Pack Talk Podcast

#162 4 Dogs That Were Days From Euthanasia | How to Stop Dog Aggression

• Canine Revolution Dog Training

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Four dogs. Four bite histories. Four families who were told euthanasia was the only humane option left. All four of those dogs are alive today. Four of our trainers break down exactly what caused the aggression, exactly what they changed, and how to stop dog aggression before it ever gets to that point.

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🔥 WHAT YOU'LL LEARN:

✅ What causes dog aggression and why it seems to come out of nowhere

✅ Reactive dog vs aggressive dog: how to tell which one you have

✅ The dog bite warning signs almost every owner misses

✅ Why punishing a growl creates a dog that bites with no warning

✅ How basket muzzle training keeps everyone safe during rehab

✅ A 5-step dog aggression plan you can start using today

Fear, pain, resource guarding, and leash frustration cause most aggressive dog behavior. Learn to read dog aggression body language and you can stop a bite before it happens. Which of these four dogs sounded the most like yours? Tell us in the comments.


Questions This Episode Answers:

Can pain cause aggression in dogs?

Why is my dog suddenly aggressive?

Can dog aggression be cured?

Is resource guarding the same as aggression?

Is growling always a sign of aggression?

When should I see a behaviorist for dog aggression?


Canine Revolution Dog Training runs aggression assessments, Board and Train, and private coaching out of our academy in Dorchester, South Carolina, serving Summerville, Charleston, and Mount Pleasant, plus virtual coaching anywhere in the country.


⏱️ TIMESTAMPS:

00:00 - 4 dogs that were days from euthanasia

01:42 - The Dog That Made Trainer Chris Nervous

18:15 - Trainer Danny's German Shepherd Case

35:08 - The Reactive Dog That Trainer Jacy Trained


👀WATCH NEXT:

📺 Dog Body Language : Dog Body Language 101: What Your Dog is REALLY Trying to Tell You — https://youtu.be/GeFzkht6mzw?si=eUKlU9ZYaPLpZoLJ

📺 Socializing Reactive Dog : How to Socialize Your Reactive Dog — https://youtu.be/bo66a0S8k1M?si=knfJM4vryKwhY7SX

📺 E Collar for Beginners : E Collar Training: A Beginner's Guide to Safe & Effective Use — https://youtu.be/BJYHZEkNTnQ?si=PaaK_bltBh6cjjb6


#CanineRevolution #DogTraining #DogAggression #ReactiveDog #ResourceGuarding


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Pack Talk Podcast by Canine Revolution Dog Training

Video versions of podcasts on the Pack Talk Podcast and Canine Revolution Dog Training YouTube channel

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SPEAKER_00

Welcome to Pac Talk Podcast, episode 162. In the last episode that I did, we talked about our 12-step training progression. If you haven't listened to that podcast, we are going to be referencing our 12-step training progression today because I've got all of the K9 Revolution dog training trainers. I've got Chris, the lead trainer, Danny and JC professional dog trainers. They're going to tell stories about some of the crazy dogs they've trained in their time as a dog trainer. And if you're listening to these stories and you're maybe hearing them talk about your own dog, you might need to give us a call, right? You can schedule a discovery call with us or go to our YouTube channel and learn more about our progression and how to help your dog. But with that being said, Chris, our lead trainer, I I accidentally forgot your Skittles today. And I I usually uh have Skittles for you. I've got donuts for you, Chris. Think about the donuts. I just did uh we just recorded the Snake Aversion training debrief video, and I did talk about the guy that was there that did the donut eating contest with Chris. You know what I'm talking about? With the GSP. Him and Chris did the donut eating contest. I ate a donut and I ate a donut. That's what happened. Oh boy. So today we're telling some stories about real dogs. These are not fictional, right, Danny? They're not fictional stories. So Chris. Because you said they were fictional earlier. Alright, Chris, let's start off with you with your story.

SPEAKER_04

Alright. So this uh this this dog that I trained was the only dog up to up to date that I've actually feared. Uh feared for my own safety. Uh an extremely dominant dog. Arguably the largest and most powerful dog that I've ever I've ever handled. Um, you know, I've had, you know, we could say, you know, Great Dane is larger, but this dog was just thick. Big, powerful, powerful. Easily 120. Easily, probably possibly more. At least 150. Uh powerful, uh, explosive, stamina, you name it.

SPEAKER_00

So when you say that this dog is the did you say the the only dog that you've ever really feared? Yes. What does that mean to what does that mean?

SPEAKER_04

I mean, so like none of us, none of us want to get bit by dog, and uh, you know, half of what we do is behavior modification. None of us really want to get bit, and you know, we have systems in place to try to prevent that. Um, but we've all been bit. Everybody at this table's been bit multiple times. That's part of the job. Got my favorite shirt torn. Yeah. And so you kind of just get uh you get, I'm not gonna say desensitized to it, but you know, you understand it's a part of the job. You don't like it, it happens, and and so there's always a little healthy fear, right, of getting bit or attacked by a dog or whatever. Um But this this dog was, you know, there were many there were many times where I was just alone with this dog, this this dog with raw power. Uh, and and I was bit by this dog um in in our training progression, and it was it was the worst, most damaging dog bite I've ever had. Um it bled for like 48 hours, couldn't get it to stop bleeding. It was it was excruciatingly painful.

SPEAKER_00

Well, I will say, right before you got bit, I think I told you something.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, yeah. You did well, there was some ego stuff, like you know, you gotta check the ego for sure.

SPEAKER_00

Like I said, let me help you, and used to I got it.

SPEAKER_04

I got it. Right. Yeah. You know, I had some ego. I won't I won't uh deny that, you know. So, you know, when we talk about systems in place, that would be where those systems come from. You know, uh, you know, when you know, don't be afraid to have somebody help you out. Right. Right. Um but just uh I mean just a powerful dog that could really if if if he really wanted to to do damage, he could. Uh and he knew that, right? Uh and there's potentially lethal damage? Yes, yeah, yeah. Like, I mean if this if this dog got your got your neck or some type of artery or something just from the sheer bite pressure alone, um I think this this dog could kill a person, 100%. And and I think I knew that, I think he knew that. Um and that's that's that brings a whole nother level of fear, you know. So when I say I truly feared this dog, uh we still push forward and we still we still got it, we still got the training done. Um but there were definite times of I don't know how this is gonna go. There were definitely times at night it's dark outside, I was alone with this dog. There were times I had to I had to utilize a catch pole with this dog. Um and there were times where he he had the advantage, even even with the catch pole. Um I remember him, I remember I had him on the catch pole and I had my my feet grounded on the ground and he literally came at me and pushed me back like I was sliding on the ground.

SPEAKER_00

You had him on the catch pole, he's in the catch pole.

SPEAKER_04

He's in the catch pole, so he can't get to me unless I let go of that catch pole. Um but just his sheer force and power pushed me back as I was stationary without my legs moving. Right. And so my legs were still still stationary. Um so yeah, talking about a very powerful dog. Um and so there's no like obviously with dogs, you can there's there's a lot of things you can do with the leash to to help mitigate a dog getting you, but this is the type of dog that if if if he wants you, he's got your number. You know what I mean? And so that brings a whole nother level to it. Um this dog had been blacklisted from from other dog care facilities just for similar issues. Just just dominant. Um he started to develop issues with reactivity, issues in the in the home. Nothing crazy, nothing, nothing super, super wild in the home, but just things like we'll kind of like bully people um when they would come visit over. A good example when I went to go pick him up, he ripped my bait bag off of my off of my belt. He didn't just straight up come and attack me, right? So like he's he's he's also a confident dog. Um so he's not like just all the time aggression. He came, he's he found my bait bag in like 0.5 seconds and said, I want that. He chomped down on it. It's on my if you don't know what a bait bag is, that's where we keep our treats. It goes on our belt, he chomps down on it, and when I went to go take it from him, he grabs he grabbed my shirt. And so I had to go back to my shirt, he went back to my bait bags. Right. Um, and so yeah, like he just he just wanted what he wanted.

SPEAKER_00

It's not uncommon for us when we go to pick up a dog for the dog to find our bait bag and muzzle it or nibble at it, but this stuff. Yeah, this dog just straight up grabbed it.

SPEAKER_04

And was he was like, This is mine now. You know what I mean? He can do what he wants. Yeah, yeah. And you know, and I saw that right off the rip. I saw, you know, all right, we got a confident guy here, right? But but we've had many dogs with with dominance and that kind of stuff come through. Um so did he have a bite history? No bite history other that we know of. Other than the blacklisting from from the Oh, he did bite the other dog facilities that he was at. He did bite there.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, gotcha.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, so but other than that, um nothing. Nothing. Like he would not, like again, the problems of people coming over were just him bulldozing, kind of getting up in your space. I don't I would assume if you have some treats, he's taking it, right? Yeah, yeah. So um, you know, talking about the failure point, you know, when I was really thinking about it, I mean there were there were a lot of things that we could we could deep dive into, and I've talked a lot with this family and everything, and there was a lot of positive reinforcement only used, um, which by itself I would say didn't really call like I think this I saw videos of this dog as a puppy, and this dog was you know, locked and loaded, ready to go as as an eight-week old puppy, you know what I mean? Um, and so I'm not gonna sit here and say they over did oh they overdid it on the positive reinforcement, but that was a factor, like he always just got rewarded. There was there was no uh accountability or anything like that. No discipline. No discipline. So I think I would I would say in this case the biggest failure point would be structure or lack of structure, um, especially from early on. This dog's just living life, uh doing uh being allowed to do whatever it wants to do. Uh and when it wants to do something, it it gets its way, right? And and whether it's just using its sheer muscle to push through barricades or push past people or grabbing things, it's just g I want that, I'm gonna take that. Right. And he and he knows that he can do it, right? And he's using his using his uh size and power to to be able to do that.

SPEAKER_00

So thinking back on him, at least at this point in your story, if the owners had obviously there's a genetic uh makeup with the dominance and the confidence, but if they had applied some structure or a higher level of maybe they did like crate work or something, but if they had applied a higher level of structure when he was younger, do you think it would have hit this point to where it's at now to where Yeah, no, I don't think it's over the top essentially.

SPEAKER_04

Right, yeah, yeah. I think it just fed his dominance, right? Right. So I think if there was structure, just just basic levels of structure in the beginning, sure, yes. Like it's hard, it's hard to say. You can't say how these things are gonna guarantee how they're all gonna develop, but but no, I think that that would be that was the if I have had to look at everything big picture, the single biggest failure point was that because I think that that would have sort of had this dog in a better mindset of of being a follower versus a leader, exactly. Yeah, still dominant, definitely like you you you ain't taking the dominance out, right? Like he's gonna he's a dominant dog. Right. That's who he is genetically. Um but the structure put would have put him in a better mindset for sure. Right. Um so yeah, so so what we did, right? So like the training progression is obviously extremely important here. Engagement, right? Going to go into step two for uh doing building our engagement, building our focus, that's that's you've gotta have that. You've got to have that with this type of dog. You've got to have uh the relationship building stuff. They've got to be able to give you focus, right? And so like that's that stuff all has to happen. The obedience has to happen, your your accountability has to happen. But uh, I mean, this dog wasn't dumb either. He was extremely intelligent and he moved very quickly through the training progression. So even with the training and per progression in place, we would run into issues of I don't want to do that. I understand that I understand that I'm supposed I understand my expectation, right? Uh I understand I'm I may get accountability for not doing the expectation. Don't care. Let's what are you gonna do about it, right? So again, this is where that mindset is fostered, it has been fostered throughout his whole life of like, you know, let's I'm gonna challenge this, right? Um because because historically I can challenge things and I'll get away with it, and people either back off, let me do my thing, or we're gonna duke it out and I'm gonna win that, right? Uh and so that became the uh that became the thing. It wasn't really like it wasn't the training progression that solved the problem. He did very well with the training progression. Now what I will say is that the the part of the training progression, the engagement specifically, gave us a bond. And so there were a lot of times where I think he made the right decision or at least compromised. It felt like he was compromising uh even when he did bite me. Like I I know I know for a fact it could have been way worse. Oh yeah. Uh it could have been way, it could have been could have ripped my arm off, you know what I mean? Right. Um and he he he was just communicating, I'm not gonna do this thing. Right. And the thing we were doing was going going in the crate, that was one of the bigger issues. He was he doesn't he didn't want to go in the crate or didn't want to do certain things, like hey, don't no, I don't want to walk. I'm I'm just gonna just gonna sit down. You gotta you're gonna move me if you want me to go anywhere, right? Um but the crate was a was a big issue, and so that became struct like when you're talking about structure, um, crate is kind of mandatory, um, especially with the way our current setup. There are other ways, like yeah, if you've got like a a run or something like that, but even then at that point, you've got to get that dog into the run at some point, you've got to get that dog out of the run at some point. So you do have to manage that dog's time. That's huge. So if we're if we're gonna if we're gonna manipulate food drives, we're gonna manipulate social drives, you've got to have a crate. That's a huge piece of it. Uh, and now some will say, well, there's there's there's other there's other ways of teaching the crate, right? And there were, and we did, we did everything. So I did positive reinforcement, throw the food in the crate, he'd go in, and I mean he would get that crate or that get that treat so fast, and he'd be boom, he'd be spinning out, right? And that's fine, no biggie. We can do that. We can we can do those reps, and we put in the time, and I mean hours. I was spent hours. I'd walk this dog, get him tired, play some food games, bring him back out, and then we go back to do it with no treats, main happened, right? So he kind of played the game, and then after a while, he's like, This is crate games, got it. Like the end goal here is to get me in that crate, and I don't want to go in that crate, right? And so at the end of the day, it had to become a thing of like, this dog has got to go in this crate, this dog needs to be safe, we need to be safe. And so we did develop a system where it was a two-man job where we fed basically a leash through the back of the crate. It would, it would, uh I would hook that hook that dog up on the leash because he was fine with that, and essentially I could then put leash pressure on that dog, and if he if he went to turn at me, which he did several times, the person on the back end would essentially pull him through, right? And through through a number of repetitions of that, he realized, yeah, I'm going in the crate. And we did get to a point where I could put him in the crate um a majority of the time. Uh, and we're we're talking about like his training program was about four weeks, right? Uh so I do know like if I had more time, uh, that would have been even more successful for sure. So the structure was a huge thing. Um being able to to to manage his time throughout that progression while we were working on all of the other things, like the dog reactivity or or reactivity towards people or whatever, all that kind of stuff, we we had to have a way to manage him, and so that was the biggest challenge for this dog, but we got it done nonetheless.

SPEAKER_00

Even though the crate was his main issue when you got through the training progression, when you started going on walks or whatever, was the reactivity essentially zero, or was it still there, or was he responsive to the corrections? Yeah, so there were I mean activity.

SPEAKER_04

So, yeah, yeah, like it it it would depend. Like, so this was a dog that could also eat corrections, right? So, like it would just depend. You had to you had to again, this is I would I would still loop this a little bit in in your structure because you're doing like when you're talking about distraction with with dogs, let's take that for example, like threshold work was a huge piece of the equation here, right? We couldn't just go right up into the mix because yeah, you can walk him through the progression, uh, and he understood what his expectations were, he understood accountability, but this dog just physically like number one, you're not gonna physically correct this dog, just not gonna I don't care, like I don't care who you are. This dog can eat the corrections, especially in high high arousal. Uh so we're not like a little leash pop or whatever, it's just not gonna do anything. Um, even with conditioning to the e-collar, proper conditioning to the e-collar, uh, we had the highest output e-collar, and he could eat that if he wanted to, up to maxing that thing out, right? And so uh and and and like we're not talking about even sending like the you know, where where you correct him and he gets gets more aggressive. He just literally will just sit there. Like you you can sit there, put it at, you know, max that thing out all the way up, and it's like doesn't he's unfazed by it, right? Uh and so it became a relationship thing. So like what I started to find, the more I did this, I worked my thresholds. I would I would start to work him at at a greater threshold, so I would keep him out of these high states of arousal and then build up my engagement, right? So now I now we're talking about my my training progression and I'm moving closer and closer. And so what I did find over time is that it wasn't really about the level of the correction, it was about who the correction was coming from, right? And so as I would give the correction, he would respect that correction and come and return back to me. And the levels didn't really matter that much, or the the the amount of uh uh force that you're using on a correction didn't matter so much. It just it was just a relationship thing, and that typically what is what it ends up being with these dominant dogs, is like you have to form a relationship with them of trust and respect. Like you are going no matter what, you are going to do the things that I'm asking you to do, right? The things I'm gonna ask you to do are gonna be very fair across the board, but you gotta do them, right? Uh and you have to like with a dog like this, that becomes that can become challenging because again, I had to use I had to use our team to be able to accomplish that mission because it was just unsafe for uh for me to do by myself, right? Right. Um but yes, it did get to the point where he responded appropriately to the corrections, but it was not because uh it was because he chose to, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah. Holy shit. So what I'm hearing you say is at the end of the day, the most important thing is engagement and relationship building. Yeah. The most important thing.

SPEAKER_04

For sure. And it and you and that takes time. That's like that with s with these types of dogs, especially we're talking about a dominant dog that's several years old, is you may not get engagement day one. You pre you probably won't, right? Or or even if you do, it's a it's not it's a it's a level of engagement that they're like, I'm having I'm getting food. Right. I'm I'm enjoying this game when it suits me. Right. Right. But things can things can definitely change. And so you have to figure out, well, what do I do with this dog while I am building this relationship? Because if you just if you're trying to do this at home as for an example, and I'm trying to do my engagement games, but then for 10 hours of the day, this dog is just again going back to doing whatever it wants, whenever it wants, bullying people, grabbing things off the counter, stealing trainers' bait bags off the belt, right? It doesn't really address this issue because this dog always knows. I at the end of the day, I have my 150 pounds that I can just sling around and nobody can do nothing about.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. And if you're listening to this at home and you're thinking, well, my dog won't go in the crate either. You know, your dog is not this dog, most likely. This is this is like point. This is like point, this is like the one in a million dog that uh is gonna is gonna fight you to the death.

SPEAKER_04

And we're not talking just like, hey, I'm just gonna plop my 150 pounds down and make you drag me. He's like, no, no, go ahead and and put any slight leash pressure on that thing and try to put me in there. Right. And it's gonna be a fight. Like we're we're I'm coming at you with everything I got. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01

For so long he learned that it worked.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Crazy story, crazy dog.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, but if by the end, owners could say, poof, kennel up, boom, he's he's going right in there. Right together.

SPEAKER_00

So and that is the cool thing about an owner that has a pre-existing relationship. When you take their pre-existing relationship, take the work that you did, combine it together, get them on the structure, it's different. Yeah, you know what I'm saying? It's different. Yeah. But uh if you're listening to this at home and you're and you're having a question, or you feel like this might be similar to your dog, you can always drop us a comment on YouTube, and uh we do read those comments, we'll try to respond to them. But in the meantime, Danny, you got a story about a dog that you trained.

SPEAKER_01

I do.

SPEAKER_00

Tell us about your dog that you trained.

SPEAKER_01

So the dog that I'm gonna be talking about, uh, roughly, I know Chris didn't talk about any breeds or anything like that, but the dog that I'm talking about, roughly 90 pounds of German Shepherd, uh responsible for multiple ER visits, and the uh trainer who had worked with him before us had uh told the family that the most responsible move was euthanasia. That was their best case scenario, right? Either that or triouts, right? So they come to us next, right?

SPEAKER_00

Oh, so I was gonna ask, like, why did the family not choose euthanasia? But the trainer said you either have to talk to Canine Revolution or you put the dog down. That's what they told me.

SPEAKER_01

So I was for very fresh into training dogs. It's probably like my fifth or sixth dog I ever trained. So I was a fresh apprentice under lead trainer Chris's guidance here. You brought him Skittles when we uh I didn't had to bribe him to come with me. But upon pickup, we had uh she shoved a kennel into the back of my truck, which uh left some pre-existing scratches, right? But shoved the kennel in there, and we didn't even touch the dog upon pickup. We had the owner take the dog outside. The dog was was freaking out, lunge and barking at us, just standing inside the house. We had already told the owner, put a leech on this dog, don't not let this dog come up to us because it had it caused major damage in the past. We had heard some stories that the trainer had passed along and things like that, right? So the dogs are reactive when you show up reactive to the dog, yeah, primary.

SPEAKER_04

I mean full-on ready to go. Like if they would have let go of the leash, we'd be we'd have been in trouble.

SPEAKER_01

100% and uh obviously not as powerful as the dog is what Chris is talking about, but could definitely cause some major damage. So we have the um owner take the dog out to my truck, put him in, left the leash on, so it made it very easy for us upon uh return to our facility here. Um so when we take him out, I'm very much in control, very much aware, but uh odd enough, we take him out and he has no interest in us, just and investing in the environment, sniffing around, not a big deal, right?

SPEAKER_00

When you guys uh put him in your in the crate in your truck, leaving the leash on him, what would you would have what would you have done if he would have chewed through that leash?

SPEAKER_01

Uh well safest option is probably a catchpull. Honestly, I mean it's again, it's if it was a smaller dog, I'd be reaching in there and grabbing him, but this is not a small dog. This is a dog that could cause major damage if it wanted to, for sure. So safest option for us as handling as handlers would would have probably been catch a pull, probably would have been our best bet. Uh especially for the dog that we don't know very well and we just know what what type of damage it's capable of and what has done with the previous trainer. I know like some stories like with the previous trainer was that they couldn't even get a dog out of out of the kennel at one point. I think at one point they just told the owners to come pick up the dog or something like that. So struggles for sure with just simple things like getting the dog out of the kennel. Just dog didn't want to be interacted with, right?

SPEAKER_00

Did you know that he wouldn't chew the leash or is there a way that you can tell?

SPEAKER_01

We didn't necessarily know. It wasn't he wasn't a very anxious dog. So yeah, I don't think uh I think I think um I think we would have been able to tell, but it wasn't that type of dog where he was anxious about things. He was just very uh like yeah, he was lunging and barking to us in the house. Once you got into my truck, he would lay down, he was calm, he was fine. So it wasn't really a concern at that time. He was f yeah, he didn't bark or anything. I mean yeah, he the whole drive.

SPEAKER_04

And I I think statistically, in my experience, that has been the case. It's like most even these dogs that are willing to go go dance with you there with that owner, uh you ha you do have to think from the dog's perspective. They're they're being put into this car. They're like, What the hell is going on? So they're kind of in a in a stressed state of just suppressed. Yep, they're suppressed a little bit. Yeah. So s it statistically that's how it works for me. Yeah. Uh that I've never had one chew through the leash uh in my car.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. No. So Wasn't a concern. Didn't happen. We got him here. He was relatively fine. Um the last trainer wouldn't say was inexperienced, but um was more of a pressure-based trainer, so skipped so s kind of skipped engagement and kinda went towards more compulsion-based correction style training. Uh, you know, forcing the dog to do things and things like that. And uh the dog when uh when that pressure was, you know, applied to him, he had one tool in his in his uh toolbox that worked, and that was bite. And it's like, hey, when I bite this trainer, this pressure stops. You know what I mean? Now some trainers might have fought through that and eventually gotten this dog to comply, maybe, but this trainer specifically wasn't in it.

SPEAKER_00

So the dog had a bite history, a known bite history, I think.

SPEAKER_01

Known by history had bit multiple family members, I believe.

SPEAKER_00

Not just the trainer.

SPEAKER_01

Not just the trainer. No, I'm not sure if it actually bit the trainer, but it definitely gave them some major problems. Okay. Um, but again, that's because they skipped our our first steps of our progression, which is engaging. Well, they're not canon revolution. They're not clear enough. But that I will say, like the like again, I was an apprentice, so like a lot of my uh you know, guidance was from Chris, but a lot of our our the first two weeks was really just prioritizing engagement. I hand fed every single meal, like every like morning and night, every single meal, just to build that relationship and build that trust, right? Um, and that's what we felt uh was the best first step and it shown to to be very beneficial. Um so uh we started with engagement for roughly two weeks or so. Didn't really introduce a ton of corrections. I will say, like when I did, when we did start to introduce accountability, it was like we were ready for some sort of uh, you know, some conflicts because we had known that that had been a problem before with the previous trainer and getting the dog to do things, the dog not wanting to do so. And just like any any uncomfortable situation the dog was put in with the trainer and with family members, the dog was even showing things just like growling, snarling at at like the owners and stuff like that. So whenever the dog was put into any kind of adverse, uncomfortable situation, it had a history of fighting, of biting, right? So that's kind of what we were ready for when we did introduce accountability, but again, that came way, way deep into the progression. It was a lot of engagement, a lot of hand feeding until we introduced any of that.

SPEAKER_00

How long was the dog in uh in its per in with uh with us for? Uh only four weeks. Four weeks, could have been two weeks. Could have been longer engagement.

SPEAKER_01

Half of the training was a lot of engagement. And the last two weeks we banged out a lot of obedience and stuff and socialization, of course. Right. Um, so yeah, step two of our progression engagement, the biggest uh thing that we needed with a dog like this, a lot of the a lot of our other steps didn't really matter until we felt that was in place, until we felt we had the dog's trust and focus and and felt that it was willing to interact with us, you know. But by the time that we introduce any like full-on obedience or corrections, the dog was happy to see us, it was wanting to interact with us, which was a telltale sign that we're moving in the right direction. Right. Um so once we move on to uh you know, once we move past engagement, we have to still, of course, you know, introduce some sort of uh leash pressure, some sort of accountability. Um but we start with leash pressure, start with opposition reflex. So again, going back to what I said earlier, he had learned that if he's put under any uncomfortable pressure or uncomfortable situation, he learned that uh, you know, he could get out of it by showing this behavior of fighting. And this dog wasn't necessarily a dominant dog, he didn't really want to take control of a situation like how Chris's dog was, Chris's story rather was uh was talking about. Um he was more so like an un more insecure than than dominant, more so like, hey, I'm uncomfortable, but this works. Biting works. I'm a big dog, I'm a powerful dog, I I can cause damage. And he also had learned in the past, like when I do this, it works. These this thing gets away from me, this uncomfortable situation stops. So that was his most reliable tool, right?

SPEAKER_04

It does come at a point with insecure dogs that as they age and they get into these scraps and it becomes successful for them. That's where, like, because a lot of say, Yeah, hey, if they're just coming from insecurity, there it's a fear bite, it's not that big of a deal. It's like it does when you start talking about these big dogs that that do this enough, they get it's not that they're confident, but they're confident in the air.

SPEAKER_01

They're comfortable, they've learned it works X amount of times, right? Um, so yeah, so like our our uh process of reintroducing leash pressure and and desensitizing opposition reflex is just very uh you know, steady pressure, not introducing a lot like hard corrections or jerks or pops of the leash very fast. It's slow pressure. Teach showing the dog what we want it to do instead of putting it into an adverse situation and giving it the you know, letting it make its own decision. So we uh teach the dog that uh moving with the leash is what uh you know we want it to do. I think we probably we we I don't remember exactly, but we I think we believe I believe we uh introduced that during hand feeding. So like hey, in order to unlock your food, move with the leash. It was a lot of it was a much more positive experience than what I would imagine he had gone through with the previous trainer. Uh you know, right? So um so yeah, that's that's uh step three, leash pressure, desensitized options.

SPEAKER_00

When you guys finished the training here and you reintegrated with the owner, was there a challenge because of the history that the dog had at its house? You know, context does play a lot into dog behavior. You know, you got the dog good to go, you know, you you did distraction training, you did socialization, you did engagement, dogs responding to you well. But you're taking that dog home now. Was there any challenges when you took it home, or is it a pretty smooth transition?

SPEAKER_01

No, no major challenges. Uh, we prioritize like a lot of engagement with the with the owner, like showing them that this is this is what works with this dog and this is what is going to help you build this dog's uh you know, gain this dog's trust rather in different environments in in and in uncomfortable situations, because again, this dog has learned that on when in uncomfortable situations it can show this behavior and get that situation to stop. So instead of that, we taught the owner like, hey, whenever he's uncomfortable, and just in general, practicing eye contact, practicing engagement with him is going to help build that uh his his trust upon them to to look to their guidance and follow their guidance and trust their guidance in these uncomfortable situations instead of him having to defend himself, right? So no major challenges. I mean, I I did falls with them at like public parks around kids and people, and like obviously we are very, very aware of our surroundings. It's not the type of dog that you want people running up to, obviously, right?

SPEAKER_04

And that even that was a two-person thing, right? Like we talked about using our team, like that was a thing when we did that. We did that together. You were handling camber and I was body blocking, right? Like I didn't have a dog with it. Before we went home, right? I was walking around making sure people were.

SPEAKER_01

Before we went home, we walked in in hindsight, probably not a risk we needed to take, but we did walk this dog through a farmer's market. Uh it was good. And it was fine, he was fine. He trusted my leadership, trusted my guidance, didn't deviate quite uh really didn't deviate at all, and just fully was he had one job to do, one clear thing, one expectation to follow, and that really alleviated a lot of things.

SPEAKER_04

Oh, I'm 100% he would have been good without me body blocking, but it was this was one of those things like you don't take risks with that.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and then in follow-ups, same thing. Now, like in follow-ups, I did first couple with you. I think by the end of it, I was I did one by them by myself, and that was when we like did it in public, and I'm I'm with them. It's a you know a couple, and I'm just hey, like, main thing is not letting people run up to this dog. You know, I mean he's not the type of dog to lunge and bark and and freak out and bite somebody out of nowhere, but if he's put into an uncomfortable situation, probably not probably not a safe a certain thing.

SPEAKER_00

So you're saying even after all the training you did, there's still an element of that dog.

SPEAKER_01

There's still a risk, there's limitations for a dog like this. You know what I mean? And these this uh situation in particular, the family did want to have kids at some point, and uh we had very realistic conversations with them and be like, hey, he he is very manageable, he very much trusts your guidance, he's very much understanding what's expected of him, but he's never gonna be the type of dog that anyone should feel comfortable with with a taller walking around or or crawling around around this dog.

SPEAKER_00

What was the recommendation with the kid? What'd you else tell him?

SPEAKER_01

Either, well, pretty much zero contact, either. Like if this kid's out having you know free roam privileges as a kid, doing what kids do, he's in the kennel. Like it's there's no point in risking it. We did a lot a lot of muzzle training as well, but regardless, it's it even with a muzzle, this dog could cause damage. You know what I mean? To a to a child for sure. Right. So definitely the type of dog that you know he's trained, he definitely understands what's expected of him, definitely an improvement in in his peace of mind and in the owner's peace of mind, but had limitations when it comes to when it comes to strangers or her kids and things like that.

SPEAKER_04

Well, sometimes people don't understand, it's not it's not all like they I think we put too much on the dogs, too, right? Like it's like okay, when when these kids get two, three years old, and I can uh have a three-year-old right now. You know what I mean? Like they do things. You they do things. You tell them to do something, they they got some dominance. You know what I'm saying? They gotta do what they want to do. But I mean, it's you turn your back for five seconds and they're they're digging in the dog's ear or mouth or something, and it's like it's just not worth the risk with a dog that has the capability to do major damage to a to a grown adult. Right.

SPEAKER_01

Uh it's also not fair to put that dog into that situation. Right. You know what I mean? Espe especially if you, like you're saying, turn your back for one second and the kid's on top of that dog. You know what I mean? Like it's like, yeah, it's it's it's it falls under the owner. They have a responsibility to not only manage their kid, but also uh uh acknowledge the type of dog that they have. You know, I mean I've had I've had a ton of conversations with owners like this, be like, hey, yes, like I understand this is your goal, and but this is the process to get there. People are very goal oriented. But it's like you have to acknowledge the type of dog you have, and you have to acknowledge the steps needed to be taken until you're at that goal, until you're at that point. It's not gonna be it's not gonna be a quick process for a lot of these types of dogs.

SPEAKER_00

What do you do if uh you're working with somebody and they maybe have an unrealistic goal with their dog?

SPEAKER_01

I have a realistic conversation with them. I mean it's a good idea.

SPEAKER_00

What is your process of depends on the situation, but yeah, what is your process of explaining to them the potential limitations of their dog? Or their real like the realistic uh real realism of their of their goal.

SPEAKER_01

Are you asking me?

SPEAKER_00

Anybody?

SPEAKER_01

I mean, for me it's it's it's like I said, just being realistic with them and being like, hey, like I understand, you know, this is your goal. And like I said before, there's steps to be taken with this specific dog to get to that goal, but it's very much showing them you know what's important and what's not important too. So you know what I mean? It's like, hey, like I understand you want your dog to be the most friendly dog that everyone come up to, but he's uncomfortable. He first needs to learn that he can trust you with these unfamiliar people around. You can't just put him into the situations and expect him to make the right decision because he's probably not. He's probably and this isn't this specific dog in general, I'm just talking about uh, you know, specific dogs or um you know random dogs, right? Random situations. But there's dogs that that will not necessarily have these types of limitations, but will not respond well to being put into those uncomfortable situations, and they first need to go through a progression of engagement, of relationship building, of trust building until you are able to lead these dogs in this situation, and throughout that process you will build confidence, and your dog very well might be that dog that people can pet and people can and he can be fine with that. But there's steps, there's a lot of steps to get there. So that's typically how I'll explain it to someone. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

I think some I think a lot of it's education, right? So like sometimes you sometimes people want their dogs to be something that their dogs just aren't. And it's our like I there's a lot of trainers that like will stroke the owners' ego, right? Well, like, oh yeah, well, we gotta just keep doing more work or keep doing this. Like, I think I think we have a responsibility to also be very realistic. Should like let's just take the kid thing for example. Could we get that dog good to go with a kid? Possibly, possibly, right? But you also have to weigh the risks, right? Is there a potential that this kid is going to get killed? I mean, look at why look at the news any given day, right? Like kids get killed by dogs, it happens, right? So is it is it worth the risk? We have to be realistic, and so in part of that education, a lot of times I will educate dogs on body or uh owners on dogs' body language, things like that, and I can literally point it out live. Look at this body language, this is what your dog is experiencing right now, this is what they're feeling. Why would we want to put them in this situation? And then I will often use some type of uh example, like a real world example, something like, hey, you're you're it's like we don't we don't we don't go to the gym for four days and expect to have a six-pack, right? Like we have to have realistic expectations. And so sometimes using some real world examples makes them kind of take a step back and go, that kind of makes sense, right? Like these things do take time, just like anything else in life.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, for sure. Yeah, body language is huge, you know. I mean, and especially when I feel like a lot of times you point certain things like that out to people and you'd be like, hey, your dog is uncomfortable in this certain situation. To make him more comfortable or more confident, these are steps need to be taken. So you need to it is like a it's definitely education, um, but it's also giving them a game plan as to how to get there. You know what I mean? I think I think if you don't give them that, then you're kind of, you know, like if you if you are stroking their eagle, then it's it doesn't get them anywhere. You know what I mean? Because then you're being unrealistic to them.

SPEAKER_04

You know, putting them in danger or somebody else in danger.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and it's unfair to the dog. Yeah, you know what I mean.

SPEAKER_00

If you give them a game plan and they're not compliant, they don't follow the plan, you won't get the results. That's what I mean. Potentially get the results.

SPEAKER_01

We we teach them, it's up to them to do the work. It's up to them to put the reps in.

SPEAKER_00

Right. JC, what do you got for us? You got a story today? I got a story. All right, tell us your story.

SPEAKER_05

This dog, she was rescued before the owners rescued. She was scheduled for euthanasia. It was kennel stressed. She was reactive to people, dogs would redirect on the owners. Um she bit the owner a couple times.

SPEAKER_00

What's the give or take weight size of the dog?

SPEAKER_05

She was probably like 90, 100 pounds, something like that. She's a big girl. She's a big girl, right? So I'm only 100 pounds. So, you know, this is this is a fun, fun dog to work with. Um But yeah, no, she was she was a good dog overall, but she just she didn't know really what was expected of her. She had practice of doing these behaviors, they tried multiple different trainers, um, and they just really didn't have much success. They first started, you know, with a purely positive, which you can use that to teach behaviors all day, but they were rewarding this dog in a red zone. So now this dog is learning, oh, this behavior feels good. It gets the thing that makes me uncomfortable away, and I'm being rewarded for it at the same time.

SPEAKER_00

Do you know how old the dog was when you trained it?

SPEAKER_05

When I trained her, she was probably like four or five.

SPEAKER_00

So they had- You know how old it was when they started but they rescued her about like three.

SPEAKER_05

So they had her for about a year or so before this went on.

SPEAKER_00

Um they had done all this training in the one year with the other trainers.

SPEAKER_05

They spent thousands. We were their last resort, essentially. They spent thousands on her. They were considering euthanasia again, and they were like, we want to give her one more try because they don't want to the situation they rescued her from, according to the shelter anyway, was not a good situation.

SPEAKER_01

Were these people were they out of state? Yes, they were.

SPEAKER_05

So they they drove out of state, dropped her off. Um we did a six-week program with her. So I was able to spend more time on like the really foundational skills that she needed that she just didn't understand.

SPEAKER_00

I actually So when they dropped her off to you, what did you what what what was initially happening? Because you know, Danny said he's got this dog in the crate. Chris said the situation with the crate, what was happening with you and this dog when they when you're first getting hands-on with this dog, as you know, did you go pick up the dog that you told the story about? You went to their house and picked it up?

SPEAKER_03

Yep, yep.

SPEAKER_00

That's which is what we normally do for people that are close to us, but you had someone drop off a dog to you at our 20-acre training campus here in Dorchester, right outside of Charleston. So the drop off, the owner is there. Yes. So, what was kind of that experience?

SPEAKER_05

Yep. So I actually I made Chris hang out because I knew this dog was big. I didn't know how she was gonna react. Um, she was barking at me a little bit in the car, so I had the owner put on the fur saver. I taught the owner how to do it, put a fursaver, put a leather leash on her. Basically, I stepped away, let the owner do that, so the dog kind of didn't really see me or try to lunge. She had a habit of just lunging out and trying to go after people. I didn't want to do that with a dog with no leash or anything on because you can't really defend yourself or protect yourself if you got a dog coming at you and you can't keep them away.

SPEAKER_03

Right.

SPEAKER_05

So owner puts the furs ever on, puts the leash on, then she shuts the door, leaves the leash handle hanging outside the car. Basically, what I did was I had enough leash to kind of get it in grip, and I told her, hey, you're just gonna open the door and I'm just gonna start walking with her. So she came out, she was completely fine. She was actually more interested in the chickens. So now she's kind of looking around, and me and the owner had probably about a 20-minute conversation or so before I pulled her out. So I got all the details and stuff. We had the conversation, the realistic expectation that there's gonna be work to do, especially with them being out of state. Like out of state, we have to have a game plan, and you have to put the work in because I can't meet up with you for in-person follow-ups when you're you know 12 hours away from me, right? So take the dog, start walking her, you know, down a little bit towards the end of the driveway. And now, if I remember correctly, coming back, she did try to go for a chicken, and I just basically break, right? Like she's my size, I'm my size, so we're just we're legs of our same weight, I'm just legs in the ground holding her. Right. She surprisingly though didn't redirect. I was anticipating that. Now, how did she redirect? I would have just had to, you know, hold her away from me, try to keep her moving. I was keeping distance and things like that.

SPEAKER_00

So that was going through your head, it's a potential this dog could get frustrated, turn around and try to bite me.

SPEAKER_05

Yes, because she had she had redirected on the owner a couple times. She did give her a good scar on the leg and then one on the arm as well. Um, so I was definitely aware of that, paying attention, you know, monitoring body language and distance and things like that. Of course, the chickens don't help because they see dogs and they associate them with food, so they're coming right up to us, right? So get her through potty loops, stuff like that. Dogs got food. Um but yeah, got her in. She gave me actually zero issues going in the kennel. She was super good about it. They did a lot of crate work with her because at home they she couldn't be left out. So she spent a majority of her time in the kennel anyway, because they had other dogs.

SPEAKER_00

Where were the issues? What issues were you having?

SPEAKER_05

With I mean, really, she actually her drop-off was great.

SPEAKER_00

She other- You're talking about as as like she your drop-off weren't good, you got her in the crate, you're not about to die like Chris, you're not getting bit like Danny. I think it's you know, the potential for that. So uh what kind of issues were you seeing show up as you started actually training over the next couple of weeks?

SPEAKER_05

I mean, over the n a lot of it was anxiety. She was very anxious, and like you could see now she was confident in practicing these behaviors. Like you'd she'd see a chicken or she'd see another dog and that tailed right up. She, you know, ready to lunge. We had a couple dogs that if they even walked by close to her crate, just freaking out and going at the door. So we did have to use a little bit of a um barrier as dogs would walk by just as she wasn't practicing, right? There was a lot of management there in the beginning. Um, but I had the upper hand of her being so food motivated that she the second I started doing engagement with her, which was the first thing that I did, she took to it right away. So like I did have to do some space and stuff like that. So I'd bring her out, you know, if she was in the potty loop, um or if I'm excuse me, if I'm in the potty loop with her, I'm, you know, on the other side of if we have assistance or other people out there. I'm not letting her be in that close range. Um so a lot of management definitely under the dogs and stuff like that, because if she saw their dogs, she was ready to go. Um and then us obviously having 20 acres was helpful. I was able to, you know, get her away from everything to just teach her, hey, you know, focus on me, right? Fun things happen here. Using that would then in turn help me get her working around the other dogs around uh the property and working around uh addressing the chickens and stuff like that. She had a high eye prey drive, so that played a partners.

SPEAKER_00

Well, since she's been through other training before, I don't know if any other trainers used e-collars, but when you got to e-collar conditioning, was that smooth? Was there uh some kind of history there with that?

SPEAKER_05

There was some hiccups, so that was part of the issues. Um they, as I mentioned, they did do other training with her. So after the purely positive, they went to more of a compulsion style trainer. And basically, the second she saw a dog and even looked at it, it was an e-collar and prong correction at the same time. So it was very high level, and she didn't really know what to do or what was expected, and it almost caused more frustration. So when I started introducing the e-collar, there was a little bit of um hesitation, and I could see she kind of would like get uncomfortable. So we did a lot of just positive reinforcement with the e-collar, right? Lowest level STIM she could feel, which I don't remember what her baseline was, but she actually felt it very, very low. Um now it also probably didn't help the e-collar they were using was a very cheap, quality brand. So like I felt it when the owner was here, and the level five on that was like a level like 60 on one of our units. So she felt it very, very low. And I just basically taught her after I already had engagement, I already she already was uh taught the expectations. I taught her how to follow the leash because that was another key part to it. She'd feel that tension on that leash just even from her lunging herself, and it just made her more explosive. So I taught her basically the low levels, use my positive reinforcement, getting her, you know, we start with like a recall for our conditioning, right? So low level, come, she come to me, we go into the engagement, especially because she loved it. We I did so many reps of that, it very quickly turned that. Oh, this isn't, you know, a bad thing, I need to escalate. This is how and teaching her how to respond to it helped her settle. So after doing that, it took me, you know, a couple days of just doing that before even going into any application work with the remote caller. Um and she responded to it very well after that. And then we were able to use it in different environments, work some threshold getting.

SPEAKER_00

Now, since the owner was, you know, hours away, twelve hours or whatever away, tell me about the transition back home. Were you getting reports from them after you started working with them and they went back home? How did that kind of turn out?

SPEAKER_05

Yep. So they actually um they stayed overnight here. Um so they came, they did a return session here at our property. Um and they stayed in the woods right there.

SPEAKER_00

Really? Did they have a little camp up?

SPEAKER_05

No, they did stay down the street though. They stayed um, they stayed probably like 10 15 minutes down the road. But they came here, they um got a pet friendly Airbnb, so they didn't bring any of the other dogs or anything like that. It was just the mom and her daughter. Um we spent probably about an hour or two working out here. It was during one of our shifts, so I was able to get them practice because one of the things they had mentioned to me was when they did the other board and train with the other trainer in uh their state, they couldn't even still walk her down the street with another dog. Like if another dog was across the street, she'd lose her mind, start trying to, you know, react to the dog redirect on them. So what I had them do here was some engagement work. And then we had some assistants just walk back and forth on the driveway. And I had them, you know, in our training field. So they're walking parallel and I was able to get them to a pretty close distance. Now I kept safety and things like that in mind because as you mentioned earlier, context is a thing. Right. So like she had a lot of practice of doing this with the owners. So we just did reps here of you know walking back and forth with other dogs. She'd look at the dog, she'd look at them, they go into a reward event. We did a lot of yes with her just because of that prey drive was so crazy. She loved some uh yes engagement and then also taught them some down say stuff. Now after that return we spent about two hours here. They took her back to the Airbnb and they introduced structure right away. So structure was also a key component so she wasn't reacting at other dogs in that neighborhood or anything like that. And then um we actually ended up they met me the next day in downtown Somerville. Now this was poor planning on my part. I wanted to start them at a lower level distraction. There was an event going on in that Somerville and I didn't know. I wasn't paying attention so yeah it was Texan and was like hey guys so that area's closed meet me over here we're gonna work her through it she did great though she was definitely anxious and nervous at first right there was a lot of you know focusing on other things but we hung out to the side did some engagement work and then as we walked around the outskirts we ended up walking her there was another event and then the farmer's market and we ended up taking her through the farmers market and she did great. She had a little you know perk up but they very easy low level no she immediately focused back on them and did great the rest of the time we were there. So after training they took her back to their state and then I think it was probably like two or three weeks later they texted me they were able to have a utility person come in the house and she hung out on her place the whole time. She looked at them looked at the owners and went back to sleep. Then they sent me another video of her at the vet's office awake not fully sedated that was a big issue they had anytime she had to go to the vet complete sedation and they were you know doing engagement with her she's focusing on them while the vet's touching her checking her out and now we did do a lot of muzzle work right there's safety in that um but she was doing great there and they've I haven't heard from them recently but as far as I know she's been doing great.

SPEAKER_00

So I can think of uh countless dogs that we've trained you know one team one standard we've trained countless dogs and at the end of the day it always comes back to the relationship the engagement at least that's my perspective.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah 100% I think that's I think I think corrections are so I think they're very easy for people to do. I think it's it's something that people assume they need and a lot of times a lot of dogs need a lot less corrections that they're getting and they need more engagement more focus just more motivation and that's definitely helped with not only countless dogs that I've trained but my personal dog and and you know so yeah it's definitely the most overlooked thing I think for a lot of uh you know trainers that are looking to get results fast or all owners that are get looking to get revol results fast like I said earlier people are so goal oriented and they and corrections all you know kind of make it can k depending on the dog can make it faster to get to that goal. Right.

SPEAKER_00

But it's not it's not as uh beneficial as taking the reps to take a step back practice more engagement practice more hand feeding whatever you need to do but definitely definitely but if you skip the you know how some trainers want to get it done fast right you skip the relationship and engagement you start correcting you know at the end of the day that's not really fixing the problem that's not really helping the dog you're gonna have more problems later right versus if you took the time and I've called owners that I'm working with their dog and I say hey I know like I'll send them videos throughout the week I'm like I know it seems like I'm doing the same thing and I am but this dog needs this you know this dog needs time spending time with me building a bond with me building a relationship with me and then and only then when the dog can't get enough of me is it time to then progress and work on obedience it can take a long time that's the issue and there's a lot of training because you have both sides of it people move very quick to the corrections but then you also have people that don't understand the timing in training itself so then you see the purely positive side and they're rewarding the dog for the behaviors that they're not trying or they're trying to correct because they don't understand where that timing is.

SPEAKER_05

And that ends up making your issues harder to undo.

SPEAKER_04

Well I think too a big uh frustration at least on on my part is like owners sometimes don't understand our timelines right like I get this a lot this trainer will do this in two weeks so they say and like we've just in in Danny's case we spent two weeks on the in just the engagement just the because it's that important he he he I don't I don't know if you caught it but he says yeah the rest of the time we did some obedience right that start that part is easy. Like once you have this relationship it's not about like with with the dog I worked it wasn't about the physical force of your correction it was about the dogs getting corrected by you a a a handler a leader that they respect and they trust and they're making the conscious decision I'm getting corrected for a behavior I'm going to choose to stop doing this behavior and do this other beneficial behavior right and to get a dog to think like that takes time. There's no shortcuts. Right right and and the these two cases Danny's case and and my case were a little bit older right where these were these were both four week programs and we like these days we put that was before we had really changed our program to be six weeks. Because we're try like we we do try to accommodate the fact that it's like people are like that's a long time and I do get that I I truly understand that that it's hard to be away from your dog but like these days we with these types of cases like that's the six weeks uh is still not a lot of things.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah for certain dogs that's not yeah like we the way we do it is beneficial but in the grand scheme of things there really shouldn't even be a a time limit.

SPEAKER_05

Right in a perfect order it's like hey this is the minimum amount of time I need and I'm probably gonna extend a lot of what I we live in a real world.

SPEAKER_04

We also have to have realistic expectations right and so like what we have found is that six weeks is a pr is a really good balance for 90% of dogs.

SPEAKER_01

You know I mean you will have outliers you know I mean like I'm and I am I'm definitely very realistic with people too that like they because they'll ask me what their guarantee is like can you guarantee where my dog will be in six weeks I'll be I'll say I can guarantee that they will know X amount of expectations they'll understand I'd be communicated to and things like that but are they gonna never react to another dog again?

SPEAKER_05

Probably not you know what I mean like it's a lifelong thing you know what I mean the guarantee is also can you follow the things we give you you really because the behavior change is going to happen at home. We can get the dog to do anything we want with us because we build the relationship.

SPEAKER_04

If the owners don't keep that balance that dog will very quickly go back to how it was if you can't maintain the consistent moment because it comes back to that structure if we can't change the structure right because like a lot of times the the the the current structure that's been set up is is is a leading cause for some of these behaviors that have started. Right. And so if we go even with training right it's not like it's not like taking your taking your car to get its brakes fixed. Right. It doesn't come back fixed if it goes back into the same structure you're gonna get the same behaviors. Right. We say that all the time.

SPEAKER_00

You don't graduate from training with your dog you graduate to maintenance of training with your dog right I'll get your dog as far as I can do the training lifestyle this time right with that being said if you guys want to work with us you can go down to the link in the description below you can book a discovery call with us you can download our free six step training checklist where we take you through the steps we're talking about today progressing from your dog knows nothing or your dog needs rehabilitation to you're in the maintenance phase with your dog. You can also grab our book down the link in the description below it's available on Amazon and all of our other affiliates raw food uh supplements for your dog everything that's good for your dog down in the description below appreciate you guys being here and until next time this is Pac Talk Podcast out

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Chad Singer

Host