my marketing dollars on. And this is something I've taught other business owners. So another example was somebody that's in landscaping. And I said, what if you spent money on a PDF that literally said three ways to spot a landscaper that is overcharging you, or three ways that you can improve the look of your exterior without spending an arm and a leg and literally calling the PDF that an arm and a leg? And so these are things that people have questions, they have problems, and you're bringing it to them and you're sponsoring to show it up on their feed. This is something you can put out. A business coach can say five ways to grow your business in the next 30 days, but spend money to put this guide out. And number one, you know, this is where you reverse engineer. If you take the time to design a guide that calls out your ideal customer, that will bring you the right people, because who would opt in for that? A person that has pain in that area. I have a guide in my gym. I push it out into ladies nearby the gyms. It's called the buy by belly fat meal plan. Who would opt into a Buy by Belly Fat meal plan that has the six pack? Nobody. Who's opting into it? Women that have a belly that they want to go away. So my lead magnet is calling out my ideal customer. What gym owner would opt into? It called I need five ways to get more sales. A person that doesn't got enough sales and they need more sales. And then my service does sales for gym owners. So reverse engineer your lead magnet to call out your ideal customer. Mix that in with your targeting boom, you're going to find your avatar coming right at you. And so that's what I would say for paid ads versus buy my stuff. I have this discount, get my promo code, and you're going to get more resistance. And your cost per lead is going to be higher. Again, trust.

Speaker A [00:46:18]:

Let them build trust with you and lead with value. So what we're saying here, if you couple who your ideal client is and understanding what their biggest problem is and then create something of value that's going to help them first and foremost resolve their biggest problem, then they're going to be interested in that. You're narrowing down boom. That is my target audience. They are the kind of people that are going to opt in and be on your list so that you can then continue to have a further conversation with them in your experience. So somebody going for and obviously spending money to push that out and get it into the eyeballs of the right kind of people on that piece of material. Once they've got that, what's the process then? So this nurture process, because now we've got somebody on our list, we know that they are the right type of clientele for us. What sort of lead time does it take you to go from a lead magnet, for example, right the way through to now I'm having a conversation with them and now becoming a paying client in my gym. You mentioned a little bit earlier, sometimes that can take two years.

Speaker B [00:47:29]:

Yes. Where this shows up is also in the book. It's called the Fortune Follow up system. And so one of the things I outlined there is having aggressive follow up in the early stage of the opt in. And so it doesn't have to be by my stuff, by my stuff, but it could just be a series of questions. Why did you download this guide on how to get more sales? How are sales going at your gym? It's basically an extension of the charm sales process. You're asking about the pain and you're saying, how can I help? And so a lot of times people will respond and say, man, now that you say that sales have been slow, I need someone to take it over. I've been doing it myself as the owner. What a beautiful way for us to start a conversation and then move it into a strategy call, right? So the first thing is, don't have an automation that just kicks on this PDF and then they get it. You got to have it where there's questions going with it. Sometimes they don't get it until they answer a question. They'll opt in. Can I get the buy by belly fat? Hey, before I send this to you, how many pounds are you looking to lose? Because we have an aggressive fat loss version, and we have, like, more of a middle of the road one. So I need to know which one to send. So now we're coming in, and we're starting to come with a conversation that's nurturing them based on the topic of the PDF and then leading them through a nurture sequence that asks questions. So in the book, the Fortune follow up System, the leads is called the five by two system, where for the first five days, you reach out to them twice a day and you change the medium in which you reach out. So the first one might be a text, and then later that day, they get a phone call, and the next day they get an email, and then you do a social media DM. And the reason for all the variety is that different people respond on different mediums, different strokes for different folks. So some people are more you're working professionals. Some people are spending their time on social, so they want to DM you. Other people have questions they want to get on a phone call. So for the first five days from opt in to reach out today from your sales team, again, it's got to start with some sort of prompt or question that is related to the problem and what they opted into. So whenever I'm building out lead nurture sequences, it all starts with a problem. But then before I make that problem, I'm reverse engineering what is my avatar struggling with so I can give them a solution to that problem for free. So you see how this all kind of beautifully comes together. This is the stuff that business owners who are spending a lot of time in their business, and they're doing the tasks, and they're the one answering the messages and doing the follow up, or they're on the calls, they can't spend time doing the strategy behind the scenes that makes the whole business run better. And so that's the difference between leading and doing. If you're in there doing things, leading you and your team. And this is a lesson I actually learned from the military world with Jocko Willink, the author of Extreme Ownership. He said he would come down on his team leaders, his squad leaders, who, if they were in a firefight, they actually would get in their guns, look in their scope, and they would shoot the bad guy. He's like, what were you doing? Why were you shooting? They're like what? We were under attack. He's like, that's not what a good squad leader does. Because your vision is impaired. You're in a scope, and you can't see around you. You need to be looking about, where can we go? And we can outmaneuver them and outflank them. How can we get higher ground? How can we cover and move toward them? How can we beat them? Because if we're looking at a scope, we're being outmaneuvered. We're being outweighed. And so he's like, you're being a bad leader. You're doing. And so I feel the same way about business. If you are taking calls, you're like, oh, I'm in the trenches. I'm with a team occasionally. But if you are doing that Monday through Friday, you're actually failing your team. You're failing your business. You're not leading it. You're doing so that's the shift.

Speaker A [00:51:15]:

That, again, looking at things from a much higher perspective, and sometimes that requires us to take a step back, to be able to see and have that wide peripheral vision of what's actually going on. The other thing that I like about this is, I suppose a concept of keeping it on the boil. You don't want to take that pot off the ball and let it go cold. Somebody has taken the time. They've in pain right now. They've opted into the offer that you've created for them. You've given them value. Now you want to keep them there. You want to keep that boil on the go rolling so that you can continue to build the relationship and build the trust. Like you mentioned earlier, a lot of sales come down to how much trust can that person have in you that you're able to deliver what you said you were going to deliver? What the reason that they've come to you? So if you can keep that on the boil, and you can meet them where they're at, so to speak, with whatever the medium is that is best for them to be able to consume the information or to continue. The conversation on, then using that five by two system and being able to keep that on the boil and keep the conversation going, you're also going to collapse time. You're going to be able to speed up the process in which the sales takes place. Whereas if that person just opted in, you said, Great, they've got the thing, and leave them to it. Like you mentioned a little bit earlier, you need to make sure that you close the zeal, that you actually make the sale. And it's the same concept. It doesn't matter whether it's face to face or it's online. You need to have a process in place so that you can actually make the sale and not just leave the person to the front door and say, thanks for coming. You got what you came for on your way. You want to continue that conversation and. Make sure that they come to you, that you're the person that can provide the solution to them. I love both of these processes because the whole concept around that Charm method and the Charm sales system in understanding what it is as a salesperson, you need to do. And if you just keep that acronym at the front forefront of your mind, you cannot go wrong making sure that you're able to put a smile on their face. You connect with them, that you're asking them for help. That you're able to connect with people, that you're able to then restate what their problems are by asking really good questions and then being able to restate those problems to them. And then, of course, make sure that you move forward and you're making the sale. And if you don't do it on the first round there and you're doing something online, then of course the Fortune follow up system, that's when that kicks in. And that five by two system, being able to do that in the first five days will get that person back and having a conversation with you pretty quick. Smart within that time frame, because they've already identified what their problem is. So in terms of these two systems, Dustin, I know that you have them available or you talk about these a lot more on your podcast, also through your book, and people are able to connect with you. What would you say for somebody who's listening today, who has gone, gosh, I need to brush up my sales skills? Where would you recommend that they go to continue the conversation with you?

Speaker B [00:54:39]:

Yeah, great question. And thank you again, Tracy, for having me talk about this stuff, because as you can see, I could go on and on for hours. I love this. And after 20 years of being a trainer and 13 years of being a gym owner, I don't think I'm better or smarter than anybody. These are just things that I've picked up along the way that I want to pass on so everybody else can experience some amazing success. But if you want to hear more of these strategies, I got them for days. I would pick up a copy of my book Reinforce Your Gym on Amazon Hardback paperback and Kindle. It's a best seller, and so I'd love to have you pick up a copy. But don't be fooled because it's called reinforce your gym. You might think it's just for gym owners. If you read these strategies with your business in mind, change the name of this book to reinforce your business, and it can be for any service or product. I've had multiple people out of the fitness industry grab a copy and say, I applied this system. And here's how it worked for me. I'm in pest control. I'm in HVAC, I'm an online coach. And they were able to see business growth. So that's one of the things that's helped my business, the most is sometimes I have hired coaches in industry and sometimes I got out of industry and they were able to see things I couldn't see. And then like you said, I have a podcast called Lunch with a Punch. And so that's for me to introduce or interview guests. And then if you want to connect with me on Facebook or Instagram, just search. My name Dustin Mogul. I love helping people with their business. So if you need help on your sales process or anything, just send me a DM. I'm happy to help. And again, I just want to give to the entrepreneurial space and the business owners, whether they're on the come up and they're just starting their business or they're looking to upgrade or improve and tweak what they have currently. I like working with people at all levels. So, yes, send me a DM. I'm happy to help.

Speaker A [00:56:29]:

I love that. Thank you so much for being generous with your time and your information today. There you have it guys. You can head on over to Amazon, get yourself a copy of the number one best selling book, Reinforced Your Gym. Like Dustin said, it's not just for gym owners, so just replace that word, gym with business. If you want to improve the sales in your business, that's the book for you. Also, you can tune into his podcast, Lunch With a Punch. And on that podcast he shares lots more tips, tools, resources to really help you guys excel in your own businesses and of course, connect with Dustin on any of the major social media platforms. I want to say thank you very much to those of you who have tuned in and listened today. If you picked up anything out of today's conversation with Dustin that you thought, gosh, I'm going to apply that to my business, I have absolutely no doubt that you have somebody else in your life who will also find this information useful. I want you to share it with your bestie. Share it with a business owner that you know of that also wants to increase the sales in their business. I'm sure they will get something out of today. And of course, I want to ask you guys if you have listened to today's session and you are struggling with anything in your business around sales or lead generation, please leave Justin and I a comment below. We'll be making sure that we get back to you guys. And of course, you can also connect with me, Tracy M. Wilson, on Facebook, Instagram and all the other social media platforms. I talk a lot about how to grow your business, how to create content that makes you go viral, and also that you're able to create content that you don't have to spend all your days and nights creating content across all your different social media platforms. So if that sounds like you, then you want to continue to follow me and continue to tune into The Unlocked Show. So as you guys know, I always leave the show with this message go and live your life unlocked because there is just no other way. I'll see you guys again next week for another episode of The Unlocked Show 10:00 a.m. Brisbane time. Until then, have a fantastic week and bye for now.