Inside Soccer
Inside Soccer
Very Special Guest Keith Tozer - Futsal, Indoor Soccer, and SUNY Oneonta Soccer Heritage
Special Guest, US Indoor Soccer and Futsal player and coaching legend Keith Tozer discusses the success of indoor soccer and the return of glory he believes will happen. Keith is a key member of the movement to grow Futsal in the United States and discusses the challenges and many opportunities this great discipline offers players and the game of soccer. Keith's success and accomplishment in soccer is nearly unmatched in this country, yet his college, SUNY Oneonta, has a long history of great soccer contributors coming from its campus.
Hello and welcome back. You're listening to another incredible episode of Inside soccer when your host bill Peterson inside soccer brings you a soccer fan expert analysis and opinion on the critical issues facing the game today. Awesome guests that have incredible stories and historical perspectives on the game. With soccer experience batting 20 A Rolodex is open to bring you the voices and opinions you want. Sit back at wherever you are in the world. And enjoy today's episode. Welcome inside soccer listeners. My name is Bill Peterson and this is inside soccer Episode 20. Who would have ever imagined we would have made it to 20. I want to thank everybody who joins us each week in and out from around the world. We appreciate you listening and we've got a great episode for you today. This episode is brought to you by topsport Solutions if you have a challenge topsport has a solution. Today we're going to go way out of my comfort zone. But discuss a topic that to me is is so obvious and should be at or near the top of every strategy and every planning conversation that goes on in the sport of soccer in this country or talking foot saw. And I almost guarantee you when we finish, you'll be as hyped about this sport as I am right now the opportunity to get more kids over balls is almost limitless. And the skills developed are extraordinary. Our guests a real builder the game on many levels for many years. And it's a long list. I'm only going to touch on a couple of the accomplishments 12 years as a professional player, the first MSL player ever drafted and if you can name a team without looking it up, I'll send you the shirt off my back because I would have never guessed this one but he was the first ever M is a player drafted 30 years or maybe more because I don't know where it stops and starts of coaching. More years even as a technical director the all time winningest coach in North American indoor soccer eight times named Coach of the Year drumroll please welcome the extraordinary Keith dozer, Keith, welcome to Inside soccer. Hey, Bill, it's great to be on the show. I love the first ever drafted player. That is a trivia question there. And we got to figure out a way to get it used more often. Can I throw hit? Yeah. Pete Rose was the owner. I didn't even know that. And he kicked out the opening ball. Ah, I love p rose. Yeah, it was great. Actually. A year ago, I got a FedEx package. And I opened the FedEx package and it was that simple. It It was it one of his jerseys signed by him. He sent some really nice things on it. But yeah, it's interesting first year 1978 actually, so we end up talking about I grew up in western pa we end up talking about football a lot of times and the influence the Steelers had on me and others in western pa and and the Pirates won two World Series in the 70s. But everyone when they got on base was Pete Rose. Everyone was Charlie hustle everyone started sliding into the bag headfirst had to get dirty, you know, the whole thing. I was a he was he was legend. He was a legend. I remember back when Pittsburgh was winning it was we our family. Right? Yeah. 79 Myron cope. Yep, created created the terrible, terrible title. And I was playing there. I actually owe the tribe. I think I was bought from Hartford to Pittsburgh. And my agent called me up and said, by the way, you're going to Pittsburgh? I don't like Pittsburgh. What's in Pittsburgh? And you know, Bill, I actually fell in love with the city. Yeah, I mean, as cities all great wood buildings, but it's the people that make it. And that was a beer and a shot. That was a sports orientated ethnic, tell it like it is. I mean, I had such a wonderful time to learn to lie. Yeah, no. And there's still there's still some of that there. I don't get back as often as I'd like to but you know, it was everything was much simpler back then everybody worked hard. Everybody played hard. Everybody loves their teams. And and we are so fortunate, you know, to have both the pirates and the Steelers winning championships throughout the 70s. It was it was a great time to be a sports fan and, and to live in that area. But man today influence a lot of kids. I mean, every day we were out playing and rep, you know, sort of replicating the moves and the lineups and all that have depending on what season it was. So it was it was a cool time for sure. Can I tell you something very interesting about that franchise? Yeah. And I had them on my show. In April, it's the front office was run by a guy named Chris Wright. Chris then went on to be the president of the Minnesota Timberwolves for 20 years. And he is the president of Minnesota FC and MLS. Now, another guy in that office who sold group tickets for Chris in our franchise. His name is Lenny Komorowski. Oh, he's been. He's been the president of the Cleveland cast for 1520 years. And wait, I'm not done. There is a guy who also sold tickets and he was part of the PR program. And his name was john paul dela Kaymer. Wow. Fox Sports so yeah, you had three guys right there. Yeah. Amazing. So you're cutting into one of my questions I was gonna ask anyway, I had it on the margin. But did you come across to named ally wiki brothers in the indoor days? Oh, sure. Tim at Todd and Terry, and actually they're on my show. And it was amazing, because it's he Tim is up in Seattle. Yeah. NHL team, obviously. Well, Todd's the president of the team and Tim's running the company that's building the arena. That's correct. Okay. So they all came in even Terry. So I had Tim Terry and Todd on the show. And and obviously, back in Kansas City days, when Todd and Tim with the comments, they actually brought music to the game of indoor soccer before went to the NBA, and NHL and NFL. And from there the lasers to fog in the music, then was born mazing story. It was. So we're deep into this. This is Episode 20. Inside soccer. I'm on Question four. We haven't even got to the introduction yet. We're talking about indoor soccer before we get to footsie all our guests, Keith Ozer was the first ever draft choice of an indoor team that we know came from Cincinnati, you need to guess the name of the team. And we're talking about indoor soccer here. So it was you know, I was fortunate enough to work with Tim for six years in Los Angeles and we were gathering MLS teams like people gather acreage, and you know, the stories that would come back about their indoor days are always captivating to me, because it was really, you know, there was a lot of barnstorming there, there was a lot of plowing snow or shoveling snow, depending on what city were in. There was a lot of work and, you know, the old photos in Kansas City of them down into literally literally in the boiler room. Working. Did you know Dan counts? Do you know Dan counts? Okay, so Dan was the president of the rapids when I first joined eg. And Dan, you said he played for Tim in Baltimore. And he would tell these stories. And I don't know that he actually appreciated it, you know, as much as maybe he does now. But he would talk about everyday practices and and and Tim, like, Hey, I got the net and the balls in the trunk, let's go. And he is set up shop on some corners, start kicking balls and selling tickets. And, you know, that's, that was the spirit of it. And it was amazing. But one of the one of the questions I did have for you, I love the history. I love digging into it a little bit. I'm not as good as I'd like to. But it amazes me that the indoor teams and some of the early NASL teams, etc. They found the soccer hubs. And it seems like today, sometimes we really struggle with finding where the fan bases are. Is there is there some rhyme or reason? Do you have a theory on why or how they were able to do that? I mean, Cincinnati, I mean, and it's dormant forever. And now it's back and it's drawing great. It's incredible. I still don't know why somebody's not in Baltimore. But it seems like that would be a place as well, that had great indoor success. And there's these other pockets of places that performed well or or supported teams very well back in the early days indoor and outdoor, and then we sort of forgot about it, but when you go back to them, they do very well. Well, you know, you have so many great owners back then and and obviously so many great owners now. And that old saying it always starts at the top. Go to LA I was fortunate enough to coach la lasers for three plus years. And that was Jerry buss and Jim buss at the LA Lakers. And it was great to Jim texted me last night after they won. And he said one more to go. And then obviously the LA Galaxy then came there after the lasers. And they've done quite well. You know, you had the bar to lows in Pittsburgh and also in San Francisco. And, you know, those became hotbeds of soccer. Cincinnati, like you said, you know, our team actually did quite well, Riverfront Coliseum. And, you know, because Pete left and went to Philadelphia, the team folded But years later, you know, guys came back there. So it's really has a lot to do with that ownership group. And then the people that the ownership group knows look at James Kavanaugh, he played for me in LA, I traded him in St. Louis, he became a billionaire. And he just bought the MLS team in St. Louis. And honestly, we know the history behind St. Louis. And, and, you know, he hires, you know, some guys to play for the steamer. So, you know, it really starts with the top donorship group that people you know, and the people that they bring in. Well, and those were days, when people really were barnstormers, they were ticket sales people. You know, when I think about Clyde NASL is, when I worked for the NFL, I mean, Lamar Hunt would call me from Kansas City into Amsterdam, and go, Hey, Billy got a good idea to sell tickets. I'm just checking with everybody, you know, he was, he was at a place, he didn't need to do that, in my opinion. But he knew it was still about filling the seats. And he was it was a promoter at heart, and he wanted people in the stands. And that's what he focused on. That's what he worked on, at least in my interactions with them. And there were so many of those guys that they had really understood. You know, how to get out in the streets, and how to shake a hand and how to convince somebody to part with their money and buy a ticket. And today, and I'll say this, you know, too many people, I think, believe they're going to convince someone through a computer to go to a game or a match. And I think you've got to get out in the streets, you got to get out there. You got to be part of the community. You got to touch people as athletes and coaches and all that. And you know, that's how you get it going till you hit it right, right down the middle. But 300 yards because Chris, right, Lenny, Tim, Todd, and Terry, all set in that zoom call was back then when they came up with the promotion. And Pittsburgh was the first team in any sport to do the Ford sodas, the for popcorn support tickets for hotdogs. And they said when they came up with the promotion, it wasn't a couple hundred on Twitter and go put it on Facebook, you had to go make Listen to this. You had to go make a flyer. And then then then you had to take those flyers and you had to get players. And you have to say, hey, you're gonna go to churches and schools and sit in a corporation in a factory at lunchtime. And you're going to hand out the flyers. And those all those men said that indoor soccer, kind of like minor league baseball, kind of like baseball was a proving ground for your imagination as a promoter. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So those were fun days, those were. I love that stuff. That's, that's great stuff. But we got to move on because we got a bigger topic here. And that is that his foot saw. I I don't want to over be too dramatic here. But I think this is one of the the best buys out there that nobody's seeing, you know. And when I came back to the US in 2000, worked for AG, one of the first things I saw that I thought was a great opportunity was the Mexican national team in the United States. It was being run. Basically, I forget how it was being run, but it was being run and there wasn't really a plan behind it other than how much cash can we get on any given night. We went in took a year and a half got the deal done. At ag we ran a team until it was too successful then MLS got it. But that was the last great property I saw that was underdeveloped. This one I think fits all is in the same place. And so what I want to try to do today is get my head around it give our listeners a chance to better understand it and understand from you who you know, you live it day in day out. Where's it going? What's it going to take? And what's it going to look like in a few years. So maybe we start off with with with how you got involved with it. So we've talked a little bit about your your role as a player and a coach. And I do want to come back to that. We'll do it at the end and talk about some of the great players and coaches you've worked with and saw in the past. But let's move to foots on. How did you get there? You know, I played in Pittsburgh, and for six years I left Pittsburgh to become a player coach for the Louisville thunder. Because I knew that after I was done playing I needed to do something else. So I was kind of like the GM of team operations. I was the coach when I was a player. And my ex coach john Kowalski, who was my coach in Cincinnati, in Hartford in Pittsburgh, became the national team coach and FIFA in 1986. started the first they didn't call it football then started the first world five aside invitation tournament in Budapest, Hungary. So john said, A Keith, I'd like for you to come and try out for this for the national team. And I said, Well, you know, I'm up in Milwaukee. When playing a game when I can come to New York, listen, I don't know if you know some of these guys. I said, john just put us five guys on the court. So it was Zorn sabich, who's been the assistant coach for Kansas City. For years, Mike windish men who national team outdoor, Jimmy cupbearer, who won on the star, you know, with the national team outdoor, obviously, Washington in the Women's League, AJ laka wiki and goal and he put us all on the court and we did on bill up and Chris Allen can. So next thing you know, I was in Budapest and fell in love with footsteps. And then spring forward. I had the opportunity to become an interim coach for john because he was coached in Miami and MLS. So he went to the first CONCACAF qualifiers, and we won the gold medal. And next thing and I became the head coach and did that for 20 years, but fell in love with the game, very similar to indoor soccer and of course, is a great developer for outdoor players. So I think a lot of people may know this, but just in case they don't, how is foots all structured within us soccer? Well, that's an interesting question. Ah, there is no coach in education for foot saw within us soccer. There is coach in education within us youth football, which is a member of US Soccer, which I'm the technical director for, right? Oh, the only team that US Soccer has, as a national team, or foot saw is the men's national team. So there's no women teams, there's no youth teams. The da used to have some foot stall showcases, but they discarded that and I could talk to you for an hour in that. So the only thing they have right now is is the men's national team coached by one of the former players and I don't work who was the goalkeeper of the tournament in CONCACAF championships, but you know, recently I was with Anson Dorrance at North Carolina using foot. So as part of his identification camp down there. And then Ansan and I did something together, which was standing room only at the coach's convention in Baltimore. And he says, Oh, my God, football is the game changer. You know, and, and but US Soccer hasn't bought into it yet. So hopefully you'll find it. Is there a reason for that? You think? Is it just priorities? Or is it people don't understand a game or there's not enough attention? Whoa, how can that be? I mean, it's a large organization. There's no doubt about it. But But how can it be? Again, like we talked about different cities being successful, and I said, owners and people who they bring in, it's the same thing. Hugo Saito, his son, like good coach used to coach UCLA. Hugo when he worked for CONCACAF. He was a foot sound guy. Yeah. So he, man, we were doing coaching education in the Concord camp. We were doing competition, and you go left, and foots all left, basically. Okay. I mean, you're still football, but it's not what it used to be. There's no one within us soccer family, other than the two coaches to sign an auto that our football Guys, if we could get someone in US Soccer, and have them buy into it. I told you this, when we were talking about if you a soccer give me $5 million, we'd start a program in the inner cities and urban areas around the country. And we would bring foot saw to every basketball court and foot saw court. And I guarantee you, I guarantee you, we would find some special players. I have to believe that I mean, I think it's it's it's even easier now to play, then organized in club soccer just because of the expense and everything that's involved and the time and the energy and the travel and everything else to play the high level. Here you've got, and I believe this I don't have any research and I'm not involved in the organization. But you know, if you look at the population centers, and how many great players we get from the population centers, and compare that to other sports, I think soccer is way behind. And part of it is obviously you know, the fields and the NA facilities let's just call facilities and this would start to address some of that plus and I hope I'm okay saying this but a lot of our inner city populations will understand football much better than the people you know, here where I'm at today. Because they've come from different places in the world that actually you know, recognize it or play it more often. But even if you don't know anything about it, if you roll a ball out to a bunch of kids, they're gonna figure it out. You know, I played hockey growing up a little Along with football, baseball was typical American. But when I went into indoor soccer, I felt comfortable. It was, yeah, artificial turf. But I kind of understood the boards and knew where the penalty box was. And I felt great. And, and maybe some of the young players, both boys and girls in the inner city, they feel comfortable on a court that's not four by 54 or 100. By by 60. And again, you know, I told you to that, you know, we went to Akron in the inner city, and I don't work built up foot soft court there. And in three hours have to watch and gum kids who never touched the soccer ball, I could have put a list together to set them like I'd watch them, watch them, watch them. And part of that $5 million bill, it would be that we would find young people and give them money for education. So if you would go to Detroit and LA and Baltimore, Miami and say, by the way, we're coming there to identify some young players in a foot soft court, and the top players that we find there's going to be money for you for education, I'm guaranteeing you, we would have lines out the door. Yeah, I tend to agree with that. I mean, there's just it's just seems so obvious to get more people involved. And there may not be even the school systems, the public school systems that that you know, are struggling right now, with the high cost of everything, including sports programs, here's one where you already have facilities built, and you basically need some balls, and I guess some uniforms, right? And, and that's it, and off we go. And the amount of people that you could impact positively by giving them you know, a team situation, allowing them to develop physical skills, keeping them off the street, you know, have a sense of pride at home, because they're part of a team, there's just the list, as long as you know, Keith, and it just seems obvious to me that it's like, you know, soccers, leaving the school systems, at least everywhere I've been in the last 1520 years. And it's moving to the clubs. And you know, I've got different feelings about that. But I do believe we lose opportunities to expose people to the game when it leaves the high school, or it's not important at the high school level, or it's looked down upon. And here's a chance to do something with a sport that you know, stands on its own, and is a positive again and brings people into the game. You know, who's trying to do that as Anson Anson is trying to get foot solid, all the elementary and secondary schools in the state of North Carolina. And basically, like you said, there's gyms, there's tennis courts, there's basketball courts, all you need is a couple football goals and a ball and you're off and running. And and you know, in 2007 bill, I don't know if you know the story, the Solomon Islands FA got together and said, Hey, by the way, guys, we're going to really win the outdoor World Cup. I don't know. But maybe we can do something in the football world. And here's the great story about this, and get young people off the street and save lives, and maybe create a better outdoor player as we go along this journey. 2008 they qualify 2012. They won Oceana for the Football World Cup. They didn't score any goals. They won in 2016. They won a game at the World Cup. And in 2020, before the pandemic, they were winners of Oceana, and some of their players have gone on to play professional outdoor in Europe. You know what happened? Some of the other islands said, Hey, by the way, what Solomon Islands can do so Bora Bora, New Zealand, Australia. Now Trinidad Tobago, and it's it's spreading. I mean, it's here and I think it's exciting as you can tell that my voice is there. Is there a commitment from Kaka calf, because this seems to fit right in with with them too? Well, you know, when you go left, we we took a step back before when he was there, there was a bunch of us that were down in Costa Rica, and we're putting together the first ever kick calf coaching manuals together. And then it kind of fits out. There's great, but the amount of Costa Rica, right. They have professional leagues now in foot style. So it's still there. But you know, Brazil, obviously is huge. Argentina, Spain as the top Pro League in the world, Russia, Iran, Japan. I mean, it's it's everywhere. So Hugo, I exchanged some emails with him a few weeks ago, I didn't realize he had retired I'd been out of touch with him for a year or two. But when I first went to a G, I brought Hugo on as an advisor for soccer. And you're going on as an advisor for soccer. And Hugo, we talked I talked about the Mexican national team. That's really that's really all Hugo because Hugo said, Look, if you really want to get it There's something and make some money. Here's a property that's, you know, underdeveloped if you will, and I used to take them to Mexico we used to go I think almost every week, and he'd go with me and you know, in his quiet way to always be right behind me going, you know, Bill, maybe you want to think about this, maybe you want to think about that. None of that gets done including the MLS owning that property today without Hugo Saucedo. So he's meant a lot to me. He's always been a wise man and a funny guy to once you get to know him, but boy, he, he, yeah, he he's, he's dedicated his entire life to the game. So I'm glad to hear you bring up his name. I'm sad to see that it goes away a little bit, though, because your Solomon Islands story is exactly what you know, a lot of these places in CONCACAF, neat, and godly, golly, I mean, that would be it'd just be, you know, the struggles, as you well know. And a travel costs gone from island Island and, you know, moving around and doing things that it's not easy to do. It's not like driving from Florida to Georgia. But boy, that would make sense if you had a smaller travel team and different parties and easier on the facilities. And you know how hard it is for them to keep up facilities, when especially in this time of the year when there's a storm, but every other week, but yeah, and one of the things that happened the last 10 years is when all the top players in the world, got into social media and said, By the way, I am who I am, because in my country I grew up playing footsie up, you know, when that always was like a stamp I remember years ago, when Brazil played the United States at Giants Stadium, I did a foot saw seminar for 200 coaches for US Soccer at the end of their outdoor thing. And you know, the end of a convention, everybody just wants to get out. So these guys, they want to go drink beer, they want to go see the game. And I said, Hey, just give me a few minutes. I said if you know, if there was a product out there, that was very cheap to make your players better physically, mentally, tactically? Would you buy it? And they all looked at me like, okay, so I said, I have it. And I put foot saw up on a big screen. And I said, by the way, there's four guys that are gonna play against the USA team tonight, who came from just just came from footsie up, and they mark that was his first game for Brazil. Okay, and Brazil beat the United States three, nothing. And I was I told them, hey, you're gonna see this, and you're gonna see that they do these things. And then after the game before the game, not many people wanted to talk to him after the game. A lot of people want to talk. But I'm hoping that you as your soccer buys into it, I think it's the fast track to find different players. I think it's it's a great game on its own. There is a little lineage here between Anson and the president. So maybe now's the time to take advantage of that right. And I understand they're going through some some resetting of the strategy. I don't know what that means. But it's might be a good time for him to whisper in someone's ear in Chicago that this would be a great alternative. And you know, even for the foundation, I mean, the foundation, and again, I'm not up to speed with all their activities. But for a long time, they were talking about doing some things in inner cities, and I don't know what they've done or not done. But building a regulation size, soccer pitch, and maintaining it, you know, and not putting people under so much duress to maintain it. Whether it's grass or turf is a huge, huge effort and timely and costly over the years, not just one time cost here. God you could take up all these old tennis courts are being used and gymnasiums that have free time. There's just so many opportunities again, by a ball, let's go, Oh, that's what they've done. Because as you said, US Soccer foundation mantra after the World Cup years ago, said let's go to inner city build outdoor fields get the inner city player to come in about. First of all, it's too expensive. You can't find space to put a big field. And you already alluded to the fact it who's going to take care of it, you know, it gets damaged and you got to grow grass. So they turn big time. And now they're building they call it many pitches. You can call it anything you want. But they're building many pitches all over the country ideas and targets and they're going to do 100 of them each. So US Soccer foundation now is building basically foot saw courts instead of outdoor courts, and you're gonna see a big ripple effect down the road. Yeah, now they need to come back with some coaching and a little bit of promotion for the sport. I mean, you know, that's that's a huge opportunity for I, they've done a wonderful job. They, they've been at the US Soccer. I mean USC coaches convention, they had a different field there. They call it mini foot saw, I would love I mean, mini pitch, I would love for them to call football. But again, call whatever you want. Kids are playing, right? kids are playing, getting kids off the street, and the physicality I love about it. Look, look at the NBA player right now. You know, 20 years ago, when you were 6867 you're like the big man in the court. Right? And you didn't move that you moved? Well, but guys now Okay, so 687 feet, they move like they're six, two. And why? Because they play in a small court. And it creates a different physicality in the player. So yeah, physicality, speed. You know, just just just ball football skills. You know, it's tight. I've watched it, it's it's, it's got a lot going on for it, that's for sure. And would be an incredible development tool. My daughter, people get tired hear about my daughter, she played one year, and that was sort of it. I don't know what I don't know if that is on us or on the organization, whatever. But it didn't seem to be offered again. It was hard. It was hard. It was not something I would say that the kids all enjoyed, right out of the gate. But man, it was, you know, from from a development standpoint, you can see all the things that it was doing to to help them become better players and just to be free thinkers as well. You know, it's 100%. Yeah, yeah. Here's what a lot of the guys in MLS say who came from the indoor game. They all say that they wish some of their players that go play indoor soccer or football for one year, because you become a better defender. Now I travel the country. Before the pandemic so much I go to so many different cities to teach, Bill, so many of our young players do not know how to defend by themselves. So if you don't know how to defend by yourself, how do you defend with one other player who's a cover player? And if those two don't know how to defend, how do you defend with three and four? So what indoor soccer and football does, it teaches you how to defend by yourself, you know which way to press? What's the speed of your opponent? You knees? Not like? I mean, all these little things that they teach in basketball. Yeah. And, and I think, I think the more we get it, the better we're going to beat for it. Hey, you know what, here's the thing. What do we got to lose? Right? I mean, we didn't qualify for the last World Cup. And that's okay. I mean, it's very daunting everything. But what do we got to lose? throw throw a bunch of money in the foot. So say, let's go create a different player, let's do something different, along with everything else we're doing. And maybe Christian pulisic grew up in the indoor soccer and football? Oh, yeah, I look, it's an opportunity. There's, there's more than enough money in the sport in this country, that's for sure. $5 million, is a rounding error. And there's, there's programs they can even they don't even know they're running that cost more than that, probably. But you could you could invest that money and be one of the top countries in the world, in the sport. And that's I think the Federation should be looking at is, is there an opportunity, not just to be there, but if I'm the Federation, is there an opportunity to be you know, one of the top countries in the world and the only way to do that is develop, you know, the systems down below and the players in the development and the coaching and everything else? And then we become one of top countries. So can we do that? Yes, we can for what is you know, pretty small amount of money compared to some of the other programs. And by the way, it is an Olympic organization. I know. You know, the there's a separation there was soccer versus some other sports. But this one could also, I guess, I don't play in the Olympics. That's too bad. Because that could have been a great Olympic sport, actually, actually, in 2007 foot saw was in the Pan American Games, right? You know, and I was coaching a team and go see baseball. I love baseball, not a big crowd. I go see diving at a big crowd. I go see fencing or track and everything, you know, okay, crowds, the foot saw was standing wrongly every game. Every game standing in Rio de Janeiro, the following a Pan American Games, I believe was in Toronto, or Mexico. And we said hey, for sure it's going to be there. They dropped it now. Soccer and foot saw was in the Junior Olympics. Okay, and Argentina just recently, and it was sold out every game. Well, you know, the same in the US. There's going to need to be some some people like yourself, and Anson and others, you know, really put their arms around this and and march into the halls and say, Look, there's a reason to do this. And people believe in it. They want to do it. Same thing for the Olympic movement. Yeah, I mean, it's all political. The great news is, it's soccer. Seems like that right now would be something that's more attractive around the rest of the world, then some other things I could think of. So anyway, yeah, you got to get a group behind it, you got to push forward. Let me ask you this question. Why the lack of women? And I'm afraid I know the answer this, but I want to hear yours first. Why aren't the women playing? That's a great question. You know, three, four years ago, Ali long called me and said, coach, do we have a national team for women? And I sent out unfortunately, don't, she said, Well, I'm on the computer, and Iran has it. Malaysia as it China as it Russia has it. And we're the world champion, how come we don't have one? And I'm like, I don't know. And, and there is so many other women that that are former teammates and her current teammates of her and said, gotta be great to have a football program. And you know, the story behind it is, you know, when she left North Carolina, I mean, she won a national championship, she couldn't get to the national team. I don't know if you know that story. But now, her boyfriend would play foot South four to five nights a week in New York City, for these games, that if you got the championship, you made a bunch of money. And in the semi final of the game of the tournament, a player got ejected, another player got hurt. And the coach said, Hey, Holly, you got your equipment with you, we'd love to have you playing the final. And she played in the final, she went on to play five or six men's games every week in New York City. And it changed her game in the mid 20s. And by the way, she hosted the World Cup trophy in France. So I, again, I don't have an answer. I and by the way, I think an answered said the same thing. We think that if we had a woman's national team foot so that we would catapult to one of the top teams in the world, in a very short period of time, and maybe many years, I don't know, no disrespect, because there's wonderful women's teams around the world, and maybe become the world world champion in football, too. I wouldn't put it past the women of this country, I, you know, I don't wanna get too philosophical. But the rest of the world is starting to play women's soccer, more so in the last decade than than ever before. And the next decade, you're going to see the emergence of some countries that maybe didn't exist in the 90s or early 2000s, as powerhouses. And it's nice that we are, you know, where we are in that in that in that lineup, but we got to keep pressing. And and This, to me seems like if I was responsible for the future of women's soccer, this seems like a good strategy to help develop players create a larger pipeline for those players, maybe develop skills that guess what the women in other parts of the world are developing, that maybe we're not some of the stuff you just talked about. I wouldn't leave a stone unturned and rest on our laurels here. And I think this is just a great example. And also just the right thing to do. I mean, we have the best women's soccer in the world right now. Why would we play you know, why not? I think Women's Soccer is just fabulous in this country. And you know, I knew I knew Anson and Anson and I would talk, but I never spent any time with dance. And and a year and a half ago, he invited me to North Carolina, I stayed at his house. I really got to know him. And resending in his kitchen. The second day I was there and having a cup of coffee with him and his wife. And I said, you know what's amazing about you coach, and he says, What's that? He goes, You have won 25 national championships. And you think that foot sell is going to be the game changer for the US and for your team to stay above the next person. And we have people who haven't won anything who don't believe in it. And to me, and that's the opening statement I said at the coach's convention, when sacrament puts on incident I did something together. I said to the crowd, with no disrespect. If this man who's who's created me a ham and Ollie long, and all the other wonderful players for the national team through North Carolina, if he believes in it, and he's won championships. What have we won, and why don't we and what do you have to lose? Yeah, well said. And that's exactly what it's gonna take. It's gonna take someone like him with people like you working together to really drive this and push it through. But it's such a big country. We face challenges because we're so big, but it is a growing soccer nation. And we better give the kids an opportunity to play and play often and play well or we'll lose them to something else in the future. So Wow. I told you I was gonna get hyped up I am. I just see I just see opportunities blinking before my eyes here. And I hope I hope it happens. I it's exciting. It's fun to watch. It's quick. You're right. You know, it's the indoor game. I wish that would pick up as well. Why do you think that ultimately went away? I think it's coming back. And I'll tell you why. Again, back in the early days of indoor soccer, we've already mentioned it as a borrower Lowe's and the Kenny Stearns and the bus family. And there were some wonderful owners. I mean, look at MLS now. I mean, Don Garber actually done and I went to the same college graduated in the same year. And God has done an unbelievable job with Major League Soccer. And I think that indoor soccer lost its way a little bit I thought, I thought it lost this message that it is a developer a player look at Preki practice, the only two times back to back MVP of Major League Soccer, and he played 12 years in indoor soccer. I think indoor soccer lost their message. I think if they gain the message back of what it does, what a great game. It's on its own. And it's blending with football right now. And the ownership group that they have now is getting better and better and better. I think you're gonna see big things happening in the indoor soccer and in the P FL, which is I'm the Commissioner of that one. And we haven't started yet. I mean, Donnie Nelson, president of Mavericks, Mark Cuban, the Jim buss has franchises. You know, hopefully once the P FL starts, this is all going to blend together and we're going to create great books. Wendy is saying when do you think that'll begin? You know, Bill, this this pandemic thing just really through, right, we've done we've done four or five great events in Dallas at the Dr. Pepper arena. At the psychic arena. We did it. Wild World of Sports actually where the NBA is playing the finals right now. We bought the two best players in the world record Dino and Falco and brought 22 players from around the world for an event there and it was sold out. So with the pandemic I don't know but I hope soon I think indoor soccer I think foot saw has a big market I think it's going to grow and I think with outdoor soccer with with Don's doing Major League Soccer. It'll all funnel to the national team. And when it does that, then you got your pyramid, which is what you want and then you're gonna win World Championships. Yeah, I mean, there's a player development side is also a fan development Simon and not every city is going to have an MLS team and you know for them to avoid the region ality of maybe the NHL, you know, having a separate league that plays for trophies, not not a minor league, a separate League, an indoor League, having football, leagues, all that just to entertain and develop fans. seems to me like that would make sense. I mean, I would love to watch good indoor soccer, I would go I would pay money to do that just because of the pace and the skills and you're sitting right on top of it. You know, it's just, it's just different. It's, it would be fun to do. I think the future is bright, I think the game of foot saw it's growing rapidly. Again, the pandemic came on. Hopefully indoor soccer will do something after the new year with the pandemic going, you know, we have a World Cup for foot saw, we have Confederation championships, there is say, Your wife is great. They have a Champions League. They have a European Championship, they you know, all the top teams in Europe football teams. Yep. So, you know, hopefully sooner or later, it's going to come the United States. Wow. Uh, you know, we talked about it, we could do this all day. I think we could continue to talk about it, but the Time Is Flying by Keith. And we probably need to try to find a way to wrap this up. So let me ask you a couple questions. And do it sort of quick fire style. Let's go back to your playing and coaching days in indoor soccer. Who is who is the best player you ever saw in person? played against that too. So? Yes and no. Steve zankel. Okay. Steve's gonna tell you why. Hector marinero and And perky and Broncos some gota those guys had great shots. You had Eric grass mucin and Chico Baja. Those guys were great one or one players. Then you had guys like Paul child, young Goossens. Julie v core greater on the box. songul had all those. He was a tough guy tomorrow. And who's the best player you've seen in television or watched or coached against? Oh my god, there are so many great players. I mean, to name one. Yep, I think would be extremely difficult. I mean, and there's so many young players come look at golf. There's so many great young players coming up in the golf game. There's just so many great young players come in and outdoors. So, you know, we talk to Lars and Ronaldo and your messies move on. They're all psychic. It's actually kind of like being in a at a, what do you call a nightclub? It's like one of those guys move on. They just opened the door and a, someone else comes in? Like, that's a great analogy. You know, I just wouldn't want to single one out, but Okay, fair enough. All right. All right. Let's keep moving. Oh, no, that's fine. That's fine. We don't hold anybody under pressure here. The most important trait for a pro coach. Wow. Eye for talent and the ability to teach. Yep. I couldn't agree more with that. We're down to the last two. Is there anything we should have asked you that we didn't I have a podcast called the world. Yes. And and where do people find that? They can go you know, I art they can go to Apple iTunes they anywhere you find your podcasts, you can go to it. I this is your 20th show. I think you're doing such an awesome job bill. You know, I've done over 100 they're not easy. I love your format. And I've had ansin I've had Ollie long. I've had Landon Donovan. You know, there's been the top players and coaches from around the world. And it's kind of like Netflix. Right. That's what's great about podcasts and go back to a podcast and you can go all the way back to season one. Yeah, well the foot song. Yeah. Okay, well the foot saw I'll be tuned in I've got the page saved on my computer already. Last question. Keith. Any great stories you want to share with our listeners or story? No, you know it's it's I was blessed when I went to Oneonta state because they there's so many great coaches and players that came from Oneonta Glen moochie. marnik oh yeah wellness from from Hardwick fruit curry. She was a teammate of mine and Oneonta Francisco, Marcus ow Miller, Don Garber. The list goes on and on. And by the way, there's 10 1520 more people that have come out of Oneonta that are involved in the game. I was blessed to go there. That was something that I was just a typical American playing a bunch of sports and really focused on soccer and wasn't a reason for that. Were people going there because of soccer and then coming out or once they got there they're being converted. I you know, Al Miller coach that Hartwick? You know, he brought in some great coaches he brought in Jimmy Lennox and and then Francisco Marcus. He actually got me involved on the US team in a in a youth tournament. That's why I went to Oneonta. And then I think just one thing led to another and back then Hartwick and Oneonta are some of the top teams in the country. And and people just wanted to go and play there. I mean, the Hall of Fame used to be their soccer Hall of Fame. So that's right. I, I got so many stories. But I have to say I've met so many wonderful men and women involved in this game from the youth through the pros to the Nationals, that I've been blessed to be a part and a small part of all this. Well, we appreciate having you on and you are one of the the true builders of the sport in this country. I know I and our listeners really enjoy listening to those stories. It's the purpose of this podcast is to to find the people who roll up their sleeves and go out every day and try to make it better and have made it better. And you are you are a leader that group so so let me wrap this up, Keith, one we appreciate you being on today. What a great episode. You've made my week you've brought myself and all of our listeners so much new information a lot to think about. It's exactly why we created inside soccer. So we want to thank you for that for our listeners. Please keep listening and share with your friends and the groups that you're involved with all of these episodes. Make sure that anyone you know, knows what we're doing here and check us out and follow us or like us, whatever may be on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and other social platforms. We'll keep talking. We'll keep taking you Inside soccer and we appreciate you Until next time. Thank you.